Compromises-

[IXNAYXJ]

I don't like to compromise. I want my cake and I want to eat it. Here's what I'm talking about:

My current wheeling rig ('94 XJ 2-dr) is worn out. Motor has 200k on it and one cylinder has no compression. Doors don't shut anymore (50k miles of HARD wheeling, including two flops), it leaks, smells like the burned hair of a soggy buffalo and doens't have a straight panel on it.

Easy solution is to but a new rig and swap everything over. Of course, this is a good oportunity to do some upgrades. I'll be switching to Claytons LA's, doing a full cage/exo halo, tube fenders, etc. Sounds great, right?

Here's the problem; I wheel with multiple passengers with relative frequency, and I sleep in the back of the Jeep. With the cage, I'm not sure how I'll make the rear seat viable, so I thought about putting in two bucket seats back there and modifying the floor pan. But that's a lot of work.

Also, I want to do a storage tray (Tuffy's is really nice) in the rear with a spare tire mount on top. Basically, I'm running out of room. How do I prioritize? Forget sleeping in the rig and buy a tent? Tell my friends to piss off and buy their own rig? Or figure out some really elegant and clever way of doing everything I want it to...any ideas?

Old and new:

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/Cimg3631.jpg

My Blue Heeler Abby overseeing out progress:

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/Cimg3641.jpg

Basic idea for the cage:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o146/M1XJ/Roll%20cage/jeepbeachfieldtrip012.jpg

Doesn't leave much room. I'm debating including the b-pillar x-brace...I dunno:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o146/M1XJ/Roll%20cage/Reiter003.jpg

-----Matt-----

[articulate]

Pony up for a Chaser, get new friends (ones with their own rigs), and bring a babe for the passenger seat. Call it done.

[ExpoMike]

Personally I think you need to prioritize the type of wheeling you want to do. :sport_box

Hearing how you have wheeled hard with a couple flops and looking at the cage design you want to do, I think your mindset is still in the hardcore arena. Not faulting the value of a good cage but in an ExPo type build, the setup you are showing is overkill. The cage without all the extra side to side cross bracing would protect much better then without (since few hardtop vehicles tend to do full cages) but you would still retain your much needed internal space.

I am faced with a smiliar situation as my wife and I want to do more ExPo travels and an XJ is on the small side compared to most of the rigs you see. It just takes more thinking on how to maximize your usable space. Though we don't typically carry more then the two of us, there are times we might be four up and having the back seat is nice. I am planning to build side storage areas that will be flush with the wheelwells inside, so I can keep the main floor area clear. I am going to put a rear tray across the back, behind the seat but about the same height as the top of it, for a two level load area. The spare tire and some of the recovery equipment will on on a rack I will build on the roof. Most likely I will add an air assist bags for the rear springs to help with the load.

In the end I am going to build a ExPo trailer with an RTT to haul a lot of the camp gear. With all my ideas in place, the XJ will be "able" to sleep one or two for a night or two, have my spares and recovery on board so I could leave camp without a trailer or on a day trip BUT any longer trips would have the trailer setup to work out of.

I do get envious of seeing all these big rigs with all the room and capacity but at the same time I get a kick out of picking through trails with more spare room and getting 20 MPG. :)

Before you really jump into your build, REALLY read over this site, think about exactly what you want to do and layout your plans with that goal in mind. It is really hard to have a hardcore rig that doubles as an ExPo rig. At least that's my opinion, espically with an XJ.

If I had my way, I want a Pinzgauer 6x6 with an ambulance box that I could build a full contained camp rigs. :drool: :jump:

OR you can just do what articulate proposed!!! :D

[IntrepidXJ]

easy solution. build 2 specific rigs....

one for expedition style travel and build your old one as a rock crawler.

that's what I did. there is no good way to have 1 rig that can handle both well enough for me...IMO

:sport_box

[John90XJ]

I know Matt too well and also know he's not going to go on any, at least near term, journey that doesn't involve some hardcore wheeling.

In the PNW we tend to look at keeping things low and inside in order to deal with center of gravity. This helps with tight trails and smacking into tree trunks. This generally rules out RTTs and spare tires on the roof rack.

That being the case, and knowing the setup Matt will be running for tires, axles, etc., I think a reverse storage area would work well. Create a floor above the spare tire and have it run all the way to the rear of the seats. If a second row seat is added, run around it with a platform. Seldom used items, like the spare tire, can ride under this platform. More frequently used items could be retrieved from hatches built into the floor and allowing access to the large space that is presently under the back seat. Using the cross braces of the cage for a dual purpose supporting this platform seems to make the most sense.

