Fluids and Fuel

[Brian McVickers]

Now that I have a backyard:victory: I have a place to store my roof rack instead of always having it on my vehicle.
I took it off the other day and just driving around town I notice a difference in the overall feel of the vehicle including reduced noise, increased response, acceleration, and hopefully fuel economy!

So this has got me thinking that I will only use the rack when I really need it for hauling goods around town or on longer trips where it would be useful for storage.

This then led me to thinking about what I ever really put up there to begin with....

So my question is, and it has nothing to do with roof racks really,

:confused: What are your thoughts about carrying a Wedco NATO style jerry can full of gasoline inside an enclosed vehicle.:confused:

With a good rubber gasket in place they are leak proof and supposedly fume proof but I am not yet convinced that having it inside is a safe practice.

Also
:confused: What other extra fluids do you carry and in what quantity?:confused:
I have a rubbermaid tub with:
5 quarts of oil
1 quart of power steering fluid
1 quart of brake fluid
2 diffs worth of diff fluid
5 quarts of coolant
But it's a little heavy, and over the past two months I have become more weight conscious. This inventory will cover just about every fluid the vehicle requires but although I like to be prepared I'm trying to decide if it's necessary or overkill.

Thoughts?

Now get back to work!
Thanks

[Jonathan Hanson]

Wow, Brian, it is taking every ounce of my self-control to refrain from making a wisecrack about carrying 5 extra quarts of oil in a Land Rover . . .

It is obviously "inadvisable" to carry gas in any container inside a vehicle. However, ahem, Roseann and I did so in her old FJ55 on a trip through Baja, in a surplus but unissued NATO can. We never so much as got a whiff of gasoline smell, much less any seepage. It was well-secured, but we never felt truly comfortable with it back there.

Of course, my 1973 FJ40 stores its 17 gallons of gas in its factory tank situated inside the cab under the passenger's seat, so . . .

I had a similar experience to yours when I removed the ConFerr rack I'd had on the LC for ten years. My mileage went up exactly one mile per gallon, and the vehicle handled noticeably better. Noise on the highway was reduced, too.

Okay: That's your cue to make a wisecrack about "reduced noise on the highway" in an FJ40 . . .

[Scenic WonderRunner]

I don't know Brian.....

But it sure is nice you have a back yard now! .......:shakin:

Congrats!........hehe

[Scott Brady]

Great topic Brian!

Ok, here is my opinion, which is just that...

I am of the belief that a roof rack should be avoided at all cost, especially to store heavy fluids like fuel and water. If you have too much gear for the vehicle to hold then use a trailer.

But, with proper design and organization you can have very effective and safe equipment storage.

I would suggest a bottom up approach.

Fuel: There are aux. fuel tanks that mount along the frame in the space between the 1/4 panel and rear frame horns (37L or 10 gal), or use two Scepter fuel cans in cage racks behind the rear seats.

Water: I like these MSR bags (thanks BajaTaco)
http://www.msrcorp.com/hydration/images/dromedary_bags.jpg
Use several of them, and store then in the passenger area footwell.

Build a platform with storage drawers (I think you have this) and put all of the really heavy stuff in the bottom (recovery and tools). Then store the camping gear on top of the platform. Put clothing bags and linens at the very top.

You should be able to take everything you need in the Disco without a rack. The possible exception would be if you decided to go with a roof tent.

:arabia:

[Scott Brady]

:confused: What other extra fluids do you carry and in what quantity?:confused:
I have a rubbermaid tub with:
5 quarts of oil
1 quart of power steering fluid
1 quart of brake fluid
2 diffs worth of diff fluid
5 quarts of coolant


If traveling alone, your list is pretty good.

With a group, the weight can be shared among members.

[rbraddock]

Last Saturday I helped my neighbor clean up three gallons of gas, from a new WEDCO Jerry Can, out of the trunk of his car. Not a fun job, it soaked the carpeting and insulation collecting in the spare tire well, took 6 hours and a week later there was still a smell of gas. I asked him what he was thinking, especially since he has a pickup, he said he thought the can was sealed! He only drove 2.5 miles on paved road.

After this, I think I'll keep the gas in the fuel tank or outside the people compartment. :D

[Scott Brady]

Do you know what caused the can to fail?

