Odyssey vs. Diehard Platinum

[adventureduo]

After hearing that odyssey is making sears diehard batteries i looked at the group 34 for comparison. Needless to say, im heading to sears tomorrow for 2 new batteries for the cruiser. It's the same battery IMHO.

Size: Group 34 *(Sears P-1 and Odyssey PC1500)

Diehard Price:$189.00

Odyssey Price:$289.00


Specs:

Odyssey:CCA: 825A at 0ºF
Reserve capacity: 125 minutes

Diehard: Cold Cranking Amps (CCA at 0 deg.F): 880
Reserve Capacity (RC):135 min.




Pics - same handle, same stud mounts and same side buldge on case.

[TheGillz]

This is great news, looking forward to hearing your thoughts on your next trip. Do you have the whole set up with inverter and charge left guages?

[adventureduo]

Do you have the whole set up with inverter and charge left guages?

Nope, i have bare bones reliable blue seas boston mangler manual get out of the truck type setup. Just the guage in the stock cluster.

[adventureduo]

Ok, just got back from Sears. They had plenty in stock. Guy behind the counter said they're getting more popular.

(2) Platinums for $389.00 out the door.

48 Months Full Replacement Warranty - 52 Months Prorated Warranty - 100 Months Total Warranty

I'll install them tomorrow and post pics.

[Schattenjager]

After talking with an Odyssey shop in Alaska, he told me they look the same and have similar specs, but the Odyssey brand name has different "ingredients" than the Sears. He went on to say that the extra $ for the Odyssey reflected the better grade materials such as media purity. He believed that Odyssey was buying the guts from someone else and putting them in their boxes for the lower prices, rebadged units. I don't know this guy and have no stake in this debate, but I am very curious.

IF this is true, I guess it like buying a V6 Mustang vs a GT - looks the same but the guts differ.

If the military switches, then so will I. Till then...

[Dave]

After talking with an Odyssey shop in Alaska, he told me they look the same and have similar specs, but the Odyssey brand name has different "ingredients" than the Sears. He went on to say that the extra $ for the Odyssey reflected the better grade materials such as media purity. He believed that Odyssey was buying the guts from someone else and putting them in their boxes for the lower prices, rebadged units. I don't know this guy and have no stake in this debate, but I am very curious.

IF this is true, I guess it like buying a V6 Mustang vs a GT - looks the same but the guts differ.

If the military switches, then so will I. Till then...

Odyssey doesn't make batteries, EnerSys does. EnerSys produces the Diehard Platinum line of batteries, Enersys produces the Trolling Thunder line of batteries (which is now being badged as Odyssey). If domain name registration information is a reliable indicator, I'd say that Odyssey and Trolling Thunder is actually an EnerSys owned company (branding?) rather then a supplier.

I'd love to see some hard data that shows whether or not the Odyssey line is the same as the DieHard Platinum line. I suspect it's the same battery, just rebadged, but I can't back that up with any technical info.

[adventureduo]

After talking with an Odyssey shop in Alaska, he told me they look the same and have similar specs, but the Odyssey brand name has different "ingredients" than the Sears. He went on to say that the extra $ for the Odyssey reflected the better grade materials such as media purity. He believed that Odyssey was buying the guts from someone else and putting them in their boxes for the lower prices, rebadged units. I don't know this guy and have no stake in this debate, but I am very curious.

IF this is true, I guess it like buying a V6 Mustang vs a GT - looks the same but the guts differ.

If the military switches, then so will I. Till then...

Interesting, ive heard this too. Nobody can confirm obviously if the guts are the same or not. However i'll say this, with the same cranking amps and amazing warranty who cares. If the thing ever dies, i have 2. I switch to battery B and head on over and get a new one for free.

[Schattenjager]

Interesting, ive heard this too. Nobody can confirm obviously if the guts are the same or not. However i'll say this, with the same cranking amps and amazing warranty who cares. If the thing ever dies, i have 2. I switch to battery B and head on over and get a new one for free.

That, my friend, is a SOLID plan!
:bowdown:

[adventureduo]

Here is the press release for Sears/Enersys.
EnerSys Signs Multi-Year Contract to Provide Sears Holdings With Long-Life DieHard(R) Platinum BatteriesREADING, Pa. and HOFFMAN ESTATES, Ill., Feb. 27 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- EnerSys (NYSE: ENS), the world's largest manufacturer, marketer and distributor of industrial batteries, today announced it has signed a multi- year contract with Sears Holdings (Nasdaq: SHLD) to manufacture and supply Sears with a newly categorized DieHard Platinum branded battery for aftermarket automotive and marine applications. DieHard is America's most preferred automotive battery, among those stating a preference.
Beginning in March, 2007, Sears Auto Centers will be the exclusive distribution channel for DieHard Platinum batteries. "By working with EnerSys on the new DieHard Platinum battery, we continue the legacy of innovation that was established with the original DieHard battery 40 years ago," said Rick Sawyer, vice president/general merchandise manager of Sears Auto Centers. "We're confident this new battery will live up to the DieHard brand name and that users will be pleased with its performance. These premium-grade batteries are designed for a longer life than traditional batteries, offer increased levels of safe operation, can withstand extreme heat and cold, and are durable for consumer automotive/marine applications. The DieHard Platinum battery will offer proven vibration resistance to the consumer market.
The new DieHard Platinum batteries have up to 28% more Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) than comparatively sized spiral Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) batteries providing much more starting power to automobiles and boats, along with unmatched reserved capacity. These thin-plate pure-lead batteries will carry DieHard batteries' best-ever, free replacement warranty. See your local Sears store for written warranty details.
"We're thrilled to provide this high-end, durable DieHard Platinum version to consumers," said John Craig, chairman, president and chief executive officer of EnerSys. "This partnership represents a great opportunity for more users to benefit from our pure-lead technology products."
The DieHard Platinum batteries are manufactured in EnerSys' U.S. manufacturing facility in Warrensburg, Mo, where the first DieHard Platinum came off the production line today. They have a valve-regulated design that allows them to be installed in any orientation, except inverted, without spilling and the U.S. Department of Transportation has classified them as non- spillable for safe shipping.
For more information, contact Richard Zuidema, Executive Vice President, EnerSys, P.O. Box 14145, Reading, PA 19612-4145. Tel: 800/538-3627; Web site: EnerSys Home.

[Dave]

I e-mailed EnerSys this weekend, their response:


David:

That is a very astute observation. We private label the Sears DieHard
Platinum batteries and they are rebadged Odyssey batteries.

Thanks.

Kalyan Jana

Development Support Manager - Specialty Markets

Desk: (660) 429-7505

Cell: (816) 308-1543
Fax: (660) 429-1758

www.enersys.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Niethammer, Carlene
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 6:42 AM
To: Jana, Kalyan
Subject: FW: Website Visitor Comments / Inquiry



-----Original Message-----
From: db@ilikecoconuts.com [mailto:db@ilikecoconuts.com]
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 6:57 PM
To: Niethammer, Carlene
Subject: Website Visitor Comments / Inquiry


Comments
Hello,

I recently discovered the Sears DieHard Platinum line of batteries and I
noticed they look identical to the Odyssey line. Is there a difference
between the two?

Thanks for your time.

David Baker

And now you know the rest of story.

[SOAZ]

Nice to have it confirmed. My optima is 2+ years old so it will surely die soon in the 110 summer.
Good to know, good to know!

[cruiseroutfit]

Very good to know. Any idea if they have plans to do the metal jacket or 1200 series models?

[Hltoppr]

...being as the el cheapo starting battery in the Troopy just went to the battery afterlife this morning....and I was just going to go pick up another Optima...

You just made my choices more difficult! :mixed-smiley-030:

-H-

[111db]

Nice to know, since mine crapped out sunday.

[SOAZ]

What about the Marine versions. One of the ones I saw today at sears had 1100 CCA. YIKES! thats a lot of battery. Of course it was $239 for the Marine one.

[Dave]

Nice to know, since mine crapped out sunday.

You had a DieHard Platinum fail already?

[SOAZ]

You had a DieHard Platinum fail already?
No, I think he's just saying good timing since he needs a new battery.

[Dave]

Very good to know. Any idea if they have plans to do the metal jacket or 1200 series models?

I asked Kalyan @ EnerSys and she said she wasn't sure if Sears is looking to expand the Platinum range. If they do, she doubts they (Sears) would be interested in the 1200 since it's not a standard BCI group size automotive battery.

[calamaridog]

Did you price the 1500 down the street at West Coast Batteries? They are in Corona and the largest Odyssey supplier in the US. I've also found their Odyssey prices unbeatable...

Just curious, because that price of $189 is sounding pretty good right now!

[Hltoppr]

Just picked one up in the P-4 (Group 34 w/ side terminals) for $179 at the local Sears.

Fits great...we'll see how it fares....

-H-

[Hltoppr]

Well...the old battery must have been in poor condition...I've never had the Troopy start so quickly when cold as it did this morning....

I've got dual batts in it already...gotta go get another Platinum to match the first....

-H- :elkgrin:

[SOAZ]

With the type of trickle draws that overlanders put on their batteries I'm surprised nobody has gotten the Marine versions yet?
What would be the negative?

[goodtimes]

Well...the old battery must have been in poor condition...I've never had the Troopy start so quickly when cold as it did this morning....

I've got dual batts in it already...gotta go get another Platinum to match the first....

-H- :elkgrin:

Hey, can you get some dimensions off of the new one for me? I'm trying to find some batteries for the jeep, and am *really* tight on space.

[Dave]

With the type of trickle draws that overlanders put on their batteries I'm surprised nobody has gotten the Marine versions yet?
What would be the negative?

The marine PM-2 (group size 34M) does not offer too many advantages over the P-4 (34/78DT) that Hltoppr picked up. Reserve capacity is the same, Ah is the same, and CCA is the same. The only real difference I can see is the terminal layout and the PM-2 cost a little more. I don't see a big advantage to going to the marine version of the group size 34 battery.

Now, the PM-1 (31M) does offer more reserve capacity, amp hours, and CCA, but it does cost $60 more then the P-4 and it's more then 20 pounds heavier! So there would be your negatives.

I believe all Odyssey/DieHard Platinums are a combination starting/deep cycle battery. In other words, I don't think the marine versions offer any deep cycle advantages over their automotive counterparts.

[adventureduo]

I can measure mine, hold on one second. The cruiser has dual Platinums now. Group 34.

[Hltoppr]

I could get some measurements at lunch too....

-H-

[adventureduo]

Here you go, please don't pay attention to the terminals nor the shrink tubing or layout for that matter. It's all in the middle of a change and the terminals are being upgraded to mil-spec. These batteries have dual posts, you just cant see them cause the batteries are backwards in the tray. Hence the reason for the cables being changed out and configured differently.

[Dave]

Dimensions on the Sears webpage for the 34/78DT:

Height: 7-4/5 in.
Width: 7-1/10 in.
Length: 10-9/10 in.

Height should include the terminal.

Edit: Here are some detailed dimensions for the Odyssey 1500 34/78DT... http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc1500.htm

[Schattenjager]

Well...the old battery must have been in poor condition...I've never had the Troopy start so quickly when cold as it did this morning....

-H- :elkgrin:

I know what you mean - When I put the Odyssey 2150 in the Tacoma and fired it for the first time, the starter nearly flipped the truck over!

[Curmudgeon]

I stopped by my local Sears store yesterday to price the Platinums. A group 31 Die Hard Platinum is $240. Just down the street at Batterys Plus the same Odyssey battery is $400.

I have a nagging suspicion that even though EnerSys has said they are a rebadged Odyssey that they may not be identical internally. In the response from EnerSys, it doesn't say they are the same battery, just that they are a rebadged Odyssey. Call me suspicious, but I have to wonder how there can be a $160 difference if they are the same battery. Someone please prove me wrong.

