Commercial Truck Tires

[Carl2500]

Alright I'm looking at my options for new tires for my truck. My project is making a camper truck, that's still very off road capable. I want to take it up through Canada and Alaska, so it'll see alot of highway miles.

I'm exploring the possibility of running commercial truck wheels (10 lug 22.5x8.25), and commercial tires.

Here's why,
I'll get good ground clearance from the height of the tires. (tires listed below are 41-44" tall)
I'll get great fuel economy for a tire that big.
They should be easily available just about anywhere.
They should last over 300K miles.
Each tire is rated to 6175lbs (The truck's 6280lbs now , I expect almost 9K after the camper is loaded)
The large diameter rims, and narrow tires with stiff sidewalls, should help in the snow.


I went to a local dealer and they recomended some Kelly KDM drive tires front and rear.

They are $392 per tire (I could get cheaper retreads in the rear too), wheels would be $95 for steel, or $250 for aluminum.

Here are the specs for the tire.
http://www.kellytires.com/commercia...ucts/akdm1.html

Also, take a look at this website, www.ricksontruck.com, they carry 19.5" tires for the same kind of application.

Thought I'd post some of the figures I was coming across,

225/75/R16 stock tires = 37lbs each, 148lbs total
My 38/15.50/R18 tires = 98lbs each, 392lbs total
KDM 295/75/R22.5 tires = 128lbs each, 512lbs total

16X6.5 stock wheels = 26lbs each, 104lbs total
My 18X12.50 wheels = 36lbs each, 144lbs total
22.5X8.25 wheels = 55lbs each, 220lbs total

480lb difference from stock to commercial tires
196lb difference from my current setup to commercial tires

It's definitely some additional weight, I'm wondering if it will be worth it.
Right now the motor is making around 400HP/700TQ to the wheels. I don't think it'll have a problem with the weight of the tires.

So what are your thoughts?

[mcgovski]

Carl 2500
I have got a similar setup to you with similar "plans" I Have the steel rickson 19.5's with Hankook tires. Off the top of my head I dont know the tire size, bit I am at about 35" tire height. I Love the tire / wheel combo. It is different, they track different on the highway, like you are on train tracks...they have been great in snow, but they are lacking in mud. you cant air them down I have been told and I have not tried...
post some pics of your rig, I would love to see what you are doing. I am working on 2 sets of 6 volt batteries in series, 568 amp hours (I think) plus expanding my solar panels...

[charlieaarons]

Alright I'm looking at my options for new tires for my truck. My project is making a camper truck, that's still very off road capable. I want to take it up through Canada and Alaska, so it'll see alot of highway miles.

I'm exploring the possibility of running commercial truck wheels (10 lug 22.5x8.25), and commercial tires.

So what are your thoughts?

You want the smallest possible wheels for a "very offroad capable" vehicle, not the largest. Notice I said wheels, not tires.
Put the 16X6.5" wheels back on.
A Michelin 11.00R16 XZL is 38.7" tall and has a 4800 lb load capacity per tire. Enough for 9600 lb on the rear axle, equal to your entire stated weight.
That tire you CAN air down. The tire weighs 107 lb.
If you stay on pavement and hard dirt roads then the 22.5 will work fine, but it will dig right into soft terrain untill your diff hits.
A 295/75R22.5 is ~40" tall.

Charlie

[mcgovski]

I wish I had found this forum a couple of years ago when I was outfitting my truck / camper. I was pretty much scared into tire failure by another RV based forum because of load weight. I would have look into other options.
Airbags? they fail under load every trip. the bags greatly improve the handling, prevents back front and side to side rock. But when you are driving along and you drop 60lbs out of 1 bag, its a bit hairy. perhaps overload springs are better? (sorry for the rant)
Rickson 19.5 w/commercial tires are great, but they are going to dig right in as previously stated.
Dang, now this thread has got me thinking....

[762X39]

I would definately stay away from the 22.5 inch truck tires you were looking at.It isn't the power your engine makes that would be a problem (lots of larger rigs make much less power).You would very likely grenade your drive train trying to turn such a heavy tire/rim combo.The rotational forces on your axle shafts and diffs will be awesome (in a bad way).Your truck was never designed to handle such forces as it is only a 3/4 or 1 ton whereas the tires you describe are typically used on a 5 to whatever ton truck that travels over the road.Charlie has it right, go back to a 16.5 inch rim and use the Michelins.

[psychohawk]

Similair concern I too am sorting out, though I question going to XZLs ...

1) I'm not sure these are made any longer
2) even if they are, they're not in stock at every tire rack from here to AK
3) they have a low speed rating ... ~ 60 MPH

16" rims, even though stock, will have a reduced ground clearance over a larger rim.

