Toyota Red or Green~Oh What To DO!

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Fresh engine here. (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/totallytropical1/album?.dir=/6d66&.src=ph)

Mr. Sucky's shop put some terrible looking weak pale green puke coolant in my new engine! I can't believe it!!!!!

Then he told me to change the coolant at the 500 mile oil change! I thought.....what the HECK! (I'm changing it sooner you little......!)

I don't want to make a terrible coolant mistake after all the pain I have gone through getting my engine finally fixed!

Can anyone help with the age old Toyota question?

Toyota RED or GREEN Coolant?


Any tips for changing/flushing the Coolant?

Must we use the engine drain plugs or is flushing with a hose good enough using heater on? When flushing with hose, do we do this with engine cold? I don't think I would want cold water flushing through my running temp. engine.

When we refill.....should we use distilled water for the other 50%.

Any other help/idea's?

Thanks!

~Mark

.
.
.

[BajaTaco]

Did you get a new water pump with your new engine? I know that the newer 5VZ-FE 6-cylinder engines have cooling systems that are designed to use the TOYOTA RED coolant. The red coolant is a formula without silicates or borates that are found in the traditional green coolants. It is also designed to have much longer service life. Once the seals are conditioned to the red coolant, the silicates can damage them if you switch to a traditional green coolant. I am not sure which coolant the 3.0 was designed for, but probably the red coolant as well. You should check into it, especially if your water pump is used to the red. If your pump is new, then maybe the green is not such a big deal. As far as flushing the system, you might want to take it to a dealer or shop that can thoroughly evacuate the system as well as reclaim the coolant for proper disposal.

I went through a hassle with this back in 2000 in San Diego when Pacific Beach Toyota serviced my truck and filled it with the green coolant (worse yet, without fully evacuating the red). They totally snubbed me on it and refused to make it right. I had to get Toyota USA corporate involved - it was a huge pain in the butt and a big waste of my time and energy.

[kcowyo]

Well I like red with my Enchiladas but I like green over my Burritos. Sometimes I go Christmas style with my Chimichangas.....:chowtime:

[Ursidae69]

Well I like red with my Enchiladas but I like green over my Burritos. Sometimes I go Christmas style with my Chimichangas.....:chowtime:

I'm always go red on my chicharron burros, green on everything else, Christmas if I am feeling brave. :elkgrin:

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Thanks Baja...

....and I'm sorry you had that experience here in San Diego. I KNOW in Arizona they would NOT treat you like that!;)

Your post above proves that this is a problem of unkown proportions!

I DO have a NEW Water Pump.

It looks like Mr. Sucky's rebuild shop put in a 50/50 pre mix green coolant and did the last 50% as water. So it is a very light pale green.....proving that he is tighter than me!....LOL I've never seen such a thing!

I did call Poway Toyota parts dept. today. They told me the Toyota Red coolant just has a die in it so they know it's Toyota Coolant. But this is NOT what I have read before, such as what you have noted above!

So much confusion.....

So I asked him.....OK.....can you tell me if in 1988 did Toyota have the RED coolant and use it in my 3.0 engine. He checked with service and they said no, they did NOT have Toyota RED Coolant back in 1988.

BUT!......I asked Mr. Sucky what year my new reman. long block engine is from and he said he thinks from a 1994! (by they way....this is what I told Mr. Sucky to use back in Oct. rather than another 1988 possible "green block" with well placed/hidden oil galley crack from the factory! So if he would have listened to me....he would not had to have done my engine twice!)

OK!......are we confuzzelled enough yet!.....LOL

See what I mean>?!:confused: :( :confused: :( :eek: :smilies27 :orngartis



....and just to make this clear!......I prefer Shreaded Beef Tostadas, with salsa fresca!!!! YUMMERS!:sunflower ....I don't care what time of year it is!:chowtime:

[BajaTaco]

Thanks Baja...

....and I'm sorry you had that experience here in San Diego. I KNOW in Arizona they would NOT treat you like that!;)

Actually, the work in San Diego was done under Toyota factory warranty, and I drove the truck home to AZ before I noticed the (now purple-ish brown) coolant, so I took it to the dealer where I bought my truck for their help in resolving the matter. And they treated me like crap. Long story...



