the ultimate Pan-American Expedition vehicle

[jlit]

Hello all,

My name is jeff, and 4 associates and I are putting together an expedition from the top of Alaska to the southernmost tip of Argentina. 2 guys will be riding bicycles, I will be filming a tv show, 2 others will be conducting research, and together we will be filming 3 documentaries along the way about the needs of humanity and the environment in Latin and South America. I'm here because we need the perfect expedition vehicle.

We need ample space for 3-4 people, film equipment, expedition gear, bikes, batteries, and 2 irish wolfhounds. As many of you know, the roads through South America will require rugged 4x4 capabilities. In addition, with the threat of armed radicals, theives, and corrupt policia, the vehicle needs to be armored.

Any advice and assistance is most appreciated. Thank you.

[Blair G]

Hello all,

My name is jeff, and 4 associates and I are putting together an expedition from the top of Alaska to the southernmost tip of Argentina. 2 guys will be riding bicycles, I will be filming a tv show, 2 others will be conducting research, and together we will be filming 3 documentaries along the way about the needs of humanity and the environment in Latin and South America. I'm here because we need the perfect expedition vehicle.

We need ample space for 3-4 people, film equipment, expedition gear, bikes, batteries, and 2 irish wolfhounds. As many of you know, the roads through South America will require rugged 4x4 capabilities. In addition, with the threat of armed radicals, theives, and corrupt policia, the vehicle needs to be armored.

Any advice and assistance is most appreciated. Thank you.

Por supuesto.... it will be have to be armored.

[Plainsmuse]

Hello all,

My name is jeff, and 4 associates and I are putting together an expedition from the top of Alaska to the southernmost tip of Argentina. 2 guys will be riding bicycles, I will be filming a tv show, 2 others will be conducting research, and together we will be filming 3 documentaries along the way about the needs of humanity and the environment in Latin and South America. I'm here because we need the perfect expedition vehicle.

We need ample space for 3-4 people, film equipment, expedition gear, bikes, batteries, and 2 irish wolfhounds. As many of you know, the roads through South America will require rugged 4x4 capabilities. In addition, with the threat of armed radicals, theives, and corrupt policia, the vehicle needs to be armored.

Any advice and assistance is most appreciated. Thank you.
Dude, check out http://www.feralgreen.com/feralblog/?p=31
It's in country, you won't have to ship it or pay import duties. As for armor, read their blog and glean a little. If you're serious about armoring, you'd be better off with an APC. Trailer the Wolfhounds.

[Lynn]

Trailer the Wolfhounds.

Shoot, pull a trailer with the wolfhounds.

[jlit]

wow. thank you guys for the replies. unfortunately right now I'm heading out shooting for the weekend, but I'll be back in communication on monday. Thank you guys very much, and have a good weekend.

[mauricio_28]

For reasons too numerous to list, a turbo diesel engine is what you want.

[Trogdor]

Just get an older unimog :REExeSwimmingHL:

[Martinjmpr]

I'm with you on everything except the armor.

If you truly believe you need an armored vehicle maybe you'd better rethink the whole trip. I drove plenty of armored vehicles in the service but none of them would make a good expo vehicle.

[viter]

A couple questions that might help others give you better advice:

1. Do you want to sleep inside vehicles or in tents (either mounted on top of vehicle or on the ground)?

2. What is your budget for vehicle + modifications?

3. Are you planning to plan your route mainly on paved major highways or do you plan to seek out "fun" off-road tracks?

4. Are you experienced mechanics and if so on what vehicles?

traveling with dogs will probably add complexity to your border crossings, so I wouldn't bring them unless it was absolutely necessary.
cool head and knowing where not to go might be more usefull than armor.
check out this website - this guy just completed the trip you are talking about, mainly solo too - http://www.expeditionamericas.com/ there are others too if you have time to search

[jlit]

The expedition is going to be about 30 months from Alaska to Argentina. For most of which, we will likely be staying in tents, except through cities where it makes more sense to stay in a hotel with storage for the vehicle. We will be making this journey with guys on bicycles, so moving 25-50 miles a day on average. For route, we will be sticking mainly to highway 1, but certainly a bit of both main and side roads. Unfortunately, we have little/no vehicle repair experience, so we're looking for the most reliable and functional option. For this reason, as well as the fact that we're going to have a lot of equipment both film and expedition, a land rover or land cruiser is pretty much out of the question. We think it would be be better to stick with 1 newer vehicle that won't need a lot of repair work.

We're looking for something capable of handling rough roads. Both riders will be crossing the darien, so after we in the vehicle arrive in cartagena, we will travel west through columbia to meet them south of the gap. To my understanding, this area is made of unmaintained old logging roads that pose a challenge/threat with both security and road conditions.

[viter]

as far as reliable statistics say toyota would be best...

as far as brand new most-offroad worthy toyota available in US and best suited for transporting a bunch of cargo and a couple people I would say - tacoma (trd off-road option that includes lockable rear locker) ... the only bad part is that tacoma's are not sold in central and south america so parts might be a problem (but with airfreight these days the world is one small place relatively) and they run on gasoline, so cheaper and easier to find diesel fuel would not be an option; however, I still believe it might be your best choice.