19.5" rims seem a good alternative, one I'm considering myself; 21.5" seems too much, as mentioned previously.

17" or 18" might be better if sticking to a LT format, but you're back at the weight dilema.

Summary: I'm leaning towards the 19.5".

[charlieaarons]

Similair concern I too am sorting out, though I question going to XZLs ...

1) I'm not sure these are made any longer
2) even if they are, they're not in stock at every tire rack from here to AK
3) they have a low speed rating ... ~ 60 MPH

16" rims, even though stock, will have a reduced ground clearance over a larger rim.

19.5" rims seem a good alternative, one I'm considering myself; 21.5" seems too much, as mentioned previously.

17" or 18" might be better if sticking to a LT format, but you're back at the weight dilema.

Summary: I'm leaning towards the 19.5".

1) The XZL is available worldwide including the US. The MSPN is 82224. The XZL is a modern tread design designed to replace the XL and be longer lasting and more roadable in the process*, along with the XML in a few sizes.

2) Isn't the whole point to buy the best tire, not the cheapest most available tire? Anyone travelling to remote places should consider carrying a 2nd unmounted spare.

3) The speed rating is 68mph, not 60 mph. Most 19.5s and 22.5s are rated at either 65 or 75.

Charlie

* The XZLs on my U500 are wearing at the rate of 70K miles for the rears, 90K miles for the front. Is that enough tire mileage?

[psychohawk]

Isn't the whole point to buy the best tire, not the cheapest most available tire?


I would agree, but I also want a tire that can be replaced should the need arise ... I challenge you to show me a website where I can buy these tires tomorrow. Not eBay and not "Chuck's Garage" down the street. A well known retailer that has new tires in stock, ready to go.

BTW, Michelin's web site doesn't list them in the sizes you're suggesting.

www.michelintruck.com/michelintruck/tires-retreads/tireInfo.do?tread=XZL

[Robthebrit]

The size you need is not classed as a truck tire, you need pickup tires.

XZLs can be hard to find in smaller sizes, lots of land rovers run them.

EDIT: Ok, I just looked and 1100r16's are next to impossible to find new, may not be the best tire to use being so hard to find.

Rob

[charlieaarons]

I would agree, but I also want a tire that can be replaced should the need arise ... I challenge you to show me a website where I can buy these tires tomorrow. Not eBay and not "Chuck's Garage" down the street. A well known retailer that has new tires in stock, ready to go.

BTW, Michelin's web site doesn't list them in the sizes you're suggesting.

www.michelintruck.com/michelintruck/tires-retreads/tireInfo.do?tread=XZL

I could call the tire dealer in Anchorage 9 miles from my house (the same one I purchased a set of 8.25R16 XZLs from) and he could order a set. He could have them in 2-3 days if one were willing to pay air freight, 2 weeks by land/sea (to Alaska). In fact, I will call him tomorrow and let you all know the outcome. I have a .pdf "Michelin Truck Tire Characteristics". "A" means availability; "L" means limited availability. "+" = not available. 11.00s are marked "L". I had a Michelin military guy at their HQ in S. Carolina tell me recently that a "+" tire, 475/80R20 XML, was "easy to order".
Also: rim size has nothing to do with ground clearance; only tire size. A high tire/rim size ratio implies better performance at lower pressures and a much better ride over rough terrain, also higher load capacities at lower psi, since the air chamber has more volume. The big widely publicized trend towards lower profile tires with bigger rims is an appearance/fad thing; I understand the reasons for espousing 22.5s are different but really 19.5 is the limit for pickups for several reasons and then in short tires (even F450/550 uses 32s stock; Earthroamer runs 35-36" singles in 19.5 or 22.5).
I have spent years researching tires on pickups and other light vehicles with solid axles (like M37s & Landcruisers) and I really think 40" outside diameter is the max for a 1 ton pickup with Dana 60 front axle for reliability.

Charlie

[Carlyle]

I guess another question to add to this is if a person put the Michelin 11.00 XZL's on a one ton truck would there be a clearance issue in the front? Would a little body work and fender flares be required? What are the chances that one of the spares would still fit in the factory location under the vehicle? BTW, how do they ride? How are they on ice and snow?

[charlieaarons]

I guess another question to add to this is if a person put the Michelin 11.00 XZL's on a one ton truck would there be a clearance issue in the front? Would a little body work and fender flares be required? What are the chances that one of the spares would still fit in the factory location under the vehicle? BTW, how do they ride? How are they on ice and snow?

