Theres a Hithc in the Giddy Up

[wesel123]

I need anyones help fast. WHAT DO I DO??????

Long story short Im buying a Sportsmobile that olympiccop posted up a few weeks ago.

The owner was asking 12500 and we negotiated to 11500. I sent him a deposit to hold it. He is currently on his way to St. George Utah where i am to pick it up. On the way he begain to overheat. He turnd around and is currenlty in Coloroado, Green somthing, not sure of the city name.

He has asked me to pay half the repair bills to the tune of $700 ($1400 total). Apparently the thermostat is bad and had to be replaced, but in doing so the mechanic working on it snaped the bolts holding the thermostat. So they have ot pull the intake manifold and drill and heliarch the bolts, replace seals etc.etc..

The two questions I have are
1) Should I pay the 700 or walk away
2) I feel like the price for the SMB is far but these problems seem to be popping up and Im kinda worried about reliability, so do I suck it up and roll the dice?????

I might be being a little anal but I have my Family to think about in reguards to reliability. Or are the 351 motors relativly bullitproof and these are little gremlins.

Please help

[chop]

Wow, sorry to hear that. That's a tough one.

$1400 sounds pretty steep but removing the intake in limited space may warrant that cost. Others will probably have a better idea on that.

I guess I would make my final decision based on the milage of the van and my willingnes to accept some repairs as they will inevitably arise. If it has a lot of miles the engine will have to be re-built or replaced sooner rather than later and that may factor into your decision. There is nothing inherently wrong with the 351; they made millions of them, but like all older designs they will wear out faster than the newer engines offered.

All I can say is from my adventures in musclecar restoration anything used and high mileage eventually will put a strain on the wallet.

But that is the trade off between used and new and it sounds like you're satisfied with the agreed upon price. If it were me and I really wanted the van (even after knowing the above) I would offer some money to offset the cost since it could have happened shortly after you took delivery anyway, putting the entire bill on you, and he is helping to get the van delivered to you.

It really is a question only you can answer.

[Lynn]

I think if you agreed to buy the vehicle, and they were delivering it to you, then asking you to pay half the repair cost is not at all unreasonable. Assuming, of course, that you agreed to buy the vehicle as is, no warrantee, then you agreed to buy it with it's faults. If you had picked up the vehicle and drove it home yourself, you would be paying 100% of the repairs.

However, it seems to me that if the mechanic snapped the bolts he should be responsible for any cost over the standard thermostat replacement, but good luck with that one...

[adrenaline503]

I wouldnt pay for it. Its not your truck yet, not your problem. Sucks to be that guy, but I wouldnt pay for the mechanics misake anyway.

[LandCruiserPhil]

Pay 1/2

[Ryanmb21]

No way...don't pay! In this case, the liability lies with him until you take possession. You've never inspected the vehicle, how do you know that problem hasn't existed for months?

Seems completely unreasonable in my eyes, it could be a sign that he didn't put the necessary $$$ into maintenance. I mean by proposing you pay $700 he is risking the propriety of the sale for $11,500....pretty risky....

I would see it as a sign of his financial position, and it would give me doubts about the purchase.

Maybe I'm conservative though.

[olympiccop2002]

Yikes! Sucky for sure! I guess pictures couldn't have foreseen that huh? Sorry I couldn't have caught that for you.

Bjorn

[Fergie]

I think if you agreed to buy the vehicle, and they were delivering it to you, then asking you to pay half the repair cost is not at all unreasonable. Assuming, of course, that you agreed to buy the vehicle as is, no warrantee, then you agreed to buy it with it's faults. If you had picked up the vehicle and drove it home yourself, you would be paying 100% of the repairs.

However, it seems to me that if the mechanic snapped the bolts he should be responsible for any cost over the standard thermostat replacement, but good luck with that one...

Was the guy traveling to Utah with the vehicle no matter what?

If this incident happened after delivery, would he pay half of the repair cost for you?

As I said last night, a $1000 is easier to swallow than a $12,000 mistake.

I say wait for another SMB.

Try to get your deposit back, if not, walk away.

[wesel123]

Was the guy traveling to Utah with the vehicle no matter what?

If this incident happened after delivery, would he pay half of the repair cost for you?

As I said last night, a $1000 is easier to swallow than a $12,000 mistake.

I say wait for another SMB.

Try to get your deposit back, if not, walk away.

No In agreeing with you. I'm gonna give him one more shot and see what he Says. I also wanna hear what the mechanic is saying.

there's another Vehical In looking at, I'll call you later.

Man Nothing is easy is it???

[Lynn]

After a little more thought...