I did call Poway Toyota parts dept. today. They told me the Toyota Red coolant just has a die in it so they know it's Toyota Coolant.

That is a load of BS. I would call back and speak to the General Manager. He should be made aware that his parts guy is spewing crap to his customers, just on the chance that he may not be aware of it. But my guess is that the parts guy said that because they probably buy standard green coolant in bulk to use for their service, since it is much cheaper to buy. I really wish Toyota USA would regulate this kind of crap because it would save a lot of problems.

The first thing you should do is find out exactly what kind of coolant Mr. Sucky put into your system. There are brands of coolants that are long-life, low silicate formulas that are green, so you should check to see what exactly you are dealing with. The coolant product will have the recommended water/coolant mixture (so don't be upset that water was used - just hopefully the right amount). Regarding your particular engine and pump - unfortunately, it might be hard to find out what coolant was originally intended to be used with it. But suffice it to say, I think you will be better off using the red Toyota coolant regardless. Try calling Toyota customer care and see if they can give you a straight answer.

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Prestone claims their new formula is compatable with ANY color coolant.

Look at what Prestone says. (http://www.prestone.com/products/antifreezeCoolant.php#antifreezeCoolant0)

So.....does this mean we can trust what Prestone says, and use it?

I am NOT a Prestone lover!.....just adding to the discussion.
.
.

Oh thanks...Baja.....I just now saw your post above.

I will call Toyota Customer Care.....thanks!

I know Mr. Sucky had to put water in......but the color looks so pale like he used a 50/50 coolant Pre Mix and then added water.....get what I mean? Wouldn't this ratio only give me a 25% coolant ratio? He uses some off brand white bottle of coolant from a nearby no name parts shop.

[BajaTaco]

As I said above, there are some green coolants that may be silicate/borate free, extended life, ok for aluminum, etc. so best to check on whatever green you are using or plan to use. The Prestone stuff is probably fine but the website doesn't give any details as to what is in it.

See what Toyota says on the phone and let us know.

[Scenic WonderRunner]

OK.....

I called toyota customer care....see contact info below.

I asked all the right questions. She came back after checking with the technical guys and told me that the only coolant they can recommend is the Toyota Red coolant.

I explained to her that I just looked up in my 1988 Toyota factory service manual and it says to use any good brand of ethyl~glycol coolant.

So she looked up online the Toyota service manual for the 3vz and the 5vz engines at my request.

They both said to use a good quality ethyl glycol based coolant and make NO mention of demanding to only use Toyota long life Red coolant.

So......me thinks even Toyota can't answer this question!


If I switch to Toyota Red......It will be $65 bucks to flush out Mr. Suckys green coolant. Plus two bottles of Toyota red at $18.95 from Poway Toyota (oh!...and it's ON SALE!......LOL) ....because I need just over one bottle to make it 50/50 with my 2 1/2 gallon coolant capacity.

So that's over $100 bucks already!......but I have a new engine!:(


...now I'm hungry for a Tostada!......that was hard work!



Toyota Customer Care
Phone: 800-331-4331
Mon - Fri, 5:00 am - 6:00 pm PT
Sat, 7:00 am - 4:00 pm PT
Fax: 310-468-7814

Or send correspondence to:
Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
19001 South Western Ave.
Dept. WC11
Torrance, CA 90501

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Some info from the Wiki!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifreeze_(coolant)

Ethylene glycol solutions became available in 1937 and were marketed as "permanent antifreeze", since their higher boiling points provided advantages for summertime use as well as during cold weather. They are still used today. Ethylene glycol antifreezes are poisonous and should be kept away from any person or animal (children and especially dogs) that might be tempted by its taste. They form calcium oxalate crystals in the kidneys and can cause acute renal failure and death. All spills should be cleaned, or else an area in which it may be present should be kept inaccessible to those who might ingest it. Should ingestion of antifreeze occur, ethanol can be administered until proper treatment can be started in order to slow the conversion of methanol to formaldehyde and formic acid which are the substances responsible for methanol's toxicity.

