bike beginner

[98sr5]

ok im new to bikes and want to get a dirt bike/commuter for riding around its gotta be street legal and be offroadable. what are your guys thoughts on this what would be a good beginner bike for cheap like 3-4000. my reasoning is its cheaper and more fun to get a bike then a corolla or something else for a commuter. the speed limit on the roads i travel on are like 55 tops.

[WhereTheHellIsJames?]

I’m not a big fan of the ‘dual sport’ bikes available from most of the manufacturers, so I can’t really recommend a bike to you that is ready for both off-road and street use right out the door. However, I might recommend a four-stroke off-road bike, then going through the process of legalizing it for street use. Depending on your state’s laws, this process can vary from pretty easy (such as adding a Baja kit and some DOT tires) to nearly impossible.

I have a Honda CRF 250X, and have found it to be a reliable and capable bike both off and on road. With your budget, you should be able to pick one up that is only a couple of years old.

[goodtimes]

How much on road vs how much off road?

Quantify "off road". (blowing down single track, cruising down forest roads, something in between?)

How far between gas stations while off road?

Anything you just "can't live without"?

General rule of thumb: All bikes are fun. Some are more fun off road than others...but those which are more fun off road tend to be less fun on the road. Off road light and tall is good...on the road, heavy and low is good. Get something that has a range compatible with what you need...but don't forget about aftermarket tanks...

I am very happy with my BMW, but I spend probably 75% of my time on the pavement (commuting), and when I am in the dirt, it is usually forest roads, which somewhat resemble real roads...so a heavy bike with a less than inspiring suspension does fine.


As with most things, there is no one "right" answer.

[98sr5]

its probably gonna be maybe half and half. i live in florida so we got some dirtbike places that are mostly forest trails and sand sand sand. im mostly thinking a tw200 just something to mess around with and ride around the area with then take to croom which is like 10000 acres of riding. or maybe i should just get a straight up off road dirtbike idk what are some of the best bikes right now reliability wise

[flux]

Look hard at a DRZ400. Good all around bike, reliable, and easy to find a cheap one. It is a good compromise. In my opinion, eventually you'll want something else but it is a good one to start with and big enough to stay on for a good while.

[WhereTheHellIsJames?]

It’s really tough to get a bike that’s great for both on and off road, and in my opinion most dual sport bikes aren’t that goodt for either one. Like goodtimes suggests, think about how much on roar and how much off road ridding you’ll do. I’m a big fan of Honda’s and KTM’s, and I’d suggest looking at XR 650L. Also, if you looked through the latest Overland Journal, pg 81, you’d see an article about a 2003 KTM 640 Adventure… looks like a great setup, and in my opinion would be a best-case bike.

Whatever way you go, I’d suggest first determining a set of criteria that will make the bike most useful for you, and then go look at many different models to determine which bike will fulfill the most of your goals. There will be no bike that fulfills everything, but you’ll soon figure out which direction to take.

Another tip- if you’re going to be riding primarily on-road, then a bike with a larger displacement would likely work to your advantage, where as off-road, a 250cc four stroke will work great for a 190lb rider. Again- getting a bike that is great for both the street and off road is near impossible, and there will be sacrifices for each situation.

:roost:

[Kermit]

....getting a bike that is great for both the street and off road is near impossible, and there will be sacrifices for each situation.

:roost:


I guess you never ridden a KTM 950 Super Enduro....Yee Haw!!! Will tear up the tarmac and the dirt. ;)

98sr5:

Yep, just keep it simple, get something you'll thrash on. Best way to become a great motorcyclist, is to start in the dirt. Worry about a daul sport (street) later. Use the truck to commute.

Riding in the dirt first, will get you used the bike sliding around and such. Then once you learn that, moving on to pavement riding is almost like cheating...'Hey look ma, traction!"

My vote is a Honda XR 400, aircooled and damn near bomb proof. One of the best beginner bikes out there. If that is too big, they make them smaller a XR250 or XR230 would be perfect too. I know a guy who is an expert rider that rides a XR230, he romps on the guys with high dollar race scoots. The late models are called CRF now, still the same as the XR's of old, just different plastic.