I put 11.00R16 XLs on my 88 F350 with only a 2" add-a-leaf lift. They occaisonally rubbed the front springs very slightly at full lock. No flares needed.
Ride is great on dirt roads due to the quantity of air in the tires and the necessity to run at only 55 psi in the rear with almost 7000 lb on the rear axle, about 45-50 in the front. At speeds under 2mph you can sometimes feel the lugs on smooth pavement; not as much as with XLs. They hum a little bit at speed.
My XZLs on my U500 (much bigger, double the load) do really well on ice - good braking, no understeer.
The spare would definitely not fit in the stock location. I looked long and hard for a rear bumper with a swingaway tire mount (I had a 4 Wheel camper) and finally got one.
Incidentally this size Michelin is quite popular with owners of old Dodge Power Wagons and M37s, along with 9.00R16.

Charlie

[Carlyle]

These sounds like nice tires to put on as soon as my 305 Nitto's wear out, that won't take long at the rate my truck chews them up! I guess I need to start planning a rear swing away rack for a spare or two. I wonder if I could use this as a way of incorporating a bumper behind the camper and have it fold down to create a set of stairs to the camper... Any design planners out there?

[Carlyle]

Next question, where do you buy these gems? :drool:

[charlieaarons]

Answer: they can be ordered from the Michelin warehouses in the US. $718.75 each. By a Michelin dealer, using the MSPN I gave you. Figure raising your gearing two notches, like from 3.73 to 4.56.
I called a local Michelin truck tire dealer and got an answer 3 hrs later.
You'd have less fit issues depending on the truck with 255/100R16 XZLs, the replacement for 9.00R16: 36.5" instead of 38.7", lighter. I don't have the MSPN for that tire. It also has an excellent load capacity: 4675 lb at 85 psi @ 62 mph or else 3750 lb @ 65 psi @ 68 mph. My guess for those would be $600 each.

Charlie

[Redline]

For extremely heavy 'light-trucks' a medium-duty 19.5" truck tire might be the right tire for the job. I'm thinking of 1-ton, or 2-3 ton trucks (F350, F450/F550 type). In most circumstances I think that light-trucks are better off with a light-truck tire, and these days we have a large selection of quality, tough tires in many tread patterns. It always boils down to how you are actually going to use the vehicle. Military/commercial stuffs sounds good, but it is not necessarily the best for overland or typical off-highway 4x4 use. This is not a matter of cost with me because some of the specialty light-truck tires are very expensive and you might actually be able to buy medium-duty tires for about the same money.

I agree with Mr. Aarons about the use of a shorter wheel with more tire. Having said this, the good folks at Rickson wanted me to test a set of their 19.5" wheels on my F350 many years ago. Though this sounded interesting, I knew that this was not the ideal tire and wheel combination for my application. At the time (and since) I have used mostly 255/85R16D tires. The 19.5 wheels don’t have a safety-bead and are not well suited for low pressures for slower off-road use. 19.5” tires will also be firm/stiff. Again, if your light-truck tires are overloaded or not up to the job, then maybe these commercial tires are for you, but I would be careful of choosing commercial tires just because they are cool & different (and I like cool and different ☺ .

For a very short time I ran a set of Michelin 9.00R16 XZL all-steel tires. These are awesome tires for sure, but large, heavy, and stiff. I would bluntly say that they were very loud and I could feel all the lugs hitting the pavement at slow speeds. Unloaded, they were very stiff and I didn’t care for the ride. I had to lower the PSI to around 20-PSI to get a decent ride on my F350 Power Stroke. To clear these 36-in tires I had to put a small spring lift (2-2.5”) on the front, even though I already had an aftermarket bumper with extra clearance. The positive arch springs also reduced ride quality. After only a couple weeks I had the stock springs and 255/85 tires put back on.

[psychohawk]

Redline, can I get your opinion? Not hi-jacking the thread because it seems Carl2500, myself and you have similar trucks; mine a 2004 F250 (leaf springs) that I'm looking to add a 4WC.

Wheels: 16" stock
Lift: 6" suspension
Tires (current): 315/75 BFG AT (rub leafs)

What tire set up might you recommend? Sticking with Charlie's statement about tire/rim ratio with a truck that sees, sadly, 95% street/commute duty, the rest off road and fun. My off-road is mainly exploration on graded dirt roads, sand, some snow/ice, not rock-crawling.

I want a tough wheel/tire that isn't prone to flats, good mileage on street with good off road capability with sufficient weight/safety capacity that doesn't worry me. Does this exist? Tall order, huh?

Thanks,
Carl

[Redline]

I will give you my opinion, but you know what opinions are like...

