Test Drove a JK Today...

[TACODOC]

... and I liked it. Yep, you heard it here first, I'm seriously considering it.

Now, my Tacoma is out in the drive way mad at me...

Too bad the engine AND the MPG in the JK is so... unimpressive.

I love just about everything on the new 4 door JK Rubicon except for the engine, and that is a show stopper for me.

The frame is fully boxed, the axles are stout, it has tractor gears and lockers, disc brakes all around, and real skid plates.

If it becomes available with a CRD or something more fuel efficient I will be helpless.

Anyone know when they will offer some different engine options other than the bland Dodge Caravan 3.8 V6?

[ExpoMike]

I'm with you Dave. Better engine and I'll have to seriously look at getting one. Had a 4 door on Maui and a 2 door on Kauai and like the overall package. Really liked the 4 door as a replacement to our Cherokee.

Come on Jeep, put a decent engine in it. :ar15:

[CA-RJ]

Don't feel too bad, we're seriously considering a 04-06 LJ. I hope my 4Runner doesn't find out!

I wouldn't even consider an JK unless it had a better engine combo, but can you imagine what a diesel JK would cost? $30k + easily.

[WFTW]

AEV offers a diesel swap. That is, if you want to swap it out yourself.

Other than that, word on the street is a few years before they change engines...but you know how the word on the street is. I'll believe they'll be doing an engine change when I see it, and not before.

The engine is lacking. While it's not bad for stock, it makes a difference when you start adding weight, a lift, larger tires, etc.

I've tried to work around it with a Magnaflow exhaust, True Flow air intake, throttle body spacer, re-gearing, etc. If I had the money, I'd just drop in a better engine. But, after what I just spent on front and rear axles, that won't be happening anytime soon.

[WFTW]

...can you imagine what a diesel JK would cost? $30k + easily.

A JK Rubicon is already $30K+.

[TACODOC]

The ones I looked at ran around $34,000... but there is no way I would pay sticker :sombrero:

[HMR]

I hear ya Dave. I'm trying not to go over to Gear's house anymore. Seeing his Rubicon is hazardous to my retirement account.

Just keep picturing the 4-door we saw broke down on the side of the road in DV. That should hold you over until the new engine gets approved. :sombrero:

[FourByLand]

Hmm...

JKDOC... WranglerDoc...

Doesn't work for me.

:)

[TACODOC]

Hmm...

JKDOC... WranglerDoc...

Doesn't work for me.

:)

Yeah, but neither does DiscoDoc, RoverDoc, LandieDoc...

In the end I'm just Doc :)

[FourByLand]

... Not just Doc...

TACODOC!

Dave... I hope your truck doesn't know what's going on in your head!

Yours either Jeremy.

:shakin:

[Streakerfreak]

How does FJDOC sound:peepwall:

[FourByLand]

How does FJDOC sound:peepwall:

Oh Phil... now that's just wrong.

:sport_box

[Streakerfreak]

Oh Phil... now that's just wrong.

:sport_box


:elkgrin: I'm sorry, I just could not help myself.

[TACODOC]

How does FJDOC sound:peepwall:

Oh, you guys know how much I just LOVE the FJ Cruiser :smilies27

Blind spots, funky doors, odd styling, bulbous tail lights...

But hey, thats just my personal observations - no "model bashing" here.

[Streakerfreak]

When and if Jeep puts a better engine in the JK, will you be trading out the Tacoma or do you plan on having two rigs?

[TACODOC]

When and if Jeep puts a better engine in the JK, will you be trading out the Tacoma or do you plan on having two rigs?

Good question.

IMO, the Tacoma rules in power, comfort, and road trip manners.

The JK rules in axles, gearing, frame, and sexy topless action :p

[Scott Brady]

I have 5.13s in the Rubicon now, with stock tires. It has plenty of power. Now when I put on 33s or 35s and 1500 lbs of camper and gear, it will likely feel underpowered.

However, it will feel exactly the same as my Tacoma did - adequate.

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

And soon, you'll be able to add Dana 60's from Mopar performance. Now coupled with a diesel and I'm ready to go.

[HMR]

Yours either Jeremy.

