Subaru Lifts

[elcoyote]

Does anyone have experience with lifting and modifying Subarus? I had an '84 Brat that I drove the wheels off of, including a few trips to Baja. Loved that thing, you could get it unstuck with a good shove. Given the upward course of fuel prices, I thought it would be interesting to create a lightweight, high mileage expo vehicle with the reliable water cooled flat 4. Any thoughts or recommendations (or am I nuckingfutz?)

[flyingwil]

You are nuts! LOL. On a serious note, It can be done:

http://www.parksoffroad.com/alloldtrips/P9290001.JPG

http://www.parksoffroad.com/alloldtrips/P9290002.JPG

http://www.parksoffroad.com/alloldtrips/P9290003.JPG

http://www.parksoffroad.com/alloldtrips/P9290004.JPG

http://www.parksoffroad.com/alloldtrips/P9290005.JPG

It can be done:

http://webmaster.beverleypaine.com/images/old_brat.jpg

Scorpion Subaru (http://www.scorpionsubaru.com/product.htm) sells a kit, but they are in AUS so a kit might be pricey to get into the US, and you would be better making your own.


At Scorpion Subaru, we have been manufacturing 50mm body lift kits since 1980 (approx). This product was developed for, and tested in, our Off-Road Race Car. The range covers all 4WD's from 1980 on and includes the Liberty, Imprezza and Forester. Ours is the only kit with NSW DMT type approval and we also have approval for other states. The Body Lift Kit does not alter any steering or suspension geometry, nor are the drive shaft angles affected. The Kit enables the fitment of larger wheels and tyres.

http://www.scorpionsubaru.com/liftkit.jpg

http://www.scorpionsubaru.com/Dcp_0180.jpg

You might want to get in touch with Peter Parks (http://www.parksoffroad.com/) and ask him about Phillip's Brat. He might be able to point you in the right direction.

Hope that helps a bit.

[ducktapeguy]

You might want to check over on

http://www.ultimatesubaru.net/forum/
http://subarubrat.com/

They probably have all the answers you need, or can show you where to get them.

I came very, very close to buying a 1981 (1st year of gen2 I think?) Brat a few months ago. Been wanting one ever since my first Tamiya Brat.

[Scott Brady]

I think the best solution would be a tacoma xtra-cab 4wd with the 2.7 liter. Run tall/narrow tires (like a 33x9.5) and do the intake and header/exhaust mods.

Make sure to get one with manual hubs too, and then fit a low profile shell to the back.

You would have great mileage (25+ mpg) and still have good trail performance.

Just MHO

Oh, and those brats are cool. I wanted one sooooo bad when I was 10-15 years old.

[chet]

there was an article in aus4wd about a company that makes a lift kit for the forrester and legacy. They also made bumpers very cool rigs and perfect for a family camping rig! I can look back tonight and see if I can find the issue?

[Hltoppr]

I'm a big Subaru fan, having owned a 1984 Wagon that I drove into the ground and currently have a 2000 Outback limited sedan....that being said, they're great, but have their limits. Sure, you could lift 'em by reworking the struts or doing a body lift, but dealing with the front CV shafts would be a PITA, although you can get 'em....

Not really what the vehicles were designed for; however....

-H-

[OutbacKamper]

elcoyote:
Subarus are extremely popular in Australia. I have a friend who belongs to the Perth Subaru club, they go dune hopping in them (fantastic power to weight ratio) and they have traversed the infamous Canning Stock Route with a convoy of Subi's. I also heard of a group of Subi's going to Cape York (with a Toyota Hilux support vehicle).
I think the company that chet mentioned is:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/subaxtreme/
FYI the Brat is called a "Brumby" in Oz
I saw lots of Subi's in Oz with bullbars, 2" lifts, AT tires and rear bumper spare tire carriers, however I didn't see any with big lifts and monster tires - they really don't need them.
I fully agree with you about fuel prices creating a lot more interest in Subarus and other higher milage alternatives to the traditional 4x4.
Cheers
Mark

[bigreen505]

Not to hijack the thread, but does anyone know what the biggest tire size is that I can put on a 2002 Outback? I'm starting to think that I should consider taking our Outback for trips that won't require a lot of ground clearance.

[ducktapeguy]

FYI, SubaXtreme is going out of business soon or has already done so. I heard they're getting rid of inventory, but it might already be gone.

And I think the tire size is limited by the spring perch on the struts, so you won't be able to fit anything much larger than stock.

[blaze one]

I have recently came across the idea of a expedition LATE model subaru . I say late model ~96 and up , because I would like to use it as a reliable , somewhat stylish Daily driver . I can't be pulling up to the business luncheon in a '82 Subaru :D
I wouldn't expect it to take to well to any trails over a 2 rating .
what kind of cargo capacities are we looking at ?
Reliability issues ?
Lifts , and other mods ?

I agree that a toyota xcab with the 4banger and skinny 33's would have much more potential and stock capabilities .
But a late model subaru has more of a "family guy" attitude that some must present . Even if we don't care .

