Recommendations on best 'expedition' tire?

[dieselcruiserhead]

Did a brief search and couldn't find anything on it. I have run MTR's before and they are great and have incredible traction but their soft compound ie road wear and high road noise leave little to be desired IMO... I am thinking of going back to a BFG MT.. I like AT's and think these would be a great tire too but am wondering what people's thoughts are for off road, at the MT's really that much more superior? I guess they probably are after being stuck in the mud several times and having a heck of a time getting even the MTRs to self clean... But I rarely do mud, mostly southwest desert and rock? Also load carrying ability? I have been a 15" guy mostly in the past but will now be using 17" rims for this new rig to get ideal backspacing and width. I will be running a 7.5" wide rim which is a tad narrow but the best I can do looks like with my approx budget for wheels (less than $300 shipped and I prefer steel). Beauty of the 35 x 17 is load carring ability, it goes upto D from C and can be inflated to 50 psi. Also weight goes from 2300 to 3000 lbs per wheel. But that said even my 35 x 15's still carried a load very very well, surprizingly well... But 32 psi on my 35's was dangerous, it wanted to slip out particularly in bad weather. I wonder if it will have the same effect with the 17" rims...

I am also considering Cooper discovery which is also a harder compound for better wear and significantly quieter as well than the MTR's....

[Scott Brady]

The BFGoodrich AT KO might be your best overall choice. 315/70 R17

The Toyo Open Country is a nice tire as well, and is available in the size you are looking for.

I am also looking at a more highway / Ice / Snow friendly tire too.

[durango_60]

I have been really impressed with the Nitto Terra Grapplers that I put on my 80. I'm sure that I'll take that statement back the first time I end up in any mud, but on snow, sand, moab rocks, and loose dirt they have been amazing, I might say even better than the BFG MT's on my 60. Time will tell if the sidewalls are up to the task but I have pinched them pretty well with no problems yet.

I was pretty nervous putting on tires that are more frequently seen rolling on chrome 20's as opposed to a trail truck but I have not regretted the decision.

BTW, I'm running 295/75 16's

[dieselcruiserhead]

yes same here, with both the Nittos and the Toyos, most guys around here that have Toyos on big retard jacked pickups, sort of the cool it thing to have or something like that. Puts a bad taste in my mouth about them a little bit. But they do make a 35 x 17. Same with cooper who actually makes a small 315 75 R 17 which measures to about 34" then there is BFG and MTR again... :)

[cruiseroutfit]

I love my AT's, my Tacoma is on the 3rd set, and I will put another set on it in a heartbeat. That thing has been in every corner of the state on trails up to a 4+ without a single problem (knock on wood). I have also been known to carry alot of weight (8 axles from Cali ;))

But, I love the MTR's too... tire noise is a downfall, but you'll get the same out of just about any aggressive MT. The MTR's in my Cruiser have also been all over the state, and they have lasted surprisingly well for a rig that really only sees the street to and from the trails and ~5000 miles a year. You would probably be better of with an AT unless you actually plan to more dedicated wheeling in your next Cruiser than the last... DD'ing will kill MTR's in a hurry on a heavy rig. I bet I only get 15k out of my MTR's... but they get beat on pretty good. Still wouldn't second guess buying them again.

[60seriesguy]

I'm not sure I can make a good recommendation for an expedition tire because it all depends on the overall conditions expected during the trip. Overall, I do agree that you want a strong tire with a relatively hard compound, very strong sidewalls and good load rating. There are several Michelin tires that fit that bill, but they're relatively hard to find in the US and expensive when you can.

I will tell you one thing; if you're building a dedicated expedition rig and plan to cross borders with it, 17" rims is *NOT* a good size. Yes, you'll get better handling on the road, but finding a 17" tire in remote areas will NOT be easy and in other countries, you can forget about it. They may be all the rage these days and come OEM with many different vehicles, but they're still very rare elsewhere. I'd stick to 15" or 16", the latter for a better load rating and better handling.

[gjackson]

Gotta say the 760R16 Michelin XZL is one heck of an expedition tire. But expensive and hard to find these days.

cheers

[Scott Brady]

Graham,

What were your overall impressions of the tire? You are one of the few that has actually spent time with them.

