Survival Sack: When things go bad...

[Scott Brady]

Despite its risks, some of us do travel alone or in politicaly / geologicaly dangerous regions. Having experienced a few (really) bad things, which fortunately did not happen to me, but a fellow traveler, I am reviewing the concept of a Survival Sack.

http://www.expeditionswest.com/adventures/2002/Alaska_2002/BroncoFlip.jpg

I really can't take credit for the idea, as it was something I learned (as a more detailed concept) from Bill Burke (http://www.bb4wa.com/) (he calls it a bug out bag).

I want to take the concept a little further and discuss the most appropriate bag, contents and methods of storage.

The Bag: I am of the opinion that the Sack should be a waterproof backpack of HD construction. I have a few bags, one from The North Face and the other from Seattle Sports

I think the backpack feature is pretty critical, should you have to hike for an extended distance.

The Contents:

1. Shelter
2. Food
3. Water
4. Communications
5. Warmth
6. Emergency Care
7. Navigation
8. Basic Survival Equipment
9. Signaling
10. Critical Documents

The Storage:

Must be within easy reach of the driver and passenger. If you break through the ice, or get pulled down stream, etc. it must be a quick grab.

I am curious for the feedback of more qualified member of this forum to what the contents should be. I also think the contents should vary slightly depending on the conditions of the trip (I.E. Cold= Less water, more shelter)

I think we should all consider having one of these available.

[offroad_nomad]

This is an interesting and fun topic to discuss. I'm a self-admitted "gadget guru" and I'm always curious about the other neat things folks have discovered.

Survival packs are going to vary from person-to-person as well as location, weather conditions, expected length of use, and etc.

I keep my SAR pack and related search and rescue kit in my 4Runner at all times since we're oncall 24/7. In a nutshell, we must have enough supplies to sustain ourselves in the field for 48+ hours. I pack heavy and can go longer.

When I get home from work, I'll edit this post with additional details.

* * * EDIT * * *

I was thinking about this on the Metro heading home from work. Most of the survival items would be the stuff we would bring with us on a multi day offroad excursion. Depending on how these items are packed in your vehicle, you might have to go out and purchase a backpack to carry your survival gear in the event you had to abandon your vehicle and walk out to safety.

Everyone has great suggestions.

Looking at Scott's list:

1. Shelter
Depending on the environment, and of course personal preference, a lightweight sil-tarp (silicone impregnated nylon tarp) or small tent may be needed. Myself, for survival situations, I like tarp shelters. They're easy to set-up, the tarp is lightweight (my 8x10 sil-tarp weighs 13 oz.), not as bulky as a tent saving valuable space in your pack, and if properly built, the shelter works in all environments.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/DC_Magoo/Shelter1.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/DC_Magoo/Shelter4.jpg
We built this shelter during our winter survival training using a 10x10 tarp, with a log as the main overhead support, and the log leaned against a large boulder. The boulder, nesides being useful as a shelter support, reflected the heat from our small fire back into the tarp shelter. The temps hovered around 15 deg F that night. It doesn't look like much, but we were warm enough, protected from any snow and five of us slept in it. We also placed plastic sheeting and my Tyvek sheet as ground cover. We also stuffed several large trash bags (we're required to keep 5 in our packs) with leaves to sleep on as a thermal barrier in addition to sleeping mats.

It bears noting again, your shelter should be something you know how to set up and use, whether it's a tarp, tent, Henessey Hammock (my next camping purchase) or whatever.

2. Food
For survival purposes, you might consider packing a majority of your food that doesn't require any preparation and/or cooking. Such as beef jerky, Pop-Tarts (I love those), trail mix, protein/nutrition bars. Another consideration, you may have to conserve your water and having to use it to rehydrate dried foods will deplete your water supplies quickly. If you have a small stove, such as a Jet Boil, and access to water rehydrating food to eat won't waste your supplies.

Over the last few years I have been surprised to find several of the major backpacking dehydrated food manufacturers improving their products both quality-wise and the types of foods offered. I recently tested Saigon Noodles, an Indian Curry dish, and a chocolate mousse dessert. I always test any new dehydrated food from the safety of my home. My reasoning, if my GI system rejects the new food and I find myself running to the bathroom with the "runs," I'd rather it happen at home then in the woods or somewhere else.

3. Water
At a minimum, I pack at least 2 liters of water and gatorade. I'll carry extra if I know I won't be resupplied in the near future. When it comes down to water vs. food, I always pack more water then food. then you'll need to consider whether or not to pack a water purifier or a water filter. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. Again, personal preference will come into play.

4. Communications
A handheld 2m radio with a spare battery pack that accepts AA batteries. The proprietary battery will drain shortly and the AA batteries are a good back up. Many handheld radios are being built to "mil-spec" specifications and can take a bit of moisture, but not a downpour. We carry 1 gallon zip lock baggies and they can be used to protect the HH radios. Make a little hole for the antenna, shove the radio in, seal around the hole with electrical tape and zip up the baggie. We've used this method to protect our radios (Bendix Kings and Icoms) in down pours with good success.

5. Warmth

6. Emergency Care

7. Navigation

8. Basic Survival Equipment

9. Signaling

10. Critical Documents


Survivorman . . . Survivorman, I know you guys watch it. We even have a thread going about it too. Some critics say this guy is a nut. Personally speaking, he knows his stuff. Whenever we do weekend training bivys the topic arises and we try to do one or two things done in the shows such as fire building without matches/lighters, shelter building, gathering water.

It's 1:48 am EST and for some reason, I can't fall asleep.

[Brian McVickers]

Ian,
I look forward to seeing the list of what you include in your SAR pack!

[Jonathan Hanson]

Hmm . . . Am I "more qualified?" I don't think so . . .

But I do think this is a good idea. I've put together two types of bug-out bags.

When sea kayaking I kept a waterproof (obviously!) stuff sack on my rear deck, with a clip connecting it to my PFD - life jacket, that is. The bag contained a two-liter Nalgene full of water, a marine VHF radio, a signal mirror (a proper glass one with sight hole), three Skyblazer aerial flares, a small strobe, a solar still kit (moderately useful if you have a supply of salt water), a fishing kit with line and lures, a Swiss Army knife, two small flashlights, a bunch of waterproof matches, a small first-aid kit, a pad of paper and a pencil, a compass, and some wire snares and cord. Its goal was survival if I became separated from the boat and stranded on a deserted coast with no access to the Professor or Mary Ann.

I also keep a Filson field bag more or less ready to grab at the house. It contains extra loaded magazines for my Glock 32, a Surefire 6P (bright!) flashlight and a AA LED (long-lasting) flashlight, a quart Nalgene of water, and a couple of rather large knives. Its purpose is in case I need to flee the house under some extremely unlikely scenario, and possibly mount a counter-assault (even more unlikely). But since we live a long way from help we're totally on our own if a bunch of desperate drug smugglers or drunk rednecks show up with bad intent. Much less a bunch of desperately drunk red-neck drug smugglers. I can toss the cell phone and pistol in the bag be off into the desert.

This bag also comes in the vehicle on trips. It's comfortable to carry, but wouldn't do for a multi-day trek. Anything up to a 30-mile hike out it would be fine. For a possible longer walk I think a small internal-frame pack might be the ticket.

For what Scott is talking about some content modifications would definitely be in order (perhaps go a little lighter on the artillery?).

If I wanted carryable shelter in such a situation I'd pick the Black Diamond Firstlight:

http://www.usoutdoorstore.com/outlet/index.cfm?fa=products.showDetail&sku=810150

Two and a half pounds and reasonably stormproof; it could keep you alive in nasty conditions. A Stephenson 2X would work as well if not better. I believe a tent is more important than a sleeping bag in cold and stormy conditions if you're dressed properly.

I've played around with a lot of fire-starting implements such as flints and magnesium sticks, etc. They're loads of fun, but in the back of my mind was always the thought, Gee, if I remembered to bring all this stuff why not just bring a bunch of waterproof matches? Add some firestarting paste and you're set.

[Brian McVickers]

Great Thread!

In my travels by boat I used to carry two bags.
I had one set up and dedicated for the unfortunate situation of abandoning ship in the ocean
and I had one that I would take ashore when going into isolated unknown and possibly dangerous areas.

Extended or short term expedition type vehicle travel (especially in isolated desert or cold regions) has very many similarities to offshore sailing. Help is far away and the environment can be hostile

Here is a description of the bags:

Abandon Ship Bag (Ditch Bag)
Note that this would acompany a life raft, a waterproof floating case of fresh water packets and a floating bag of warm clothing. In an ideal sinking, if there is such a thing!, you would have the opportunity to gather all your prepacked bags or possibly even pack one from scratch. The Ditch Bag however was the bag you grabbed if you only had seconds. You then hold onto it while you float around waiting and hoping that the hydrostatic release works properly and allows the life raft to surface!
(Ditch Bag)
A waterproof floating duffle bag that could float even when open due to the foam in the sides
Identification papers, Emergency contact information, Proof of ownership of the vessel
One credit card, $50 in cash
Navigation (large scale chart, compass, dividers, pencil, small notepad)
Two sets of long sleeve and long pant capelin or polypro long underwear
Two wool caps
Two sets of long sleeve and long pant lightweight material, against sun exposure
Two pair of sunglasses
Survival blankets
Signal devises (Flare Gun w/flares, handheld flares, parachute flares, smoke, whistle, signal mirror)
Small desalinator or Water packets
MREs and high calorie energy bars
Sunscreen
Lip balm
Multi-tool
Large pointy dive knife and small blunt nose BC type knife
Fishing kit and small hand held gaff
First aid kit
Flashlight, headlamp
Hand held waterproof VHF radio
Hand held GPS
EPIRB (Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon)

Going Ashore Bag
A 1200 ci lumbar hip bag with shoulder straps or a med sized hydration pack with 100oz bladder
2L of water using the lumbar or the bladder full of water in the pack
Identification papers, Emergency contact information, Proof of ownership of the vessel
One credit card - hidden, $50 in cash - small bills hidden
Compass, pencil, small notepad, large scale map
First aid kit, survival blanket
High calorie energy bars
Sunscreen, lip balm
Multi-tool, pocket knife, small can of mace/pepper spray, headlamp
Fire starter
25' of parachute cord
Depending on the area and planned activity (100' of rope, karabiners, small ascender, machete, gps, VHF)


For Vehicle Survival Sack
I carry the basics borrowed from the two above including a smoke signal which is a good alternative to flares in areas prone to forest fires

I want to add:
a lightweight compact form of shelter even if it's just a poncho
a hand held 2meter radio
a water filter/purifier


I never had to use the abandon ship bag
and the going ashore bag always seem to come in handy somehow.

A classic memory, I took my ashore bag along on a rainforest hike to explore some waterfalls with about 15 new friends and NO local guide. About half the crowd was over 60 and looking a bit rickety! Nobody brought anything more than a walking stick and flip flops and one of the older gentlemen looking at my pack with a machete and rope strapped to the side asked "what are you bringing all that stuff for?" "Oh, this stuff is for when you slip out of your sandals break a hip and slide down the bluff into the river!" He said "good idea, would you mind walking behind my wife and I, feel free to stay close"!

[Jonathan Hanson]

A classic memory, I took my ashore bag along on a rainforest hike to explore some waterfalls with about 15 new friends and NO local guide. About half the crowd was over 60 and looking a bit rickety! Nobody brought anything more than a walking stick and flip flops and one of the older gentlemen looking at my pack with a machete and rope strapped to the side asked "what are you bringing all that stuff for?" "Oh, this stuff is for when you slip out of your sandals break a hip and slide down the bluff into the river!" He said "good idea, would you mind walking behind my wife and I, feel free to stay close"!

Ha!

[Scott Brady]

Jonathan and Brian,

Awesome posts. Many items I had not considered.

I will poll all of the posts and generate a basic, cold and warm weather list.

[Scott Brady]

Ian,

Thanks so much for the input. I am very interested in your thoughts as the thread develops.

[60seriesguy]

Great topic, I've also given this a lot of thought, especially after "incidents". Some thoughts:

Water containers need to be sturdy, so as to withstand transportation and be easily refillable and easily carried (like bladder systems). I would also include a small water filtration system or at the very least, iodine/purification tablets. Finding water isn't always so hard, finding *potable* water can be.

A handful of brightly-colored flash cards, a pencil, and a handfull of zip-lock backs can be an effective way of leaving messages.

All of my kits have a small fishing setup (line, handful of small hooks, couple of press-on sinkers). You don't need to catch large fish to get protein, and smaller fish are more abundant/easier to catch. You can live a long time on fish and water.

High protein, high calorie bars. Make sure you choose those with a long shelf life. Taste is not that important, but the packaging should be the sturdier kind, like PowerBars.

Extra socks, extra t-shirt. If you're stuck a long way from civilization and have to hump it back, you can wear the same clothes for a long time, but you want to make sure you wear dry socks, especially in humid places (may not apply to those of you in AZ, but back in South America, this was a mantra). Make sure the extra t-shirt is a bright, obnoxious color, or at least white, they're much easier to spot from the air than earth tones.

polished metal mirror, old school compass, maps, firestarter, Leatherman, kukri-style knife (can be used for chopping, and even for defense), soft broad-brimmed hat, sunblock, sunglasses, flashlight, plastic bottle of insect repellent, a handful of nylon zip ties, couple of survival blankets, rain/wind shell, cord, comprehensive first aid kit (fortified with vitamin supplements and adapted to the type of terrain/climate you frequent), one change of clothes (again, suited to your terrain/climate), 2-3 road flares, everything packed individually in the freezer-type ziplock bags inside a strong, comfortable backpack, preferably a brightly colored one.

One of the most important things about a survival kit is getting into a strict schedule of supervision/revision. Make sure you check it at regular intervals to make sure everything is up-to-date and usable. Label the survival kit as such and make sure that EVERY passenger knows its location. In a bad accident, you may not be the one able to reach it. Find a good location for it within your gear and ALWAYS keep it in the same location, you may have to reach for it in the dark, in a matter of seconds, under duress.

Sorry it wasn't more organized, I just wrote down thoughts as they came to me.

[Doin_It]

I missed the story this past week or so on the news, but wasn't there in family that got lost/snowed in some where in CA. Did it say at all what they did to survive?

[Scott Brady]

I missed the story this past week or so on the news, but wasn't there in family that got lost/snowed in some where in CA. Did it say at all what they did to survive?

Yeah, they had an RV... Lots of water, food and a heater.

Better than all of the camps I intentionally have :ylsmoke:

[datrupr]

It was in Oregon, a family from Az was snowed in in thier RV for two weeks. I think they lived off of dried, canned, and snack foods for that time.

[Brian McVickers]

Another thought is to keep your pack as a dedicated Survival Sack, don't use its contents for general use. This may mean purchasing two or three of something like a headlamp or flashlight. If you only have one headlamp and you keep it in your Survival Sack but then take it out to use it for general purposes you then need to remember to put it back in the pack and that is a risk of forgetting.

[offroad_nomad]

The rescued family that survived for 17 days in their RV, are missing again . . . this time fugitives with warrants issued for the couple's arrest.

CNN reports, "Eleven months ago, they'd been caught with a small amount of methamphetamine and a shotgun, deputies said, but they agreed to cooperate with investigators. Then they disappeared" and weren't seen or their whereabouts known until they showed up on the news following their rescue.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/28/family.found.ap/index.html


I missed the story this past week or so on the news, but wasn't there in family that got lost/snowed in some where in CA. Did it say at all what they did to survive?

[flyingwil]

In all the aircraft I fly I take a Survival Pack with me, and the correlation between the two could be similar. Basic elements will be the same in this application, due to weight requirements. In small aircraft as much as 50lbs could be the determining factor in weather you leave the ground or hit the trees at the end of the runway.

IMO a most basic survival pack is composed of the following:

2 D Cell Batteries
2 Chem-Lites
1 Drinking cup
2 Emergency Blankets
Flight light (D cell Mag)
Smoke Signal
Matches (water/windproof)
Match Case
50 ft Nylon cord
Pocket Knife
Energy bars
Signal Mirror
Toilet Paper
tube tent
Lip Balm
Hand Warmers
Water Purification Tablets
Water Bottle
Whistle
Wire Saw
First aid kit
Alieve (2 packets)
Aspirin (2 packs)
Antiseptic eye wash (1 bottle)
Sterile Pads (4)
Eye Pads (2)
1 can burn spray
1 box assorted band aids
sterile cotton (1 Box)
Latex Gloves (2 Pair)
Alcohol swabs (6)
Ammonia Inhalant (3)
Gauze (1 roll)
Tweezers
Scissors


However, the list will have be modified to suit the environmental surroundings of the expedition travel.

Hope that helps somewhat.

[robert]

Skimming through these, I would add a floppy brimmed hat first along with a bandana or two. I'm really partial to bandanas for their utility- slings, tying things, bandages, filtering, hats, sun protection, flag to attract attention (obviously camo would be a bad color choice), hand towel, carrying bag, etc.

In no particular order and off the top of my head:
I keep a Camelback Transalp in my truck with a change of clothes (Khaki BDU pants, long sleeve t-shirt extra socks)

Lightweight rain jacket
Two lighters/waterproof matches firesticks (tender)
Signal mirror
Parachute cord
Small fixed blade knife
Leather gloves
Motrin
Imodium
Band aides and Neosporin
Small flattened roll of duct tape
Surefire light with extra set of batteries
An LED light clipped to one shoulder strap and a whistle on the other shoulder strap
Compact toothbrush and toothpaste (never know when you might run into Maryann and Ginger and I hate not brushing my teeth anyways)
Small liquid soap container for cleansing abrasions etc
Compass
Maps
Copies of papers/driver’s license/passport, etc
Small notepad and pencil
Water purification tablets
Two MRE meals-stripped
Two large trash bags
Most of the small stuff is sorted into Ziploc bags
And generally an extra magazine or two for whatever pistol I happen to be favoring at the time.


I usually have a case of water bottles in the truck so filling the Camelback is no problem and I can carry extra full bottles in the pockets on the side.

[GoOutSideAndPlay]

Hi all,
I was all prepped and ready to add my 2cents, but this is a pretty good list so far and I feel to much more might be redundant. I've been studying survivalist skills for a short time now and I've compiled a little list of links to some great sites for info and gear on the subject. Heres a few of them. Check 'em out and if anyone is interested in an excel spreadsheet with comprehensive gear set lists for truck, SAR pack, everyday carry, bugout and camping please feel free to IM (bluegarden1976 or igooutsidenplay, both aim) me and I'll send it to you.

Stay safe out there! and remember the most important piece of survival equipment you'll ever carry is the few lbs of meat you keep wedged in between your ears. Train it well!

Chris
http://www.yellowstonetrading.com/merchant2/merchant.mv?
http://www.equipped.org/
http://www.survival-center.com/index.htm
http://www.actiongear.com/cgi-bin/tame.exe/agcatalog/index.tam

[Brian McVickers]

I just got four new MREs!:eatchicke
They have them for about $7 each over at Luke Air Force Base in AZ
(my Father-in-law and Brother-in-law both served so I get to go to the commissary every once in a while!)

The tasty menu offerings include::chowtime:
Menu No 1 = Grilled Beefsteak w/mushrooms
Menu No 5 = Chicken
Menu No 8 = Beef Patty
Menu No 19 = Pot Roast w/vegetables

Complete list of contents for each Menu No can be found at http://www.dscp.dla.mil/subs/rations/programs/mre/mreabt.htm

They are made my a company called Wornick
http://www.wornick.com/military/MREs.html

and they have recently come out with a consumer version called Eversafe http://www.wornick.com/emergencyprep/

They also make a special Cold Weather MRE but it is not available to general consumer
http://www.wornick.com/military/MCWLRP.html

I plan to keep a couple of these in my Bugoutbag, one in my truck and one in Amy's car, just in case!

They even have their own heating element:campfire:

[flywgn]

This is a good thread. It gives pause to consider all those treks we take.

We carry much of what's been mentioned above, but with all the technology that's out there we tend to take a more direct approach to life-saving. We always have a few days' rations of food and water with us and if we had to we could stretch them out to last for three or four times their intended use life. We carry first-aid items as well.

But, for those unexpected times when there's an emergency, we carry a satellite telephone and a PLB (Personal Locating Beacon). I have taken the extra step of having the PLB alert Stratus (our INMARSAT server) who has a bunch of personal information about us as well.

We've used the satphone a bunch, mostly for personal stuff, but twice we called in help for others and I have to say it was worth every penny (in satphone that's 'dollar'). The PLB has been idle, thankfully, so I just last week sent it back to be checked out.

We had an EPIRB on our boat. I believe PLBs were made available just a couple of years ago (except in AK), but the EPIRBs (sea) and ELTs (air) have been around for a while.

If you consider me to be gadget-happy, then I'm guilty as charged. :o

[HenryJ]

A couple new additions to my "Bugout Bag".

The Airfoil kite has no sticks and fits in a small package with string.

http://www.s-10crewcab.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10006/normal_IMGP0046.JPG (http://www.s-10crewcab.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10006/IMGP0046.JPG)

The kite is made of rip stop material and may be useful as a signaling device for aircraft. The rip-stop fabric and string can be useful in other ways as well.