I would also highly suggest taking 2 vehicles instead of one - they can share spare parts and if one get's stuck you have another one to pull it out. plus if one breaks down beyond repair you could always get to safety in one.

oh and I would also highly suggest learning at least basic repairs for the vehicle you choose or bringing me along to fix it ;) just kidding as I am not that great of a mechanic anyway...

there is a guy on this forum, Cell4Soul, who took a new style tacoma all the way to Panama and back, maybe he would chime in...

[viter]

plus with 2 vehicles you could have 2 roof-top tents which might be enough for 5 people - that would greatly reduce tent set-up time and would keep you away from the possibly wet/muddy/rocky ground and any animals crawling around.

maybe something similar to Cell4Soul's set-up - http://rides.webshots.com/album/555403102oBBSWD?start=36
http://rides.webshots.com/album/555403102oBBSWD?start=48

[Colorado Ron]

First things first.

Whats your budget?

[haven]

"...we will travel west through columbia..."

Please -- the name of the country in South America is Colombia.

Chip Haven

[LaOutbackTrail]

"...we will travel west through columbia..."

Please -- the name of the country in South America is Colombia.

Chip Haven

That bothers you too?

Seriously guys... do some research. I'm doing the trip from Louisiana to the Darien Gap by way of motorcycle in a month. Wow, a month... creeping closer.

If you guys are sticking to Hwy 1... you wont need much more than a standard 4x4 with upgraded suspension to handle your load.

Having touched the soils down there, it really wont make much of a difference in the setup of the vehicle, but get you some mud terrains and a nice winch.

If you don't do two vehicles, a good trailer with roof top tent on it and on the vehicle might be the way to go.

When are you guys going?

[jlit]

we will be departing from Alaska 2nd week of July, so time is starting to really run short. Also, big sorry for misspelling colombia, I realized that yesterday.

We've been heavily considering 2 land cruisers, but still debating between that or 1 larger vehicle. If we do take another vehicle, it means twice the costs of gas and repairs, and another person. It does give us safety in redundancy however, and I would assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that a pair is less likely to encounter a stick up. Alternatively, a unimog looks like it could be big, burly, and from what I hear, reliable. Unfortunately though, I can't find a good mog setup with seating for 5-6, and ample room in the back for storage, for any reasonable price. I looked into unicat, a company that outfits Amerigo International expedition vehicles, and a new setup (Though it would be the ultimate) would run about $700,000. Our goal with this whole mission is to raise awareness and build schools and orphanages, and 700,000 is more than I could justify, much less find sponsors to justify it as well.

Additionally, I'm also concerned something like that would gather too much attention. Some places we're going through, colombia for example, a big burly vehicle with a lot of money in camera and computer equipment, we've heard, could be very appealing to cartels.

If looking to blend in, I've heard busses are very popular down there. Perhaps a short 14 seat bus with the seats removed and a crappy paint job would help keep us under the radar a little more. Plus, when s*** hit's the fan, or when it's too sketchy to sleep outside (parts of Colombia, El Salvador, & Mexico) we could at least all be inside. Plus all our storage could be inside, instead of roof racks that call attention and aren't the most secure/weather proof.

What do you guys think? By the way, thanks.

[LaOutbackTrail]

The bus idea sounds like a winner.... what about 4wd? My only concern about that is it isnt uncommon for when the "sh*t hits the fan" the "bad guys" might stop the bus and you'll have a cluster fornication to deal with.

Maybe do some "Punisher" type armor over thr front windows and a couple "safe spots" within the bus incase of fire...

But if you are that concerned about the safety... dont go on the trip. :26_7_2:


we will be departing from Alaska 2nd week of July, so time is starting to really run short. Also, big sorry for misspelling colombia, I realized that yesterday.

We've been heavily considering 2 land cruisers, but still debating between that or 1 larger vehicle. If we do take another vehicle, it means twice the costs of gas and repairs, and another person. It does give us safety in redundancy however, and I would assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that a pair is less likely to encounter a stick up. Alternatively, a unimog looks like it could be big, burly, and from what I hear, reliable. Unfortunately though, I can't find a good mog setup with seating for 5-6, and ample room in the back for storage, for any reasonable price. I looked into unicat, a company that outfits Amerigo International expedition vehicles, and a new setup (Though it would be the ultimate) would run about $700,000. Our goal with this whole mission is to raise awareness and build schools and orphanages, and 700,000 is more than I could justify, much less find sponsors to justify it as well.

Additionally, I'm also concerned something like that would gather too much attention. Some places we're going through, colombia for example, a big burly vehicle with a lot of money in camera and computer equipment, we've heard, could be very appealing to cartels.

If looking to blend in, I've heard busses are very popular down there. Perhaps a short 14 seat bus with the seats removed and a crappy paint job would help keep us under the radar a little more. Plus, when s*** hit's the fan, or when it's too sketchy to sleep outside (parts of Colombia, El Salvador, & Mexico) we could at least all be inside. Plus all our storage could be inside, instead of roof racks that call attention and aren't the most secure/weather proof.

What do you guys think? By the way, thanks.

[jlit]

Ok, we're thinking pretty affirmatively of a compromise between all of the above. We're thinking of going with 2 vehicles for safety: 2 toyota 08 tundras, crew cab, short bed(because you can't get a longer bed with the crew cab), camper shell, and just fixing them up a little to work, ie, roof rack, bumpers, lifts, winches, aquatic setup for the rainy season, and wheels. What do you guys think?

