How capable IS a Tacoma?

[XJxplorer]

I am debating on replacing my XJ with a Tacoma.. But, I am a little worried on how capable the Tacoma really is. IF I do get a Tacoma, it will be a 05+ 4x4 single cab.. I would slap on 3" lift and some 265/75/16's.

The Cherokee I used was this.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t270/xbajajeepx/Jack/ForSale_1.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t270/xbajajeepx/Jack/BB_3-1.jpg

It had a 3.5" lift with 31's..

In your guy's opinions, do you think the Tacoma will have as much ground clearance and be as capable as the XJ?

Thanks in advance!!

Mike.

[Super Doody]

what do you consider capable? What trails are you looking to do? Do you mean 265/75/16? I'm thinking single cab 05+ are pretty rare. Might as well just got a 01 to 04 extended cab.

[Scott Brady]

The Tacoma will perform better than the XJ on climbs and at high speed. The XJ will do better in the tight stuff. Both are pretty reliable, but I believe the Tacoma has an edge there.

It is really just splitting hairs. An XJ and Tacoma are two of the more capable platforms available.

So, if you could use the utility of a truck, then it is easy, otherwise just keep that cool XJ.

[XJxplorer]

Yes I meant 265/75/16's.... Well, mostly what I do is travel the backcountry... I don't do anything extreme, but I do like to test the limits sometimes.. I explore a lot of old mining roads, as well...

I have seen quite a few of the single cabs online, and my fiances work has 3 of them on the lot right now. I can get a single cab for about 5-7K less than an access cab and the 4cyl gas mileage sounds nice..

[XJxplorer]

The Tacoma will perform better than the XJ on climbs and at high speed. The XJ will do better in the tight stuff. Both are pretty reliable, but I believe the Tacoma has an edge there.

It is really just splitting hairs. An XJ and Tacoma are two of the more capable platforms available.

So, if you could use the utility of a truck, then it is easy, otherwise just keep that cool XJ.

I have already sold that XJ and drive another stock 4 door xj..

Yeah, it's actually a pretty tough decision.

[Brett M]

I went from a 2 door XJ to a '00 Tacoma TRD and the difference was slight. The XJ had a 4.5" lift, rear Detroit and 4.56's. I took my Taco everywhere that the XJ went in Moab, with no problem other than now and then hitting the frame. Best part it was more comfortable, faster, and better mileage.

I have another XJ now and the only reason is that the Taco killed my budget (in between jobs.) I'd buy another TRD Tacoma anyday......though it'd be a 01-04 double cab this time, TRD of course ;)

[Jacket]

The shorter wheelbase of the single cab is really nice on the trails. I don't believe you can get a single cab with the factory e-locker though, which will slow it down some on technical stuff. The front suspension doesn't flex much, so a locked rear is pretty important to push the truck through tougher terrain.

You slap a couple of ARB's in that thing and it'll go anywhere....

[Purple People Eater]

A biased opinion says: Don't do it! Even a single cab 4x4 Tacoma with a 4 cylinder is gonna be around $20k, I believe. Unless you have an ungodly amount of miles on the XJ and it's causing reliability issues, or you need (I hate using that word in situations like these) a pickup, I would just invest a little more in the Jeep for things that the Toyota has that the XJ doesn't. You've already put so much into it, I can tell, why spend a boatload for a blank canvas?

Reminder, biased opinion.

[XJxplorer]

A biased opinion says: Don't do it! Even a single cab 4x4 Tacoma with a 4 cylinder is gonna be around $20k, I believe. Unless you have an ungodly amount of miles on the XJ and it's causing reliability issues, or you need (I hate using that word in situations like these) a pickup, I would just invest a little more in the Jeep for things that the Toyota has that the XJ doesn't. You've already put so much into it, I can tell, why spend a boatload for a blank canvas?

Reminder, biased opinion.

I don't have the green XJ anymore... I am know driving a stock 01 4dr...

The price isn't too bad, my fiances works at a toyota dealership so I get a pretty good deal... I won't buy the Tacoma new, I can get a trade in for what the dealership paid. So, its either dumping a bunch of money into the XJ, that has 120k miles on it and gets less mileage, or I buy a single cab and do a few things to it with at least half the miles than the XJ.. I would probably put 2k down and dump 3k into it...

[XJxplorer]

Invision a single cab version of this.

http://inlinethumb37.webshots.com/13348/2611481330093498191S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2611481330093498191kKHQkT)

YES! I also forgot to mention the long travel capabilities... I am sure I would eventually convert it.

[Martinjmpr]

Yes I meant 265/75/16's.... Well, mostly what I do is travel the backcountry... I don't do anything extreme, but I do like to test the limits sometimes.. I explore a lot of old mining roads, as well...

Okay, it may be heresy here to ask but why are you going to lift it if that's all you do? I do trails up to 4/5 (on the traildamage.com 1-10 scale) in my 04 Tacoma and it's bone stock, except for the tires.

Should I also mention that my Taco has open diffs front and rear? ;)

For the price of a lift kit you can put a lot of gas into that 4 cyl motor, or you can put the money into other mods that you will get more use out of. Storage? RTT? Shell?

If your lift kit is to fit much larger tires, you might want to reconsider, especially if you get the 4 cyl.

I may be in the minority here but I am a firm believer in the principle of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." :D Although I've toyed with the idea of lifting my Taco, I honestly haven't been in a situation yet where a lift would have been beneficial, and I've been in quite a few where the lift would be detrimental (as in, higher CG which means a greater likelihood of a rollover.)

I might someday get a more responsive suspension, but if it only gets me a 1" or even a 0" lift I'd be fine with that.

I have to ask - have you ever owned a single-cab pickup before? Because you will find out very quickly just how inconvenient it can be to have ZERO storage ability in the cab. Especially if you have the manual transmission (which takes up floor space) and are carrying a passenger. If you go this way I would seriously recommend either a shell/topper or a toolbox in the bed to carry your stuff.

I got my first extended cab truck in 1999 and after that I decided that no matter what the penalty I would never go back to a regular cab. That extended cab is just too convenient!

[T.Low]

Okay, it may be heresy here to ask but why are you going to lift it if that's all you do? I do trails up to 4/5 (on the traildamage.com 1-10 scale) in my 04 Tacoma and it's bone stock, except for the tires.

Should I also mention that my Taco has open diffs front and rear? ;)

For the price of a lift kit you can put a lot of gas into that 4 cyl motor, or you can put the money into other mods that you will get more use out of. Storage? RTT? Shell?

If your lift kit is to fit much larger tires, you might want to reconsider, especially if you get the 4 cyl.

I may be in the minority here but I am a firm believer in the principle of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." :D Although I've toyed with the idea of lifting my Taco, I honestly haven't been in a situation yet where a lift would have been beneficial, and I've been in quite a few where the lift would be detrimental (as in, higher CG which means a greater likelihood of a rollover.)

I might someday get a more responsive suspension, but if it only gets me a 1" or even a 0" lift I'd be fine with that.