The next is a UV meter. $20 at Target stores this Oregon Scientific UV meter is a handy gadget. It has a countdown timer, user settable for skin types. It also has time and temperature. Pretty handy for the price I think it is a good addition.

http://www.s-10crewcab.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10006/normal_IMGP0047.JPG (http://www.s-10crewcab.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10006/IMGP0047.JPG)

A couple more things were added on this trip. A set of Bushnell Waterproof 10x42 binoculars. I can't believe I left home with out binoculars :( and a notepad.
I had a chance to use the BlastMatch and Vaseline soaked cotton balls while on the Oregon Coast last week. They really work great!

[j_nigrelli]

for those who "gadget lust" even if it's only in their mind!

http://atwoodknives.blogspot.com/

http://www.kk.org/cooltools/

http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/category/_links_gadget_sites

[LUISJG]

here is a good tool ,,appears to be anyway

http://www.ultimatesurvival.com/product_view.cfm?product_ID=427

[erin]

Also for good survival tips and items, www.dougritter.com is a very comprehensive site. Aeromedic is another good site for med supplies and good field knives.

[Lynn]

Just a couple of notes I'd like to add:

The emergency blankets - beware of the ultra-packable ones, like this:

http://www.baproducts.com/cl8235.jpg

When I was on the alpine SAR team in CO I heard several stories of guys who had had them stashed away for years, pulled 'em out, opened 'em up, and found that the aluminized coating had stuck together, and come off. What they were left with was a sheet of clear plastic. Not good if you are depending on it for warmth. If you have some of them, I suggest you get them out periodically, open them up, and make sure they are still serviceable. Also, the reflective coating only helps with radiant heat loss, not conductive or convective heat loss, so you still need an insulating layer between your body and the blanket.

I personally like the ones like this:

http://www.campsaver.com/images/product_med/allweatherblankets.jpg

They're a lot larger to carry, but will be there when you need them, and have some insulation built in. I've also seen a model that has a hood and hand pockets built in. Seems like a good idea. I have one that's blaze orange on one side, for signaling purposes.

Someone above mentioned the Vaseline-soaked cotton balls. They really work great. A few of those in an old film or pill container, along with a 'metal match' or magnesium fire starter, and you're set. However, I noticed that if you put too much Vaseline on the cotton balls they don't light very easily. Play around with 'em when you make 'em, and find out what works best with your flint or striker.

And a note on the MREs mentioned above: It is illegal to mail them with the 'heater,' which means that any you buy mail order do not have it. Most of the ones I've seen in the surplus stores do not have the heater. They great when hot, and can be eaten cold, but I think there are better options than cold MREs.

PowerBars are great, unless you're out in the cold, then they get so hard as to be un-eatable. Of course, you can stick 'em down your pants to warm them up, but Clif and Peak bars are much better in cold weather, besides just plain tasting better. I like the Clif bars, myself.

A good rain poncho (like the mil surplus ones) can double as a tarp for an emergency shelter. Make sure you have some cord for guys. (added: to seal up the hood, pull the drawstring, then roll it from the top of the hood, down. When you get it rolled up, fold it in thirds and tie it with the drawstring. Just like closing up a drybag.)

Of course, as mentioned, you want some way to purify water (iodine tablets at the minimum), but a little Gatorade powder makes it go down better, and helps replace the electrolytes you are sure to loose when you get diarrhea from the 'purified' water. Better yet, get some Pedialyte powder.

And don't forget the toilet paper :)

[Lynn]

btw, I second the 'meat between your ears' comment above.

I was on a search outside of Woodland Park for a guy that was out playing on a 4-wheeler that didn't return to camp. We were worried, 'cuz he had recently moved from CA, it was early Spring (so got pretty cold that night), and he reportedly didn't even have a jacket.

When we found him the next morning, he was a little hungry and thirsty, but had slept warm. Turns out he sayed near his broken quad (just like you're supposed to), and found a big pine tree. He scraped all the pine needles he could find into a great big pile and dived in. He said he slept toasty. He must have slept well, because we found his quad about 1 AM, and there were searchers in the area the rest of the night, but he slept through it!

[MountainBiker]

He scraped all the pine needles he could find into a great big pile and dived in. He said he slept toasty.
That is my idea of how I would use the emergency blanket. But I carry a space emergency BAG instead of a blanket.
http://gearx.com/product_info.php?products_id=2059

Seems like it would be easier with the bag instead of the blanket to cover it up with leaves and pine needles, while still remaining dry with no wind drafts. And besides, you want the reflective material next to your body anyway.

[overlander]

I believe another good inventory and packing method for a bug out bag is to use modular packing. In any environment you travel, and for any season, there will be differences in the packing list as well as quantities required for a taylored optimal equip list. There will however be overlap, maybe to the tune of 80%. Identifying the common condition items lends itself to packing them by purpose and together as a module within the bug out bag, and all conditional items packed modularly in seperate containers. One could then theoretically have their bag with the "base" or permanently packed common items, and then have seperate modules for summer, winter, desert, ocean, jungle, etc, and prior to the beginning of a trip or season, modify your load appropriately and be "optimized"

Your thoughts?

[Lynn]

And besides, you want the reflective material next to your body anyway.

Therein lies the problem. It has to be next to your skin, but is only effective against radiant heat loss. It does nothing for conductive heat loss. Anywhere it touches your skin, heat will conduct through it. During SAR training I've been involved with, some trainees would lay the 'victim' on a space blanket on the snow. The 'victim' can immediately feel the heat loss due to conduction.

They are also not 'breathable,' so perspiration will collect on the inside, and get you wet. The last thing you want to do is put a space blanket over your down sleeping bag...

I personally think that they are only really useful as a windbreak and vapor barrier, not as a 'blanket.'

But marathon runners wrap up in them after a race, and feel warm, right? Well, at that point the runner is putting out a lot of perspiration and radiant heat. The space blanket reflects most of the radiant heat and keeps the breeze from evaporating the sweat, so the runner feels warm.

On the other hand, if you are lost and cold, conductive and convective heat losses are bigger factors than radiant heat loss.

Space blankets are light, cheap, and small, so what's the harm in throwing one in, right? Maybe I'm making a big deal of this, but I really worry that putting one in a survival kit gives a false sense of security. If you are packing something to help keep you warm in an emergency, pack something that works.

[Lynn]

I believe another good inventory and packing method for a bug out bag is to use modular packing.
Your thoughts?

I think that's a great idea.

I've done this somewhat with ziplocks, and read a suggestion somewhere to use stuff sacks marked with a sharpie.

Oh, and that reminds me, several people have suggested carrying a pencil and paper. That's a tried and true recommendation, but a sharpie is more useful than a pencil. I like the new Sharpie Mini in good ole black.

[ZooJunkie]

I have a fire starter kit that no one has mentioned.

Magnesium flint and a wad of steel wool. Strike the flint against the steel wool. Burning steel wool is much harder to extinguish in wet weather. Excellent all around fire starter, and much longer lasting and foolproof than a box of waterproof matches. Ultimately more wind resistant too.

[Lynn]

Magnesium flint and a wad of steel wool. Strike the flint against the steel wool.

Again, I'd like to add my $.02...

Use fine (000) steel wool for the best results. Personally, I like the Vaseline and cotton balls better.

Also, I know we are talking about a bag to take when you abandon your vehicle, but if you are still near your vehicle, or happen to have a large lantern battery, stretch the steel wool between the battery posts and it will light right up. The old Boy Scout books say that two D-cells will work, but I never could get it to.

[ZooJunkie]

Again, I'd like to add my $.02...

Use fine (000) steel wool for the best results. Personally, I like the Vaseline and cotton balls better.

Also, I know we are talking about a bag to take when you abandon your vehicle, but if you are still near your vehicle, or happen to have a large lantern battery, stretch the steel wool between the battery posts and it will light right up. The old Boy Scout books say that two D-cells will work, but I never could get it to.
Yup! Forgot to mention the grade of steel wool. thanks!

[Lynn]

Here's a little trick I wanted to pass on, as well:

Several people have mentioned the magnesium match. No-one should be without one. Ever. I've used one quite a bit, and refined my technique.

Fire starting basics: You gather your wood (about five times as much as you need), hunt down some good tender, build a 'bird's nest' of coarse tender, put fine tender in the middle, scrape some magnesium into the center of that, put your striker close, scrape your knife edge over the striker, and your follow-through knocks the 'bird's nest' flying... Or at least that's the way it used to go for me. If it didn't go flying, the blow would, at least, knock the magnesium filings out of their neat little pile.

Then I said to myself, I said, "Self, there has to be a better way." So I reversed the striking part of the process. I still hold the striker and knife edge the same way, except instead of pushing the knife edge DOWN with my right hand I pull the striker UP with my left hand, so that the momentum is in a safe direction. Kinda awkward, but it works much better.

Now, can I give my thoughts on 'traditional' (pre-Zippo) fire starting?

Hijack Alert! Hijack Alert!

1. If you know how to use a bow-drill, and want a fire by nightfall, start drilling about 8AM. The old Indian movies make it look like it takes about 3 passes of the bow to get a bon fire. At least SurvivorMan and Bear Grylls make it look a lot tougher, but they still must practice a lot, and bring along their own kiln-dried spindle and hearth. From my experience, picking up sticks in the forest to use, after what seems like an hour of pumping, you get a wisp of smoke. Don't get excited; just keep going. You should be engulfed in smoke before you stop drilling and start looking for that elusive ember. The good thing about a bow drill is that the exercise will keep you warm while you are trying to get that mythical ember (possibly all night). The best luck I've had was way back in my Boy Scout days, using an official Boy Scout bow drill (again, kiln-dried wood). I started three fires during a Saturday Jamboree, and I was completely tuckered. Also, rather than taking the ember to the tender, I place the tender bundle under the 'hearth' of the bow drill, so that once the smoke is rolling all I have to do is pick the whole thing up and start blowing on it, hearth and all.

2. So you want to be a mountain man? Get an old file and break off about 3". This is your steel, and nothing works better. Take it out in the woods and wander around picking up rocks. Keep an eye out for glassy looking rocks like obsidian, quartz, and, of course, flint... Marble even works, but tends to shower pieces of rock along with the sparks. When you find a good looking rock stick it in your pocket, then find half a dozen or so more, just in case. Break them so you have nice sharp edges to work with, but they're still big enough to hang on to. Now test them by striking the sharp edge of the rock against the file, using a glancing blow along the edge of the file. You should, of course, see sparks, but don't hope for the shower of sparks you're used to from your commercial metal match. Next, get yerself an old pint-sized paint can, and put a nail hole in the center of the lid. Gather up a bunch of thin cotton cloth (100% cotton. Old bed sheets work well. New bed sheets work just as well, but don't get caught!), cut the cloth into 3" squares, stack 'em neatly, and put 'em in the can. Put the lid on the can, nice and tight, and throw it in the fire (obviously, you need to plan ahead. If you wait 'til you need a fire, you're not going to have the fire to throw the can in!) and let it bake for a few hours. You should see a thin blue flame shooting out of the nail hole from the hot gasses escaping. Since you are preping this ahead of time, you can throw it in your wood stove overnight, but then you don't get to see that cool flame. After a few hours take the can out of the fire (after the flame goes out, or after the fire burns out), let 'er cool, and open 'er up. You will have a nice pile of charred cloth. Store it some place where it won't get wet. Prep your 'bird's nest' of tender, and set it on the ground beside you. Take another handful of the tender and rub it between your hands so that a bunch of the powdered tender falls in the middle of the bird's nest. Kneel or sit with a piece of the charred cloth on your knee (if you're wearing shorts, I'd put something between your knee and the cloth :) ), and strike the flint against the file in a manner that directs the sparks toward the cloth. If you've done everything right, one of the sparks will 'light' on the cloth long enough, and you will see a small glowing circle on the cloth. Blow lightly on the red circle, and as the circle starts to grow, continue blowing on it as you transfer the cloth to the middle of your 'bird's nest'. Roll the edges up around it, and start blowing through the nest, soft but steady. Hold it up at an angle so that the smoke doesn't make you cry, but not above you where burning embers 'll get ya. As the smoke builds, blow harder. Soon the whole thing will erupt in fire, and you'll find yourself with a handful of burning tender, wondering why you didn't get some firewood ready...

[HenryJ]

I have a fire starter kit that no one has mentioned.

Magnesium flint and a wad of steel wool. Strike the flint against the steel wool. Burning steel wool is much harder to extinguish in wet weather. Excellent all around fire starter, and much longer lasting and foolproof than a box of waterproof matches. Ultimately more wind resistant too.Would that work soaked in Vaseline? I would have a problem with the steel wool rusting if exposed to moisture, if not treated in some way or sealed very well in an airtight container. Especially in long term storage.
The Vaseline soaked cotton balls could also have some firstaid uses. I like multiple applications for a packed item. Thus reducing load and maximizing resources.


here is a good tool ,,appears to be anyway

http://www.ultimatesurvival.com/product_view.cfm?product_ID=427
That has the Blastmatch I use. It sends an awesome shower of sparks easily with one hand. I could not justify the rest of it. Vaseline soaked cotton balls seemed much more cost effective. The mirror, whistle and cable saw are items that I would rather hand choose. The cable saw I would want to try before purchase as they can be really lousy. I'd rather have a good axe.

[ZooJunkie]

Place them in 35mm film canisters and some oil to coat. Some guys use to spray them down w/ WD40!

[Lynn]

Would that work soaked in Vaseline?

Hmmm, never tried that. Personally, I'm happy with the cotton balls and Vaseline. Steel wool burns pretty fast. But maybe the Vaseline would slow it down. The cotton balls burn kinda like a candle, (the cotton acts as a wick) but with more flame.

[j_nigrelli]

anybody ever use dryer lint? that'll burn pretty well (don't ask...)

[calamaridog]

PowerBars are great, unless you're out in the cold, then they get so hard as to be un-eatable. Of course, you can stick 'em down your pants to warm them up, but Clif and Peak bars are much better in cold weather, besides just plain tasting better. I like the Clif bars, myself.

I think those really dense bars suck. You need to drink about a quart of water for each one you eat. Not an ideal food source in many survival situations. The bars that are more like regular food are much more practical, in my opinion.

[calamaridog]

Another thought is to keep your pack as a dedicated Survival Sack, don't use its contents for general use. This may mean purchasing two or three of something like a headlamp or flashlight. If you only have one headlamp and you keep it in your Survival Sack but then take it out to use it for general purposes you then need to remember to put it back in the pack and that is a risk of forgetting.

I think this is key if you want to keep an actual dedicated "bug-out bag". You have to remember to repack every year with fresh food, batteries, etc.

LED flashlights and headlamps that use AAA or AA batteries are great for this type of bag. Rechargeable flashlights and ones using fancy batteries are not as practical.

I keep one general survival bag ready for my wife and kid and another with ammunition, holster, etc. for her use.

I keep a work bag with all my police equipment handy. When I use something it is immediately replaced.

I keep two dayhiking bags with essentials handy in the truck. When I use something, I replace it. One is for longer trips, one is for short runs/hikes/bike rides.

[big sky trapper]

2. So you want to be a mountain man? Get an old file and break off about 3". This is your steel, and nothing works better. Take it out in the woods and wander around picking up rocks. Keep an eye out for glassy looking rocks like obsidian, quartz, and, of course, flint... Marble even works, but tends to shower pieces of rock along with the sparks. When you find a good looking rock stick it in your pocket, then find half a dozen or so more, just in case. Break them so you have nice sharp edges to work with, but they're still big enough to hang on to. Now test them by striking the sharp edge of the rock against the file, using a glancing blow along the edge of the file. You should, of course, see sparks, but don't hope for the shower of sparks you're used to from your commercial metal match. Next, get yerself an old pint-sized paint can, and put a nail hole in the center of the lid. Gather up a bunch of thin cotton cloth (100% cotton. Old bed sheets work well. New bed sheets work just as well, but don't get caught!), cut the cloth into 3" squares, stack 'em neatly, and put 'em in the can. Put the lid on the can, nice and tight, and throw it in the fire (obviously, you need to plan ahead. If you wait 'til you need a fire, you're not going to have the fire to throw the can in!) and let it bake for a few hours. You should see a thin blue flame shooting out of the nail hole from the hot gasses escaping. Since you are preping this ahead of time, you can throw it in your wood stove overnight, but then you don't get to see that cool flame. After a few hours take the can out of the fire (after the flame goes out, or after the fire burns out), let 'er cool, and open 'er up. You will have a nice pile of charred cloth. Store it some place where it won't get wet. Prep your 'bird's nest' of tender, and set it on the ground beside you. Take another handful of the tender and rub it between your hands so that a bunch of the powdered tender falls in the middle of the bird's nest. Kneel or sit with a piece of the charred cloth on your knee (if you're wearing shorts, I'd put something between your knee and the cloth :) ), and strike the flint against the file in a manner that directs the sparks toward the cloth. If you've done everything right, one of the sparks will 'light' on the cloth long enough, and you will see a small glowing circle on the cloth. Blow lightly on the red circle, and as the circle starts to grow, continue blowing on it as you transfer the cloth to the middle of your 'bird's nest'. Roll the edges up around it, and start blowing through the nest, soft but steady. Hold it up at an angle so that the smoke doesn't make you cry, but not above you where burning embers 'll get ya. As the smoke builds, blow harder. Soon the whole thing will erupt in fire, and you'll find yourself with a handful of burning tender, wondering why you didn't get some firewood ready...[/QUOTE]

Heres some pic's to go with that....
http://www.outtasightcustomcamo.net/resources/_wsb_150x137_char+uncooked.JPGhttp://www.outtasightcustomcamo.net/resources/_wsb_148x144_char+grill.JPGhttp://www.outtasightcustomcamo.net/resources/_wsb_158x130_char+cooking.JPGhttp://www.outtasightcustomcamo.net/resources/_wsb_254x203_flintsteel.JPGhttp://www.outtasightcustomcamo.net/resources/SPARKS+2.JPG
http://www.outtasightcustomcamo.net/resources/fire+4.JPGhttp://www.outtasightcustomcamo.net/resources/_wsb_274x190_fire+6.JPG



Step by step on making Char cloth. The best char material I found so far is 30 cal military cleaning 2 1/2 sq or so patches. their a cotton/linen blend thats holds a spark unlike anything and burn slow but do they burn hot!. try em. (side note...Cannot find any historical documentation on its use....) But its accepted. If your getting flames comming out the can slow down the cooking....

The beginings of my AMM/MT Freetrappers educational project....

[offroad_nomad]

Yes, when we teach fire building during our winter survival field exercises, dryer lint is one of the fire staring materials we instruct students to use.


anybody ever use dryer lint? that'll burn pretty well (don't ask...)

[Grim Reaper]

I have most of this stuff in my truck but not in one spot. Where I wheel its not likely I will ever fall through the ice and other then fire I can't see needing to get it out super fast.

My last truck I had a back pack strapped to the back of the passenger seat. The seat swiveled so it wasn't in the way of people getting in the back seat. It contained a waterproof first aid kit, flash light, maps, a couple rain ponchos and a couple rain suits (the real thin ones) and a survival knife with matches in the waterproof handle.

This truck just doesn't have the room to hang it on the seat but I really should make a place for it up front and start using it again.

[SEREvince]

I might have mentioned that I am a SERE Specialist for the USAF. That's Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape. I've taught at the Arctic, Water and Combat Survival Schools for about 10 years combined and have been running "refresher" type training for the last 3 years. http://www.gosere.com/

I've tested just about every survival item under the sun all over this planet. We continually seek out the latest and greatest to see how it holds up. If you have questions on specific items, post em up. If I have used it I'll let you know what my professional opinion is.

Most of your kits look pretty good. I would add a wool or poly pro watch cap to everyone’s list. Also some water purification chemical, whatever floats your boat. Also several semi transparent trash bags for vegetation/transpiration bags. A long burning candle is great as well.

Sat out a high desert spring snow storm wrapped in a casualty blanket (nice space blanket) with a long burning candle lit underneath me (think tiny one man tee pee/sweat lodge). Kept toasty warm and dry with no prep.

The stuff from Ultimate Survival and Equipped is all good kit.

My own personal carry knife is the larger Doug Ritter Benchmade folder. http://www.equipped.com/rsk_mk1.htm

The blast match from ultimate survival does have a known flaw the small striker routinely goes AWOL. Still works with a knife you just lose the one handed function. I personally don't like it since unless you have a solid platform you end up crushing your tinder into the ground/snow. http://www.ultimatesurvival.com/product_view.cfm?product_line_ID=156

Learn/practice all of the primitive fire making methods... and then leave them all at home and bring some waterproof strike anywhere matches, lighter and "metal match". I can and have made fires using any primitive method you have heard of and then some, and a lighter will smoke all of em. If you apply the principles you learned when you made your bamboo fire saw or whatever to every fire then that lighter and matches will last through more fires than you'll build in a life time.

My advice is keep the basics on your person and then equip a bag with your normal kit. Don't go overboard and don't count on anything that isn't on your person.

Sat phones are cool, but I have been left high and very dry by them in the past. Make sure you program in the pertinent numbers i.e. rescue agencies in the area or if overseas consulates, embassies, ICRC etc.