There is an ol' saying..."It ain't the bike, it's the rider."

http://industryfigure.com/berkeley/mx/2003crf230f.jpg

[Hltoppr]

DRZ400 with electric start, Honda XR650L, DR650, DR350...all good choices, and can be easily had within your price limits. I'm looking for a DR/XRL 650 to take to Mexico here in a couple of months....the 650 is a great compromise between off road prowess and on road cruising...

-H-

[MuddyMudskipper]

its probably gonna be maybe half and half. i live in florida so we got some dirtbike places that are mostly forest trails and sand sand sand. im mostly thinking a tw200 just something to mess around with and ride around the area with then take to croom which is like 10000 acres of riding. or maybe i should just get a straight up off road dirtbike idk what are some of the best bikes right now reliability wise

I think the TW200 is a bit too small and underpowered for anything beyond cruising around camp. I also think you will outgrow the TW200 quickly, if you don't get run over by traffic first (its slowwwww).

The DRz400 isn't very intimidating and very easy to learn on without outgrowing it too quickly. The SM version comes with better front forks but it comes with smaller rims and street tires only. However, you can get a set of take-off dirt rims on eBay for pretty cheap.

[Kermit]

...., Honda XR650L, DR650,-


Man, I don't know...those 650's are tall top heavy bikes for a beginner.

[flux]

Honda 650's can be a handful for a beginner...they ARE better on the road, though, but their weight can really be felt in the woods.

[WhereTheHellIsJames?]

I guess you never ridden a KTM 950 Super Enduro....Yee Haw!!! Will tear up the tarmac and the dirt. ;)
True- never have ridden one. However, I'd be willing to bet that if I was in an off-road race with someone of comparable skill level; they are riding the 950SE and I am on my CRF 250X, I'd win.

There are compromises with dual-sport bikes. For instance, the 950SE weighs a lot more than my bike, and would not be able to keep up with me on single tracks through the woods. Plus the rider on that bike would be getting beat up pretty bad on a typical off-road trail.

On the flip side, if we were racing on the street, I'd get spanked! - there's no way that my 250X could keep up with the 950SE through town, and especially on the highway.

What it comes down to is that there are a totally diferent set of criteria for what makes a great off-road bike, and what makes a great on-road bike, and there will need to be compromises on both ends for a dual-sport bike.

Dual-sports are a lot like the Chevy El Camino or the Ford Ranchero: Half car, half truck, not really useful as either one.



The late models are called CRF now, still the same as the XR's of old, just different plastic.
The CRF is now what Honda calls most of their off-road/motorcross bikes, but there are great differences between them. Some are air colled "woods bikes" While some are liquid-cooled motocross bikes.

[98sr5]

yeah im looking at more of a woods bike not a race bike ive seen and felt the weight of a 450 they are pretty heavy for me those things are a handful i actually went trail riding with a yamah 450 and honda 450 and looked like they took alot of skill. im probably looking at anything below a 250 leaning towards a 125 actuallly i dont want it to burn a too big a hole in my walllet.

[WhereTheHellIsJames?]

98sr5:

As far as what you’re looking for, I just remembered two bikes. I used to have a Honda XR250L, and that would make an excellent beginner DS bike. Also a friend had a Suzuki DR350 that he really liked.


Both of those bikes could be easily had for less than $2500 (used of course, since I don't think either one are still in production), and both would be decent on mild trails, as well as on the street at ‘lower than freeway’ speeds.

[Flounder]

I rode an XR650L Honda for a couple years. Nice bike. I'm a taller dude, so the seat hieght that bothered some wasn't a big deal for me. She's a little piggy off road if it gets technical, but on gravel roads and pavement it was a nice bike. I didn't think twice about taking that rig 60 miles on pavement to get to fun off road stuff. Pretty basic machine and the build quality was from the post Jurasic era...slightly. Nothing remotely like my BMW or Ducati bikes I've owned.