To go a little further with the same subject, while I was at Sears I bought a new battery for my ATV. In large letters in a gold square on the box are the letters AGM. But when you look closely, just below that in small letters is the word "Technology." Open the box and there is a battery and a container of electrolyte that must be added to the battery. I asked the clerk, who seemed pretty knowledgeable, how it could be an AGM battery if it required liquid electrolyte. He agreed that it could not be, and that the labeling is a bit misleading. Neither of us could understand how an unsealed, liquid electrolyte battery could have any relationship to AGM technology.

So I have to wonder if Sears has done something similar with the Platinum batteries. Have they had EnerSys make internal changes to cheapen the batteries to meet a price point? That is a common practice in retailing. It's not dishonest, it's just somewhat misleading.

[TheGillz]

As the great Yogurt said, "VOLUME!".

[adventureduo]

As the great Yogurt said, "VOLUME!".

Yep, same way Costco and Wally World can get the best prices on their products. Cause they order a boatload. Instead of the offroad shop that orders 5.

[Hltoppr]

Mine's doing well so far...about to go pick up another one...

-H-

[adventureduo]

Right on.

New National Luna terminals just came in today from Equipt. Going to clean up both battery areas and ditch the cheesy schlep boy terminals. Need to re-shrink some and crimp some new terminal connectors.

[TheGillz]

Ok after reviewing Spaceballs the Movie, it was 'merchandizing' not 'volume'.

still....

[Hltoppr]

Just installed numero dos....so far so good.

Sorry about the focus...I need better garage lights, and the ability to get out of the office during daylight.... :smilies27

http://hltoppr.smugmug.com/photos/291902712_JToHR-M.jpg

-H-

[adventureduo]

Here's my cleaned up version... of the previous post. I would still like to lengthen the winch line + so it doesnt cross over top the battery. Drivers side battery looks indentical.

No more wingnuts!
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/4020/s6300160kg9.jpg

[Hltoppr]

...um...yeah...mine's getting cleaned up when I put the HEI dizzy in....and the fuse block...and the winch...

Geez...two batteries certainly gave me a lot of work to do!

-H-

[Brett M]

Since I am dumb....and have no idea....how would I go about finding out what size battery my Cherokee XJ uses? I've an Orbital in there now, which is crapping out.......

Time for a new one I'd say

[TheGillz]

So here's a dumb ?? Are these dual or deep cycle? Or can you get either at Sears now? I won't have need for another in the rig, as I plan on eventually putting a battery or two in the trailer and had planned on getting just deep cycle for non starting purposes...

[Hltoppr]

I don't think they're advertised as "deep cycle." Mostly starting batteries.

Brett,

The size will likely depend upon the year of your XJ and the engine/options. Check here: http://www.batteriesplus.com/sub_models/61-SLI/4496-Car-and-Truck-Batteries/0-Jeep/Cherokee.aspx

HTH

-H-

[adventureduo]

Got crimpers? :D

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/1794/s6300168fb5.jpg

Going to rebuild some of the battery lines now.

[shawkins]

Got crimpers? :D

*snip*

Going to rebuild some of the battery lines now.
Geeze! Those are huge! Kinda makes me glad I use the easy way for putting on terminals... Propane torch and solder.

The 4Runner is due here for a new battery and I think I'm going to venture away from the Les Schwab batteries that have always treated me right and try one of these.

But, do they come with the terminals reversed? I don't really want to redo my wiring.

[mr r2fj]

where do you find battery cable crimpers that aren't a fortune!

[Tucson T4R]

Geeze! Those are huge! Kinda makes me glad I use the easy way for putting on terminals... Propane torch and solder.

The 4Runner is due here for a new battery and I think I'm going to venture away from the Les Schwab batteries that have always treated me right and try one of these.

But, do they come with the terminals reversed? I don't really want to redo my wiring.


My Dad just tried to put one of these Sears Platinum batteries in his 4Runner and they didn't have any reverse polarity models available. I don't know if they carry them at other Sears locations but this forced my Dad to just go install another Optima. He didn't want to deal with modifying the battery cables to handle the reversed battery posts from the stock config. :ar15:

[adventureduo]

Yeah i nicknamed it the "big daddy" crimper. Everyone mistakes it for a bolt cutter lol


where do you find battery cable crimpers that aren't a fortune!

No kidding! Im super lucky. That crimper is about $500. Thank goodness i get to borrow it whenever i need by a engineer buddy that works for LAX. It's not worth it for me to buy one when i do a battery setup or change twice a vehicle..

[Fergie]

Well, went out to the WJ this morning and clickety clickety clickety clickety clickety...

Down to Sears I went; walked out the door with a Platinum for a little under $200...and I'll bring the old one back tomorrow.

Jeep started FAST too...but I had a feeling the old one was on the way out.

[bjowett]

A little late here, but the ATV battery you are speaking of is a real AGM. There are fiberglass mats in there, they soak up the acid when you dump it in... pop on the top and it should be sealed.

Good read here - http://www.atvconnection.com/Features/Feature_Articles/A-primer-on-ATV-batteries.cfm

Kind of makes one wish all batteries were shipped with the acid seperately and required activation by the user.

As for the internals, who knows? They do offer 4 years free replacement and over 8 years on the prorate.. Consumer Reports rates them as high they go.


I stopped by my local Sears store yesterday to price the Platinums. A group 31 Die Hard Platinum is $240. Just down the street at Batterys Plus the same Odyssey battery is $400.

I have a nagging suspicion that even though EnerSys has said they are a rebadged Odyssey that they may not be identical internally. In the response from EnerSys, it doesn't say they are the same battery, just that they are a rebadged Odyssey. Call me suspicious, but I have to wonder how there can be a $160 difference if they are the same battery. Someone please prove me wrong.

To go a little further with the same subject, while I was at Sears I bought a new battery for my ATV. In large letters in a gold square on the box are the letters AGM. But when you look closely, just below that in small letters is the word "Technology." Open the box and there is a battery and a container of electrolyte that must be added to the battery. I asked the clerk, who seemed pretty knowledgeable, how it could be an AGM battery if it required liquid electrolyte. He agreed that it could not be, and that the labeling is a bit misleading. Neither of us could understand how an unsealed, liquid electrolyte battery could have any relationship to AGM technology.

So I have to wonder if Sears has done something similar with the Platinum batteries. Have they had EnerSys make internal changes to cheapen the batteries to meet a price point? That is a common practice in retailing. It's not dishonest, it's just somewhat misleading.

[111db]

I installed the Diehard Group 34 on my 3rd Gen 4runner without lengthening the cables. You can see in the pic that the negative reaches, just need to move the grounding point on the fender forward by a few inches. For the postive, I made a 1/4" thick by 3/4" wide by 4.5" long bus bar that bolts between the positive cable and the positive battery lug. I have the rubber cap moved sideways in the pic for viewing access. I drilled and tapped an additional hole in the bus bar for the two wires that at are always "hot" (aux lights & aux fusebox). The red tape you see if aircraft F4 electrical insulating tape.

The holddown is 12.5" long by 1.5" bar stock. I used the factory J bolt on the back side. I (unsuccessfuly) used some foam tape on the underside of the holddown, you can see in the pic that the heat and vibration caused it to migrate.

I put 200 seriously jarring offroad miles on it last weekend. The bus bar worked as planned. I need some kind of heavy rubber backing on the holddown bar to further reduce any battery movement due to vibration.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v416/111db/4Runner/MogollonRim008.jpg

[MoGas]

Socal, Do you have enough pics of your dual setup to provide a write-up or is it exactly like mangler's (http://www.bajaoverland.com/dualbats.php)?

Dave

[adventureduo]

Mogas, It's exactly like Manglers.. that's what i copied off of. Yes sir.

[MoGas]

Cool. I already have the marine switch and 25ft of 1/0 welding cable. I just need the time. What are these Mil Spec terminals you speak of?

[adventureduo]

I bought National Luna terminals, so far im happy with them. They seem a little flimsy though. Next go around i'd probably get the Mil-spec terminals from Kilby Enterprises.

http://www.kilbyenterprises.com/images/product%20photos/MS75004-1-n-2.jpg

[Brian McVickers]

What does anyone think of the Group 65 version of this Diehard Platinum.
I was going to get the Group 34 but reolized that for the same price the Group 65 has 50 more CCA at 930 vs 880, the same Reserve Minutes at 135 but 7 more amp hours at 75 vs 68 and 7 pounds heavier.

Just curious, although I'm still thinking of the group 34 as it will be easier to use in a dual settup.

Thanks
Brian

[Boston Mangler]

I bought National Luna terminals, so far im happy with them. They seem a little flimsy though. Next go around i'd probably get the Mil-spec terminals from Kilby Enterprises.

http://www.kilbyenterprises.com/images/product%20photos/MS75004-1-n-2.jpg

Good choice Dave! I have been using these for years with great results!

Little trick though, they are only $7-8 at your local napa (dont have to pay shipping!) and are the EXACT same units! :D

FYI, those numbers on the top of them are their Napa part #'s as well, they can be cross referenced in their puter, i just did this last week to pick up another "+" terminal cause i lost it! :D :D :D

[Boston Mangler]

Go big or go home right? :D

I just finally installed my group 31 Sears Die-Hard Platinum Deep Cycle Marine Bat. Yup, its a bigggen!

Here are some pics, right now it is just in a plastic case in the rear until i build up the customer drawer setup with the 2500 watt inverter, should come out very cool if i can put my drawing ideas to real life! :D

HEY DAVE, PLEASE NOTE THE SHRINK WRAP AT THE END OF THE CABLES! :clapsmile HeHeHehe

Here ya go:

http://www.bajaoverland.com/images/auxbat003_resized.jpg

http://www.bajaoverland.com/images/auxbat005_resized.jpg

http://www.bajaoverland.com/images/auxbat006_resized.jpg

http://www.bajaoverland.com/images/auxbat007_resized.jpg

http://www.bajaoverland.com/images/auxbat008_resized.jpg

http://www.bajaoverland.com/images/auxbat011_resized.jpg

http://www.bajaoverland.com/images/auxbat012_resized.jpg

[JeepinBear]

Go big or go home right? :D

I just finally installed my group 31 Sears Die-Hard Platinum Deep Cycle Marine Bat. Yup, its a bigggen!


http://www.bajaoverland.com/images/auxbat003_resized.jpg



I just installed two of these in my Winnebago. I don't think I'll be having any power problems for a while. These are FULL WARRANTED for 3 years.

Now, if I could only fit one in the Jeep!?!

[Backwoods Rambler]

I'm glad I stopped in a read this thread, I think my XJ battery is on its way out ;)

[Backwoods Rambler]

Why this Die-Hard Platinum/Odyssey and not an Optima?

I thought that the AGM material of the Optima would win hands down in the rough road conditions that we all often travel on.

Any thoughts on this?

[rambrush]

Well I am running Dual Odyssey's 1200's in a Toyota Tundra. They meet the military spec's and a metal case around them. Much stronger than the Optima's in my opinion.
I still can't upload pictures so none available yet.

[Backwoods Rambler]

...... Consumer Reports rates them as high they go.


FYI- I have been unable to confirm this.............If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.



EDIT: NEVERMIND...JUST FOUND IT!

[Backwoods Rambler]

FYI- I have been unable to confirm this.............If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.



EDIT: NEVERMIND...JUST FOUND IT!

Not only did I find it but........



Why this Die-Hard Platinum/Odyssey and not an Optima?

I thought that the AGM material of the Optima would win hands down in the rough road conditions that we all often travel on.

Any thoughts on this?

......... CR's website states that the Die-Hard Platinum IS an AGM battery.

[Hltoppr]

Just an update on my two Die Hard Platinums...well...it seems that I've been driving around for a week or so without an alternator....and the batteries held up just fine running the ignition and stereo....

Not too bad! Can't wait to see if they'll recharge well....I'll let everyone know.

-H-

[adventureduo]

Why this Die-Hard Platinum/Odyssey and not an Optima?
Any thoughts on this?

Yeah , cause ever since Optima was bought out - they suck. Quality has gone downhill real fast.