Firstly, I have been driving full-sized pickups for many years and the only lift I've added was the 2.5-inch F350 suspension mentioned above which was promptly removed. Many of these trucks were tall stock and really didn't need lift, taller 33-inch tires worked well on stock springs. On my F350 I did tuck the exhaust up higher and had a extreme-duty transfer-case skid manufactured which offers more clearance. The only other rigs that I have lifted are my recent 2005 LJ Rubicon and my '06 4Runner, both lifted about 2.5-3-inches.

If your truck will clear them, or already has them, I would stick with 16-inch wheels. I like the 16-inch tire choices for HD light-trucks. I don't have specific wheel recommendations, you will have to pick your poison. I would suggest not buying too wide a wheel if you might run a narrow tire. A 16x8 should be pretty versatile for several sizes.

I also prefer narrower tires for all the reasons you can read about here on The Portal. To me, a 285/75R16 is a wide tire, and is the widest tire I've ever owned. The reason I say all of this is because you have a 6-inch lift and I assume you won't want to run a shorter/narrower tire. Many people think lots of wheel well opening looks funny while others like it. Would you be willing to go to a shorter, narrower tire, say a 255/85, 285/75, 305/70R16? Thirty-fives are nice but getting them narrower than 12.5-inches is tough.

My neighbor has an '03 F350 PSD with a 6-inch lift. He has some wide (not sure of the size) BFG AT tires with fancy, wide wheels that he purchased when he had the lift installed a few years ago. He is an avid hunter. Last year I traded him a set of barely used Toyo M55 in 255/85R16D. He mounted these on his stock wheels and rarely puts the wider/bigger BFGs back on. He likes how his truck performs on and off-highway with the Toyos. There is a thread here about the M55s and I made several comments there. The M55s took lots of weight compared to the Toyo MTs I have owned, but for your high/typical percentage of highway travel you might really consider this tire, especially if you consider the 255/85R16 size. The 255/85R16 M55 they are now load-range-E, carrying 3,415-lbs per tire at 80-psi (most 255/85 are load-range-D).

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7861&highlight=toyo+M55

Whatever you decide I would suggest you consider a set of Centramatic continuous balancers.

http://www.centramatic.com/

Another tire to consider if you want a 'traction' tire is the Toyo MT. The sidewalls are stiff but this is a very rugged tire with a good reputation for traction and wear with good road manners. The two sets I have owned took very little weight to balance.

You said good milage on the street and to me that means a narrower, smaller tire than a 35x12.50. A narrower and/or shorter tire might also prevent the tires rubbing your springs.

There are lots of other tires to consider, the current & new BFG MT come to mind. A FWC doesn’t weigh very much for a full-sized truck and I would be surprised if you couldn’t find enough tire in a common light-truck size.




Redline, can I get your opinion? Not hi-jacking the thread because it seems Carl2500, myself and you have similar trucks; mine a 2004 F250 (leaf springs) that I'm looking to add a 4WC.

Wheels: 16" stock
Lift: 6" suspension
Tires (current): 315/75 BFG AT (rub leafs)

What tire set up might you recommend? Sticking with Charlie's statement about tire/rim ratio with a truck that sees, sadly, 95% street/commute duty, the rest off road and fun. My off-road is mainly exploration on graded dirt roads, sand, some snow/ice, not rock-crawling.

I want a tough wheel/tire that isn't prone to flats, good mileage on street with good off road capability with sufficient weight/safety capacity that doesn't worry me. Does this exist? Tall order, huh?

Thanks,
Carl

[Carlyle]

How rough is a ZXL going to ride versus an XL? Are they both just rough as a cob? Any good deals to be had on the 255/100R16 XZLs?

[charlieaarons]

How rough is a ZXL going to ride versus an XL? Are they both just rough as a cob? Any good deals to be had on the 255/100R16 XZLs?

What do you define as "rough"? Both transmit lug vibration at <2 mph the XLs more than XZLs. Likewise both whine at high speeds, again the XLs more. Both ride very well offroad/bad roads due to the large amount of air you're riding on.
No good deals except you could try Dollar Tire in Edmonton, the Canadian Army uses that size); about $6-700 each new.

Charlie

[Carlyle]

I left a message with Dollar Tire in Edmonton and we'll see what they have I guess. My local Michelin dealers thought I was cracked to even try and find them. Sounds like most of these military tires are going directly to Iraq right now.