Your big challenge as a new rider is knowing what type of riding you'll eventually like most. For me, I'm not fond of real technical riding...nor am I any good at it.

[grahamfitter]

I'm in the same beginner situation - looking for a bike - with a mission to ride to Laborador. There are two things I've heard again and again: Firstly, your first bike won't be your last. Secondly, you won't know what you want until you've been riding for a while.

I think it makes sense to get an older cheaper bike first and sell it when everything becomes clear. Or keep it.

I'm looking to start small and light: A DR200/250/350 or XT225/350. I can put both feet comfortably on the ground on a DR200. I sat on a DRZ400 and with my 5'7 and 30" inseam it feels really heavy tilting the bike over to get a foot down. Apparently a DR650 is between the two for seat height but heavier. Of course I have no idea what that really means...

Cheers,
Graham

[goodtimes]

I sat on a DRZ400 and with my 5'7 and 30" inseam it feels really heavy tilting the bike over to get a foot down.

Don't lean the bike over to get a foot on the ground....slide your butt off to one side of the seat...that will gain you plenty of inseam.

[flux]

Yeah, the DR350 is a good starter bike. Personally I would look for one with electric start. That being said, I have a buddy who is selling a nice kicker. ;) They are pretty easy to find, too.

We used to have an XT225 and it was just a little too small for my tastes. But it was a nice reliable simple bike. My brother learned how to ride on it and it suited him well but he outgrew it quickly.

[Kermit]

The CRF is now what Honda calls most of their off-road/motorcross bikes, but there are great differences between them. Some are air colled "woods bikes" While some are liquid-cooled motocross bikes.


Yep, I know, I had a CRF450R at one time. Why Honda starting calling the old XR's, CRF's when they did the palstic redo...I have no idea...kinda lame if you ask me.




Dual-sports are a lot like the Chevy El Camino or the Ford Ranchero: Half car, half truck, not really useful as either one.



Seriously, if you get a chance throw a leg over a 950SE, I think you can have both. It will never be a single track demon, but, if you could only have one bike, I think it is it. Throw some supermoto wheels on for long pavement rides, great dual sport bike! My buddies raced one in Baja. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=290307 I am riding with Tim this weekend. He was keeping times with the A guys on 450's, on the escargot course the last National on a 990 ADV. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhowXDAzY3o The loud mouth on the video is my buddy Bob.

[cpg]

[QUOTE=Kermit]Yep, I know, I had a CRF450R at one time. [QUOTE]

How does it compare to the 450?

[Kermit]

[QUOTE=Kermit]Yep, I know, I had a CRF450R at one time. [QUOTE]

How does it compare to the 450?

Which 450?

I have a KTM 300XC now, never going back to a 4-stroke dirt bike, unless a gun is pointed at my head. ;)...even then, I would put up a fight. I would however like a 4-stroke for Baja, it is a pain to carry oil. Maybe the 09 Husaberg....they look sweet, should handle quite well too.

I really liked that Honda, but, the maintenance and weight are the major drawbacks. I had that and a WR450, after rebuilding their topends and fussing with valve adjustments....I went back to 2-strokes. The 300 is a great bike, loads of torque and flat out power, ease maintenance, top ends are cheap ($200) compared to the new generation 4-strokes.

I know a lot of guys who bought the 450's are going back to 2-strokes. I pretty much like all brands, but, the KTM's are like works of art. Highly adjustable too, three differnt springs for the power valve, plus you can fine tune each spring tension, for different types of terrian. Plus dual CDI map, the low setting takes the bark out of the motor, so in low traction terrian, you'll get less wheel spin. Very happy with this bike.

[cpg]

[QUOTE=cpg][QUOTE=Kermit]Yep, I know, I had a CRF450R at one time.

Which 450? The CRF 450 you had

I have a KTM 300XC now, never going back to a 4-stroke dirt bike, unless a gun is pointed at my head. ;)...even then, I would put up a fight. I would however like a 4-stroke for Baja, it is a pain to carry oil. Maybe the 09 Husaberg....they look sweet, should handle quite well too.

