ARB | Toyota elocker?

[pskhaat]

Yeah, which one would you do? I am finally planning on locking the rear of my 80. Yes, my 80 is unlocked, in fact other than my `new' UZJ100, I have never owned a locked 4WD and I've previously owned two FJ40s, one FJ55, one FJ60, & an FZJ80, and I have done my share of serious wheeling without lockers and I think I'm a better driver for it. But I'm going to step it up a notch now.

When I create software systems at work I stay homogeneous in all respects. When working on a Toyota I stay all Toyota. But for this, can someone tell me why I wouldn't want to ARB? I can't come up with a reason to not add ARB lockers to my 80 instead of the factory elocker.

Help?

[Mike S]

You already have a battery and wiring, but prolly don't have a compressor and air lines. So that is one reason. I believe that cost on the factory unit might be less by the time you are done with installation.

M:xxrotflma

[Desertdude]

I have ARB's front and rear installed in the 80 - they are fast locking and work smooth- I had Slee do the install while re-gearing to 4:88's I sent the diffs up to his shop while we worked on maintenance - I used the OEM switch to activate the Lockers and will also ( when I have a moment) use the locker lights in the dash to let me know they are on - lockers rule when you know when to use them ;)

Btw . Boston Mangler has a great write up on installing OEM on a non locked 80

[AndrewP]

I have ARB's front and rear installed in the 80 - they are fast locking.....

And a real good thing for DD too. We watched the new ('06) DV video for the first time on Saturday, and you were so close to a huge problem on Rover Death Drop...:jump:

[Boston Mangler]

I can't come up with a reason to not add ARB lockers to my 80 instead of the factory elocker.
Help?

Price! :D

This was all done for under $600: http://www.yankeetoys.org/mangler/elockerinstall.htm

As you will see in my writeup it is a fairly involved install, but it wasnt that bad. If i can do it, anyone can! :victory: The front is a lot easier and that will be installed shortly when the locked housing (got in free in a trade with a non locked housing for ARB install) arrives!

Complete electric locking 3rd members can be bought from the dealer for under $800 brand new ready to bolt in!

I have heard rumors they are available in different ratios, but havent been able to confirm it! :D

Only reason i would shy away from the e-locker retrofit is because of the ECU and some of the wiring. These parts are insanely expensive to buy new and i had to source all of them used from various people. It was quite a task! :D Some of the wiring was there but most was not.

If you have any other question on the install shoot me a PM!

[Desertdude]

And a real good thing for DD too. We watched the new ('06) DV video for the first time on Saturday, and you were so close to a huge problem on Rover Death Drop...



Trying desperately to recreate history :gunt: I also come from the school of no lockers - you must remember after the install to actually use them.

Thanks for shouting turn on the lockers ...the front one too! :victory:

[BajaTaco]

I think you need to weigh the options based on money and convenience. As far the durability goes, I imagine in the end they will be comparable, with both types being highly reliable. With the ARB, the weak link will be in the air supply. With the e-locker, obviously the weak link will be in the elec. supply (i.e. actuator and ECU). I think the ARB will be the most convenient to procure and install, but will likely cost more.

[Boston Mangler]

I think you need to weigh the options based on money and convenience. As far the durability goes, I imagine in the end they will be comparable, with both types being highly reliable. With the ARB, the weak link will be in the air supply. With the e-locker, obviously the weak link will be in the elec. supply (i.e. actuator and ECU). I think the ARB will be the most convenient to procure and install, but will likely cost more.

What he said! :D

Well put Chris!

[cruiseroutfit]

I think you need to weigh the options based on money and convenience. As far the durability goes, I imagine in the end they will be comparable, with both types being highly reliable. With the ARB, the weak link will be in the air supply. With the e-locker, obviously the weak link will be in the elec. supply (i.e. actuator and ECU). I think the ARB will be the most convenient to procure and install, but will likely cost more.