[mauricio_28]

Have you given some thought to the performance and fuel consumption of those already thirsty, normally aspirated gas/petrol engines when you're cruising at 4,000masl? I hate to see what type of mileage you get on a fully loaded Tundra climbing out of La Paz unto the Altiplano. Yikes!

In my mind, THE smaller, modern vehicle for this type of expedition is Toyota's newest 3.0L TDI HiLux. Regrettably, the closest it gets to the U.S. is Guatemala.

[LaOutbackTrail]

Have you given some thought to the performance and fuel consumption of those already thirsty, normally aspirated gas/petrol engines when you're cruising at 4,000masl? I hate to see what type of mileage you get on a fully loaded Tundra climbing out of La Paz unto the Altiplano. Yikes!

In my mind, THE smaller, modern vehicle for this type of expedition is Toyota's newest 3.0L TDI HiLux. Regrettably, the closest it gets to the U.S. is Guatemala.

Going to Guatemala to get a HiLux might be worth it. Savings in the long run. Mauricio, do you know about how much they are for Jlit's consideration.

Jlit- There would be no efficiency going with the Tundra. You might consider going to a Central American country, buying a HiLux or Prado (LandCruiser) and outfitting it with the correct ARB gear and going for it. I just happen to spot a convoy of '06 Prados in Costa Rica (in '06). They were crossing a river off the side of the road... so I stopped and asked them what they were up to. It was Toyota folks doing a test run in the jungles and stuff...

A 4x4 toyota Hi-Ace might be interesting too...

Mauricio is right about the diesel engines. Not only will you get better fuel mileage, in many of the countries, diesel is much cheaper. Oh and apparently they handle those deep watercrossing better.... http://youtube.com/watch?v=3EgFTeRRP5w

Have you guys considered doing the trip in reverse? Fly to Argentina, buy and rig your vehicle there and then go North?

[Lynn]

Since it sounds like you need the vehicles for 'bad road' conditions, not 'off road' conditions, have you considered a Mercedes-based Sprinter van? Lots of room, 20mpg diesel, good parts support network (from what I understand),...

[BruceNP]

Shipping costs for your secondary transportation (non-bicycle) around the Gap has to be considered in your budget. Since there are no ferry's in that region, if you end up with two vehicles you are just doubling your problem.

A Fuso FG140 4x4 with a standard box on the back and single bunk beds attached to the walls (with the rest as storage) may be the way to go. Isuzu's are found everywhere and are very reliable. The new Hino's look good for this purpose too. The Nissan UD can be ordered in 4WD.

1. No tents to set up unless the weather is nice.
2. Diesel so you'll get decent mileage
3. Single vehicle, so you'll get even better mileage
4. Kinda of a stealth unit. Looks like any other truck so not as noticeable.
5. Can seat 3 in the cab (but a bit cramped).
6. Not too expensive and comes with a 175,000 mile warrantee
7. Lots of buyers for when you are done with it.
8. Many decent units available used, but reliable.
9. Tons of inside storage.
10. Could retrofit water, toilet and cooking into the back area.
11. Room for the bikes inside.
12. Can secure the back box and leave the cab empty for shipping.

Just thinking.

[Fishenough]

Someone mentioned a Toyota HiAce, which is a great idea IMO; common enough to blend, good diesel mileage for interior volume, part time 4x4, and parts availability. Since your traveling mostly out of your own country couldn't you purchase a 15 year old Japanese import if you could manage insurance? JDM's are already imported to the US as offroad only vehicles, would that work as long as you could get coverage.

Great dealer in Whitehorse - http://www.outbackimports.ca/hiace_vans.html

http://www.outbackimports.ca/images/sale/07/LH-5814-01.JPG

What can I say, I'm a van guy and I'm OK with that. Now.

[mauricio_28]

I've said it before. I'll say it again. You want to go in a turbo diesel engine. South America is high. Some of the highest vehicular roads in the world are there. For example, La Paz, Bolivia sits in a "depression" at 3,700 masl. To get out, you need to climb out to 4,200 masl. A gas/petrol engine will be a like a thirsty dog on a hot summer day. It's power will decrease and fuel consumption increase. A diesel engine, aided by a turbo and intercooler, will remain a beast at altitude.

I had relatives check the price of a HiLux a while ago in Guatemala. I think the 4WD 3.0L TDI model goes for US$35k.

[BruceNP]

Rethink the Wolfhounds.

At a minimum, the vaccinations required will possibly include:
Rabies, Canine Distemper, Hepatitis, Parainfluenza, Parvovirus vaccine, Canine Adenovirus Type2, Bordetella Bornchiseptia Vaccine (Kennel Cough)

In some areas south of the border, people consider dogs as pest, though you will find more as pets than you used to. There is a common fear of rabies and dog bites. Semi-wild street dogs can be a big problem in some areas. Don't be surprised if people avoid you, which defeats a lot of the reason for going. A Wolfhound can be pretty scary. If you're that nervous about security, stay at home.

All that being said, you will probably increase your security having a dog along. Throw a sign on the truck "Pero Bravo" (Dangerous Dog) and most people will leave you alone. Many National Parks will not permit animals, so a bunch of the prettiest locations and best camping sites will be off of your available list. You can probably plan on anything from 10 minutes to an additional hour at each border crossing because you have an animal (or two) along.