Pulling out a cooler or other gear carrying box and leaving it on the roof or under the rig when parked in camp would leave a large area for sleeping. For that matter, the seats could be folded forward and an extension could be unfolded from the front of the platform, something secured with a piano hinge.

It could easily be done in aluminum or steel square tubing and sheetmetal or plywood. Things like water supply and secondary batteries could be incorporated into the design and then plumbed to a readily available open area at the rear.

Ultimately it would be nice to make a driver out of it as well as a strong wheeling rig like the present one. I'm fairly happy with mine and it's setup in a similar fashion....nothing on the roof, all the weight inside and located low.

[IXNAYXJ]

Pony up for a ChaserWon't fit where I go, unfortunately.
get new friends (ones with their own rigs)But scaring unwitting passengers half to death is part of the fun of having a wheeling rig!
and bring a babe for the passenger seat. Call it done.Didn't you see the pics of Abby? :)

-----Matt-----

[IXNAYXJ]

But seriously...

XJ Mike:

If I only wanted to do one type of wheeling, this wouldn't be a challenge! I don't want to compromise, remember? :)

Good input though, and good luck with your build. As John pointed out, though, trailers and RTTs just aren't feasible for my main area of operation.

IntrepidXJ:

Believe me I've thought about it. My new rig is so nice to drive it'll be tough to chop up and make into a Highway nightmare. I have decided I'm going to run a Currie Anti-Rock sway bar on this one...my old rig leans like a drunken sailor. I actually use nautical terms when describing it.

BTW, we still need to work on getting some of your pics in the magazine like we talked about. let's get the ball rolling!

John:

Thanks for the ideas. I'm thinking about buildng a 3-seater.... Maybe mount a bucket seat on the starboard side behind the pass. seat and leave behind the driver for storage and a flat spot to lay out. That's why I posted this thread, though, is for ideas how to make a hardcore wheeling rig sustainable for a week alone.

Either way, it's going to be a really fun project. It goes in to Those Guys on the 2nd, and I expect it to be totally buttoned up by the end of January, so the clock is ticking.

-----Matt-----

[4Rescue]

So do you want to put the spare INSIDE the truck??? Like the factory like set-up? I'm confused.

A) I'd say tell your friends to at least get ONE other rig.

B) I'd say make a rear swing away carrier?

I'm kind of in the same boat about sleeping in the truck. I like it, but I can't help but think a tent wether roof top or not isn't just easier. For just me and my gear it's fine, but throw in the GF and it becomes really hard.

I can't wait to see your EXO. THat solves one of the biggest issues I see XJ's having. IE the lack of frame etc. Here's a link to what I think is the NICEST exo I've come across (although it's a bit of a mix of both internal and Exo really).

http://gitout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=195

[John90XJ]

I'm kind of in the same boat about sleeping in the truck.....throw in the GF and it becomes really hard.

Freudian slip? ;)

I can't sleep in my XJ....it took one time a few years ago to convince me that was a dumb idea. Matt is shorter and likely half my weight and he uses some kind of contortioning to do it.

In the end it seems easier to put up a tent and just be done with it. It's generally more comfortable and certainly easier to avoid things like your friends duct taping you in your rig or surrounding it with Saran wrap.

[4Rescue]

Freudian slip? ;)

I can't sleep in my XJ....it took one time a few years ago to convince me that was a dumb idea. Matt is shorter and likely half my weight and he uses some kind of contortioning to do it.

In the end it seems easier to put up a tent and just be done with it. It's generally more comfortable and certainly easier to avoid things like your friends duct taping you in your rig or surrounding it wait Saran wrap.Yeah WHOOPS! HAHAHAHAHAHA

You seem to have friends much like mone. Personaly that is one thing AGAINST the tent IMO, We hassle the crap out of a particular friend of ours who's GF makes him bring and set up a tent on every trip. we usualy spend the night throwing beer cans at it , and oddly anough duct taping them in.

[IXNAYXJ]

I want to be able to store the tire inside for reasons of a lower COG, but it won't fit where the factory spare is (wasn't designed for a 35" tire).
I can't wait to see your EXO. THat solves one of the biggest issues I see XJ's having. IE the lack of frame etc. Here's a link to what I think is the NICEST exo I've come across (although it's a bit of a mix of both internal and Exo really).That's funny...that's the same one I posted a pic of, and the inspiration for my new set up. He's actually going to be helping me do the final swap of all my parts from the old rig once the cage/exo is finished.