Agreed, don't forget the "broken axle factor" in an 80 rear FF. In some cases an axle failure with the Toyota E-Locker, can cause MAJOR problems with your axle. The broken peice will get "stuck" into the locker, so you can't replace the shaft, and you can't remove the 3rd to get rid of the broken parts. Very complicated fix (surgery on the housing) and expensive too. Due to the design of the ARB (non sliding fork) this can't happen. Not the most common break, but fairly common amongst heavily wheeled 80's.

Another option to toss out there is OEM Toyota cable lockers, not for everyone, but for some. Eliminates both air supply failures (which are almost always user induced) and electric failures (usually expensive solenoids on the OE lockers)

[Boston Mangler]

Another option to toss out there is OEM Toyota cable lockers, not for everyone, but for some.

NOTE: The cable OEM lockers are the exact same, internally as the e-lockers, just activated differently. Meaning, you might have the same issues if you break a shaft!

[cruiseroutfit]

NOTE: The cable OEM lockers are the exact same, internally as the e-lockers, just activated differently. Meaning, you might have the same issues if you break a shaft!

Right, I forgot to add that... The true OE cable lockers are a bit different than the converted ones, but they have the same caveat with the broken shaft. Darrell (the PO of Cruiser Outfitters) runs the OEM cable lockers F&R in his HJ45 troopy, with custom cables right to the gearshifter, makes me want to swap my ARB's out. Reliable as can be, but I have never had an unwaranted (meaning something I didn't deserve) issue with my ARB's, nor the hundreds we have sold, all can be extremely reliable with proper install and maintainance.

I'de run whatever you get the best deal on. A ARB setup is going to set you back a minimum of $1000 for a single axle (add $800 for second axle) by the time you absorb the compressor cost and R&P setup. Whereas a OEM E-locker is ready to drop in (mabey), no need to set up the R&P with a carrier swap.

[pskhaat]

How does one convert to cable lockers?

[AndrewP]

Yes-ARBs with a good install are excellent. I have them on 2 trucks and could not be happier with the way they work. Locking differentials are expensive if your truck did not come with them from the factory. It's just the nature of the beast.

I would consider swapping in a complete locking axle, but no way I would try to retrofit a locking diff in a non-locking axle housing. Obviously it can be done, but what's the point? Either way you are going to part with some $$.

[cruiseroutfit]

How does one convert to cable lockers?

Downey makes a kit to convert the OEM Toyota E-lockers to cable actuated, I know guys have made their own setups to. The OEM Toyota cable ones come ready :D

[Desertdude]

Kev- When it was all said and done how much $$ and how much time to complete your OEM retro fit?

Only looking to compare the cost of my ARB install :bowdown:

[Boston Mangler]

Kev- When it was all said and done how much $$ and how much time to complete your OEM retro fit?

Well, not that my install could be compared to most, but here is the breakdown:

NEW Rear E-Locker In The Box = FREE, traded to a friend for a years use of my storage unit.

-Used Long Spline Shaft $65 (ended up selling the stock for $65 so basically it was free!) :D
-Dash Rotarty Knob $45
-Diff Gasket $15
-Misc Studs (longer for the locker 3rd) $15
-Dash Bulbs $10
-Entire wiring harness from headlight to taillight of a rolled locked 95 FZJ80 $200
-Locker ECU was included with harness deal
-Modified REAR Housing = FREE (done by me)
-FRONT E-Locker Housing, Even Traded for a non locked one that i had sitting in the garage (intended on modifying for elocker) that i paid $100 because someone needed it for the ARB install.
-Front Elocker (will be bought new for $800)

That includes just about everysingle piece for the job and i will be sitting at about: $1185 +/- for the complete OEM setup if you are a cheap (or better term: Resourceful) person. Of course factor in another $800 if you buy the rear locker new, so you are at around $2000 if you willing to search for the rest of the parts.

One of the big reasons i went this route is because that body harness/locker ECU kind of fell in my lap so that simplified the project quite a bit and kept the costs way down. Not sure if you know, but a huge portion of the wiring is already in the non e-locker rigs. Most of it was plug and play!