[Wyoming Shooter]

I bought a Die Hard Platinum from the Cheyenne Sears about 2 months ago. It's just a beast of a battery. My F250 V10 has never had it so good. Oh, and I saved some serious money too. Thanks for the tip! ELN

[goodtimes]

I was doing a little testing earlier today...and thought I would pass this along.

My diehard platinum marine ran my cheap chinese MV-50 air compressor for 4 hours (continuous) before the battery voltage dropped to 11.5 volts (the target for the testing I was doing). Not bad for a $189 battery...

[AFSOC]

My diehard platinum marine ran my cheap chinese MV-50 air compressor for 4 hours (continuous) before the battery voltage dropped to 11.5 volts (the target for the testing I was doing). Not bad for a $189 battery...

Impressive battery performance for sure but I am far more impressed with the "cheap chinese" air compressor. That little torture test should dispell some of the myths about the MV-50's durability. I am not certain the MV-50 was intended to be a 100% duty cycle tool...nice to know it has the stones to do it though.

[goodtimes]

Impressive battery performance for sure but I am far more impressed with the "cheap chinese" air compressor. That little torture test should dispell some of the myths about the MV-50's durability. I am not certain the MV-50 was intended to be a 100% duty cycle tool...nice to know it has the stones to do it though.

Just keep in mind that it was unloaded for the duration...that makes a big difference. It pulled right at 13 amps the whole time, and never really got very hot.

[orangeTJ]

These followed me home the other night:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t271/dohdrz/04%20Rubicon/IMG_0282.jpg

One for Jeep, one for truck.

[ExpoMike]

I just picked up a Diehard Platinum last Thursday night. I knew my Kamparoo trailer was going to need a new battery and I had a yellow top Optima in my Cherokee. Since I have had mixed results over the years with Optima and everyone here seemed to like the Platinums, I put one in the Cherokee and moved my yellow top onto the trailer.

So far, so good. Seems to crank it over without any issues. I guess time will tell but add another to the Platinum group. :friday:

[EXP-T100]

So how are they handling the cold? i just got back to Co. from park city Ut. I was out there for a week for Christmas. it did not get above 32 mostly in the teens. So i now have a red top optima (my bad lol) its 10 months old and dose not like the cold at all. Not only did it barely start each day but yesterday i had to jump it twice!!! Now i am thinking about getting a die hard platinum 34 or 65.

[Backwoods Rambler]

Colorado recently had a cold snap (mid teens for a couple of day) my Diehard never skipped a beat. I had to jump a guy at work twice, although I don't know anything about his battery, except that it looked HUGE! It was a '99 F-150.

[EXP-T100]

Ya what was that 2 weeks ago when we had that -15 day thats when the red top started to go down hill i have never had a battery go south this fast and this is the first "high performance" battery i have bought. :(

[Backwoods Rambler]

I was actually out of town for the -15 day. I would have loved to test the battery in that temp http://www.rockfrogs.org/phpBB2/images/smiles/068.gif

[111db]

I was in Moab camping at Arches Nat Park for the last 5 days/4 nights. Got down to -0- at night, but the Diehard didn't notice. I'll mention I had the fridge running, but obviously due to the cold it didn't cycle much at night.

[kellymoe]

So how are they handling the cold? i just got back to Co. from park city Ut. I was out there for a week for Christmas. it did not get above 32 mostly in the teens. So i now have a red top optima (my bad lol) its 10 months old and dose not like the cold at all. Not only did it barely start each day but yesterday i had to jump it twice!!! Now i am thinking about getting a die hard platinum 34 or 65.

I feel your pain. My truck came with two Optimas. One is dead and will not hold a charge, the other so far has been reliable but I keep my solar panel on the roof rack hooked up on a permanent basis to keep it charged. I'll be heading to Sears soon.

[alia176]

Looks like my Exide Orbital took a crapper. Off to Sears i go!

Are there any discount coupons or such that can be used for the battery purchase?

Thanks.

[fetus]

My stock battery went out on my 05 Xterra, so I went with the Die Hard Platinum size 34. I had to do some modifications to the battery cables but it works awesome. I had a couple of cold morning starts at the carpool at around 27 degrees. Fired right up and with some gusto behind it.

I have just a regular Die Hard in the TJ, thinking of turning it in on a pro-rated Platinum.

They have a $5.00 off coupon exp 1/3/09(print and bring in (http://f.chtah.com/i/5/1194872179/SC_122108_7692.pdf)) and if you can bring the core in, they give a little bit more off. I was out the door for around $201.00.

I had a Optima Yellow Top that barely lasted me two and a half years. I was disappointed because I had such high expectations.

[Beowulf]

It really is too bad that Optimas had to go south. The ones made originally were quite nice. Kind of like the Odysseys are now.

[EXP-T100]

Beowulf you are right on that, years ago a friend of mine had a red top in his heep and it was 5yr old and never had an issue with it but now they just suck.

What is every ones thoughts on the group 65? its a little wider and two pounds heaver but it puts out 930cca or should i just stick with the 34??

[Beowulf]

When it comes to batteries, I say use the largest battery you can. Is it needed.....probably not, but why not have the extra capacity just in case you need it one time.

[EXP-T100]

So its been really nice here in CO. so my red top p.o.s. has been ok untill today went out to start my truck at 11am today and it was 18* out :peepwall:. I did not have a good feeling about it at all, ya barely started. To sears I go, I got the group 65 with 930 cca and now i will just use the red top for my dual battery setup.

[Bighead]

So its been really nice here in CO. so my red top p.o.s. has been ok untill today went out to start my truck at 11am today and it was 18* out :peepwall:. I did not have a good feeling about it at all, ya barely started. To sears I go, I got the group 65 with 930 cca and now i will just use the red top for my dual battery setup.

Funny you should mention this. I went out this morning and tried to start the Land Cruiser with my Optima Red Top primary battery (4 months old) and got nothing. Fortunately I was able to jump it with the Red Top auxiliary battery (dual battery setup). Now I might be looking for a new primary battery once I rule out any other electrical gremlins.

[EXP-T100]

Bighead its you red top they suck, mine still works great if its above 32*(10 months old). And an update from yesterday, this morning it was 10* at my house and my truck fired right up. The battery did not even know it was cold out, talk about peas of mind.

[450 DUDE]

Just installed the marine Platinum in the trailer :wings:
The costco marine $h8t the bed 2 weeks ago on the Yosemite trip , cant really complain 4.5 years of service for $ 70.00. I cant wait to flog the new Die Hard / Odyssey.
ken

[teotwaki]

I installed the Diehard Group 34 on my 3rd Gen 4runner without lengthening the cables. You can see in the pic that the negative reaches, just need to move the grounding point on the fender forward by a few inches. For the postive, I made a 1/4" thick by 3/4" wide by 4.5" long bus bar that bolts between the positive cable and the positive battery lug. I have the rubber cap moved sideways in the pic for viewing access. I drilled and tapped an additional hole in the bus bar for the two wires that at are always "hot" (aux lights & aux fusebox). The red tape you see if aircraft F4 electrical insulating tape.

The holddown is 12.5" long by 1.5" bar stock. I used the factory J bolt on the back side. I (unsuccessfuly) used some foam tape on the underside of the holddown, you can see in the pic that the heat and vibration caused it to migrate.

I put 200 seriously jarring offroad miles on it last weekend. The bus bar worked as planned. I need some kind of heavy rubber backing on the holddown bar to further reduce any battery movement due to vibration.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v416/111db/4Runner/MogollonRim008.jpg

The positive bus bar is exacty what I had thought of doing. Nice!

[111db]

Ah, I should update this. After I bought my fridge I removed the bus bar and found that a Battery Brain (http://www.batterybrain.com/batterybrain.pl) fits that same spot perfectly and still provides the needed extension for the positive lead. Of course the Brain functions as an automatic battery disconnect should the battery voltage ever drop below starting voltage. But, my bus bar made its way onto another 97 4Runner and as far as I know still works fine.

I had to modify that hold down bar too.

<edit> a year and a half later... a crappy iphone pic to add

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v416/111db/4Runner/034c6f61.jpg

[teotwaki]

Hey 111DB, I was inspired by your bus bar... :victory:

I bought a Diehard P2 Group 65 at 930 CCA and 135 RC

To make the terminal layout work I cut a copper bar to 4.5" x 0.75" x 0.25" to act as a positive bus bar. I drilled two holes in it and covered part of it with shrink tube.
Some Fuzzy Fotos
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6710/battery002.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=battery002.jpg)

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9730/battery003.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=battery003.jpg)

I also had to buy some longer tie down rods and cut one to length. I found a heavy duty ground strap and added some shrink tubing to it also. The OEM terminal for the battery post is covered in some shrink wrap.
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5659/battery005.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=battery005.jpg)

OEM Battery
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9418/battery001.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=battery001.jpg)

[teotwaki]

When it comes to batteries, I say use the largest battery you can. Is it needed.....probably not, but why not have the extra capacity just in case you need it one time.

Don't you have to consider the alternator's capacity to recharge the battery?

[calamaridog]

Odyssey will have a PC1500 34R soon, which means that Sears may soon have a group 34 with the terminals reversed for the Toyota application.

[alia176]

Don't you have to consider the alternator's capacity to recharge the battery?

This of a battery as a bathtub - you can fill it faster with a fire hydrant hose or slower with a garden hose. If you use up a lot of the battery's reserve (winching for ex), you can still top it off on the way home! A larger capacity battery will simply take longer to top off.

[teotwaki]

-----snip--------------
A larger capacity battery will simply take longer to top off.

Example: Heavy winching may deplete the battery much much faster than your ability to recharge the battery in time for the next use of the winch.

My question was meant to point out that you have to consider the whole electrical system when making any changes. You may not be able to wait for the long drive home to very slowly recharge your battery.

[alia176]

Ah yes, you're correct. You do have to consider the whole electrical system. My general rule agrees with one of the previous poster: get the biggest battery you can fit in the tray. Regardless of how large or small the alternator puts out, you'll have plenty of reserve left to start up and go home with a large capacity batter. This can be achieved with a single or dual battery system.

Cheers.

[t0mills]

I just bought a Diehard Platinum this past Saturday at my local Sears.

I got the biggest one they had and installed it in my Suburban yesterday. I'm hoping it will be a good battery!!

Sears does guarantee it for 4 years, or they will replace it for free. I paid $189 for it.

[devinsixtyseven]

Some notes...

"Marine" use and deep cycling...95% vs 80% vs 50% and internal construction explained a bit (http://www.yachtsurvey.com/boat_battery_basics.htm)

Quick Odyssey spec sheet (http://www.odysseyfactory.com/battspecs.html)

Also note regarding the Odyssey batteries, they'll take a huge current inrush, but with a maximum voltage. Over that voltage and they're effectively ruined. IIRC it's 15V (I could be wrong, please check rather than assume I'm right!), which is why the Odyssey-specific chargers are fixed-voltage and they don't recommend using a regular charging setup. There's a post over on either TS or TTORA where a guy used a standard charger which put out a few tenths over 15V and ruined a new battery.

The extra $ for an Odyssey vs DH Platinum appears to be dependent on model--threaded brass terminals, metal jacket, different handles, form factor. For the 1500 (which does not have a jacket option), the DH certainly does look to be the better buy. They are both made in Missouri.

The jacket appears to be a tight-fitting sheetmetal shroud around the sides of the battery, glued in place, and gives the battery a very uniform shape...even easier to mount than it already was.

That's all I can tell looking at the one I have. The person I've been trying to talk to @ EnerSys is hard to reach :).

-Sean

[teotwaki]

Ah yes, you're correct. You do have to consider the whole electrical system. My general rule agrees with one of the previous poster: get the biggest battery you can fit in the tray. Regardless of how large or small the alternator puts out, you'll have plenty of reserve left to start up and go home with a large capacity batter. This can be achieved with a single or dual battery system.

Cheers.

There is one DieHard model from the Marine series that is roughly 1100 CCA but it weighs 75 pounds! It was also another $50 US and physically wider.

[Loober]

Art the Diehards dry cell like the odessey?

[teotwaki]

Art the Diehards dry cell like the odessey?