Down in South America, you'll find that the same paperwork you see throughout Central America:

The dogs must be accompanied by a health certificate issued by a licensed veterinarian, and endorsed by a Veterinary Services (VS) veterinarian.

The dog has to carry the standard statement was examined and found to be healthy and free of any clinical signs of infectious disease. In general this examination should be conducted within 2 weeks of the departure date.

The dog must be Vaccinated against rabies.

They need vaccination for distemper, hepatitis, leptospirosis, parvovirus and parainfluenza virus.

You will need a Federal APHIS FORM 7001 (AUG 94), U.S. Interstate and International Certificate for Small Animals completed on each animal (about 70-80 $)

The accompanying health certificate should be made out at least in duplicate and, to ease border crossings, it have a copy translated into spanish.

The health certificate does NOT need to be signed by a Notary Public

------------
You will probably get hit up for a bribe at a bunch of the border crossings because of the inconvenience issue and because you are an easy mark (you can't abandon the dogs). You'll just have to be very patient, smile alot and LEARN SPANISH before you leave.

--------------
Talk to your vet before you leave about getting some preventive medications for the dogs. Just like you can easily pick up a bunch of very bad diseases from drinking the local water, so can the dogs ... and they can't read the warnings, so expect health issues to arise. You will have to take them on walks and let them get some exercise, so it's only a matter of time before they will acquire some nasty bug. Be prepared or else, be prepared to lose them.

-----------
Revised: Looking at your original posts, I see that you are planning on taking about 30 months for the trip. This is going to give you a number of problems on border entries. Your exams/paperwork isn't good for that long. You;ll need re-vaccinations, new certificates of health, periodic internal and external parasite treatment (Chile). Chile requires that the exam be within 15 days of traveling, so, you'll have to get it re-done in Peru while you are passing thru, etc, etc, etc ..... You have a TON of research ahead of you and a bunch of vets to line up in each country, just in case.

[upcruiser]

Besides the mentioned issues about the Tundra's economy, the other consideration I'd take into account is parts availability/serviceability in Central and South America. I spend time in Chile every summer and I've yet to see a Tundra in my travels. I've seen 1/2 and 3/4 ton Chevy's and 1/2 ton Ford's but yet to see Tundras. Being that you guys are likely going to be relying on shops for service along the way, picking a rig that can be serviced down there is huge. A pair of diesel Hiluxes would be at the top of my list personally for that type of trip. They are really common and wouldn't stick out much at all yet still be tough as nails and allow you to get off the beaten path when needed.

[canucksafari]

The other thing about taking dos with you is that mange is throughout the domestic dog population in Latin America. It will be fairly easy for your dogs to be infected. Seriously, I don't know why you think you need all this protection. The dogs will soon become more of a problem than a help. In most places in Latin America - especially the country side - dogs are not pets but work beasts. People will treat them like any other beast. If someone is going to shoot you they will also shoot your dogs. As for the armour, like I posted on MUD and armoured vehicle to the police and military spells narco. It will slow you down and cause you more grief. If someone wants to stop you, an armoured vehicle isn't goin to help.

Having lead groups in Mexico and South America I can tell you that your best protection is the space between your ears. If you just have to drive through an active Shining Path area in Peru, then you can expect the Shining Path to take you out. If you are flashing all your cool toys in front of the poor locals, then expect word to get around and for the local gang to steal your toys. You want to blend in as much as possible or have a military escort all the way.

[charlieaarons]

the vehicle needs to be armored.



Are you serious?

Look into a Cougar 4X4 or 6X6 (the 6X6 has a gvw of 52000 lb). Even so the tires aren't bulletproof.
If you are serious about the armor, stay home or learn Spanish.

Charlie

[LaOutbackTrail]

3votes Hi-Lux. They are dang common down there. They use them for everything. Tow trucks, fire trucks, ambulances... police cars... Get a blue or white one.

[BruceNP]

Hello all,

My name is jeff, and 4 associates and I are putting together an expedition from the top of Alaska to the southernmost tip of Argentina. 2 guys will be riding bicycles, I will be filming a tv show, 2 others will be conducting research, and together we will be filming 3 documentaries along the way about the needs of humanity and the environment in Latin and South America. I'm here because we need the perfect expedition vehicle.

We need ample space for 3-4 people, film equipment, expedition gear, bikes, batteries, and 2 irish wolfhounds. As many of you know, the roads through South America will require rugged 4x4 capabilities. In addition, with the threat of armed radicals, theives, and corrupt policia, the vehicle needs to be armored.

Any advice and assistance is most appreciated. Thank you.

