Toyota LC vs Mits Montero?

[OneTime]

Last year I bought a 92 Toyota FJ80. I had always dreamed of owning a LC. The truck is not a DD and it used as a do all "Adventure Rig" A little wheeling, a little expedition/camping and a lot of highway driving hualing my mountain bikes. I have learned to do a lot of my own PM from great web support on IH8mud.com.

I have also owned a 95 Montero. Recently I have considered going back to a Montero. But have many questions. Here are the pro I miss from the Montero. Better MPG. More High End HP. Better overall highway preformance Factory rear locker (My LC only has a center dif loc) Part time 4wd, A little more cargo room. Rear power outlet. ABS PRICE!!!!!! I could sell my LC and buy a Montero and load it with all kinds of toys, for the same price.

Cons Poor web and aftermarket support I cant find a good web site. 4x4wire.com is nothing compared to LC forums. I also dont know how long a Montero will last and what the pitfalls are. Also what year is the best? I like the GenII. Also not sure of cost of parts. I remember having to pay about $250.00 to replace my 95's headlight. Not so on my 92 LC

Can any Montero owners chime in?

I know the LC is probably a better offroad rig. But I dont spend that much time doing real wheeling. I am thinking of going with a Montero and making it a DD. What can I expect for MPG? I cant remember what my 95 got

[Martinjmpr]

I don't know if this is helpful, but I had a 1st gen (1990) 4-door Monty and it was the longest running used vehicle I've ever owned. I bought it in May of 1992 with 18,000 miles and sold it in July of 1999 with 147,000. I did have to have the top end reubuilt because of the well known problems with the valve guides on those 3.0l V6 engines, but that was the only major work I had done. As far as minor repairs, the only ones I had done were the turn signal switch stopped working at around 70k and cost about $150 to fix in the late 90's. It was dead reliable and never left me stranded. Mine had a manual transmission and no power windows or doors so there was less "stuff" to break.

I have always been impressed with the Monteros and I think in many ways they get a raw deal in the US. Here they are thought of as oddballs or strictly as "mall cruisers." However, if you get out to the 3rd world, where 4wd vehicles really earn their keep, there are 3 SUVs you see more than any other: Toyota LC, Nissan Patrol (not available in the US) and the Mitsubishi Pajero (which we call the Montero.)

Personally, I'm not crazy about the new, IRS Monteros, but the 92-98 (or so) Montero/Pajero is an amazingly capable off road vehicle that still has good on-road manners and certainly better gas mileage than the abysmal LC. MPG won't be spectacular but you can probably expect 15-17 in the city and 18-20 on the highway, depending on what tires you have and how you drive. That's about 60% better than what you can expect from an FJ80, from what I understand, which can rarely break 15mpg, even on the highway.

Sadly, I have noticed that Toyotas often command prices that are just ridiculous, simply because of the name. I have seen 1984 FJ60's with 200+k on the clock and banged up bodies sell for $3500 - $4000 in a heartbeat, while a 1994 or 95 Montero with 125k in decent shape can be found for under $2k if you shop around. Nothing against Toyota (see what I drive now in my sig!) but the blind worship of the LC has driven their prices into the "insane" range, and that goes for FJ80's, especially, which can command prices in excess of $15k even with over 150,000 miles on them!

I'd say if you can stomach the idea of either (a) not modifying the vehicle excessively, (b) sourcing your parts from Australia (where the Pajero is extremely popular) or (c) fabricating your own custom parts, then a Montero would be an awesome vehicle to own.

Here I am camping in the Black Rock Desert in Nevada in 1998:

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z256/ZappBranigan/Misc%20pictures/blacroc6.jpg

4-wheeling at Hole-in-the-rock trail in Utah in 1999:

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z256/ZappBranigan/Misc%20pictures/RALLY05.jpg

[tdesanto]

I have owned a '94 and currently own an '01 year model.

The genII trucks are great. Look for one with the rear locker, if you can find it. They aren't as common, but that was an option offered. The genII was made up through '99 and they continuously refined it. If I remember correctly, my '04 got about 16-18mpg...so maybe slightly better than the FJ80.

As you noted, after market support isn't as good, but there are more options I've seen for the genII trucks vs. the genIII model.

A good website with a lot of great folks and information: Pajero 4WD Club of Victoria (http://www.pajeroclub.com.au/home/publicforum/)

I only wish that all the goodies that the Aussies have access to for these rigs was available here.

[kcowyo]

OneTime - Welcome to ExPo -:beer:

You've presented a very fair and interesting comparison. I have not owned a Montero, but I did do a lot of research on them last winter when I was considering an 80 series for a DD and client hauler. I was very impressed with what I learned about Monteros compared to an 80 series Landcruiser.

My needs were a reliabile drive-train, a 3rd row seat, decent ground clearance, 4wd and price. I was pleasantly surprised to learn there was also a factory locker available in Monteros. For a DD, I thought the seating position and around-town drive-ability were quite good. The prices for a used Montero vs. a used 80 were much more manageable as well. Gas mileage figures I saw were pretty comparable to a stock 80 series, mid teens in town and on the highway.