I really liked that Honda, but, the maintenance and weight are the major drawbacks. I had that and a WR450, after rebuilding their topends and fussing with valve adjustments....I went back to 2-strokes. The 300 is a great bike, loads of torque and flat out power, ease maintenance, top ends are cheap ($200) compared to the new generation 4-strokes.

I know a lot of guys who bought the 450's are going back to 2-strokes. I pretty much like all brands, but, the KTM's are like works of art. Highly adjustable too, three differnt springs for the power valve, plus you can fine tune each spring tension, for different types of terrian. Plus dual CDI map, the low setting takes the bark out of the motor, so in low traction terrian, you'll get less wheel spin. Very happy with this bike.

[Kermit]

CPG:

Are you asking how the 950SE compares to the Honda 450?

[grahamfitter]

Don't lean the bike over to get a foot on the ground....slide your butt off to one side of the seat...that will gain you plenty of inseam.

I know nothing so I just followed the dealer's instructions - lean the bike and weight the uphill peg - actually I was a bit worried I'd drop the thing and set off an expensive domino topple! Both dealers I went to gave me completely different "what bike" advice so its hard to trust either of them given I don't know what I don't know.

Cheers,
Graham

[cpg]

CPG:

Are you asking how the 950SE compares to the Honda 450?

Yes

[Kermit]

Yes

You're a man of few words...:D...eh?

Sorry, hard to tell what you were asking over the net.

They are two completely different beasts, the 450 will excell in the tight, the 950 in the wide open. I was shocked how well the 950 handled....and power...well, it might been a bit much. If you wack the throttle open, the rear tire will break loose, then try to come around on you. For aggresive riding, you have to stand, try to keep it pointed straight, and let the rear swap a bit.

It's a big bike, but, wasn't so big that I felt uncomfortable, felt very KTMish, like a rather large 525. I am only 5'8" with a 30" inseam, I didn't have a problem with it's tall seat height. Tim Hilslamer is slightly shorter than me, he didn't have a problem with it either racing in Baja. (He is a Arizona Semi-Pro, though;))

I am trying to have both, a light weight single track bike...(the 300)...saving for a big bike, either that 950SE, or it is going to be a 990ADV. I see wind protection being an issue on the SE, that and small fuel tank....or it might even be the new KTM 690. After owning a few KTM's now...I tend to bleed orange.

The Japanese companies are abandoning the 2-Strokes...(probably because they are making a ton of money off of top end parts)....I refuse to buy anything Honda, because they donate to the Sierra Club....too bad they build nice bikes, it's more of a principle thing than anything. The Sierra Clubbers are killing what I love in life.

I'll recommend their bikes, but, they won't get any of my money any more.

[cpg]

You're a man of few words...:D...eh?

Sorry, hard to tell what you were asking over the net.

They are two completely different beasts, the 450 will excell in the tight, the 950 in the wide open. I was shocked how well the 950 handled....and power...well, it might been a bit much. If you wack the throttle open, the rear tire will break loose, then try to come around on you. For aggresive riding, you have to stand, try to keep it pointed straight, and let the rear swap a bit.

It's a big bike, but, wasn't so big that I felt uncomfortable, felt very KTMish, like a rather large 525. I am only 5'8" with a 30" inseam, I didn't have a problem with it's tall seat height. Tim Hilslamer is slightly shorter than me, he didn't have a problem with it either racing in Baja. (He is a Arizona Semi-Pro, though;))

I am trying to have both, a light weight single track bike...(the 300)...saving for a big bike, either that 950SE, or it is going to be a 990ADV. I see wind protection being an issue on the SE, that and small fuel tank....or it might even be the new KTM 690. After owning a few KTM's now...I tend to bleed orange.