1. Lay out the space you will need for storage of your equipment.
2. Identify what expedition gear you are going to carry.
3. Leave the dogs at home. If you do have a lengthy stay in any city during your trip, you'll have to find a kennel to board them.
4. Consider your security requirement. Just being obviously NOT RICH gringo's is probably all you need.
5. Consider your bad weather camping requirements (keeping gear dry, etc).
6. Forget about the "rugged" 4x4 ... if you are going to stay on the roads, you'll only use that occasionally the entire trip. Waste of money in all probability. Trade it for some extra ground clearance and a couple of spare tires. Learn to do simple maintenance. Take a class at the local Community College with the money you saved.
7. There are fewer armed radicals in most places you are headed than in NYC, Philly and Washington ... get real. You can't drive across the Darien Gap anyway so you will have to ship around it. Be prepared to have a complete change of plans. It's not real bright on the bike riders to drag their gear through the Darien. The Colombian side is all swamp and marshlands, the Panama side is all mountainous and a rain forest. On the south side of the Gap, you'll find that the region is controlled by the FARC. More on that later.
8. If someone asks for a bribe, insist on a receipt ... check out the proper technique over on HUBB.
9. If you armor anything, you'll probably get about 2mpg and run out of money before you clear the Canadian border.

People ride alone on motorcycles from the Prudoe Bay to the tip of Argentina, camping all the way, frequently alone and occasional female. It's not what you think according to your post. You need to get a couple good books on travel before you offend everyone where you are headed.

If you want a potentially violent adventure with an armored vehicle, might I suggest that you route via Afghanistan, Washington DC (after dark), Pakistan, Iran and Iraq, with stops in Syria, Philadelphia, Israel, Sudan, South Boston, Ethiopia, Libya, Johannesburg SA, Morrocco and New York City.

--------------
Concerning the FARC, and hostages taken since 2007

A civilian hostage, Fernando Araújo, later named Minister of Foreign Relations and formerly Development Minister, escaped his captors on December 31, 2006. Araújo had to walk through the jungle for five days before being found by troops in the hamlet of San Agustin, 350 miles (560 km) north of Bogotá. He was kidnapped on December 5, 2000 while exercising in the Caribbean coastal city of Cartagena. He was reunited with his family on January 5, 2007.

Another captive, Jhon Frank Pinchao a low ranking police officer, escaped his captors on April 28, 2007 after nine years in captivity. He was reunited with his family on May 15, 2007.

On January 10, 2008, former vice presidential candidate Clara Rojas and former congresswoman Consuelo Gonzalez were freed after six years in captivity.

On January 31, 2008, the FARC announced that they would release civilian hostages Luis Eladio Perez Bonilla, Gloria Polanco, and Orlando Beltran Cuellar to Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez as a humanitarian gesture. All of them were kidnapped in 2001.

On February 27, 2008, the three hostages and Jorge Eduardo Gechem Turbay (who was added to the list due to his poor health) were released by FARC. With the authorization of the Colombian government and the participation of the International Red Cross, a Venezuelan helicopter transported them to Caracas from San Jose del Guaviare.

44 political captives are currently being held by the FARC.

The FARC will take hostages for non-political reasons in order to collect ransom money. The route near the Darien in the north is a drug smuggling route, so you might be inviting un-necessary risk. Riding through their back-yard, so to speak, might not be the smartest thing.

Other than that, I think the rest of the trip will be great. I'd just ship the vehicle (and bikes AND riders) around the gap.\

Revised Loren and Patrica Upton have more experience in the Darien than any other gringos. They used to sell a guidebook to the Darien, but they haven't been back through there in nearly a decade because of the political danger. Their website is outbackofbeyond.com ... They have a really good writeup of crossing the Darien on a Rokon (2WD motorcycle). It's a great read, BUT now, posted on their website is the following notice.

Darien Gap Update - March 2008

In December we were contacted by a traveler that was attempting to hike the Darien Gap. He stated that the Panamanian police were NOT allowing any gringos to travel beyond either Yaviza or El Real.

[charlieaarons]

If you want a potentially violent adventure with an armored vehicle, might I suggest that you route via Afghanistan, Washington DC (after dark), Pakistan, Iran and Iraq, with stops in Syria, Philadelphia, Israel, Sudan, South Boston, Ethiopia, Libya, Johannesburg SA, Morrocco and New York City.

[/b]

You might even shorten that list. HUBB people report safe travel experience thru northern Afghanistan to Pakistan; thru Pakistan, Iran, Syria,Sudan, Libya and Ethiopia.
I myself have safely travelled in a small private vehicle throughout Israel (in 2003) and Johannesburg (in 1993).
The only places I'd really avoid would be Iraq and certain sections of US cities.

Charlie

[BruceNP]

You might even shorten that list. HUBB people report safe travel experience thru northern Afghanistan to Pakistan; thru Pakistan, Iran, Syria,Sudan, Libya and Ethiopia.
I myself have safely travelled in a small private vehicle throughout Israel (in 2003) and Johannesburg (in 1993).
The only places I'd really avoid would be Iraq and certain sections of US cities.

Charlie
You are probably right, though leave Jo'berg on there.

[Fishenough]

7. There are fewer armed radicals in most places you are headed than in NYC, Philly and Washington ... get real. You can't drive across the Darien Gap anyway so you will have to ship around it. Be prepared to have a complete change of plans. It's not real bright on the bike riders to drag their gear through the Darien. The Colombian side is all swamp and marshlands, the Panama side is all mountainous and a rain forest. On the south side of the Gap, you'll find that the region is controlled by the FARC. More on that later.

Friends and family are off to NYC in 5 days, yet consider the Baha too unsafe.

Here's a thread on van spotting in Guatemala; http://toyotavans.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4502

[LaOutbackTrail]

You are probably right, though leave Jo'berg on there.