[charlieaarons]

You can tell your local Michelin dealers that they are too lazy to pick up the phone, because my local dealer found a set (in a Lower 48 Michelin warehouse) in 3hrs.
I've been hearing this "you can't get them" thing for years. Somehow, by magic, I have sets of : 7.50R16 XCL,8.25R16 XZL, 9.00R16 XZL and XL, 11.00R16 XL, and 4 spare 395/85R20 XZL.

Charlie

[Carlyle]

I guess when I'm read to buy I'm going to need the phone of your dealer in AK. LOL! or find one in Colorado that is willing to get off their duff. BTW, are you using a truck tire dealer?

But I still need to design a spare tire rack for the back of my truck. I'm trying to decide if I if I want to go with a swing to the side style that is so common or go with a swing down to the ground that will open up into a set of steps when down. It would need some sort of gas arm assist to compensate for the weight of tire of tires. Any ideas out there?

[charlieaarons]

It's Phelps Tire in Anchorage. Maybe they can have them "drop-shipped" to you. Mention my name when you talk to the guy.
Be sure your truck can really handle tires this big before ordering them. The stock front bumper needs to go or be radically trimmed. They will fit fine on stock 16" rims but do '04s run 17 or 18"? If so, just for looks or because of brake caliper diameter? A modest lift is helpful as well.
When designing a spare tire mount remember the tire alone weighs 90 lb; 125-130 lb with a steel rim.
And you will definitely have to re-gear the truck from 3.73 to 4.56. Think about locking diffs if you are going to all this trouble already for a tire best designed for offroad biased overlanding. I like the Detroit Soflocker for the rear 10.5" Sterling axle and of course an ARB airlocker for the front. With a mild lift kit and diff installation w/lockers, and an extra spare this will end up costing 8 Gs.
I want to make it clear this will not end up being an ultimate road cruiser. You can buy those stock with 18-20" wheels. It will be, as mentioned, a very good offroad biased overlander. Because of the tires you will need to keep your speed under 70 mph. And if you are going to drive at 68-70 for long stretches I'd put another 5-8 psi in the tires. After calculating the proper pressures after weighing the truck at both ends, absolutely totally loaded. Michelin publishes inflation tables for all their tires; the offroad types also with general offroad (<40 mph) and mud/sand (<12 mph) pressures. At www.michelintransport.com You have to pick French language if you want the offroad inflation tables.

Charlie

[Carlyle]

Thanks for the info Charlie and it gives me more things to ponder and research. On the plus side, I already have a mild lift and an after market bumper that will clear big tires. The truck came standard with 16" wheels as well as the spare set I picked up along the way so that won't be an issue either. If I need to cut and flare the front wheel wells a bit then so be it. Gearing is the big issue and something I will have to research more, obviously more time on the wide world waste of time, aka www.

The rear spare tire mount should be fun to design, but I wonder if anyone has done this sort of thing before? Every time you think something is new you find ten to fifty people who have beat you to it. If not, then I need someone to come up with a CAD or go back to my old paper, pencil and ruler.

Any bored CAD people out there? I'll buy you beer for your trouble.

Thanks again for the insight Charlie.

[Redline]

I agree with the 'caution' Charlie Aarons is offering regarding your rig becoming an "off road biased overlander". Lots to think about as you said.

To quote myself from post #16:

For a very short time I ran a set of Michelin 9.00R16 XZL all-steel tires. These are awesome tires for sure, but large, heavy, and stiff. I would bluntly say that they were very loud and I could feel all the lugs hitting the pavement at slow speeds. Unloaded, they were very stiff and I didn’t care for the ride. I had to lower the PSI to around 20-PSI to get a decent ride on my F350 Power Stroke.

I’m not the only one that sees it this way. Today I was in a grocery store and I perused a 4-Wheel & Off-Road magazine article where they tested some very large tires. They tested some Michelin tires, I think they were 11.00R16. I don’t remember their exact words but in a sidebar they basically said the tires were very stiff and would not flex because of their construction and weight carrying capacity. It might be worth a trip to the store to read their opinion.

It’s very hard to decide if this is the direction you want to go and ultimately you may just have to put your money where you curiosity is, that is what I did many years ago. It will be very expensive to try these tires and there is a limited market for them used (and heavy to ship). I'm of the opinion that these all-steel military type tires are the wrong treads for most people who want or need a dual purpose vehicle and/or one that sees lots of highway miles 'getting there'. Ultimately there is only one way to find out it there are right for you, spend you money and give them a go. After my very brief test and ownership experience where I decided I definitely didn’t want to run these are my everyday tire, I considered myself very lucky to find a local buyer and dumped them quick.

Although I like the shorter 16-inch wheels and agree they are better for off-highway it's very possible that if you need or want a heavier-duty tire to carry more weight and last longer with your load, 19.5-inch wheels might be a better choice than the extremely off-road biased Michelin tires.