:shakin:Oh no... don't get me started...

You and Richard are equally responsible for my bad case of Rover Envy!

[cruiseroutfit]

And soon, you'll be able to add Dana 60's from Mopar performance...

Really? I don't stay up to date on the Jeep news, but that is a truly remarkable upgrade. Will it be a real D60? Or a D60 center section with sub-par outers like previous "upgrades" have offered? Regardless the D60 center would be a bullet-proof base to build from. Interested to hear more about this.

[MuddyMudskipper]

WOW Doc! Lucky for your Taco the Jeep motor doesn't fit the bill.


Oh no... don't get me started...

You and Richard are equally responsible for my bad case of Rover Envy!

Who, what, when, where, why? We were just bumbling along minding our own business. :oops:

Oh and if you're in the neighborhood rumor has it something special is going on at the Cars and Coffee meet this Saturday.


Just wanted everyone to know that Saturday, May 3rd is the Land Rover 60th Anniversary gathering at the "Coffee and Cars Show" at the PAG building (Premier Automotive Group) in Irvine.

Inside sources say that Land Rover will have about 10 Land Rover owned historic vehicles on display to celebrate the 60th anniversary. This is a great opportunity to let Land Rover know that there is a huge Land Rover culture out there that loves their Rovers.

A lot of the Land Rover Big Wigs will be there so I say a great way to show our support is to show up in mass to this once in a lifetime event.

BRING YOUR ROVER!!!! Tell your friends, tell your neighbors, tell people you don't even know, Go tell it on the mountain, tell your Mom,....OK so I'm getting a little carried away.

We need to bring Every kind of Land Rover Imaginable from the obscure and rare to the off-road ready to the street machine to the plain Jane mall Rover.

If you are planning on going GET THERE EARLY. I'm getting there at 5:30am to get a good spot. It starts to get crowded at around 6:15am. It all wraps up around 9:00am. They have a cafeteria that serves breakfast and of coarse, coffee and doughnuts.

The PAG Building is located at 1 Premier Place, Irvine CA. 92618. It is the Ford Building off the 5 Freeway at the Alton Parkway exit.

Let me know if you have any questions otherwise we'll see you early in the morning, Saturday, May 3rd at the 60th Anniversary Birthday Party

Sincerely,
Rich Guzman

Cars and Coffee (http://www.carsandcoffee.info/)

[Life_in_4Lo]

I really like the JK too. I feel the same way as you tacodoc-->3.4 v6... huh?!

they had a solid, torquey i-6 and 'improved' it by throwing in the minivan engine? hmmm.

CRD JK... yikes that is scary tempting I have to admit.

[Streakerfreak]

Oh no... don't get me started...

You and Richard are equally responsible for my bad case of Rover Envy!

Geez, you caught there disease too!

[XXXpedition]

AEV offers a diesel swap. That is, if you want to swap it out yourself.
by the time you've put in all that effort... - you might aswell buy it with the diesel in europe and ship it over.

[Scott Brady]

Really?

Mopar is going to offer bolt-in D60 axles with full D-60 shafts. They are also offering a swap kit for the 2.8L CRD, but I believe that is only for the TJ (could be wrong on that).

[ssmathis]

Funny when I read this since my wife and I are considering getting rid of our Tacoma for a JK. It's the engine that's holding me back as well.

Scott

[Jacket]

Just another case of wanting what you don't have... It's tough to resist the temptation!

[cruiseroutfit]

Mopar is going to offer bolt-in D60 axles with full D-60 shafts. They are also offering a swap kit for the 2.8L CRD, but I believe that is only for the TJ (could be wrong on that).

Wow, thats pretty dang cool. Seem they are wanting their "slice of the pie" so to speak. So many owners are buying a brand new Rubicon and dropping it right off to have he axles, suspension, tires, etc... swapped out by aftermarket shops, they might as well get some of the business.

[Uticon]

I just wanted to add somthing to this thread.
I own a 2007 JK Unlimited Rubicon. Purchased it 5/10/07, just hit 31,000 miles.