I have to ask - have you ever owned a single-cab pickup before? Because you will find out very quickly just how inconvenient it can be to have ZERO storage ability in the cab. Especially if you have the manual transmission (which takes up floor space) and are carrying a passenger. If you go this way I would seriously recommend either a shell/topper or a toolbox in the bed to carry your stuff.

I got my first extended cab truck in 1999 and after that I decided that no matter what the penalty I would never go back to a regular cab. That extended cab is just too convenient!



I agree with Matinjmpr. There is a reason the singe cab 4cyl are inexpensive. For a week, while driving your Jeep, look around the cab to see what stuff you bring with you on a daily basis. Also, if you camp when wheelin'. If you have a book bag you need to bring with you, then suddenly the single cab is all clutterred up. God forbid you need to bring a passenger and his stuff too. Not to mention its just a really small confined space to drive around in.

My boatin friends have been dissappointed in the performance and mpg of their 4cyl Toyota's, especially after they put more aggressive tires on them. Every single one of them wishes they would have gotton the 6.

Back in '96, I had a '95 Tacoma 4x4 6cyl Extended cab 5spd stick, the first year of the "middle generation". It was a great little truck. They do 90 mph on the freeway when you need to get across the country, and they're very capable off road.

[Spenser]

To chime in here as a large man (6'3, 300 lbs) with a regular cab tacoma-it is small, and there is no storage with a passenger. I use it as my daily driver, alone, so stow things on the floor or seat but really cant use the truck with stuff inside and passenger. It does get good gas mileage, is able to haul stuff and excellent truck but the regular cab is limiting. For instance, if you want to hide fly rods or cameras or bags, they have to fit behind the seat, mandolin gets strapped in like a passenger and has to go everywhere.

PS-My wife refuses to go anywhere further than an hour away in the truck because it is small to her after a period of time and it isnt as comfortable as the Commander or her car, and she is only 5'4"

[Cackalak Han]

Another vote to get an ext. or double cab. My friend has a single cab and it does suck when going hunting/fishing, because there is absolutely no room to store it in the truck. We can put it in the bed, but if we stop somewhere to eat or shop, we have to put everything in the cab. Very inconvenient.

As far as the XJ vs. Tacoma, I say if you can afford to get the new/used truck, do it. I love Jeeps (had a 98 5.9L ZJ). But Toyota has an edge in reliability and everything just felt more solid and built better. You will love the 05+ Ext. Cab V6. :jumping:

[heeltoe989]

Tacoma's are so capable it takes holes like this to get them stuck!

[XJxplorer]

Okay, it may be heresy here to ask but why are you going to lift it if that's all you do? I do trails up to 4/5 (on the traildamage.com 1-10 scale) in my 04 Tacoma and it's bone stock, except for the tires.

I def have been in areas with the XJ that needed the lift.. I guess I don't JUST stick to backroads and what not.. Some of the roads are rated circle, square, or diamond(like ski runs) and I am frequently on the square rated roads... If the road is pretty bad, but I want to get to whatever is at the other end, I will take that road.. I have friends with stock ext cab tacomas and they couldn't go where I go, sometimes. We have tried and it didn't turn out to well.. So that is why I would lift it... I would be going to a 265 tire which is only 1" taller than the stock tire.




For the price of a lift kit you can put a lot of gas into that 4 cyl motor, or you can put the money into other mods that you will get more use out of. Storage? RTT? Shell?

A bed rug, and a SnugTop shell are on the first list of mods, as well.


I have to ask - have you ever owned a single-cab pickup before? Because you will find out very quickly just how inconvenient it can be to have ZERO storage ability in the cab. Especially if you have the manual transmission (which takes up floor space) and are carrying a passenger. If you go this way I would seriously recommend either a shell/topper or a toolbox in the bed to carry your stuff.

I have actually been paying attention to what I bring with me and what I use the back seat for in the XJ a lot, lately. My conclusion, is that I don't use it for anything.. It has been empty for the last month. The only thing I will ever take with me in the jeep is a drink or some food. If I go camping/fishing/snowboarding or whatever, the shell will be there.

The 05+ reg cabs are actually larger than previous years.. I am 6' 200lbs and I actually have to slide the seat forward to comfortably use the pedals. If it is pushed back all the way, there is too much room between my feet and the pedals... I had a second job for a while delivering blueprints. The truck I used was a 2005 5lug Taco. I was in the thing for 8 hours 2 days a week. I was really surprised with the room, power, and mileage.

[FshTaco99]

I've owned nothing but Jeeps until three months ago. I drove a 99' Xj with a Rusty's 8'', Detroit's, and 4.56's... As my DD. Stock a Cherokee is also very capable. BUT, they do not come with a factory locker, sit lower then the Taco, and are unibody. I purchased a Taco because I got tired of putting dead animals in the back of my Jeep. I work(ed) on a farm and really needed a bed. A regular cab truck is what I originally looked into. You'd be miserable going from the Xj to a regular cab. I'm still adjusting to the extended cab of mine. Personally though, I cannot compare a severally modified Cherokee to a stock 99' Tacoma. Gas prices made me change vehicles... Now I'm stuck with a Jeep no one wants... Everyone will see it forsale on here and NAXJA soon.

[sami]

FWIW, i drove an '03 Xtra cab Taco while in Alaska for 8 months. I loved it, but I vowed that if i ever were to get a Taco of my own, it'd be a double cab. ;) I want more space...

[maxama10]

While I'm all for the move to the Taco, some things you might want to know.

Throwing on a lift kit isn't as simple as it sounds to get "right"


To really do a lift right on the Tacoma's you need new UCA's. IFS trucks are a little different to lift than with the solid axle XJ

Most people scrape by without them, as you will notice few members on this forum actually have them. Without them though you will run out of adjustment for caster and camber for your alignment. This can cause crappy handling at high speeds and also tire wear as your tires will more than likely(like mine) be pointing inwards \ /

It's really up to you but have it in mind to spend an extra 600$ possibly less for the new UCA's if you're picky about the way your truck drives.


Just something to consider. and IMO the Tacomas are very capable and the rear suspension flex is awesome! I also vote for a locker in front or rear or both!


good luck

[XJxplorer]

While I'm all for the move to the Taco, some things you might want to know.

Throwing on a lift kit isn't as simple as it sounds to get "right"


To really do a lift right on the Tacoma's you need new UCA's. IFS trucks are a little different to lift than with the solid axle XJ

Most people scrape by without them, as you will notice few members on this forum actually have them. Without them though you will run out of adjustment for caster and camber for your alignment. This can cause crappy handling at high speeds and also tire wear as your tires will more than likely(like mine) be pointing inwards \ /

It's really up to you but have it in mind to spend an extra 600$ possibly less for the new UCA's if you're picky about the way your truck drives.


Just something to consider. and IMO the Tacomas are very capable and the rear suspension flex is awesome! I also vote for a locker in front or rear or both!


good luck

If I go the Tacoma route, my plan would be....