My three cents.



It's Phelps Tire in Anchorage. Maybe they can have them "drop-shipped" to you. Mention my name when you talk to the guy.
Be sure your truck can really handle tires this big before ordering them. The stock front bumper needs to go or be radically trimmed. They will fit fine on stock 16" rims but do '04s run 17 or 18"? If so, just for looks or because of brake caliper diameter? A modest lift is helpful as well.
When designing a spare tire mount remember the tire alone weighs 90 lb; 125-130 lb with a steel rim.
And you will definitely have to re-gear the truck from 3.73 to 4.56. Think about locking diffs if you are going to all this trouble already for a tire best designed for offroad biased overlanding. I like the Detroit Soflocker for the rear 10.5" Sterling axle and of course an ARB airlocker for the front. With a mild lift kit and diff installation w/lockers, and an extra spare this will end up costing 8 Gs.
I want to make it clear this will not end up being an ultimate road cruiser. You can buy those stock with 18-20" wheels. It will be, as mentioned, a very good offroad biased overlander. Because of the tires you will need to keep your speed under 70 mph. And if you are going to drive at 68-70 for long stretches I'd put another 5-8 psi in the tires. After calculating the proper pressures after weighing the truck at both ends, absolutely totally loaded. Michelin publishes inflation tables for all their tires; the offroad types also with general offroad (<40 mph) and mud/sand (<12 mph) pressures. At www.michelintransport.com You have to pick French language if you want the offroad inflation tables.

Charlie

[charlieaarons]

Redline, I couldn't have said it better. Don't buy Michelin military tires unless you really know what you're getting into, are willing to spend the money to match them to an appropriate vehicle, and have a good use for them. Don't buy them just because I happen to like them (Tom Sheppard likes them too!). I was mainly piping up to counter the "can't get them" statement which I've been hearing for years and disproving.
However: the tires in the article were 16.00R20 XZLs, a little bigger: 333 lb (almost 4 times as heavy), 53" tall, 17" wide and designed to carry 14500 lb each. Too big for even my U500, though some have tried. 255/100R16s or 11.00R16s will flex fine under a 1 ton.

Charlie

[Redline]

I'm sure you are correct and the tires are available. Many years ago I purchased my 9.00R16s very easily. It was well before the recent wars, but I was able to go into a local Michelin truck tire dealer and order them. Luckily I have a big Michelin warehouse in my city and I had them quickly. This was about 8-years ago and I think they sold the XZLs to me at cost just because they wanted to see someone put them on a pickup, about $250.00 each back then.

These tires are cool because they are different but I know I don't care to run them on the highway much and the 9.00R16s are too big for my pickup. The 8.25s would be neat and should fit without a lift but I’m really happy with many of my 255/85 treads. The 7.50s are a little short but could work on my F350 and 4Runner.




Redline, I couldn't have said it better. Don't buy Michelin military tires unless you really know what you're getting into, are willing to spend the money to match them to an appropriate vehicle, and have a good use for them. Don't buy them just because I happen to like them (Tom Sheppard likes them too!). I was mainly piping up to counter the "can't get them" statement which I've been hearing for years and disproving.
However: the tires in the article were 16.00R20 XZLs, a little bigger: 333 lb (almost 4 times as heavy), 53" tall, 17" wide and designed to carry 14500 lb each. Too big for even my U500, though some have tried. 255/100R16s or 11.00R16s will flex fine under a 1 ton.

Charlie

[Carlyle]

So the general consensus is that the Michelin military tires and too rough on the prolonged highway use and I know I'd hear it from the wife on that one... If so, what does that leave a person for tire choices on a 16" rim? A 19.5 rim and tire combination leave you very limited off road ability as you can't air down. To have a decent size tires with some clearance you need, IMHO for what's it's worth 33" or greater. What is available with a decent load rating that is going to wear well and be able to air down? The Nitto's or Toyos' (same company and basically the same tire), are a once a year tires at $200 a piece. Goodyear makes a Kevlar tire called the Silent Armor with a load rating E, but I don't know much else about it.

Any other suggestions out there?

[boblynch]

You may want to check out the last few pages of this thread. Milo12 started a discussion of the suitability of using the same tires as the Earthroamer for his Dodge build up. Scott Brady and Charlie offered additional info.

You may want to compare notes with Milo. You appear to have similar requirements. Best of luck. Let us know what tire you pick.

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5328

[psychohawk]

You may want to check out the last few pages of this thread. Milo12 started a discussion of the suitability of using the same tires as the Earthroamer for his Dodge build up. Scott Brady and Charlie offered additional info.

