Overland Road Planning Thread: (7/21-23/06)

[Scott Brady]

Established in 1863, the Overland Road was the major route from Prescott (Fort Whipple) to Flagstaff (Antelope Springs), and covered nearly 85 miles.

We will do detailed research to piece this route back together, which was used as far back as the Hopi tribe. There will be a vehicle support team and a hiking team (up to 25 miles of hiking) to allow the closest approximation to the original route (most of which is known)

Friday: 10:00 am. Meet at the Super Walmart parking lot, Hwy 69 and Prescott Lakes Parkway. Depart 10:30 SHARP.

We start our trek from downtown Prescott to the Fort Whipple (aka: Fort Clark) site, and a visit to the Fort Whipple museum, building 11:
"Fort Whipple was established in November 1863 one-mile northeast of Prescott in the Chino Valley after Camp Clark was abandoned. Cavalry and Infantry soldiers stationed there participated in many Indian engagements. The Whipple Barracks became the Headquarters for the Military Department of Arizona on April 15, 1870. The post was General George Crook's District of Arizona headquarters in 1882. Centrally located in the state, the fort had a major influence on all Indian affairs in the region. The old post was condemned in 1869; all the buildings were torn down and rebuilt. Post was discontinued in 1898 and re-garrisoned in 1902. New officers’ quarters, built in 1904 from modern designs of architect Stanford White, were vastly different from earlier structures, but the post was later abandoned February 15, 1913. In 1922 the reservation transferred to the Secretary of the Treasury, and later was taken over by a Veterans Administration Hospital. The fort is one mile east of Prescott on US 89."

http://www.sharlot.org/archives/maps/images/map58-center.jpg

Drive north to ORIGINAL Fort Clark/Whipple site before its transfer in 1864:

More to come soon




Small Team of hearty travelers. Sorry, Toyota's only on this one :)

Hiking Team: Up to 6
1. Scott (Expeditions West)
2. Chris (BajaTaco)
3. Uwe (whitethaiger)
4. Randy (captain coors)
5.

Driving and support team: Up to 6 vehicles
1. Expeditions West Tacoma
2. Mark (crawler#976)
3. Michael (BX)
4. Randy and Linda (Captain Coors)
5. Al (awalter)
6.

Drivers Available:
1. Aaron (datrupr)

Tentative:
1. Wil (flyingwil)
2. BMAN

[datrupr]

Scott, since I do not own a Toyota, put me down as a driver if you need one, I would love to do this trip as well.

[whitethaiger]

:jumping: I'd like to join as a hiker.

[crawler#976]

Scott, tenatively deal me in as a support crew member. I can tow your other tent trailer if needed. I'm also pretty familiar with the area and the trail heads in the Williams area.

[Scott Brady]

I am writing the article for 4WD Toyota Owner, and with the limited slots... :(

[BajaXplorer]

Scott,
I would like to go along as a support vehicle, and to look after Mark :xxrotflma
if I have recovered enough from a June surgery.
BX

[crawler#976]

thanks BX........I think........

[flyingwil]

Interesting... Can I be placed as a tentative on this one? I do have a 'yota!

I will know for sue in mid April once our schedule bid is awarded.

[CAPTAIN COORS]

scott:
linda and i would like to join in, i'll hike and linda can support

[BMAN]

Scotty,

Can I take a tentative spot as a support driver? In the case that you need to bump me for the 6th confirmed vehicle please do so. I would love to cut the 60's expedition teeth on this run assuming that she's ready to roll. My plans are that she's ready by May for the climb and crawl, so hopefully this won't be a question for me but ya never know.

[awalter]

Write me in for support if you still have room.

Al

[crawler#976]

some info:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/kai/recreation/trails/wil_overland.shtml

http://www.sharlot.org/archives/maps/map131.html

___________________________________________

http://www.pr.state.az.us/partnerships/trails/historictrlstext.html

Overland Road
In 1863, prospectors found gold in the headwaters of the Hassayampa River, about five miles south of where Prescott lies today. Military officials in New Mexico wanted to find the shortest route to these mines. They also wanted to establish the first Arizona territorial capital near the mines.

At the time it was most used, this road extended approximately 85 miles from Flagstaff (called “Antelope Spring” before 1876) to Prescott (Fort Whipple) and served as the major way of travel between these two communities from 1863 to 1882. The United States Army used the road extensively during those years, primarily to transport men and supplies from as far away as Fort Wingate and Santa Fe, New Mexico. Settlers in the region, and for a brief time, private stage coach enterprises, also, made use of it.