I emailed a mod on a Mitsubishi website for a little bit of insider info. The following was his reply to my questions -


The advice I'll give you is pretty much based on what I've read, with a little experience thrown in, with a caveat, later...

95 Montero SR is the holy grail, in terms of power, performance, ground clearance etc. Has the available 3.5 engine, available factory rear locker, etc etc. Plus it has arguably the best (at the time) 4wd system available, a multi-mode system, that has allwheeldrive via a viscous coupling, plus 4hi and 4lo locked modes, so its good to go on all surfaces. Add in multichannel abs, comfortable interior, etc, and you've got a great machine, underrrated, but the best kept secret that the rest of the world knows, but North America hasn't caught on. Also a very stout trans, made by AisinWarner, whom I'm sure you're familiar with... http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Now, the negatives:

-3.5 engine is "complicated" to work on, has a butterfly valve issue (fixable, check the archives or old posts in tech), and is not the most fuel effiecient. But lots of power, and stout except for as mentioned.

-Very little aftermarket.

Bear in mind that you posted two completely different models, the sleeker smaller one is the Montero Sport, which is a completely different animal from the Montero (Pajero in the rest of the world, and the one of Dakar fame). I am speaking of the latter, and have no experience with the Sport.

Now my caveat: the only genII I have ever owned (my current ride) is an imported from Japan model, with a diesel engine. The only gas engined Monteros I've had were the 3.0V6 and the 2.6-4banger. So my comments on the 3.5 are only what I've heard from others...

In terms of mileage - hmmmm... I've no doubts about the drivetrain, but the tranny and engine will go forever IF looked after, ie good maintenance. I woudn't be shy about a high miler, but I would want meticulous service records, and a very good pre-buy inspection...

Hope this helps a little...


I didn't get much further than that with my Montero education. My need for a vehicle with a third row was satiated when a Honda Pilot with a 3rd row came into my life. That suited my need for DD & client hauler with soft-road abilities. However I still believe that the Montero is a viable, if under-appreciated and unloved, DD and weekend warrior. Their world-wide reputation should give confidence to anyone in the looking stages.


*ExPo member preacherman has had a Montero for sale in Texas (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7741). I dunno if it's still available...?

[OneTime]

Does anyone know about valves on the Montero? I owned a 92 Eclispe and one day the timing belt went.....And that was it!!! DOHC Big bucks to fix. Also sounds like the Mits is harder to work on. But my skills only go as far a changing fluids and spark plugs. Could I expect to go over 200,000 miles in Montero with proper mantainance?

[Martinjmpr]

Does anyone know about valves on the Montero? I owned a 92 Eclispe and one day the timing belt went.....And that was it!!! DOHC Big bucks to fix. Also sounds like the Mits is harder to work on. But my skills only go as far a changing fluids and spark plugs. Could I expect to go over 200,000 miles in Montero with proper mantainance?

If my experience is any guide, I'd say yes to the last question. My Monty was still running strong at 147k when I sold it in 1999.

And I'll agree about the Gen IIs being the best. Mine was a Gen I and I could not keep up with the Gen IIs on the trail.

Not too long ago I was messing around on CL and found a Gen II Montero, I think it was a 96, with about 125k on it, for $1800. Considering that an equivalent FJ80 would run you near 10k, that's a huge difference.

[Martinjmpr]

Hey, you want to talk about long lasting? Check this out:

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/car/559812449.html

Wow! An 1881 Montero! :Wow1:

I hear Wyatt Earp himself drove one of these bad boys on his way to the OK corral! :gunt:

[OneTime]

Funny I was just looking at that myself.

[RogerH]

I'll chime in with a little input. I currently offroad/travel/and use as a daily driver a 2000 Montero (its considered a Gen. 2.5) looks like Gen. 2. I traded in a 1998 LR Discovery for the Montero and it only had 20,000 miles on it. I now have about 90,000 miles on it and I have never had a repair done to it, unlike the previous LR.

Pro's: unique, reliable, SOHC V-6 gets 16-18mpg city/22 highway. It has the ability to run in 4H all the time or the option to switch to 2H. Gas mileage doesn't change. Rear locker is an option, CD-lock standard. Solid rear axle.

Con's: aftermarket support (ARB in Australia is about it, and there great!) but limited otherwise. IFS has poor wheel travel. Not geared low enough if you go beyond 32" tires.

I live in Colorado and it does nicely in the snow and keeps up with my brothers' Rubicon. Montero's just never really caught on in the U.S. like they have in the rest of the world. I do drool over nicely equiped Land Cruisers and often think that if I ever jumped brand that is the direction I would go. Don't disregard the newer models of Montero...though they are all independent suspension, they have better ground clearance and the Super-Select 4wheel drive system is applauded internationally.

Good luck in your research!