Allpro/Fox 2.5" coilovers for the front
Camburg UCA OR the Allpro UCA, you get a $100 discount if you order there coilovers and UCA together.
Spindle Gussets
Sway Bar links
OME 3" leafs
Fox rear shocks
265/75/16 OR 235/85/16
4.88 gears(depending on tire size)
Stainless rear extended brakeline
Fab up some new shackle/shackle mounts... They have inverted shackles which limit rear flex considerably.
ARB air lockers front and rear
Allpro front bumper w/warm M800
Snugtop shell
Bed rug

I'm sure there's a few other things I am missing...

If I were to go this route, half of those thing would be done right away and the rest as time goes on.

[maxama10]

Well gosh and to think I thought you were talking about capable stock. Throw those parts at anything and its gonna go places! :elkgrin:

Yeah though, steer clear of those camburg arms, they won't fix the alignment problems. Send a PM to Toku58 for more about that if you want to.

The lightracing arms look pretty good.


I'm looking forward to this build and to be honest I'm pretty jealous of that list of parts you've got going on there. :oops:

-Max

[haven]

Here's a very capable Tacoma, with a few custom parts!

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z241/expeditioncampers/tacomatubebuggy.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z241/expeditioncampers/tacomatubebuggy2.jpg

[heeltoe989]

Here's a very capable Tacoma, with a few custom parts!

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z241/expeditioncampers/tacomatubebuggy.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z241/expeditioncampers/tacomatubebuggy2.jpg


That's awesome! Love the wheels :)

[jh504]

I have owned two older tacomas and I am currently driving an XJ with a 6" lift. My vote would be for the 01-04 body style for sure, but I am biased. If I had the money to throw at a new tacoma verses the old, it would definitley be the old with low miles. I would get an 04 extended or 4-door with the e-locker. Add a 3" lift and go anywhere you want. I did have trouble with the stock ground clearance and departure angles. A 3" lift went a long way to remedy that.
But then again, if the XJ is payed for I would keep it! Which is excactly why I am driving my XJ. No monthly payments means more money for trips, modfications etc. My XJ has 170,000 on it and I wouldn't hesitate to drive it X country, wheel it, and drive back home. A well taken care of (and well cooled) XJ will last a long time.

[XJxplorer]

Is it possible to run the Rubicon with 3" and 265's in a Tacoma??

[a.mus.ed]

My vote would be for the 01-04 body style for sure, but I am biased. If I had the money to throw at a new tacoma verses the old, it would definitley be the old with low miles.

X2
I've owned an '01 and an '07. There's no question about it, I'd take the '01-'04 over the '05 and up, even if they were the same price.

[XJxplorer]

X2
I've owned an '01 and an '07. There's no question about it, I'd take the '01-'04 over the '05 and up, even if they were the same price.

In your opinion, why is that??

I have not owned either, but have driven both and I am leaning towards the 05+ because of the space, mainly.. And it felt like there was more power.

[calamaridog]

Is it possible to run the Rubicon with 3" and 265's in a Tacoma??

I recall several IFS Taco's have run the Rubicon, although most of the ones I remember may have been running 285's.

[jgolden]

Is it possible to run the Rubicon with 3" and 265's in a Tacoma??

I heard they (toyota marketing) ran the Rubicon in a stock FJ Cruiser? I have nothing to back this up, a friend told me. He also said there's some "either / or" routes on the rubicon.....like an easy way around the difficult stuff.

Can anyone shed more light on this?

[mcm4090]

X2
I've owned an '01 and an '07. There's no question about it, I'd take the '01-'04 over the '05 and up, even if they were the same price.

X3. If they were still sell that Generation in 2005 I would still be driving a Taco.

[Martinjmpr]

You can turn a Prius into a rock crawler if you throw enough money at it. ;)

[the dude]

X2
I've owned an '01 and an '07. There's no question about it, I'd take the '01-'04 over the '05 and up, even if they were the same price.


X3. If they were still sell that Generation in 2005 I would still be driving a Taco.


In your opinion, why is that??

I have not owned either, but have driven both and I am leaning towards the 05+ because of the space, mainly.. And it felt like there was more power.

I am also interested in why you would prefer the older style. We are in the market for a Taco and like the bigger 05+

Does anybody else feel the same?

[Martinjmpr]

Well, I can't speak for anyone else but the pushbutton 4wd is a dealbreaker for me. That's one reason why I specifically looked for a 2004-earlier truck when I went truck shopping in January of 07. Interestingly, I noted that Nissan also went from the shifter to a pushbutton in 2005, so I was looking for either a 2004-down Tacoma or a Frontier.

The 2005 - up Tacos are also bigger in almost every dimension than the 1995-04 version. Bigger might be more comfortable but it's also less maneuverable on the trail and generally consumes more fuel.

I have also heard from others that suspension articulation and travel isn't nearly as good. The newer Tacos appear to either be lower than the older ones, or at least they have more crap hanging down than the older ones do.

I think Toyota did what too many other manufacturers do: They took something that wasn't broken and they "fixed" it. :rolleyes:

IMO the only really good thing Toyota did with the 05-up models is that they finally offered the double cab with a manual transmission.

I am constantly amazed at how well my bone-stock 04 does off road and some pretty gnarly trails (at least they're gnarly to me.)

[FshTaco99]

I too enjoy the primitive feeling in my 99'. Stick, manual t-case... Very close to the feeling of my Cherokee. Things are a tad less complicted with the S*** hits the fan. My Ranger the 4wd gave out and I spent all weekend tracing wires... No good.

[Martinjmpr]

Actually, I should have added the manual windows, manual door locks, and manual (although remotely controlled) mirrors. There's a lot to be said for keeping it simple.

Can you even buy a car today that doesn't have power windows?

What saddens me is that there doesn't seem to be any slowing down in this race to make everything on a vehicle electrically controlled and remotely operated. Seems like a terrible idea and a great example of planned obsolescence - as in, within 15 - 20 years, nobody is going to make all the little electrical doodads that will keep this vehicle running, so you might as well scrap it and buy a new vehicle.

Contrast that to the fact that there are Land Rovers, Land Cruisers and M-37 trucks from the 1950's that are still running because all the parts are mechanical and can be rebuilt or replaced.

I was really sorry to see Toyota go over to the Dark Side in 2005, but I suppose it was inevitable. Ah, well, I guess my Taco will probably last me at least another 4-5 years (or longer: I kept my equally simple Montero for 7 years) so I won't have to worry about buying another vehicle until then.

[HMR]

Very happy with my roomy, comfortable and capable 2005.

I'm also a big fan of the 4x4 Pickup (drove a '94 for 10 years) and the '95-2004 Tacos. IMHO- you can't go wrong with any of the Toyota trucks.

[mcm4090]

I am also interested in why you would prefer the older style. We are in the market for a Taco and like the bigger 05+

Ok let me first say that this is just my opinion. I am not trying to insult any vehicle or promote another.

I believe from 1998 - 2004 the toyota Tacoma was the best truck on the market compaired to Ford, chevy,and Nissan. And I was totally set on getting a 2005 tacoma until I started compairing it to the other makes. Personally I don't feel that the 2005 Tacoma is an improvment to the previous generations.

[maxama10]

Why the Frontier vs Tacoma?