-----Matt-----

[4Rescue]

I want to be able to store the tire inside for reasons of a lower COG, but it won't fit where the factory spare is (wasn't designed for a 35" tire).That's funny...that's the same one I posted a pic of, and the inspiration for my new set up. He's actually going to be helping me do the final swap of all my parts from the old rig once the cage/exo is finished.

-----Matt-----So are you from the NW then??? I guess I didin't see the pic, I was reading this at work, and our server's block alot of hosted pics. THat's cool that you're basing the design off of his. I love the rear quarters he made, can't wait to see what you come up with.

I get what you mean about mounting it low for COG, and yeah, the donut barely fits in the back verticaly, let alone a big ol 35...

Cheers

Edit: yup sure enough there it is HA. BTW, love the healer, those dogs are sweet.

Dave

[John90XJ]

I love the rear quarters he made, can't wait to see what you come up with.

The quarter guards are made by the guys at Trail Head Off Road in Washington. Several of us have them and they really work well.

http://www.thor4x4.com/

[IXNAYXJ]

I love the rear quarters he made...As John said, those are THOR gaurds. The white 2-dr XJ on their site is my old rig:

http://www.thor4x4.com/100_0511.jpg

-----Matt-----

[4Rescue]

I did not know that. Either way, I really like those. And I love the tube fenders as well.

[IXNAYXJ]

And I love the tube fenders as well.I'll be doing some of those also. ;)

-----Matt-----

[JPFreek1]

Interesting thread, Matt. Curious to see where you go with this so continue to keep us posted. My hope is to see you complete this in such a way that you are able to enjoy your current wheeling interests but also integrate less "hardcore" wheeling in favor of general off-highway adventure. And don't forget to Tread Lightly. That photo of your old rig and the destroyed tree made me shed a tear. ;)

[IXNAYXJ]

And don't forget to Tread Lightly. That photo of your old rig and the destroyed tree made me shed a tear. ;)That's just the reality of wheeling (or living) in the NW. We have lots of trees and lots of wind storms. The Department of Natural Resources were the ones who cleaned up those stumps...the trees fell down all by themselves. We also do a lot of wheeling in areas that have been logged, so stumps are kinda part of the deal:

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f39/fzabolla/WalkerValleyJan2007008.jpg

-----Matt-----

[4Rescue]

That's just the reality of wheeling (or living) in the NW. We have lots of trees and lots of wind storms. The Department of Natural Resources were the ones who cleaned up those stumps...the trees fell down all by themselves. We also do a lot of wheeling in areas that have been logged, so stumps are kinda part of the deal:

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f39/fzabolla/WalkerValleyJan2007008.jpg

-----Matt-----
Yeah, try coming to the NW and NOT see that. Don 't forget the fire berak as well, alot of my favorite wheeling and Mt. Biking trails are the result of me and my kind hacking defensive lines in the woods.

[T&A-XJ]

Matt, I have a lot of the same goals for this next rig and the interior cargo area. I too will be at least for this next summer running with the spare tire laying flat in the cargo area. I plan on building a platform just above the tire to better pack my camping gear and also separate the tire, recovery gear, tools and spares from it. (unpacking all our crap to tighten a CA bolt or whatever sucks) I haven't measured or anything but I am thinking one could build an extension of that platform to the front seat and be able to sleep there with the rear seat folded down. Probably tight but doable.
For the cage I would consider running only one side of the "X", so basically a "/" or "\" this would still add strength to the structure but allow access to the rear seat and head room for sleeping on the opposite side. Its a compromise on the cage but figure its still a lot stronger than a stock XJ uni-body.
I'm not saying this is the best idea ever just throwing some ideas out there I have thought of in the same goal direction. Let me know what you come up with!

[T&A-XJ]

That's just the reality of wheeling (or living) in the NW. We have lots of trees and lots of wind storms. The Department of Natural Resources were the ones who cleaned up those stumps...the trees fell down all by themselves. We also do a lot of wheeling in areas that have been logged, so stumps are kinda part of the deal:

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f39/fzabolla/WalkerValleyJan2007008.jpg

-----Matt-----

Not to mention that those pics are IN an old logging site. Walker Vally is constantly logged, I think it is actually part of a tree farm. Just about every where you travel into the forest in these parts have been, will be or are being logged.

[IXNAYXJ]

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/IXNAY%20mk%20II/Cimg3778.jpg

Getting there....

-----Matt-----

[IH8RDS]

Looking good Matt.

[4Rescue]

COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL... Coming along nicely.

[JPFreek1]

Wow, looks very cool Matt. Keep us posted.

