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lionsbreath
10-06-2005, 08:20 PM
We are launching the new Jeep Commander at work tonite if anyone wants to stop by and say hello Free wine and food 5pm to 8pm :eatchicke @ Airpark Chrysler Jeep in Scottsdale off the 101 and Frank loyde Wright. Just say you are there to see Joe No Sale pitches from me but I will let you drive it and crawl all over it.
I know I know a toy owner selling Jeeps Well I need something to pull out. Just kidding :xxrotflma :xxrotflma
datrupr
10-06-2005, 10:58 PM
Joe, I might be there. I wouldn't mind checking out the new Commander. I also want a couple of "trail rated" badges to put on the Trooper, because I know from experience that it is "trail rated" :D

And why does Jeep only trail rate their own vehicles? If they are the experts then they should trail rate other rigs as well ;)
datrupr
10-07-2005, 07:22 PM
Joe, thanks for the invite, and it was nice meeting you last night. I am not all that keen on the Commander style wise, but the dash set up is pretty cool. It was a good time and I like the cool shwag I recieved. :D Thanks again for the invite. :jump:
goodtimes
10-07-2005, 08:47 PM
Trail Rated = Mall Rated

Jeep entheusiasts are not fond of the "trail rated" crap. If a stock production vehicle cannont make it over the Rubicon trail unassisted, then it should not carry the jeep name. DC should not "sissify" the Jeep brand just to appeal to a larger market. They have other brands to cover the other segments. They should exploit the reputations of each of the brands they own to increase sales in their respective segments, not to increase sales in different segments. By diluting the brand names, they become unrecognizable, and stand for nothing. In the days of old, if you bought a Jeep, you knew it was a pretty capable vehicle....there was a bar that had been set, and the vehicle had cleared that bar. Now, there is no standard of measurement. "Trail Rated" means nothing. It is a gimmick. This is why you see so many "mall rated" stickers on older jeeps. Jeep entheusiasts are telling DC to take their "trail rated" crap and shove it up their :shakin:


end of rant. Have a nice day.
datrupr
10-07-2005, 09:11 PM
GT, I agree with your rant, that is basically why I stated that my Trooper also is trail rated...By myself. It can go most anywhere any of the stock Jeeps can go (with maybe the exception of a Wrangler) and perform just as well. Along with the Taco's and TLC's, etc.... These makers know that the group of buyers they are catering to know the capabilities of the vehicles they are buying. So, why not also put a trail rated badge on these vehicles? I spoke to Joe about this a bit last night and he can better fill in the reasoning behind the Jeep "Trail Rated" marketing strategy. Which is pretty much all that it is, a marketing strategy IMO. :shakin:

I put the monkey gettin' jiggy in there just for you GT. :D
goodtimes
10-07-2005, 10:33 PM
GT, I agree with your rant, that is basically why I stated that my Trooper also is trail rated...By myself. It can go most anywhere any of the stock Jeeps can go (with maybe the exception of a Wrangler) and perform just as well. Along with the Taco's and TLC's, etc.... These makers know that the group of buyers they are catering to know the capabilities of the vehicles they are buying. So, why not also put a trail rated badge on these vehicles? I spoke to Joe about this a bit last night and he can better fill in the reasoning behind the Jeep "Trail Rated" marketing strategy. Which is pretty much all that it is, a marketing strategy IMO. :shakin:

I put the monkey gettin' jiggy in there just for you GT. :D

I would like "trail rated" better if it was on a different vehicle. I just don't like the deal with skipping out on the long standing tradition of having a vehicle being proven on the Rubicon trail to be replaced with a marketing gimmick. BTW, I think I'm gonna order some "mall rated" stickers for my jeep....I'm just wierd like that.....
Scott Brady
10-07-2005, 11:14 PM
The guy who started "Rubicon Rated" is Bob Lutz. He is a real car guy, and expects vehicles to perform as well as look great. He has a long career of success, including the Viper, PT Cruiser, etc. When he left to go to GM, so did the expectation.
The BN Guy
10-08-2005, 12:19 AM
I've seen some pix of them. Decent but I'll pass. Especially on the expected price.