[the dude]

Ok let me first say that this is just my opinion. I am not trying to insult any vehicle or promote another.

I believe from 1998 - 2004 the toyota Tacoma was the best truck on the market compaired to Ford, chevy,and Nissan. And I was totally set on getting a 2005 tacoma until I started compairing it to the other makes. Personally I don't feel that the 2005 Tacoma is an improvment to the previous generations.

BUT WHY???

I am looking for opinions and real life comparisons!! :beer:

I can understand some of the "electronic" issues. I struggled with the push button 4x4 and the auto on my Land Cruiser. Now, I don't think I would give up either (well the push button could go, but I love the auto) I don't know if the Tacos are built to the same high standards as the Cruisers...;)

[Jim&Tammy]

I owned a 00' Ext. Cab TRD Taco until last year when I traded it in for my FJ Cruiser. The 00' Taco had a 3" Lift, 33" tires, JBA exhaust, JBA Headers, and K&N CAI, fiberglass shell, Wilderness Roof Rack w/ Hi Lift mounts and Jack. Of course it had the stock locker too. That thing was indestuctable and would go anywhere from Colorado to Northern and Southern Arizona. That Taco litteraly took a beating and kept on ticking. Never had any motor issues or Diff problems. I drove from Arizona to TN. to North Carolina back to AZ and then to Colorado. Also drove back and forth for a while to Arizona to see my wife until she came to Colorado with me. I regret selling it now and even almost bought a 01 Ext. Cab. TRD SE w/TRD S/C. But the motor sounded like it was really hurting beyond my wallet.

I will stick with the FJ now and continue the build, currently has: 3" OME, All Pro front and rear bumpers, M8000 winch, 295/70/17 Nitto Terra Grapplers. Of course more to come.

[CA-RJ]

Why not buy this (http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15840) one for $17k and call it done?

[Cackalak Han]

BUT WHY???


Well, I think it's mostly due to the increased size. That's the only thing I can think of. When I drove my friend's 06 Double Cab, it felt about as big as his old Tundra DC. They just "feel" bigger, whereas the 95-04 Tacomas feel like a mid-sized truck. If this is an issue for you, get the older Tacoma.

I actually wouldn't mind the new Tacoma, because I don't do any hardcore crawling, so size difference doesn't matter and the extra space would be nice. And I really like the new 4.0L V6 in the new Tacomas, too, along with the 5-sp auto transmission. But not enough to sell my 01 DC.

Here is a nice looking 04 w/ low miles. Could probably talk him down a lot. Don't know anything about it, though (just found it browsing craigslist).

http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/car/739089301.html

[jh504]

I recall several IFS Taco's have run the Rubicon, although most of the ones I remember may have been running 285's.

I ran 285s on my '01 TRD Tacoma with a 3" lift. It scrubed slightly but I was very happy with the setup.

[maxama10]

05+ Tacomas are still much smaller than the f150 and only a little bigger than the colorado/canyon or ranger.

I dunno why the size thing is so important, I guess a lot of you live where you can barely squeeze through trails?

All those commercials brain washed me into thinking bigger is better I guess?
:P

For me the extra room is nice.

[Jacket]

I find this repeated discussion/argument kinda funny. There are so many people on the "95-04 is better" bandwagon - many without a good reason why.

The bottom line is this: each person is going to have different needs with their vehicle. While one person thinks the size increase is the worst thing imaginable, the next guy (like me) finds a lot of value in having the extra space to travel with 3 other passengers. To say the quality on the 05+ isn't up to snuff is a bit premature to say the least. The truck is barely 3 years old, and has only begun to enter the market of 2nd and 3rd owners that will begin to look for long term quality and value.

Let me ask you this: How many folks thought the 60 series LC was "way better" than the FJ40? And how many folks believed the new FJ80 was a "huge improvement" over the FJ60? And who out there saw the 1st gen Tacoma in 1995, and said - man, this thing is sooo much better than the old mini-truck? I'll venture to say not that many. But over time, these trucks proved their worthiness. I guess we'll see if the 05+ Tacoma holds up to these standards.

I'm one of the freakish minority that started my search for a Tacoma looking for a 2001-2004, and ended up with a 2nd gen Tacoma. Is it the best wheeler? No. Is it the best rock crawler? No. Is it more comfortable? Yes. Is it more well-rounded? Yes. Is it the best fit for my needs? Maybe. Is it the best fit for yours? Maybe.

[nickw]

I dont get the feeling people are generally saying the 1st gen is 'better' but rather that the 2nd gen is not a upgrade over the previous and not (at this time) worth additional cost associated. I think alot of people, push come to shove, would rather have a 2nd gen Taco than any other new pickup currently being offered.

I hear you on the 40 vs. 60 vs. 80, but I think each one of those rigs did represent evolution of 4x4 to the highest degree possible. The 60 offered wider, stronger axles and better TC. The 80 took that a step further with full lockers, full floater rear axle and a outstanding coil setup.

I dont howerver feel like the 2nd gen Taco does anything better, besides having more room, than the 1st. Again, when my 01 wears out, I wouldn't buy anything besides another Toyota.

But something to think about, all the guys with the 86-94 rigs with the older IFS design thought that the 1st gen Tacos were worthless. I am sure 10 years down the road the 2nd gen will hold the nastalga of 'back when the rigs were built tough', it is all relative to what you currently have in the market.

[Martinjmpr]

It's not just the increased size, it's also the increased complexity. Can you even get a Taco with manual crank windows anymore? Do they even make them? Electric windows, electric T-case, electric locks - all of these things are additional complexities that can break or leave you in a bad situation.

And yes, I know, mechanical devices can break, too. But it's also a fact that they break less frequently than the electrical ones, where all it takes is a loose wire or a bit of worn insulation to leave you dead in your tracks.

Don't believe me? Just do a quick search of any Toyota forum and tell me how many people report problems with their T-case not engaging. Then tell me what percentage of those people have mechanical T-cases. Certainly the vacuum can go out on the ADD (which is why, all things considered, I'd prefer to just have manual hubs) but when you look at all the people who report problems with their electrical T-case, it's not a minor concern.

And this is Toyota - go over to the Ford Ranger boards and see how much they like their electric T-cases.

The gripe I have with the supersizing of "small" trucks is that there has never been a time when you couldn't get a bigger truck if you really wanted one by just going to a full size. But those of us who prefer smaller trucks (because they're smaller; Lighter; easier to drive; consume less gas; have an overall smaller "footprint") have nowhere to go when everybody supersizes.

[Streakerfreak]

consume less gas

Except for the fact that there is not much of a difference in gas milage between the different generations of Tacoma.

Beside, I enjoy my electric locks and windows:) Leave them alone.

I can get a bit spacy when it comes to car keys. With my bare bones 88 Nissan Hardbody, my bare bones 95 Nissan Hardbody, and my bare bones 02 Nissan Frontier I was locking my keys in those trucks almost 3 times a month:oops: .

Now I now longer have to worry about that.

I know the electric doodads tend to fail more often, but I do enjoy them for long trips.