The first time i drove one it was an automatic and i hated it. Thing was an underpowered dog.
I then drove the 6 speed manual and liked it alittle more, gave you much more control over the gearing and power.

After i drove mine for a while it, the power seemed to be better. I then learned that it takes about 800 miles for the computer to "learn your driving habits" and adjust accordingly.

Sounds like a bunch of bull but it almost seems like it makes sense now.

I am able to be fully loaded, inside as well as on the full roof rack and pull a fully loaded trailer (about 2500 lbs) and keep up with traffic. Hills are alittle harder and stopping in a hurry is scarry.

If anybody in the SLC area wants to drive mine for comparison to a brand new, low milage JK just let me know.

Overall i have been pretty happy with my JK and like i tell people, "it gets us where we wanna go".

:safari-rig:

[TACODOC]

How many MPG are you averaging?

[Uticon]

I average 20 mpg for daily driving. Thats around town and highway (averaging 80 mph)
I figure you dont buy a Jeep for high speed, cornering or gas milage.
The thing is as aerodynamic as a brick and the roof rack thats on part time doesnt help.

[The Swiss]

I average 20 mpg for daily driving. Thats around town and highway (averaging 80 mph)
I figure you dont buy a Jeep for high speed, cornering or gas milage.
The thing is as aerodynamic as a brick and the roof rack thats on part time doesnt help.Wow, that's not bad! Sure beats the 15mpg I get with the Commander :eek: Are you running stock tires? What size?

[prepmech]

My step-dad gets 18.5 mpg in his JK unlimited sahara, but it is really slow. I've driven it a few times and have been very disappointed, so much that I have decided against buying one. The interior felt cheap to me, and the whole thing had too much plastic on it. The new axles sounded great, until they started having problems with the housings breaking. I ended up getting a WJ to drive for now, waiting for Jeep to fix the issues with the JK before I buy one.

[MoGas]

My neighbor has a 4 door JK and he loves it.

[Scott Brady]

I think anyone who goes from a I6 4.0L to the 3.8L will be a bit disappointed in the power, but it really is way more then adequate and I have seen a constant 17 mpg average (on the gauge) and nearly 20 driving it down from Denver. That is the trade-off.

If you changed from a gen one Tacoma or older Toyota truck, it will feel downright peppy. If you changed from a Land Cruiser, it will feel like a sports car.

It is all perspective...

[MoGas]

I may be confused. Is the JK the 4dr Wrangler?

[Bergger]

If you changed from a gen one Tacoma or older Toyota truck, it will feel downright peppy. If you changed from a Land Cruiser, it will feel like a sports car.

It is all perspective...

I agree completely. My neighbor just bought a JK Unlimited and I test drove it the other day. I've been driving an 03 Tacoma with the 3.4 for the past 5 years and the JK is very comparable to it as far as power. Scott I don't know if I would call it "peppy" in comparison but definitely in the same ballpark. For me I would be completely satisfied with it on the hwy, even here in Colorado. Couple that with up to a 73:1 crawl ratio in the Rubicon and I don't think anyone will have any issues off road. I have no plans to get rid of the Tacoma for at least the next 5 years, told myself I'd have it for 10 when I bought it, but I did try to talk the wife into trading the Xterra for one. She said no and she's the voice of reason. And it makes sense not to. The Xterra is our long distance road trip/light off road vehicle and there is no comparison between the Xterra and the JK in those areas.

[TheGillz]

I may be confused. Is the JK the 4dr Wrangler?

JK is the body designation for all wranglers 07 and newer. Like TJ before, and YJ before that. All Jeeps get given a two letter body designation.

[Gear]

Uticon
I average 20 mpg for daily driving. Thats around town and highway (averaging 80 mph)
I figure you dont buy a Jeep for high speed, cornering or gas milage.
The thing is as aerodynamic as a brick and the roof rack thats on part time doesnt help.

Well I think I should bring the MPG back down to my reality. I have an 07 JK automatic with 5:13 gears and 315/75/16(35" Goodyear MTR's) The only engine modification is an AFE air filter. Here are my current numbers from the Scan Gauge II.