There is cause to believe that prior to the road’s Anglo use, the area’s indigenous people used the trail. This path served as an important trail route for the Hopi Indians. Certain segments of the Overland Road today make up part of the region’s primary and secondary road system.

[BMAN]

Stabbed thge motor and trans in last night.

WOOOHHHOOOOO We're on our way!!!!

Goal is to be runnin for the Climb and Crawl in May!

[calamaridog]

Due to the cost of travel, I'm not going to be interested in this one. Have a fun and safe trip everyone.

[edgear]

My wife & I are both avid hikers/backpackers. And I also drive a Toyota. Count us in!! I would love to be able to drive as support, and I'm sure my wife would love to hike. Please let us know if there would be room.

Also -- it would be awesome to be a part of the story you're writing for 4WD Toyota Owner magazine ;)

[seth_js]

ooo, ooo, any hiking spots left? I'd love to do this one. And somebody can drive my Tacoma if they want. I don't know if it meets certain specs you have. She cleans up real nice. :) You can see it here:

http://seth.phizz.net/stuff/my_taco/

-Seth

[Seeker]

If you're open, I would love to join up and can hike or drive.

[crawler#976]

couple of teasers from 02 Apr 06...

[flyingwil]

Interesting... Can I be placed as a tentative on this one? I do have a 'yota!

I will know for sue in mid April once our schedule bid is awarded.


I am game for this one... But if need be give my spot to Seth to get out there and meet some of the ExPo Crew!
(He did say he was game prior to me too!)

[seth_js]

I am game for this one... But if need be give my spot to Seth to get out there and meet some of the ExPo Crew!
(He did say he was game prior to me too!)

No worries man, I don't want you to miss out. I should probably go on some day trips with you guys before I barge in on something like this.

-Seth

[flyingwil]

No worries man, I don't want you to miss out. I should probably go on some day trips with you guys before I barge in on something like this.

-Seth

Naw dude, take it!

Speaking of... I would love to do a run near where we had AZROCKS... Let me know if you are up for a run someday!

[seth_js]

Naw dude, take it!

Speaking of... I would love to do a run near where we had AZROCKS... Let me know if you are up for a run someday!

I don't know if you're available tomorrow, but I'm running Sunflower with two friends (great guys). If you haven't run Sunflower, it's an awesome trail. One of my "local" favs. And actually, tomorrow I will be going off the beaten path a little out to the second, less known, better preserved seperator.

If you get this is time and want to come, Beeline and Bush Highway at 7:30am.

Seth
602-740-9954

[Scott Brady]

Sunflower is a great trail. Wish I could join you guys...

[seth_js]

I assume you have prior arrangements, but you are more than welcome to come if not... any of you for that matter.

-Seth

[edgear]

Scott -- how is the research coming along for this trip? Are you still going to be doing a write-up for a magazine?
:coffee:

[seth_js]

Is this still on? If so, any hiking spots left?

-Seth

[Scott Brady]

Yes, this event is still on. :)

I have two hiking spots left. I can also make room for two more trucks. :beer:

[seth_js]

I'd like to join the hike of no one else minds. And I can donate my truck if someone wants to drive it.

-Seth

[crawler#976]

Scott,

I'll be there as a support driver - got the time off confirmed today.

[crawler#976]

Checked out the trail heads today and took a few pic's and GPS coords.

Starting from the southern end of the trail, the first cairn is just across the boundry line between the Prescott Nat. Forest and the Kiabab Nat. Forest on County Rd. 73 at:

N35.0360 W112.2242

The first "official" trailhead, Bandit Trailhead is also on CR 73 at:

N35.0759 W112.2076

The second is at Summit Tank, off FS Rd 57:

N35.1191 W112.1502

The third is off CR 73 and FS 139 at:

N35.1519 W112.1460

Fourth one at Pomeroy Tanks, on FS 109, is at:

N35.1500 W112.0351

Between Pomeroy Tanks and the next trail head might be some of the most scenic hiking opportunities. The Sycamore Rim Trail and Overland Trail share trail heads, and while it does deviate from the Overland Trail by short distance, might be worth considering. I'm pretty limited hiking wise, but we did get in a short walk to Sycamore Vista from the Sycamore Rim Trailhead off FS 56:

N35.1361 W112.0045

The next trailhead past Pomeroy on the Overland Trail is Dow Springs off FS 131:

N35.1550 W111.9831

The last trail head is on FS 24 before the old trail enters a restricted area on Camp Navajo:

N35.1862 W111.9366

Later!