[Cackalak Han]

Except for the fact that there is not much of a difference in gas milage between the different generations of Tacoma.

Beside, I enjoy my electric locks and windows:) Leave them alone.

I can get a bit spacy when it comes to car keys. With my bare bones 88 Nissan Hardbody, my bare bones 95 Nissan Hardbody, and my bare bones 02 Nissan Frontier I was locking my keys in those trucks almost 3 times a month:oops: .

Now I now longer have to worry about that.

I know the electric doodads tend to fail more often, but I do enjoy them for long trips.

I agree with this person, too. My electric windows, ADD, etc. all are working fine. Maybe this will become an issue when my truck hits 300k+? I don't know, and honestly don't care, as I don't think I would keep a vehicle past 250-300k, if that. But they are working solid still. I have NEVER had issues with the interior eletronic components in a Toyota yet. I'd much rather have the comfort of motorized windows, ADD, etc. Even if I have to fix them every once in a while.

[mcm4090]

Why the Frontier vs Tacoma?
I hope it didn't come out that way but if you feel that it did I appolize.

[maxama10]

I hope it didn't come out that way but if you feel that it did I appolize.


What, haha, I'm saying that because you obviously bought a Frontier. Not from what you said. :beer:

[heeltoe989]

When I bought my Tacoma, I brought a Frontier to the Toyota dealer to compare. I had the trucks side by side, and when through them both for about an hour. In the end I chose the Tacoma, I always wanted one and I liked the look of it a bit more. what I'm trying to get at is it really boils down to what you like, and how practical and functional will it be for your life.

[dsrtdcab]

I had previously owned a 99 taco, 2.7 extracab, 5-spd. and for one feel the '05 is a VAST improvement. Not necessarily in fit and finish, or even gas mileage for that matter, its more so in what is offered. the power features are nice, but is the design of the bed with the power outlet, bed rail system, fold flat seats, multiple cup/bottle holders etc. I could go on and on, but in the end its a matter of what wets your whistle. The size difference while on paper may be larger by some standards, in the trails of NE i have zero issues keeping up with older gen 4runners, p/u etc. The V6, low range, and elocker have made me look like a hero next to some pretty built rigs. Add to that the convience of sitting in my truck while everyone else gets out to disengage their hubs and in my [I]opinion[I], toyota got it right, well except for the V8 option that is available in the new 4Runner with almost the same frame.....

[Jacket]

It's not just the increased size, it's also the increased complexity. Can you even get a Taco with manual crank windows anymore? Do they even make them? Electric windows, electric T-case, electric locks - all of these things are additional complexities that can break or leave you in a bad situation.

And yes, I know, mechanical devices can break, too. But it's also a fact that they break less frequently than the electrical ones, where all it takes is a loose wire or a bit of worn insulation to leave you dead in your tracks.

Don't believe me? Just do a quick search of any Toyota forum and tell me how many people report problems with their T-case not engaging. Then tell me what percentage of those people have mechanical T-cases. Certainly the vacuum can go out on the ADD (which is why, all things considered, I'd prefer to just have manual hubs) but when you look at all the people who report problems with their electrical T-case, it's not a minor concern.

And this is Toyota - go over to the Ford Ranger boards and see how much they like their electric T-cases.

The gripe I have with the supersizing of "small" trucks is that there has never been a time when you couldn't get a bigger truck if you really wanted one by just going to a full size. But those of us who prefer smaller trucks (because they're smaller; Lighter; easier to drive; consume less gas; have an overall smaller "footprint") have nowhere to go when everybody supersizes.

Using this logic, we should all scrap or EFI engines, and see what it would take to perform a conversion back to a carburetor. Adoro la cerradura de vapor :cow:
Oh yea, and lets toss out our electric starters and bring back the hand crank ;)

Just messin with you Martin. The new FJC's have a manual transfer case shifter, so someone will figure out how to retrofit it into the Tacomas given that most of the other drivetrain parts are the same. But regardless, strictly mechanical parts will continue to become more and more obsolete - no way to stop that.

[Jacket]

Just wait until Toyota replaces the rear axle with a nice IRS similar to the Highlander or Sequoia! Then what will us natives do???

[heeltoe989]

Just wait until Toyota replaces the rear axle with a nice IRS similar to the Highlander or Sequoia! Then what will us natives do???

BITE YOUR TONGUE!!!!!!

I guess will do front and rear solid axle swaps :). the way Toyota should have made them.

[lqhikers]

Reading all the input about tacos,early and late,what sticks out in my mind is the way the the companys control what we want. I remember when you could go to the dealer (usa type) set down pick the options you want order,dream for a few weeks and go pick up you "custom rig".Now you take what they give you to get what you want!(you want a locker well you have to order package a,b or what ever,so you end up with a lot of items you did not want,Shame on us for putting up with it.
Yes i am guilty to as i sold my bullet proof 2002 reg cab,5 speed,4 banger ,hand crank windows,great mileage,went every where,almost bone stock,bought a 2008 extended cab v/6 (not available with 4 banger)6sp trans,trd, etc,etc.
So now when we set up camp the keys are in the spot we keep them so we dont miss place then or forget to take them out of our pocket when we jump in the lake, river to cool off (because if you forget they can stop working if wet thats what the manual says) then when you take you map,book,etc and go set in the front seat you find that to crack or roll down the window you have to have the key to perform this simple task!
I guess you get the picture,maybe im just hot (today it is 116 on the patio)
And i will not even get into all the plastic crap on the taco now!(composite bed)Bumpers (it is sold as a truck)should do what A TRUCK DOES!
But i still drive slow and enjoy as "its the journey"
Les Lqhikers

[Streakerfreak]

And i will not even get into all the plastic crap on the taco now!(composite bed)Bumpers (it is sold as a truck)should do what A TRUCK DOES!
But i still drive slow and enjoy as "its the journey"
Les Lqhikers

Show me a new truck in the US that doesn't have cheap plastic. IMO the Tacoma is still the best made and has the best materials.

What do I base my opinion on? I drive 5-10 different trucks a day and 10-15 different cars each day with each drive about 5-10 miles on a variety of roads. I have to test drive everything that comes into the shop. I am also around mechanics who have worked for all the major companies and I value there opinion on quality.

What did I drive today... 06 NISMO Frontier King Cab, 3 different model year Nissan Hard body's, a 99 Frontier (it was Nissan day for some reason) the obligatory low mileage Dodge Ram diesel 4x4(yeah we get a lot unfortunately, no I am not bashing), a fairly new F150, an early 90s Toyota Truck, a GMC, and a Rumble Bee. These line ups change all the time. Generally we do most of our work on the Big 3. Most of the Nissan's and Toyota's don't don't start coming for the big stuff until the 100,000-150,000 miles with exceptions of course. Again, please don't read this statement as bashing other brands. I'm just stating what happens at our shop.

Anyways, I love the composite bed. It works great for me and the bed doesn't rust! All three of my past trucks and their beds all rusted away back in CT.
What I don't understand are the people who buy the new Tacoma's knowing full well there is a composite bed, plastic bumpers, electric turn button 4wd, fly by wire manual, etc and then complain about it. Do people not look and test drive before they buy.