Because none of the ones listed above have anything to do with where these guys are going... I'll add a couple of the places I know are dangerous.

Add the Zona Roja en San Jose, Costa Rica. Some 20,000 jobless Nicaraguans in an area the size of 4 football fields. No electricity, plenty of shoeless prostitutes, dead dogs in the streets that are covered in trash. We actually put the vehicle (TDI Frontier) in 4wd incase we had to run people over... oh and we didnt go less than 30 through there and had to lay on the horn a few times. 1/2 mile away was the movie theater we were going to.

Northern neighborhoods in Granada, Nicaragua. Use some caution when you pass through Granada... and Nicaragua in general. Dont let that statement deter you. I plan on spending a major part of my trip in Nica. What I have seen is awesomely beautiful and he people are great... but dang poor.

I haven't been there, but from what I have read, heard, and learned... I am going to avoid Mexico City. I do want to go south of the city to Popocatepetl Volcano. (look it up and go there.)

I'll agree with a previous statement that if you plan on sticking to the main roads.... while only occasionally going on tough-ish roads. A Toyota Hi-Ace might be the way to go.. 12 passenger van that can easily hold all the gear you need. I have been in a Hi-Ace that has done worse than this... http://youtube.com/watch?v=yHcc_VM8hbY . Well, it wasnt a Hi-Ace, but equally as nice, a Hyundai van that is the same setup as the HI-ACE with just about the same amount of support. Can be outfitted with snorkels and you can get them in 4wd. A friend of mine in Costa Rica has the Hyundai and he has put about 200,000miles (all in Costa Rica) without any problems. He takes very good care of his vehicle and is proud of it.

I totally agree with BruceNP...

People ride alone on motorcycles from the Prudoe Bay to the tip of Argentina, camping all the way, frequently alone and occasional female. It's not what you think according to your post. You need to get a couple good books on travel before you offend everyone where you are headed.
Your first post sent out a lot of bad vibes... you guys totally dont understand whats going on down there. Maybe you guys should take a short trip to Nicaragua and see what its really like. (PM me and I can hook you guys up with a decent tour guide).

[mauricio_28]

3votes Hi-Lux. They are dang common down there. They use them for everything. Tow trucks, fire trucks, ambulances... police cars... Get a blue or white one.

Toyota's Hilux is available in the Lousiana? Where did you manage to get a Diesel Frontier? I thought all diesel Nissan D40s are called Navara. Btw, I just took delivery of a TDI D40 Navara a week ago.

[LaOutbackTrail]

Toyota's Hilux is available in the Lousiana? Where did you manage to get a Diesel Frontier? I thought all diesel Nissan D40s are called Navara. Btw, I just took delivery of a TDI D40 Navara a week ago.

No... I have been to Costa Rica several times.... and oogle over the vehicles down there....

I dont recall what they call the Frontiers... but its the same body style as the frontiers they have here. This is down in Costa Rica... not the US.

Its a shame that we cant get the diesel stuff here.

[jlit]

You guys do bring up very good points. We were thinking of going with tundras over tacomas mainly because of the power it's going to take to get through mountain ranges like those in bolivia, plus we need the maximum possible amount of storage space for all our gear. Film gear, communication gear, expedition gear, all-in-all, a metric s*** ton.

However, I think 3 important factors we would like for our vehicle are reliablility, diesel (if possible), and fixability. I thought a newer toyota would be best because it would have fewer breakdowns in the course of 3 years, please correct me if I'm wrong. Is the Hilux diesel? Also, we are setting up one large insurance plan here in california to cover people, equipment, and vehicle, and would it be an issue to register the hilux here in the US? I hear I can get a new one from guatemala, but where is the closest?

Also, I've barely heard anyone mention Land Rover. What do you guys think of newer rovers? Considering petrol, reliability, and fixability, do you think a land rover discovery is a good option? I really question whether it could be enough space.

[mauricio_28]

In Guatemala, the Hilux is diesel only. Another option in Guatemala is the diesel Nissan Pathfinder with the class-leading YD25DDTi Common-rail TDI engine, the same engine in my Navara.

[mauricio_28]

Hate to preach the Gospel according to Diesel, but here are other considerations:

Another thing, for hauling and towing loads and climbing you want torque rather than power (hp). Yet another characteristic/advantage of diesel engines is their higher torque at lower rpm. As a matter of comparison, the Nissan Frontier's V6 gasoline engine has less torque at higher RPM than the Navara's TDI engine which gives you peak torque as low as 2,000rpm. Personal experience with the YD25DDTi engine tells me that by 1,500rpm it is ready to pound on the anvil.

For descending when loaded to the hilt, you want to use the engine rather than relying on the brakes. A long enough descent with a ton and a half(literally) of gear and passengers will quickly kill your brakes. Engine braking/compression is much higher with diesel engines so a lot less application of the break is required.

Before buying a vehicle, do yourself a favor by driving a diesel-engine truck. For some of us, once you go diesel there's no going back to gasoline, especially with the new, quiet, clean-running diesel engines.