Oh and for you gadget folks, word from other SERE Specialists is that visible (green) lasers are awesome for night time signaling. I haven't tested it but other folks are already packing them. Cool idea for when fire isn't possible.http://store.nexternal.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp?CS=jmm6360&BusType=BtoC&Count1=163784205&Count2=80924630&ProductID=52&Target=products%2Easp

Cheers

Vince

[teotwaki]

I keep my lighter on a neck lanyard with a whistle, chapstick and sometimes a compass. In cold weather the lighter will be kept warm enough to function well.

[robert]

Honestly, the best fire starter out there is an old fashion road flare; I keep several in my truck and in my kits. Orion makes/used to make(?) small flares listed as emergency fire starters for just this purpose.

When your bow man tips the canoe over in near freezing river water and you drag it to the shore the last thing you want to be doing is futzing with matches, lighters, flints, etc. (honestly, he tipped it over not me I promise). Take your shaky handed freezin' self and gather whatever wood you can grab (wet or dry, just not completely soaked), pile it up, strike the Fusee and stick it in the middle of the pile- it will light it. They are much, much easier to light with numb hands than any small lighter, etc and they immediately give off lots of heat. You just have to be careful not to burn yourself.

Yes, I also keep several fire starting methods handy for non-emergencies. I personally like my Brunton Helios lighter- much easier than a Hershey bar and a Coke can (yes, you can start a fire that way!).

[Lynn]

I personally like my Brunton Helios lighter

Have you had good luck with that? Several years ago in CO I played around with a several different 'stormproof' lighters. With each one I had to futz around with it everytime I changed altitudes, and none of them worked at all above about 8K'.

[Lynn]

I would add a wool or poly pro watch cap to everyone’s list.

Very good point. I, personally, like the multi-function ones that can funtion as a hat/hood/balaklava/neck warmer.

[robert]

Have you had good luck with that? Several years ago in CO I played around with a several different 'stormproof' lighters. With each one I had to futz around with it everytime I changed altitudes, and none of them worked at all above about 8K'.

I can't say as I've used it at altitude. I've only used it on the east coast and mainly keep it with my kayaking/canoing stuff. I've heard of folks having issues with butane stoves so I can see where there could be a problem.

Zippo has out a new butane lighter that is getting good reviews but I haven't seen one yet. I don't like regular Zippos as you always have to worry about them going dry.

[BMAN]

This thread is a great read. Can't believe I missed it for so long.

One of my favorite "Lurking" sites is the Hoodlum forums at www.survival.com

There's SOOOOO much good info over there that I'll spend hours at a time just sitting and reading. I've gleaned many a good idea from there and they've got an entire board devoted to Bug Out Bags and their contents.

[Linus Tremaine]

My first aid kit includes a duplicate of everything in the sardine can, but I still carry two of them. One is in the first aid kit and one hangs out in the front of the truck and I try to take it with me whenever I go somewhere.


http://www.x-tremegeek.com/templates/SearchDetail.asp?productID=11496

[j_nigrelli]

and don't forget the Maya Dust...

http://www.x-tremegeek.com/templates/SearchDetail.asp?productID=11439&ta=detail_img&pi=Y&st=2

i'll bet that provides some interesting visions for chat around the old campfire!

[BigAl]

I'd add cash to any list, it can't buy love, but you don't need love when you stuck, broke or hurt.:) I always try to carry a couple hundred bucks when I wander far from home. I use plastic when ever I can and keep the cash in reserve.

[Colorado Ron]

I'd add cash to any list, it can't buy love, but you don't need love when you stuck, broke or hurt.:) I always try to carry a couple hundred bucks when I wander far from home. I use plastic when ever I can and keep the cash in reserve.


Id add that you keep it in SMALL bills. You dont want to depend on people for change or show them $100 bills(sometimes a safety issue).

[TeriAnn]

It has been an interesting thread & I've learned at lot, esp. about the so called thermal blankets. All good stuff to know. Thanks everyone.

I try not to travel into dangerous places and have an active phobia of heights so tend to stay away from places where my Land Rover is remotely likely to roll. But things break and you can get good and stuck.

My strategy is to stay with my Land Rover Dormobile if at all possible and signal for help. It is a fairly complete 4X4 RV with built in 15 gallon water tank and 5 gallon propane tank. On trips I keep a full 3 gallon water container on the roof rack along with a spare propane tank in case I run out of either on the trail. I also have a signal kit with assorted flares, radio and a battery powered strobe with spare batteries to run at night. On the trail I almost always have 3 meals worth of food for at least 3 days and much more if I've recently filled the fridge & larder.

Space is always a premium in a Land Rover so I choose to have one set of gear that I use daily when camping instead of having that plus packing a second set for bug out . I feel I'll almost always be best off staying with my Land Rover. Even on a day trip it has food, water and heat.

That said I do have an red orange day pack that I keep up front for day walks out of sight from the Land Rover that has emergency stuff, for just in case. I've tried to keep it light weight since a pack left behind is totally useless.

In the rear pouch I have two one quart plastic drinking bottles. In the main compartment I have:

* Orange plastic distress signal flag
* Portable battery powered strobe
* signal mirror
* whistle
* Orange polyethylene emergency tube shelter
* spool of twine
* knife
* 2 canned heat fuel sources (good for 4 hours each)
* tube of fire paste for starting fires
* water proof container containing water proof matches
* Water proof container that carries:
o pair of heavy wool socks
o Yellow rip stop nylon hooded wind breaker
o Yellow rip stop nylon pants
o Bright orange vest (I want to be seen if I need help)
* Waterproof container with a first aid kit containing:
o Roll of 1 inch stretch gauze bandage
o Telfa pads
o Roll of 1 inch tape
o Scissors
o Tweezers
o Cold pack
o Bottle of Advil
o Bottle of water purification tablets
o Antiseptic swabs
o Antiseptic cream
o Knuckle bandages
o Band-Aids
o butane lighter

I wanted enough to fall in the water or get caught in a rain then safely survive overnight and to be easily found if I got lost. It is not a serious bug out bag but it is about as bulky as I'm willing to carry in a day walk from the vehicle and the water makes it as heavy as I want to carry. A pack left behind because it is too heavy, bulky or awkward is totally useless.

The other thing I like to do is leave a note on the drivers seat telling where I intend to go, when I intend to return and that I am carrying a whistle, orange objects and a strobe for after dark signaling.

Thoughts? flaws in my thinking?, something obviously missing? (I have a wrist mounted compass)

[offroad_nomad]

Les used that or something very similar on a recent Amazon Survivorman episode; it worked.


and don't forget the Maya Dust...

http://www.x-tremegeek.com/templates/SearchDetail.asp?productID=11439&ta=detail_img&pi=Y&st=2

i'll bet that provides some interesting visions for chat around the old campfire!

[dieck]

Have you had good luck with that? Several years ago in CO I played around with a several different 'stormproof' lighters. With each one I had to futz around with it everytime I changed altitudes, and none of them worked at all above about 8K'.

I second that. High tech lighters have always failed me at altitude. Bic or matches work best.

[dieck]

I've been pretty big into preparedness and all the corresponding bug out bag stuff.

Here is my practical experience for what it's worth.

1. It is fun to research all the gadgets and toys, but most are impractical to lug around.
2. If its not on your body or within 5 feet at ALL times you probably won't have it when you need it.
3. Bug out bags generally don't work if they are not regularly used. Batteries die, light bulbs break, etc.

I've revised my solution several times and here is what I do today.

1. Have a point and shoot 4x4 as a daily driver. This will pretty much be in the parking lot of wherever I am and can get me into and out of most anywhere. Keep the gas tank more than half full.
1a. Keep necessary tools an spares for repair in the truck (ie belt, headlights, fuses, wrenches, screwdrivers, etc) This can be done pretty weight effectively if you find a good compact tool kit and bring only what you need.
1b. Keep survival gear in the truck up to date, check each month. For me this includes but is not limited to a hennesey hammock, freeze dried food, kelly kettle, compact sleeping bag, knife, lighter, matches, complete first aid kit, firearm, and ammo. This all fits in a hardware store plastic tote in the back of my jeep with the exception of the firearm.
2. in my work backpack (swiss gear) keep meds, light first aid, knife, headlamp, gps, fire starters, water purification, and mini dopp kit, spare batteries. This is VERY compact. This is with me at work and just about everywhere I go. It is low key and untactical looking so it doesn't draw unecessary attention.
3. I keep cash, but I won't tell you where. In america, this is THE BEST survival tool.

I try to use and replentish both kits regularly to keep them top of mind, and familiar. I use them both regularly including shooting and lubing the guns.

[robert]

Here is an example of a well equipped pack. It's extremely expensive so I'd just use the list as a guide. http://dougritter.com/DR-aviator_survival_pak_contents.htm

If you're interested in the subject of survival then Equipped to Survive is a good website. It is heavy on the aviation side but has lots of good info. This isn't a mutant zombies attacking got to get out of Raccoon City type of site but rather real world experience and talk about things like having to ditch your aircraft, getting stuck offroad, etc.
http://www.equipped.com/


As an aside, I'll have to try the Brunton next time I go up to Mt Mitchell (highest point on this coast). If it doesn't work well there it's not that big of a deal as most of my camping and boating is pretty near sea level.

[rusty_tlc]

Id add that you keep it in SMALL bills. You dont want to depend on people for change or show them $100 bills(sometimes a safety issue).
I would add that it is best to keep $20 in bills in one pocket, and the rest stashed in small lots in different pockets on your person and in your pack. Flashing a roll of twenties isn't always a good idea.

I always try to have some coin change for vending machines and/or phones.

[robert]

A roll of quarters can be real "handy" in an emergency :littlefriend:

(We need a winking smiley too)

[rusty_tlc]

A roll of quarters can be real "handy" in an emergency :littlefriend:

(We need a winking smiley too)
Or nickles or dimes, depends on how big your mitt is.

[NvCruiser]

This is a great thread. A quick word about the emergency blankets, they suck. They are the small compact ones that feel like tin foil. They are not durable enough and tear in the wind very easy. I still carry two in my bag just to stuff inside clothes if need be, but keep them out of weather. I have been in a situation out snowmobiling and needed something for warmth and those are not it. I also carry a set of 100% waterproof rain gear, pants and jacket. I snowmobile and winter tour so if I fall in some water then I can use that for a shell. I also carry a nice fleece top and bottom. If I get wet I can change into that and then the waterproof shell and I'm cozy again. I also carry tampons. So when someone is complaining I toss them one. Just kidding, sort of. Humor has is place in survival too. I do carry them though. Great fire starters. Dip them in a gas can if you have one and they swell up and make a great fire starter. And they have a string attached to aid in this. Should be in every car bag. I will add more later....

[Lynn]

...I also carry tampons. So when someone is complaining I toss them one. Just kidding, sort of. Humor has is place in survival too. I do carry them though. Great fire starters. Dip them in a gas can if you have one and they swell up and make a great fire starter. And they have a string attached to aid in this. Should be in every car bag. I will add more later....

Great point. I carry maxi pads in my first aid kits. Think about it: cheap, super absorbent, steril, and designed to soak up blood...

After a bike accident I offered one to my buddy, but he decided he'd rather have blood streaming down his face ;)

[Otto Von Squiggy]

A great thread thanks, Just had one comment. about every 2 years go through and make sure that everything works and all the medication/First aid stuff you have is in date. I was just revamping 3 of my first aid kits and discovered that ALL the iodine prep pads, medicated wipes etc. were dry and cracked as well as being 3 years out of date. it cost me 20$ to replace the miscelanious parts and swabs that I needed. on a side note I have had some glow sticks since about 1995 I think, I had an extra one so I popped it and it lighted right up so I added one to each kit. sometime the shelf life extends past what is on the package.
PS I moved my mother out of her house to another about 2 years ago she had some things that expired in 1983...:oops:
CHECK THE DATES ON YOUR STUFF

[MaddBaggins]

My bag that I carry everytime I go out to the boonies contains
Rain jacket and pants
garbage bag type rain poncho
solar blanket
first aid kit
duct tape wrapped around a pen
full Zippo
compass with mirror
Swiss army knife
small binocs
some 6' lengths of rope
drugs (over the counter kind not illegal)
snake bite kit
2 qts water
Sweetwater filter
4-5 granola bars
bag of nuts
bag of dried fruit
can of sardines or smoked oysters
flashlight
bandana
.45 auto and extra clip or the .357 and a handful of extra bullets

All of that fits well into my Jansport daypack with room to spare. I always wear my Danner boots when I'm out also. Not flip flops or tennis shoes. My hat is either on my head or on the dashboard.

[MaddBaggins]

I'd like to add that I've used my old school Zippo at altitudes approaching 11k and it worked just as well as it does at 2k. Yes they do dry up, but if you have a bug out bag you should regularly check it out anyway and make sure all your junk is in it and working. Or just get a small bottle of Ronsonal and toss it in the pack.

If your'e in a pine forest, the best fire wood is the knotted branch ends and the gnarly roots of Ponderosa pine trees. Especially if you can get the stinky, reddish pink root wood. That stuff will light up like you wouldn't believe and burn hot. It also throws a lot of black smoke. Get some of that wood, shave it into splinters and shavings and use that for your fire starter, then put larger chunks of it on and watch it burn.

[Streakerfreak]

Great point. I carry maxi pads in my first aid kits. Think about it: cheap, super absorbent, steril, and designed to soak up blood...

After a bike accident I offered one to my buddy, but he decided he'd rather have blood streaming down his face ;)

I carry maxi pads too. But for my fiance. It's hard enough to deal with her when it's that time of month. I could not imagine being stuck someplace at that time of month. I carry enough for 4 months.

[offroad_nomad]

Just remember, don't put the sticky side on the wound, use the other side.

We were doing some first aid/trauma training and one of our "victims" had a head wound. A teammate dug out one of his feminine hygene pads and stuck it to the head wound. Satisfied with his quick handy work, he moved on to triage another. I've got a picture somewhere of our "victim" walking around after with the pad stuck to his forehead and a dumb look on his face. :xxrotflma



Great point. I carry maxi pads in my first aid kits. Think about it: cheap, super absorbent, steril, and designed to soak up blood...

[alpha_nett]

this is my post-military civilian survival bag. i keep this stuff in my pack plus food and clothes on any kind of trip. the aid bag i wouldnt carry on a hike, just pack a few more medical things in the main pack. i am trying to be more organized with my truck packed stuff. i will be making a few bags that just stay in the truck, with all of my crap in them.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c279/alpha_nett/trucks/house001-1.jpg
sorry about the small text. bad planing on my part. if you really want to see the labeling, save the picture and you can zoom in. it will come in clear. i tired it.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c279/alpha_nett/trucks/house005-1.jpg
i think some important survival items are:
Navigation(compass{3 in my pack},map, GPS)
Medical(even if its just band-aids)
Protection(gun,mace, condom) at one of them
Communication(i will have a handheld CB soon)
A good plan
and some kind of blade

[Streakerfreak]

this is my post-military civilian survival bag. i keep this stuff in my pack plus food and clothes on any kind of trip. the aid bag i wouldnt carry on a hike, just pack a few more medical things in the main pack. i am trying to be more organized with my truck packed stuff. i will be making a few bags that just stay in the truck, with all of my crap in them.



Wow!:Wow1:

You just got my wheels spinning. Going to start adding to my stuff.
The pics work great. Thanks.

Oh what are those two things next to the pistol?

[alpha_nett]

Wow!:Wow1:

You just got my wheels spinning. Going to start adding to my stuff.
The pics work great. Thanks.

Oh what are those two things next to the pistol?

i think that you are talking about the red and black square things?? well, they are the same, one is just turned over. they are clip on red safety lights. with like 5 different blinking options and a fulltime on mode. good for the dogs collar, or night hiking(for you or the camp)

can anyone read my little text on the pictures. if not i will make a list of it all.

[Streakerfreak]

i think that you are talking about the red and black square things?? well, they are the same, one is just turned over. they are clip on red safety lights. with like 5 different blinking options and a fulltime on mode. good for the dogs collar, or night hiking(for you or the camp)

can anyone read my little text on the pictures. if not i will make a list of it all.

Ah okay. I have stuff like that. Yeah I tried zooming in and it was too blurry. Most of the stuff there you just need a little common sense to know what you are looking at though. So no biggie.

[Mc Taco]

Great thread. Lots off good information and ideas. Living here in Southern California I always keep an earthquake kit in my truck. Contains most all of the above mentioned items in a pack. Can beat feet if need be, but would rather stay with the truck. Transportation and shelter all in one. The 'BIG ONE' is coming. Would hate to be in West L.A. wearing loafers when it hits.
BTW, What's it like to live in a state where you can legally carry a weapon (in your vehicle) to protect yourself.

[alpha_nett]

Great thread. Lots off good information and ideas. Living here in Southern California I always keep an earthquake kit in my truck. Contains most all of the above mentioned items in a pack. Can beat feet if need be, but would rather stay with the truck. Transportation and shelter all in one. The 'BIG ONE' is coming. Would hate to be in West L.A. wearing loafers when it hits.
BTW, What's it like to live in a state where you can legally carry a weapon (in your vehicle) to protect yourself.

you can carry a rifle or shotgun in your vehicle in California if they are not loaded. and a pistol if its in a closed case. i put the ammo in the bottom center compartment. when i go up in the sticks the pistol comes out of the case though.
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/travel.php
go to this site and print this page and keep it with your truck. it says nothing about where the ammo must be. so i keep my ammo loaded it the magazine and in easy reach.

[Mc Taco]

alpha_nett,
Thanks for the link. I've got to get a locked case for the Sig. Don't want to have to pick up trash along side the freeway.
:gunt:

[seriessearcher]

When i was in boy scouts we would make a miny blade / saw out of a hack saw blade. You can cut it down to 2/3 length. Sharper one side with a grinder to have an edge, the blade side remains untouched. Wrap a handle with duct tape and you have a cheap solution to a saw / blade. Most multi tools have a blade / saw, but this insures you keep it with the kit and do not use it / misplace it. These can be had for pennies, so easy to replace and experiment with.

Other than that great thread with great advice and resources.

[teotwaki]

you can carry a rifle or shotgun in your vehicle in California if they are not loaded. and a pistol if its in a closed case. i put the ammo in the bottom center compartment. when i go up in the sticks the pistol comes out of the case though.
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/travel.php
go to this site and print this page and keep it with your truck. it says nothing about where the ammo must be. so i keep my ammo loaded it the magazine and in easy reach.

Pretty sure that here in Kalifornia that a loaded magazine is considered tantamount to a loaded weapon even when out of the weapon, despite what the law actually says

California Penal Code Section 626.9 excerpted

For purposes of this section, a firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm. A muzzle-loader firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder

I know it says ".... attached to the firearm" but maybe leave an empty one in the weapon and keep the loaded one far away?

From the CHP website

I will be traveling to California and want to carry my weapon. I currently have a concealed weapon permit. How can I legally transport my weapon while driving through the state?

California law does not recognize concealed weapon permits from other states; therefore, they would not be held valid. If you wish to transport a handgun during your California visit, it should be carried unloaded in a locked container. In the absence of a suitable container, you may secure the unloaded handgun in the locked trunk of a passenger car. Ammunition may be kept in the same container or trunk, but the handgun must remain unloaded with no rounds in the cylinder and no loaded magazines in the magazine well.

If you have additional questions, contact the California Department of Justice at 916-227-3703.

[j_nigrelli]

make sure you give them your name, address, & driver's license number...

[alpha_nett]

Pretty sure that here in Kalifornia that a loaded magazine is considered tantamount to a loaded weapon even when out of the weapon, despite what the law actually says

California Penal Code Section 626.9 excerpted

For purposes of this section, a firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm. A muzzle-loader firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder

I know it says ".... attached to the firearm" but maybe leave an empty one in the weapon and keep the loaded one far away?

From the CHP website

I will be traveling to California and want to carry my weapon. I currently have a concealed weapon permit. How can I legally transport my weapon while driving through the state?

California law does not recognize concealed weapon permits from other states; therefore, they would not be held valid. If you wish to transport a handgun during your California visit, it should be carried unloaded in a locked container. In the absence of a suitable container, you may secure the unloaded handgun in the locked trunk of a passenger car. Ammunition may be kept in the same container or trunk, but the handgun must remain unloaded with no rounds in the cylinder and no loaded magazines in the magazine well.

If you have additional questions, contact the California Department of Justice at 916-227-3703.

this seems pretty clear, piston to be in a locked container, unloaded, both the chamber and the magazine. no real laws on ammunition storage. but i have always heard to keep them stored separate. i think it is a good rule of thumb.

i would think to keep a weapon "visually" unloaded, having the slide locked to the rear and no magazine in it would be best. having the piston like this and in a locked container, with the ammo stored separately, i would imagine be legal in all 50 states.

[JeepinBear]

Hello all,

I'm very new to the forum and I have to say, I really like what I've seen so far. I'm simply amazed at the level of information, camaraderie, and dedication everyone is showing.

I'm an ex USAF aircrew member who was lucky enough to attend survival training in WA. Some things just stuck with me. I'm also a gadget nut and my wife calls me "Mr. Spreadsheet" as I tend to be way overly organized.