[mcm4090]

. IMO the Tacoma is still the best made and has the best materials.



That would be your personal opinion.

[lqhikers]

Sorry but i have to disagree with you on" plastic" bed,i run a fwc pop up camper and to mount the camper i had to build a extra strong Metal bracket to make sure i could do the same trips and trails i did with early steel bed taco,rest assured that when i mean trails i mean Baja type running where there is no way the "plastic bed would do the job"Its my money so i will knock it if it does not perform to the standard that i set.
this being said there are many features that are great,but the bad one seems to me is for the profit for the company not for the needs of the buyers use!
My 2002 rear bumper was strong enough to support the back up brackets for my camper.the 2008 was not,i had to re design brackets to do the same job!
Also should you have to fight the dealer to have them replace weak springs on a TRUCK.?
P.S.we DON'T WORRY ABOUT RUST IN THE DESERT!
It is getting cooler now on patio down to 108!
Drive slow and enjoy "its the journey"
Les Lqhikers

[Streakerfreak]

That would be your personal opinion.

AND the Frontier of course:) I am a Frontier and a Tacoma kind of guy.

I had an 02 Frontier and I loved that thing. Yes much different then the 05 Frontier, but good quality and performance.

[jh504]

I hope in my post no one thought I was bashing the new tacos. I really like them, and I think they are a great truck. Hopefully in years to come they will prove themselves as well. My personal choice would be the compact 01-04 simply because I am a light truck guy. I would much rather have a compact truck over a midsized because it is better for me. And yes the trails I run here in NC are extremly tight!

[mcm4090]

Now I don't have a Taco but I do have a midsized truck. The wiidth of truck is greater and is noticable on the trails in the east but I have done every trail at URE in N.C.

I do enjoy the size since I have two (one is a teenager) and with the depth of the bed I am able to carry on my camping and trail gear for a four day trip.

[Streakerfreak]

Now I don't have a Taco but I do have a midsized truck. The wiidth of truck is greater and is noticable on the trails in the east but I have done every trail at URE in N.C.

I do enjoy the size since I have two (one is a teenager) and with the depth of the bed I am able to carry on my camping and trail gear for a four day trip.

When it was time for me to get out of my Frontier I had a long look at both the new Frontiers and the new Tacomas. The dirty truth is... it was the styling that sold me on the Tacoma.

I loved the styling of the 01-04 Frontiers, but there was something about the new ones that just did not work for me. I actually like the styling of the old Frontiers vs the old Tacomas and visa verse with the 05+ versions.

[the dude]

Thanks for some really good responses.

Are there any mechanical issues/differences that people don't like? I am a big fan of lever transfer cases and manual hubs, and I am sure in time these "fixes" will be available for the 05+ tacos (if they aren't already built)

But what about engines, transmissions, axles ect. Did toyota make improvements on the newer tacos?

[Streakerfreak]

Thanks for some really good responses.

Are there any mechanical issues/differences that people don't like? I am a big fan of lever transfer cases and manual hubs, and I am sure in time these "fixes" will be available for the 05+ tacos (if they aren't already built)

But what about engines, transmissions, axles ect. Did toyota make improvements on the newer tacos?

There was a problem with some of the 05 models and their rear ends, but that issue has been fixed. I can't remember the exact issue though. I'm sure someone else can chime in.

There is also the problem with the rear springs not being strong enough. Some people have to fight to get them fixed, others have no problem. It was not an issue for me as I had switched to Alcans anyways.

There were a few other smaller problems, but I can't remember them.

[maxama10]

As much as I hate to say it,

there is one guy on TN and TTORA

Tacogrande/Tacosupreme


beats the piss out of his truck and he says it is going to be destroyed soon and he is going to get something else.

He's made a ton of modifications, and now says that it is not a good vehicle for a starting point for someone like him.

As I said though, he's beating the snot out of the truck and drives it daily on one of the autobahns.

Edit: our stumptaco wheels with him over there

So, you could also take it the other way and say it is a good truck for putting up with that, but he says he is going to destroy it or is well on the way to destroying it. Either way.

[Martinjmpr]

Using this logic, we should all scrap or EFI engines, and see what it would take to perform a conversion back to a carburetor. Adoro la cerradura de vapor :cow:
Oh yea, and lets toss out our electric starters and bring back the hand crank ;)

Just messin with you Martin. The new FJC's have a manual transfer case shifter, so someone will figure out how to retrofit it into the Tacomas given that most of the other drivetrain parts are the same. But regardless, strictly mechanical parts will continue to become more and more obsolete - no way to stop that.

Ah, yes, the Reductio Ad Absurdum argument. :rolleyes:

I have no problem with technological advancement. Given that may first 4x4 was a 1957 International Travelall (making it about 5 years older than me when I bought it in 1979) I appreciate a lot of things that have improved. In fact, I go against the grain of many younger Toyota fans who seem to worship the solid-axle pre-86 trucks. As an owner of a 1985 Solid Axle Toyota 4x4 I can tell you that IFS is a vast improvement. Same with EFI, electronic ignition, power steering and brakes, AC and the like.

What I have a problem with is unneccessary technology that adds complexity without adding any real tangible benefit.

I'll trade off, for example, the fact that an AC compressor might fail and cause other problems because the benefit - not burning up in the Summer - is worth it. I'll trade off the complexity of electronic ignition - and the fact that if your computer dies the only thing you can do is replace it, at a probably exorbitant cost - because in exchange I get a much more reliable and maintenance-free ignition. I'll trade off the complexity and expense of an IFS system (and the fact that it limits articulation and makes lifting a vehicle more difficult and expensive) because in return I get a vehicle with significantly better road manners and a vehicle that can go more than 10mph on a washboard road.

But what benefit does the electic T-case or the power windows give you? The electric t-case in particular is a benefit to the designer, because they can put the switch wherever they want and they don't have to design two different interiors, one for the 4x4 that has a big cutout on the transmission tunnel and one for the 4x2 that doesn't. But for the end user all they've done is taken a system that worked fine the way it was and introduced yet another possible point of failure. Same with power windows. Yes, it does let the driver open the passenger window without having to reach over, but besides that, what is the advantage? Again, a potential point of failure has been introduced into a system that worked fine the way it was.

At the stock show in January (jointly sponsored by Toyota and Dodge) there was a nice display of some big work trucks. Now these aren't pampered suburban garage trucks, these were by-God farm and ranch trucks being marketed to people who would actually use them. Anyway, one thing I noticed on the Dodges was that the half-ton models all had nice, comfy leather or velour seats, automatic transmissions, IFS and an electronic T-case, as well as power windows, door locks, RKE, etc.

What was interesting was that the 1-ton dually flatbeds on display had simple vinyl seats, a solid axle, a manual transmission (6 speed), a manually shifted T-case and crank windows. Was it because the company wanted to save money for the potential buyer? I suppose that's possible (although these trucks sell for upwards of $50k new, especially with the Cummins Turbo Diesel, so it's hard to imagine that saving money is much of a concern) but it seems more likely that Dodge (and their potential buyers at the stock show) realized that these older, simpler components were just more reliable and more likely to survive the rugged use to which a farm/ranch truck is put.