[Jonathan Hanson]

I'm curious too. I've heard conflicting anecdotal reports on the quality of the Wedco cans versus the various issue NATO cans. I've been meaning to weigh a few samples to get a rough idea of comparative metal thickness. But a serious leak like this is extremely rare.

[gjackson]

Wow, Brian, it is taking every ounce of my self-control to refrain from making a wisecrack about carrying 5 extra quarts of oil in a Land Rover

Because some of us in Rovers actually do long range expeditions :D where you will have to change oil in the field, I carry a full oil change for the truck as well as diff and t-case fluid and ATF for the trans. All fits in a custom box mounted to the frame. Excellent for keeping weight down. As far as fuel goes, all of that is stored on jerry cans on the outside of the truck.

cheers

[Jonathan Hanson]

Nice riposte, Graham!

[Jonathan Hanson]

Back on roof racks: I, too, have come to the conclusion that you're better off without one whenever possible. The dual-level load platform I built in the back of the FJ gave me a huge amount of extra interior load space, and the rear tire/cargo rack keeps my two jerry cans accessible and reasonably low.

Someday I plan to have my nephew build me a full-length, but ultra-light roof rack out of chrome-moly tubing that I could attach when needed. Low profile but strong. My Conferr rack with the reinforcing I added and the expanded metal floor weighs over 100 pounds. I'd like to cut that in half at least with no sacrifice in strength, and better aerodynamics.

So as not to disrupt the smooth air flow over the FJ40, you understand.

[Brian McVickers]

Wow, Brian, it is taking every ounce of my self-control to refrain from making a wisecrack about carrying 5 extra quarts of oil in a Land Rover . . .
:xxrotflma :hehe: HA! Nice!!
I also like the one about the scientists who were doing some vehicle testing in their lab. While closing up shop one night they locked up the Toyota in the lab and went home. The next morning they opened the Toyota and found the lab's resident cat dead on the front seat. The cat had snuck into the vehicle just as they were locking it up the night before and had suffocated inside overnight. Curious the scientists decided to experiment. They got another cat and that night when leaving the lab they locked the second cat inside of a Land Rover. The next morning when the scientists arrived the cat was sitting happily on the hood of the Rover!:D

[Brian McVickers]

All fits in a custom box mounted to the frame. Excellent for keeping weight down.


That box is very cool!:exclaim:

[Brian McVickers]

Great topic Brian!

or use two Scepter fuel cans in cage racks behind the rear seats.

So, you think they would be ok inside the vehicle?

Eventually I want to figure out a solution for mounting on the outside.

What do you all think of the mounting of a Jerry can on the outside of the spare tire on the back door. The blue Toyota FJ had a set up like this at SEMA. I would think it would be an aweful lot of weight on the door and its hinges.

[Scott Brady]

I also like the one about the scientists who were doing some vehicle testing in their lab. While closing up shop one night they locked up the Toyota in the lab and went home. The next morning they opened the Toyota and found the lab's resident cat dead on the front seat. The cat had snuck into the vehicle just as they were locking it up the night before and had suffocated inside overnight. Curious the scientists decided to experiment. They got another cat and that night when leaving the lab they locked the second cat inside of a Land Rover. The next morning when the scientists arrived the cat was sitting happily on the hood of the Rover!:D

HA!

[Scott Brady]

Ok, here is some more fodder:

Expedition Guide: Section 4.3 Loading and Lashing.

1. Distribute the heaviest items between the two axles, avoiding the rear overhang (lever).

Off-Roader: Section 8 Loading

1. Mid-wheelbase, low down. Keeping main load ahead of rear axle.
2. Eliminate Roof Racks, external bolt-ons.

I would recommend building a rack system that mounts two fuel cans and two water cans in the 60 of the 60/40 split seat. The MSR bags would work well too.

I believe that if the load is stored as a system, with designated storage locations and level of easy access a roof rack can be avoided. The possible exception would be more than three passengers.

[Scott Brady]

So, you think they would be ok inside the vehicle?

Eventually I want to figure out a solution for mounting on the outside.