Yes, but a little more on that answer! :)

Odyssey batteries are "dry" cells only in the sense that they do not have liquid acid sloshing around. They are all of the AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) variety.

[ExpoMike]

Well, I still need to check things out but it is seriously looking like my Platinum battery might not be holding a charge. It is coming up on 1 year old and on our Death Valley trip we had one start that I wasn't sure it was going to crank. It did start on the second try but was a slow crank at that. The rest of the trip it worked but I was worried about things. At first I thought it might be the starter going bad but now I am thinking a battery.

Yesterday we went to drive the Jeep and it almost did not crank over at all. I noticed at rest the battery was showing on the gauge about 12v. When I crank it would drop to about 9v which is definitely a problem. It finally cranked and started on the second try.

I am going to do more tests this week but just throwing out a heads up. If it is the battery, I will give Sears one chance with a replacement. If I have problems with it, it will be returned and I will go with something else.

More to follow later.

[teotwaki]

You'd want to be prepared with your own tests on the charging system. I'll bet Sears will want to do tests on your ride before they pony up any refund or replacement. Having your own facts would be handy if they make any hasty conclusions

[ExpoMike]

Oh yes, I will know for sure what the problem is before I go to Sears. I'll be taking a bunch of measurements and see if I can get a load tester too.

Now if it would stop raining. :D

[alia176]

I am going to do more tests this week but just throwing out a heads up. If it is the battery, I will give Sears one chance with a replacement. If I have problems with it, it will be returned and I will go with something else.

More to follow later.

Sorry to hear that Mike. Do you have a charger that can handle a gell battery? Normal chargers will not work on these batteries due to the low internal resistance. If not, maybe your local Sears can analyze it for you and then do a complete charge on their fancy machine. The warranty is pretty killer on these batteries so I wouldn't think Sears would have any issues with replacing it, once they find the problem themselves.

[goodtimes]

I'd have it tested by either Sears, or a auto parts store (most of them will load test it for free -- including the initial charge if it needs it). Just gotta drop it off and give them time to charge it.

It's much easier than trying to figure out a testing protocal of your own.

[ExpoMike]

Sorry to hear that Mike. Do you have a charger that can handle a gell battery? Normal chargers will not work on these batteries due to the low internal resistance. If not, maybe your local Sears can analyze it for you and then do a complete charge on their fancy machine. The warranty is pretty killer on these batteries so I wouldn't think Sears would have any issues with replacing it, once they find the problem themselves.

My question would be why would I need any charger? If my altenator is working correctly (which I will verify) and I have driven long enough to charge a good battery, why should I need to have any external charger at all?

The Jeep sat for a week after being driven 6 hours with one stop for fuel. Earlier that day it had more than 5 hours of run time. I would think it was well charged with 11 hours of run time over a 14 hour time frame.

I am worried this is going to be another Optima scenario. Promises of a good battery but without the backing of it. I am curious how many others with the Platinum have had them 1 year or longer?

I do need to verify it is not a starter or alt. going out (which seems less likely now then a week ago). I need a battery that I KNOW is going to start each and every time, unless I do something stupid like leaving the lights on. A great warranty means nothing when you are 50 miles into the middle of nowhere, no cell service and AAA just laughs when you give them GPS cords, assuming you can even contact them. I don't mind replacing a battery every 4 years regardless of condition, just so I know I won't have a failure but it seems that I get about a year out of one before it becomes questionable. Not a good feeling when you leave for a trip.

I think if this is replaced and I have problem with a second one, it will go back and I will look at a Deka brand next.

[ExpoMike]

I'd have it tested by either Sears, or a auto parts store (most of them will load test it for free -- including the initial charge if it needs it). Just gotta drop it off and give them time to charge it.

It's much easier than trying to figure out a testing protocal of your own.

Difference is, I trust me, I don't trust them. I have been working on cars longer than some of those yo-yo's have even been alive. Plus, they are testing the battery only, I want to make sure my alt. and starter are tip-top and not a cause of a problem. I also want to make sure I don't have some "dark current" draining things. I'll make sure my end is up to snuff and then let them do "their thing". :ylsmoke:

[adventureduo]

One of my Diehards was doing the same thing. I tested it, charged it, tested my alternator... whole nine yards. Took it to Sears, they did their test on it and said it was fine. (by the way, if it tests fine, THEY WILL NOT REPLACE IT,, even if its a dead cell, you can test that) Anyhoo, it ended up being a bad ground after a week of tearing my dual battery system apart. Something to think about.

[ExpoMike]

One of my Diehards was doing the same thing. I tested it, charged it, tested my alternator... whole nine yards. Took it to Sears, they did their test on it and said it was fine. (by the way, if it tests fine, THEY WILL NOT REPLACE IT,, even if its a dead cell, you can test that) Anyhoo, it ended up being a bad ground after a week of tearing my dual battery system apart. Something to think about.

Will be checking wiring as well. Something could have come loose but I have upgraded all the cable to 4 gauge so hopefully that is all still good and tight but thanks for the heads up.

[alia176]

My question would be why would I need any charger? If my altenator is working correctly (which I will verify) and I have driven long enough to charge a good battery, why should I need to have any external charger at all?

.

That's typically where I start my battery/alternator troubleshooting steps. start with a fully topped off battery and then go from there. If the batt doesn't hold a charge from a household charger, then you are pointed to the battery. However, is the batt bad from the beginning or did something in your vehicle cause it to go bad?

If the battery holds a charge, passes the load test then you're looking under the hood for the culprit.

Anyway, just a suggestion.

[Hltoppr]

Just put two Odyssey batteries in my 70 with a National Luna system...did great on ten days through Baja....

-H-

[Co-opski]

I would like to give a public thank you to Sears for their customer service on my Diehard P-5. My friend borrowed my truck after I purchased the battery and it was in the back of the truck. He drove with the tail gate down and the battery fell out and the case broke. Sears replaced it that next day. Thankfully no one was hurt and it makes me think twice about whom I let drive my truck now.

XJMike~
I hope they (Sears) are as good to you as they were to me.

[teotwaki]

I thought that I had an issue with my 8 month old yellow top second battery. It turned out that the selector switch that controls the battery selector solenoid went bad. I only found it after eliminating all of the other components in the system. The green LED would light when set to dual battery but the solenoid coil was not getting reliably turned on.

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9656/switchsz0.jpg

[ExpoMike]

Just wanted to give an update to my starting problem.

About 2 weeks ago I did some checking and voltage looked good, alt. output volts were good. I did find one slightly loose body ground from the battery to the body but the one to the engine block was tight. Tightened the loose one hoping things would be okay.

Let it sit for a few days, when out to start it and still, having the same problem like the battery was low. Well, between Christmas and New Years, too many things going on for more testing so it sat.

Today I needed to get this solved before our trip in two weeks. I decided that I would replace the starter since the voltage at rest and running were in the correct ranges. Since this looks like the original starter, it has 102,000+ miles on it. Found that NAPA carries brand new starters (I have not had good luck with remanufactured ones) so I picked one up. Swapped it in and now it cranks over like it should. Starts right up repeatedly so I am thinking this was the problem.

I think between the high mileage and the oil filter adapter which has been leaking onto the starter, it just cause it to finally start to fail. Now on to changing the o-rings on the oil adapter... which is a PITA on Cherokees.

I will follow up with any battery related problems should I have any but for now, it is looking like the Platinum is solid.

[TACODOC]

One of my Diehards was doing the same thing. I tested it, charged it, tested my alternator... whole nine yards. Took it to Sears, they did their test on it and said it was fine. (by the way, if it tests fine, THEY WILL NOT REPLACE IT,, even if its a dead cell, you can test that) Anyhoo, it ended up being a bad ground after a week of tearing my dual battery system apart. Something to think about.

99% of the electrical problems I've ever encountered were caused by a bad ground... :coffee:

[ExpoMike]

99% of the electrical problems I've ever encountered were caused by a bad ground... :coffee:

Guess I got the 1% that wasn't a bad ground... bad starter. :elkgrin:

[TACODOC]

guess i got the 1% that wasn't a bad ground... Bad starter. :elkgrin:

ymmv ;)

[nosivad_bor]

I had my 3 month old Platinum PM-2 / 34M battery start giving me issues. I thought it was something i did, so I jumped it, but over time it kept giving me issues.

I finally gave up and took it into sears before the big storm so that the truck was sure to work.

Sure enough it was a bad unit.

Odd part is I was having performance issues with my truck where it was missfiring badly and running like ****. I couldn't figure it out and since its not a daily driver was not too concerened and figure I'd sort it out in the spring.

Since I've changed the battery the rough running thing has gone away, this was fairly significant too.

[Expedition Key]

Are you guys running Deep cycle Platinum group 34, or the regular? I'm buying two tomorrow (deep cycle) and I'm curious as to why some might be running the regular cranking battery. According to my Sears guy, they are the same CCA (880)

Thanks,

Kye

[Radio]

99% of the electrical problems I've ever encountered were caused by a bad ground... :coffee:

You betcha! I don't know if I would say 99%, but it is definatly in the 90+% range!

[MoGas]

I had my 3 month old Platinum PM-2 / 34M battery start giving me issues. I thought it was something i did, so I jumped it, but over time it kept giving me issues.

I finally gave up and took it into sears before the big storm so that the truck was sure to work.

Sure enough it was a bad unit.

Odd part is I was having performance issues with my truck where it was missfiring badly and running like ****. I couldn't figure it out and since its not a daily driver was not too concerened and figure I'd sort it out in the spring.

Since I've changed the battery the rough running thing has gone away, this was fairly significant too.


It may have just been incidental because the computer would reset with the battery being disconnected.

[SOAZ]

I just ordered up my new Die Hard Sears Platinum Group 31.

I'm feeling pretty lucky since I just spent the day exploring alone, with Danica. I never shut the truck off which was extra lucky.

I get back into town after a long day and stop at the store for a bottle of wine and I needed a jump start to get going again! YIKES!

This Lifeline batter did pretty well. It made it in Scott's old Tacoma to the artic circle and then powered my 4runner for three years of use with a fridge on 24 seven in Phoenix. Now that's not too shabby. May she rest in piece. :victory:

[adventureduo]

99% of the electrical problems I've ever encountered were caused by a bad ground... :coffee:

Well, here's an update. They gave me a new battery. Yep. It must have had a bad cell. It load tested fine. It showed proper voltage. All tests showed fine on the truck side. I finally took the truck in and showed them. Otherwise they will refuse to replace it. They tossed a new one in and the truck fired right up in front of them.

The weird thing is, i bought both batts the same day and the other one is working fine still.

Always an exception the rule i guess.

[goodtimes]

Both of my batteries were replaced yesterday.

The deep cycle (house) battery would drop to less than 12.4 volts within a minute or two of shutting the engine off, with no load on the battery. The starting battery would drop to just under 12.6v under the same conditions.

The shop manager at Sears said "it's a 12v battery, it has 12.4v, it's fine". FWIW, 12.4v is ~80% charge, and when you consider that you don't really want to drop them below 50%, that 80% of total charge is 60% of usable charge -- not the condition you want your house batteries in.

I didn't raise *that* big of a scene (although I really wanted to).

Later that day, I received a call, asking if I could bring the batteries back in the following evening. I did -- and they replaced them both.

They were both just under 2 years old. Not a great record . . .

[1speed]

Both of my batteries were replaced yesterday.

The deep cycle (house) battery would drop to less than 12.4 volts within a minute or two of shutting the engine off, with no load on the battery. The starting battery would drop to just under 12.6v under the same conditions.

The shop manager at Sears said "it's a 12v battery, it has 12.4v, it's fine". FWIW, 12.4v is ~80% charge, and when you consider that you don't really want to drop them below 50%, that 80% of total charge is 60% of usable charge -- not the condition you want your house batteries in.

I didn't raise *that* big of a scene (although I really wanted to).

Later that day, I received a call, asking if I could bring the batteries back in the following evening. I did -- and they replaced them both.

They were both just under 2 years old. Not a great record . . .