I've attached a list (.pdf) :coffee: that I use as a generic survival equipment list. I also plan on joining a local SAR outfit and most of this stuff is "required" by NASAR.

I also maintain a list for my Jeep that includes recovery gear, etc but that is probably for another thread.

Keep up the great work everyone! The is a VERY valuable source of information!
27486

[Scott Brady]

Thanks for posting the list Patrick.

I had fun doing the Ditch Bag article in the latest issue of Overland Journal.

[tdesanto]

That's a pretty extensive list. Thanks for posting that up.

Now, I want to see the size of the bag that holds all of that stuff. Any photos?


Hello all,

I'm very new to the forum and I have to say, I really like what I've seen so far. I'm simply amazed at the level of information, camaraderie, and dedication everyone is showing.

I'm an ex USAF aircrew member who was lucky enough to attend survival training in WA. Some things just stuck with me. I'm also a gadget nut and my wife calls me "Mr. Spreadsheet" as I tend to be way overly organized.

I've attached a list (.pdf) :coffee: that I use as a generic survival equipment list. I also plan on joining a local SAR outfit and most of this stuff is "required" by NASAR.

I also maintain a list for my Jeep that includes recovery gear, etc but that is probably for another thread.

Keep up the great work everyone! The is a VERY valuable source of information!

[JeepinBear]

I'll have to make sure I read the article Scott. (I'm still learning about all the resources as I'm still new to all of this).

tdesanto: With the exception of the items listed in their own bags (supplemental gear, Special packs, etc) all of it fits in one Tactical Vest with a small (1900cu in) backpack attached to the back.

No pics yet...I'll have to get some and post them. I can grab it quick and throw it in the back of the jeep before I go, in an emergency I can be in "survival mode" in a flash.

I've attached my Jeep list as well that shows the other "survival" type items I keep in the back (they are at the bottom of the list).
27487

It never hurts to be prepared, but it can hurt when you're not!

[teotwaki]

Hello all,

I'm very new to the forum and I have to say, I really like what I've seen so far. I'm simply amazed at the level of information, camaraderie, and dedication everyone is showing.

I'm an ex USAF aircrew member who was lucky enough to attend survival training in WA. Some things just stuck with me. I'm also a gadget nut and my wife calls me "Mr. Spreadsheet" as I tend to be way overly organized.

I've attached a list (.pdf) :coffee: that I use as a generic survival equipment list. I also plan on joining a local SAR outfit and most of this stuff is "required" by NASAR.

I also maintain a list for my Jeep that includes recovery gear, etc but that is probably for another thread.

Keep up the great work everyone! The is a VERY valuable source of information!

The green laser "flare" is on my wish list too!!! :D

[RHINO]

i had a big ditch bag, but saw the rediculousness of it all. as it sits now all my ditch stuff fits in a small travel shaving kit bag. it goes in a camelback day pack with a military poncho, large knife, headlamp and water purifyer.

its all the same stuff i carry on a multi night backpack trip less the food, cooking stuff, clothes, sleeping bag and tent.

my needs may differ from someone in a different climate, or a different country. i figure i will be at or near my truck so this stuff wont even really come into play, if something happens while on a day hike i wont be more than that far from the truck either, so even the worst case scenario in my world i'll only be away from the truck for one nite.

but what if i loose the truck? what if i get injured and cant walk back to the truck? well thats what my wife is for, she knows where i went and when i'll be back,,, the basics i keep in the bag will keep me fine till help arrives. when the truck is found there is a very basic note with direction of travel and approximate route inside to be found. i dont need to eat everyday or change my clothes, just need to stay out of the elements, dry and hydrated.

just to make sure i could do it i spend a w/e on this bag once. i spent a 4 day w/e on the box in the truck. i feel confident in my abilities to stay ok should something happen.

i think if you practice this situation in mock, even overnite in your backyard, you'll have a much better understanding of what you really need.

[JeepinBear]

Hey Rhino...

Trust me, I know this is overkill but that's where the gadget geek side of me kicks in. Almost all of this could be replaced with an EPIRB like the MicroFix which would direct SAR forces right to me within a matter of a few hours.

For my personality, half the fun is collecting the items and "coon-fingering" the gadgets from time to time. I do the same things with my firearms...I DEFINITELY don't need hem all, but they'e nice to have and shoot from time to time.

P.S. "Coon-fingering" if you haven't heard of it is not a perverted term. It simply means handling something like an interested raccoon might :ylsmoke: you get the image in your mind?

[Scott Brady]

Patrick,

Have you ever spent time with the Idaho 4x4 Club? Based out of Boise.

I lived in Idaho for four years.

[RHINO]

hey patrick,, yeah i know excactly where your commin from. i like coon fingering stuff too, especially gadgets and tools. so i understand, and believe me i have a whole mess of stuff that i keep in the truck, i just came to the conclusion that i'm never too far from the truck unless i'm backpacking, and when i'm doing that i have everything i need to be comfy for a fairly long term stay, providing i can find or catch food when mine runs out.
the ditch bag is just a small assortment of must have items that could help me stay comfy for a night if needed, ya know, shelter, fire, and water. honestly if i were really taking an excursion to a place far away form anyone else i would be prepared, but, with a few exceptions its pretty hard to do that in the USA anymore.

[calamaridog]

"The explorer would do well always to have on his person a compass, a light waterproof bag containing matches, a waterproof box of salt, and a strong, light, linen or silk fish-line with several hooks, a knife, and an automatic at his belt, with several loaded magazines for the latter in his pocket. Thus provided, if accidentally lost for several days in the forest, he will be provided with the possibility of getting game and making himself shelter and fire at night."

-Theodore Roosevelt
From "Through the Brazilian Wilderness" 1914

[BiG BoB]

I'm from a slightly different climate, so there'll be some notable exceptions here....

First of all some background.. I spend a good portion of my life exploring for one thing or another (uranium, iron, gold, nickel, lead, zinc) and I often travel / work alone.

I have a bunch of things that live in my backpack, which is always with me, they are:

Water, atleast 2L
Basic 1st aid kit with a few extras (superglue stuff, imodium, water purifying tablets, emergency blanket, paracetamol, ventolin)
Swiss army knife
lighter, electrical tape to waterproof it
electrical and duct tape
Chocolate

That's all I really need... the blanket is more for signaling, and maybe as rain protection as it's doesn't get too cold in northern Aus. There's no reason to ever leave a stranded vehicle.

When I'm not travelling for work I also carry an Epirb, we have a very strict SAR policy/procedure at work and an epirb is not neccessary

Sean

[JeepinBear]

I am familiar with Idaho 4x4 Scott. WHen I first bought my Jeep I had Tony L. (who built a really cool buggy) give me advice on some of the mods. I worked with his wife Roxanne when I lived on thst side of the State. I'm in IF ow and looking for a good group to hang out with. Problem is, more and more of the 4x4 clubs are getting really into rock-crawling and put pressure on the members to do it too. I like more of the trail rides / overlanding.

I have a buddy at work, FLYFISHEXPERT, that has a 4runner and he and I are going to start planning some trips.

Where did you live in Idaho? was it when you were in the USAF?

[Jake5326]

Bail Out/Survival Bag-Kept in my rig for each outing
· 1 ½ day pack w/Camel Back
· $100 Cash and Credit Card
· Docs
· Map
· Phone Card
· 4 season Bivy (Sierra Designs)
· Integral Designs Puffy Suit (Jacket/Pants) in leiu of Sleeping bag
o Or Diamondbacktactical.com Mars puffy Level 7 suit
· Lightweight Rain Suit (Diamondbacktactical Mars)
· REI/Northface/Columbia Zip Pants/longsleeve shirt/dryfit tshirt
· Emergency Blanket
· Storm Lighter (Bruxton)
· Compass w/Mirror (Sunto)
· Garmin Rhino FRS/GPS w/Map Data
· Matches
· Gerber
· Saw
· Nalgene Bottle
· Ziplock of Ramen
· Baby Wipes
· Lip Balm
· Camel Back
· Head Lamp w/Strobe capability (Petzl)
· Xtra Batteries
· 2m Radio
· 10 Power Bars
· Water Purification Tabs
· Med Kit
o Suture Kit
o Imodium
o Ibuprophin
o Cold Packs
o Zpacks
o Bandages
o Bandaids
o Slings
o Chest Seal
o Quick Clot
o Breathing Tube
o IV Needle
o Tweezers
The only thing I update is the water

[FLYFISHEXPERT]

I stole Patrick's spreadsheet format for my list. I keep my 'Bug-Out-Bag' in the 4Runner 24/7 and throw it in my wife's Rav-4 when we take it on trips. I also cary an trauma level First-Aid kit in the 4Runner and a first responder level in the Rav-4.

[Buckru]

I can't really add to what has already been said about a survival bag. I do have a few items that should also be in everyones first aid kits. Benadryl, epi pen and a couple of tampons. Benadryl if you have any sort of allergic reactions. Epi pen as a last resort. I carry one tampon in my backpacking first aid kit and two in my trucks first aid kit. It is an outstanding tool to plug a deep puncture wound. Most first aid kits have supplies for cuts/gashes but not deep punctures.

Buck Buchanan

[JeepinBear]

Never would have thought of the tampons...good idea. Are they sterile? Or does it really matter all that much when you are trying to stop a gusher?

[mattarm]

Maxi-pads also work real well. You can find them in sizes down to about a thick book of matches and super absorbent.

[Shadow-Warrior]

First, it’s important to have or make a plan, keep thinking, lack of is a KILLER. If you just lay down and do nothing, you will die! The best Survival tool everyone has is their BRAIN. THINK! Do not panic, panic kills more people every day than anything else.

I think every human being should be able to build a fire to keep themselves warm, gather food to eat, make a shelter to keep the weather out, find and gather water to keep from dehydrating. Sadly; most people don’t know how to do most these, it’s ashame. We have become very lazy in a world where we only have to flip a switch and we have light, or turn a handle and we have hot water. We have become overly complacent in our modern world on others and devices to make our lives better.


I have three different setups in my vehicle. I have a small “Pocket” survival pouch, a Medium Survival Belt pouch and a Large Survival Style Backpack. Let’s first talk about why 3 different survival systems, each has their own place.




The Pocket Style Survival Pouch




This is a small little complete system that is very compact and very easy to go on a day hike or jump in another vehicle when riding with someone else. It’s not intrusive or doesn’t draw attention to it, but it’s a very complete thought out little system.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z21/shadow-warror/8-5.jpg

1. Carry Pouch
2. Small Folding knife for Heavy Cutting
3. Small Folding Knife without serrations for skining small animals, etc.
4. Magnesium Fire Starter block
5. Tinder
6. Fishing Kit
7. Small S.S. Folding multi Tool
8. Strong Cordage for making shelter
9. Small Button Compass
10. Tin Foil - Water gathering


http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z21/shadow-warror/9-5.jpg

Tinder – Tinder is used for igniting your materials to make a fire. This should be material that will catch a spark very Easley even in wet conditions. I prefer to make my own tinder. I know some like to use lint from the dryer, this will only work if you run ONLY 100% Cotton Materials through the dryer. Other wise your tinder will melt. I use cotton balls with Vaseline. This makes great tinder, it catches a spark very fast and burns even in the rain.

Fishing Kit should be made up of assorted hooks leaders and of course fishing line strong enough to last.




The Belt Worn (Middle Style)



The middle Survival system is in the same category as the above pocket system, it is also very compact but has more tools and gear. This is the one that I move to vehicle to vehicle, I would also take this one with me if riding with someone else on a long trip. It’s larger than the pocket pouch but fit’s nicely on your belt and is more complete.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z21/shadow-warror/10-3.jpg

1. Whistle (Signaling)
2. Tea Lite Candle (Lighting)
3. Instant Tea (Caffeine)
4. Coffee (Caffeine)
5. 100' Galv Steel Wire (Trip Wires, Snares, Building Shelter)
6. Aspirin
7. Instant Coffee
8. Carry Strap for bag
9. Tubing (Drinking or retrieving a shallow water supply)
10. Sugical Tubbing (Sling Shot)
11. Tabasco (MRE's)
12. Signal Flash Mirror
13. US Atlas - I travel all over, this will allow me to see what the highways are.
14. Pocket Poncho (Keeping Dry, gathering Water or making shelter)
15. S.S. Container for main Survival items to be packed in.
16. Main Carry Pouch.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z21/shadow-warror/11-2.jpg

1. S.S. Asian Lunch Box (Container to boil water or cook food in)
2. Cold Steel Knife Very strong and large Pocket knife for making shelter, skinning game, etc.
3. Store Bought Tinder
4. Home Made Tinder (Cotton & Vaseline)
5. Fishing Line
6. Instant Coffee
7. Fishing Line
8. Strong Cordage
9. Bouillon Cubes
10. Sharpening Stone
11. LED Light
12. Button Compass
13. Salt
14. Hiking Compass (Compact)
15. Fishing Kit
16. Strong Cordage (Shelter Making)
17. Iodine for purification of water
18. Snare Making
19. Band Aids (Assort)
20. Platypus Water Storage container w/ Cap
21. Assort Large sewing Needles
22. Blast Match (Fire Starting) This is a great tool for using just one hand if injuried.
23. Knott Tying
24. Hand Chain Saw (Shelter Building)





The Large Vehicle Survival Bag





http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z21/shadow-warror/3-4.jpg

The Large Survival System is not as large as some that I have seen out there. I didn’t want to have to carry a full size backpack with a 150lbs of gear around in my vehicle. I do have a very expensive Expedition backpack which is capable of carrying that type of load. Murphy’s law of backpacking says if you have the room, you will fill it.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z21/shadow-warror/15-3.jpg

The large bag is for extended stays for a major break down in the middle of knowwhere, having to hike out which may take days. This system is more has some of the same exact items as of the smaller bags. I know some will say I'm duplacating items, this is and is not true. Here is why, these are "Sperate" survival packs. I'm not going to grab all three, they each have their own use. Like I stated in the begining. So as you may see the same items in each of the bags, I'm only going to grab one bag and not root through a bunch of bages to make one bag, each one is ready to go. That is how I personaly like it. I do also want to state this is NOT my Vehicle Medical Kit that is carried at all time in the vehicle, it stays with the vehicle and is sperate from these bags. It too has alot of the same items that you would see in any medical bag.

1. Small Hammock (Used for Sleeping, Fishing in a stream, etc.)
2. Military Tritium Compass (Good incase you have to travel at night)
3. Star Flash Signal Mirror (can be seen up to 20 miles away)
4. Hand Chain Saw (Used for shelter making)
5. Small Gerber Camp Axe (Used for Shelter Making)
6. Diamond Sharpener
7. S.S. Cooking pots (Food Prep & Gathering Water)
.....a. Purification Tablets
.....b. Bandana (Water Purification, Keeping sweat off the forehead, tiying off injuries)
.....c. Razor Blades (
.....d. Snake Bite Kit
.....e. Betadine (Wound Cleansing)
.....f. Alcohol (Wound Cleansing)
.....g. Hydrogen Peroxide (Wound Cleansing)
.....h. Small Clear Tubing (Water Gathering)
.....i. Assort Boullion Cubes (Food)
.....j. Small Backup Compass
.....k. 22LR Cleaning Patches
8. Zip lock bag with the following items
.....a. US Army Survival Manual June 1992 Edition - This is a great resourse of information. In an survival situation it's sometimes hard to think clearly due to stress. Having a good resource helps eliminate some of the stress of having to try to remember everything about survival, shelters, wild plants, game catching, etc. This book, has Everything you need to know about survival and then some. There are colored pictures of edible and non-edbile plants, along with different shelter making in the desert, woods, or snow. Its a great resource to have on hand.
.....b. Thompson Self Locking Survival Snares
.....c. Rand McNally Pocket Atlas of the US
.....d. Assorted Heavy Duty Sewing Needles.
9. Full Tang Skining Knife
10. Blast Match
11. Automatic Fishing Reel - This free's you up to work on other tasks.
12. Complete Fishing Kit
13. Tea Light candles
14. Grid for cooking game over fire
15. Small S.S. Shovel (U-Dig-It) carried by park rangers, etc.
16. Survival Tabs - this is a complete 15 day food supply
17. Complete Surgical kit w/ assort size Sutures.
18. Pills
19. Space Blanket
20. S.S. Bailing wire (Shelter making and snares)
21. Duct Tape 50' (Field repairs, etc.)
22. Gerber Tree Saw w Bone Blade)
23. Assort size Sutures
24. Playtapus Water Storage Container
25. Screw Eyelets for Hammock or hainging Game from.
26. Zip lock bag containing the following:
.....a. Cold Pack
.....b. Heat Pack
.....c. Hydrogen Peroxide (Wound Cleansing)
.....d. Betadine (Wound Cleansing)
.....e. Bottle of Aleve for pain
.....f. Tube of Max Strength Tripple anitbiotic
.....g. Repel 100 Insect repellent
.....h. ichthammol Onitment
.....i. Surgical Tape
.....j. Large Wound Dressing
.....k. Large traumma Wound Pad
.....l. assort Buterfly Bandages
.....m. Quik-Clot
.....n. Assort Toilet Paper (from MRE's)

On the outside of the backpack attached to one of the straps is a small red medical pouch that has the following:

1.Military Combat Blanket Olive Drab (Space Blanket)
2. 4"x4" 12 ply Sterile Sponges
3. 3"x3" 12 ply Sterile Sponges
4. Assorted Bandaids
5. Assorted Butterfly Wound Closures
6. Assorted Antiseptic Cleansing Wipes
7. Tounge Depressor
8. Finger splint
9. Aspirin
10. Extra Strength Non Aspirin
11. Ammonia Inhalant
12. Excedrin Extra Strength
13. Tripple antibiotic
14. Ibuprofen
15. Burn Cream
16. Off - Deep Woods Towelettes


There are a couple of other items that I also carry in the vehicle along with the packs to “Compliment” them. Here are those items:

1. Military Poncho – Used for staying dry of course, but also used as a shelter to keep bad weather out, also used to gather rainwater. It can be used for many different situations.

2. Hat – This helps to protect your head from heat and the direct suns rays or in winter helps to keep you warm since the largest % of body heat is lost through your head.

3. Canteen – I carry a couple of 2 quart Military style canteens with me. A five-gallon jug is not practical in a vehicle. This is only good for filling up your vehicles radiator or pouring your water out for drinking. If you have to leave your vehicle and “Hike Out” which could mean days, this is very impractical way to carry your water. This is why I always carry canteens; I can hook them to my belt and walk out anywhere.

4. I also carry in the vehicle my Water Purification setup. It is the high end filter made by PUR. I think it is now being marketed by another company.



http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z21/shadow-warror/17-3.jpg

4. Survival Knife – I don’t want this thread to get into a knife debate, I want to keep this on a basic level of what you will need and the differences of the types of knives that are out there. First off, there are a lot of “so called” Survival Knives on the market. You have the Rambo types that have a hollow handle that is used for storage of matches, fishing kit, etc. These are garbage, stay away from them. A real survival knife has a “Full Tang” this means the blade is one solid piece that goes all the way to the end of the handle.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z21/shadow-warror/5-5.jpg

A survival knife needs to be able to take a lot of abuse, such as chopping, prying, and lots of cutting. Hollow handles are very dangerous. They will not hold up to the type of abuse that a real survival situation would call for. They look cool, but are not made to take the abuse.

There are many good survival knives on the market, some are cheaper than others, but most will hold up to any abuse that you put it through, such as a military K-bar series of knives. These are good quality strong knives that can be picked up just about anywhere. I use an old Gerber Survival knife that was made years ago and is considered to be one of the best knives that they ever made. You can still find them occasionally on e-bay, but they fetch a hefty price. It’s not about cost it’s about quality; you want a tool that you can depend on in a life-threatening situation.

I want to give just a little background history of serrated edges on knives. I know this question will come up. Most people don’t even realize that the serrations on all most 95% of the knives on the market including pocketknives are on the wrong side of the blade. The largest part of the human population is “right” handed. The serrations are made for left handed people, know your asking yourself, why would they do this?

The answer is not what you would expect, they put the serrations on the wrong side so when they advertise the knife taking pictures, they don’t have an ugly clip, on them and they can all be turned and photographed laying the same way.

There are only a few companies that actually make their knives for real use and not to look pretty in picture. Most of these are custom hand made knives such as Mission Knives which make knives for the US Navy SEAL’s. Anyways, which ever knife you choose, be sure it will take the kind of abuse that is needed in a survival situation.

5. Weapons – Again, I don’t want this thread to turn into another gun debate. A weapon is nice in a real survival situation but some may not feel comfortable totting a weapon in their vehicle, that’s fine, for those that do like me, I do consider it a large part of my gear.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z21/shadow-warror/12-3.jpg

A great little survival weapon is a Rugar 10/22, they are fairly cheep and are very well made. They are very accurate also. They don’t take up much room nor does the ammunition. I do carry a large sidearm in my vehicle as most of you that know me know. The 10/22 is a great little weapon for gathering small game on the trail. I have added a S.S. Folding stock to mine to make it more compact for storage. I also stay away from blued weapons for survival and only use Stainless Steel. This helps to keep the weapon from corrosion especially if you live close to the ocean.