I noticed that you ran split rims with them too. Are they not a radial tire?

[gjackson]

Scott,

The tire is pretty awesome. Not loud on the road, works great in sand and mud and is really tough! Little crazy on wet asphalt though! It is a radial tire and I didn't run it on split rims. Those are Wolf wheels, 1/4" steel and *heavy*! We had a lot of flats on the trip, but that was not due to the XZLs. I went with tubes, and unfortunately the tubes that Big O sold me were really crap! A guy in England tried to warn me off them, but I was feeling poor and off we went to Africa. At low tire pressures the tubes would rupture from the heat, and this is driving at no more than 35mph! Once we got a few flats, it was just a matter of the tubes continually coming apart. We never got a true puncture in the tire, but lots and lots of holes in the tubes. In Gabon I was able to source some Michelin tubes, and those worked much better. It is pretty cool that you can run the XZLs tubless or with tubes, but if you run tubes, get Michelin ones. Nothing else will do!

cheers

[Scott Brady]

This is a good education for me.

What are the benefits of running tubes with a radial/tubless tire?

[gjackson]

Only benefit is ease of getting the tire back onto the bead if it comes off. Didn't have enough air pressure from the compressor to do it, so went tubed. I have since learned tricks for getting a tubeless tire onto the bead, so I think I'll skip the tubes next time. I'll just carry a couple of tubes just in case my tricks don't work.

In terms of drivability, the XZL is great. Being tall and skinny it gives a nice low pressure contact patch, so works very well in soft sand. The compound is pretty hard, so you don't get the grip rockcrawling that you do with, say an MTR, but in mud it crears the lugs really well and gives good traction. Sidewalls are plenty tough! It was a real fight to get the tires off the rims with my tire irons!

cheers

[pskhaat]

A little late to the thread here, let me chime in with a product that has served me extraordinarily well over the years. It is the BigO XT. It's kind of a cross between an AT and MT. Anyway, I can't say I'm a fan of the BigO comporate entity especially its sales folks, in fact quite the opposite, but I have had amazing luck with this product.

It is studdable, without siping performs amazing in snow & ice, and has taken a serious beating by countless offroad trips. The last pair of XTs I had for 6 years and about 60k miles, and still a lot of lug left and are on my 40 series now. I have heard folks really badmouth these tires because of the sidewall, but I'm the only one I know that has ever run them; I never had a puncture and those tires ate many hundreds of miles of rock on their sides, not once in 60k miles had a flat or even a small leak? Lucky? Maybe.

I bought them because by default the XT is a free fix & replacement for the life of the tire, yet never had to employ it.

Anyway, I am now on my second set with only 3k miles in. If you can find a decent store, I by all means recommend you at least take a look at them.

http://www.bigotires.com/extranet/images/products/XT%28new%29009.jpg

Another tire that I don't think you can beat for your $ is the Dunlop Mud Rover:

http://www.thewheelconnection.com/images/tires/dunlop_radialmudrover.jpg

[photoleif]

i'll throw in a belated "me three" for the BFG AT KO. i ran some big o tires earlier, and they didn't hold up to my satisfaction, and as my interest in wheeling grew i moved into the BFG and have been quite satisfied. i was pleased that the warned-about hydroplaning simply did not occur in any way when i drove through a torrential downpour. be sure to rotate frequently and keep your rig aligned, or you'll really wear 'em down. the compound is fairly soft, but it's oh-so-grippy.

i suspect that nearly everyone is happy with the AT or MT they have, so it may be difficult to really get an objective look at the various models. i don't see consumer reports doing an offroad test anytime soon :smilies27

[kdgreene]

OK, so I'm a bit late to this party, but we have stock Yokohama Y742S. These babies are just 10 ply but after driving 38K hard miles across Central and South America we have had only one flat and that was caused by a nail. They are not fancy but if you want something that will hold up, they have my recommendation.