255 miles traveled
29 miles per hour average
8.6 hours of driving
18.4 gallons of unleaded 87 gas used

Drum roll please :rockon:
13.8 miles per gallon.

Oh and if I drive any slower my wife is going to shot me!!!!:eek:

[TheGillz]

MPG, computer says 16ish in town, 21ish on the highway, any time I have cross referenced it with actually comparing a fill up with miles traveled, its consistantly 3mpg less than the computer thinks.

We took a trip across Idaho a couple weeks ago and I'll post what I posted about it on the jeep forum I go to:


I have a good story for you about this estimator feature. Saturday morning we got up at 6 am for some long distance driving around the state of ID, the running tally of my MPG on the computer said 16.4 as my average. That is where it is usually at being driven around the city alot. We fill up and the computer says 334 miles to go. We are taking the freeway but even though the speed limit is 75 I am thinking about milage today more than time, so I set the cruise to 70. 50 miles later the estimator says I have 340 miles to go!! LOL

We run that tank out and fill up after 380 miles takes 20.55 gallons or 18.49 miles per gallon. We were loaded down pretty good, 40 lb tent, three sleeping bags, full cooler, bag of clothes, two bundles of firewood, and a pair 255/70/17 tires on stock wheels, oh and our 100lb Newfoundland puppy. Not too bad considering we were on 4x4 trails for about 50 miles of that leg of the trip.

So when we filled up that time the computer says 380 miles to go. We drive another 395 miles before we are home and the running gas milage tally is up to 19.4 MPG average. It takes exactly 20 gallons or 19.75 MPG for that leg of the trip, BUT

when I look at the estimator after that fill up at says 412 miles!!! So it directly correlates to what the computer has been averaging on the average milage thingy.

Another thing I noticed is that the milage thing must average out the last 500-1000 miles not from the last reset point, because we haven't reset it for at least 5000 miles and we would have had to gotten 30 MPG to bring it up to 19 average from 16 after only 775 miles.

There is my Exhaustive Jeep Computer Milage Test! Or EJCMT.

This was about the estimator feature, but illustrates the point. This trip was 15% off road/dirt road, 20% Freeway, and 65% state highway.

[TheGillz]

MPG, computer says 16ish in town, 19ish on the highway, any time I have cross referenced it with actually comparing a fill up with miles traveled, its consistantly 3mpg less than the computer thinks.

We took a trip across Idaho a couple weeks ago and I'll post what I posted about it on the jeep forum I go to:


I have a good story for you about this estimator feature. Saturday morning we got up at 6 am for some long distance driving around the state of ID, the running tally of my MPG on the computer said 16.4 as my average. That is where it is usually at being driven around the city alot. We fill up and the computer says 334 miles to go. We are taking the freeway but even though the speed limit is 75 I am thinking about milage today more than time, so I set the cruise to 70. 50 miles later the estimator says I have 340 miles to go!! LOL

We run that tank out and fill up after 380 miles takes 20.55 gallons or 18.49 miles per gallon. We were loaded down pretty good, 40 lb tent, three sleeping bags, full cooler, bag of clothes, two bundles of firewood, and a pair 255/70/17 tires on stock wheels, oh and our 100lb Newfoundland puppy. Not too bad considering we were on 4x4 trails for about 50 miles of that leg of the trip.

So when we filled up that time the computer says 380 miles to go. We drive another 395 miles before we are home and the running gas milage tally is up to 19.4 MPG average. It takes exactly 20 gallons or 19.75 MPG for that leg of the trip, BUT

when I look at the estimator after that fill up at says 412 miles!!! So it directly correlates to what the computer has been averaging on the average milage thingy.

Another thing I noticed is that the milage thing must average out the last 500-1000 miles not from the last reset point, because we haven't reset it for at least 5000 miles and we would have had to gotten 30 MPG to bring it up to 19 average from 16 after only 775 miles.

There is my Exhaustive Jeep Computer Milage Test! Or EJCMT.

This was about the estimator feature, but illustrates the point. This trip was 15% off road/dirt road, 20% Freeway, and 65% state highway.

[MoGas]

JK is the body designation for all wranglers 07 and newer. Like TJ before, and YJ before that. All Jeeps get given a two letter body designation.