You may want to compare notes with Milo. You appear to have similar requirements. Best of luck. Let us know what tire you pick.

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5328

I just read it (beginning on page 4) and it seems there's no definitive answer there either ... matter-a-fact, the only thing common between this post and the other is Charlie touting the XZLs.

For me, the Toyo M55's are looking tempting.

Carl

[Redline]

Wow, you are going through Toyo MTs that fast!?


So the general consensus is that the Michelin military tires and too rough on the prolonged highway use and I know I'd hear it from the wife on that one... If so, what does that leave a person for tire choices on a 16" rim? A 19.5 rim and tire combination leave you very limited off road ability as you can't air down. To have a decent size tires with some clearance you need, IMHO for what's it's worth 33" or greater. What is available with a decent load rating that is going to wear well and be able to air down? The Nitto's or Toyos' (same company and basically the same tire), are a once a year tires at $200 a piece. Goodyear makes a Kevlar tire called the Silent Armor with a load rating E, but I don't know much else about it.

Any other suggestions out there?

[Redline]

Probably a good option. Just to make sure you are 'fully informed' you did read the M55 thread I linked?

The new Toyo M55 in load-range-E, mounted on a nice, true, aluminum wheel (16x7 or 16x8) and a set of Centramatic continuous wheel balancers would be a nice combination for heavy use. I would recommend this much more than the XZLs.


I just read it (beginning on page 4) and it seems there's no definitive answer there either ... matter-a-fact, the only thing common between this post and the other is Charlie touting the XZLs.

For me, the Toyo M55's are looking tempting.

Carl

[Redline]

I was at a new (to me) tire dealer today. I looked at some 285/75R18 (35”) Toyo MTs they ordered for a friend who decided to stay with 33s, priced some wheels (both 16 & 18") and inquired about the ever elusive, expensive, and extreme duty XZLs.

As posted above I had a set of 9.00R16 XZLs for a short time, didn't really like them for a variety of reasons, and still don't think they are the best tire for most of us (including me). Though I'm just as interested as the next guy in some cool exotic stuff.

The Michelin MSPN is 46526 for 8.25R16. They are load range D (good, not F like the 9.00R16) and if the computer was correct the distributor's ‘cost’ is $360.00 a tire. That means they would probably cost $400.00 or much more... maybe $500.00.

The tire shop made a call to their Michelin rep and he is supposed to check on the availability. If they are available through these guys it would be cool to get a set, but I'm sure not practical. And if they are 34", then only about one half inch height gain over the much more available 255/85R16.

I'm more likely to buy the 35" 285/75R18, or simply another set of 16" wheels, but you never know... :-) :-)

[Carlyle]

I finally got an answer back from the tire shop in Edmonton, AB and they have the ZXL's 9.00's at 90% tread for $500 a piece and they would not arrange shipping. $2500 plus unknown amount of shipping and duty for used tires... Now I just need to know if there is a comparable tire to the Toyo M55 in a size larger than 285/85-16 with a load rating?

[Redline]

I'm not a fan of tall wheels, BUT the 285/75R18 I mentioned above seems to have merit. Not too wide, 35" tall, 4,000-lb load rating in a Toyo MT



I finally got an answer back from the tire shop in Edmonton, AB and they have the ZXL's 9.00's at 90% tread for $500 a piece and they would not arrange shipping. $2500 plus unknown amount of shipping and duty for used tires... Now I just need to know if there is a comparable tire to the Toyo M55 in a size larger than 285/85-16 with a load rating?

[charlieaarons]

I finally got an answer back from the tire shop in Edmonton, AB and they have the ZXL's 9.00's at 90% tread for $500 a piece and they would not arrange shipping. $2500 plus unknown amount of shipping and duty for used tires... Now I just need to know if there is a comparable tire to the Toyo M55 in a size larger than 285/85-16 with a load rating?

$500 each? They charged me $400 each for 395/85R20 XZLs with 90% tread; about 2.5 times as much tire. Maybe supply and demand?
For that price I'd consider new ones for a fraction more. Incidentally, if you get new ones try to get the newer version 255/100R16 XZL.
Regarding 8.25R16s, the load capacity is 3195 lb @ 65psi @ 75 mph. So load capacity is not super-duper; it's merely the same as "normal" 235/85R16-285/75R16 type tires. If one wants super single type load capacities one must consider tires in the 9.00R16 to 325/85R16 size range. Or even 335/80R20s on a class 4 or 5.(1)

Charlie

(1) as mentioned elsewhere on the forum the highest load capacity 335/80R20 is not a Michelin, it's a Continental MPT81 at 6600 lb

[Redline]

That's good to know the capacities of the 8.25R16. I don't need the extra load range. 3195-lbs is about the same as 255/85R16 (3000 @ 65psi), should ride better, and 75-mph rating is better too for my applications. However, I'm likely to stay with light-truck tires for: choice, cost, availability, etc., etc.