Like most SUV's nowadays they'll never even see a dirt road.

A buddy of mine has a great sticker on his Xterra - "OHV not SUV".
goodtimes
10-08-2005, 12:55 AM
It's just too bad that Bob Lutz hasn't had the same .....I dunno...hate to call it success....but I guess that is appropriate........over at GM. DC has come a long way, with alot of really innovative vehicles (well, relatively speaking anyway). GM is/has been releasing alot of new vehicles, retiring some old stand-bys, but they just aren't generating the emotion that you saw from DC. About the only exception I have seen is SSR. The rest of the "new" vehicles that they are putting out are really bland. Well, that and they are trying to make EVERY vehicle a luxery vehicle. Some of us still want basic, minimalistic, vehicles....I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I have no need for heated leather vibrating 300 way power adjustable seats with a butt scratch mode....and I certainly don't want one in my basic commuter car.
Scott Brady
10-08-2005, 02:04 AM
Lutz is faced with turning a behemoth that has lost its identity. What is GM? What do they do well? They don't even own hummer, their most identifiable brand.

I just think design and innovation is being stifled by bureaucracy.

At Toyota, an employee on her first day of work can stop the ENTIRE production line is a quality problem is found, and she would be praised for it.
Scenic WonderRunner
10-08-2005, 02:27 AM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I have no need for heated leather vibrating 300 way power adjustable seats with a butt scratch mode....and I certainly don't want one in my basic commuter car.

Now....... Now....... Goodtimes!...........

You know you enjoy a good butt scratching from time to time......you just said that in your post 'cause it sounded good!......I'm on to you!........hehe :elkgrin:
datrupr
10-08-2005, 02:57 AM
Well, anyway... "Trail Rated" or not, I had a good time and met a nice person on this forum. And I did get some free "shwag" (see attachment). I don't really think it is of the highest quality, and it will probably not last for years, but it is always cool to get free stuff.

I was hoping to get free "Trail Rated" badges for the Trooper though.

Thanks again Joe for the invite, I did have a good time, and I will see you on the Broken Arrow run.
goodtimes
10-08-2005, 03:21 AM
Meeting people with similar interests is one of the reasons for boards like this. It is cool when you can meet people that you otherwise would likely never meet...and if you did, you probably wouldn't have a clue that your interests parallel each other...very cool.

"I just think design and innovation is being stifled by bureaucracy."
-->yes, I agree. I have seen it, I have been part of it, I have fought it, I still am fighting it. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. Red tape kills motivation to improve things. The ability and motivation to step outside of that box, see a solution, and be able to impliment it (or sell the idea to the person who has the resources to impliment it) is what seperates the great from the average. Hopefully Lutz can do it again with GM.

And yes, a good butt scratch is nice every now and then. I just don't want my car to give it to me!
flyingwil
10-08-2005, 03:26 AM
...And yes, a good butt scratch is nice every now and then. I just don't want my car to give it to me!

So is that finger lickin' good? :eatchicke

HA! I think I want one of thoose stickers for my Taco too! LOL
lionsbreath
10-09-2005, 04:33 AM
Part of the problem is part of the cure. That is why the Wranglers are changing in 2007. New safty reg state that 2007+ veh. need to have front side airbags so now instead of building a just for a purpose veh. like a wrangler or corvet auto makers need now must focus on new saftystandards first.
lionsbreath
10-09-2005, 04:36 AM
The Commander was tested on the Rubicon as well as all other jeep models. H3 and H2 are tested on the Rubicon as well and from the factory the Comander/ Grand Cher. (same platform) have mor front wheel travel than the last model Grand Cher.
Scott Brady
10-12-2005, 02:45 PM
I priced one out on the web last night, and they are very expensive. Nearly 40k to get the required off-highway goodies. Not interested any longer, though I will test one to rate it performance.