[OneTime]

Roger, Thank you. You gave me some numbers to go with my past expierence. The 22 highway sure is hard to beat. My Land Cruiser sure looks cool. But not really tens miles less to the gallon cool. I'm still curious as to want the major problems are. With the cruiser its the Head Gasket. Do Montero have a hang up?

[AndrewP]

Really the only down side to the Land Cruiser is the fuel mileage. Everything else, like reliability, aftermarket support, clubs, runs, spare parts, mods etc, is pretty good in the Cruiser world. The Cruiser has achieved critical mass and the Montero has not.

I always liked the square 4 door Monteros (Gen 2 I guess) but it's a total orphan in the 4wd world. It had a good utilitarian look, and a rear locker. That's not a bad place to start. Add to that the IFS, though, and it's a non-starter, at least for me. The latest generation of Monteros have way too much plastic, and way too little wheel travel and room for larger tires.

[RogerH]

Honestly...I can't think of any mechanical issues. I had an older '89 that cracked its head at around 120,000 miles, which was common then. If there were any recall issues the dealer took care of it and it was probably minor. I have a great relationship with the local Mitsu dealer (friend of the family). I don't consider the Montero the ultimate 4x4 because I have been in too many offroad situations to know that advantages of long wheel base vs short is dependent on terrain. The '95 model people talk about was considered the best due to ability to fit larger tires, and had a standard rear locker, but the DOHC was difficult to work on, and may have had some minor issues (I'm not sure). Here is a link to what can be done with a little extra cash. http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB101&Number=739948&Forum=,,,,,,,All_Forums,,,,,,,&Words=&Searchpage=6&Limit=25&Main=739948&Search=true&where=&Name=2327&daterange=&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post739948
Not sure if that link will go through.

[kcowyo]

Not sure if that link will go through.

It won't if they're not members. Joe changed "Off Topic" on 4x4Wire last year to a member's only area.

That's a nice Montero though -

[Martinjmpr]

Roger, Thank you. You gave me some numbers to go with my past expierence. The 22 highway sure is hard to beat. My Land Cruiser sure looks cool. But not really tens miles less to the gallon cool. I'm still curious as to want the major problems are. With the cruiser its the Head Gasket. Do Montero have a hang up?

The 1st Gens had some engine issues. On the 4 cyl (only available in the short wheelbase, 2 door version and also sold as the Dodge Raider) the head would warp and crack, neccessitating a replacement. On the 1st gen 3.0l V-6 the valve guides would drop down causing the engine to burn excessive oil (by the time I got mine fixed it was going through about a quart every 1,000 miles and leaving a nice blue trail behind it!) AFAIK this problem never recurred in the 3.4l or 3.5l (can't remember) that was put into the 2nd gen Montero. I'm not aware of any other issues involving the later Montys, but to be fair, I never owned one, either.

[preacherman]

I sent you a pm but I will chime in for everyone else. (tony and I might be the only few who have one here??)I have a 1994 SR Montero. The SR is the model with the bigger 3.5 DOHC, rear locker, 4wheel disk breaks, power everything, and leather seats (all 3 rows).
Here is what i like about it.
-I get 16.7 mpg avg in town and 18.3 on hwy. I have gotten as good as 20 on a trip but it was backroads and I kept it under 65.
-Recently I went out with my roof top tent and still got between 15-16mpg driving 75. Do that with an 80.
-The room inside is amazing. The back seat has lots of room and it has good cup holders, arm rests, and the back seat reclines, as well as is easy to move up or down for cargo.
-The cargo space is really big and has some cool features like a 12v plug (unheard of in 1994) as well as a 12v work light you can use anywhere around the car, and a small tool kit built into the door.
-It's given me no problems. I got mine with 163K and now have 197K, I just did my first "major" repair...I put new rotors and pads on it...thats is it so far.
-Factory tire size is 31 10X50 and 33 10X50 can fit with little trouble
-It's geared low with 4.65 gears in both ends, it's got some grunt.
-Not everyone and there mother has one. I was in Nashville this week and counted 7 FJ80's in the mall parking lot while looking for a space. I love the 80's quite a bit, but they are so popular now it kinda makes me not want one.

Problems
The butterfly valve (easy to replace it's just time consuming)
It has a timing belt...which means it will wear out so you better change it every 50-60k. The DOHC engine is $$$$ so it's much cheaper to keep running that to get running again.
It burns a quart of oil or so between oil changes. But at almost 200k I am cool with only 1 quart. My 90K Ford exploder burned 2-3.

Overall I love it, I say go for it and use the extra cash you will have to pay for gas for a road trip to break it in.:wings:

[dapolrbear]

I have a GenIII Monty LTD, so far with 75000 miles on it I have had no problems, just regular service, changed timing belt, rotors and pads, etc. all regular wear and tear stuff. I use it as a DD and on occasional weekend offroad/camping trips. Very good offroad perfect size, not too big and not too compact.

http://dapolrbear.smugmug.com/photos/46470056_TgXUe-L.jpg

http://dapolrbear.smugmug.com/photos/46470017_Lt3DP-L.jpg

http://dapolrbear.smugmug.com/photos/243439314_mYhRc-L.jpg

http://dapolrbear.smugmug.com/photos/243449947_Zy28F-L.jpg

[preacherman]

dapolrbear-
Welcom. It's always good to see more monty owners.