[Colorado Ron]

Late as well! I was really surprised to see the Dunlop Mud Rover listed. It is often overlooked. I must say that these have been a great tire. I have wheeled with several other jeepers and must say that these tires outperformed the following tires in a side by side(apples to apples) comparison:

Goodyear MTRs: Easily ate these for lunch
Nitto Grapplers: Took his lunch money
Big O XTs: another easy take down

I got a set of 315/75/16s for under $140 each. Not bad and I would HIGHLY recommend them.

[Scott Brady]

Ron,

What attributes to the great performance?

Durometer, tread design, carcass segments/deflection, siping, ???.

Were all vehicles modified similarly, weight distribution, articulation, driver experience?

What type of terrain?

Thanks for the help :)

[Grim Reaper]

I am pretty partial to BFG's.

I have run the BFG Muds HARD in places like Tellico and even on a 6,000lb vehicle I had remarkable tread life. The one set I managed to get 30K out of before I sold them to another guy who put an additional 20+K on them.

I have managed to rip out two side walls. Once was a very sharp part of a tree stump and the other was a very sharp rock in a deep water crossing.

I have driven the vehicle in some heavy rains and as long as you drive at speeds that are appropriate to conditions I have never felt I was in any real danger with hydroplaning despite the large tread area.

I have also run the BFG A/T's. This was on my Wifes K5. That truck was more for the street but we had done some off road in it. Mostly sand in FL. Did quite well in soft sand as long as you keep up momentum. What rocks I was on with it they seem fine. Only thing I had any real problems in was Mud. Never stuck but I could tell they didn't pull as well as the MTs on the other K5.
That said I have several friends that run the A/T on the same trails and had good luck.

I think a lot of the side wall complaints come from people who have abused tires like Bias ply swamper's. Yeah a 10 ply tire is going to handle a lot more side wall abuse. In my cast both my flats I don't feel it was a issue with the tire just managed to find the right place to get the tire.

At the end of the day I'm running down the Hwy at 70mph with no vibrations and they are planning their next dental appointment to get the chips fixed in their teeth.

What I have had bad luck with was Uniroyal Tiger paw A/T's. One of our K5's had a fairly new set on it when we bought it. We took two trail rides on them and after the second ride on the way home we had problems. I kept hearing thinks hitting the bottom of the truck. After two stops I finally figured out chunks of the tire lugs were separating from the carcass and that was the source of the noises. Bought the first set of BFG muds the next day.

My Toyota I recently bought has a set on it. The tires are maybe 5 years old and already have very bad checking around the tread and I feel it won't be long before they will be shedding parts of the tread.

My last work van came with the Uniroyal's and they wore out early and never handled as well as the Michelin's I replaced them with. So 3 bad experiences with that brand.

I am about to be in the market for some tires and on this build up (to get rid of the Uniroyal's) I am heavily leaning toward the BFG AT KO in a 33x 10.5x15. I know what I am getting with them.

[Colorado Ron]

Ron,

What attributes to the great performance?

Durometer, tread design, carcass segments/deflection, siping, ???.

Were all vehicles modified similarly, weight distribution, articulation, driver experience?

What type of terrain?

Thanks for the help :)

No sipping. I didnt air them down(though it would have done alot better). Tread design is similar to BFG MTs. Vehicles were all jeeps. The one with Goodyears was a Jeep Rubicon so he was locked front and rear. I honestly still went more places than he did with open axles. Terrain was rockie mtns. So a little mud, mostly rock and snow. 2 full days of wheeling. Everyone in the group wheels fairly good and has decent expierience. Plus we all followed the same lines. Snow drifts that I got thru with little issue required a tug on the Rubicon. Stuff like that. Jeeps were 98TJ, 00TJ, and a 03 Rubi.

[dieselcruiserhead]

Back to the top for this old thread. In the end I decided on the tried and true BFG A/Ts.. I cannot remember if they are K/T or K/O (not aware of what the difference is).. But I believe K/Os. The size I needed is 315/75/R17. As far as 17" concerns, as much as I would like to take my truck down south of the border it is not something I ever plan to do with this particular vehicle at this point. It will simply be too nice and flashy IMO beyond Baja only. So this tire will be OK for my needs stateside despite its expensive price.