[canucksafari]

I am with Mauricio on the diesel. If some of your expedition members are Canadians, you can buy low kms (but 15 year old) JDM diesel 4x4s such as the Land Cruisers, Nissan Safaris (Patrols), and Mitsubishi Canters (Fusos). AFAIK, support for the Safaris does not exist in the USA or the USM but in Canada and the rest of the Americas parts are fairly easy to come by. Prices on the Safari are about 5-7 Gs below that of a comprable Land Cruiser. However, they need to be turboed. At any rate, it is a good idea to have the turbo rebuilt on any JDM turbocharged diesel.

You can also look at 25 year old JDM, Aussie or Kiwi diesel imports. It is difficult to find them in good condition with a good price.

Still, I think the small diesel school bus would be perfect. Doesn't have the cooool expedition factor but it does the budget and security just fine.

[BruceNP]

Also, I've barely heard anyone mention Land Rover. What do you guys think of newer rovers? Considering petrol, reliability, and fixability, do you think a land rover discovery is a good option? I really question whether it could be enough space.
The image a lot of people have about the Rover, particularly older models is that the nightly repair in camp is as important to the user as the trip itself. You picture Rover drivers as a self-sufficient group who cheerfully reweld everything that broke during the day. People also talk about their "wet rovers", since having some sort of fluid leak is pretty much universal and most worry that a "dry rover" hasn't been properly taken care of or may be out of the "fluid of the day".

In reality, Rovers have gone more extensively that any other vehicles. Because of the vast number of miles traveled in remote places, a bunch have broken down, leading to the reputation. Though not quite as well engineered as the extremely durable Toyo Land Cruiser, they are still excellent and are the vehicle of choice it seems for some parts of Africa.

BUT .. even used, they are expensive. For cargo carrying capability, availability of diesel engines, ground clearance and 4WD, it's hard to beat a truck. The most widely used trucks in the world (standard pickup types) are probably Ford and Toyota. I'd consider a cab-forward design truck. Just as good of ground clearance, great visibility, great cargo capability. i.e.

[jlit]

Alright guys, we would love to do this expedition with 2 toyota hilux's. What is it going to take to get two new ones up here? The closest place we've found thus far is mexico city. Anyone know of anything closer to the border?

Also, there are some cool features of the tundra I can't find out about on the hilux. With the tundra, though automatic, can be driven like a standard. Seems very practical. Also, the rear crew cab window rolls down offering a lot of access to the back of the truck, also handy. I test drove a tundra today and was very impressed, especially with the turning radius.

How would you compare the tundra to the hilux? Also, storage space comparison?

thanks.

[mauricio_28]

Bottom line is you can't bring a diesel Hilux in to the States because it doesn't meet US emission standards. If it did, Toyota itself would likely bring it in itself.

AFAIK, Mexico is the only country where both Tundra/Tacoma and Hiluxes are sold. However, the 4WD TDI Hilux is not sold in Mexico. Guatemala is your closest outlet.

The Hilux is a work vehicle first, a lifestyle/adventure vehicle second. The Tundra/Tacoma are mindful of American preferences and tastes so they tend to be more "tricked-out" with mod-cons. The Tundra/Tacoma have to be mindful of the American truck competition so they have to make concessions in order to appeal to American tastes. The HiLux is not constrained by American tastes.

A rule of thumb when you're going off the deep end is that you want to avoid the "neat features" and the gimmicks. You want fewer, simpler things to break down.

[charlieaarons]

Alright guys, we would love to do this expedition with 2 toyota hilux's. What is it going to take to get two new ones up here? The closest place we've found thus far is mexico city. Anyone know of anything closer to the border?




Are you going to do this trip with what some people you've never met tell you is the best? Why don't you sit down and really think about things, like whether you are going to sleep in the vehclce, beside the vehicle, or in (hard to find, especially when on bicycles) lodgings?
If sleep-beside, smaller rigs are fine.
If sleep-in, maybe think about at least one large rig (Class 6 or 7).

Do some thinking, don't just act upon a bunch of randomly gathered ideas on the Internet.

Charlie

[LaOutbackTrail]

Are you going to do this trip with what some people you've never met tell you is the best? Why don't you sit down and really think about things, like whether you are going to sleep in the vehclce, beside the vehicle, or in (hard to find, especially when on bicycles) lodgings?
If sleep-beside, smaller rigs are fine.
If sleep-in, maybe think about at least one large rig (Class 6 or 7).

Do some thinking, don't just act upon a bunch of randomly gathered ideas on the Internet.

Charlie

He has asked us what we think. We are giving him great ideas for what he has asked for.

Mauricio is right. The Hi-Lux is a work horse. I believe they are about the size of the tacoma, but have an oversized (I believe) frame which if I remember correctly is a 1ton equivalent frame. Toyota made some 1ton framed pickups in the 70s... The con to having this heavy frame is that it wont have the plush ride that the tundras have... but considering it is a vehicle that is found in almost all of Latin America is a major plus. Sure, the Tundras have plenty of power (hp) and gizmos, but for your trip... the less to break the better. There are a bunch of cons that you need to consider by doing your own research on whatever vehicle you choose. I dont remember where you guys are starting at? What state? If any of your team members are in Canada... go to Guatemala and drive a hilux back to Canada to be customized.

You may even want to consider a Ford F250-F450 with a camper... or heck.... spend the money on a custom EarthRoamer (http://earthroamer.com/) . Emphasize sleeping for 5 and storage. Less on the stuff like sinks, fridges, stoves, etc. When you dont eat the super cheap food in the americas... you'll be able to use small stoves for the times you cook out and about...