[IXNAYXJ]

All done:



http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/New%20Jeep/Cimg3839.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/New%20Jeep/Cimg3843.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/New%20Jeep/Cimg3847.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/New%20Jeep/Cimg3841.jpg

I'll post some pics of the interior, which I've not quite sorted out all the way. Anyway, hope you enjoy-

-----Matt-----

[4Rescue]

Nice... Very nice...

[Backwoods Rambler]

Looks great on the outside, but how about the inside? I know you were debating the B pillar X brace. I'd like to see how it turned out and how much space you were able to keep in your cargo area.

I've never like an Exo cage ..... until now. All the protection up top, without all the cluster down low. Great looking! :wings:

[IXNAYXJ]

Looks great on the outside, but how about the inside? I know you were debating the B pillar X brace. I'd like to see how it turned out and how much space you were able to keep in your cargo area.

I've never like an Exo cage ..... until now. All the protection up top, without all the cluster down low. Great looking! :wings:Thanks!

I'll get some pics of the interior soon. I think it worked out pretty well. I was able to retain the rear seat with enough space for passengers, but with my storage box plans, sleeping in it is probably out of the question. Not a big deal, I've got a nice small tent that should fit the bill nicely.

I'm going snow camping/wheeling this weekend once the 35's go on and I'll be sure to post up some pics of the rig in action.

-----Matt-----

[Backwoods Rambler]

I would also be interested in seeing how you sealed the holes where the inner cage connects to the outter cage portion.

Can't wait for more pics.

[cybercat]

How did you connect the rear part of cage to the interior?

[IXNAYXJ]

First real wheeling trip with the new 35's and Champion Beadlocks:

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/28Jan08%20Tinkham%20Snow%20run/Cimg3865.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/28Jan08%20Tinkham%20Snow%20run/Cimg3867.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/28Jan08%20Tinkham%20Snow%20run/Cimg3861.jpg

-----Matt-----

[Backwoods Rambler]

Anymore pics of the rear cargo area?

[Master-Pull]

Wow I have been wheeling with IXNAYXJ for the past year and a half, and watching that rig go from stock to nearly destroyed has been great. The pictures of it with straight body panels really make me laugh, currently Matt has thrashed his jeep and it is just about toast. Unibodys are great.

-Alex

[Backwoods Rambler]

WOW!! I would be divorced if my vehicles life cycles were 1.5yrs. :Wow1:

Heck, it's taken me 2+ years just to build it to a competent level as an expedition rig / very mild crawler.

[IXNAYXJ]

I didn't see that this thread got revived, but since it did, I guess I'll respond with some results. The '98, dubbed IXNAY mkII, now has about 177k miles on it, about 20k more than when I got it. This has all been done either on the road going to trails or on trails themselves. This includes three trips to Moab, totaling about a month, one trip to the Rubicon and countless smaller, local trips. I have slept in the rig most of these trips and find it very comfortable for up to about two weeks; then it's time for a real bed.

It has grown somewhat, going to 37" Goodyear MT/R w/ Kevlars, though I ended up lowering it slightly from where the SAME suspension (same RE coils, leafs and Bilstein 5100s) was on my old '94 when I ran 33's. I added a Currie Anti-Rock sway bar and with the lowered ride height and relatively low weight (appx. 5000 lbs completely loaded to the brim, 4600 lbs in fighting trim) it is extremely stable in sidehill situations. Places that I used to be hesitant to drive I now find myself taking at 25 mph. Though I was let down in this spot:

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/Gunfest%20mk%20VI/292.jpg

The front axle has been upgraded from my constantly failing Yukon shafts and joints to Superiors and CTM u-joints. Since the change I have not had a single failure, despite the switch from 35's to 37's. In the rear axle, I swapped out my Detroit and Dutchman shafts for a Superior Super 8.8 kit; this included a set of their shafts and a c-clip eliminator. At the same time I installed an ARB selectable air locker.

I cannot describe how huge of a difference the selectable in the rear made. I run almost exclusively in either 2-low (Terra kit) or 4-low, rear open. This allows the front tires to pull up obsticles rather than be pushed up them by the locked rear axle; when the tires are turned this can make all the difference in the world. Also, in loose boulder fields, rocky trails, or sloppy, muddy trail sections, leaving the rear open acts like a cutting brake...basically pivoting on the inside rear tire, the fronts doing all the work. I swear it's almost like magic.