Attempting to do this mod using all NEW oem parts would be insane. I believe the chunk of wiring running from the rear locker to the front ECU is over $800 or something crazy like that. I am sure all of these "Looms" can be homemade for much cheaper, but i wanted the OEM fit and reliability!

Although, now that this mod is gaining popularity, there are companies making kits to install these now, havent really looked into it though.

Any questions feel free!

:D

[Desertdude]

Thanks for the breakdown - if I had the time when I had the axles all apart I may have gone for the electric retro fit - Time will tell how well the ARB products hold up -you hear many stories about leakage some of those are stories from the past that still seem to linger...

Here is a simple ARB locker cost breakdown YMMV

ARB lockers frt rear $850.00 X 2 = $1700.00

ARB Compact Air Locker compressor $160.00

Slee offroad ARB Compressor Mount $42.00

Slee offroad Air Manifold $45.00

OEM locker selector switch $45.00

Approx. Sub Total $1992.00 + tax + shipping

There are shops that if you re-gear and purchase all the parts they will install the ARB lockers for free ( so to speak) once you have the diff's in hand -- the complete install takes about day including electrical I would say all and all about $2300.00

[Boston Mangler]

ARB lockers frt rear $850.00 X 2 = $1700.00


Cool, are those ARB prices for complete geared and ready to go thirds? If so, that is a great deal!


Time will tell how well the ARB products hold up -you hear many stories about leakage some of those are stories from the past that still seem to linger...

It is all in the install! 9 failures out of 10 are due to poor installs! Just make sure you carry a spare solenoid when its dusty, they are cheap and spares are easier then trying to rebuild it on the trail, been there, done that! :D

All and all the prices seem comparable for either setup. I guess its a matter of preference!

Both are better then open!

:D

[Desertdude]

Cool, are those ARB prices for complete geared and ready to go thirds? If so, that is a great deal!


ARB Lockers only - regearing is another whole pile of $$ :smileeek:

[Boston Mangler]

ARB Lockers only - regearing is another whole pile of $$ :smileeek:

Gotcha!

I am looking into these "Rumors" of the Factory Locking Thirds being available with 4.10, 4.56, & 4,88 ratios, if so that would be way cool! I will post when i find out for sure. Some people say they can be had and some says its impossible. I need to buy my front e-locker new, so this gives me motivation to research it more and possibly regear! Details soon!

[Desertdude]

so not the build your own third member at Inchworm (http://www.inchwormgear.com/store/index.php?cPath=25) I take it ?

As always I look forward to your research :bowdown:

[Boston Mangler]

so not the build your own third member at Inchworm (http://www.inchwormgear.com/store/index.php?cPath=25) I take it ?

No, OEM all the way! :D


As always I look forward to your research :bowdown:

There will be much more to come! :)

[pskhaat]

The OEM Toyota cable ones come ready :D

Kurt, can you actually obtain a rear FF cable locking 3rd? Where does one obtain a cable lever for retrofit? Were they standard in any 80? Where would one mount the cable lever?

So intrigued...

[pskhaat]

Details now? :) Wanna just sell me your rear locking 3rd? because you need to get one already setup with 4.88s!

[cruiseroutfit]

Kurt, can you actually obtain a rear FF cable locking 3rd? Where does one obtain a cable lever for retrofit? Were they standard in any 80? Where would one mount the cable lever?

So intrigued...


The actual 3rd member is (was) still available from Toyota just a couple years back (havn't check since). However it doesn't include any of the cable mechanism. We used to be able to get the cable setups fairly easily, but the last one we did turned out to be a major PITA. In all cases, we used the OEM actuator setup, but a custom locally made push/pull cable. The Cruiser guys (G&S, etc) should be able to track you down some OEM cable stuff, I know I have seen complete cable locked axles sell on their site.

Of course, this all adds up to a bit more than a $700 ARB Air Locker and $150 ARB Compressor ;)

[cruiseroutfit]

A few pics on subject :D
OEM E-lockers & OEM Cable Locker with custom cable & OEM Cable in-cab levers.