For this reason bittering agent (denatonium benzoate - trade name Bitrex) is usually added to engine coolant to make it taste unpleasant. In the United States, there is legislation before Congress (H.R.2567/S.1110) that would make the use of a bittering agent mandatory.

Propylene glycol, on the other hand, is considerably less toxic and may be labelled as "non-toxic antifreeze". It is used as antifreeze where ethylene glycol would be inappropriate, such as in food-processing systems or in pipes in homes, as well as numerous other settings. It is also used in food, medicines, and cosmetics, often as a binding agent. Propylene glycol is "generally recognized as safe" by the FDA for use in food. However, it should not be thought that propylene glycol based antifreeze is safe for consumption. In the event of accidental exposure emergency medical services should be contacted.

Most commercial antifreeze formulations include corrosion inhibiting compounds, and a colored dye (commonly a green, red or blue fluorescent) to aid in identification. A 1:1 dilution with water is usually used, resulting in a freezing point of approximately -40°F (-40°C). In warmer areas weaker dilutions are used.

Glycol antifreeze solutions should generally be replaced with fresh mixture every two years. Many modern cars now come filled with organic acid technology (OAT) antifreeze, which has an extended service life of five years. OAT solutions are not compatible with glycol and, if changing from one type to the other, the cooling system must be thoroughly flushed with clean water. Typically OAT antifreeze contains a red or pink dye to differentiate it from glycol (blue or green).
If ingested, the antidote for antifreeze is usually ethanol or fomepizole.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifreeze_%28engine%29"

[david despain]

ok so i dont have a toyota but here is some thoughts on the matter. first off if you are worried about the strenght of the mixture the simple solution is to get a hydrometer and check it. you can pick up a cheap one at any parts house (napa, checker etc) http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=16347&group_ID=1507&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog wow i didnt even realize that it would be so cheap from snap on. ifin it were me id get that one. then its not even a matter of question if you are protected, read the gauge and you know. second point, if mr. sucky recomends you change coolant pretty soon anyway and i take it you live in socal somewhere, so it doesnt matter if its just straight water in there you arent in any real danger of freezing in the next 6 months or so. straight distilled water will cool the engine better anyway than antifreeze and with some water wetter or similar product you would be more than protected from overheating. then in the fall or when ever is convienent flush and drain and fill the system with all new antifreeze in the proper color and ratio as you deem fit. did u get a new rad cap and thermostat with all this new eng work? i think that would be the more important question than the strength of the mixture. also i dont know about the law there but on the prestone jug of antifreeze i have it tells you to obey local laws but if its legal then just to dispose of it in a sanitary sewer ie toliet kitchen sick etc, just not the storm drain. so no need to pay lots of extra $$ to someone just to use their machine. just a few thoughts. in my oipinion as long as u use coolant thats safe for aluminum and DISTILLED WATER and change it every two years or so you will be fine, of course that advice is worth as much as you paid for it. i think baja taco is right on with his "they buy in bulk drums the green stuff" idea. so if you change it to what you want then you will know for sure its fresh, mixed right, the correct type.

[Grouseman]

Scenic,

At present changing out my red for green antifreeze. Go on MUD and search threads. Most say there that the red does more harm than the green on the radiators and other parts. ROBBIE AND GUMBY are experts on 80 series Cruisers and they both say Green. You may have a Runner, I would still check out the threads from the experts there.

Gman

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Scenic,

At present changing out my red for green antifreeze. Go on MUD and search threads. Most say there that the red does more harm than the green on the radiators and other parts. ROBBIE AND GUMBY are experts on 80 series Cruisers and they both say Green. You may have a Runner, I would still check out the threads from the experts there.

Gman

Thanks Gman...

Is there any way you can give us a link to the best thread you found about coolant over at Mud? I've been searching but have not found it yet.

Thanks!


OH!....and Thanks David....for your input!