[OneTime]

WOW NICE GEN III. That is the coolest looking one I have see yet. I had no idea one could look so nice! I have always thought the Gen III bodies were too wussified. Are those sliders? Or just running boards?

[dapolrbear]

Thanks for the welcome.



dapolrbear-
Welcom. It's always good to see more monty owners.

[dapolrbear]

Thanks! I really dig the way it looks too ;) Yes those are sliders or side protectors as they are called and are worthless as running boards.


WOW NICE GEN III. That is the coolest looking one I have see yet. I had no idea one could look so nice! I have always thought the Gen III bodies were too wussified. Are those sliders? Or just running boards?

[DavidG]

Hello again OneTime,

I've been playing devil's advocate a bit on the 'Wire, but as Preacherman mentioned, fitting 33's is a no trouble at all. A little crank on the front torsion bars help front tire clearance (I went up around 1.5"), or you can just remove the factory front mudflaps and live with the occasional full-lock rub on compression. 33's will fit on rear without modification, but I added OME 910 coils (to reduce bottoming when loaded) and gained around .75 inches or so.

Another item to look for on the SR are the factory 3-way adjustable shocks. I'm not sure what year they began offering them, but I have not had a problem with my factory original set even after 140k. When it is time to replace them, the factory adjustables will be cost-prohibitive...but they do work great.

Here's a pic of my 97 camping on Albert Mtn, N.C. last year...
http://www.thegigueres.com/images/1997SR/IMG_5728_small.jpg

[OneTime]

DAVID Nice looking rig!!! What do you get MPG with the 33's. And does the 97 have a factory locker? How does that mounting bar work on the front bumper. Again sweet rig!!! I do remember asking aobut replacing my factory shocks on my 95 at its was $$$$$$$ Does OME offer a lift kit?

[DavidG]

DAVID Nice looking rig!!! What do you get MPG with the 33's. And does the 97 have a factory locker? How does that mounting bar work on the front bumper. Again sweet rig!!! I do remember asking aobut replacing my factory shocks on my 95 at its was $$$$$$$ Does OME offer a lift kit?

Thanks! I get a little over 16mpg on the highway with the 33's and a little under 16 in mixed driving (around town, slow speed trail, highway, etc.). I have not checked the mpg on trail only. I lost approx. 1 mpg around town running the 33's over the factory 265/70-15. With the factory size tires, no roof junk and only highway I've hit over 20mpg a few times, but it's usually closer to 18mpg.

The locker is standard on the SR in 1997 (3.5 SOHC) and I think it is standard on ALL 1995-96 SR's (3.5 DOHC). I don't recall if it was standard on the 1998-2000 (3.5 SOHC), but I believe it was as well.

The bar on the front bumper is actually an old CJ light bar I had sitting around that happened to fit the small horns hidden beneath the plastic bumperettes perfectly.

OME offers shocks and rear coils. The OME lift kit doesn't necessarily provide much of a lift, but the coils are a higher rate. Valley Springs offers (or offered?) rear coils and Sway a-way and Ironman offers heavy duty torsion bars. A number of companies offer shocks.

[preacherman]

DavidG

Good to see another montey with a RTT. I have the exact same tent. Did you get a different ladder than the one that came with it?

[4Rescue]

I can't realy see the logic in going from an 80 Series Cruiser to a Monty... Monty's are neat trucks, and would be a good platform to start with, but why go FROM an 80 to a monty, the 80 is about as good a Full-sized trail rig as they come. There is nothing the Monty can do that the 80 can't. Milage might be better, don't know, but that'd be it.

Having seen DavidG's rig though, they (monty's) do look real cool when built up). Nice truck David.

Cheers

Dave

[Martinjmpr]

I can't realy see the logic in going from an 80 Series Cruiser to a Monty... Monty's are neat trucks, and would be a good platform to start with, but why go FROM an 80 to a monty, the 80 is about as good a Full-sized trail rig as they come. There is nothing the Monty can do that the 80 can't. Milage might be better, don't know, but that'd be it.

Having seen DavidG's rig though, they (monty's) do look real cool when built up). Nice truck David.

Cheers

Dave

I can see it. From what I've seen a lot of 80s get around 10-12mpg especially if they're loaded up. Going from 10 to 17 mpg (about what I got in my 90 Montero) is a 41% decrease in fuel use [math corrected.] That's a huge difference and can make the difference between being able to afford a trip and not being able to afford it.

From what I've heard the 80 is overbuilt in just about every way. Which is great if you need that capability and if you're traveling on someone else's dime (government, military, NGO, etc) then it's exactly what you want. But when you're traveling on your own $$ you have to take things like MPG into consideration. Most of us aren't wealthy enough to afford to go on long expeditions and with fuel prices going nowhere but up, people have to stop and think about whether they really need all the capabilities that the FJ80 gives them. Most of us don't.