I got confused for 2 reasons.

I would think the wrangler would be the KJ instead of JK and Scott referred to his and I was thinking of Will and his new Liberty...Too early and not enough :beer: ...I mean :coffee:

[MuddyMudskipper]

I think anyone who goes from a I6 4.0L to the 3.8L will be a bit disappointed in the power, but it really is way more then adequate and I have seen a constant 17 mpg average (on the gauge) and nearly 20 driving it down from Denver. That is the trade-off.

If you changed from a gen one Tacoma or older Toyota truck, it will feel downright peppy. If you changed from a Land Cruiser, it will feel like a sports car.

It is all perspective...

.....and if you changed from a solid axle Land Rover it will feel like Thrust SSC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr0KdxhYgfY).

[durango_60]

. If you changed from a Land Cruiser, it will feel like a sports car.

It is all perspective...

Absolutely, coming out of my 60 I am giddy about going 65 up the passes!:roost:

[madizell]

If all we had to compare to was the Model A Ford, no doubt the current V-6 would seem outright flexy. However, there are any number of excellent power plants in the world these days, so while the amount of available power in any given vehicle is a matter of personal perspective, I think all of our perspectives, individually and collectively, indicate that the current Jeep is under-powered. Certainly no one is raving about the smokin' power of the V-6.

Besides, nearly all of the discussion so far has been about this vehicle on the road. Fair enough since that is where nearly all Jeeps are driven these days. But an engine that delivers adequate power for highway driving will likely deliver the wrong kind of power for off road use, gearing notwithstanding. The current V-6, on paper, makes good power and reasonable torque. Where in the power band does it produce its power? I believe the reason most folks feel the power is missing is because the power that the engine makes, is made too far up the rpm band.

Low end power is more important to off road use, and also contributes heavily to the "feeling" of power under most circumstances. The only way to get that power is with displacement or the rotating mass of a diesel. To a limited extent, Jeep came up with a very fair compromise back in the 60's with the 225 Buick V-6, which coincidentally is 3.7L. They did this by mounting a 52 pound flywheel, which stores enormous energy that makes the motor feel more torquey than it really is, but the engine still makes its power and torque far lower in the rpm range than today's modern versions of the same size engine. This is attributable to the cam and the fact that the old Buick motor is not emission controlled. The result is closer to today's small displacement diesel in terms of how and how much power it produces. Because of the cam timing, the Buick flattens out at about 3,500 rpm, at about the same point that the modern V-6 starts to pull hard.

My new Nissan Frontier suffers from this same problem. It may make more HP than any truck in its class, but the power peak is up there around 3,500rpm to 4,000rpm, way too high for sensible use off road. I have a feeling that the horsepower output at, say 1,600rpm, is down around 50hp. Even with the automatic and low range, it will hardly get out of its own way in difficult terrain. I, too, would say the power is "adequate" but it is certainly nothing to write home about either, and I would rather have more of the 265hp down low where I could use it without standing on the gas. It wouldn't be as brisk while passing at 85mph on the interstate, but it would perform much better otherwise.

Perhaps it is possible to modify the Jeep engine to bring the power down to a more usable range. "De-tune" it so to speak.

[Scott Brady]

With 5.13 axle gearing and a 4:1 t-case, and an automatic, it it an elegant performer on the trail. Everything happens right at or just above idle.

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/earthroamer_XV-JP/rubicon.jpg

[pete.wilson]

Hey

It's too bad they don't offer the 4.7LV8 in the 4door JK, that would be a very good gasoline engine combination and still offer the same gas mileage as it gets now with the V6. You would think they would listen to reason. Maybe advance adapters could work up a kit to install the 4.7L into one......Hint!

Pete Wilson

[calamaridog]

Hey

It's too bad they don't offer the 4.7LV8 in the 4door JK, that would be a very good gasoline engine combination and still offer the same gas mileage as it gets now with the V6. You would think they would listen to reason. Maybe advance adapters could work up a kit to install the 4.7L into one......Hint!