The Japanese companies are abandoning the 2-Strokes...(probably because they are making a ton of money off of top end parts)....I refuse to buy anything Honda, because they donate to the Sierra Club....too bad they build nice bikes, it's more of a principle thing than anything. The Sierra Clubbers are killing what I love in life.

I'll recommend their bikes, but, they won't get any of my money any more.

Thanks for the description from your earlier post I was unsure if the big KTM was replacing your CRF450 and did the job fine.

I like riding a bigger bike long distance/dessert/highway, but always want to explore goat trails off the larger trails. A bigger bike would have a good chance of getting destroyed on and not be able make the long haul home.

Hard to balance all of the trade offs.

[WhereTheHellIsJames?]

This looks like a pretty good beginner dual-sport setup: http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/mcy/550733930.html

[Kermit]

Hard to balance all of the trade offs.

Nothing wrong with having multiple bikes...;)...4 sounds like a good number.

Light weight 2T for the single track, big bore 4T for open desert, plus an extra super moto set up, naked hooligan bike (think Speed Triple or Super Duke)...then a long haul trucker type bike...(think 990 ADV or BMW GS1200)

[98sr5]

if only it was in florida its hard to find lots of offroad stuff here that they have in the west. mostly for bikes its just moto or streetbikes hayabusa thingys not any inbetween. and for trucks its all mud this mud that and thats all they are made for or good at. not alot of people are into goin camping here or going out in the wilderness cause it gets extremely hot and muggy. but i am starting to find more people willing to go trail riding its hard to get too far away from the pavement where i live it takes about 4 hours traveling north bound just to get away from the city and thats extreme hick territory.

wow that was a long rant sory lol

[SOAZ]

I had a klr a 300. GREAT beginner bike. When I needed to have more power I went to a monster. A yz426. It made me a worse rider. Not for me and way above my level.
I like the more mellow power of the enduro bikes.
I have an XR400 and have had it for years now. By leaps and bounds the best compromise of all the bikes I've owned, rented, borrowed, ridden.
It is a jack of all trades. I find myself riding with the really tight single track guys that ride ktm 200 2 strokes or the guys who go to baja.
Its not the best at any of them, but I smile in my helmet when people are working on their bike or kicking it over a bunch, or the bigger 650's run out of gas and I feed them from the petcock.
I hate doing lots of maintanence too so love that its not tempermental. I change the oil/filter every 3 rides. (I would a lot less if I was riding easy on the road with clean air being sucked in)
I change the plug once a year, but dont have to even then. I just don't know what else to do!

There is my sales pitch. Not for my bike, its too far away from you anyway :oops: ,but for the xr400 or xr250 for a first bike. The DRZ400e is a great one also, but I have no experience with it. (accept crying in my helmet that they have electric start)
Good luck and happy riding!

[MuddyMudskipper]

Nothing wrong with having multiple bikes...;)...4 sounds like a good number.

Light weight 2T for the single track, big bore 4T for open desert, plus an extra super moto set up, naked hooligan bike (think Speed Triple or Super Duke)...then a long haul trucker type bike...(think 990 ADV or BMW GS1200)

There he goes. Working his way to earning the gold plated fiddle.:shakin:

[cpg]

(accept crying in my helmet that they have electric start)


That is funny!

Those air cooled XR's are bullet proof.

[rathackman]

Go with your original choice, a TW200. Everyone I know that ha one just loves it. For your application, you have chosen right. All this other stuff is guys b.s.ing about bikes. You can listen to this stuff forever and not be any further toward getting a bike. Your gut told you right.
Brian in NM
....over 50 years riding motorcycles....

[SOAZ]

That is funny!

Those air cooled XR's are bullet proof.
Absolutely! :wings:
The only time I wish I had the e-start was after a ton of falls. (i.e. Tired and beat up and maybe a flooded engine while on the side of a mountain where you can't get a good spot to kick it)
I just had a flash back! (to this hill. Bradshaw trail. Only hikers and MTBikers should be there!)
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i190/soaz/Trips%20and%20Adventures/9-07%20Crown%20king%20dirt%20bike/P1010194.jpg