Bummer, I was leaning toward these to replace my almost 8 year old Optimas in the Dodge. I really feel like I need to replace my batteries before heading to the Expo next month but I can't decide what to buy. :(

[Rockcrawler]

Makes me want to go check the voltage on mine... I have 2 in the Dodge for the starting batteries that I got around the same time that Goodtimes got his.

[lostworldexpedition]

I am not sure if I should start a new thread, but here goes.
Both of my batteries were replaced yesterday.

The deep cycle (house) battery would drop to less than 12.4 volts within a minute or two of shutting the engine off, with no load on the battery. The starting battery would drop to just under 12.6v under the same conditions.

The shop manager at Sears said "it's a 12v battery, it has 12.4v, it's fine". FWIW, 12.4v is ~80% charge, and when you consider that you don't really want to drop them below 50%, that 80% of total charge is 60% of usable charge -- not the condition you want your house batteries in.

I am having similar problems with my "house" battery. In order to trouble shoot we spent the last few nights at a campground in Cancun. We plugged the Engel into an AC source, we avoided using any lights powered by the house battery to avoid loads and proceeded to fully charge the battery. It is a Sears Platinum group 31 deep cycle battery and after it is "fully" charged it drops to 12.5v within a half hour. I admit we inadvertently allowed the battery to drop to below 10v a couple of times due to poor supervision on my part (before we got a solar panel to keep it topped of).

Have I killed this battery? Anyone? I was going to write to Mario at AT to ask him for help, when I found this thread... if any of you guys have any ideas please share. We are not planning on going back to the U.S. so I may not be able to get Sears to replace the battery.

Thank you.

[wrcsixeight]

Hard to say if you have killed it, but anytime it is drawn down deeply, some capacity is lost, the amount of loss depends how far down, and how long it remained there and the quality of the battery to begin with.

By what method are you "fully charging" the battery? When you are charging with this charger, what is the voltage?

Flooded Batteries are happiest when they are charged at a minimum of 5% of their capacity. The solar gurus say 5 to 13% for maximum battery longevity. I am not sure about AGM's, but I think a minimum of 5% would still be accurate. A 100 watt panel is about 5 amps. A group 31 battery about 130 amp hours. So you are near or below the 5% threshhold when charging that one battery, and that is when the fridge's compressor is not running off of the solar charging battery, and you have the panel aimed directly at the sun during midday.

My point is that your panel is offsetting your useage, but never really fully charging the battery the way it would like to be charged. If your Isolator parallels the batteries when it sees charging voltages, the solar panel is then trying to charge both batteries, making the auxiliary battery even less happy.

To really see how much life is left in the battery, you can perform a load test, which by it's nature is detrimental to the battery.

They say a battery is 50% charged when it's resting voltage is 12.2 volts. This varies with the battery brand by about 0.1 volts. You could see how much the voltage drops with a known load, such as your Engel fridge. Fully charge the battery, remove the solar panel, and turn the Engel on it's highest setting so it has a continuous duty cycle,drawing either 3 or 3.5 amps per hour depending on your model. See how long it takes before the voltage dips to 11.8. Then remove the loads from the battery, and see of the voltage bounces back up to 12.2 within 20 minutes and do some math.

Professional battery load testers basically do the same thing but with a higher load. They apply a known high load to a hopefully charged battery, They program in the size of the battery and see how much the voltage drops under that load in a certain amount of time. The less drop, the healthier the battery.

There are procedures called equalization and desulphating that some claim to rejuvenates abused batteries. Equalization basically is a controlled overcharge bringing all the cells within the battery to their full charge, because over time they will start to vary. This is not recommended with AGM batteries, but I have seen procedures for doing so on LIFELINE brand AGM batteries, by the manufacturer. Desulphation is supposed to dissolve the lead sulfate that has built up on the plates back into the electrolyte, freeing up material on the plates so they can again pass electrons.

There are strong opinions on both sides of the fence as to whether this works or not.

[lostworldexpedition]

Thanks for that thorough and prompt reply.

I am charging the battery with a West Marine 15amp "intelligent charger" that has an AGM setting. It starts charging at high amp low voltage and then reverses that as the charge nears the end. Seems to work.

I have only had the panel a couple of weeks now and it charges only the house battery. Since we have had it we have not had much of a problem, and being on the road it is hard to do troubleshooting. I will see what I can do, but my options are fairly limited. New battery is way beyond our means at the moment and another panel even more so :) I guess we will have to keep on keeping on as we are.

I still havent even figured out where or how to mount the panel... but I believe it is time to start a new thread... sorry for the hijack Dave.

Thank you.

[SunMan]

Mild Hijack here.

Went into Sears yesterday to get a Die Hard Platinum as my stock battery in my 2006 Tundra was acting up. They said they don't make a group 27f for my Tundra yet and the the Die Hard International was what was recommended for my rig. Anyone have any experience with the Die hard International, good, bad or indifferent? It still seems like a good battery (710CCA) and saved me $50 so i'm not all that bummed.

[dzzz]

Mild Hijack here.

Went into Sears yesterday to get a Die Hard Platinum as my stock battery in my 2006 Tundra was acting up. They said they don't make a group 27f for my Tundra yet and the the Die Hard International was what was recommended for my rig. Anyone have any experience with the Die hard International, good, bad or indifferent? It still seems like a good battery (710CCA) and saved me $50 so i'm not all that bummed.

I doubt it's made by Odyssey. Is it AGM?
The short CCA of a regular starting battery is technically higher than odyssey, but it won't be under less than ideal conditions.
The Odyssey/Sears Platinum can go to 20% 400 times. A new O/SP battery will hold an adequate starting charge for two years if kept at room temp or below. Way different than a regular starting battery.

I believe other sears battery are "wet" batteries. Starting AGM batteries are better for us, especially for vehicles that sit some of the year.

(O/SP isn't a great house battery, not enough amp hours)

[SunMan]

Correct, not an AGM battery therefore prolly not an Odyssey. My rig is my DD so it won't be sitting. Use a blue top as my house battery in my FWC.

Understand we are talking apples to oranges here, just wondering if anyone has had experience with the International. Hijack off.

[Co-opski]

I put a DH International in my '85 m5 and it never let me down. I don't have any numbers or facts but it work for me.

[Outback]

The Sears "Platinum" Die Hard is an Odyssey battery. They are made for Sears by Odyssey Mine in my snocat is an AGM and has the same CCA as the same size Odyssey I had in my identical snowcat. Now the sears regular Die Hard is not an Odyssey. You have to get there 'PLATINUM" series Die Hard.

[Outback]

Another member found this and posted it on the bottom of page one on this thread. This about says it all!



David:

That is a very astute observation. We private label the Sears DieHard
Platinum batteries and they are rebadged Odyssey batteries.

Thanks.

Kalyan Jana

Development Support Manager - Specialty Markets

Desk: (660) 429-7505

Cell: (816) 308-1543
Fax: (660) 429-1758

www.enersys.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Niethammer, Carlene
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 6:42 AM
To: Jana, Kalyan
Subject: FW: Website Visitor Comments / Inquiry



-----Original Message-----
From: db@ilikecoconuts.com [mailto:db@ilikecoconuts.com]
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 6:57 PM
To: Niethammer, Carlene
Subject: Website Visitor Comments / Inquiry


Comments
Hello,

I recently discovered the Sears DieHard Platinum line of batteries and I
noticed they look identical to the Odyssey line. Is there a difference
between the two?

Thanks for your time.

David Baker

[teotwaki]

Mild Hijack here.

Went into Sears yesterday to get a Die Hard Platinum as my stock battery in my 2006 Tundra was acting up. They said they don't make a group 27f for my Tundra yet and the the Die Hard International was what was recommended for my rig. Anyone have any experience with the Die hard International, good, bad or indifferent? It still seems like a good battery (710CCA) and saved me $50 so i'm not all that bummed.

I made mine work for my 4th Gen 4Runner based on 111db's idea. (Don't raise the bridge, lower the water.....) :victory: Diehard P2 Group 65 at 930 CCA and 135 RC

To make the battery's reversed terminal layout work I cut a copper bar to 4.5" x 0.75" x 0.25" to act as a positive bus bar. I drilled two holes in it and covered part of it with shrink tube.
Some Fuzzy Fotos
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6710/battery002.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=battery002.jpg)

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9730/battery003.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=battery003.jpg)

I also had to buy some longer tie down rods and cut one to length. I found a heavy duty ground strap and added some shrink tubing to it also. The OEM terminal for the battery post is covered in some shrink wrap.
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5659/battery005.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=battery005.jpg)

[dzzz]

I hope Kalyan is still employed. :)

[SunMan]

I made mine work for my 4th Gen 4Runner based on 111db's idea. (Don't raise the bridge, lower the water.....) :victory: Diehard P2 Group 65 at 930 CCA and 135 RC

To make the battery's reversed terminal layout work I cut a copper bar to 4.5" x 0.75" x 0.25" to act as a positive bus bar. I drilled two holes in it and covered part of it with shrink tube.
Some Fuzzy Fotos
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6710/battery002.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=battery002.jpg)

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9730/battery003.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=battery003.jpg)

I also had to buy some longer tie down rods and cut one to length. I found a heavy duty ground strap and added some shrink tubing to it also. The OEM terminal for the battery post is covered in some shrink wrap.
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5659/battery005.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=battery005.jpg)

Almost went that route (using a different model battery), they said they could "make it work" and I almost went for it but the anal retentive side of me opted to go with the correct fit. I really wanted to buy the best but in the end i think i wound up with an above average wet battery. Plus I always have my house blue top as a back up.

[DarkHelmet]

I made mine work for my 4th Gen 4Runner based on 111db's idea. (Don't raise the bridge, lower the water.....) :victory: Diehard P2 Group 65 at 930 CCA and 135 RC

To make the battery's reversed terminal layout work I cut a copper bar to 4.5" x 0.75" x 0.25" to act as a positive bus bar. I drilled two holes in it and covered part of it with shrink tube.
Some Fuzzy Fotos
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6710/battery002.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=battery002.jpg)

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9730/battery003.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=battery003.jpg)

I also had to buy some longer tie down rods and cut one to length. I found a heavy duty ground strap and added some shrink tubing to it also. The OEM terminal for the battery post is covered in some shrink wrap.
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5659/battery005.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=battery005.jpg)

Good stuff! I just picked up the same battery for my 2005 Tacoma based on your post. However, I did something a little different for the factory wiring:

1) A 0.75" x 0.25" copper bar was $37.00 + S&H for the shortest piece I could find (12") to make the bus bar like you did.

2) I'm not much of a fabricator. I know, not hard to cut and drill a piece but...

3) I have concerns with your Ground configuration. You are now running all of your high current starting amperage through the little skinny wire between the factory ground point on the fender and negative battery cable. It will probably be OK but...

I searched high and low online for an option that was easy and cost effective. I looked at having new custom battery cables made that were a few inches longer (PITA!). I thought about just mounting the battery on its side (did that for a day just to get me up and running). Finally I found it.

http://www.remybattery.com/Departments/Cable--Accessories/Adapters-and-Hardware/Conversion-Adapters.aspx

I purchased their "Top To Side Terminal Conversion Cables" (part# 5505) and their "Side Terminal To Top Post Adapters" (part# 5515) and essentially made myself some 7" extension cables for both the positive and negative terminals.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/resqman2398/5df8e125.jpg

Total cost delivered was $33.45 and there is no cutting, drilling, fabricating at all.

I used a couple cable clamps to secure the cables to the top of the battery just to keep them from flopping around. Added bonus, the terminal clamps on the conversion cables have bolts long enough to mount my winch power cables directly to them. The guys that installed my winch originally put my negative cable to the chassis ground location on the fender - same issue of high current through the little skinny wire between there and the battery.

Hope this helps others by giving them a quick and easy option for using a non-standard battery in the Taco/4Runner.