[4Rescue]

I can see it. From what I've seen a lot of 80s get around 10-12mpg especially if they're loaded up. Going from 10 to 17 mpg (about what I got in my 90 Montero) is a 41% decrease in fuel use [math corrected.] That's a huge difference and can make the difference between being able to afford a trip and not being able to afford it.

From what I've heard the 80 is overbuilt in just about every way. Which is great if you need that capability and if you're traveling on someone else's dime (government, military, NGO, etc) then it's exactly what you want. But when you're traveling on your own $$ you have to take things like MPG into consideration. Most of us aren't wealthy enough to afford to go on long expeditions and with fuel prices going nowhere but up, people have to stop and think about whether they really need all the capabilities that the FJ80 gives them. Most of us don't.
Well, if the MPG is that much better, then maybe it is worth it. Personaly, I'd than look at it this way, if it's sheer off-road ability you're after, then the Toyota is the winner in my book, but from an all around stand-point, the milage and fact that the Monty is a still a good-great off roader makes it a tough call, maybe in favor of the monty. They're "world trucks" too, so getting parts across the globe should be easy. And, like I replied in the other therad on motors, my experiences with the 3.0 Mitsu motor have been gerat.

Cheers

Dave

[DavidG]

Thanks for the kind remarks.


DavidG

Good to see another montey with a RTT. I have the exact same tent. Did you get a different ladder than the one that came with it?

So far, I've been pleased with the tent. Only 3 overnights on it but it's kept me dry and the kids love it! I retrofitted the infinitely superior 2007 ladder. I had to chop a little off the end of the fixed portion to fit it under the cover, but it's fantastic compared to the original steel one. I also replaced the bungee-style cover surround with coated cable and end links, a pair of bungees running beneath the load bars provide tension. I thought the original elastic setup was a bit silly. I still need to replace the rainfly with larger version with some fabric I picked up, but have not gotten around to it yet. BTW, Goof Off (that's the only brand that worked) works great at removing the cartoptent.com logo :)

[OneTime]

Holy Cow!!! I just posted in IH8mud.com about selling my 80 for a Monty. Those guys are killing me. And I posted in a Expedition forum purposly and not a 80 forums thinking Expedition guys would be more experienced with other brands. Only one guy spoke highly of the Monty. Personally I think they are just Toyota Snobs. I do think the LC is a better trail platform. Just not better for my personal needs. And like said early if you cant afford to drive the truck...Want good is it

[AndrewP]

Holy Cow!!! I just posted in IH8mud.com about selling my 80 for a Monty. Those guys are killing me. And I posted in a Expedition forum purposly and not a 80 forums thinking Expedition guys would be more experienced with other brands. Only one guy spoke highly of the Monty. Personally I think they are just Toyota Snobs. I do think the LC is a better trail platform. Just not better for my personal needs. And like said early if you cant afford to drive the truck...Want good is it

I have not seen that yet, but I'll go look.

By the time you mod anything enough to go real wheeling, the fuel economy is going to be poor. A modded Land Cruiser 80 series for instance gets 12 mpg on the highway, more or less.

A Montero modded for hard use and loaded for a trip will get 15 mpg. Is that enough difference to give up a better tuck, better reliability, more space and more available "stuff"?

I'm not a snob at all, and I've kind of always liked the look of the gen 2 Montero. I'm sure it's a worthy "expo" truck.

If you really want better fuel economy, it's time to go diesel, or drive something much smaller.

[DBS311]

IMO, saying a LC will get 10 mpg compared to a Montero getting 17 is a LITTLE bit of a stretch. In my FJ62 I regularly get 12-14 when loaded. Most other people I've wheeled with from Jeeps to Xterras to Troopers to Monteros usually average 15-16 (from what they tell me). I would gladly trade 3-5 mpg for the reliability and wheelabilty I have enjoyed for the past two decades with my Cruiser. Not only that, but I wouldn't be surprised to reach 250k+ without any issues. My bro-in-law just hit 270k miles in his '88 FJ62 and has done nothing other than regular service. He is still running the original water pump!

Now, I'm not saying the Montero isn't a good vehicle. I even posted in the past asking about them because I was close to buying one. If I could find a 98-00 with low mileage and a rear locker I would love to get my hands on it. The Cruiser would then become my offroad only vehicle and the Montero would be my DD/weekend trip vehicle. BUT, if I could only have one, it would be the Land Cruiser for sure.