I did not mention that in '04 I believe after years of obsessing after Michelin XZLs myself, I finally acquired a set. I have also owned several sets of other common 9.00R16 military tires, mostly from military trailers. A post about my impressions of the XZL is here: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=22774&postcount=17 . I liked the XZLs quite a bit and have a friend with a beautiful build Rover D90 who runs them and they are great on it (other than taking out chromoly axle shafts with hard wheeling due to their weight). But on my FJ55 they just looked goofy, too tall and narrow, and were great on the straights but cornered and handled off camber situations awfully. If you have a light lift suspension with large wheel wells it is an excellent option. But a taller lift (like 4 or 5") and wheel wells that normally fit 35's max, then they look goofy... So I ran them and sold them shortly after...

Anyway, my ideal tire is probably a 34" or so, 11.5 wide but there are very few tires made that satisfy this. I would prefer a narrower contact patch than the common ~12.5" width but have found the ~12.5" width of the bigger 33's and 35's to be OK so I have just run with it.

So, I acquired two 315 75 R 17s fairly cheaply already... Turns out they are a common H2 tire. I let some cheaper ones slip through from when H2s were still popular and a lot of guys were selling brand new BFGs for aftermarket wheels and rims. I lucked out and am probably less than $200 for the two so far - they were that easy to find. But now will probably buy at least two new ones to possibly have some warranty (even at ~$240 a pop) or I might keep trying to acquire some other new ones. My friends with built FZJ80s and BJ42s are running them and they are holding up just great even with a beating and well over 10K miles. Borderline look brand new. So I am excited to run them for now. Good old simple old BFG A/Ts -- who would have thought..

Cheers,
Andre

[Shovel]

Good old simple old BFG A/Ts -- who would have thought..



Whenever it's time for new tires, I shop around, look at what's out there, spend hours tossing it back and forth in my head....


and end up getting BFG A/T's.

Why? Tires are expensive and I already know that BFG's just simply work.

(it's just not as exciting as playing with a new piece of equipment :jumping: )

[overlander]

A little late to the thread here, let me chime in with a product that has served me extraordinarily well over the years. It is the BigO XT. It's kind of a cross between an AT and MT. Anyway, I can't say I'm a fan of the BigO comporate entity especially its sales folks, in fact quite the opposite, but I have had amazing luck with this product.

It is studdable, without siping performs amazing in snow & ice, and has taken a serious beating by countless offroad trips. The last pair of XTs I had for 6 years and about 60k miles, and still a lot of lug left and are on my 40 series now. I have heard folks really badmouth these tires because of the sidewall, but I'm the only one I know that has ever run them; I never had a puncture and those tires ate many hundreds of miles of rock on their sides, not once in 60k miles had a flat or even a small leak? Lucky? Maybe.

I bought them because by default the XT is a free fix & replacement for the life of the tire, yet never had to employ it.

Anyway, I am now on my second set with only 3k miles in. If you can find a decent store, I by all means recommend you at least take a look at them.

http://www.bigotires.com/extranet/images/products/XT%28new%29009.jpg

Another tire that I don't think you can beat for your $ is the Dunlop Mud Rover:

http://www.thewheelconnection.com/images/tires/dunlop_radialmudrover.jpg


I was a BFG MT guy for years with my CJ7. Living in the southwest and hours away from civilization in BLM land whenever I could get there, the BFG's never gave me any kind of problem. Countless times pulling teddy bear cholla cactus nodes off the sidewalls. Been to Moab on jeep safari's a few time, and traveling late at nights on snow covered roads into colorado. Still have the Jeep (not much longer though) and it's on it's 3rd or 4th set. Never had a flat the entire time, despite the abuse.

When I got my first Land Rover (disco I) I got cheap and put the Big O's mud tires on it while living in Tempe, AZ. Started off roading and exploring quite often in it in and around AZ. wasn't too long after that I was coming back from the desert with some people from work I was hosting, and one of the big O's burst open while going 10mph. my first burst ever, couldn't believe it. got out and the sidewall had ripped open so big I could put my fist on it. I instantly went back to the moment I decided to go Big O instead of BFG and kicked myself. I'm a BFG guy for life now.