[heeltoe989]

As much as I hate to say it,

there is one guy on TN and TTORA

Tacogrande/Tacosupreme


beats the piss out of his truck and he says it is going to be destroyed soon and he is going to get something else.

He's made a ton of modifications, and now says that it is not a good vehicle for a starting point for someone like him.

As I said though, he's beating the snot out of the truck and drives it daily on one of the autobahns.

Edit: our stumptaco wheels with him over there

So, you could also take it the other way and say it is a good truck for putting up with that, but he says he is going to destroy it or is well on the way to destroying it. Either way.


Too me this seems just so pointless and a large waste of money. Show me any truck that will take a large amount of abuse, none will without putting a little bit of care back into it. Any farm or ranch truck is usually pretty well taken care of, because of its life, plane and simple "IT HAS TO WORK AND MAKE MONEY"

Living in Alberta Canada and the oil patch the average life span for one of our one ton Ford, Chevy, Dodge is about 80000 KM and there worn out....everything in the drive train is done, this is all due to abuse.

My way of thinking is that, sure I abuse my truck wheeling, but I take care of it and I think most of us do, because we don't want to be in the middle of now where with a broken down truck. The only way you'll get something to last in really hard abuse conditions, is build a one off type truck built specific for the application, or build the hell out of a one ton, which will cost well into the 100K.

My 2 cents.

[heeltoe989]

Thanks for some really good responses.

Are there any mechanical issues/differences that people don't like? I am a big fan of lever transfer cases and manual hubs, and I am sure in time these "fixes" will be available for the 05+ tacos (if they aren't already built)

But what about engines, transmissions, axles ect. Did toyota make improvements on the newer tacos?


Everything on the new Taco was shared with the previous Gen Tundra, axles, Transmission and transfer case I think, and the 4.0L V6 came from Lexus's Shelf. So yes everything got a little bigger on the new Tacoma and still proven items.

[Spenser]

First, my Tacoma is not 4 wd but it is my first new Toyota since grad school in 1984 when I had similar 2 wd Toyota with 200k that took me all over Idaho, Wyoming and MOntana for 5 years. This truck replaced a beloved saab wagon with 199,960 miles that was rear ended while stopped, with me in it, by an 84 cadillac doing 55. Saabs work in accidents! Anyway, I went looking for the typical replacement, another used saab (had 4 before the wagon), audi, merc, etc as daily driver for work. Found nothing decent for the price paid by insurance company. Happened to swing by Toyota dealer to check out LC's and saw the Tacoma. Missed having a PU so took one for a drive and I am big person and had to say that the regular cab truck ROCKED for leg room and size, in comparison even to my saabs. Then I saw the price for quaility-14k with AC, tilt, and CD player. You cant touch used cars for that now adays! Not only that, but they gave me another $1k off for being new toyota owner and threw in auto transmission since my wife cant drive a stick.As you can see, I put on new shocks and bigger tires to make it a little tougher to haul dirt, crap and trees from property. I use it as my daily driver, averaging 25 plus MPG and it takes me pretty much everywhere I need to go fishing, hunting and related driving around New England. It isnt a hard off road vehicle, it is tough to get up my driveway and dirt road in winter, since it is only 2 wd but even the stripped down version is a good car for the money, and relatively comforatble for a tall person that has trouble finding cars that fit. One of the earlier commetns regarding the options pacakges are spot on-I wanted crank windows and hand locks, but asked about a king cab 2 wd version. I could have gotten the 2 wd king cab, but the price jumped to $20k+, and had to come with power windows, locks, etc, which I didnt want or need, so that is where they get you. Bottom line, the truck is economical, makes me laugh every time I get in it and go somewhere and is just fun to have, plastic bed or not.

[Martinjmpr]

First off, let me say that if my earlier posts made it sound like I'm "bashing" the 05+ Taco, that wasn't my intention. I'm sure those of you who have your 05+ Tacos like them just fine, and I certainly see a lot of them out and about. So I hope nobody took offense at that. ;)

Second, it seems to me that what's been happening in the car market is that as the American marques fade, Toyota and Honda have been moving steadily "up market." IOW they are making their vehicles more expensive and adding more features. Things that used to be options become standard, that sort of thing.

What does that do to the truck market? Well, IMO it creates a vacuum at the "bottom" end of the market (especially since the bargain-basement Ranger is slated to be taken out of production after 2009.)

So the million $$ question is, who fills that vacuum? I think if Toyota was smart they'd import some no-frills Hiluxes or come out with a no-frills truck to compete, but that may not be viable. Hyundai or Kia could come in with a stripped down, no-frills truck and undercut Toyotas price and I think they would do very well, especially if they offered it with a fuel-sipping 4 cyl and a simple 5 speed and regular 4wd setup. It wouldn't be a speed demon but it would work, and more importantly it might get the same 25mpg that my 85 Toyota pickup routinely returned. Combine that with a price in the mid- to high-teens for a 4wd and I think they'd have a real hit on their hands.

Another possibility is Mahindra coming in with a small truck.

I think it may be difficult for younger people to understand, but Toyota didn't enter the market as the 800lb gorilla they are now. They entered the market as a niche-filling maker of small, efficient cars. That niche still exists, even if Toyota's now too big to fill it.

[heeltoe989]

First off, let me say that if my earlier posts made it sound like I'm "bashing" the 05+ Taco, that wasn't my intention. I'm sure those of you who have your 05+ Tacos like them just fine, and I certainly see a lot of them out and about. So I hope nobody took offense at that. ;)

Second, it seems to me that what's been happening in the car market is that as the American marques fade, Toyota and Honda have been moving steadily "up market." IOW they are making their vehicles more expensive and adding more features. Things that used to be options become standard, that sort of thing.

What does that do to the truck market? Well, IMO it creates a vacuum at the "bottom" end of the market (especially since the bargain-basement Ranger is slated to be taken out of production after 2009.)

So the million $$ question is, who fills that vacuum? I think if Toyota was smart they'd import some no-frills Hiluxes or come out with a no-frills truck to compete, but that may not be viable. Hyundai or Kia could come in with a stripped down, no-frills truck and undercut Toyotas price and I think they would do very well, especially if they offered it with a fuel-sipping 4 cyl and a simple 5 speed and regular 4wd setup. It wouldn't be a speed demon but it would work, and more importantly it might get the same 25mpg that my 85 Toyota pickup routinely returned. Combine that with a price in the mid- to high-teens for a 4wd and I think they'd have a real hit on their hands.

Another possibility is Mahindra coming in with a small truck.

I think it may be difficult for younger people to understand, but Toyota didn't enter the market as the 800lb gorilla they are now. They entered the market as a niche-filling maker of small, efficient cars. That niche still exists, even if Toyota's now too big to fill it.


Very true, I still love the very first little Toyota 4x4 trucks, I just don't fit in the very well. :)

No offense taken either :beer:

I get bashed all the time by my Ford, chevy, dodge friends for having a "little toy truck"

[blatant]

I'll play.