[Dietrich]

I currently have a '97 Subaru Legacy Wagon. I am considering mods that would take it in a moderately offroad direction. It has 160,000 on the clock and has served me almost flawlessly for 90,000. I got a great deal on it. I have done street type mods on it so far. Appearance stuff only. It has 17" wheels. I have driven it on sand, mud, and snow. It does great. Sometimes it does so good in snow you become bored and complacent. The full-time, electronic, symetrical set-up in late model subarus can't be beat. Current repairs have only been: an alternator, battery, front axles(both sides), and I replaced the water pump, timing belt, and some oil seals on the front of the motor. I did the last three only because the cam and crank seals started to leak enough to get my attention. I've spent less than five hundred on parts on the thing so far. Oh yeah, I almost forgot, one of the tie rods went bad so I replaced all four and the rack boots. I think they make the best vehicles. The only other types of vehicles I would be interested in are rwd sports cars and a full sized truck for hauling. Other than those two uses Subaru is unbeatable. I want to take mine on mild off road adventures and use it to tow one or two quads.:wings:

[Christian P.]

I think the best solution would be a tacoma xtra-cab 4wd with the 2.7 liter. Run tall/narrow tires (like a 33x9.5) and do the intake and header/exhaust mods.

Make sure to get one with manual hubs too, and then fit a low profile shell to the back.

You would have great mileage (25+ mpg) and still have good trail performance.
.

Scott

I think this is a great idea. I have been looking into that lately. I need to get a truck right now and I am going back and forth between a Discovery II and a Tacoma.

These guys claim 27+ mpg

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2000-Toyota-Tacoma-SR5-4-x-4-Truck_W0QQitemZ190149775489QQihZ009QQcategoryZ6439 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/car/421894343.html

anything over 20 would make me happy!

what is the header/exhaust mods? legal in CA?

[devinsixtyseven]

But a late model subaru has more of a "family guy" attitude that some must present.I'm cracking up right now because in Colorado at least (and some other states, I know) a late model Subaru suggests something a bit different, tho if outfitted like the SEMA car it would be pretty cool.

If you're looking to improve offroad capability, I agree you may be on the wrong track...a "2" rating on the 10 scale is doable, but risky (that was last weekend :D), and I'd be extremely leery of doing anything rated "2" on the 5 scale in anything with low ground clearance. Since those are body lifts rather than changes to the ride height, they'll get you ground clearance only in the radius of your new tires compared to the old ones.

Not that I don't know a few cars with belly skids, but maybe something like a Ridgeline, LR3, Commander or one of the late model Land/Range Rover or Land Cruiser offerings would be a better option if you need the clean cut family look for DD duty, but want to take the same vehicle offroad. Since we're talking a bit of image, a lot of people in Denver drive those various vehicles as shiny status symbols (anyone ever seen a dirty G-Wagon?) so they'd definitely suffice if you need the look for work, but we know they're all being put to pasture prematurely by their owners ;).

My uncle recently got an LR3...he's itching to get it in the dirt, and he's from NY! It's pretty nice, and has a great auto tilt feature in the side mirrors for backing up (among the eleventybillion other offroad-related features!). I have to do it manually on the truck :p. Anyway, check out some of the more metropolitan oriented offerings from Jeep, Toyota and Land Rover...very clean lines, and they have the capability where it counts for dirty work. Some have independent suspension like the Roo, but with more ground clearance, low range, and other options for getting up and down steep hills and whatnot. All those little things add up to more control offroad, and AFAIK aren't offered on a Subaru.

Dunno about the mileage, tho.

*BTW I'm not talking down Roos...I grew up driving them, and they are ubiquitous in Alaska! For a four banger they can MOVE, and they're better at high speed in a snowstorm than my truck, by a long shot. I just dunno that it's the best platform to start what you're talking about. It really is gonna depend on the roads you want to travel, that's all. Don't forget there's an Expedition Element here ;).

-Sean

[MountainBiker]

Yeah, Legacy would be lucky to make all of the trails rated 2 on a 10 scale, even with a body lift. My stock Forester was decent on most 3/10 trails, as long as I was willing to hit stuff on the ground! Metal sump guard is mandatory! To get to Forester to be good on all 3/10 trails and all the 4/10 trails, I needed a strut top lift (it does actually increase ground clearance) AND bumper modifications to improve approach/departure angles. Keep in mind that the stock Forester blows away a legacy or outback on approach, breakover and departure angles.

The only strut top lifts around at this point in time are from Hi-Rise Subaru. Don't bother e-mailing them, they don't answer. You gotta get on the phone to Australia. They do have great prices!
http://www.funonwheels.net/hirisesubaru/pages/libertylift.htm

[Superu]

The advantage to an Outback over many of the trucks/SUVs mentioned is really decent real life mpg in an AWD platform that comes stock with 8.5" of ground clearance and has the potential for more at a reasonable cost.