My dad got an award from Ford for putting 4million miles on several fords over the years. His most recent Ford, a 2003 F250 has 300,000 on it (now my cousin's truck). No major problems other than maintenance (which included replacing parts, rebuilding the turbo, etc.

We are mearly offering suggestions based on what you have said you need/want.

my quarters worth ($0.25)

[mauricio_28]

So-called "small" rigs like the Hilux can also accomodate sleep-in facilities. Simply plop a Maggiolina tent on a rack above the bed
http://www.autohomeus.com/products/index.php

If I had money to burn, I'd ship a Maggiolina to Guatemala where I'd affix it to a manual 4WD 3.0L TDI Hilux. And then, I'd start driving south. With that killer core setup, the rest is details.

[IronViking]

Heres my vote for a truck.
Mitsubishi!! Should be easy to get and repair.
4x4 too.

[mauricio_28]

Ya, try driving/parking that rig in Mexico City, Lima or virtually any Latin American capital city.

Drool here: http://www.trucktrend.com/features/news/2008/163_news080411_2009_toyota_hilux_pickup/index.html

[canucksafari]

I am with IronViking on this one. Actually, that rig is used in countries all over the world. You can buy it new or used in the US or Canada. It comes in 4x4 or double cab (6 pas). The Fuso/Canter has probably the best access to local parts and supllies around the globe of any heavy truck. I have seen them in Cities from Mexico City to Cochabamba to Madrid. Are there lanes you won't get through? Of course there are. But a lot of those lanes you wouldn't want to try and run a Hiluz through either.

Interestingly, Jlit has said nothing about specifics concerning their vehicle and accessories budget. That would help us recommend new, used or abused. Also, it would be good to know how mechanically experienced they are.

[LaOutbackTrail]

I am with IronViking on this one. Actually, that rig is used in countries all over the world. You can buy it new or used in the US or Canada. It comes in 4x4 or double cab (6 pas). The Fuso/Canter has probably the best access to local parts and supllies around the globe of any heavy truck. I have seen them in Cities from Mexico City to Cochabamba to Madrid. Are there lanes you won't get through? Of course there are. But a lot of those lanes you wouldn't want to try and run a Hiluz through either.

Interestingly, Jlit has said nothing about specifics concerning their vehicle and accessories budget. That would help us recommend new, used or abused. Also, it would be good to know how mechanically experienced they are.

Jlit said they were considering two new toyota tundras.... suggesting at least 100k in vehicles and upgrades. They also said they dont know much in the way of mechanics. They did say they wanted to upgrade suspension, add armor (bumpers) and sleeping quarters, etc. $115k maybe?

The Fuso/Canter/Mitsubishi truck looks like a good idea guys.:smiley_drive:

[Christian P.]

Jilt,

I think we could keep posting ideas for a long time here, but I am a bit with Charlie on this one. I think we need a more precise idea of what exactly is your budget, the type of people in your group and your goals.

30 months on the road is a very long time. I don't think there's anyone here on this forum who has spent that much time camping and living out of a truck. The longest I have been on the road is about 18 months and that was alternating between hotels/friends and camping in my truck.

If you really going to spend that much time, you need some living space inside or else you will end up miserables. You need space to work, live, play, cook, etc - rain or shine.

You will also need some serious spaces for gears and extra parts.

Based on what I read, I would also think a Fuso Crew Cab would be your best bet or a F350 Crew Cab with one of these mega giant truck camper....

[canucksafari]

Based on what I read, I would also think a Fuso Crew Cab would be your best bet or a F350 Crew Cab with one of these mega giant truck camper....

Just to be clear, the Fuso crew cab (6 pas) 4WD is not available for purchase new in the US. It is available new only in 2WD. Canadians can access the few used ones with low kms from Japan which are 15 years old. If you are willing to accept 2WD (3 Pas), then I would also consider Hino and UD Trucks. Someone was telling me last week that UD Truck provides 4WD as an option. I haven't confirmed that as in Canada there is no UD Truck.

[BruceNP]

I agree that a Fuso is a great choice ...

... but I'm not convinced they need 4WD. Reading Doug Hackney's blog about using his Fuso, I think he's engaged his 4WD once and that probably wasn't necessary then. I wish he would chime in on this topic, but I know he's busy. DH is spending lots of time on gravel and dirt roads.

As a 2WD with a winch attached any one of the Cab Forward trucks that also has a crew cab option would probably do just fine. 4WD is just gravy. It would be cheaper too.

[haven]

The company that works with Nissan Diesel America to convert UD trucks to 4x4 is Pioneer Four Wheel Drive Company. This is a factory-approved modification that you order through the UD Truck dealer when you purchase your truck. So you can finance the conversion as part of the original purchase price. Here's the Pioneer web site http://www.pioneer4wheeldrive.com

Here's the 4x4 conversion of a class 7 cab/chassis:
http://www.pioneer4wheeldrive.com/images/index_r14_c4.jpg

There's more information in this thread
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7748

Chip Haven

[canucksafari]

So you can finance the conversion as part of the original purchase price. Here's the Pioneer web site http://www.pioneer4wheeldrive.com

Wow, at those prices you can buy a lot of other truck!