6. Another item that can be carried in your vehicle is a small radio wind up type. It takes up very little room and can be of great help and comfort in an emergency situation. These are fairly cheep and are very durable.


http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z21/shadow-warror/7-5.jpg

As in the picture, I keep mine wrapped up in a heavy duty zip lock to keep any water out.

Continued.

[Shadow-Warrior]

I consider myself VERY “Self-Sufficient”. I don’t believe in handouts or depending upon others to help me out in a tight spot. I prefer to blaze my own trail so to speak and not follow the pack mentality. There was a saying when I was in the ARMY, Lead, Follow or get the Hell out of the way! I have always liked that and lived by it.

When putting a gear bag together, it needs to have a balance of items, you can’t be heavy on just medical items, you need to think about food procurement, shelter, water gathering and cleansing, food preparation, navigation, etc. all of these in equal consideration. Yes it would be nice to carry a tent, stove, full size medical bag, etc. But this is unrealistic. Keep the K.I.S.S. principle in front of you. Try not to double up on items, as most of you can see, these items can be used for double duty.

Now with all the above equipment and tools, it's very important that you know how to use these items. Some are easier then other to use. I like the blast match better than other types of fire starting devices because it can be used using only one hand. If your injured, it would be bad if you can't use one hand to start a fire. Most of all the other types of device require you to use two hands. This is why, I prefer the blast match.

FIRE: Fire is used for food preparation. It is also used for keeping warm along with boiling water that may contain organisms in it for drinking. It also keeps away wildlife. It is used for signaling too by throwing some green branches on it will produce dense smoke that can be seen for many miles. But I think a Fire is also best for a good psychological value for moral. Remember were talking about a survival situation. This is a very stressful time.

WATER: Every human needs to drink water, if not death will occur within days, you can go a lot longer without food, but lack of water will kill you quick. It’s important to have a means of purifing, carrying water and retrieving water from natural resources.

SHELTER: You need to be able to make some type of either short term or long-term shelter depending on your geographic region. This can be done using the natural surroundings such as in the desert, rocks. If your in the woods, you can use tree branches, in the snow a snow cave. All of these take time to make and some experience using tools. Take the time to get to know each of the tools.

FOOD: Gathering food can be demanding if your not use to it, there are many different ways to gather food. Again this depend s on your geographically region that your in. You could gather plants, but be careful only pick whish ones that you know are safe to eat. If in doubt, take a tiny piece and place on your tongue, if it burns, spit it out. If it makes your tongue tingly, spit it out. You can trap small game using snares along a game trail. Be careful of snares,, they catch anything, so you don’t know what your going to catch, be ready to kill it quickly and humanly. You can also fish, but it is very time consuming, using auto fishing reels helps if your around a body of water.

I should also point out that depending on what time of year it is, I add and take away from other items that I carry in the vehicle, this includes a Military Extreme Cold Weather Sleeping bag. If I’m up north in Wyoming or Montana or even Minnesota. The temperatures get way down below freezing. We have all seen every year people that freeze to death in their vehicles because of lack of preparation. During the fall, I’ll ad the sleeping bag to the back of the vehicle in case of an emergency.


I use all of the above items from time to time, it's important to familiarize yourself with these items, don’t wait until an emergency to try to learn how to use a particular piece or tool. This is not the time to find out it doesn’t work when confronted with a serious life-threatening situation. I hope this information helps some of you, everyone has different opinions on what to carry, this is my opinion only. I have lived off the land for months on end over the years. I have tried a lot of different products and some work, while others do not. This is why, I like to put together my own equipment.

I hope some of you can come away with some useful information. :)

[Rezarf <><]

WOw, I just learned a lot from your last posts! Thanks!

Drew

[1leglance]

Hey Shadow since the thread on fjcruiserforums got deleted I will add my thoughts here….hopefully this one won’t turn ugly….
I see you made some changes in your commentary or there are things I missed the first time, either way I still feel the same on a number of issues…

The basic rule of 3’s is something to keep in mind…..
3 hours without shelter in bad weather
3 days without water or less under stress
3 WEEKS without food….so we know we won’t be happy but we will survive hungry

www.equippedtosurvive.org is a great resource for this type of stuff
Adventure Medical makes some great items that save a ton of space and are very well thought out at a decent price…..like the pocket survival pack which is small enough to fit in a back pocket and will make nice starter….
http://equippedtosurvive.org/psp/index.htm


1) It is great that you have gear at all, that is more than many folks do, also a planning and training also make a big difference
2) A SPOT Global Messenger is a cheap option for what you get and should be part of any emergency setup
3) What do you carry on your person as everyday stuff (EDC –every day carry)? That can make a big difference in what you need to add with the packs. Also it is good to teach people that they should always be prepared and empty pockets are a waste.
4) You still seem heavy on the catch/kill/eat thought process and nothing for medical on the small pack. Skinning animals is a risk for injury and it would be nice to have at least some small basic stuff.
5) On the medium pack you have aspirin and band aids….not sure of the caloric value of Tabasco, maybe change those out for an energy bar and more med stuff…at least a 10ml syringe for flushing wounds and some triangle bandages. Also bandana’s work pretty well and making one part of your everyday carries will save space in your pack.
6) I still wonder about the space and wgt of the pocket atlas, the level of detail would not be of much value. If you are really in an unknown area stats show you are better off staying in place vs. hiking towards a highway/place that is difficult to nav towards with a pocket atlas. A blank note pad to keep records, be fire starter and leave notes if you do move is a good idea. Or a pocket guide to edible plants (you mention previous training so that might not be needed by you but useful to others, easy to catch and kill a plant vs. catch/kill/skin an animal)
7) Those little foil blankets can serve a ton of uses and while they aren’t perfect they do work when used correctly
http://www.redflarekits.com/pc/1037/s/Heatsheets+BLANKET%2C+Two+Person++Emergency+Surviv al++by+AMK
Personally I like a cheap 3mil contractor grade garbage bags for all the uses you can get out of them and the heat they will hold in as a makeshift poncho.
8) The snake bites kits have been shown with research to not be a good option.
9) Another pocket atlas in the large pack….see above thoughts on a pocket atlas in a survival bag
10) Maybe add a LED headlamp to the large pack so that your hands are free and you can’t always make a fire for light
11) I still feel the same about sutures and surgical kits….unless you are very used to sewing on people, unless you think you can sew on yourself you are better off with good wound hygiene and direct pressure on clean bandages. If it is serious enough for sutures you need to get to medical help…oh and then there are the chances of nerve & vessel damage and creating a wound pocket for infection….Steri-strips would be a good choice
12) Chorhexidine to replace betadine as many people are allergic and you might use your kit on someone else
13) Imodium might be a good thought as the strange diet or water bugs in a survival situation can cause diarrhea and mass fluid loss is bad
14) Benadryl would also be a must as an allergic reaction could be a life or death thing especially if you are eating new things or getting bit by strange things

Last after looking at your vehicle in person and on the forums, reading what you write and talking in person I know a Ham radio should be in your future. I nice little handheld would be a nice addition and even though I highly recommend the SPOT ham also has a place. Plus you can do some mods to a radio that while illegal in normal use would allow you to talk with aviation, police and other folks in a life & death moment.

[Shadow-Warrior]

To answer a few of your questions Lance. I too agree about the SPOT, this is one piece of Survival Equipment EVERY vehicle should have that goes off-road. I am at the moment studing to take my test to get my HAM license. CB's are ok with a group of vehicles on the trail that are fairly close, but after that, they aren't much use.

Lance you have to understand the Geographic region that a person is in is how and what they carry in their bug out bag. You live in AZ, I can see you carrying lots of food stuff's in your bug out gear, I live in a more Jungle type area where game is very plentful along with plants and even water vines that hang from the trees. I think it foolish to carry a bulk of food stuff's myself when it's gone in three days, it took up 40% of my pack and now I have to resort of hunting or gathering. I could have used the space for more Real survival items instead.

Don;t get me wrong I do carry, MRE's and some energy bars in the vehicle, but this dosen't go inside my kit, these items can be shoved inside my clothing.

I have seen plenty of gear bags on line that supply 72 hour bugout kits, they contain pouches of water, meals, lighting, etc. This is fine for an Office Emergency kit or a winter survival kit to keep in your car if you go off in a snow bank knowing someone will find you within a day or so. This is not the kind of SURVIVAL kit I carry. I carry one that I can survive for long periods of time on end. You say I take a risk of injury by skinning an animal, I disagree, let's face it, we don't live in a closed off box, I have been using knives all my life everyday. Just because I'm in a survival situation dosen't mean I'm going to slice myself up now. I can see someone from the city trying to do the same thing and injurying themseves.

I have lived for over two years off the land, NO running Water, NO electricity. I had to make a fire every night to keep myself warm in the winter in the snow, make shelters, catch and trap game, bath, etc. I do know what I'm talking about. My kit is made for ME, and only me. Someone from a different area of the country will have a different setup than I do. There is no ONE KIT. You have Artic Areas, You have Desert Areas, Jungle areas, etc. All of these require a different mind set and survival requirements. Mine is perfectly fine for the temprate climate I live in. If I moved to Alaska, I would have a very different looking kit. I hope this helps you better understand of why I carry what I do.

PS, thanks for toning your wording down over here. :)

And by the way, I carry the Pocket kit on my belt everyday to answer your question Lance. :)

Mike

[teotwaki]

Hey Shadow since the thread on fjcruiserforums got deleted I will add my thoughts here….hopefully this one won’t turn ugly….
I see you made some changes in your commentary or there are things I missed the first time, either way I still feel the same on a number of issues…

Yes, please be careful with this one and keep in mind that this is a friendly "round the campfire" discussion. PLEASE avoid strong opinions that are easily misinterpreted or continually harping on certain points such as eating small animals. That could go in a different thread.


www.equippedtosurvive.org is a great resource for this type of stuff

all I can say is $30 for this??????
http://www.equippedtosurvive.org/GRAPHICS/psp_in_pouch_250w_ds.jpg


4) You still seem heavy on the catch/kill/eat thought process and nothing for medical on the small pack. Skinning animals is a risk for injury and it would be nice to have at least some small basic stuff.

??? Depends on where you have to survive, right? Coming through an earthquake devastated city is one thing but I think there are more critters available to eat where Mike lives. Just having a knife is a risk for injury but I'm not leaving mine behind.

My impression was that his small pack was meant to be SMALL. The bigger pack has
.....j. Large Wound Dressing
.....k. Large traumma Wound Pad
.....l. assorted Buterfly Bandages


Another pocket atlas in the large pack….see above thoughts on a pocket atlas in a survival bag

Doesn't require batteries, gives you a sense of overall topography and can be used for tinder. Better than nothing and is useful if you travel across country a lot, never knowing where something major might occur. At some point you cannot just sit around waiting to be rescued, SPOT toys or not.


Or a pocket guide to edible plants (you mention previous training so that might not be needed by you but useful to others, easy to catch and kill a plant vs. catch/kill/skin an animal)

Some folks would much rather cook and eat a small critter than haul around a bunch of nasty-tasting Power Bars. Anyhow, he listed the US Army Survival Manual....


Maybe add a LED headlamp to the large pack so that your hands are free and you can’t always make a fire for light

Agree MUCHO! LED headlamps are so darned useful and just keep getting better.


….Steri-strips would be a good choice

I don't know diddly about sewing human flesh so Steri-Strips are my choice too!


12) Chorhexidine to replace betadine as many people are allergic and you might use your kit on someone else
14) Benadryl would also be a must as an allergic reaction could be a life or death thing especially if you are eating new things or getting bit by strange things

Great points so I'll be adding them to mine


Last after looking at your vehicle in person and on the forums, reading what you write and talking in person I know a Ham radio should be in your future. I nice little handheld would be a nice addition and even though I highly recommend the SPOT ham also has a place. Plus you can do some mods to a radio that while illegal in normal use would allow you to talk with aviation, police and other folks in a life & death moment.

I would not publicly advise this. Some Sheriffs Dept. gave a SoCal Ham a lot of grief for (legitimately) calling for help on police frequencies. Still searching for the original article.

Exactly which ham radio can be modified to transmit on VHF AM for Aviation??? I doubt it is possible but would love to have that radio... :hehe:

[teotwaki]

Here are a couple of things that I have in my kit

Goretex bootie inserts for wet and cold weather if I am caught without the right shoes. In a pinch can be used to scoop water up.
http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/9633/survival001du5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Below is a combo that has worked well for ultralight backpacking and mountaineering.

A North Face Polarguard insulated jacket that compresses smaller than fleece, blocks wind (Pertex shell) but is breatheable and will still insulate while wet.
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/6114/survival005bx2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Packs down small into its own stow pocket.
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/2581/survival0031hj9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Combine it with a North Face "Elephant's Foot" bivy bag. Made of Polarguard and Pertex, the lower half is insulated and the upper is a tube shell. Note the "tongue" with zipper halves on each side. In this photo it is not stretched out full length.
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/2682/survival006mr8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Zip the jacket in for a complete package!
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9320/survival008xv4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The Foot packs down very small into a stuff sack
http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/2401/survival0032sc3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[haven]

Costco.com has an emergency food supply for sale. It's a 10 gallon bucket packed with 275 dehydrated vegetarian meals (lots of soy powder protein, no doubt). The regular cost is $85, but now it's only $75, shipping included.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?whse=BC&topnav=&prodid=11219554&ec=BC-EC877-CatHome&pos=9&lang=en-US

Here's the description of the contents

275 Servings
All Meals 100% Vegetarian and Vitamin Fortified
Sealed in convenient Weather-Proof bucket for easy transport

30 Servings - Potato w/ Bacon
25 Servings - Corn Chowder
25 Servings - Ala King
25 Servings - Cacciatore
25 Servings - Western Stew
25 Servings - Country Noodle
25 Servings - Rice Lentil
45 Servings - Whey Milk
25 Servings - Blueberry Pancakes
25 Servings - Barley Vegetable

Total Weight: 23 lbs.

The product has a 20 year shelf life if stored in a cool location. I suppose the shelf life is a lot less if you keep the bucket in your truck.

[timmer2008]

One Item I would never go with out on any adventure trip is a .45 acp sidearm. with which I can deter a mountain lion or wild dog. Harvest a deer, pig or any other small game. clip fruit out of trees and signal from a distance.

And Yes I am licenced, permitted and practiced. so also should you be if you intend to utilize such a tool.

I also love squenchers in liquidpack form. you can do wonderous things with those little metalic bags they come in.

[tommym]

Awesome posts Shadow Warrior!!! I learned alot & added to my kits.
Thanks again!:bowdown:

[crawler#976]

Having a HAM radio, like the Yaesu FT-7800, modified to transmit on LE, marine, or aviation freq's is part of my equipment. As the old saying goes, it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6...

Mark

[toyota_jon]

Absolutely wonderful thread! great ideas. i had a question while reading all of this from a survival standpoint would a dog be considered an asset or liability? when i go out my gf sometimes comes with me, if she doesn't maybe 1/2 the time i'll have someone riding shotgun. but my dog ALWAYS comes.

I tend to think of him as an asset while i'm out. he does require food and water as do i which does use up valuable resources, and i do have to keep an eye on him to make sure he doesn't get into trouble, such as a porcupine or other animal. but he adds a lot to the situation. if anything comes near, either 2 or 4 legged he'll know long before i do and let me know, so i can be ready. if i'm incapacitated, his barking or movement is something for others to see and hear. He's another body to keep warm with. and as someone else mentioned when in a stressful situation having a little reassurance can go a long way towards your state of mind. and if things go REALLY bad he is a source of food. man i'd be shook up if i ever had to but it is a reality.

what do you guys think?

[cruisertoy]

Costco.com has an emergency food supply for sale. It's a 10 gallon bucket packed with 275 dehydrated vegetarian meals (lots of soy powder protein, no doubt). The regular cost is $85, but now it's only $75, shipping included.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?whse=BC&topnav=&prodid=11219554&ec=BC-EC877-CatHome&pos=9&lang=en-US

Here's the description of the contents

275 Servings
All Meals 100% Vegetarian and Vitamin Fortified
Sealed in convenient Weather-Proof bucket for easy transport

30 Servings - Potato w/ Bacon
25 Servings - Corn Chowder
25 Servings - Ala King
25 Servings - Cacciatore
25 Servings - Western Stew
25 Servings - Country Noodle
25 Servings - Rice Lentil
45 Servings - Whey Milk
25 Servings - Blueberry Pancakes
25 Servings - Barley Vegetable

Total Weight: 23 lbs.

The product has a 20 year shelf life if stored in a cool location. I suppose the shelf life is a lot less if you keep the bucket in your truck.


I own a few of the costco kits, but don't see them as a viable "truck kit". They are dehydrated not freeze dried so you have to boil them for a long time before they are soft and palletable. The problem I see with them is the fuel to cook them. In my home preparedness stuff I have enough fuel (white gas and propane) to cook everything I have stored. 275 servings being boiled for 20 minutes each might take a ton of fuel. I'm not discouraging anyone from this type of food, just make sure you can prepare it in an emergency.

[Northern Explorer]

I found a few more good examples of BOB/Survival Packs from a web site called Zombie Hunters (http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4103):yikes:

I like this break down .22 (http://www.henry-guns.com/h002_survival.cfm)

[JeepinBear]

I need to reload my spreadsheets (pdf's) from before the attachments started disappearing, but I finally got around to taking some pics of the gear.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_kKY51dgmYG8/Sdlnq__KMTI/AAAAAAAAUXc/b1AS9hyl14w/s640/DSC00819.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_kKY51dgmYG8/SdlnYFaGhSI/AAAAAAAAUUk/W77H8Om4rUs/s640/DSC00804.JPG
You can see them here...
http://picasaweb.google.com/Patrick.Behrendt/SurvivalGear?feat=directlink

[teotwaki]

I found a few more good examples of BOB/Survival Packs from a web site called Zombie Hunters (http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4103):yikes:

I like this break down .22 (http://www.henry-guns.com/h002_survival.cfm)

I love the take-down Bolt Cutters!! :drool:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/olaf_yahoo/BoBgear.jpg

[teotwaki]

Check out the video. I like that forum :ylsmoke:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4YC1SxWyY4

[The Adam Blaster]

Forgive my ignorance...
In a survival situation, what purpose do bolt cutters serve?
It seems like the weight and size alone would ensure they wouldn't make it into my ditch bag...

[HanzoSteel]

Bolt cutters seem a little extreme for a pack, I'd just rather keep one in my truck.

[teotwaki]

When the zombies have you cornered at a padalocked door you'll be wishing for those bolt cutters... :smilies27 :eek:

[calamaridog]

The tactical vest and rambo knife are very low profile:sombrero:

[jesusgatos]

I don't know why, but I freakin' LOVE this.

One Item I would never go with out on any adventure trip is a .45 acp sidearm. with which I can... clip fruit out of trees...


Regarding the bolt-cutters, what kind of emergencies are you guys preparing for? If we're talking about ADV-type adventure preparedness, that's kind of a different scenario than a zombie uprising or natural disaster or whatever. Maybe just think about where you/we spend the majority of your/our time.

I put together a pack for riding dirt bikes a while ago, after reading this toolkit thread on ADV (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262998). I had always had bags of useful MMMM around, for riding mountain bikes and whatever, but the amount of ground that we can cover on dirt bikes is amazing, and we end up a lot further out there than when we're traveling by other means. So I gave a little bit of thought to emergency-type stuff, but it's basically a tool-pack. I've ended up carrying this bag with me a lot even when I'm not riding, and almost always when I'm traveling. Substitute a few of the basic hand-tools, upsize the ratchets to 3/8" drive stuff and it makes great bag to throw in your car/truck (as a break-down bag).

That's usually the biggest emergency that I plan for/expect, and with this bag I don't need anything more than a few specialty vehicle-specific tools to service any part of my Tacoma (that I could repair on the road). So what I've started doing is just keeping a separate bag of those tools/parts in each vehicle, whether that's a spark plug for each dirt bike or tools for my truck or whatever. I've made some more recent changes with the bag/gear that I'm carrying, and I made a few later posts in that thread about what and why. But mostly, I wanted to provide a link to that thread because I found a lot of that info of useful stuff and for me... tools equals survival WAY more often than anything else.



Reading this thread got me motivated to put together a nice little toolkit.

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/moto/jesusgatos_tools_02.jpg

from left-to-right:
L-shaped handle with assorted allen bits & screwdriver bits
sparkplug socket (from a KTM toolkit? don't remember)
6, 8, 10, 12, 14mm sockets, stored on a carb needle puller tool
hex-drive 1/4" socket adapter
1/4" wobble extension
short 1/4" extension
Husky 1/4" and hex driver
8/10 & 12/14 open-end combo wrenches (looking for better quality replacements for the ones I'm carrying)
spoke wrench (need to buy a smaller/lighter one)
locking surgical scissors
Craftsman duckbill adjustable wrench (just big enough for the axle nuts on my bikes)
Irwin 6LN needle-nose locking vise-grips
small combo pliers
hacksaw blade (cut to same length as tire levers)
shop towel (paper)
shop towel (cotton)
nitril gloves
1qt oil containers (I keep all my tools in these)

Wachs (http://www.advrider.com/forums/member.php?u=14582) showed me this trick a while ago and I think it's a great way to carry tools.