My Subie has 1" lift springs frm King Springs in AU and I have a 2" lift kit being worked up by AUSubarus. If you do the relatively easy mod to allow you to "lock" the front and rear diffs on the 4EAT you can eliminate some of the pain associated with the average limited slip characteristics when in low traction conditions.

And if you're a total nutjob, you may go down this path.

The Superu (http://thesuperu.blogspot.com)

http://lh6.ggpht.com/wbanas/SAEi273JErI/AAAAAAAACI4/XjlgYS7yuDs/s800/IMG00382.jpg

[ggvfr]

...or you could go this path..

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1830/subyclimbing027tv3.jpg

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3505/4x4learnerday039ash7.jpg

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/6900/4x4learnerday016awl7.jpg

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/5884/4x4learnerday021atz9.jpg

2" Scorpion Body Lift, King HD Springs (rear), standard front. Went everywhere on a 4x course that the cars in the background did, including hood deep water, severe ruts and steep climbs (auto with no low range!!)

Sure, it's not a rock crawler or mountain goat but it's a hell of a lot of fun :wings: and maybe not as modded as Superu... Keep modding Bill :)

Cheers
Garry

[Superu]

If I could get slow and cheap boat freight from down under I'd be ordering a similar one from Subaextreme!

http://www.subaxtreme.com.au/images/large/OSB-044-3R-Silver-1.jpg

Maybe if I can sort out shipping it would be worth trying to get a custom rear bumper with tire and can holder made for my 05 Outback!

http://www.subaxtreme.com.au/images/large/RB-XT-Exhuast.JPG

[MountainBiker]

If I could get slow and cheap boat freight from down under I'd be ordering a similar one from Subaextreme!
I have some old quotes for sea and air shipping of the bumper from Oz. If you are interested shoot me a PM. It was expensive!

Some of the bullbars are welded to the bumper, and some are bolted. Those that are welded make for a larger package that nearly doubles the shipping cost over what it cost to ship my bolted version, IIRC.

The cheap way to ship it would be to buy several and split the shipping costs (or become the US distributor!) But I couldn't find anyone to split it with.

[Martinjmpr]

My last vehicle was a Subaru ('99 Outback Wagon) and I seriously considered getting a newer one when it was time to replace it. In terms of reliability, I never had any problems in 4 years/80k miles (which were miles 40k-120k in the life of the vehicle.)

Here are a few things to consider:

1. On any Subaru made before about 2001-2002 with the 2.5 motor, head gasket failure is not uncommon. It doesn't happen on every vehicle, but it happens on enough of them that its' something you need to at least prepare for. And of course being a flat-4, there are two head gaskets to worry about. The 2.2 engine (on non-Outback Legacy's and Imprezas) does not have this problem, nor do the later 2.5l motors.

2. While it's true that the Subaru has 7-8" of ground clearance, that's somewhat deceptive because the approach, departure and breakover angles royally suck, especially on the long Legacy platform. The shorter Impreza platform (which includes the Impreza, the Outback Sport and the Forester) are somewhat better here. Also, whereas on a regular 4x4 truck, you might have an axle pumpkin at 7" or so, you won't have much else. On a Subaru, OTOH, there's all kinds of stuff hanging down there. I had a problem driving my Outback on a muddy road because the rear driveshaft tunnel got packed with mud and dirt and made a hellacious racket when I was driving.

3. Even the Legacy wagon (Outback) is somewhat cramped inside.

4. While Subaru MPG is better than that of most 4x4 trucks and SUVs, it's not that much better. I averaged about 22-23 in the city and 27-29 on the freeway, but then again, I drive like an old lady (cruise control set at 65 on the freeway, etc.) If you drive in a more "spirited" manner expect a corresponding drop in MPG. And mine was bone stock down to the tire size.

A little realism is called for here: By the time you add that lift kit, bigger tires, bull bar, winch, roof rack and spare tire carrier, you have probably (1) come close to maxing out the safe weight carrying capacity of the car (and that's without driver, passengers and outdoors gear) and (2) have probably reduced your MPG to 20-24 mpg tops.

Finally, if you actually are driving a lot of those 2 or 3 level trails, you are putting a lot more stress on that unibody structure than it was ever designed to take.

And 20-24 mpg? I get that with my V-6, 4wd Tacoma! In fact, I routinely get 20 in mixed city/highway driving, and in sustained highway driving I typically get 22-24, depending on how much I'm hauling and how fast I'm driving. Plus the Taco can carry a hell of a lot more gear, is much more rugged (body-on-frame construction) has 31" tires, low range, and true off-road capability. In fact, the only way the Subaru beats me is in the fact that it can carry more passengers than I can.

So, while the Macho Subaru is a cool idea and a fun project, I think you have to ask yourself where do you reach the point of diminishing returns? And what is the objective? If it is to actually have an economical and reliable off-road vehicle, then a small pickup or SUV probably accomplishes that with nearly the same MPG as the Subaru. OTOH, if the objective is to see what you can do with a Subaru, then go for it. Just don't expect spectacular results.