Mark

[seth_js]

Sweet! Great pics.

-Seth

[edgear]

Unfortunately, I have too much other stuff going on in July, so I won't be able to make this one. It looks like an awesome trip though. I look forward to hearing about how it goes & seeing the writeup in the magazine!

I sure hope that wildfire doesn't interfere. That would be a major bummer.
:campfire:

[BajaXplorer]

Scott,
Where we at on this? Is this area closed now?
Monsoons are upon us, couple of weeks can make a big difference.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I have a bad case of "cabin fever" and need to get out.
BX

[datrupr]

Scott, I am out. Give my driver spot up to someone else that may want to go.

[Scott Brady]

As of right now, half of the route is closed. Coconino NF is closed.

It is quite possible that summer storms will change that (we have already received rain). If the forest is still closed on the 10th, I will change the dates to August 11-13...

If I do change the dates, I will likely still have a camping trip that weekend, just in the Prescott NF area.

[Scott Brady]

Mark,

I missed your earlier post. Thanks so much for the pre-scout and details! :bowdown:

[BajaTaco]

Mark, thanks for the leg work and pics! Great stuff!

BX, I just got home from a 5 day adventure and the fever has not left my body. I hear ya man!!

[crawler#976]

Hey Scott,

The "official" trail is still open on the Kaibab Nat. Forest. From FS 24 (Garland Prairie/Parks road) the old trail heads into the closed National Guard area south of I-40.

[Scott Brady]

several updates. More to come soon.

Recent rains make this trip a GO!

Looking forward to camping and trekking with friends.:camping:

[BMAN]

OUT for this one.

:(

[crawler#976]

couple more pic's...

[flyingwil]

Interesting... Can I be placed as a tentative on this one? I do have a 'yota!

I will know for sue in mid April once our schedule bid is awarded.


Darn, I can not make it! I got Junior Assigned, Vacation requests were denied... Sad seeing I am in charge of the schedule, and seniority #1. It's all part of my job, though. Next is the electronic leash (AKA: BlackBerry) and should be in tomorrow :smilies27

Sorry guys! I look forward to report on this one!

[crawler#976]

Restrictions To Be Lifted On Kaibab And Coconino National Forests

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. —Campfire and smoking restrictions will be lifted on the Kaibab and Coconino National Forests beginning Wednesday, July 12, at 8 a.m. Recent rains have decreased the fire danger on both forests, thus decreasing the risk of major wildfires.

“Although campfires and smoking will be allowed throughout the two forests, people should properly extinguish cigarettes in ash trays, and ashes in a campfire ring should be cold enough to touch before they are left,” says Coconino Fire Staff Officer Bruce Greco. “Campfires should be put out by drowning them with water and stirring with a stick or shovel.”

Forest visitors are also reminded that some campfire restrictions are always in effect, such as in forested areas within Flagstaff city limits and within Oak Creek Canyon.

Area closures remain in effect for the Brins Fire northwest of Sedona on the Coconino National Forest and the Warm Fire on the North Kaibab Ranger District of the Kaibab National Forest. These closures will remain in place until hazards associated with the fires can be mitigated.

As always, forest managers are asking visitors to follow the Leave No Trace principle: pack it in, pack it out. Inspect your campsite and rest areas for trash or spilled foods. Pack out all trash, leftover food, and litter.

“The public deserves thanks for their diligence throughout this summer,” said Doug Ottosen, Kaibab National Forest fire management officer. “If it weren’t for people exercising caution, we could have had a lot more fires. That diligence should continue even though we are removing restrictions. Fire safety is a year-round priority.”

For additional information about fire restrictions on public lands in Arizona and New Mexico, call toll free 1-877-864-6985 or visit http://gacc.nifc.gov/swcc/

[Scott Brady]

Seth and Seeker: You guys still in? Hiking or driving?

I am looking forward to having you guys along!

We are going to need to work out a driving/hiking plan. We may rotate, etc. to ensure enough drivers.

Oh, and the article is planned for 4WDTO, so guaranteed coverage :)

[whitethaiger]

Plan here so far is that I'll roll out there with Al on Friday morning.

Any special gear/equipment to remember? Doesn't really look like it from the posts and links. I'll have my typical day-hike stuff (water, snacks, whistle, mirror, knife, 2m HH, tracking poles, etc.)

[seth_js]

Seth and Seeker: You guys still in? Hiking or driving?

I am looking forward to having you guys along!

We are going to need to work out a driving/hiking plan. We may rotate, etc. to ensure enough drivers.