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/moto/jesusgatos_tools_03.jpg
Roll 'em up.

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/moto/jesusgatos_tools_04.jpg
Stuff everything into one of the containers.

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/moto/jesusgatos_tools_05.jpg
Then slide one over other container to create a really compact little toolcase and you don't have to worry about sharp tools poking through fabric, tubes, water bladders, kidneys, etc. Plus, the containers are pretty handy for transferring fuel, or oil or whatever.

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/moto/jesusgatos_tools_06.jpg
from bottom-right counterclockwise:
21" tube (carry a rear too on longer trips)
two Motion-Pro tire-levers
hacksaw blade (also shown in previous pictures, I store it with the tire-levers)
Blackburn mtb pump w/ 550 paracord wrapped around handle (because a length of rope is always handy to have)
patch kit
spare valve core (stored in a valve stem I cut out of an old tube)
valve-core tool
small amount of radiator stop-leak
spare spark plug (for whatever bike I'm riding)
liquid-steel (or equivalent) two-part epoxy, wrapped with electrical & duct tape (post-it notes stored inside tube w/ epoxy)
surgical tubing (for transferring fuel)
assorted zip-ties
master-links (for whatever bike I'm riding)
misc. hardware
electrical stuff - spare fuses, butt-splice connectors, bullet-connectors, assorted electrical terminal-ends, shrink-tube, etc.
length of 16ga hi-temp electrical wire
bicycle derailleur cable (to use as emergency replacement for any broken cables)
butt-splice connector for fuel-line
*I've been meaning to go buy some hose-clamps

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/moto/jesusgatos_tools_07.jpg
from bottom-right counterclockwise:
emergency water-filter straw (carry a better one on longer rides)
lighter
flashlight (would like to replace that Mag-lite with a little LED headlamp)
pocket knife (CRKT M16T)
mini-compass (carry GPS & paper maps most of the time)
tinder / fire-starters (in that little red headlamp container)
space-pen
Fox40 whistle & magnesium flint
chapstick
pipe & smoke
earplugs
Krazy Glue (for glueing skin back together)
Visene
sanitary wipes & toilet paper
mini-saw
emergency space-blanket
assorted first-aid stuff & container (old glasses case) for first-aid stuff

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/moto/jesusgatos_tools_08.jpg
Bag-of-choice to haul all this crap. I really like these DaKine packs. Pictured is the Apex (http://dakine.com/bike/bike-packs/apex/). The Nomad (http://dakine.com/bike/bike-packs/nomad/) and are both nice packs too (I have one of each of them). Feature-for-feature, I think they're WAY nicer than Camelbak's packs. But the Nalgene bladders they come with SUCK (I use Camelbak bladders).

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/moto/jesusgatos_tools_01.jpg
I used almost every tool, spare part and piece of survival gear that I was carrying while we were [url=http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=400530]riding up in Gifford Pinchot last weekend (]Drafter[/url).

[StumpXJ]

Couple good websites for this kind of stuff

www.thereadystore.com

www.rangerjoe.com

Some really cool stuff on both sites, I just revamped my bug out bag, and got some good stuff from both places.

~James

[TOTJ]

I have read this whole thread and there are some great kits
that I have seen but I would like to make apoint about food.
I work for a disaster preparedness company and have some insight.
1st you should not count on MRE's specialy if you dont know how
they were stored befor you got them. Here is a chart on it shelf
life depending on temp. Because there is liquide in MRE's they can go bad
earlier then the experation date.
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m244/genkat_2006/mre_storage_chart.gif
Since your food is only for emergiancy you should buy a food for that
purpose. Something that is not thurst provoking, No nuts or tropical
oils. You maybe able to eat nuts but what if there is some one with you
that has a reaction to the nuts like a child.
Not affected by temp or moisture. does not need to be cooked
has a long shelf life is compact but high in carbs.
The food bars are a baked food that has no transfats but has 2400cal
and only weighs 1.3lbs. You only need 800 cal per day per the\coastguard
for survival.
We manufacture these bars but regardless of brand they are all
about the same.
http://www.quakekare.com/ProductImages/1A_det_emergency_food.jpg

[bobc]

I generally keep to the side lines and read everyone's posts but decided I had to jump in and add a reply to this thread about survival gear. The one item I would like to add is glasses. The first thing I put on in the morning is my glasses. The last thing that comes off at night before I hit the sack is my glasses. I keep a spare pair in my truck, my wife's truck and my motorcycle tank bag in crush proof, reinforced cases. If something happened and I lost my glasses.....I don't even want to think about it.

[calamaridog]

I generally keep to the side lines and read everyone's posts but decided I had to jump in and add a reply to this thread about survival gear. The one item I would like to add is glasses. The first thing I put on in the morning is my glasses. The last thing that comes off at night before I hit the sack is my glasses. I keep a spare pair in my truck, my wife's truck and my motorcycle tank bag in crush proof, reinforced cases. If something happened and I lost my glasses.....I don't even want to think about it.

Good post.

Also consider having a weeks worth (or more) of medication you can't live without.

While I have worn contacts since I was 16, I always own a current pair of glasses. I wear them maybe 1-2 times per year on average, but I always have a pair handy.

[JeepinBear]

I reloaded my .pdf's in earlier posts. They had disappeared monhs ago due to a server problem or something. I've updated them quite a bit but need to wait until I can remake the .pdf's from my spreadsheets. When I do I will reload them.

I still love this thread!:elkgrin:

[Scott Brady]

This was posted on another forum by Jack (JSQ), a member of ExPo. Jack is an experienced guy, yet things still went unexpectedly "bad". When I originally researched my ditch bag and justification for its use, the water crossing scenario always came to mind, followed closely by the vehicle fire scenario. This is evidence of how quickly things can demand a rapid exit from the vehicle and potential survival situation.

This post is not to second-guess anything Jack did, just to serve as a reminder that we must always be prepared, even for a day trip into a ranch for your job.


It was pretty bad.
Certainly the worst fourwheeling situation I've ever been in and short of someone getting hurt it couldn't have gone any worse. It only lasted 12 to 15 minutes from the time we went in to when I swam to shore, including one failed attempt at winching.

It happened on a ranch where my coworkers and I were monitoring the effects of the storm. We only have stock Toyota trucks for work with no winches so we took my Disco. The spot is an improved "Arizona crossing" with a concrete bottom. We drove 2/3rds of the way across in about 2' to 3' of water and then all of a sudden we became a submarine. It's possible the concrete had blown out and we just drove right off the end. I still don't know. Maybe we just hit a wall of silt that caused a deep eddy? It was raining and the current was very fast and strong and the water level was rising as soon as we stopped moving. The truck stalled out and started filling up with water. I jumped out the window into the upstream of the river and was pinned against the truck. The water was about 40 degrees and large logs were coming down the current and hitting the truck. I wanted to work my way around to the front to get to the winch but the current was too swift. I climbed onto the hood and told my coworkers to climb out the passenger side windows onto the rack. The truck was shifting a little and wasn't quite stable. I was worried it would go with us in it. The hood was already under water at this point and I was on my knees reaching down to freespool and get the line out and the remote hooked up. By then the interior was filled to the bottom of the windows. My female co-worker dove off and swam about 15 feet upstream to the closest tree while we short-roped her. I threw her the winchline and she bubba clipped it around the line (all the recovery gear was underwater in the back of the truck). I couldn't get back in to steer so I just stood on the hood and tensioned up the line to try to anchor the truck. It broke immediately somewhere near the drum. At that point with no running engine, no winch line and the water coming up the windshield it was time to go. I got back in the river and went around to the back of the truck to open the rear door and grab their packs and my bug-out bag. We hauled those to shore and then we short-roped my other co-worker and he dove in and swam out. I was the last one off the island. It was tough to leave. From there we hiked a few miles out to get picked up. All of our cellphones died in the swim but the HT in my pack was fine.

That night the river got really high. Apparently it was all the way up to the roofrack. It has since stopped raining and the sun is out so the water is dropping. Tomorrow the forecast is clear so we go back to see if we can carefully get it out. The truck is ****ed but at least if it comes out cleanly a lot should be salvageable.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=37045&stc=1&d=1264703581

[Mr. Leary]

Scary... I always get that fear when I make crossings... that all of a sudden there will be nothing there to drive on...

... glad to hear nobody got hurt... on the spot decision making won the day.

[teotwaki]

Thanks for posting that Scott! It was really good to read that:

1. They had bugout bags prepared
2. The bags were readily accessible (in a raging river no less!)
3. They had the presence of mind to grab the bags

[Spikepretorius]

I have a continual dilemma of having kit close at hand in the truck or having it packed in ready-to-grab bags. This sort of story is a reminder to rather have the slight inconvenience of having to scratch in a bag when you need something.

[Scott Brady]

This was good timing for me, as I had recently considered pulling the ditch bag from my Disco for daily driving duties. Since reading Jack's post, I have since pulled everything out, inspected and restocked the kit.

And I moved the winch controller to the front door pocket.

[Youngunner]

I'm working on a couple of kits for me and the girlfriend. Starting with pelican cases and adding as I go. I learned a lot from the Royal Air Force cadet program and being trained by the British SAS. The most important items have to be a knife and flint or a magnesium block which i carry on my person (Ontario USN survival). I also carry around a S&W .357 in a western style hip holster because I'm in Nevada where I can (who needs a CCP?) But really, whenever I'm in Mountain Lion or bear terriotory.

Here's the list (mostly):

Couple of MREs
Water pouches
Food ration pills
Small folding camp stove and a little aluminum cooking pot

Leatherman multi tool
Lifeboat/weatherproof matches
Small amount of fishing line with a couple of hooks and weights
Snare wire

British military rain poncho with eyelets in the corners (tie the hood closed and it makes an excellent shelter)
Tent pegs
Parachute cord
Spare set of clothing
Glow sticks
Chemical hand warmer packets
Whistle
Strobe light
TP for the lady! The Nevada desert has some great soft foiliage tho!

Compass
Map of area I'm travelling
Waterproof pad and pencil
Whenever I'm in the local area I carry my handheld radio for my dispatch. We cover 5400 square miles in our county alone and also venture to other surrounding counties.

Small first aid kit in each box (contents under review as I have another pelican case devoted to a extensive medical kit as I am a Paramedic)


DON'T FORGET MAN'S BEST FRIENT TOO!

I like having a little water reserve and some extra's in my first aid kit for my Great Dane (sutures, wound clotting, etc).

[StumpXJ]

And I moved the winch controller to the front door pocket.

This is a good point. I usually use my wireless controller, which I assume will be useless in this situation. My back up normal/wired remote is buried in with the vehicle spare parts... no way I could get to it in a hurry. I am thinking this may change.

I wonder why the winch rope broke so quickly/easily? That winch was pretty much the only chance for saving it that I can think of.

Thanks for cross posting.

~ James

[Sirocco]

I wonder why the winch rope broke so quickly/easily?

Did it get shock loaded from floating down stream?

On an even scarier note, I dont suppose you guys across the pond heard but a similar story here in the UK ended in disaster. On one of our remotest greenlanes in Wales a Discovery overturned into the river trapping one of its occupants in cold water. I dont know the full details as not much is documented but the folk that got out had to walk a few miles to help but it was to late. I dont know how experienced they were or what recovery gear they had or anything like that or even if a grab bag would have been of any use but it just shows how easy it is for it all to go wrong.

food for though.

G

[teotwaki]

This is a good point. I usually use my wireless controller, which I assume will be useless in this situation. My back up normal/wired remote is buried in with the vehicle spare parts... no way I could get to it in a hurry. I am thinking this may change.

I wonder why the winch rope broke so quickly/easily? That winch was pretty much the only chance for saving it that I can think of.

Thanks for cross posting.

~ James

Curious if the winch line was synthetic and if it would have been more likely to break than a steel line.

[johnnyrover]

<lurker status off>
I would guess the winch cable broke because of the additional forces from the current of the river and the added weight of water in the truck.
<lurker status on>

[rusty_tlc]

Which reminds me, I need to throw our 'mergency ammo can back in the Land Cruiser. I had to take it out to haul some stuff. The ammo can has a couple of MRE's and some first aid stuff in itI want one in each car but it takes time and $$ to get them all filled up. When all is said and done they will have the ten essentials in each one.

I keep the bulk of the survival stuff in a day pack. The Day pack contains stuff I take when I ride in other tucks or is to expensive to replicate for all three of the Land Cruisers. Things like my Ham HT and GPS. In general I re-pack my day pack twice a year. Spring and fall I swap out seasonal items, but more important I check to make sure everything is still there and in good order.

[StumpXJ]

Looks like 3/8 size (roughly 19,000 pounds strength?) Masterpull synthetic to me in the pictures. Regardless, it looks like quality rope, however if the river was flowing well enough to carry the truck down stream, I doubt much would have held it. On the same note, it doesnt seem like he would have tried to cross if it was flowing that hard. The story doesnt really portray a raging river, just a steady flow that got MUCH deeper than anticipated.

Eye opening none the less, sorry the truck got destroyed/flooded, but glad everyone is ok!

[Scott Brady]

As another interesting point of discussion. What should you always carry on your person?

Of course, you can end up looking like a goof-ball, all Armageddoned-out, walking down the street with 20lbs. of stuff hanging on your belt.
http://2cooltoolz.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/minotaurkahrmk9camoflageexposed.jpg

Here is my list:
1. Watch with second hand. This is the one I am currently wearing.
http://www.traserh3watches.com/media/watch_detail/P_6504_black_storm_pro_det.jpg
2. iPod. This device serves a bunch of functions, including coms. compass, GPS, weather (with service), even slick little references for medical care, knots, etc. It even functions as a flashlight. Battery power, is of course the major issue.
http://www.otterbox.com/images/products/375/1942-20.5.4.jpg
3. Knife. Have a good folder or semi-auto on you. I typically carry the KISS, though there are probably better options here.
http://www.crkt.com/crkt/content/images_inv/v/k/124/CR5500K_xlarge_4196_full_124.jpg
4. Cash- Always have enough cash on you, as it can solve many problems.

Some other ideas for discussion:
1. Little survival gadget to fit in your wallethttp://www.gearfuse.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/creditcardtool.jpg

2. Sidearm (obviously, some will see the advantage, some will not)
http://www.usgalco.com/Catalog/large/Tuck-N-Go-O-L.jpg

3. Paracord Bracelet. I just got one of these to test out. Survival Straps (http://www.survivalstraps.com/)
http://www.survivalstraps.com/v/vspfiles/photos/SB-WIDE-2T.jpg

[kjp1969]

Nothing on my belt, ever. A small Victorinox on my keychain and my wits, and that's about it.

I have more stuff in each car and desk at work, like a good knife, flashlight, fire extinguisher and first aid kits. I prefer to have all this stuff nearby, rather than hanging off of me at all times.

[The Adam Blaster]

I usually have cargo pants or shorts on when I'm 'wheeling/exploring, and I have at leaat a granola bar and knife on my person at all times.
I have my bug out bag loaded with what I feel are essentials, but I need to take the time to refine it down a bit as it's about 40 pounds, and I would prefer to take something a bit lighter if I have to hike out in rough terrain.


I want to go back to the winch line breaking in that river episode...
Was he trying to pull the Disco in a sideways motion? That is the first thing popped into my head, maybe it snapped because it snagged on a sharp corner of the fairlead or even on a part of the vehicle?

And has the Disco been removed from the river yet?

[The Adam Blaster]

Oh, I had another question...

How much water do you guys put inside your pack?
I'm thinking for the average warm spring/fall day.
Summer temps get pretty high in the southwest obviously... so the amount of water would increase quite a bit. (Or at least "should" increase.)

[Mr. Leary]

I have a CHL, but that does not mean that I carry a sidearm on my person at all times. I always have my leatherman, a pocket knife and a lighter... the rest I can do without at least for a little while.

As far as water in the bug out bag, i keep 2 single quart canteens... canteens have the advantage of being easily useable with a gas mask, heatable, and stout....... and my MSR Sweetwater filter.

Other things I keep in my bug out bag include:

-Survival Knife (with sling shot, paracord, alternate saw blade, compass, needle, two WP matches, fish hook w/ line, and small whistle)
-magnesium fire starter
-emergency bivy
-warm hat (as long as you stay moving, you need little else in most climates)
-2 bic lighters
-3 dehydrated meals
-MSR Superfly stove w/ fuel can
-tevas
-hiking boots
-snares

General strategy is to get out / get away, find water source, follow it down stream until I find people / help. If there is a decent sized road, I may follow it instead of water source, but usually sticking near a stream will eventually lead you to someone, IME.

EDIT: ...and extra socks... add warm clothing as needed.

[stioc]

I've revised my EDC items too many times. Initially they all make sense and have a purpose but ultimately they're hard to carry especially when you wear dress pants and shirts to work. For e.g. I'd like to carry three things on my keyring:

1. A good quality multi tool
2. A decent flashlight
3. A lighter

In reality my Leatherman Wave is both too bulky and heavy to carry on a keyring along with my Gerber AAA flashlight, a BIC lighter and 4 keys on the ring. So overtime I've scaled down to a cheap Winchester folder in my pocket and the Gerber flashlight on the keyring.

There are really two situations I need to be prepared for:

1. The big impending earthquake that's supposed to hit us Californians
2. Getting lost or stranded while out exploring

My hiking backpack contains:

1. Small first-aid kit
2. Small Doug Ritter 'survival' kit
3. wool cap, gloves, poncho, empty tomato can, matches, lighter, fixed blade survival knife, para-cord, a compass, a couple of power bars, 16oz water bottle, 64oz water bladder, a match box and a lighter.

[FotoValpen]

*following*

[CJCA]

There are really two situations I need to be prepared for:

1. The big impending earthquake that's supposed to hit us Californians
2. Getting lost or stranded while out exploring


That's my #1 as well. The 6.5 quake we had here a couple of weeks ago got my attention. I'm assembling a survival backpack to keep in the trunk of the car. Enough basic supplies that are easily carried and that allows me to safely survive all seasons for 2 to 3 days.

[rusty_tlc]

I've revised my EDC items too many times. Initially they all make sense and have a purpose but ultimately they're hard to carry especially when you wear dress pants and shirts to work. For e.g. I'd like to carry three things on my keyring:

1. A good quality multi tool
2. A decent flashlight
3. A lighter

In reality my Leatherman Wave is both too bulky and heavy to carry on a keyring along with my Gerber AAA flashlight, a BIC lighter and 4 keys on the ring. So overtime I've scaled down to a cheap Winchester folder in my pocket and the Gerber flashlight on the keyring.
.....
You might want to look at the Leatherman Micra tool, have one in my pocket at all times. Certainly not as good as a full size multi but small and useful enough.
Key features I find useful;

Small screwdriver, just right for eyeglasses
Clever Phillips screw driver, I actually changed a hard drive with it one time.
Tweezers that actually work, I use them all the time.
Scissors that work
And most important, a bottle opener.

[tremors834]

This is a good point. I usually use my wireless controller, which I assume will be useless in this situation. My back up normal/wired remote is buried in with the vehicle spare parts... no way I could get to it in a hurry. I am thinking this may change.
~ James

This is very interesting thread.
It makes me wonder how those that have rear slide out drawer storage would be able to get to a piece of emergency equipment should access to the rear hatch/door of the vehicle become compromised where it could not be opened and the drawers be slid open, such as a water crossing gone bad, etc.

Maybe a top hatch type access door be built into the drawer unit. The hinged portion of the hatch could be towards the rear or sides of the vehicle where one could just climb to the rear seat, reach over, open the hatch and grab what's needed.

IDK, maybe I'm just thinking to much into this??

[Mr. Leary]

If I don't have the dogs, I seatbelt my bug out bag in the back seat passenger side. I have been thionking about adding some hooks or other means of suspension from the ceiling to secure the pack, since I can't see out of the rear when I'm loaded anyways. Has anyone done this?

[southpier]

no; i think it's a very real consideration.just like an escape hatch in a van or cap/ shell.

[rusty_tlc]

This is very interesting thread.
It makes me wonder how those that have rear slide out drawer storage would be able to get to a piece of emergency equipment should access to the rear hatch/door of the vehicle become compromised where it could not be opened and the drawers be slid open, such as a water crossing gone bad, etc.

Maybe a top hatch type access door be built into the drawer unit. The hinged portion of the hatch could be towards the rear or sides of the vehicle where one could just climb to the rear seat, reach over, open the hatch and grab what's needed.

IDK, maybe I'm just thinking to much into this??
I keep my day pack bungeed to the back of the PS front seat.

In my mental design of a drawer system there is a hatch that opens to a compartment located in the front just behind the front seats. This would be useful not only for the survival bag but maps, snacks etc. that you want to reach while driving.

[Ruffin' It]

I took one of those roof rack stretchy cargo nets and hung it vertically behind my front seats. It provides a surprisingly snug place (between the cargo net and the back of the front seats) to stash things I need/want in a hurry (ie. bug out bag, First Aid kit, snacks, etc). I just ran one ratchet strap between the rear passenger grab handles and another between the outer most points where the seat bolts to the floor. Then, I hook the plastic hooks from the cargo to the strap. I have never had anything work loose and can grab anything I need with one arm and my seat belt fastened, no hooks or fasteners to undo, nothing to dig through/around. I still think is it the best mod I have done to any vehicle I have ever owned.