I included a link to some pics of my engine with Downey Headers (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/totallytropical1/album?.dir=/6d66&.src=ph)at the first post.

You can also see my 25mm Sway~A~Way torsion bars........A~Arm welded on support bar........exhaust crossover.

Not sure if I really want to start an SWR truck thread because my truck really isn't all that tricked out. But here are some pics anyway.

[Scenic WonderRunner]

This is not about red or green......

....but!

I was outside this morning checking over my truck....and guess what!?!!

Someone at Mr. Sucky's shop STOLE my license plate registration MONTH Sticker!!!!!!!!!!

Now I have to go stand in line at the DMV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes: :smilies27 :ar15:
.
.

I think I'm lucky to have my truck back at all!

[david despain]

was the sticker red or green? :jump:

[flyingwil]

I know absolutely nothing about this but am interested in the final outcome... Mark What did you decide to do?

[Grouseman]

[QUOTE=Scenic WonderRunner]Thanks Gman...

Is there any way you can give us a link to the best thread you found about coolant over at Mud? I've been searching but have not found it yet.

Thanks!

Scenic,

Man I looked myself over on MUD and couldn't find the thread. There has much talk about green or red in alot of related threads. They start out as something else and go into the debate. Sorry I couldn't find a direct thread on the subject. I have been watching over there for probably 6 months before I decided to change over. Robbie is Toy Nut and he recommends it. From the majority of knowledgeable guys there he is the leading expert on tech stuff for Toys on that site. Hope that helps some.

Gman

[DaveInDenver]

I personally use Toyota Red. I understood that it's an OAT with phosphates added. The phosphate serves the same purpose as the silicate in aftermarket stuff, to prevent dissilimiar metal corrosion. I've also heard that Toyota Red does not have 2-ethylhexanoic acid (2-EHA) in it, which most aftermarket OAT antifreezes do. Honda for one explicitly says not to use 2-EHA at all, while I don't think Toyota takes a stand other than not using it in their formula (which I guess means something afterall).

If you use regular green ethylene glycol, then all of that does not matter and things are different. You'd still need the silicate, but 2-EHA, OAT, etc. is all meaningless. The main thing is to NOT mix ethylene glycol and OAT antifreezes, that is bad. Otherwise, it's probably spliting hairs really.

The best argument that I can come up with is that Toyota is generally held up as the standard for longevity in their products. Why is that? The end result is the sum of the individual components, which includes using good coolant and lubes. All I can do is assume that what Toyota specifies and sells would be the correct fluid. That's despite what the dealers (who are not owned by Toyota) might do in their shops. In fact, if Toyota is paying them a price based on the red stuff and they (or any mechanic really) use generic green, they do it to make more money. That is not a real indicator of what we should do necessarily.

[david despain]

just curious how much is the toyoata red stuff at the dealership?.

[Scenic WonderRunner]

just curious how much is the toyoata red stuff at the dealership?.

Thanks for all the input guys.....keep it coming!

David D. .....my local dealer wants $18.95 for the red and they claim thats the sale price. Normally $22.99 or something.

I've been over in Arizona for a week due to the passing of my God Father......so I have not had time to drive my truck. So it still has only 40 miles on the new engine.

I still have not decided what to do, Wil. I'm leaning toward just staying with the green. For one, so I don't have to worry about messing things up by trying to switch over to Red and possibly causing the brown gunk problem, etc.

But I do like the comment above which states....."it's like splitting hairs". I tend to agree with that statement. ...and since the Toyota Red was not even available when my truck was new, why should it be an issue.....unless it's such a good improvement over the old green that one must upgrade....or else!

But this NEW Long Life Green is a new and upgraded formula......so does this change the green argument some?

I went to my local Wally World and they have Green long life 5 year/150,000 mile coolant. They have it in Prestone.....Havoline....and Wal Mart Super Tech generic which is probably made by Prestone anyway. But then I saw the bottles of "Dex (red) Coolant" which makes this whole thing even more confusing.

Anyway.....