Now i just replaced my oem michelin X's on my 110 for BFG MT's, and the ying and yang have reached harmony again.

My MT's on the 110 are on the original LR tubed steel rims, and they are holding well. I like that i can carry 255/85/16 tubes if I go on extended expeditions down the road, and can slap one in if need be as a field repair. being tubed rims make them much easier to install and remove. I actuall did the tire swap myself at night. 45 minutes per tire. took 30 minutes to get the michelins off (that's some hard rubber to get off those rims), and 10 minutes to install the bfg's and inflate them (with my portable compressor, all using tyre pliers. gave me comfort in knowing I could remove, repair and replace the tires, as well as install tubes if needed, in field conditions if I ever needed the skill.

tires are balanced with Equal. still running smooth as of today.

[kcowyo]

Whenever it's time for new tires, I shop around, look at what's out there, spend hours tossing it back and forth in my head....


and end up getting BFG A/T's.



Me too....:o

But I swear, really, truly, the next set is gonna be the TrXus MT's. I'm serious, promise, I'm gonna do it. Stop laughing....

[DaveInDenver]

Me too....:o

But I swear, really, truly, the next set is gonna be the TrXus MT's. I'm serious, promise, I'm gonna do it. Stop laughing....
You'll come back to the AT fold. Oh, you will. First snow packed road on MT treads always reminds me why I love the BFG AT so much for all around.

[dieselcruiserhead]

Back east in Vermont and New Hampshire, etc, I actually loved running swampers. I ran 34 x 9.5 R 15s. Had a super low lift (tires were narrow enough that I got by with very small lift, 2" or less. And they did killer, right to the bottom of any mud or terrain like this... It is a great tire. But loud and one time at about 65, one of the lugs flew off into a wheel well, exposing thick metal layering. I thought it was the loudest backfire or some other explosion. Still held air and wheeled excellently, wire exposed, for years. I guess I saw direct reason why you are supposed to keep them under 60mph. Testiment to complete over built nature of Super Swampers. But I probably won't not run again personally...

[kcowyo]

You'll come back to the AT fold. Oh, you will. First snow packed road on MT treads always reminds me why I love the BFG AT so much for all around.

It's the reviews of the TrXus' performance in the snow that have me so amped to try them. I'm gonna do it....

[TJVach]

Back east in Vermont and New Hampshire, etc, I actually loved running swampers. I ran 34 x 9.5 R 15s. Had a super low lift (tires were narrow enough that I got by with very small lift, 2" or less. And they did killer, right to the bottom of any mud or terrain like this... It is a great tire. But loud and one time at about 65, one of the lugs flew off into a wheel well, exposing thick metal layering. I thought it was the loudest backfire or some other explosion. Still held air and wheeled excellently, wire exposed, for years. I guess I saw direct reason why you are supposed to keep them under 60mph. Testiment to complete over built nature of Super Swampers. But I probably won't not run again personally...

Just out of curiosity, which swampers did you run ie. Radial TSL, SSR, Bogger etc.??? I was thinking about running them (SSR's) on my Jeep TJ, but still haven't made up my mind. It's a light truck so tires are totally different then you folks with heavier vehicles.

[dieselcruiserhead]

TSL radials. This was on a fairly heavy FJ40...

[DaveInDenver]

It's the reviews of the TrXus' performance in the snow that have me so amped to try them. I'm gonna do it....
Interesting, very interesting. Doesn't matter in the end, no tall-n-skinny sizes on 15" rims. Why do so few places make 33x9.50/10.50? Why, oh, why!

[Colorado Ron]

FWIW those Trxus are what Im running on the Pinzgauer. They worked wonderful in that bad blizzard we had here in CO last winter. I was really impressed with their snow plowing capabilities. Also, I believe they are either 8 or 10 ply. So thats a huge plus too. Tough as nails.

[pskhaat]

so few places make 33x9.50/10.50? Why, oh, why!

I'm sad so few tires are now studdable. I realize tire compounds have come a long way but I'm still a very firm believer in studded snow tires. I still will only buy MTs that I can stud.

I've also driven on some of the green diamond tires out on Georgetown Lake and was amazed, did much better than the Blizzaks I had.