- DH

[Overland Hadley]

I searched high and low online for an option that was easy and cost effective. I looked at having new custom battery cables made that were a few inches longer (PITA!). I thought about just mounting the battery on its side (did that for a day just to get me up and running). Finally I found it.

http://www.remybattery.com/Departments/Cable--Accessories/Adapters-and-Hardware/Conversion-Adapters.aspx

I purchased their "Top To Side Terminal Conversion Cables" (part# 5505) and their "Side Terminal To Top Post Adapters" (part# 5515) and essentially made myself some 7" extension cables for both the positive and negative terminals.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/resqman2398/5df8e125.jpg

Total cost delivered was $33.45 and there is no cutting, drilling, fabricating at all.

I used a couple cable clamps to secure the cables to the top of the battery just to keep them from flopping around. Added bonus, the terminal clamps on the conversion cables have bolts long enough to mount my winch power cables directly to them. The guys that installed my winch originally put my negative cable to the chassis ground location on the fender - same issue of high current through the little skinny wire between there and the battery.

Hope this helps others by giving them a quick and easy option for using a non-standard battery in the Taco/4Runner.

- DH


Great solution. Thanks for posting this information.
Will be using these parts when I get a new battery.

[benedmonson]

O.K., my eyes are bleeding after reading all 10 pages of this thread! My 80 needs a new battery so I'm trying to figure out what Platnium to put into it. Thinking I'm going to go with the Group 65 for the added CCA's! I just installed the National Luna Portable Power Pack last week and went with the Group 31 Marine Platnium so trying to keep all of the batteries close to the same. This thread is just another reason why the portal is so good!!!

[Hedge]

The Group 31 Marine Platinum will fit in the FZJ80 tray with a few tweaks. There are few threads on 'mud about how to do this.

[Mlachica]

The Group 31 Marine Platinum will fit in the FZJ80 tray with a few tweaks. There are few threads on 'mud about how to do this.

Yup, some minor trimming on the battery itself, replace the hold down bracket and longer j-bolts. I plan to replace my lifelines with these when they wear out...

[Maximus Ram]

So , it seems that I am in need af a new batery for the Dodge. The 6 year old Optima has developed a couple of "splits" in the - post and is liking to corrode the posts. The battery still tests good, but I don't want to have it give up the ghost at a critical moment.
I am looking at the Diehards Platinums, but they don't seem to make a top and side post battey any more...or am I missing it somewhere ? I need the side post mounts for the winch , other wise I would go with the standard group 34 ....

Anyone know if they make the 34/78 battery still ?

[gmookher]

byw,


http://www.muddyoval.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=71885&sid=1ff3b0a530ce5d7d9117b116977b954c


this is really old news kids: Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:01 am

[Antichrist]

I am looking at the Diehards Platinums, but they don't seem to make a top and side post battey any more...or am I missing it somewhere ? I need the side post mounts for the winch , other wise I would go with the standard group 34 ....

Anyone know if they make the 34/78 battery still ?Looks like the P-4 that I have isn't available right now.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02850090000P
There are reports of side terminals not being up to supporting a winch draw. I don't know if it's true, or internet rumors.
Unless you have a lot of stuff connected to your battery, if you use mil-spec terminals you should be able to connect everything to the top posts.
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss215/rover_driver/RoverParts/Electrical/mil-spec_battery_term.jpg

[Maximus Ram]

Thanks for the link , Tom. But unfortunately it says that they are temporarily unavailable.:mad:
I have some of the military side connects for when I can get the new luged cables...unfortunately the battery went before I could afford the cables, too...

[Albin]

Don't connect a winch to the side terminals, it's not a internet rumor - I've seen pictures of at least two fried batteries due to this. Also, look at the FAQ section for Optima, they'll tell you the same thing.

[Maximus Ram]

Don't connect a winch to the side terminals, it's not a internet rumor - I've seen pictures of at least two fried batteries due to this. Also, look at the FAQ section for Optima, they'll tell you the same thing.

Interesting..I had not heard that before, so I did a search and sure enough..it seems that it is not recommended. But I am finding where some are saying it is ok with the DH Platinums...wonder if their side mounts are stronger...

[shogun]

Thanks for the link , Tom. But unfortunately it says that they are temporarily unavailable.:mad:
I have some of the military side connects for when I can get the new luged cables...unfortunately the battery went before I could afford the cables, too...

There are two of them on the shelf at the Tucson Sears. No tellin how long they've been there though.

[Antichrist]

Interesting..I had not heard that before, so I did a search and sure enough..it seems that it is not recommended. But I am finding where some are saying it is ok with the DH Platinums...wonder if their side mounts are stronger...I know Optima says don't do it, I meant a rumor about other brands.
My guess is that it's ok with Platinums since they are just re-badged Enersys (Odyssey). A call to Enersys would answer the question for sure. I'll see if I can find the email I had from an Enersys engineer when I was trying to confirm for myself they were the same. If I have it I'll ask.

[elmo_4_vt]

So , it seems that I am in need af a new batery for the Dodge. The 6 year old Optima has developed a couple of "splits" in the - post and is liking to corrode the posts. The battery still tests good, but I don't want to have it give up the ghost at a critical moment.
I am looking at the Diehards Platinums, but they don't seem to make a top and side post battey any more...or am I missing it somewhere ? I need the side post mounts for the winch , other wise I would go with the standard group 34 ....

Anyone know if they make the 34/78 battery still ?

The group 31 has two sets of posts up top that work for me for standard terminal connection and winch/accessory connection... Although I'd never heard about the issue with winch power from the side posts... Don't think it would apply to this battery though since the posts are literally about 1.5" from each other, and would assume part of the same lead structure.

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=304156513691&id=3d2ae1286afd71df5f6e6e255ef8b40b&index=ch1

[Antichrist]

Couldn't find the email so I went ahead and gave the person a call I talked to before. Didn't get her, so left a message asking about side terminal connections and high drain applications. Will post soon as I hear back.

ok, this is the reply I got
In reply to your voice message... There is no reason why you cannot connect to and use the side posts for high amp draws. They are made of brass, not lead and are rated for the same output as the top posts.

[Albin]

Couldn't find the email so I went ahead and gave the person a call I talked to before. Didn't get her, so left a message asking about side terminal connections and high drain applications. Will post soon as I hear back.

ok, this is the reply I got

Ok, good to know.

And another reason to buy Odyssey/Platinum Diehards vs Optimas. I'm no longer a fan of Optimas having lost two in the last two years.

[Antichrist]

Even if I were looking for an Optima type battery, I'd go with the Exide instead, which is what I did in 2001. When they finally needed replacing I went with the Platinum though. If not the Platinum I'd have stuck with the Exide as I had good service with them.

[Maximus Ram]

Even if I were looking for an Optima type battery, I'd go with the Exide instead, which is what I did in 2001. When they finally needed replacing I went with the Platinum though. If not the Platinum I'd have stuck with the Exide as I had good service with them.

That a wet battery not AGM, right ?

[MoGas]

That a wet battery not AGM, right ?

He may mean the Exide Orbital (http://www.remybattery.com/Departments/Extreme-Performance-Batteries/Exide-Orbital-Battery.aspx).

Dave

[Maximus Ram]

Thats funny...all of them and I mean all of them (optima,exide,DH) are all priced at 189...so the price doesn't seem to come into play here..

[Antichrist]

He may mean the Exide Orbital (http://www.remybattery.com/Departments/Extreme-Performance-Batteries/Exide-Orbital-Battery.aspx).

DaveYup, that's what I meant.

[Johnston]

Looks like they just raised their price $10. $199.

[Maximus Ram]

Dang, the Diehard Plats jumped 20 bucks in a week.
Guess that way they can drop them 20 for Black Friday:Wow1:

[Xterabl]

Well, given the destruction of the US dollar, anything commodity related will probably continue to increase in price for the foreseeable future.

This kind of sucks, because I really want the DieHard Platinum, but my Optima Yellowtop auxillary battery refuses to kick the bucket. I guess I bought it before Optima quality went to krud.

But, what if I buy the DH Platinum and just shelf it until my Optima dies...maybe 1-2 years? Is there any issues with that as far as the battery performance in the long term? (short term draining while it's sitting on the shelf is not an issue since this would not be my starting battery, and would re-charge once I installed it and drove 'round a bit)

Any thoughts?

[wrcsixeight]

Batteries have shelf lives. Do not buy one before you need one. You wont be saving money with a battery that has lost a portion of it's capacity just sitting undercharged. Perhaps if you were to keep it on a float charger, but over 2 years that could add 20 bucks to your electric bill.

AGM's do not self discharge very much compared to Flooded, but they will still sulfate and lose capacity.

My buddy has a 8 year old optima still in the plastic, and refused to believe it was no good anymore. " It's still new!!, never used!!" he kept muttering.

5.42 volts does not lie. We got it charged up with the parallel battery method. Put it on a desulphating AGM charger/ conditioner for a week, and 6 hours after it was removed from the charger. 11.7 volts. 24 hours 9.7 volts. 48 hours 6.7 volts.

[will]

Dang, the Diehard Plats jumped 20 bucks in a week.
Guess that way they can drop them 20 for Black Friday:Wow1:

Ever notice this always seems to happen soon after its reviewed in OJ?

[Corey]

Ever notice this always seems to happen soon after its reviewed in OJ?
I am picking up that P-4 tomorrow if it fits my dual battery tray.

[Xterabl]

Thanks, wrcsixeight.
But I gotta wonder...surely when I go to a store and pick up a battery...there's a good chance it's been sitting there a while. So I wonder, what then is a good rule of thumb for max "buy before use" time -- 3 mos? 6 mos? 8 mos?

[Antichrist]

Here's some useful info...assuming it's correct. lol
http://www.allpar.com/fix/batteries.html

[Corey]

Bummer, spent the last two hours at Sears.
No Platinum or Gold Diehard will fit my Blue Torch battery tray (http://bluetorchfab.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=1).

He threw a bunch of different batteries at it, and no go.
The tray would have to be modified quite a bit.

Going to suck up to Optima again and get a Yellowtop, despite hearing how bad they are and my own experience with mine going to 10.5 volts a year later.
Maybe I will get lucky this time.

He also said I should not use a Platinum Diehard for the starting battery when the Toyota one dies later, but I see many do use a P-1 or a P-5 with no problems.

[Antichrist]

The Platinum is the only one made by Enersys. The Gold isn't.
You might want to look at the Exide Orbital rather than Optima. When I got mine, they spec'd out better than Optima. CCA/RC/Warranty/Price

[Corey]

Thanks, I think what I will have to do is call up the guy at Blue Torch Fab and see what else fits.
I would hate to mail order a battery or even pick one up at a store and not have it fit.
The tray I have was specifically made to fit a Yellowtop.

[Beowulf]

I would like to hear why they think the Platinum should not be used as a starting battery. I have used mine for a year now and have not had any problems. Plus, I have never heard mention of this from anyone else on the platinum or the odyssey.

[Antichrist]

I've been running a platinum P-4 since Feb of '09 and it starts the car as well now as it did when just installed.

The guy at Sears may have been talking about one of the Marine ones. Common wisdom says a deep cycle shouldn't be used as a starting battery.
On the other hand the longest life I've ever gotten from a battery was a Sears Diehard Deep Cycle I had in my Lightweight and used for both starting and winching, all of it in VT/OH/WI. I think that battery lasted me about 8 years or more.

[Corey]

Yes, I told him I wanted to put the P-5 in the stock location like other FJ owners are, and he said deep cycle, so may have been thinking of the marine one.

He said the deep cycles do not do so well if just sitting there and not getting used like my Optima one is.

I explained to him though that Painless Wiring's dual battery kit states to not hook anything upto the secondary battery at all, and to hook winches, lights, ect to the stock battery only.

I know, it sounds weird, but that is the way the Painless instructions state to do it, then if you run your primary battery down (fridge on to long for an example) you can flip the in cab switch to the secondary battery and fire up the rig.

My Painless kit lets me select a position on the three way switch too that will charge the secondary battery when you are driving.
Plus I use the solar setup too to keep the main battery charged when camping.

I did contact Torch Fab on the battery box I have, so hopefully I will hear back tomorrow to see if I am stuck using another Optima in that box or not.