I will be happy with 150,000+ miles out of my engine (I would rather see 300,000 miles!):elkgrin: ......and when this engine is done, maybe by then I can put a diesel in.....and then the coolant question will come up once again!:rolleyes:

[Scenic WonderRunner]

OK.....

I decided to with Green Long Life for now. It's the new formula with 5yr./150,000 rating. I'm using it because green was put in by Mr. Sucky....(well....more like puke yellow!!!).....and it's just easier to get done right now. Also.....my 1988 Toyota Factory Service Manual says to use the green....as they did not have the Toyota Red back in 1988.

Does anyone think I should use a bottle of radiator flush since there was once oil in the system....even though it's a new engine? Also....I flushed and let the engine warm up and I could not get the heater to blow hot.

Could left over oil in the system have plugged up the heater core somehow.....and if so.....would the radiator flush help clear the heater core out?

I took some pics.....I'll load them up in a few min.

In the pics.....I was testing different settings on my camera....and I am also showing my extended axle breathers.

Have you ever seen coolant this color>?!!! It looks like some dude had a bad night at a Frat Party!!!!!


PICS (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/totallytropical1/album?.dir=/4458re2) ......of.....a TotallyTropical 4Runner......Radiator Flush.....and axle Breather extensions.......





http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i156/ScenicWonderRunner/2006_0428RadiatorFlush0017.jpg

[Scenic WonderRunner]

The good news is!.........

I had an appointment today at the CA. DMV to get a new month sticker that Mr. Sucky stole from my rear license plate!........and to get a temp reg. paper for my back window because there is no point in taking my sucky engine into a "test only" smog station....since it's very clear that Mr. Sucky messed up my entire engine!!!!!!!!!!!!

I got both things done really quick today! I like this new appoinment only DMV office thingy! I've never had a more pleasant experience in my life at a DMV office!!!!!!!!!! There were like...3 people there waiting their turn!...very kewl music playing!...all I could say was....WOW!........ CA. DMV is now the 2nd happiest place on earth! .....LOL

The lady looked at me kindly when I told her Mr. Sucky stole my April Sticker!.....She said....."Don't worry, I believe you"....! She didn't have to go out to my truck to prove my sticker was missing!

The CA. B.A.R. is beginning their investigation into Mr. Sucky's activities!!!!!!.....:D

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Update on the "WonderRunner"..........

The CA. B.A.R. has completed their investigation of my new engine problems.

Conclusion: ......Mr. Sucky's Pretend Engine Rebuild Shop blew it again!

In fact...they found out that in Jan. '06 his license to be an engine repair shop had expired!

The probs:

Oil leaks everywhere.

Excessive Loud Noise coming from drivers side valve train.

Melted Tranny Kick Down Cable laid on header by Mr. Sucky! (cost $350 to replace, including engine diagnostic!)

Loud whining timing belt tensioners.

Extreamely LOW POWER ....like no compression (or like I've been defrauded with a 300,000 mile used engine painted real shiny!)

The B.A.R. contacted me yesterday and they told me the good news is that Mr. Sucky will fix the engine under warranty at no cost to me. The bad news is, Mr. Sucky will fix the engine under warranty at no cost to me!

Do I even dare take my truck back there again?

I could take it somewhere else for a whole new engine, out of my pocket and sue Mr. Sucky. But when the B.A.R. demanded payment for the license, Mr. Sucky said he had no checking account....so he handed the BAR inspector $250 cash! So even if I take him to small claims court....how do I get paid back?


I've NEVER been treated like this in 36 years of driving!!!!!.....so I have no experience in these kind of problems.

What would you do?



......thanks for reading!
.
.

She is just too nice to give up on!

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i156/ScenicWonderRunner/2006_0509BlackCanyonTestDrive0015.jpg

[BajaTaco]

I would tell the CA B.A.R. that Mr. Sucky has already had TWO opportunities to perform his work that you have already paid for IN FULL. And that by now, it is preposterous for them to expect you to allow Mr. Sucky to even touch your truck again, after PROVING that he is obviously irresponsible, unprofessional, and INCOMPETENT. What if mister sucky was a surgeon? Would they expect you to go back and let him cut you open again - at "no charge"?? I think not. The CA B.A.R. should be doing whatever it takes to assist you in getting the legal process going to award you a monetary refund and/or compensation for the incompetent work that Mr. Sucky has done. He needs to own up to his errors and be responsible for them - by refunding your money. If he is flat broke, then he should arrange to make scheduled payments to you, or his future wages/income should be garnished until he satisfies the debt.