For 40k I can buy a 2003 Land Cruiser. No Brainer IMO.
+ d
10-13-2005, 06:13 PM
is it just me or...
http://img284.imageshack.us/img284/6038/commanderbot5hx.jpg

is the commander a big friendly robot head?
datrupr
10-14-2005, 07:10 PM
:jump: :xxrotflma :jump: :xxrotflma
ShottsCruisers
10-17-2005, 06:44 PM
I would like "trail rated" better if it was on a different vehicle. I just don't like the deal with skipping out on the long standing tradition of having a vehicle being proven on the Rubicon trail to be replaced with a marketing gimmick. BTW, I think I'm gonna order some "mall rated" stickers for my jeep....I'm just wierd like that.....

Hey Brian, please send me a Mall-Rated sticker for my 100, will ya? :hehe:
Scott Brady
10-18-2005, 01:25 AM
So Aaron, what did you think of the vehicle?
datrupr
10-18-2005, 04:46 AM
Scott, Good question, glad you asked. Here it is, the official Datrupr impression on the Commander.

Lets start with the styling. I really feel that the styling of the Commander leaves a lot to be desired. It has, IMO, a really........odd........look to it. I think it is in the realm of most new car styling, you either love it or hate it. As I just stated, I don't like the way it looks. Ground clearance in the stock form on the 4WD looks adequate for a stock vehicle, but it was hard to get a good perspective as all the 4X4's I saw had step bars on them, or at least the ones I remember. There did not appear to be too much hanging down on the underside though, which is a good thing as it has 4 wheel independant suspension. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong on anything Joe, as it was a couple of weeks ago and my memory is fading. The overall size I would say is ideal for expedition duty, roughly the size of an 80 series cruiser.
Interior wise is slightly a different story. Sitting in the drivers seat leaves little to be desired. The seats are comfy with fairly good support, but I can see them getting a little tireing on long trips. They have decent bolstering for trail duty and should hold the driver in place fairly well. I have to say, I love the dash lay out. IMO it is the best part of the vehicle. All the controls are well placed and thought out with decent visibility and pretty easy to operate without having to take your eyes off the road for very long. That, and the styling is really cool. On the upscale model that I looked at it had redundant stereo controls on the steering wheel which makes most used functions convenient. I really liked the on board Nav system, but it looks like it might take a little bit of practice to learn and control with ease. There is plenty of room in the front seats for even large drivers and passengers to be comfortable and still leave decent room in the second row. The third row needs to just go away. Access to to the third row looks to be a challenge even for children, and when up there is not even enough room to let the cat have a comfortable space in the cargo area. Also when up, there is no visibility what so ever to the rear. Which does make the defeatable parking assist a must. The best part of the third row is the ease of use when folding down, and the fact that they do fold flat. Overall, the visibility is a bit hindered with a smaller than what I am used to greenhouse matched with very oversized A, B, and C pillars housing the full side curtain airbag system. I did not drive it though so I can not give you my impression of road manners and power delivery, but if you would like a more in depth review just let me know and I will be happy to take one for a spin for the good of all of our members and guests.
On another note, the command trac four wheel drive system sounds pretty cool. If that system works properly I don't think the vehicle would ever have a need for lockers. It works by transfering power to the wheels that have the traction. So, in theory if you had three wheels off the ground all of the power would be distributed to the one wheel on the ground to provide traction to get you off or over that particular obstical. If it works as well as it sounds DC just may have something. I wonder if Joe will us take one on the Land Rover test track up the street?
+ d
10-18-2005, 05:11 AM
if anyone wants more info on these things check out www.xkjeeps.com (http://www.xkjeeps.com/)

(it's a sister site to the digital grand cherokee bible www.wjjeeps.com (http://www.wjjeeps.com/jmenu.htm))
Scott Brady
10-19-2005, 03:50 AM
Aaron,

Thanks so much for the review. I was really bummed when I found the sticker price. That vehicle is going to need heavy discounts to be competitive.

