Training a dog

[Dave]

I'll be trying my hand at dog training beyond the basic "here, sit, lay down" for the first time come April. We're getting a female lab with a respectable pedigree and we aim to train her as a family companion and waterfowl retriever.

Anyone have any books or training materials they could recommend? Any personal experience? Anything from basic obedience to advanced training.

[Robert Bills]

I have no expertise training retrievers or hunting dogs, and my "dog training" library is limited to the "usual" books from Petsmart, etc., except for this one, which gave me some basic tips that worked far better and far faster with my Australian Cattle Dog / Border Collie mix than anything in any of the others:

Cesar's Way by Cesar Millan (The "Dog Whisperer" guy).

http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/

Try a "google" search for "dog + training + retriever" and see what you find. There is a book out there titled "Retriever Puppy Training." Don't know anything about it, but you may find a review.

[mightymike]

We just got a lab pup from a great breeder, he is 7 months old now. I highly recommend Water Dog by Charles Wolters. We started reading it before we picked up "Brutus" and it has been very helpful. My brother used it to train his lab as well.

[akphotobob]

We had a Chesapeak retriever that was so smart it was scarry. His water instincts were so strong that retrieving from the water was was the greatest joy in life. If he lost sight of the stick, we could say "left", and he would search to his left or we could say "right" and he would look to his right. We did very little training, it was all instinct and smarts. Chessies are extremely stubborn, so nothing I could tell you about training him would relate to a lab. The key is that your labs natural instincts are to please and serve you and so your primary job is to reward and focus him in what he naturally wants to do. You will know you are training him, but it will just be fun to him. Lots of rewards, consistency, and repitition guarantee a great dog.

I strongly second the suggestion of Ceasar Milans book and TV show (on National Geographic channel) as a neccessary foundation to owning any dog.

[adrenaline503]

Cesar's Way by Cesar Millan (The "Dog Whisperer" guy).

http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/



Ditto

[Topher Walters]

Dave,
I have trained several Labs for hunting (waterfowl and upland game). I highly reccommend www.dobbsdogs.com for their books and DVD's. I have an older book by Jim and Phyllis Dobbs that they wrote for Tri-tronics (e-collar). It is a great book. If you go to their web site and search their Libarary under retreivers you will find all sorts of info from the book and newer up to date info. There is a ton of info on their web site. The Wolters series of DVD's are also very good. I am currently working with a new Chocolate Lab and she is really putting me through the ringer! But slowly we will work through things. Good luck and enjoy!

[Martyn]

Like everyone else I recommend The Dog Whisperer, we rent the DVD's through Netfliks.

I like Caesar’s approach. We are putting our new dog through an 8 week obedience class right now, and the trainer uses treats to alter behavior. Once the behavior in learnt then treats are lessened and the stopped. I don't like this approach I prefer the reward to be in praise and attention, but the training is for my daughter and her new dog, so I go along with it.

After all who are we fooling it's training the human not the dog.

[Gregny]

I'll be trying my hand at dog training beyond the basic "here, sit, lay down" for the first time come April. We're getting a female lab with a respectable pedigree and we aim to train her as a family companion and waterfowl retriever.

Anyone have any books or training materials they could recommend? Any personal experience? Anything from basic obedience to advanced training.


I have 21 years as a canine trainer/Behaviorist my experience includes domestic/competition obedience, theatrics, Police/narcotics, Shutzhound/KNPV and problem dogs (anxieties, Fear/Dominant aggression, Phobias and abused/neglected pets) if any one had questions and needed help or something explained ( methods, approaches, tools , how to implement them or just why does my dog act like this? ) Call me 845-895-8118 www.GregEdgarSchool.com. I may be able to shed some light on certain topics.

[Dave]

Fantastic input, thanks! I am familiar with Wolters' work. There is an old copy of Water Dog floating around my family somewhere and I own a copy of City Dog. Is anyone familiar with the SmartWorks (http://www.rushcreekpress.com/) method?

Sounds like we have a few up and coming pups on the ExPo...post up some pics!