[DavidG]

Holy Cow!!! I just posted in IH8mud.com about selling my 80 for a Monty. Those guys are killing me. And I posted in a Expedition forum purposly and not a 80 forums thinking Expedition guys would be more experienced with other brands. Only one guy spoke highly of the Monty. Personally I think they are just Toyota Snobs. I do think the LC is a better trail platform. Just not better for my personal needs. And like said early if you cant afford to drive the truck...Want good is it

IMO, a fully locked FZJ80 is the pinnacle. I would have bought one, but could not afford it at the time. I settled on the Montero. While I have thoroughly enjoyed it and it has met all my on and offroad needs, I not so secretly long for an LC. I know the fuel economy sucks, I know they are heavy and I know I can't begin to afford half the mods I would like for it...but damn if they're not stoutest, most reliable and just plain coolest real world rig I can think of.

Then again, a clapped out Suzuki Sidekick could probably get the job done 98% of the time.

Good luck either way. Parting with a rig you've become attached to is never easy. I still miss my old 2500 Suburban, barn doors, 8600# GVW, last year for the solid front *sniff sniff*

[OneTime]

Am I in a Toyota forum? LOL For the record, I think the Cruiser is the better offroad platform. I just need to be honest and realize I will use my veh much more for hualing my bikes to the trail then driving on the trail. And I think the Montero can handle the type of trail running I plan on doing.

[Martinjmpr]

IMO, saying a LC will get 10 mpg compared to a Montero getting 17 is a LITTLE bit of a stretch. In my FJ62 I regularly get 12-14 when loaded.

Your 62 doesn't have full time 4wd like an 80 does, either. And "fully loaded" means different things to different people. Even at 12 mpg you're talking about a significant difference if gas is $4.00 a gallon. 17mpg is definitely achievable with a Monty, and I got over 20 on at least a couple of occasions.

And I'd freely admit that the Monty is able to do this, frankly, because it's not as heavy, not as rugged, nor is it built as tough as an LC.

But that's really the whole point that the OP was making: He doesn't use all the capabilities of his LC now, but he pays for those capabilities every time he fills the tank. 25-30% difference in fuel economy may not mean much to you, but it does mean a lot to some of us. And if it makes the difference between being able to go on a long-awaited trip to somewhere special or staying home, that's a big difference because all that "capability" won't help him when his rig is parked in the driveway.

[Martinjmpr]

Am I in a Toyota forum? LOL For the record, I think the Cruiser is the better offroad platform. I just need to be honest and realize I will use my veh much more for hualing my bikes to the trail then driving on the trail. And I think the Montero can handle the type of trail running I plan on doing.

I have no doubt it can. As I said, you go around the world and the three most common 4wd SUVs you find in the most rugged parts of the planet are (a) the Toyota LC of every variety, (b) the Nissan Patrol and (c) the Mitsubish Pajero (AKA Montero.)

Another nice thing about the Monty vs. the 80 is that up until recently you could still get a Monty with a manual transmission. Don't know what year was the last one for the MT but my understanding is that the Gen IIIs are automatic only. :(

[preacherman]

I agree with everything said. The LC are stout as nails, have great lines, and very strong. My FJ60 was one great truck...but more than I needed. I was tired of getting 12mpg every day for a truck that I only used to it's full extent some days. For me, my decision was 100% based on what was best for me and my family. For us better MPG = More trips.
Do whats best for you and yours. If that is a tricked out LC sweet, if its an awd mini van with snow tires, go for it. Just get outside and spend time with your family and friends. Don't forget, it's not about the truck.

[DavidG]

Do whats best for you and yours. If that is a tricked out LC sweet, if its an awd mini van with snow tires, go for it. Just get outside and spend time with your family and friends. Don't forget, it's not about the truck.


x2. I considered an AWD Minivan too :)

[OneTime]

But that's really the whole point that the OP was making: He doesn't use all the capabilities of his LC now, but he pays for those capabilities every time he fills the tank. 25-30% difference in fuel economy may not mean much to you, but it does mean a lot to some of us. And if it makes the difference between being able to go on a long-awaited trip to somewhere special or staying home, that's a big difference because all that "capability" won't help him when his rig is parked in the driveway.
__________________


Amen!! You get it. The LC is s wonderful rig. Just coslty. Plus coming from a guy who has now driven both. The comfront of the Monty far exceeds the 80. It's like a cross of the LC 80 and 100

[DavidG]

Amen!! You get it. The LC is s wonderful rig. Just coslty. Plus coming from a guy who has now driven both. The comfront of the Monty far exceeds the 80. It's like a cross of the LC 80 and 100

Sounds like your mind is made up! We welcome your return to the wonderful world of Monteros (and fuel economy) :)

[OneTime]

Anybody wanna buy my 80? I have a few guys in Mud trying to tell me that regearing is my answer. I think that will solve my power issues. But do nothing to improve my fuel economy.

[4Rescue]

Anybody wanna buy my 80? I have a few guys in Mud trying to tell me that regearing is my answer. I think that will solve my power issues. But do nothing to improve my fuel economy.Actualy it WOULD do something for your fuel economy... That's one of the reasons for re-gearing, to get your fianl drive ratio BACK to what it was from teh factory before you put on bigger tires. But then I don't know what if any mods you've done in teh Tire department.