Pete Wilson

I've been ranting from the get-go they put the wrong damn engines in this model. Give the minivan V6 to the Liberty and Nitro and offer the 3.7 and 4.7 truck motors to the JK:mad: The 4.7 was even upgraded recently to be smoother, quieter, more powerful, and more efficient.

I would love to have a 4 door JK with the 4.7L:REOutArchery02:

[TheGillz]

You know I don't honestly know who is doing all the complaining about this engine except overwhelmingly people that haven't driven one more than a test drive. After having one for 10k miles now I have zero complaints. I wheel it and it pulls itself up steep inclines and compression brakes down declines, over boulders and through the mud just fine. I would kindly ask people to reserve the opinions for people that actually use it on a daily basis.

I am a member over at JeepForum.com and there is such a small % of the JK owners that find it inadequate(sp) that it frankly is a non issue, that is only brought up when some TJ or other vehicle guy posts a thread asking about it....

[durango_60]

You know I don't honestly know who is doing all the complaining about this engine except overwhelmingly people that haven't driven one more than a test drive. After having one for 10k miles now I have zero complaints. I wheel it and it pulls itself up steep inclines and compression brakes down declines, over boulders and through the mud just fine. I would kindly ask people to reserve the opinions for people that actually use it on a daily basis.

I am a member over at JeepForum.com and there is such a small % of the JK owners that find it inadequate(sp) that it frankly is a non issue, that is only brought up when some TJ or other vehicle guy posts a thread asking about it....

Well said. I'm a little suprised that on a forum that is usually bashing the "American" need for V8 power we are seeing complaints about a perfectly adequate engine. The only thing that I truly hate when wheeling is breakage, maybe I'm simple minded, but my adequate 3.8 is a lot less likely to cause breakage than a big V8.

[calamaridog]

I would kindly ask people to reserve the opinions for people that actually use it on a daily basis.

Sorry, but no:) I appreciate your feedback related to the engine power, but we all discuss equipment options on vehicles here. I'm not bashing the JK - I think it's the best factory offering for most off highway duties.

If the 3.7L motor was used then the 4.7L family motor would also fit. That would give people the option of having a V8, something many would choose. Consumers like options! I'm a big fan of both of those motors, and so are many Chrysler fans, so of course we wanted to see them in the new JK. These are the truck motors that replaced the old 3.9 V6 and 5.2 V8 motors, and it was believed by most enthusiasts the 3.7L would replace the 4.0 I6 in the new JK.

Also, I don't see the 4.7L as being less efficient in a heavily laden vehicle with big tires - I'm thinking fully loaded with bigger tires, etc.

[Uticon]

My last vehicle was a 2001 Dodge Dakota Quad Cab 4X4 with the 4.7L engine.
I have to totally agree with Calamaridog in that the 4.7 L enine would be perfect for the JK.
All you see is the HEMI swap or people begging for a diesel.
The 4.7 would fit without excessive cutting and reworking, less weight and a time tested and proven engine.



Sorry, but no:) I appreciate your feedback related to the engine power, but we all discuss equipment options on vehicles here. I'm not bashing the JK - I think it's the best factory offering for most off highway duties.

If the 3.7L motor was used then the 4.7L family motor would also fit. That would give people the option of having a V8, something many would choose. Consumers like options! I'm a big fan of both of those motors, and so are many Chrysler fans, so of course we wanted to see them in the new JK. These are the truck motors that replaced the old 3.9 V6 and 5.2 V8 motors, and it was believed by most enthusiasts the 3.7L would replace the 4.0 I6 in the new JK.

Also, I don't see the 4.7L as being less efficient in a heavily laden vehicle with big tires - I'm thinking fully loaded with bigger tires, etc.

[prepmech]

A 4.7L in the JK would be great.

I'm not a big fan of the hemi. From what I've experienced they idle rough, get poor fuel mileage, and have a dead spot in the throttle.

A diesel would be great, if diesel was still cheap and emission regulations were not as strict.

Back to the 3.8L, I have driven nothing but 4.0L jeeps and Ford Powerstrokes for the last four years, which explains my disappointment with the 3.8L.

I'm just hoping that Jeep will come up with something to compete with the H3 Alpha, and the 4.7L would be a great option.