Here she is in 2008, on the historic Naches Wagon Trail, first established in 1853 connecting Eastern and Western Washington:

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/459.jpg

Funny random picture...notice the tire tracks:

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/038-1.jpg

EJS 2008, posing with the stars of the week, Sarge and JT:

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/EJS%202008/Cimg4892.jpg

At EJS in 2009, we (I use that term in the Charles Lindbergh sense) ran Upper Helldorado at Area BFE in Moab, one of the better days of wheeling in my life. Though the trail was short, it took most of an afternoon for our group to squeeze through. Mk II didn't emerge unhurt, however...I broke large, nearly impossible to find back rear glass at this point:

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/EJS%202009/192.jpg

The "Water Fall." It could also be called the "Friggin' Vertical Wall:"

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/EJS%202009/359.jpg

Getting to wheel with Mr. Walker Evans himself was a treat, and an experience I will always treasure:. His comment of, "It's nice to meet a magazine guy who can actually drive" made my year.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/EJS%202009/421.jpg

One of the best two weeks of my life. Special thanks to the guys from Moab 4x4 Outpost who busted their guts all week to keep my (and a whole lot of other folk's) rigs on the trail. I broke two rear drive shaft u-joints, though the Reel driveshaft with Cornay joint is still doing fine after about 15k miles.

During that trip, mk II was shot by Four Wheeler photog Robin Stover and ended up in the Sept. issue. That makes three magazines she has shown up in. :lol:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/chrislala123/ATT00392.jpg

Another angle, from my camera being operated by a buddy. Note how light the front end is:

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/EJS%202009/073.jpg

-----Matt-----

[IXNAYXJ]

On a trip to Montana, I used a RC Crawler CRAWL Magazine sticker to cover the ever present airbag warning light, and the check gauges telling me the thing was over heating...always.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/Montana/028.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/Montana/029.jpg

Alpine lakes along the Continental Divide. If you've never wheeled MT, do so, you won't regret it:

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/Montana/167.jpg

Another highlight was my recent trip to the Rubicon Trail; the history combined with the amazing scenery, mixed together in a place that exemplifies what can be accomplished in the efforts of maintaining and keeping trails open when we as a group put our minds to it.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/Rubicon%202009/203.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/_DSC0390.jpg

It's been a great ride, but I'm again at an impasse. I want something that I can beat on without having to worry about so much sheet metal. In all honesty, mk II is looking kind of tired and the drive train is in need of freshening. I'd like to re-do my steering to include hydro assist and fix some issues with geometry that make it somewhat challenging to drive on the freeway. I had more or less resigned myself to building a YJ like everyone else is doing right now, but looking back through these pictures has reminded me how much I've enjoyed the XJ.

I get an honest to goodness 15.3 mpg. It's comfy-ish over long distances. It's capable as hell and always surprises people who assume it's just another unibody grocery getter, even people who should know better. I think the 103" wheelbase (stretched one inch f/r) is about perfect for all around wheeling. I love being self-sufficient, able to cover large distances, wheel as hard as I want on some of the hardest trails there are, and drive home. Haul 5 people, camera gear, provid shelter in blizzards, desert wind storms, be a home for weeks at a time.

I'm going to be taking it to the King of the Hammers race at Johnson Valley in 2010; this might be the final ride of mk II. Those trails chew up and spit out rigs bigger and better than mine; if that is where it ends, well then that's it. But then what? I feel like I fulfilled my vision of a couple years ago of a not-quite-zero compromise, but-pretty-close, expedition/wheeler. Do I do it all again...? Strip all my parts, buy a $1500 XJ, build another cage and buy myself another 2-years? Ugh. Decisions, decisions.

Here are pics as of last weekend, at the PNWJeep Meet & Greet:

Enjoying a breakfast burrito in 'bed.'

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l153/myke52081/PNWJeep%20Meet%20and%20Greet%202009/DSC00215.jpg

Set up for a 4-day weekend, with everything for one person. Still lots of room:

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/PNW%20MnG%202009/003.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/PNW%20MnG%202009/221.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/PNW%20MnG%202009/023.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/PNW%20MnG%202009/036.jpg

Sorry for the ramble, but I was feeling nostalgic. If anybody has questions about the rig, the trips, the lessons learned, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to respond.

-----Matt-----

[XXXpedition]

hey matt,
i love the jeep and especially that front bumper... :-)
if i would still live in the states i'd build up another xj. i loved mine and i would do it again (of course better :-))

if i had your skills i'd stay with the xj. why? 'cause you said it. there are a lot of wranglers out there...

anyhow, great build. looking forward to the next on ;-)
sven

[jeepmedic46]

That XJ turned out great, Can't wait to see what you do.:ylsmoke:

[Root Moose]

I think this just may be the coolest XJ in the world. :)

I dunno what to say about Mk III... YJs are cool and all but there is something about a full bodied rig getting beat on that has lots of appeal.