Cheers

Dave

[OneTime]

Rescue My rig has 33x12.5 R15. I have read about regearing to 4.88. But I have no idea if that will improve or make my MPG worse.

[Scott Brady]

It will definitely improve your fuel economy... But it will cost you about $1000 to do the gearing swap, which buys a lot of fuel. I would not do it for that reason alone.

Changing vehicles will also cost you a lot of money, selling low and buying high.

Just keep the 80 and enjoy driving one of the greatest vehicles ever brought to the US.

If you really want to improve the cost ratio, it would require something drastic, like going from the 80 to a Suzuki, or 4cyl 4Runner.

90% of the time, you are better off keeping what you have ;)

[4Rescue]

It will definitely improve your fuel economy... But it will cost you about $1000 to do the gearing swap, which buys a lot of fuel. I would not do it for that reason alone.

Changing vehicles will also cost you a lot of money, selling low and buying high.

Just keep the 80 and enjoy driving one of the greatest vehicles ever brought to the US.

If you really want to improve the cost ratio, it would require something drastic, like going from the 80 to a Suzuki, or 4cyl 4Runner.

90% of the time, you are better off keeping what you have ;)Well put... And apparently I can't spell the word THE...

[OneTime]

I would spend the money on regearing if would improve my milage. But how much could of a improvement could I really expect to get from a regear. I had considered doing a regear and adding lockers adn rebuilding axles all at once. Firgured i was looking at about $2500.00. I would keep the LC if I could get it into the say 16-18 MPG range. I doubt that is possible. Still having a hard time not going with the Monty. For the type of driving I do. Plus I watch some youtube today. I forgot how quick the DOHC is.

[DBS311]

Have you searched on Mud to see if anyone got mileage improvement by intalling the part time kit?

[OneTime]

I recall reading about a kit you can import from Down Under for about 500.00 bucks. Ill have to go back and see if I can find it. I think you might get about a 20% increase in milage and power.

[DBS311]

You can get it state side as well.

http://www.sleeoffroad.com/products/products_drivetrain_driveshaft.htm

[eleblanc]

I was reading your thread on mud. Yes regearing would help, how much, hard to say. But you would still be with the less powerfull motor. If you plan on evolving on a good trail rig, i mean by that (not a road), i would probably get a FZJ80. I'm from Canada so i cannot get 80 here.

BUT i own a 2003 Gen III mitsubishi Montero Ltd. And love it, unfortunately i cannot compare to a 80. Even if the gen III is fully IFS. Have you ever look under? they are build very strong. And the down travel of the wheels are mind blowing. I don't have a locker on mine but i have the equivalent of the FJcruiser a-trac. It works really really good. Tip tronic Tranny, 2H-4H-4H with TC locked and 4 low TC locked (TC=transfer case). And the electronic traction system

My Mistu LTD being with all the trim, i couldn't get 1" bigger tires.

I love the 3rd row seat that hide under the floor, very small but perfect for the kids. Huge leg room for the 2 row.

Only problem i had was a faulty transfer case switch. And the cons is the shock, there seem to be stiff or there is something wrong if the valving. a OME eventually should fix that.

Oh, and gotta love that huge sun roof.

Cons, aftermarket add on part for it is nothing compared to the 80.

But when it is time for serious trail, i use my Landcruiser BJ42 ;-)

I bought a Montero because here in Canada the 80 wasn't available but i would have bought a 80 if i could have. But still i am very happy with the Montreo

BTW, my best buddy has a FJcruiser, my truck consummes less, hauls better, i think it is due to the wheelbase of the monty vs the fjcruiser. And more comfortable, no doubt the FJ has better feature for serious wheeling, but you feel the solid axle when you drive a FJ ( my dad own one) not in my monty.

The only thing that would make me trade my monty, is if toyota would start selling diesel FJcruiser.

Lots of plastic tho :-(
http://www.ericleblanc.com/gallery/g2data/albums/Eric/montero/montero%20001.jpg

[89s rule]

I just dont see why so many people are willing to take a loss and sell a vehicle that gets low MPG to buy somethign with 5 mpg more. Look at the overall cost and how much it would take to make that much $ back.

You can do what you want (I saw your thread on mud 1st) but I wouldnt say I am a die hard LC owner, although I am almost certain I will always have at least 1. But if it makes sense for you to buy somethign else do it. Be sure to look at the overall costs of the trucks. If you wrench on it yourself, etc.

In the end how long you keep a vehicle is usually the key, drive it until it dies is the bast way to do it. Thats not easy to do. But I personally woudl rather have overbuilt than having to get major repairs under 200K miles.

(I own a fj62 that gets about 10mpg and just bought a '93 FZJ with 31K original miles, picking it up in a few weeks.) Or main driver is a 3rd gen 4runner that gets about 17mpg.