I guess it really boils down to what the original agreement was. Most likely there's your story, his story, and somewhere in between, the truth. I don't know either one of you, so I can only weigh the facts as presented, and that's an incomplete story.

Since you negotiated a final price and put down a deposit, that seems to me like you agreed to buy it, sight unseen. In that case, used vehicle sales are typically "as is, where is" and you would be responsible for all delivery charges including gas and maintenance.

However, if the deal was "bring it down to UT so I can check it out and make sure," then I would say that paying half for the repair is reasonable.

In either of those cases, I think you could reasonably expect to get receipts from the mechanic, and proof of work, so that you know he's not just trying to recoup some of the reduction in sale price.

However, if [the seller] was coming to UT anyway for some reason, and your deposit was truly to hold the vehicle until you could inspect it, then I think you have no responsibility.

Like I said, I don't know either of you, and don't mean to judge your motives, just playing devil's advocate. I hope the three of us can some day sit around a campfire and share a beverage with no malice.

[olympiccop2002]

Whoa Lynn!

I'm not the seller. I just found the SMB up here and posted pictures and info on the vehicle. I have nothing else to do with this sale. :)

Bjorn

[Lynn]

Whoa Lynn!

I'm not the seller. I just found the SMB up here and posted pictures and info on the vehicle. I have nothing else to do with this sale. :)

Bjorn

Oops. Since he said you posted it up, I guess I assumed that you were selling it. See what happens when you assume...

I'll edit my posts.

[wesel123]

After a little more thought...

I guess it really boils down to what the original agreement was. Most likely there's your story, his story, and somewhere in between, the truth. I don't know either one of you, so I can only weigh the facts as presented, and that's an incomplete story.

Since you negotiated a final price and put down a deposit, that seems to me like you agreed to buy it, sight unseen. In that case, used vehicle sales are typically "as is, where is" and you would be responsible for all delivery charges including gas and maintenance.

However, if the deal was "bring it down to UT so I can check it out and make sure," then I would say that paying half for the repair is reasonable.

In either of those cases, I think you could reasonably expect to get receipts from the mechanic, and proof of work, so that you know he's not just trying to recoup some of the reduction in sale price.

However, if OlympicCop was coming to UT anyway for some reason, and your deposit was truely to hold the vehicle until you could inspect it, then I think you have no responsibility.

Like I said, I don't know either of you, and don't mean to judge your motives, just playing devil's advocate. I hope the three of us can some day sit around a campfire and share a beverage with no malice.

Olympiccop is not the seller. He was kind enough to take some pics for me. to clear the air I don't belive the seller is trying to cheat me. I think he feels that he is already selling the SMB at a low price and feels it only far I pay for part of it.

To be honest my biggest problem revolves around me buying a lemon???? It this a sign of things to come or shoudl I take this as a sign???

And yes the gentleman is moving to Utah but he was saying that he didnt have to bring it due to the fact that after I gave him the deposit he had 2 other interested buyers.

[chet]

to those saying that its the mechanics mistake? BS! A stuck bolt is a stuck bolt and getting a tstat out of a van is never fun. I would say tell the seller you will pay 1/2 upon inspection of the vehicle and purchase so you will give him more for the final sale price and he pays the bill to the mechanic.

[chop]

Olympiccop is not the seller. He was kind enough to take some pics for me. to clear the air I don't belive the seller is trying to cheat me. I think he feels that he is already selling the SMB at a low price and feels it only far I pay for part of it.

To be honest my biggest problem revolves around me buying a lemon???? It this a sign of things to come or shoudl I take this as a sign???

And yes the gentleman is moving to Utah but he was saying that he didnt have to bring it due to the fact that after I gave him the deposit he had 2 other interested buyers.

I'm not sure there is an answer to the lemon question that anyone could definitively answer. Chit happens, sometimes often enough that the lemon tag might fit. I feel for the price and the fact you feel he is not cheating you, that you may want to help allay some of the cost if, and that's a big if, you decide you want the van.

If you do decide you want it then you might consider offering 1/3 of the final bill. I'd leave the remaining 2/3 to be negotiated between the seller and mechanic. I agree with Chet that the mechanic can't be fully blamed for the snapped bolts. Again chit happens. I've busted my share. I do kind of think he might be padding the bill however, but that would be up to the seller to work out.

Good luck and I hope it works out.

[T.Low]

I realize you said its now a bit more of a question of reliability than anything else, but here are two real examples of how we delt with repairs during the sale process.



I recently sold my '98 Dodge Dakota. We started with my asking price of $8900. In my mind I predetermined a bottom line price of $7500 that I would let it go for. The prospective buyer got me down to $8500, but then said he would like to take it to a local shop he trusted to take a look at it. They, of course came up $1400 estimate of repairs it needed. He asked me to split it with him.