Too bad...
datrupr
10-19-2005, 03:55 AM
Scott, I agree, I think that it is a bit on the pricey side. To get it outfitted with all the right options it could easily top $40K.
Scott Brady
10-19-2005, 03:58 AM
yeah... You can buy a two year old Land Cruiser for that, which is 50x the vehicle. I can't believe they didnt put the 2.8L CRD in it... That would have got my interest.

If the Trooper goes, right now my choice would be a 2002 4Runner or 2002 Land Cruiser.
ShottsCruisers
10-19-2005, 03:36 PM
yeah... You can buy a two year old Land Cruiser for that, which is 50x the vehicle. I can't believe they didnt put the 2.8L CRD in it... That would have got my interest.

If the Trooper goes, right now my choice would be a 2002 4Runner or 2002 Land Cruiser.

I've read a couple reviews dogging the 2.8CRD. Powerless, gas hog, etc.?
BajaTaco
10-19-2005, 04:53 PM
I've read a couple reviews dogging the 2.8CRD. Powerless, gas hog, etc.?

Me too.
kcowyo
10-19-2005, 06:41 PM
I've read a couple reviews dogging the 2.8CRD. Powerless, gas hog, etc.?

Don't believe it. Go drive one.

The initial fuel estimates were revised from 21/26 to 20/25 after their release. The power should please anyone unless they're comparing it to a full size truck diesel, ie Powerstroke, Cummins, or Duramax. The power to weight ratio is very good and the turbo lag is no more than one would find in a full size diesel.

Quiet, peppy and doesn't smoke or wreak like the familiar diesel offerings.
ShottsCruisers
10-19-2005, 06:49 PM
Don't believe it. Go drive one.

The initial fuel estimates were revised from 21/26 to 20/25 after their release. The power should please anyone unless they're comparing it to a full size truck diesel, ie Powerstroke, Cummins, or Duramax. The power to weight ratio is very good and the turbo lag is no more than one would find in a full size diesel.

Quiet, peppy and doesn't smoke or wreak like the familiar diesel offerings.

Here's a few links for you all:

http://www.consumerreports.org/main/content/display_report.jsp?WebLogicSession=Q1aUvG9C0Ibbpm3 PtZkcOsr6lQk4vvn47skslf132XoJRtfexykv|-7232043187596666948/169937909/6/7005/7005/7002/7002/7005/-1|-8923328724342289482/169937910/6/7005/7005/7002/7002/7005/-1&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=772771&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=389451&bmUID=1129747644984

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef1454f/2158
The BN Guy
10-19-2005, 06:57 PM
That may be a high price but there's a sucker born every minute.
datrupr
10-19-2005, 07:56 PM
My guess is that 99.9% of these will never see anything other than pavement.
kcowyo
10-19-2005, 10:46 PM
Here's a few links for you all:

http://www.consumerreports.org/main/content/display_report.jsp?WebLogicSession=Q1aUvG9C0Ibbpm3 PtZkcOsr6lQk4vvn47skslf132XoJRtfexykv|-7232043187596666948/169937909/6/7005/7005/7002/7002/7005/-1|-8923328724342289482/169937910/6/7005/7005/7002/7002/7005/-1&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=772771&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=389451&bmUID=1129747644984

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef1454f/2158

Re Edmunds and Consumer reports - I feel they are a decent resource for information but I would only use them as a guide, not the final word on any subject, especially Edmunds....

Again, drive it. Tell me your impressions after driving it, like I offered to you.


*The following statement is not directed at Shotts or anyone in particular -*

The bottom line is, if you're the kind of person who wants to like something, you will like it. If you're the type of person who must find fault with something, you won't be happy with anything.
bluerunner
10-19-2005, 10:59 PM
yup datrupr I found that 1% :(
+ d
10-20-2005, 01:03 AM
yup datrupr I found that 1% :(

nah, keep looking...that's all photoshop!



:D
+ d
10-20-2005, 01:18 AM
oh wait i found the 1% here...

http://img315.imageshack.us/img315/4381/rubicon0125ig.jpg

http://img315.imageshack.us/img315/5132/rubicon0137fn.jpg

apparently it was earning its "trail rated" badge as DC flogged it through the rubicon...
Life_in_4Lo
10-20-2005, 01:35 AM
I heard that was the good side and the other side was much worse!