Oh, and the article is planned for 4WDTO, so guaranteed coverage :)

I have to back out of this one. I didn't know my boss was going to Montana for two weeks, and they require one of us to be there, so I won't be able to take Friday off.

Sorry

[crawler#976]

Great News!

The Monsoons are back and very active up on the Rim. That brings cooler temps and almost a guarenteed showers after 12:00 PM. The hiking party should be prepared for possibly heavy rain showers.

[BajaTaco]

That's a bummer that some of you guys can't make it.

On the flip side - Uwe, glad to hear you are gonna do it! :jumping:

[BajaTaco]

Great News!

The hiking party should be prepared for possibly heavy rain showers.

In that case, so should the drivers! :p

[Scott Brady]

Thanks to Mark's input and scouting, we have the start of a great route. I have been doing more research, ensuring we follow the original route as much as possible.

In fact, I have an appointment at the Sharlot Hall museum in Prescott tomorrow to review several archived maps to the route to refine even more.

This trip is going to be VERY fun :camping:

[whitethaiger]

Cool about those museum maps. Think they let you make copies to work with? If not maybe you can make some digi pics.
I tried to find some map online, but the one promissing link got me a "file not found".

Do you have any waypoints yet to upload to GPS?

I'm really looking forward to this one. It will be nice to see some water falling from the sky again :)


Thanks to Mark's input and scouting, we have the start of a great route. I have been doing more research, ensuring we follow the original route as much as possible.

In fact, I have an appointment at the Sharlot Hall museum in Prescott tomorrow to review several archived maps to the route to refine even more.

This trip is going to be VERY fun :camping:

[BajaXplorer]

I expect to be in Prescott around 8:30am on friday and will be looking to go to breakfast. Anyone want to meet for some chow, coffee and/or BS? If not, I'll see you all at WallyMart before 10.
BX

[Scott Brady]

Great idea BX.

The Lone Spur is pretty decent. I also like the Apple Pan. Both are on Gurley.

Chris, any thoughts on this one?

[crawler#976]

Shucks

Since I'll be going to the Land Use meeting afterwork Thursday, I'll be getting ready for the trip Friday morning (packing, groceries, etc.), so no breakfast for me...

[BajaXplorer]

Mark, get ready on wednesday:D

There was a nice little place on Gurley right at the creek on the south/west side. Can't remember the name, but anyplace is fine with me.
BX

[BajaTaco]

Great idea BX.

The Lone Spur is pretty decent. I also like the Apple Pan. Both are on Gurley.

Chris, any thoughts on this one?

Yea, we should introduce BX to the Apple Pan :)

BX, the place you are thinking of is the Dinner Bell Cafe, which has a cool little section out back looking over the creek. It's good. Problem is, it is high profile so usually hard to get a table without waiting for a while. There is almost never a wait at the AP, and the food is just as good. Just keep heading west on Gurley, past the Dinner Bell and the creek, pass the first light at McCormick st, and look for AP on your right before you get to the 2nd light at Grove Ave.

See you there at Ocho y media amigo :chowtime:

[BajaXplorer]

Sounds good to me, see you there.
BX

[CAPTAIN COORS]

linda and i will be camping at white spar campground thursday, 3 miles south of prescott, if you don't mind, we'd like to share some hot coffee with you

[crawler#976]

In that case, so should the drivers! :p

I'll make sure my wipers are working...

:xxrotflma

[BajaTaco]

linda and i will be camping at white spar campground thursday, 3 miles south of prescott, if you don't mind, we'd like to share some hot coffee with you

There will be plenty! :coffee: < sipping while looking at overland map

[whitethaiger]

There will be plenty! :coffee: < sipping while looking at overland map

Where'd you get that map?

[BajaTaco]

Where'd you get that map?

Thus far, it is imaginary (we're counting on Scott's visit to the museum tomorrow). The best I have found is this..

http://www.sharlot.org/archives/maps/map131.html

[crawler#976]

That's all I've found too - it's current from the Kiabab NF., and is the same map shown at the trail heads. Hopefully Scott will see a historical map at the SHM.

Scott e-mailed me earlier and asked about crossing the Verde on the original route. My best guess is it went over the Verde at or near present day Perkinsville, that avoids the major cliffs on the upper Verde The other opportunity is near the confluence of Hell Canyon and the Verde. We used to be able to cross at the confluence, but those trails have been closed for many years now. Neat place to hike tho...