[Shovel]

I've also driven on some of the green diamond tires out on Georgetown Lake and was amazed, did much better than the Blizzaks I had.

I always wanted to try out the green diamonds... I hear Hi-Tec remolded tires are really quite nice in general....

but I just can't justify buying green diamonds in Phoenix, and when I did live around significant cold weather I didn't know about 'em :)

[njtaco]

Me too....:o

But I swear, really, truly, the next set is gonna be the TrXus MT's. I'm serious, promise, I'm gonna do it. Stop laughing....

FWIW,

My brother runs 34-12.50R15 in this tire under a '74 International Scout. He absolutely loves them in the snow, especially on the icy roads in town. (Scranton, Pa.) The traction on icy snow has saved him in many near-collisions on the downhill intersections, when cross traffic could not/did not stop. The truck has performed better than planned in this environment, and he attributes this in large part to his choice of tire. His other Scout ran Revos, and he was happy with them too, but suprisingly not as with the Intercos.

Oh, he has yet to need the winch with these tires, but he is pretty conservative off-road, as he generally explores alone (one vehicle.):oops:

[LaOutbackTrail]

The tire I am running on my Xterra is a 31 x 10.50-15 Kumho Road Venture KL78 tire.
http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/kumho/ku_rd_vnt_at_kl78_owl_ci2_l.jpg
http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/kumho/ku_rd_vnt_at_kl78_owl_ci1_l.jpg

They don't look like much, but I have used them in a pretty decent variety of conditions and they have kept great traction.
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n188/glowingeenklr650/Louisiana%20Outback%20Trail/Beasley%20Cem%20Road/IMG_1839.jpg
This trail was mostly sticky clay with pretty decent incline.

They also do well in decently deep silt sand (sand deposited by a flooded creek)
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n188/glowingeenklr650/Louisiana%20Outback%20Trail/Beasley%20Cem%20Road/IMG_1851.jpg

They self clean pretty well even at slow speeds.
Tire wear has been ok, about 1/16-1/8" wear in about 3000k.
I'll report more once i've used them a lot.

Oh and did i mention i only had to pay $114 installed?

[devinsixtyseven]

Did I see 315/75/17? Or did you mean 315/70/17? Because if the former exists it would be potentially really handy, particularly if cheap!

[dieselcruiserhead]

You're right, 315 / 70 / R 17..
Details here:
http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/specs/all-terrain-t-a-ko/44.html

[Funrover]

I love my BFG AT's (ko) they have been through it aall with me and have held up great!!! They are the right amount of soft/hard.... The only real problems I have had with them is thick deep mud! I recomend them to everyone except hardcore mudders! on rocks they do great, water crossings etc.. and the road manners are rather impressive!

[Jeep]

This is a little late but check out the Hankook RT03. I have sold a pile of them for oilfield use and have a very good report back from customers. Nice close M/T pattern so it's fairly quiet but still clears mud good, 10 ply, studdable, good size selection. I've been selling mostly 35x12.50-17's. I also sell BFG, Good Year, Interco, Toyo, General, Pro Comp, and run BFG's, Pro Comps, and Swampers on my own units. I'm going to be replacing my Pro Comp Xtreme A/T's with RT03's on my Dodge 2500 CTD before winter (the P/C's are absolutely scary on ice).

[kcowyo]

FWIW,

My brother runs 34-12.50R15 in this tire under a '74 International Scout. He absolutely loves them in the snow, especially on the icy roads in town...

His other Scout ran Revos, and he was happy with them too, but suprisingly not as with the Intercos.


Good to know. This goes along with what I've been hearing about the TrXus MT's. More of an aggressive AT than a real MT, but their reviews on snow & ice really interest me.

Scranton? Does he work for Dunder Mifflin Paper Co.? ;)

[njtaco]

Good to know. This goes along with what I've been hearing about the TrXus MT's. More of an aggressive AT than a real MT, but their reviews on snow & ice really interest me.

Scranton? Does he work for Dunder Mifflin Paper Co.? ;)

Nope, he runs a CNC machine and trains others on it, in a machine shop. I don't remember the name of the place he works.