$500 each? They charged me $400 each for 395/85R20 XZLs with 90% tread; about 2.5 times as much tire. Maybe supply and demand?
For that price I'd consider new ones for a fraction more. Incidentally, if you get new ones try to get the newer version 255/100R16 XZL.
Regarding 8.25R16s, the load capacity is 3195 lb @ 65psi @ 75 mph. So load capacity is not super-duper; it's merely the same as "normal" 235/85R16-285/75R16 type tires. If one wants super single type load capacities one must consider tires in the 9.00R16 to 325/85R16 size range. Or even 335/80R20s on a class 4 or 5.(1)

Charlie

(1) as mentioned elsewhere on the forum the highest load capacity 335/80R20 is not a Michelin, it's a Continental MPT81 at 6600 lb

[Carlyle]

After much deliberation I've decided to get a set of 19.5" wheels this summer and put on a set of Goodyear G-124 265/70R19.5's. This looks like a good compromise for load capacity versus traction and I won't have to replace tires every year hopefully. Anyone have a set of 19.5" wheels they want to sell?

[haven]

A fellow from Australia using the name "engineer" recently posted the following in the Mitsubishi Heavy Truck area of the forum:

"...Has anyone here tried the 19.5" singles? They are the pick at the moment in Oz..."

So he/she may have more information about what 19.5 tires are the favorites in the Outback.

Chip Haven

[Redline]

Probably a good choice for maximum wear and load carrying.



After much deliberation I've decided to get a set of 19.5" wheels this summer and put on a set of Goodyear G-124 265/70R19.5's. This looks like a good compromise for load capacity versus traction and I won't have to replace tires every year hopefully. Anyone have a set of 19.5" wheels they want to sell?

[Carlyle]

Thanks Chip, I'll check that out. Lot's of pluses to 19.5's and the only disadvantage I can see is not having the ability to air down below 65 psi. In reality, I use my vehicle more for back roads than off road. Know your limitations and keep a plan.

[wild1]

I will be interested to see what you think of the 19.5s on your superduty, a fellow camper was running them on his duramax crewcab with a camper weight similar to mine and was very happy with them. He was up in the 35,000 mile range and they looked like they had lots of miles left. He had done a lot of gravel and back roads and they worked great for those uses. I have tried the 285/75/16 super e and they have been a mixed bag. My Toyo MTs were a very rugged tire but they wore very quickly under load, I currently have the e rated BFG all terrains and they are doing much better from a durability standpoint. Michelin has also come out with a super e in this size and it is highly regarded for wear by the tire guys where I shop. Even with the higher ratings of these tires you are still pushing the upper edge of thier capacity. The bottom line is 12,000 trucks are hard on lightduty truck tires and the 19.5 is probably my next purchase.

[Redline]

Is "Super E' a new load range rating I'm not familiar with? I know of C,D,E,F,G etc. but Super E?


I will be interested to see what you think of the 19.5s on your superduty, a fellow camper was running them on his duramax crewcab with a camper weight similar to mine and was very happy with them. He was up in the 35,000 mile range and they looked like they had lots of miles left. He had done a lot of gravel and back roads and they worked great for those uses. I have tried the 285/75/16 super e and they have been a mixed bag. My Toyo MTs were a very rugged tire but they wore very quickly under load, I currently have the e rated BFG all terrains and they are doing much better from a durability standpoint. Michelin has also come out with a super e in this size and it is highly regarded for wear by the tire guys where I shop. Even with the higher ratings of these tires you are still pushing the upper edge of thier capacity. The bottom line is 12,000 trucks are hard on lightduty truck tires and the 19.5 is probably my next purchase.

[wild1]

Probably more of a marketing term then a tire industry standard, I first heard it used on the new generation of e rated 285/75/r16 tires rated to carry 3750 pounds at 80 psi, this was a signifigant step up from the standard e rated 235/85/r16 at about 3050 pounds at 80 psi.

[Carlyle]

Thanks for the input Wild1, I'll pick up the wheels from Discount soon at $180 each. I'm going to keep shopping for the G-124's as they want $439 each for them and I would prefer to pay less.

[Carlyle]

Big O is matching the Rickson price of $312 per tire and I ordered a set of 5.