If I don't have the dogs, I seatbelt my bug out bag in the back seat passenger side. I have been thionking about adding some hooks or other means of suspension from the ceiling to secure the pack, since I can't see out of the rear when I'm loaded anyways. Has anyone done this?

[Ruffin' It]

It seems like pretty much everything is covered (not surprising). I didn't catch a couple things I tend to carry in case I have to hike out (I am a former Rover owner, so I worry about these things).
Baby Powder - Really nice to have if you are starting to get sweaty. A little in "high friction areas" prevents chaffing and keeps you dry, which is nice when the sun and temps start to drop. Nothing worse than damp socks and undies when it gets below 50.
Mole Skin - If you are hiking for your life, covering an area that is starting to blister helps you keep going AND reduced the chances of an open sore (which can turn into a nasty infected wound).
Wool Blanket - Wool keeps 80% of it's ability to retain heat when wet. A good wool survival blanket can act as an additional layer when walking (worn like a cape), something warm to wrap up in while (trying) to sleep, and an essential peice of First Aid equipment if someone goes into shock. It can be a pillow, a tourniquet, a sling, a stretcher if properly placed between heavy enough sticks, shade if it gets really sunny, can pre-filter larger debris out of water for drinking, use as a sling to collect firewood in, wind stop, flag to wave to get people's attention, etc. A good peice of kit to have and pretty light considering all the things it can do.

Other than that, I think you guys have it covered.

[Scott Brady]

I am working on revising my ditch bag with a few new items and removing some items I have found less useful.

One new item I am really impressed with is the Yaesu VX-8GR (http://www.yaesu.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=DisplayProducts&ProdCatID=111&encProdID=9D0EA3E2FB5ED55942E531288EF4C787&DivisionID=65&isArchived=0) 2M/70CM radio with built-in GPS.

http://krikam.net/upload/iblock/7b0/VX-8GR_1.jpg

I have found that I rarely carry a GPS much anymore, as I try to stay proficient with map and compass and find that I am more observant and remember places better when I am not relying on a GPS screen. But I still like to be able to make notes and record locations of unique finds, intersections or campsites.

This radio is sweet for that and serves a dual purpose.

[Chazz Layne]

I have the first version of that (the VX-8R), great radio with surprisingly excellent reception for it's tiny size. Even if you don't use the APRS features it is worth it just for the small size and light weight, long lasting li-ion batteries.

[adriatikfan]

Do any of you guys have/use a satellite phone as part of your kit?

Best Wishes
David

[Scott Brady]

David,

I have brought a Sat phone on all of our major trips, but have just not found a reason to use it. Cell phone coverage is becoming so prolific now that my iPhone works in most places. We have used a BGAN unit quite a few times for data and to get schematics for repairs, etc.

[NuggetHoarder]

Add 10 1/10 ounce Gold American Eagles - that's a total of one ounce of gold - current value today is a little over $1,500. The 1/10 ounce size coins are about the size of a US Dime. Tuck 10 of these away in your ditch bag and you'll have some real emergency money. Hide it well - sew it into the lining of the bag or something similar.

While it's a good idea to carry some cash in your ditch bag, and maybe even some coins in case you have to use a pay phone - it's an even better idea to carry some gold due to it's compactness and the fact that it will work in any country. Gold is the ultimate currency and will enable you to buy your way out of a myriad of bad circumstances.

By the way, United States Air Force and Navy pilots carry British Gold Sovereigns in the survival kit in their vest.

[teotwaki]

Add 10 1/10 ounce Gold American Eagles - that's a total of one ounce of gold - current value today is a little over $1,500. The 1/10 ounce size coins are about the size of a US Dime. Tuck 10 of these away in your ditch bag and you'll have some real emergency money. Hide it well - sew it into the lining of the bag or something similar.

While it's a good idea to carry some cash in your ditch bag, and maybe even some coins in case you have to use a pay phone - it's an even better idea to carry some gold due to it's compactness and the fact that it will work in any country. Gold is the ultimate currency and will enable you to buy your way out of a myriad of bad circumstances.

By the way, United States Air Force and Navy pilots carry British Gold Sovereigns in the survival kit in their vest.

Are the gold coins practical in the lower 48? Carrying some cash is a good idea but $1500 is a lot to have lying around in a ditch bag unless the Zombie Apocalypse is coming.. :ar15: Kidding aside, the coins might be practical in a number of foreign countries. Because of theft problems I'd hesitate to sew all of them into just the bag. Maybe split them up into a coat, hat and the bag?

In the US it might be that $300 and a credit card might be good enough.

[NuggetHoarder]

Because of theft problems I'd hesitate to sew all of them into just the bag. Maybe split them up into a coat, hat and the bag?

In the US it might be that $300 and a credit card might be good enough.

$300 is chump change nowadays. A tow off of the trail by itself might cost over $1,000, and the person towing may not take credit cards, even in the US.

Regarding theft, it's much easier to conceal 10 dime size objects than it is to hide $1,500 in cash. Splitting them between your bag and other items makes sense, but only if you're sure that they get grabbed at the same time as your ditch bag. If you're in a grab and go situation - like your rig is about to be swept down a river - you may only have time to grab one bag. Plus most of us are carrying tens of thousands worth of gear in our rigs and another $1,500 hidden away is hardly a game changer.

Yes, the credit card is a must have, but if you are building a ditch bag, then you're trying to cover more contingencies then aren't you? Gold is the ultimate currency and you can exchange it for cash readily, even in small US towns. Another factor is that gold tends to reassert it's dominance every 20 to 30 years and we're about 10 years into that cycle. Gold is likely to become more widely recognized and more acceptable over the next 10 years as this cycle repeats.

I realize this isn't for everyone, but if you are making a comprehensive bag, then cash (and cash equivalents like gold) should be considered as essential.

[kjp1969]

Yes, the credit card is a must have, but if you are building a ditch bag, then you're trying to cover more contingencies then aren't you? Gold is the ultimate currency and you can exchange it for cash readily, even in small US towns. Another factor is that gold tends to reassert it's dominance every 20 to 30 years and we're about 10 years into that cycle. Gold is likely to become more widely recognized and more acceptable over the next 10 years as this cycle repeats.

A ditch bag is designed around a forseeable emergency like a vehicle fire. How exactly would you use gold coins following such an emergency? I understand that you could find a gold exchange place that could verify authenticity and buy them from you, but how would gold coins be better than greenbacks at the side of the road while you're dealing with a tow truck driver? Or trying to pay for medical services or a hotel?

[NuggetHoarder]

A ditch bag is designed around a forseeable emergency like a vehicle fire. How exactly would you use gold coins following such an emergency? I understand that you could find a gold exchange place that could verify authenticity and buy them from you, but how would gold coins be better than greenbacks at the side of the road while you're dealing with a tow truck driver? Or trying to pay for medical services or a hotel?

Obviously, cash is king, however, if you are carrying a large amount of cash, you are likely to dip into it from time to time. That's just human nature. If you have gold, you'll leave it alone. If you're comfortable carrying a large amount of cash, then go for it. I usually carry several hundred dollars while on the trail, but I also have some gold tucked away just in case I get into something really bad. Using your vehicle fire as an example... Let's say you don't get your bag out in time.. gold is still gold, even if it's melted into a blob while burned up cash will be ashes.

I constantly hear people talk about the lack of convertibility of gold so you are not alone in being a skeptic. As an avid prospector and long time owner of gold I can tell you that the recognition of gold is increasing every day and continues to increase. Gold is money, and it can be readily converted into cash or used for barter. Gold is a far better barter item than say, a Rolex watch or a nice Camera. It might take a day to convert your gold into cash if you can't barter it, but that's the worst case scenario.

[Utah KJ]

Sometimes, survival is all about "sack".

[teotwaki]

Obviously, cash is king, however, if you are carrying a large amount of cash, you are likely to dip into it from time to time. That's just human nature. If you have gold, you'll leave it alone. If you're comfortable carrying a large amount of cash, then go for it. I usually carry several hundred dollars while on the trail, but I also have some gold tucked away just in case I get into something really bad. Using your vehicle fire as an example... Let's say you don't get your bag out in time.. gold is still gold, even if it's melted into a blob while burned up cash will be ashes.

I constantly hear people talk about the lack of convertibility of gold so you are not alone in being a skeptic. As an avid prospector and long time owner of gold I can tell you that the recognition of gold is increasing every day and continues to increase. Gold is money, and it can be readily converted into cash or used for barter. Gold is a far better barter item than say, a Rolex watch or a nice Camera. It might take a day to convert your gold into cash if you can't barter it, but that's the worst case scenario.

I thought the thread was about survival sacks for offroading incidents but now it sounds as if we crossed over into Bug Out Bags. :elkgrin:

[kjp1969]

Obviously, cash is king, however, if you are carrying a large amount of cash, you are likely to dip into it from time to time. That's just human nature. If you have gold, you'll leave it alone. If you're comfortable carrying a large amount of cash, then go for it. I usually carry several hundred dollars while on the trail, but I also have some gold tucked away just in case I get into something really bad. Using your vehicle fire as an example... Let's say you don't get your bag out in time.. gold is still gold, even if it's melted into a blob while burned up cash will be ashes.

I constantly hear people talk about the lack of convertibility of gold so you are not alone in being a skeptic. As an avid prospector and long time owner of gold I can tell you that the recognition of gold is increasing every day and continues to increase. Gold is money, and it can be readily converted into cash or used for barter. Gold is a far better barter item than say, a Rolex watch or a nice Camera. It might take a day to convert your gold into cash if you can't barter it, but that's the worst case scenario.

So you have my attention: How exactly would you pay someone in gold? Or readily convert it to cash? Is it really better some how than cash itself? How would you convince someone who is not an enthusiast like yourself that your coins were legit? If you went to a pawnshop or jewelry shop with one ounce of gold, would they give you the actual trading price of gold on that particular day, or would they give you some portion?

[NuggetHoarder]

So you have my attention: How exactly would you pay someone in gold? Or readily convert it to cash? Is it really better some how than cash itself? How would you convince someone who is not an enthusiast like yourself that your coins were legit? If you went to a pawnshop or jewelry shop with one ounce of gold, would they give you the actual trading price of gold on that particular day, or would they give you some portion?

The first thing to consider is that gold has gone up in price every year for the last 11 years. Since the start of this year, gold has already risen 8% and as long as paper currencies continue to depreciate in value, gold will continue it's upward trend. Gold will not continue it's uptrend forever, however, it looks likely that it will continue to appreciate in value against paper currencies for the next several years, if not the rest of this decade, at least.

The second thing to consider is that it does cost money to produce the coins, and dealers must make some profit, so there will always be a premium over the spot price when you buy a coin. Spot prices that you see on financial websites are the prices for very large certified bars that are sold on large exchanges. Buying in small quantities, like most goods, will cost a bit more. This means you will be taking a hit on the day you buy it, but after a few months, that premium you paid will vanish.

Currently, the spot price for an ounce of gold is $1,546.50. (A year ago it was $1,250). There will be approximately a 4 to 5% premium to buy a one ounce coin from a dealer. The 1/10 ounce coins that I like to carry have a higher premium of around 15 to 20%, however, I like the ability to barter or sell in smaller amounts and the premium is worth it to me. When you attempt to sell them, you will likely receive the spot price or the spot price plus 2 to 3% over spot if selling to a coin shop, jewelry store, pawn shop, commercial smelter, or prospecting supply store.

Internationally, gold has much more recognition than it does in the United States and will be easier to sell. The form of coin you choose will have some importance. If your primary travels will be in Mexico, for instance, then you will be better off carrying Mexican Libertads. In the former British colonies, the British Sovereigns would be more appropriate.

If you are trying to barter your coin with someone who doesn't know it's value, then one option you have is to say to that person: "Here's a half ounce of gold. This is worth at least $x amount dollars. You hold on to this and help tow me out of here, and you and I can go together to a gold shop to make sure you get your cash".

The reason that gold is better to carry than cash? Consider that a roll of gold coins, the size of a roll of dimes, is currently valued at over $7,500 and can be readily converted into that amount of cash within 24 hours or less anywhere in the United States or Canada. That's a lot of money packed into a small space. Gold is also waterproof and fireproof (not completely fireproof, but much more so than paper money) and gold can be easily hidden because of it's compactness. It's also an appreciating asset. Instead of carrying cash that is losing value, you'll be carrying money that is increasing in value. I believe you should still carry some cash, but I feel really safe knowing that I have ready access to enough money to replace an entire engine in some far flung small town if needed, irregardless of whether I have cash or credit cards.

A final note of advice... don't buy from dealers on TV. They charge 40 to 50% premiums and will dog you forever with spam email, phone calls, etc. trying to get you to constantly trade into some other product to increase their sales volume. Either find a local coin shop to work with, or use one of the larger online gold dealers that consistently have low premiums like apmex.com or gainesvillecoins.com or providentmetals.com Personally, I like dealing with a local vendor, and if you are a complete novice, a local coin dealer is your best resource on learning more about your investment.

[Jnich77]

1. Shelter
2. Food
3. Water
4. Communications
5. Warmth
6. Emergency Care
7. Navigation
8. Basic Survival Equipment
9. Signaling
10. Critical Documents


11. Firearm
12. Extra ammo

[teotwaki]

1. Shelter (and shelter construction materials: cord, zip ties, tarp, etc.)
2. Food (rotate it every few months)
3. Water (solar still and other collection items and water purification items: -know how to use them-)
4. Communications (Cell or Sat phone, printed list of phone numbers, also items in "signaling")
5. Warmth (including 3 means to start fires, clothes to handle the environment)
6. Emergency Care (take a wilderness first aid class too)
7. Navigation (take a land navigation class, have suitable compass and paper maps for the area)
8. Basic Survival Equipment (adjust for the environment, includes navigation, signaling, etc.)
9. Signaling (including flares, smoke, mirror, laser pointer, cell, etc.)
10. Critical Documents (make a color copy of both sides of credit cards & ID)
11. Coin of the realm (in a format suitable for the area including items for barter)
12. Tools (multitool, knife, Firearm/ammo with local laws taken into consideration)
13. Footwear (if you are not already wearing something appropriate)

[kjp1969]

The first thing to consider is that gold has gone up in price every year for the last 11 years.

Not so long ago you could say even more impressive things about real estate. :sombrero: But no need to argue, I see your point: Lately Gold has been a good investment.



Currently, the spot price for an ounce of gold is $1,546.50. (A year ago it was $1,250).

Sell!


The reason that gold is better to carry than cash? Consider that a roll of gold coins, the size of a roll of dimes, is currently valued at over $7,500 and can be readily converted into that amount of cash within 24 hours or less anywhere in the United States or Canada. That's a lot of money packed into a small space. Gold is also waterproof and fireproof (not completely fireproof, but much more so than paper money) and gold can be easily hidden because of it's compactness.

Here's the only place I disagree with you- my money in the bank is safe and insured. I might be able to insure gold through the jewelry rider on my homeowner's insurance, but my bank has branches everywhere and cash is readily accessible 24hr/day. When travelling abroad I may carry $500 cash, but I'll take spending money $100 or so at a time from ATMS and use plastic for everything else. I'll be getting a good exchange rate and not worrying about losing the gold.

But I suppose it wouldn't hurt to have a little gold bullion concealed somewhere also. Interesting topic, for sure.

[theksmith]

i love seeing everyone else bag contents, always gives me new ideas....

here's my always-in-the-vehicle emergency bag contents: http://offroadpassport.com/forum/showthread.php?t=573

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_xkFrXZhchqE/S_Wylb4ackI/AAAAAAAANZ8/2Fvbemo89Kk/s800/P1070049.JPG (http://offroadpassport.com/forum/showthread.php?t=573)


the biggest tidbit i got from this thread was in the first post, and confirmed in the more recent river crossing incident post - i'll probably be swapping to a waterproof bag soon. i was impressed with a watershed dry duffel i got recently, so might try one of their backpacks (http://drybags.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=D&Category_Code=Backpacks).

[AmericaOverland]

I did a quick thread search here and didn't find it. Could you add one of those tasers, a length of rope, and a feather to your bag? That way, you can be hiding behind trees and rocks, and take down a threatening-looking person, tie them up, and then let them wake up or regain the ability to speak before tickling their feet for information about nearby lookouts, access to fuel and food, etc.

:sombrero:

I would hold off on carrying THAT much gold, unless your intent is to buy the whole lot of ammunition at a national guard armory with a well-placed bribe. You could carry silver coins like dimes, quarters, half-dollars, and dollars, which are easily recognizable by the public and remember two things - look for a solid light-color reed edge unlike your 1965-and-up coins you have today, and drop one on a hard surface and listen to the way they ring as opposed to your base-metal coins. However, there is the possibility, if sources of information is correct that with silver, you would run into the same problem - silver could end up being valuated the SAME as gold, if not multiples of gold because of industrial usage that has used up nearly all the available aboveground stock of silver in any form, and the USGS also believes that we have maybe 16 years' mining supply of silver left in the ground (silver tends to be found near the ground surface, and there is less and less available the deeper you go). The way things are going, you would probably be able to buy a house with land for a handful or more of either metal.

You may also run into a fairly unique situation in which the dollar has been destroyed to the point that it's simply better to valuate gold/silver in terms of ounces, rather than dollars in which you must constantly watch the dollar market and adjust signs every day (or hour for that matter like it's happened in some countries). For instance, Hugo Salinas Price of México is advocating the return of silver to Mexican coinage so that it can run alongside paper pesos so that the average citizen can afford to use pesos in everyday transactions and use silver Libertads for storing their earnings, and his idea is this - don't put a currency value on any coin to avoid the "flash point" problem. The "flash point" problem happens everywhere you have currency debasement. What happens is that you have say, a silver dime that had a melt value of less than 10 cents per dime (about $1.26 per troy ounce, and there are roughly 14 dimes per troy ounce) back in the day. What happens when the price of silver goes up to $2, 3, 4 an ounce? Suddenly, you have a dime that you can take to the coin shop to be sold merely for melt value, at a price higher than its face value. That means silver coins like these are either hoarded or otherwise taken out of circulation, and debased coins take its place. It's "bad money" chasing out "good money," Gresham's Law.

Leave the currency value off of anything made and sold by humans on Earth, and simply state things like "This shirt is available for 1 ounce and 1 dime of silver plus 30 nickels," or "This small engine is worth 32 ounces of silver and three silver quarters." That way, you eliminate using a government-controlled currency that is always changing, and you keep precious-metal-based coinage from disappearing out of circulation. You also want to eliminate a government-mandated fixed gold/silver ratio because it can be and has been abused by people who knew how to use the natural market rate against the constitutionally fixed rate in order to pick up extra metal without lifting a finger except go to the market and trade for undervalued metal, and go to your bank where you can trade for the overvalued metal, and then go back and repeat it, all day long.

Sorry that I digressed from the topic by half a state... :088:

[teotwaki]

i love seeing everyone else bag contents, always gives me new ideas....

here's my always-in-the-vehicle emergency bag contents: http://offroadpassport.com/forum/showthread.php?t=573

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_xkFrXZhchqE/S_Wylb4ackI/AAAAAAAANZ8/2Fvbemo89Kk/s800/P1070049.JPG (http://offroadpassport.com/forum/showthread.php?t=573)


the biggest tidbit i got from this thread was in the first post, and confirmed in the more recent river crossing incident post - i'll probably be swapping to a waterproof bag soon. i was impressed with a watershed dry duffel i got recently, so might try one of their backpacks (http://drybags.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=D&Category_Code=Backpacks).


I like photos! Especially on-topic. Thanks!

Instead of getting an entirely new bag that is waterproof, how about lightweight waterproof bags for the important things?

http://www.rei.com/gear/feature/search/Google/dry%20bag?s_kwcid=TC|13029|dry%20bags||S|p|6867987 965&cm_mmc=ps_google_CH-_-Category%20-%20Paddling_TOF-_-Paddling_Dry_Bags_General-_-dry%20bags&gclid=CLal7IG0yqkCFcYE2godTSIlMw

[kjp1969]

1. Shelter (and shelter construction materials: cord, zip ties, tarp, etc.)
2. Food (rotate it every few months)
3. Water (solar still and other collection items and water purification items: -know how to use them-)
4. Communications (Cell or Sat phone, printed list of phone numbers, also items in "signaling")
5. Warmth (including 3 means to start fires, clothes to handle the environment)
6. Emergency Care (take a wilderness first aid class too)
7. Navigation (take a land navigation class, have suitable compass and paper maps for the area)
8. Basic Survival Equipment (adjust for the environment, includes navigation, signaling, etc.)
9. Signaling (including flares, smoke, mirror, laser pointer, cell, etc.)
10. Critical Documents (make a color copy of both sides of credit cards & ID)
11. Coin of the realm (in a format suitable for the area including items for barter)
12. Tools (multitool, knife, Firearm/ammo with local laws taken into consideration)
13. Footwear (if you are not already wearing something appropriate)

14. Bourbon. If things are so bad that I need to walk out, I'll want a drink.

[NuggetHoarder]

Here's the only place I disagree with you- my money in the bank is safe and insured. I might be able to insure gold through the jewelry rider on my homeowner's insurance, but my bank has branches everywhere and cash is readily accessible 24hr/day. When travelling abroad I may carry $500 cash, but I'll take spending money $100 or so at a time from ATMS and use plastic for everything else. I'll be getting a good exchange rate and not worrying about losing the gold.