[Ruffin' It]

Just for back ground, I work with dogs training them for the Deaf and pet therapy.
For obedience, Ian Dunbar is about as good as it gets. I disagree 100% with his take on aggression and what to do with aggressive dogs. However, when it comes to understanding how to train a dog and why, he's the guy. I'd also recommend getting a DVD as oppose to just a book. Training a dog is more about the subtle things than the big things and the subtle things are hard to properly convey with a book. Pet Co actually has pretty good classes in stores. I was surprised, but for basic things, they are a good place to start. Just remember, a dog that wants to please will ALWAYS out perform a dog that is trying to avoid punishment. Hitting, screaming at, or scaring a dog will never, ever make a good worker or a stable pet. They are much less consistant and MUCH more likely to feel that they must defend themself through biting. Not that I'm saying you would go that route, just throwing it out there.
That, and consistancy. Do things the same way every time with systematic progressive additions for complex behaviors and you are on the right track. As for hunting - I have no idea. I know some advocate shock collars. I am not 100% opposed to shock collars. But I do think they are only appropriate in extreme circumstances, when used by someone who actually knows how to use them (rare! even with trainers who use them), and to teach a dog to avoid a behavior rather than teaching him to conduct a behavior. Lastly, if you are going for a hunting dog, pay attention to the breeder. There is a significant difference between labs that are bred for companions and Labs that are bred for hunting. A good hunting dog is not necessarily a great pet. They have a lot of energy and aren't the easiest to control. But man, are they happy when they are hunting.
Lastly, listen to your gut if you work with a trainer. In my experience there are more bad ones than good. They love to come up with weird ideas on their own that aren't really based on anything. Even ones certified by the Association of Pet Dog Trainers can suck. If you see them working, getting frustrated and starting to abandon what they told you to do; dump them, right there. If they have to use any significant physical force to elicit a sit or whatever, dump them.

Rant off

Best of luck,

Tyler



I'll be trying my hand at dog training beyond the basic "here, sit, lay down" for the first time come April. We're getting a female lab with a respectable pedigree and we aim to train her as a family companion and waterfowl retriever.

Anyone have any books or training materials they could recommend? Any personal experience? Anything from basic obedience to advanced training.

[Ruffin' It]

Many of Ceaser's techniques are good, but usually not necessary. He generally works with problem dogs, so his approach is oriented as such. My theory is train as soft as you can. If you can get a dog to behave well without excessive dominance, then do it. In my experience, about 70% of dogs don't need much more than clearity and consistancy. My two highly dog-aggressive German Shepards required a lot of dominance and directions (never hit them once, but there was no confusion as to who was in charge). That said, his advice on spoiling, excercise, and boundaries applies to every dog/person relationship and will make the dog much happier than it would otherwise be in the long run.


Ditto

[Dave]

There is good news and there is bad news. The good news is the puppies were born last night. :) The bad news is there were only three in the litter and the single female was born DOA. :(

Kind of crazy how attached we were to the little girl (or to the idea having a little girl pup) even though she had not even been born yet...my wife cried when I delivered the news

We thought about it for a couple hours this morning and even talked about getting a girl from a different litter, but decided to stick with this litter. We get to bring home a boy towards the end of April.

A picture of the momma from this season...

http://ilikecoconuts.com/stuff/baili.jpg

And a picture of the poppa...

http://ilikecoconuts.com/stuff/sinbad.jpg

[mightymike]

Dave-Sorry for your loss. I know the pup you end up with will be perfect for you. "Brutus" is almost 6 months old. He looks like the male in the photo you posted. I've grown closer to this dog than any pet I've ever had. I'm highly allergic to dogs but so far it has worked to have him restricted to the the kitchen. I've trained him to retreive (the instinct was so strong I really don't think I've done much) and he responds to whistle commands and hand signals already. We just had some invisible fencing (Contain A Pet) installed around 2 1/2 of our 5 acres, so he has lots of room to safely roam. I highly recommend it. They were even able to put the wire fencing under the house at the threshold to our intrerior kitchen doors so we no longer have to step over the baby gates we had been using. Having him inside has really made a difference. I offer all of this as encouragement-keep us posted!

[HMR]

Our puppy chewed through the wiring for the brake light on my fiberglass shell. I spent an hour yesterday repairing the wires. All the while he was sitting at my feet watching as I wrapped the wire in electrical tape, then covered that with heat shrink tubing and finally hid everything below the lip of the shell in the truckbed. I put him in the truck with 5 different chew toys while I went to grab our Aussie to take them both to the beach. 10 minutes later I came back out to the truck. The wires were shredded, chew toys untouched and the puppy wagging his cute little tail.

Oh how I love puppies...

[the dude]

Congrats at getting a dog, sorry to read the female didn't make it. Getting a puppy can be such an emotional experience. I am on my third dog for bird hunting, I am by no means an expert, but I have gone through a lot with my mutts.

In my opinion, you should read every book you can on labs and training dogs. Get lots of knowledge in you and different ideas and different approaches and different views. There are lots of great books out there. The already mentioned Wolters is a good read, but outdated. I also REALLY like "The Labrador Shooting Dog" buy Mike Gould. It is a great read. The Art of Raising a Puppy by The Monks of New Skete is also interesting.