I bought an o7 4wd regular cab, 5spd. i'm 6'3 225 and very surprisingly fit fine, now this is a bench seat. Earlier models are much tighter than the o5. I like it bigger.

It took me QUITE a while to find this particular truck as it has


4cyl
5sp,
Roll down windows
rear slider
4x4.
trd/bilsteins and skids.

Apparently like 95% of these new taco's are all power.

Now i don't "wheel" but i do a ton of camping and forest road exploring. So the truck gets used. Probably about 3-500miles a month of being jostled around and shaken up on miserable dirt roads per mth.

I just felt that the least amount of power options, the better, considering my use. This seemed like the right choice for me.

[Streakerfreak]

So the million $$ question is, who fills that vacuum? I think if Toyota was smart they'd import some no-frills Hiluxes or come out with a no-frills truck to compete, but that may not be viable. Hyundai or Kia could come in with a stripped down, no-frills truck and undercut Toyotas price and I think they would do very well, especially if they offered it with a fuel-sipping 4 cyl and a simple 5 speed and regular 4wd setup. It wouldn't be a speed demon but it would work, and more importantly it might get the same 25mpg that my 85 Toyota pickup routinely returned. Combine that with a price in the mid- to high-teens for a 4wd and I think they'd have a real hit on their hands.


I 100% agree with you.

[DaveInDenver]

Like blatant mentioned, it can take some looking to find the right truck, but they are out there.

When I got my truck, it was surprising more difficult to find what I wanted than I would have throught. I wanted a third gen XtraCab 4WD and a 22R-E. I personally wanted a third gen because the XtraCab is truly bigger. The 84-88 XtraCab is really just enough that you can recline your seat a little, it's not a ton more space. But even by 1989+ Toyota was starting to offer more comfortable trucks and just about every truck I looked at had the V6. I got mine in 2000 and by then the 3VZ head gasket recall was totally known, so I was scared away from the V6 for reliability reasons. Plus the aftermarket for the 22R is HUGE. But finding a truck like mine took some looking and I had to buy one without A/C to get it.

So I guess it's all relative.

[Cackalak Han]

But finding a truck like mine took some looking and I had to buy one without A/C to get it.

Denver:
Partly Cloudy High
92°F

OUCH!! I'd be driving around butt nude if I didn't have A/C. I don't know how you do it.

[DaveInDenver]

Denver:
Partly Cloudy High
92°F

OUCH!! I'd be driving around butt nude if I didn't have A/C. I don't know how you do it.
I'm pretty rarely out when it's that hot (it's nice out at 6AM on the drive into work at least). But, I did fit A/C later, a couple of years ago. Honestly, didn't know what I was missing with A/C until I got it... But mostly I try and ride my bike into work during the summer and I can deal with the heat by running under grass sprinklers and stuff. :-)

[dieselcruiserhead]

Here is my $.02, I hope you don't mind the novel...

My major 80's era mechanic's experience on Toyota vehicles are a head project into a FJ62 with EFI and a '85 EFI 4 Runner SFA timing chaing replacement. (and then lots and lots of small jobs). I have probably owned 3 or 4 60 Series Land Cruisers of different variations (including some factory diesels), plenty of 40s and FJ55s, and I have disected a FZJ80 to every nut and bolt (a FZJ80 chassis sits under my FJ55), and I currently own a '80 3VZ-E V6 powered Toyota pickup that I bought cheap as a mechanical basket case that is now a very reliable and somewhat wheelable truck... Needless to say I have put a little thought into the compexities and necessities of these different mechanical options, and what it means today as most of these late 80's to early 90's implementations are standards today. I noticed a clear trend in about the mid 80's, with that 85 EFI and the FJ-62 (with strong indicators pointing to what was coming from the emissions systems of FJ60s) about what was in store for cars in general, and Toyota vehicles.

Basically, while we are doing plenty of mechanical jobs ourselves, the systems of these vehicles were long ago changed from the home mechanic to professional mechanics only, and even then, with a strong leaning toward "the dealership." This trend pretty much came into strong effect I believe right about 20 years ago. And about 15-20 to even 10 years ago, heavily engrained. For example a home mechanic diagnosing problems with a Prius?

Anyway, my conclusion is that there is a strong leaning towards "stock" on this board that certainly makes sense, but is a little uninformed. To answer the OP's questions, from the different Toyotas I've owned, while Tacomas are great trucks, particularly extend cabs are great trucks, get over a lot, but are a little limited in their "capability." They have to be built fairly stupid big in my opinion to get similar capability from say a Land Cruiser or dare I say even a Jeep. This is because the wheelbase is, in fact, pickup truck-like. Long, particularly long rear overhang. I think a lot of it varies according to what our needs are. Dirt roads and unimproved roads? Perfectly fine in a Taco. But hard wheeling, class 4 and 5 rated, double locker stuff? Drag bang push and grind, scrape and possible breakage. Versus the ease of a nice smartly build truck like a Land Cruiser, or (dare I say again) perhaps a regular cab with a 4" lift and 33s.

And finally, you can heavily modify some trucks, including tacomas, and have them highly reliable. I think there is a phobia of this a little when a smartly modified vehicle can be just as reliable. But I am noticing a lot of electrical modifications, winch and bumper, when I do believe that for Americans, who are not "expeditioning" as much, that a larger lift like a 4" and 33's would got a lot farther, as far as the capability of the truck. I am one to be "conservative" with suspension mods myself. Expecially because the cost of this stuff is so high. But these changes make the biggest difference as far as capability.

[dieselcruiserhead]

Also I wanted to say it's been a long time since I owned a regular cab truck... I have three trips to southern Utah in the last two months alone in it, a couple of trips with two people and our stuff. I have to say its actually refreshing to account for everything and have a slightly minimalist approach, sort of like a sailboat. Everything has its place. It creates a lack of clutter, garbage is disposed of quickly, no junk in the car. I am also 6'5 so "I barely fit" but man I love this truck and have few complaints. Right now I am in a place where I prefer the regular cab. I also have a '93 regular cab that is flawless/rust free, just needs some minor mechanical work, and is much lower mileage than my own truck. It never even crossed my mind to transition to the extra cab versus what I own... For what its worth...

[DaveInDenver]

It never even crossed my mind to transition to the extra cab versus what I own... For what its worth...
So, haven't tried taking along a spouse/girlfriend + dog + 2 weeks of stuff in there yet? A cooler, a couple of Action Packers, couple of jerricans of water and a stove, the bed is sorta cramped for a malamute/shepherd mix (not to mention hot in the summer, the fluff ball that he is). So he rides up front. With just a dog OR wife, regular cab was always fine, but just not both in my experience.

[dieselcruiserhead]

I do agree with you there. No dog luckily :) (I'm sure that will change some day) . I have been in a couple of the late Tacomas, I kept wondering why they didn't offer the standards in the quad cabs for some reason. I drove a friend's TRD 6 speed the other day, amazing the difference between then and even the 1994 technology. Primarily weight but they are really nicely refined I must say... My regular cab weighs so little...