Perkinsville is at: N34.901 W112.197

The confluence is at: N34.918 W112.277

We also used to be able to cross at the Gas Pipeline. It was a blast - you could cross there and come out on Verde Ranch Rd., or head down stream, and, if the river was low, get to the confluence and exit to the north. On the way is a neat Cliff dwelling at King's Canyon. The Gas Pipeline crossing property is now owned by the Nature Conservency and is closed to motorized access. The pipeline ford is at N34.895 W112.335. It could also have been a crossing point, but since Hell Canyon would still have to be crossed somewhere, I'd guess it's not as likely.

[awalter]

What kind of evening temperature should we expect?

[Scott Brady]

In the low 50's with the posibility of rain. :camping:

[crawler#976]

Point forecast for the area we'll be in, at an elevation of 6900' - we could be up to 300 higher or lower...

Friday: Partly cloudy. Chance of thunderstorms. Southeast wind 5 mph. High 80.

Friday Night: Partly cloudy. Slight chance of thunderstorms. Low 55.

Saturday: Partly cloudy. Chance of thunderstorms. High 79.

Saturday Night: Partly cloudy. Chance of thunderstorms. Low 54.

Sunday: Partly cloudy. Chance of thunderstorms. High 79.

[awalter]

Scott,

What CB channel & 2-meter frequency will be used?

Al

[Scott Brady]

CB: Channel 4

2M: 146.460

[whitethaiger]

BX, are there any 2m repeaters in the area we might be able to use?

[Scott Brady]

Here is the rough route: Mark and I will spend some time refining tomorrow :)

TOPO! GPS Data Format DegMin NAD83 ElevFeet UTC-Time
FT WHPPLE,34,33.051,-112,27.439,5322,07/19/2006,23:31:57,
DEL RIO,34,49.616,-112,27.444,4433,07/19/2006,23:33:17,
E OFF 89,34,54.240,-112,27.786,4439,07/20/2006,06:20:37,
CROSS RR,34,54.301,-112,26.158,4590,07/20/2006,06:21:15,
OR 1,34,55.529,-112,22.461,4659,07/20/2006,06:24:51,
DEEP TNK,34,55.965,-112,20.816,4446,07/20/2006,06:25:55,
OR2,34,56.021,-112,22.401,4610,07/20/2006,06:25:32,
PAGE FLAT,34,56.545,-112,21.733,4542,07/20/2006,06:25:41,
KNG SPRNG,34,56.730,-112,19.650,4219,07/20/2006,06:22:29,
OR3,34,56.982,-112,19.892,4432,07/20/2006,06:26:23,
173 PRK RD,34,57.926,-112,15.762,4555,07/20/2006,06:16:50,
OR4,34,58.262,-112,18.480,4449,07/20/2006,06:26:39,
DRAKE RD,34,59.246,-112,18.463,4533,07/20/2006,06:26:48,
BANDT TANK,35,04.788,-112,12.544,6399,07/17/2006,00:27:24,
BEAR SPR,35,05.198,-112,10.806,6621,07/17/2006,00:25:38,
DAV TANK,35,06.359,-112,10.528,6781,07/17/2006,00:22:47,
SCOTT TNK,35,06.393,-111,48.572,7165,07/20/2006,06:09:12,
LO SPRNG,35,07.576,-111,53.400,6970,07/20/2006,06:10:20,
POM TANK,35,08.357,-112,00.473,6681,07/17/2006,00:34:21,
SHEEP TNK,35,08.435,-111,55.372,6765,07/20/2006,06:10:50,
RGRS LAKE,35,08.529,-111,46.832,7269,07/20/2006,06:08:53,
CCC CMP,35,09.016,-112,09.103,7083,07/17/2006,00:30:45,
DHRSE TANK,35,09.051,-112,07.360,7051,07/17/2006,00:23:49,
WHT RANCH,35,09.282,-112,03.370,6678,07/17/2006,00:31:56,
DOW SPRNG,35,09.297,-111,59.137,6722,07/17/2006,00:34:31,
BG SPRNG,35,09.476,-112,04.852,6824,07/17/2006,00:31:12,
OR 16,35,10.867,-111,41.678,7100,07/19/2006,23:41:20,
ANTLP SPR,35,11.836,-111,39.618,6966,07/20/2006,06:07:54,

[Scott Brady]

My time at the Sharlot Hall (http://sharlot.org/index.shtml) was excellent. The archives were an ease and pleasure to use, including reviewing 100 year old maps. The combination of maps, accounts and most importantly water stop names provided enough detail.

Each different resource solved or contributed to resolving another mystery. The route will be very close to the original.




FOR THE TRIP REPORT THREAD- GO HERE (http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=26666#post26666)