Wrap your mind around using a electronic collar. Either you will, or you won't. Don't punish your dog later by "not" using it now and find out later that you want to. I highly recommend the proper use of an e-collar. We can go more into that later if you are struggling with it.

I would then decide on one of two programs. Smartworks or Training with Mike Lardy. And stick with the program. Don't use some of this and some of that. They are both well proven and fanatastic training devices. They are the only two I would recommend.

I would then try and find the book "How to Raise a Puppy You Can Live With" by Clarice Rutherford and David H. Neil . A another Great book on raising a pup.

After that, enjoy your new dog for the first year of it's life. (well hopefully for many years) Let it play and grow and teach it to become a good citizen. Start teaching obedience from the moment you bring him home but leave the discipline for later. Play fetch, let it follow you around, go swimming...Just don't push to hard to fast.

here's my two pride and joys, Diesel at 10 months and Cruiser at 6 years

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v511/bjtaylor/DSC02470.jpg

[TheGillz]

Hands down the best training guide money can buy. These monks have been raising and training shepherds for many years.

How to Be Your Dog's Best Friend: The Classic Training Manual for Dog Owners

http://www.amazon.com/How-Your-Dogs-Best-Friend/dp/0316610003/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205190043&sr=8-2

We have used the principles to train our 10 month old Newf, notoriously sweet but stubborn breed, just last night I was marveling at the heel she was able to do with my 35lb 6 year old daughter, never left her side the whole 2 mile walk home from the park. She will even heel with me pretty well sans leash, although we have just started on that. I can't recomend it highly enough.

For more speciallized birding and what not I don't know, but to start, you should deffinately read and practice their practices to begin to know the new member of your family.

[crawler#976]

My best advise is to be very, very consistent in your commands - that means everyone in the family MUST use the same commands, similar tone of voice if possible, and gestures for hand signals as the training progresses. It will keep the dog from being confused. Hours of consistent repetition will produce outstanding results.

Labs are highly motivated by food - I still keep a pocket full of small bite dog food in my pocket as motivation.

We used the Arizona Dog Whisperer last year to assist us in training our last rescued Lab. He'd had no training, and at 6 was pretty well set in his ways. He responded very well to the training, and it's allowed me to continue his education with more traditional means. The whole idea of pack mentality is pretty neat, but doesn't take the place of the obedience training needed in a gun dog.

I prefer to have my dogs obey hand signals vs. a clicker or whistle - to me it's a necessity. My last dear boy Chaco went deaf due to a vet using a product that is supposed to clean and disinfect ears. It has a 1 in 1000 chance of causing deafness, and in his case it did. He was only 8 at the time, and without being fully versed in hand signals would have been lost. Of course he figured out that if he didn't look at me, he didn't have to do anything...

Mark

[Dave]

I also REALLY like "The Labrador Shooting Dog" buy Mike Gould. It is a great read.

Funny you should bring that one up. I was at the local Border's a few weeks ago and that was the ONLY retriever book they had on the shelf. I couldn't believe it was their only option, but I am picking it up this week.


Wrap your mind around using a electronic collar. Either you will, or you won't. Don't punish your dog later by "not" using it now and find out later that you want to. I highly recommend the proper use of an e-collar. We can go more into that later if you are struggling with it.

An e-collar is something I have already decided to use and I will be doing my homework on how to use it and when to use it. I know they can be a fantastic training tool in the right hands.


I would then decide on one of two programs. Smartworks or Training with Mike Lardy. And stick with the program. Don't use some of this and some of that. They are both well proven and fanatastic training devices. They are the only two I would recommend.

I have read a lot about Smartworks but I had not heard of Training with Mike Lardy. I am planning on going with the Smartworks planning as that came highly recommended by the breeder.



After that, enjoy your new dog for the first year of it's life. (well hopefully for many years) Let it play and grow and teach it to become a good citizen. Start teaching obedience from the moment you bring him home but leave the discipline for later. Play fetch, let it follow you around, go swimming...Just don't push to hard to fast.

Thank you for the advice. On another forum that is hunting specific, I read a pretty good thread written by a guy who went to fast with his dog. There were definitely some solid lessons to be learned in his write up. I've actually printed it and added it to my file.


here's my two pride and joys, Diesel at 10 months and Cruiser at 6 years

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v511/bjtaylor/DSC02470.jpg

Fantastic dogs! I love yellow labs. We just don't see many around here for some reason.