I wonder if they just went down Cadillac Hill to the Springs or did the whole trail... I can't imagine the rr bumper staying clean like that going all the way thru
datrupr
10-20-2005, 04:16 AM
That thing is beat to crap. For $40K I think it should perform much better than that. And I can take my Trooper on the rubicon and have the end result looking the same. I am getting back to the "Trail Rated" bit here. I don't get it. That or it is sending out the wrong perception. Yeah, in stock form it can make Rubicon........ If you don't a little body damage.
lionsbreath
10-27-2005, 04:18 AM
Sorry I have been gone for a bit!!
I enjoy driving the CRD libs. that we have around the dealership and the out preform the v6 lib. a larger CRD will be found in the commander with in the next 2yrs. the base price for a commander is 28/30k and top out around 40k+ we are running 3k in rebates on them right now I am head to the fall D.C. opening for local dealers the first week of Nov. and will gve info on ew items to come from them as I hear. The Quadra drive II system work via front and rear elc lockers that can send 100% of power to any 1 wheel with out any slipping!!!!!!!!! this systme has been out for a few years in different forms. Quadra drive II is on the commander and the grand cher. If anyone ever has any questions please fell free to ask me. The get around 22/25 on the highway with the hemi the CRD lib after break in can get 30-40mpg break in is a key fctor these CRD's get better with time. :exclaim: :exclaim: :exclaim:
+ d
10-27-2005, 04:27 AM
what are the odds that these elec lockers can be retro fitted to Dana 30/35's??? :chowtime:
lionsbreath
10-27-2005, 04:27 AM
Just to add to the mix :ar15:
The Comander has long/short arm front sup. and a solid 3 link rear. It shares its platform with the M class Benz. and the Grand Cher. It comes with 2 4x4 systems Quadra trac II and Quadra drive II. select trac is on lib. and comand trac is on wrangler and lib. Qudra Drive uses elc. locers nd Qudra trac uses abs to limit wheel spin. Commanders come standard with a rear back up system, esp, rollover midigation, side air bags front to rear.and many other standard feats. ask away on any jeep product. I love my taco but I make my money by knowing everything there is to know on Jeeps!!!!!!!!!!!! :gunt: I am D.C. Cert. for jeep and chrysler.
lionsbreath
10-27-2005, 04:32 AM
Sorry the can't be refitted as of yet. It is all done via computer.
new G.C. and Commanders us dana 44's in the rear
kcowyo
10-27-2005, 05:57 AM
a larger CRD will be found in the commander with in the next 2yrs.

Where did you here that? I'm on DealerConnect with Chrysler every day and haven't seen that mentioned anywhere.


the CRD lib after break in can get 30-40mpg break in is a key fctor these CRD's get better with time.

Better double check those figures. Their initial fuel ratings were 22/27, then Jeep scaled it back to 21/26, right as they were hitting the ground. Check a KJ owners forum and you'll find people struggling to get mid 20's for MPG. Hard to say how they'll do down the road since they've only been out for about 4 months....
lionsbreath
10-27-2005, 06:15 AM
there is a crd going into the g.c. in the oversea market. my finger on the pulse Dealer connect doesn't have all the news we have d.c. heads in our store all the time extended testing of the crd got over 30, 40 is way pushing it I will agree. but over 30 is pos. will correct break in..... many benz dis get 30++ mpg with age. and it will be a larger Crd in the comander and G.C. it is a year + away the waters are being tested with the CRD lib. I will see what I learn at fall launch.
ShottsCruisers
10-27-2005, 03:27 PM
what are the odds that these elec lockers can be retro fitted to Dana 30/35's??? :chowtime:

They're not lockers. Lockers would send the power to 2 or all 4 wheels at the same time (not 1).
Scott Brady
11-07-2005, 02:24 PM
John,

The new electric version of the Jeep lockers will send 100% of the power to all tires.