For sure though I am going with a Platinum P-5 in the stock location later.
Coming up on five years this July with the stock battery, and sometimes it is a little sluggish starting it on a cold morning.

[wrcsixeight]

Thanks, wrcsixeight.
But I gotta wonder...surely when I go to a store and pick up a battery...there's a good chance it's been sitting there a while. So I wonder, what then is a good rule of thumb for max "buy before use" time -- 3 mos? 6 mos? 8 mos?

All batteries have date codes when they were manufactured. It is usually stamped into the plastic case, and might need some deceiphering. Some like wal mart put stickers on them when they were last charged. It is certainly a good thing they occasionally charge them, but I've seen 3 month old stickers on them, so even if they did charge it to near 100%, after 3 months a flooded battery could be in the 70 to 80% range from self discharge alone, and be sulfating.

Usually, trying to save money on batteries doesn't work.

I was in a west Marine store. They were having a sale on AGM batteries. I checked the date code, 14 months old, and put a voltmeter on it. 12.37 volts.

Even at half price, I would not have bought one of those batteries.

Deep cycle batteries can certainly start a vehicle, but they should be at least 30% physically larger to provide similar cold cranking amps.

I have one wally world dual purpose/ marine/trolling.rv/"deep cycle" battery in my engine compartment. It is over 3 years old now and is no longer cycled. I also have 2 deep cycles Crown's. The 2 crowns turn the engine over significantly faster than the Everstart, even when depleted to 60%.

[Corey]

I spoke with Les Schwab Tires who I have dealt with for eons about my situation running the second battery as a starting battery only per Painless's instructions, and he said then my Yellowtop (deep cycle) is the wrong one to use.

The correct one to use is the Redtop which is a starting battery, makes sense since I never run down and recharge the second battery, it is only used in case I drain the main battery which as all the goods (winch, CB, HAM, fridge, Maggiolina light) hooked to it.
The solar setup I run (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28712) takes care of recharging the stock battery.

A good choice when my Toyota battery dies is to replace it with a deep cycle Platinum Diehard.

Looks like I will be getting a Redtop this coming weekend to replace the Yellowtop.

[Corey]

Optima is in.
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=753822#post753822

Also my bad, the Diehard Platinum is not really a deep cycle I do not think like I said earlier.
Either way, I am going with the Platinum P-5 before to long to replace my stock Toyota battery.

[Maximus Ram]

Yep, looks like when I can afford it, I'll be getting the group 35 p-5 battery for the Dodge. But that will mean that I need to upgrade the cable to a set that will accomadate the military connectors I have for it.
Maybe they'll have a black friday deal on them .....:coffeedrink:

[Maximus Ram]

Well , went and picked up a Sears Platinum tonight. Got the 34/78. It has top and side terminals. And it was only 199 , not the 209 it shows online, so that was a plus. 8 year warrenty and 4 year free replacement.
My question is, since they recommend that the side mounts not be used for accessories because off the continuos load on them, so what if I used the side mounts for the battery cables and used the top posts for the accessories using my military style lugs to attach them ? Possible ? Good/Bad ? Maybe ?

[Ludedude]

Deep cycle batteries can certainly start a vehicle, but they should be at least 30% physically larger to provide similar cold cranking amps.

.

My Platinum PM-1 has 1150 CCA. I think it should be fine as a starting battery. :coffeedrink:

[Antichrist]

My question is, since they recommend that the side mounts not be used for accessories because off the continuos load on them, so what if I used the side mounts for the battery cables and used the top posts for the accessories using my military style lugs to attach them ? Possible ? Good/Bad ? Maybe ?Did you check with Enersys to see what they say about side terminal loads? I know on many batteries they aren't up to snuff for things like a winch, but since the Enersys batteries are marketed as a heavier duty battery they may be ok.

As for your question, there shouldn't be any issue hooking things up as described. Or just everything on the top posts.

[Maximus Ram]

Did you check with Enersys to see what they say about side terminal loads? I know on many batteries they aren't up to snuff for things like a winch, but since the Enersys batteries are marketed as a heavier duty battery they may be ok.

As for your question, there shouldn't be any issue hooking things up as described. Or just everything on the top posts.

Sounds like a plan..I'll check their site. Thanks.

[Maximus Ram]

Antichrist, just went back and reread the thread. I see where you had already posted an answer to my question.
Guess I'll go ahead and hook it up the same way I had the optima.
Thanks

[NothingClever]

Just picked up a Die Hard Platinum today for my '02 Taco. Price in southern Colorado, USA, as of this post (Dec '10) was $200.

[jeffjeeptj]

Here is a pic of an Odyssey 1700 in my 2003 Sequoia. Minor adjustment of ground cable, and plastic bottom battery holder , IIRC. It was installed in Dec 2005, and has not been cleaned since, neither battery case/area nor terminals. Disregard the custom hold down spacer, that's been in place since Dec 2005, too.
The OEM battery would grow corrosion very quickly, even within the first 6 months of Sequoia ownership, attacking the hold down clamp, and more importantly the underside of the hood (bonnet).
I have seriously drained the Odyssey twice since new. Most recent was in May 2010. Left headlights on for 30 hours. The Sequoia will sometimes sit for 7 - 10 days, even now, with no starting troubles. It does not get a lot of expedition use.
I have a single PC1500, in my Jeep LJ, that I bought in 2007. It sees a winch load, lights on, and small trailer towing/charging. The trailer has a PC2250 and gets a lot of deep cycling (long duration:light/medium load). 2250 is inside trailer box, no corrosion/acid leaks/smell.
I'm really satisfied with Odyssey. I appear to be the poster with the longest duration of ownership, but not Platinum.
HTH

[Redline]

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

I hope my Odysseys last a good 8-10 years. I've got three Odyssey PC1750s that have been installed since March 2008. Two in a 1996 Power Stroke Diesel that sits most of the time with very occasional use, and one in my '06 4Runner that currently only has a single battery system and gets plenty of use.



...'snip

I appear to be the poster with the longest duration of ownership, but not Platinum.
HTH

[HenryJ]

I finished my further testing of the Optima YellowTop in my old truck and did not find it worth keeping. They resist discharge and the reverse as well. In order to attain a full charge (12.9V) periodic charging with a 120V battery charger was needed. My charging system was enhanced well beyond stock condition and far exceeded the needs required, yet still was unable to fully charge the battery under normal use. It just seems to be the nature of that battery as I found the same situation when using their batteries in the past. The New Mexico built batteries were supposed to be the "answer", but it does not seem to have worked out that way in my testing. I still have three of the older optimas in service and serving me very well, but my hardcore faith in their new batteries is lost.

I did more research recently and came close to buying an Odyssey PC1500DT. Having a hard time finding a large enough dual terminal battery for my trailers power box (http://www.s-10crewcab.net/HenryJ/trailer/Power.JPG) online, it seemed like the thing to do. The price gap between the Diehard Platinum and Odyssey has closed in the last year. The savings is not what it once was. Warranties are the same with four years full replacement. The Diehard is $40-$50 less $$ still.

I bought two Diehard Platinum dual terminal batteries in the last month.
The first was a second battery for the truck. Purchased online:

http://www.s-10crewcab.net/HenryJ/Avalanche/dualbattery/dualbat2.JPG

It is a 75/86DT which is now the only dual terminal battery Sears offers for sale online. $209 to my door.

Getting ready for spring I needed to replace the trailer battery that found its way into the truck as my main battery.

http://www.s-10crewcab.net/HenryJ/Avalanche/dualbattery/isolator2.JPG

A trip to the closest Sears Automotive center found three on the shelf. These are the 34/78DT, a twin to the Odyssey PC1500DT. Larger than the 75/86DT and offering a better reserve capacity. The price on the shelf was $199. I had to pay Idaho sales tax on top of that.

Lesson learned? Shop local and check there first. Online may be convenient, but "buying locally" keeps the people who support your community employed. The price even with tax was very close and I got a bigger battery.

Seems a little crazy to be spending that kind of $$, but I came across some "mad money" from sold vehicle parts and decided to reinvest. I am now three platinums strong and ready for exploring this spring!

[radio_jumper]

i have an odyssey pc1500 as my primary battery in my fj cruiser. I installed it last may along with a yellow top optima in a dual bat setup. The odyssey is no longer holding a charge and I have to jump with the optima if I leave the fj sitting for more than a few hours.

I purchased the odyssey online and the only dealer in my area is batteries plus, but they wont swap it out since i didnt buy from them.

Odyssey support has been top notch. They are sending me a replacement.

This being said, had I got the rebranded dihard sears would have swapped it out no problem. So my next battery purchase will no doubt be what ever I can get local that has national support, that puts dihard on the top of my list.

[benedmonson]

Just an FYI and not to bash any brand here. I had two Sears Diehard Platinums installed in Oct. 2010. One went into my National Luna Portable Power Pack which was the Sears Diehard Platinum Marine Group 31. During my 6 week trip to Baja it ran the fridge non-stop and did extremely well. I kept it charge while setting with my 60 watt foldable solar panel. The cranking battery was a Sears Diehard Platinum P-5. during the second week of our Baja trip it just killed over while setting on a remote beach. Thankfully I was able to use my National Luna Portable Power Pack to jump myself and run the vehicle without any problem. I drove to Loreto and found a very small replacement battery with reversed post for $59.00 USD. It only had 440 CCA's, but would get me through the rest of my trip and home to Colorado.

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k546/benedmonson68/Baja%20Trip%20for%20Equipt%202010/_MG_2977.jpg
New battery in Baja with custom tape/wood lift beside dead Sears Battery

Well now I'm home and took the dead Sears Diehard Platinum battery to Sears where it tested BAD. They replaced it promptly without and problems and let me get a larger battery instead. They didn't up charge me since the new P-2 battery cost the same as the P-5.
My question now is how to install the larger battery with non-reversed terminals into my FZJ80??? I saw the conversion cables listed in this thread, is this the best way to go?

[Antichrist]

My question now is how to install the larger battery with non-reversed terminals into my FZJ80??? I saw the conversion cables listed in this thread, is this the best way to go?The best way is to use cables of the correct length. It's just a matter of if you want to spend the money.

[zimm]

Just an FYI and not to bash any brand here. I had two Sears Diehard Platinums installed in Oct. 2010. One went into my National Luna Portable Power Pack which was the Sears Diehard Platinum Marine Group 31. During my 6 week trip to Baja it ran the fridge non-stop and did extremely well. I kept it charge while setting with my 60 watt foldable solar panel. The cranking battery was a Sears Diehard Platinum P-5. during the second week of our Baja trip it just killed over while setting on a remote beach. Thankfully I was able to use my National Luna Portable Power Pack to jump myself and run the vehicle without any problem. I drove to Loreto and found a very small replacement battery with reversed post for $59.00 USD. It only had 440 CCA's, but would get me through the rest of my trip and home to Colorado.

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k546/benedmonson68/Baja%20Trip%20for%20Equipt%202010/_MG_2977.jpg
New battery in Baja with custom tape/wood lift beside dead Sears Battery

Well now I'm home and took the dead Sears Diehard Platinum battery to Sears where it tested BAD. They replaced it promptly without and problems and let me get a larger battery instead. They didn't up charge me since the new P-2 battery cost the same as the P-5.
My question now is how to install the larger battery with non-reversed terminals into my FZJ80??? I saw the conversion cables listed in this thread, is this the best way to go?

i would take this opportunity to mount a battery disconnect solenoid.

[benedmonson]

i would take this opportunity to mount a battery disconnect solenoid.

thanks Meh.
I should have posted earlier that I went ahead and moved the Sears Die Hard Platinum Marine from my National Luna Portable Power Pack to use as my cranking battery. It fit with the small shaving mod perfectly. I put the P-2 in my PPP. As far as the disconnect soleniod, I have the solenoid in my PPP which I can control to connect or disconnect. Is this what you are talking about?