My .02

[datrupr]

I would tell the CA B.A.R. that Mr. Sucky has already had TWO opportunities to perform his work that you have already paid for IN FULL. And that by now, it is preposterous for them to expect you to allow Mr. Sucky to even touch your truck again, after PROVING that he is obviously irresponsible, unprofessional, and INCOMPETENT. What if mister sucky was a surgeon? Would they expect you to go back and let him cut you open again - at "no charge"?? I think not. The CA B.A.R. should be doing whatever it takes to assist you in getting the legal process going to award you a monetary refund and/or compensation for the incompetent work that Mr. Sucky has done. He needs to own up to his errors and be responsible for them - by refunding your money. If he is flat broke, then he should arrange to make scheduled payments to you, or his future wages/income should be garnished until he satisfies the debt.

My .02


Yeah!!!!!! What he said!

[david despain]

there has to be a point where enough is enough and you just have to cut your losses and run. sounds like you might be there. i dont know what the money situation is with mr sucky but you may be better off in the long run to find a different solution to the problem and chalk it up to a lesson learned the hard way. at least then you would have the truck up and running again. i know nobody wants to admit defeat and give the bad guy the satisfaction but i know i couldnt be this long with out the transportation. if you could get anything at all as far as a setlement either from mr sucky or the ca b.a.r. i would take what ever it was and never look back. it sure does suck though

[datrupr]

The biggest problem I see with taking it back to Mr. Sucky is will it be done correctly this time? And don't forget the fact. Mark, that last time he had it for warrenty repair, it took him what? Six weeks? And for not even getting it fixed? I think it is even more f@#*ed up now than it was when you first brought it too him. For that kinda $$ I would be pissed also, but I would talk to CA B.A.R. to see if there is not something that they can do to refund your $$ and then take it somewhere else that can do the job properly. Now, I am no mechanic by any means, but I think even I could rebuild an engine to work properly after 2 tries and 2 months. I would express great dissatisfaction with the CA B.A.R. about thier decision. They should not have renewed this guys license to begin with, and they should make him refund your $$ in whole and let you take your business elsewhere. Man, I am getting angry just typing this.


Sorry, just a little passionate about your situation buddy. I hate it when I get hosed by someone who claims to be a "professional" and when other people do too.

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Thanks......

Chris.....Aaron.....David!.....thanks for sharing your thoughts!

The history on the WonderRunner is......

I bought it about 3 years ago, from a car dealer in New Jersey. I was told it needed new head gaskets. I always wanted a 4Runner like this.....so I felt I could deal with the head gasket issue with a truck that had only 52,000 original miles. Rather than buying an old 4Runner here in San Diego with 200K plus miles!

I took delivery via rail car in Riverside about 3 Years Ago. I GOT THE HEADGASKETS DONE $800 + Other Parts Replaced....TOTALLING ABOUT $1,400.

This was a Bum Headgasket job (I felt it had a cracked block!). A defective head was put back on my engine......which ment I needed an engine rebuild last Oct. 2005 because of still getting oil in the water!

Mr. Sucky did a terrible job...and even broke my Overdrive. This even made me miss the first ever Expedition Portal Rally!!!!!!!! I took the truck to him in Oct. 2005 and did not get it back until late Dec. 2005. But I STILL had OIL in the WATER! After paying $2,285 CASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! with a 2 year/ 24K warranty.

So now it's Feb. 2006.

I take the truck back to Mr. Sucky for a warranty repair to fix the oil in water.

......and here I sit today with a sucky engine.....rebuilt by Mr. Sucky......with ALL the problems mentioned in the above post!