Because of the slow market, (and my high asking price), I hadn't had any calls on the rig, yet, and I wanted to move the truck, I came up with two options:

1. I go back to my "as is" asking price of $8900, split the repair estimate with him, and end up with an $8200 sale.

or

2. From our agreed upon sale price of $8500, I would pick and choose which of the repairs I agree should be done, and split those with him.

Both options came out to about an $8200 sale, so I picked the second option as I thought it would be more diplomatic, and I was still $700 up on my predertimined bottom line ( and the truck had been paid off for many years already).

Result, I am happy, he is happy, and his 16 year old son, who got a beautiful blue Dodge Dakota for his 16th birthday, is extremely happy.




Example 2
My buddy Tim was selling his '99 F-250 diesel. Guy came over and test drove it. Tim says he will take the performance chip out before selling it. Guy comes back and writes Tim a $14,000 check, puts it in reverse and begins to back out of the driveway as Tim waves by with one had while staring at his check for $14k in the other hand.

Truck gets literally half out the driveway and begins to rev as it seems to slip out of gear. Front wheels still in driveway, back wheels in street and the transmisson is gone. Tim walks down the driveway to the truck, sees what has happenned and says to Guy, "Well, I guess thats a deal breaker, isn't it?" and hands Guy the check back. No ****, I kid you not.

Days later, Tim calls Guy and says, yeah, they say its $3500 for the trans. Guy says, go ahead and fix it and I'll still buy it. Tim fixed it for $3500, Guy gave him the check back and owns the truck now.





Moral of the used car sales stories: Buying a used car is always a bit of a roll of the dice. Did you ask the tough questions before hand: repair history, reliability issues, knowing what you know about this truck, would you sell it to your Grandmother. And the base clearing out of the park homer "Are you selling it because its becoming a money pit in its old age?" You've got nothing to loose, ask the questions, albeit matter of factly.

Even if it was in tip top shape, for its age, it could break down on delivery.

I agree with Chet:

to those saying that its the mechanics mistake? BS! A stuck bolt is a stuck bolt and getting a tstat out of a van is never fun. I would say tell the seller you will pay 1/2 upon inspection of the vehicle and purchase so you will give him more for the final sale price and he pays the bill to the mechanic.

[olympiccop2002]

So what did you decide to do? Just curious... :)

Bjorn

[wesel123]

Wow thanks guys for all the advice. I was out of pocket until today but I decided to bring the sports mobile home.

And Im gald I did. We split the cost wich was a repair I would have to do anyway.

Got her home last night and took the day off of work to get the reg taken care of.

Gonna make this short cuz Ive got the dash in pieces intalling a radio and hardwiring the GPS.

Once again thanks for all of your help and advice. :victory:

[Paul R]

After all that we have to see some pics!
I'm glad it worked out for you :D

[wesel123]

After all that we have to see some pics!
I'm glad it worked out for you :D


Tomorrow I Promise!!!!!!!

[Fergie]

Tomorrow I Promise!!!!!!!


cough cough BS cough cough

[adrenaline503]

cough cough BS cough cough

Yea, seriously.

[wesel123]

For all you nasayers;)

And Gavin wheres the pics fo that new baby girl????? Huh cough cough!!!!!!!!

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii188/wesel123/CIMG0333.jpg
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii188/wesel123/CIMG0332.jpg
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii188/wesel123/CIMG0331.jpg
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii188/wesel123/CIMG0330.jpg
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii188/wesel123/CIMG0329.jpg
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii188/wesel123/CIMG0328.jpg
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii188/wesel123/CIMG0326.jpg
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii188/wesel123/CIMG0325.jpg
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii188/wesel123/CIMG0324.jpg

[ujoint]

Great looking van!!

[chop]

Nice van and a good price, even with the giddy-up hitch.

[T.Low]

Sweet van. (thumbs up) Nice score. Now for the muddy camping pics!

[olympiccop2002]

Glad to hear that things went well for you after the little glitch... :) Now go somewhere fun and take lots of pictures for us! :wings: :costumed-smiley-007

Bjorn

[wesel123]

Im gonna work on her all this weekend to get here ready for a Trip On Aug. 2. I cant wait to see what shell do.

Thanks again Bjorn for all your help!!!!!

[T.Low]

Im gonna work on her all this weekend to get here ready for a Trip On Aug. 2. I cant wait to see what shell do.

Thanks again Bjorn for all your help!!!!!


Where are you taking it in August? (Enquiring fellow Overlanders want to know!)