Absolutely. It is inside the frame rails and crush zones of the vehicle. cans mounted to racks and rear bumpers can get crushed and smashed. I have seen fuel cans fly off roof racks, split open from pressure, leak down the side of vehicles, etc. Buy an ultra high quality set of cans with solid racks and mount them towards the mid-line and down low. Fill them outside of the vehicle and wipe them off thoroughly before putting back in the vehicle.

http://www.britishpacific.com/landroverparts/offrd_pictures/carbcan2.JPG

[asteffes]

Scott, I have a related question about fuel can safety. As you probably know, the 2005+ Tacomas have a bed made of a plastic-like resin. It feels and looks similar to the stuff from which many bedliners are constructed. I've always understood that one should not fill a fuel can while it rests on a synthetic bedliner as a static charge may build up and ignite the fuel. However, many say that once the can is full it's safe to transport it in a plastic-lined bed. This seems risky to me, so I have yet to carry any type of fuel jug in the back of my '06.

I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to mount a bracket like the Wedco or Sceptre mounts to the bed of the truck with a ground wire running to a solid ground point on the truck chassis. This would help maintain a neutral voltage potential between the jug rack (and hopefully the jugs themselves) and the chassis (but possibly not the plastic resin bed itself.) Would you agree with this idea, or perhaps have another suggestion?

I would like to purchase a quality fuel container like a Wedco (but they have the crummy plastic cap systems for us in CA) or Sceptre, but not if I can't mount them safely.

[Jonathan Hanson]

I also like the one about the scientists who were doing some vehicle testing in their lab. While closing up shop one night they locked up the Toyota in the lab and went home. The next morning they opened the Toyota and found the lab's resident cat dead on the front seat. The cat had snuck into the vehicle just as they were locking it up the night before and had suffocated inside overnight. Curious the scientists decided to experiment. They got another cat and that night when leaving the lab they locked the second cat inside of a Land Rover. The next morning when the scientists arrived the cat was sitting happily on the hood of the Rover!

HA! is right!

And Graham, that is a terrific compartment.

I agree about keeping the weight as much as possible between the axles, but keeping it low trumps keeping it centered in my view (if you can't do both). I'd much rather have jerry cans on a rear rack than on a roof rack.

I also think Scott is right about a secure rack behind the seats. Much safer than it seems.

My plan for the new FJ40 roof rack would be to use it on long trips for bulky but lightweight items, in either Pelican cases or a soft roof box like the Kanga Roof pouches. Chairs, sleeping bags and pads, and such. Little effect on CG. The couple of times I carried a collapsed 14-foot Zodiac and a 15-horsepower motor up there I really noticed it!

[Life_in_4Lo]

Scott, I have a related question about fuel can safety. As you probably know, the 2005+ Tacomas have a bed made of a plastic-like resin. It feels and looks similar to the stuff from which many bedliners are constructed. I've always understood that one should not fill a fuel can while it rests on a synthetic bedliner as a static charge may build up and ignite the fuel. However, many say that once the can is full it's safe to transport it in a plastic-lined bed. This seems risky to me, so I have yet to carry any type of fuel jug in the back of my '06.

I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to mount a bracket like the Wedco or Sceptre mounts to the bed of the truck with a ground wire running to a solid ground point on the truck chassis. This would help maintain a neutral voltage potential between the jug rack (and hopefully the jugs themselves) and the chassis (but possibly not the plastic resin bed itself.) Would you agree with this idea, or perhaps have another suggestion?

I would like to purchase a quality fuel container like a Wedco (but they have the crummy plastic cap systems for us in CA) or Sceptre, but not if I can't mount them safely.

I read up on this b/c I use jerry cans. The static charge is created by gas flowing thru the pipes, gas has a poor conductivity so discharge potential is from the fuel nozzle and your jerry can, which is why you should always have the nozzle touching the lip of the can while you dispense petrol. This way it can flow to ground easily.
A second way is to dispense gas slowly, this lessens the amount of static buildup.

Always put the jerry can on the ground and fill it up there. leave 5-10% empty for expansion.

It is the vapor that will ignite- so keep the jerry cans tightly sealed.
Gas vapor is heavier than air so it runs along the ground.

In your truck bed, if you have a leaking jerry can, it is either overfilled or poor sealing can. Either way, I don't think a grounding wire or anything like that is helpful.