[zimm]

thanks Meh.
I should have posted earlier that I went ahead and moved the Sears Die Hard Platinum Marine from my National Luna Portable Power Pack to use as my cranking battery. It fit with the small shaving mod perfectly. I put the P-2 in my PPP. As far as the disconnect soleniod, I have the solenoid in my PPP which I can control to connect or disconnect. Is this what you are talking about?

i was thinking you were worried about stock cable lengths reaching the posts. myself, i like to be able to break the electrical connections to entire truck, so i was suggesting you add a "kill" switch to the short positive cable and extend it in that manner. i may have misinterpreted your setup.

funny though, the batter talk made me go out to start the fj40 thats been sitting for a month. turns out my dual battery solenoid must have fried and grounded out without me knowing. i have two bone dead platinums (5v). im not even gonna attempt to revive them.

back to sears they go. technically it wasnt a problem with the batteries, so i'll post up if the return is successful. i really hope so, they were only 2 years old.

i think the flaw in my setup, is its the "painless" style, where one battery is in reserve and the belleview winch feeds off of the main. the solenoid was getting fussy, and i think it occurred b/c i had grouped the batteries while yanking logs on a friends property. winching thru that solenoid was an issue in my head that i sort of.... said meh to.... except for that flaw (i think all designs have one) i like the setup concept. so.. instead of a redesign im gonna hit the problem with a hammer and use a PAC 500 solenoid. for 68 bucks we'll see if i can kill it. if that fails ill just hit the eaton UPS parts catalog and procure something big and bitchin'. :)

[teotwaki]

i was thinking you were worried about stock cable lengths reaching the posts. myself, i like to be able to break the electrical connections to entire truck, so i was suggesting you add a "kill" switch to the short positive cable and extend it in that manner. i may have misinterpreted your setup.

funny though, the batter talk made me go out to start the fj40 thats been sitting for a month. turns out my dual battery solenoid must have fried and grounded out without me knowing. i have two bone dead platinums (5v). im not even gonna attempt to revive them.

back to sears they go. technically it wasnt a problem with the batteries, so i'll post up if the return is successful. i really hope so, they were only 2 years old.

i think the flaw in my setup, is its the "painless" style, where one battery is in reserve and the belleview winch feeds off of the main. the solenoid was getting fussy, and i think it occurred b/c i had grouped the batteries while yanking logs on a friends property. winching thru that solenoid was an issue in my head that i sort of.... said meh to.... except for that flaw (i think all designs have one) i like the setup concept. so.. instead of a redesign im gonna hit the problem with a hammer and use a PAC 500 solenoid. for 68 bucks we'll see if i can kill it. if that fails ill just hit the eaton UPS parts catalog and procure something big and bitchin'. :)

Sears may request that you bring in the vehicle to see if it is at fault for 2 dead batteries. Let us know what happens after you bring the batteries back!

[zimm]

Sears may request that you bring in the vehicle to see if it is at fault for 2 dead batteries. Let us know what happens after you bring the batteries back!


i walked in with two. one came up on their charger and the other didnt, so they charged the one and gave me one new.


now heres your lesson....

... i couldnt keep my mitts off the batteries that night. i just HAD to hit one of the agms with an old starter/charger set at 50 amps to drag it up to 11.2, then i put my agm charger on it.

i "saved" it.... doh... welll.... ive got 2 years left to kill it. i made it my primary and i see some logging in its future. i want it out.

i have it 90% rewired ripping out the PO's stupid ****. im haveing neighbor don make me a fake astray blanking plate where im going to put some switches and LED indicators

[Herbie]

Sorry to dredge up a waning thread with a slightly tangential question, but I'm not finding the info I'm searching for:

Can anybody comment on the necessary charging voltage for these Diehard Platinum batteries?

Coming from the industrial battery space I'm used to being able to see data sheets with all kinds of charge vs. temperature, etc. specs for any battery we use. Even the AGM deep cycles sold to the solar/wind customers tend to have pretty good documentation, but since I'm planning to use one of the PM-1 Platinum batteries as the house-battery in my van project, I'm a bit concerned about making sure I can get the battery fully charged.

The short form of my question is: Will this battery (http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02850131000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1) be adequately charged off of a normal alternator voltage (~14.1 or so), assuming a healthy alternator, etc.?

Thanks.

[wrcsixeight]

I'd say goto the Odyssey website for charging voltage specifics for any DHP battery.

Do not fall into the category of those who took one voltage reading at idle with a fully charged battery and believe that their alternator charging voltage is always the same.

The maximum charging voltage might be the same but the charging voltages will change with engine rpm and battery state of charge.

When my batteries are fully charged with the engine running, I will see 13.7. When they are low and being charged I might see 13.2 at idle but 14.7 at higher rpm.

It is not a constant or instant voltage thing, but very variable.

[cruiseroutfit]

Odyssey does have battery specific chargers they recommend with a different charging profile than a standard auto battery charger:
http://www.odysseybattery.com/chargers.html

[dwh]

When my batteries are fully charged with the engine running, I will see 13.7. When they are low and being charged I might see 13.2 at idle but 14.7 at higher rpm.

x2. On my Ford camper van, I've seen as high as 14.8v.



Normal automotive alternator/voltage regulator setups don't usually get a battery truly up to 100% charge. It gets close, but it won't hold the voltage up to do a real absorption stage.

Those chargers on the Odyssey site are true 3-stage chargers that will hold the voltage up for a few hours (absorption stage) before dropping down to 13.6v for the float.

You can buy aftermarket voltage regulators that will do a proper 3-stage, but they are pricey and not really needed.


You should take a voltage reading with either a partially depleted battery, or with a good sized load on, like the lights and a/c both. Run the rpms up to highway speed and see what you get. If your charging system will crank out 14.6v or more, then that's about as good as you can expect and is fine for an AGM battery.

(Though it wouldn't hurt to occasionally top it up fully with one of the 3-stage chargers.)



Plain old automotive type chargers (and most older RV converter/chargers) are generally constant voltage - they just put out a voltage like 12.6v, 13.2v, or 13.6v and allow the battery to absorb whatever amps it can. A dead battery has a high resistance, so at first you generally only see a couple of amps, then as the voltage of the battery rises, the resistance goes down and more amps flow. As the voltage approaches the voltage that the charger is putting out, the amp flow starts dropping down again.

The big problem is that those voltages are "resting" voltages - where the battery should be after it's been fully charged and then allowed to settle down. That's the voltage range that a 3-stage charger will drop down to to "float" the battery indefinitely. Since those constant voltage chargers don't take the battery up to 14.4v or 14.7v or so (and hold it there a good while), they never do get that battery to 100% charged.

An alternator/regulator setup will generally take the battery up to a higher voltage, so they do get the battery "more full" than a regular old constant voltage charger, but since they don't hold it there for the absorption stage - not as full as a true 3-stage charger.

[Herbie]

Great info dwh, that pretty much confirms my expectations (and concerns). It seems if one is using such AGMs and needs them to be fully charged you either need (a)periodic access to mains power and a proper charger, (b) some sort of high-voltage alternator and the rest of your auto-electronics suited to match, or (c) some sort of voltage-boosting DC-DC charger.

Not sure if (c) exists on the scale we're talking about here. In the embedded electronics world where I function, we have many projects where we charge a 14v NiCd off of a 12v supply using a variety of "charge pump" or other circuits, but these are decidedly low amperage applications...

[dwh]

Great info dwh, that pretty much confirms my expectations (and concerns). It seems if one is using such AGMs

Not just AGMs - any lead-acid battery.

In terms of charging, the main difference between AGMs and regular flooded lead-acid is that the AGMs can handle a lot more charge/discharge current (amps) without damage. The charge voltages are pretty much the same either way. Gels have slightly different (lower) charging voltage specs, but AGMs and FLAs are pretty much the same.



and needs them to be fully charged you either need (a)periodic access to mains power and a proper charger, (b) some sort of high-voltage alternator and the rest of your auto-electronics suited to match,

Any old alternator will put out sufficient voltage (if the rpms are high enough), but you need a special voltage regulator/charger unit if you want to hold the voltage up for a length of time (absorb stage). Like these:

http://sterling-power-usa.com/proregd12volt24voltadvancedalternatorregulator.asp x
http://sterling-power-usa.com/alternatortobatterychargers.aspx



or (c) some sort of voltage-boosting DC-DC charger.

Not sure if (c) exists on the scale we're talking about here. In the embedded electronics world where I function, we have many projects where we charge a 14v NiCd off of a 12v supply using a variety of "charge pump" or other circuits, but these are decidedly low amperage applications...


Oh sure, there are plenty of DC-DC converters for charging lead-acid batteries. Here's a couple:

http://www.powerstream.com/DCC.htm
http://sterling-power-usa.com/sterlingpowerusabatterytobatterycharger.aspx

[Spur]

My Platinum PM-1 has 1150 CCA. I think it should be fine as a starting battery. :coffeedrink:

I wish I would have known about the extra CCA requirements for using a deep cycle as a starting battery before I purchased my platinum 1150. I'm on my third one in less than 18 months. The stock battery for my 92 cummins engine was 1100 CCAs. Single battery, not duals like a lot of modern diesels. When I bought the truck it had an optima yellow top that failed right around the time I did the engine swap so I went with the die hard platinum marine. It was the only battery they had with that high of CCAs. The latest failure was fairly catastrophic. It leaked and now there is significant corrosion on my battery tray. So much for them not leaking.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do now. I like the idea of getting two die hard platinums and hooking them up in parallel, but space is tight and that would be about $450!!!! Compare that to an 1100 cca battery from O'Reilly for $130.

[rambrush]

When I went to Odssey's website this is the info they have for the 92 cummins. I am partial to Odssey and my twin 1200's are doing great.

Year1992
MakeDodge
ModelW350
Engine5.9 Liters 359 CID L6
BCI Group Size30H
ODYSSEY MODEL25-PC1400T
Pulse (5-second) Hot Cranking Amps (PHCA)1400
Cold Cranking Amps (CCA)740
20Hr Nominal Capacity (Ah)60
Reserve Capacity Minutes100.00
Dimensions
L x W X H - Inches9.46 x 6.58 x 8.69
Metric Dimensions
L x W X H - mm240.3 x 167.1 x 220.7
Weight (lbs)50.00Weight (kg)22.70

[Spur]

When I went to Odssey's website this is the info they have for the 92 cummins. I am partial to Odssey and my twin 1200's are doing great.

Year1992
MakeDodge
ModelW350
Engine5.9 Liters 359 CID L6
BCI Group Size30H
ODYSSEY MODEL25-PC1400T
Pulse (5-second) Hot Cranking Amps (PHCA)1400
Cold Cranking Amps (CCA)740
20Hr Nominal Capacity (Ah)60
Reserve Capacity Minutes100.00
Dimensions
L x W X H - Inches9.46 x 6.58 x 8.69
Metric Dimensions
L x W X H - mm240.3 x 167.1 x 220.7
Weight (lbs)50.00Weight (kg)22.70

Thanks for the info. I looked at the website myself and I'm a little confused. That would be undersized. I guess they assume two batteries in parallel but they make no mention of it.

[rambrush]

Not sure on that but a quick phone call to them may verify it.

[SChandler]

Thanks for the info. I looked at the website myself and I'm a little confused. That would be undersized. I guess they assume two batteries in parallel but they make no mention of it.

On the 89-93 Cummins/Dodge trucks, the factory battery configuration was a single Group 31 with an 1150CCA rating. The information that Odyssey has listed for the 89-93's is actually the battery rating for 94 and up Cummins/Dodge trucks. When Dodge changed body styles they went to a dual parallel battery set up on the Cummins trucks.

I have two 1st Gen Dodges: a 90 and a 92. Both have a single Group 31 battery. They both run a Les Schwab branded replacement that has "only" 950 CCA and neither one has a hard time starting, even down to about 15*F.

[111db]

A little followup performance info:

06-2008 - Original Group 34 Diehard Platinum purchased
10-2011 - Replaced for free
04-2012 - The replacement battery then suffered an early death after just 6 months(!?) Again, replaced for free with just 2 months left on the original 48 month free replacement term.