For all the Love that goes around this board for Toyota's................I'm sure having a really hard time agreeing! But when I open my door of my 4Runner and it still smells new.....I know that somehow I need to save her!!!!!

Keep the comments coming.....because I REALLY need HELP!!!!!!!

~Thanks.........Mark

[datrupr]

Keep the 4-Runner Mark, just get it fixed. Preferably by someone other than Mr. Sucky. That year 3.0 is well know for head issues, but they can be fixed. And with only 52K it is an awesome truck. Get it fixed, and get out here to do a trail run cause I wanna chack it out in person!

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Thanks so much Aaron!

I enjoy this board soooo much!

I was sooo upset that I missed the rally.......and the night time creek crossing with AL and Brian!......LOL

I really am a true 4x4....explorer lover!....Please believe me! LOL

When the WonderRunner is fixed....I will be sure to meet up with you AZ. folks!

In fact.....I'm hoping to do a long summer trip (about 5 to 6 weeks) at the 2nd half of summer.....and head for AZ. NM. CO. WY. UT. .....and back home to San Diego. If my truck ever gets fixed...I wanted to post up info on the trip I want to do....and maybe find a buddy or two or more to tag along!



Keep the 4-Runner Mark, just get it fixed. Preferably by someone other than Mr. Sucky. That year 3.0 is well know for head issues, but they can be fixed. And with only 52K it is an awesome truck. Get it fixed, and get out here to do a trail run cause I wanna chack it out in person!

[Scenic WonderRunner]

I feel I owe all my buddies that helped give their input on what to do about my engine.......an update.

I finally picked up the "SWR" from Mr. Sucky's shop Yesterday!.....YES!

Yes......um....I said Mr. Sucky's shop!

But wait there is a good explaination....and please don't call me an idiot just yet!

After my most recent round of engine probs.....I contacted the B.A.R. again. They assured me they would be involved in the most recent warranty repairs and make sure Mr. Sucky did it right this time.

It's either give Mr. Sucky one more chance.......or I could have taken it to another shop. But that would have been $3,000+ for a new rebuild and then I would have to sue Mr. Sucky to get my money back.........and I HATE Court and all it's dealing. So I chose to take the kinder/gentler approach.

A few weeks ago on a phone call with Mr. Sucky asking for an update. He went into his usual yelling and swearing and threatening to put a junk engine in my truck and a refund just to get rid of me. I made it clear that I will make sure this will cost him FAR MORE than just a refund.....I told him I even have pictures for the judge to prove your sucky work!.......he suddenly had a change of heart.

I took the truck back to the sucky shop on JUNE 8th......!!!!!!!!

I finally just picked it up yesterday!

All seems well so far on the 40 mile drive home.

I even got a brand new Power Steering Pump complete because it looks they they smashed mine somehow!......lol

I spoke with the shop foreman who seems very kind and honest (mr. sucky has been nowhere to be found for the last three weeks and we think he has escaped to Mexico!...hehe)

The foreman told me that the VERY LOW POWER problem was that the cam shafts were cut wrong and this was causing the valves to open and close at the wrong moment in time.

They claim they also fixed all oil leaks and other issues

At least they admitted their mistake.....or the mistake of the place they had ordered the cams from.

It appears to me that Mr. Sucky's problem is that he continues to have to spend a $1.00 Dollar to save a nickel.....! and he keeps doing this over and over using very poor judgement.

I chose this shop in the first place because they seemed to have a fair price with a two year warranty and they do everything in house including R&R of the engine.......and the Foreman whom I first meet seemed honest, fair and knowledgeable.

It seems that it's the Owner who is the REAL problem!

This has been a 9 month ORDEAL......!

Anyway.............

It's A~L~I~V~E......................!!!!!!!:arabia:

[bigreen505]

It's A~L~I~V~E......................!!!!!!!:arabia:

Can I get hallelujah from the choir? Our brother's truck is healed! Praise the lord!

[articulate]

This is good news. I don't know what I would do if I couldn't find a way to get out there in the wild where my heart gets happy again. Walk, crawl, hitchhike maybe.

Here's to wonder and runnin'. :beer:

Mark