But I suppose it wouldn't hurt to have a little gold bullion concealed somewhere also. Interesting topic, for sure.

I totally agree with you that if you're out on the trail and need money the best and first line of support to get out of trouble is going to be cash and credit cards. I'm right there with you on that point. What if your cash and cards are stolen or destroyed? What is your next go to? Is it a phone call to relatives to wire you money? If you've got that luxury then that's great. After cash and credit cards, my next go to would be some gold I have hidden away since I don't have the luxury of a family to call back home for logistical support.

[teotwaki]

I totally agree with you that if you're out on the trail and need money the best and first line of support to get out of trouble is going to be cash and credit cards. I'm right there with you on that point. What if your cash and cards are stolen or destroyed? What is your next go to? Is it a phone call to relatives to wire you money? If you've got that luxury then that's great. After cash and credit cards, my next go to would be some gold I have hidden away since I don't have the luxury of a family to call back home for logistical support.

Push one of two buttons on my SPOT II: custom message or 911

[NuggetHoarder]

Push one of two buttons on my SPOT II: custom message or 911

I have a SPOT also. Using the rescue feature on your SPOT will only get YOU rescued, not your rig. If you need to rescue your rig, you're probably gonna need money.

[AmericaOverland]

14. Bourbon. If things are so bad that I need to walk out, I'll want a drink.

Kevin, DON'T DO IT!! You need the sharpness and quickness of sobriety. Channel that anger into the need to move quickly AND accurately. I'd rather be so angry that all the Gods will bow before me than be drunk and DEAD. I can't do a thing if I'm dead. I'd just have to say, "Heck with it" and detonate the core of this earth, just wipe this sector clean and never do it again. This was a bad mistake, you know... WHAT was I thinking?

If you're going to do that, do that in the safety of people who are on guard duty for several hours before you have to take on your guard shift. You cannot risk making a strategic mistake. NOT ONE.

[kjp1969]

Kevin, DON'T DO IT!! You need the sharpness and quickness of sobriety. Channel that anger into the need to move quickly AND accurately. I'd rather be so angry that all the Gods will bow before me than be drunk and DEAD. I can't do a thing if I'm dead. I'd just have to say, "Heck with it" and detonate the core of this earth, just wipe this sector clean and never do it again. This was a bad mistake, you know... WHAT was I thinking?

If you're going to do that, do that in the safety of people who are on guard duty for several hours before you have to take on your guard shift. You cannot risk making a strategic mistake. NOT ONE.

Whoa girl.
Tequila, then.

[teotwaki]

I have a SPOT also. Using the rescue feature on your SPOT will only get YOU rescued, not your rig. If you need to rescue your rig, you're probably gonna need money.

My Spot-II has 3 buttons total that count. One is the "911". One is the "OK". One is custom programmable so that it can be my "Rig Rescue Needed" button.

EDIT: or program it to say "I have $1500 in gold coin" :-)

[Bogo]

Kevin, DON'T DO IT!! You need the sharpness and quickness of sobriety. Channel that anger into the need to move quickly AND accurately. I'd rather be so angry that all the Gods will bow before me than be drunk and DEAD. I can't do a thing if I'm dead. I'd just have to say, "Heck with it" and detonate the core of this earth, just wipe this sector clean and never do it again. This was a bad mistake, you know... WHAT was I thinking?

If you're going to do that, do that in the safety of people who are on guard duty for several hours before you have to take on your guard shift. You cannot risk making a strategic mistake. NOT ONE.Yes, but think of all the fun he'll have rotating that bourbon out to keep the supply in the bag fresh.;)

[Chazz Layne]

Fine liquor is good for barter too. I also keep a small flask in the kit to offer bribes or pass time as needed. :D

As with anything - moderation is key.

[Honu]

Americaoverland has a good point on value :)
Gold silver is great to have but for me it's more long term controlled than emergency short term and if things are so bad ? That's a dif thread :)
But everyone has to pack what they want to be comfy

For me short term getting home no collapse of society
Basic lists with some modern currency would be my choice and always gun and ammo
Having kids a few luxury kid things and their fav stuffed animal

[Basement Yeti]

I'm building a survival/bug out bag for myself, I've been teaching myself how to use the items and how to set traps (I would give up Veganism in a survival situation) I need to buy a backpack still but haven't found one I like or that is affordable/suitable so as of now it's in a nylon sling bag.

Here is what I have.
A compass
Fire steel
Two lighters
A small bottle of bleach.
3 Days of sealed sterilized water packets.
A 40oz Wide mouth stainless steel bottle filled with beans and rice
A few bags of nuts, a few Cliff bars, and some dried fruit
A few packets of peanut butter (For trapping)
15 multivitamins
Emergency blanket
Roll of duct tape
Pencil/Pen
Waterproof paper pad
A 10x10 nylon tarp
2 large thick black garbage bag
2 gallon sized zip lock bags
100 feet of 550# paracord
Climbing carabiner
Ball less 120db whistle
Signal mirror
Leatherman Blast
100 lux headlamp
Small 10 lux zipper flashlight
Spare batteries for both
4 10 hour glowsticks
Mil spec snare wire
80lb fishing line and fishing hooks
Small sewing kit
5 number 2 scalpel blades
Various size gauze pads
Alcohol wipes/4oz Hand sanitizer bottle
Tube of antiseptic cream
3 pairs nitrate gloves
Burn cream packets
Bottle of suntan lotion
Suture kits
Bottle of Excedrin migraine strength
Tweezers/Scissors
Ace bandage
Few hundred dollars (Want to add some gold eventually)
20 Ostomy bag changes
Seasonal clothing, warm hat/gloves/socks/boonie hat, etc.
Passport/old ID/birth certificate/social security card
Some important numbers

I want to add a Platypus water bladder and Katadyn water filter too.

[southpier]

Whoa girl.
Tequila, then.



decaf, then

[theksmith]

I'm building a survival/bug out bag for myself, I've been teaching myself how to use the items and how to set traps (I would give up Veganism in a survival situation) I need to buy a backpack still but haven't found one I like or that is affordable/suitable so as of now it's in a nylon sling bag.

check out rei-outlet, sometimes good closeout deals on backpacks

[mudbutt]

Here is what I have......

A 40oz Wide mouth stainless steel bottle filled with beans and rice....

That is a great idea.....


I want to add a Platypus water bladder.....

That's what I have..... MUCH better than a condom! LOL!


Also I use a NATO style rucksack for my stuff. I think I paid >$30.00 for mine..... Works great for me. If you do use one, avoid the cheap ones, they're junk.

[Basement Yeti]

check out rei-outlet, sometimes good closeout deals on backpacks

I have been popping into Army Navy stores to see what they have for Mole equipment, that is a good idea.


That is a great idea.....


That's what I have..... MUCH better than a condom! LOL!


Also I use a NATO style rucksack for my stuff. I think I paid >$30.00 for mine..... Works great for me. If you do use one, avoid the cheap ones, they're junk.

Oh cool, that is totally within my range and looks stout.

I have been getting lots of e-books and library books on survivalism as well as from survivalist forums. I'm currently trying to learn as much as I can about wild edibles in the desert which is where i'd bug out to in an emergency.

You can boil water in the canteen and cook in it but it also holds A LOT of calories if you combine it with wild edibles/game/ etc.

I try to follow the rule of 3s for my important functions. 3 forms of water purification, 3 forms of fire/warmth, 3 forms of shelter, 3 forms of obtaining food, 3 forms of mending wounds. etc.

Humans can survive fine without food for a few weeks to months, but you get in big trouble without vitamins and minerals and water, hence the multis. Grind em up and mix them into water, better absorption during starvation. I'll be adding more, maybe a powder form to save space/hassle.

Another thing I am going to add on my run to Home Depot is super glue. You can glue small to medium wounds together with it, make makeshift weapons stronger, patch holes in clothes and shelters, etc. Plus, some are very flammable. You can also use it to mend thoes platypus bladders. Also going to throw a few nails in there for traps and building shelter.

I just downloaded this chart that has degrees of declination, I folded it up and keep it in my BOB. I have memorized a few DODs for the areas I live and frequent often. I'm getting better at using my compass and topo maps. My next investment will be paper topo maps (I have been using my GPS).

I met a guy who keeps a small folding bike attached to his BOB for quiet escapes. He taught me how to make a bow drill, but that crap is wicked complicated and tough for fire.

Oh, I forgot to add I keep instant coffee and tea in my BOB. Everyone says it's weird but I just could not do without my coffee and tea even when SHTF.

Oh, one last thing, I just bought one of these to attach to my seat belt, every over lander should have one or two, or three! The window smasher looks kinda crummy so I am on the lookout for a better one I can lanyard to my seat buckle.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Swiss-Tech-BodyGard-5-in-1-Emergency-Tool/15135621

[chet]

I have a semi prepared bag in my cruiser that has basic things like change of clothes, mre's, fire starter, shelter tarp etc. funny thing is I was joking with my wife that she had more in here purse and it was true! Damn she could survive for a week on what was in there. 8 granola bars, 2 apples, 2 lighters, spare socks for her and our son, water bottle, knife and bunch of other crap! No wonder she has a bad back! :D

[xj joey]

This is I think the best website for info on this stuff. http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=14
The entire forum is great too.

[Lichen]

Anyone have any experience using this Bear Grylls "ultimate survival knife?" I'm thinking of getting one but would like to hear from more seasoned gear heads. Thx in advance!

Here's the link: http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=784457

It may not launch automatically, so please copy/paste to your browser.

The link didn't work, but I bought the BG knife through Amazon.com. For the price, it's a pretty good deal. Not the best knife that I own, but the sheath with the fire striker and sharpening stone are nice touches.

[Basement Yeti]

Speaking of knife sharpening. I've removed my knife sharpener from my bag since learning how to sharpen a blade on a smooth rock. Good skill to have, even if you keep your sharpener, just in case you lose it. Nothing worse than a dull knife!

[StumpXJ]

Reminds me of the movie 127 hours... sure, you can sharpen a knife on a rock, but it had better be a good knife! (if you havent seen the movie... you should. Its pretty good!)

[washington taco]

Benchmade makes a real nice seat belt cutter/window punch/ LED light and its only 30.00 bucks.

[DaveInDenver]

Another thing I am going to add on my run to Home Depot is super glue. You can glue small to medium wounds together with it
So true! We used super glue all the time climbing to close cuts (we figured that out almost 20 years ago) and I've had them use it instead of stitches on ER visits.

[grizzlyj]

What proportion of this forum insists on firearms and camoflage with everything?!?!

Good thread though :)

I suppose all of you experienced lot know whats in it already, but

Cody Lundin's book

"98.6 the Art of Keeping Your *** Alive"

# ISBN-10: 9781586852344
# ISBN-13: 978-1586852344

is simple and good to the point you'll lend it to all your friends, and maybe keep it in the truck. I think it was there that I read the average rescue is three days, so any effort in carrying/hunting/killing/cooking food is a waste, you just don't (on average don't forget!) need to.

His emphasis, as the title suggests, is maintaining your body temperature. If you leap into action setting traps, but forget a fire and shelter from the elements, you won't last the night.

One thing I could add to the wealth of previous info, suggested in his book, is dental floss :) The stuff is bonkers strong, and a 30m roll once out of the box is teeny.

Happy travels

:)

[theksmith]

I suppose all of you experienced lot know whats in it already, but

Cody Lundin's book

"98.6 the Art of Keeping Your *** Alive"

# ISBN-10: 9781586852344
# ISBN-13: 978-1586852344

is simple and good to the point you'll lend it to all your friends, and maybe keep it in the truck. I think it was there that I read the average rescue is three days, so any effort in carrying/hunting/killing/cooking food is a waste, you just don't (on average don't forget!) need to.


i actually have the SAS Survival Guide Handbook (http://www.amazon.com/SAS-Survival-Guide-Handbook-Collins/dp/0060849827) in my bag, it's 4.5" x 3" x 1", so it takes up little room and has practical survival info it, but i figured it also gives you something to read to help keep your wits about you instead of going mad while waiting for rescue. along the same lines i keep a new, unread jeep magazine in there all folded up.

[Basement Yeti]

Lately I have been honing my survival skills and mastering the items in my BOB. Since I live in my van I have started kitting my van out as a BOV, preparing it for a survival situation, even as just a non-mobile shelter.

I have been picking up extra tools every time I go to O'Reilly, and downloading technical manuals on my van, and reading up on maintenance/repairs. I need to learn how to change spark plugs, wires, and caps, and measure out the right gap, flush transmission, change filter, do brakes, tire rotations, and things like that.

Here is a partial list of things I want for my van. You will notice things I doubled up on that are in my BOB.

Spare Parts Required
Lucas Fuel Injector Cleaner x2
10qts of Mobil 1 5W30 Synthetic Motor Oil
1 Gallon of 50/50 Dexcool(Bought)
Serpentine Belt x 1
Spark Plugs x 6
Fuel Filter x 2
Spare Running Light(s) and Signal Bulb(s)
Slime Fix-a-flat(Bought)
Wire Ties(Bought)
Zip Ties(Bought)

Tools Required
Breaker bar and 22mm socket (Bought)
Socket Extensions for 3/4" and 1/2"
Spark Plug Gap Tool(Bought)
Digital Multimeter

Equipment Required
Q Industries MV50 SuperFlow Hi-Volume Air Compressor
60w Solar Panel/MorningStar SSD-25/15' 10 AWG M4 Cable/12' Tilt Mounts(Bought)
1x Full Size Spare Tire and cover
Tow Straps, Tow Chains, and Tire Chains

Supplies Required
1 Gallon of Bleach (Bought)
1 Gallon of Dish Soap(Bought)
1 Gallon of Mouth Wash(Bought)
5 Tubes of Toothpaste(Bought)
Shampoo(s)(Bought)
Conditioner(s)(Bought)
Katadyn Combi Water Filter /Spare Filter
Gas Mask/Spare Filter
Ka-bar Kukri
Box of 40 Gallon Tough Garbage Bags(Bought)
Box of 1 Gallon Zip Lock Bags(Bought)
Peroxide(Bought)
Large Size Hand Sanitizer(Bought)
Various Size Gauze Pads
Duct Tape(Bought)
#2 Scalpel(s)
Suture Kit(s)
Burn Ointment Packets(s)
Latex Free Gloves(Bought)
Box of Lighters (Bought)
(Dry food, list to be determined)
1 Case of Water (Bought)

I am still honing my list and reading up a bit more. But I have acquired a bunch of stuff on it. The basics.

Weapons. I currently have no way to defend myself besides a hatchet and a pocket knife. I am researching the legality of compound bows, mace, and tasers until I relocate to a more gun friendly state.

[Bogo]

Forget mace, get a couple cans of true bear spray. Make sure it is rated as bear spray by the EPA or Canadian authorities. The cans are big, roughly 2" diameter and 8" tall and will shoot 25 plus feet and for 8 plus seconds. They need to to be effective against bears. Against humans they are much more effective than the small mace sprays. Note: Some mace compounds have zero effect on bears. The pepper spray used in bear sprays is one of the few that has an effect on bears. Get holsters for when you are hiking. When hiking in bear territory you want it available for use in seconds. You don't have time to dig in your pack.

Counter Assault bear spray at REI: http://www.rei.com/product/722005/counter-assault-bear-deterrent-spray-290g

For countries other than Canada and USA, check the laws. Many consider anti personnel and anti animal sprays a weapon. In fact Canada doesn't allow it's use against humans, but does allow it's use against bears and dogs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_spray

For those with restrictions against anti personnel and animal sprays, get a couple cans of RAID wasp and hornet killer spray. http://www.amazon.com/Hornet-Killer-Ounce-94898JD-Category/dp/B0002ZW88K Sprays 20 feet and is quite effective when you hit the eyes.

[Basement Yeti]

It's not bears I am worried about, it's people. I'm not very wary of people now, just cautious. But if SHTF, people get desperate, and aggressive.

It's illegal to use that stuff against humans. It can cause throats and air passages to swell and asphyxiate people.

I don't know if I even want a gun. I don't think I could live with myself for killing another human.

I think a stun gun or some other non-lethal weapon might be in order.

[teotwaki]

I think a stun gun or some other non-lethal weapon might be in order.

Stockpile batteries, recharging setups and those little wire-thingy reloads?

[Junior's 12 Valve]

I don't know if I even want a gun. I don't think I could live with myself for killing another human.

I think a stun gun or some other non-lethal weapon might be in order.

Why no gun? If you have a problem with shooting someone, then just don't shoot someone. Why throw away a tool that can get you food easiest, cheapest, and least labor intensive?

I would rather shoot someone than be shot/robbed/whatever.

I really don't understand your logic.

[Flounder]

Cody Lundin's book

"98.6 the Art of Keeping Your *** Alive"

:)

I've known Cody since the mid 90s here in Prescott when he was just starting his business teaching aboriginal living skills. As Prescott residents, we'd cross paths now and then, and he still purchases some of his clothing at the outdoor store where I work. Long story short, I've known Cody for a very long time. I have to say, only recently has he been viewed as an expert. For years he was to many just a shoe-less crack pot wandering Prescott. The guy is very, very skilled. As you said, his survival skills are designed to get you through a few tough days while help arrives. His aboriginal skills courses are far more intensive.

[teotwaki]

Why no gun? If you have a problem with shooting someone, then just don't shoot someone. Why throw away a tool that can get you food easiest, cheapest, and least labor intensive?

I would rather shoot someone than be shot/robbed/whatever.

I really don't understand your logic.

Maybe jack rabbits can be Tasered too? :elkgrin:

I figure that if there was a true end of world event that Basement Yeti will soon be looking for a firearm from someone that he knows has a stockpile :ylsmoke:.

[mudbutt]

..... For years he was to many just a shoe-less crack pot wandering Prescott....

Though I know Cody only from what I've seen on the boob-tube, I'd say he's still a shoe-less crack pot.....

If ever I were in a dire survival situation I can't think of anyone I'd rather have with me though....

[B.L. Sims]

Why no gun? If you have a problem with shooting someone, then just don't shoot someone. Why throw away a tool that can get you food easiest, cheapest, and least labor intensive?

I would rather shoot someone than be shot/robbed/whatever.

I really don't understand your logic.

Let me preface this with the fact that I take on a "prepared" mindset. That means I own firearms, carry one daily, keep spare food, ammo, water, and other items put back in case of unforseen events.

But, people are free to be as over or under prepared as they want to be. Personally, none of my "preps" dont include at least one firearm. The 2a said you have the right to bear arms- its not a requirement to do so. If he choses not to own or carry a firearm im not going to begrudge him and I urge others not to either. Everyone has to make their own decisions based on their experienced or their perceived experiences.

I too would rather use force (legally) against someone who was using or intended to use force to cause me serious bodily harm. I dont and cannot understand the logic of being helpless against an attacker so I cant even try to speculate.

As long as it neither picks my pocket, breaks my leg, or takes food from me or my family im prepared not to care. Some might be inclined to think "oh well, he carries a gun everywhere! He must be always on the lookout for trouble, paranoid, on the offense". If people really knew how many of their neighbors, bosses, co-workers, fellow commuters, school teachers, preachers, etc do arm themselves it would put a stop to this silly notion.

In reference to the above, BOB's, Go bags, Grab-n-go's, survival packs, whatever you call them- people are prepared to ridicule right up untill you save the day using one. Same goes for pocket knives. *Gasp* but why would you need to carry a knife everywhere? (rolls eyes)

[Schattenjager]

Havent re-read the entire thread, so please forgive me if this is a repeat - but I have recently added a small cordless drill and a box of long wood screws. Could really speed up a shelter construction and would certainly make it more durable. Same would apply for a gurney etc. Idea brought to you by my mom!

[Basement Yeti]

Oh, I plan to get a rifle. For at least game hunting. I hunted and trapped when I was a kid and would give up Veganism in a heart beat to survive. I would not throw away a powerful tool like that.

But honestly, I am a pacifist. I've worked very hard to achieve peace and serenity in my life. I do not know if I could kill another sentient being and not destroy myself. However, this is like trying to predict when an asteroid will hit Earth. It's impossible, I do not know how I'd react if forced to destroy another human life, or what affect it would have on me. When it comes time to pull that trigger, what will happen before and after, if anything?

Sure I would love to survive, but can I?

Part of me wants to be prepared to take another human life to save my own, or a family members, or a friend. I am just not sure it's there. I have been talking to my brother in law who is in the military about this.

[teotwaki]

Havent re-read the entire thread, so please forgive me if this is a repeat - but I have recently added a small cordless drill and a box of long wood screws. Could really speed up a shelter construction and would certainly make it more durable. Same would apply for a gurney etc. Idea brought to you by my mom!

I had one instance of a 3 day electricity outage. Because I did not have a generator I bought an old fashioned "eggbeater" hand drill to handle a few tasks.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/MillersFalls1.jpg

[Utah KJ]

Being the the baddest mofo in the valley brings one peace and serenity (Adapted from "Pulp Fiction").