After seeing a few Commanders at SEMA with some mods, I am warming up to the platform. I also sat in one, and spent some time in it. The interior is very nice, and has good ergo.

http://www.expeditionswest.com/equipment/SEMA_05/expedition/thurs/IMG_2335.JPG

http://www.expeditionswest.com/equipment/SEMA_05/expedition/thurs/IMG_2339.JPG
ShottsCruisers
11-07-2005, 02:45 PM
John,

The new electric version of the Jeep lockers will send 100% of the power to all tires.


After seeing a few Commanders at SEMA with some mods, I am warming up to the platform. I also sat in one, and spent some time in it. The interior is very nice, and has good ergo.

http://www.expeditionswest.com/equipment/SEMA_05/expedition/thurs/IMG_2335.JPG

http://www.expeditionswest.com/equipment/SEMA_05/expedition/thurs/IMG_2339.JPG

WOW! I thought they listed them as LSD's?
The BN Guy
11-07-2005, 02:57 PM
I agree. They didn't appeal to me in stock clothes but the mod'd ones do show some potential.
cshontz
11-08-2005, 02:15 PM
new G.C. and Commanders us dana 44's in the rear

Are you sure? All of the pictures that I've seen have had AAM axles in the rear.

http://www.wkjeeps.com/photos/2005_wk_21c.jpg
Scott Brady
11-09-2005, 01:26 PM
Here is an article on the first lift for the Commander: http://www.rockcrawler.com/features/newsshorts/05october/superlift_xkwk.asp
ShottsCruisers
11-10-2005, 08:11 PM
John,

The new electric version of the Jeep lockers will send 100% of the power to all tires.


After seeing a few Commanders at SEMA with some mods, I am warming up to the platform. I also sat in one, and spent some time in it. The interior is very nice, and has good ergo.



Just looked over specs and info on the Commander? Nowhere could I find that Jeep states the diffs are locking. They say they are electronically controlled LSD's. That's not a locker. ???????
cshontz
11-10-2005, 09:50 PM
Just looked over specs and info on the Commander? Nowhere could I find that Jeep states the diffs are locking. They say they are electronically controlled LSD's. That's not a locker. ???????

That is correct. The Wrangler Rubicon is the only Jeep model equipped with a differential that provides a 100% lock.

I watched them demonstrate their "Quadradrive" (or whatever its called) system during the debut of the WJ Grand Cherokee platform. On a closed course, they drove the Grand Cherokee up a slight uphill grade. Small roller platforms were strategically placed in an alternating manner so that only one tire on each axle would have positive traction during ascent. As soon as the Jeep encountered the rollers, it would lose traction and stop for a second - but then the drive power would visibly redirect to the opposing wheels on each axle, and the Jeep would continue with relatively little effort.

Certainly not a locker - more like a glorified LSD, but it still seemed relatively effective. Seemed a bit more intelligent than a plain old LSD. :)
Scott Brady
11-10-2005, 10:15 PM
The differentials in the quadra-trac II use 12v electricity to lock the clutches electronically in the differentials. The locking effect is variable from 0-100%.

I have their technical engineering specification.

This is the same type of system used in the LR3.

I will say though, that the holding power of the magnetic clutch must have a limit, so fitting larger tires, or certain terrain charactoristics would likely result in the clutch sliping. Physics are what they are...
goodtimes
11-10-2005, 10:38 PM
I have their technical engineering specification.



I'd be interested in seeing that someday Scott...assuming it is not covered under a NDA.
ShottsCruisers
11-10-2005, 11:16 PM
I will say though, that the holding power of the magnetic clutch must have a limit, so fitting larger tires, or certain terrain charactoristics would likely result in the clutch sliping. Physics are what they are...

Exactly my thought. :)
Scott Brady
07-25-2006, 08:59 PM
Commander gets the 3.0L diesel for the 2008 model, early 2007 release.

26mpg reported, 376ft. lbs.
ShottsCruisers
07-25-2006, 09:03 PM
I hope the diesel trend continues.
Wanderlusty
07-25-2006, 09:09 PM
Meee toooo.....