[Monstero]

I have an 03 Monty XLS and cant complain a bit about it. They are overbuilt in the drivetrain and everywhere else mechanically I have found for the size of the vehicle. Other than normal maint I havent done a thing to it. Nothing has failed on it "mechanically" that was Mitsu's fault. No bugs that I have found and have 110k on mine and still going strong. It goes everwhere I need mine to go and is still my DD when I get home. The space is awesome to have. I have beat on mine hard in some areas and if they are armoured up you wont have a bit of probs. The arse end is a little big but when I rip the rear bumper off I will be building a "Slimmed up" version out of some stout metal. If.......IF I did get another vehicle I would be considering Toyotas before other manufact. but I cant knock anything about the LC cause it is a capable rig as well if not more so than the Monty. Both are World Proven Rigs. Anyhow, here are a few pics of mine.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h239/icysyrup22/Stoney%20Creek%2009-03-07/Monty.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h239/icysyrup22/Stoney%20Creek%2009-03-07/Monty1.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h239/icysyrup22/Stoney%20Creek%2009-03-07/Monty2.jpg


http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h239/icysyrup22/Bumpus%208-10-07/DSCN0214.jpg


Going up this took a little finnessing for about 10 minutes to find the right line....The isuzu tried for about that long and ended up giving up.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h239/icysyrup22/Bumpus%205-11-08/DSCN1021.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h239/icysyrup22/Bumpus%205-18-08/DSCN1049.jpg

[4ePajero]

It's a small world!

I just joined,but found a few familiar names on this forum!

Being a Mitsu fan, I started off by searching for Pajero/Montero related threads.

I am from South Africa (same as spikepretorius) where the Monteros are sold as Pajeros.

I have a 1989 Gen1 LWB Pajero, with a few mods:

2003 Di-D 3.2 Turbo diesel engine
5spd transmission from the 2800 TD Pajero
33" Bridgestone tyres
Frontrunner full length roof rack
Bilstein shock absorbers
2" body lift


I find the Mitsus to be built like tanks, reliable, comfortable as DD, very economical (especially the TD engines) and they go where most others go.

Attached find a few pics of the Pajero
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/4ePajero/20071211_0077b.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/4ePajero/Engine11.jpg

[Spikepretorius]

Howdy Gerhard. :beer:

[4ePajero]

Howdy Gerhard. :beer:

Greetings to you! Why did you not tell me earlier about this forum?
Where am I going to get time to go through all he wonderful stuff?
:hehe:

[Gurkha]

No disrespect to Pajero but I prefer the older IDI engined Pajero with chassis to the newer DI chassis less Montero. Also in terms of hardcore off road use, the Toyota LC is way more hardy, this is with my personal use of both vehicles and feedback from tour ops.

[tdesanto]

Greetings to you! Why did you not tell me earlier about this forum?
Where am I going to get time to go through all he wonderful stuff?
:hehe:

Welcome to ExPo! Nice looking truck. I miss my old '94 Monty.

Great...another Pajero owner!

We'll get our own forum yet!

[firstgenmonty]

I have a first gen montero with 240,000 on it thats still going strong. Its a lwb model with the 3.0 v6 I did have the head gestates replaced at around 200,000 but thats the only real work done. I'm working on fitting it out for more expo travel. Its been around already though. Its been down the length of baja its been as far as you can go in alaska, its been just about every where in the states and I want to get it out of the country for some more exploring! This truck has never left me along side the road. never been towed or winched. I will NEVER get rid of this truck. Best truck in the world.

Here are a few shots I don't have any "hardcore off road" shots though...

ps. this is my first post forgive for me for my mistakes.

pics here: http://bradleystucko.tumblr.com/post/346338171

[mtnman412]

I have owned a 97' Montero SR for the past five years. That being said, I share the OP's love for land cruisers and have spent many hours reading/learning on IH8MUD, particularly in the 80 section.

Both vehicles are over-qualified to fulfill the OP's wheeling and hauling requirements, but the Montero could do so much more cheaply than the LC. I consistantly get 16 mpg in town and 19-20 on the highway. This is with stock gearing, 31" all terrains, SOHC engine (which is said to get slightly better mpg than earlier DOHC), and a 1.5" OME lift. The OP's FJ80 with 3FE is EPA rated at 12 city 14 hwy (these #'s are based on the old test cycle, revised ratings are even worse at 10 city and 13 hwy).

As for the idea that he will lose money in the selling/buying process... That depends a lot on the OP's ability to "wheel and deal". However, given the high resale value of LC's and Toyotas in general, I think it would be possible to come out even selling the FJ80 to buy a Montero in the 95-99 range.

The only problem I know of for the 3.5 6G74 SOHC engine (which AFAIK came in 97'-00' SR models) is burning oil at higher mileages. This is casued by worn valve stem seals. Cheap part but very labor intensive to change out. I am not familiar enough with the earlier DOHC variant to comment on their potential issues.

Although not as good as MUD, outerlimits4x4.com is an Australian forum with a very helpful Mitsubishi section focusing primarily on Monteros ("Pajeros" in OZ). The FAQ on this site will get you up to speed on the various models/engines/options, as well as provide a good overview of possible mods.