Neat looking sneak boat you've got there too!

[Dave]

Also, thank you to everyone for chiming in with training tips or reading material suggestions. They have all be every helpful!

[the dude]

Mike Gould just has a way about his ability to write that I really enjoyed. He comes across as a very down-to-earth sort of fellow. I started off in the field trial and hunt test circles and quickly fell away from it. just not my style. I want my dogs to perform, but I didn't like the politics and elitism. His book brought me back to reality. Although I follow the Lardy training for my dogs, a lot of what Gould says and does makes a lot of sense.

Smartworks is an excellent choice.

The boat is a hand made (by yours truly) Devlin Broadbill stitch and glue design sneak boat. I love it. I can't wait until time permits to build a tender and ditch the Lund. Me and the dogs both feel safer in the sneak boat then in the Lund on those ruff days.

[FlyingWen]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v511/bjtaylor/DSC02470.jpg


Man..... I want a puppy now!!!
Wil trained Service Dog and Police K-9s in college up in Prescott, AZ

[Dave]

:jump:

http://www.ilikecoconuts.com/gallery/d/9116-2/3-16-08+Baili+Pup+034.jpg

[Beerman]

While choosing a training program, you should be realistic about what you are looking for in a hunting dog, and about your abilities as a trainer. Wolters books are great for a person who is looking for a "Meat Dog" A meat dog is one which will bring you your game but may not have the flair of a competition trained dog. If you are looking to compete in any of the dog games (Field Trials, Hunt Tests) you will want to use either Smartworks by Evan Graham or Mike Lardy's retriever training materials. Both of these programs have produced champion quality dogs. I recommend going to RetrieverTraining.net. Evan Graham is a regular poster over there and he is great about helping. Another great resource is finding a retriever club in your area. This will put you in contact with many people who have a lot of experience training competition quality dogs.

[Dave]

Louie!

http://ilikecoconuts.com/gallery/d/9708-2/DSC_0355.JPG

http://ilikecoconuts.com/gallery/d/9711-2/DSC_0356.JPG

[the dude]

great looking pup!!

[Dave]

great looking pup!!

Thanks! He's doing pretty good so far. The first night was rough, didn't get much sleep. He did 10x better last night. Thankfully, our older border collie has accepted him as part of the family.


http://ilikecoconuts.com/gallery/d/9724-1/IMGP1602.jpg

[jeeperaz]

That bird toy above looks familiar....

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3036/2608882445_d4ac4f6f9f_o.jpg

[Dave]

Just thought I'd throw out an update on Louie. He'll be five months old next week and is going through a pretty intense teething stage right now. He's handling it pretty good, but I know it's bothering him. He's been a real hoot as a general pet/companion and is growing like a weed. He's up to 40 pounds and is just about as big as our seven year old border collie. He's taken to water and will swim just for the fun of swimming, even in cooler water.

His retrieving is really starting to develop. This past weekend, it seems like a switch went off. He would always retrieve, but he never showed any great desire in the act of retrieving...more so just wanted to go get his toy/bumper/whatever. He'd hustle out to it and then would normally just run around the yard. We wouldn't chase him, that's what he wanted. Instead we just left him alone. Basically saying that if he wasn't going to play by our rules, then play time was over.

Sit, stay, and here are the three biggies we're fine tuning right now. Sit is about 95%, here is not quite there but getting better every day and really improved the last week or so. Stay he picked up on real fast. He'll "sit & stay" until released, even when his food bowl or a treat is on the floor for him. He'll even sit and stay right beside me while I'm throwing the ball for our border collie. Hell, last night I even sat him down in the front room, told him to stay, and then walked out the front door to my get something out of my truck. He was still sitting in the same spot when I came back through the front door. He got a treat for that one!

This weekend he really starting showing some drive when it came to the actual retrieving. We were on a canoe trip and I was just casually tossing bumpers for him in the river. On one of the tosses, I noticed he really charged out and back. So I threw a few more, working on sitting, staying, and release. He charged hard through all of them (!!!) and was really putting on a show. He was bucking through the shallow water and swimming hard in the deeper water. By the time we got the camera out and figured out how to put it in video mode, his interest was waning, but he still did as he was told after a little encouragement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZRa7duD7TA

(Awful video quality, I know. It was shot with a P&S Pentax that we use mostly just for taking pictures on paddling trips)

We put the bumper away after that toss since he was starting to lose interest.

Last night we worked some more in the yard and he was charging hard again, both on the run out and run back. I really think something must have clicked this weekend because it's almost a night and day difference.