Snorkles

[flyingwil]

Ok, are snorkles really worth the money?

I can see the benifits, for dusty runs, and water fodging. I also think they add a great look to any rig (but that doesn't matter). Living in AZ and seeing a ton of dust when on any run in a goup makes me think it will be worth the money, but I could put that money into some other mods first. Until I make up my mind I am thankful for my amsoil filter, I just clean it after dusty runs.

My ride is my daily driver, and I am concerned about added noise at 75+ speeds. Any issues there?

EDIT: Forgot to ask my othe question regarding rain. During a heavy Monsoon and driving at freeway speeds doesn't a lot of water get in there?

[Nullifier]

Well all I can say is down here in florida snorkels should be the first mod after pull points. I have never had any noise from the snorkel reguardless of highway speeds.

During heavy rain you will get a bit of water in the snorkel while driving but nothing to worry about. It will evaporate out of the system. I have been on some runs in the dry season to sand pits in ocala, Dust city. Anyway I feel it really doesn't help with the standard scoop. Maybe with the extreme air canister on top it would make a difference but not with the basic head. What I have noticed is tons of dragonflys, moths, bees etc in the air box when I clean the filter.

No matter what you do to your truck, a snorkel will get more attention then anything else from the general public. People are truely enamered by them LOL. If it should be your next mod in arizona is hard to say. I guess it depends on what other mods you have done already. I would think in your neck of the woods that you would be better served by suspension or bumpers/winch then a snorkel but I better defer to the S.W. experts on that.

[Scott Brady]

Real world experience:

Water, they work as advertised

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/tacoma/IMG_0432.JPG


Dust, no way, without a prefilter. I think it is actually worse, plus you get bugs. If you turn the head around, then you loose HP (vacuum created)


99% of people who buy them is because of appearance. They look cool as hell.

[dieck]

Ok, are snorkles really worth the money?


EDIT: Forgot to ask my othe question regarding rain. During a heavy Monsoon and driving at freeway speeds doesn't a lot of water get in there?

I suspect there is a big difference between sumberging your intake and sucking water in the engine from rain. For instance, there are water injection kits for the superchargers to lower the air charge temp. So it can't be that bad.

Hydrolock is a different story.

[Brian McVickers]

I spoke directly with ARB about a month ago, I was concerned about the dust issue with my safari snorkel.
They said that a prefilter is not necessary except in extremely dusty conditions. They said that the actual dust intake is not as bad as it seems. Well after sitting in som AZ dust clouds, even spaced up to a mile apart in the line, I would certainly consider getting one. They are easy on and off so you can switc out the heads depending on the conditions you are in.

As for water they said that rain is not a concern, even monsoon at highway speed. The Safari has drainage channels built in for the rain.

And your right, they do look cool as hell. Lifts and tires and other external visual mods look good, aside from their function, but there's something about a snorkel that says this truck will go anywhere you want to go! And it gives you more confidence when dealing with water crossings.

[Scott Brady]

I suspect there is a big difference between sumberging your intake and sucking water in the engine from rain. For instance, there are water injection kits for the superchargers to lower the air charge temp. So it can't be that bad.

Hydrolock is a different story.

I agree 100%... Rain will never be an issue. Most of it is channeled out, and the rest collects at the bottom of the air box, soon to be evaporated.

[datrupr]

I feel that in Az they are not really all that necessary, but I still want one for the Trooper 'cause like everybody says, they look cool as hell! They make your rig look very purpose built. And what better to add machismo to your Trooper than a bad *** looking snorkel.

[pangaea]

I personally have a snorkel on my rig for a couple of reasons. First it does add a bit of safety for water crossings. It certainly doesn't make deep water crossings a good idea, but it adds a certain element of safety. I assume that most people on this forum have petrol engines (myself included) which require more than just a raised intake to deal with more than 20" of water.

The second and more practical reason is dusty environments. I can say from first hand experience that it makes a pretty remarkable difference. A couple of years ago, I went on a trip out to Moab with a few other Land Rovers. My Disco had a freshly cleaned K&N filter, and a raised air intake (Mantec, if it matters), another Disco with us had a K&N filter that we had cleaned at the same time, but was not equipped with a snorkel. When we got back from three days of wheeling out in the desert, the difference between air filters was remarkable. Mine still looked clean and new, while the other Disco owners filter was absolutely filthy. I just wish that I had taken pics of it at the time.

[pangaea]

Just because you can... doesn't necessarily make it a good idea.

[flyingwil]

Cool! I love the feed back. thank you all. :luxhello: It is one of thoose things on the bottom of the to do list.

[flyingwil]

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/tacoma/IMG_0432.JPG




Thats a great picture! At what location was it taken at?

[Scott Brady]

Just because you can... doesn't necessarily make it a good idea.

Great picture Nathan.

When I owned my Discovery II, I drove it UP the Gila River.

Here is the video (http://www.expeditionswest.com/2003Box-Ovens/water.WMV)

[Scott Brady]

Thats a great picture! At what location was it taken at?

It is actually in Prescott. At one of my top secret test locations. I now have two good test locations, but need a moderate trail close, and with little brush encroaching so that I can test new vehicles from the OEM's.

[The BN Guy]

Maybe it's just me but I found another reason. Yes the two mentioned - dust and water, are good, but my throttle response improved. Not significantly but enough to be noticed. The once I removed a resonator in the engine compartment, Stormy sounded nice. Oh, and the sucking sound is pretty interesting as well.

One other nonimportant reason - it looks great and love getting the looks from people driving by.

[flyingwil]

It is actually in Prescott. At one of my top secret test locations. I now have two good test locations, but need a moderate trail close, and with little brush encroaching so that I can test new vehicles from the OEM's.


Ok not to blow it but I can call it from living up there... it is a road in the dells right? As in head torards the airport and turn right at the flagpole. Coming from downtown if you hit old hwy XX (keeping it top secret) you went too far.

Ha! See I used to live there!

[Scott Brady]

Ok not to blow it but I can call it from living up there... it is a road in the dells right? As in head torards the airport and turn right at the flagpole. Coming from downtown if you hit old hwy XX (keeping it top secret) you went too far.

Ha! See I used to live there!

That is it... There is some killer rock climbing and rappels in that area.

My house is about 2 minutes from there, just up the hill from Willow Lake.

[MaddBaggins]

I've put a snorkel pretty much at the bottom of my list. Southern AZ-what water, don't do much offroad in groups so I don't eat anybody's dust either.
After I have done most everything else I want to my rig, then maybe a snorkel.

[kcowyo]

The snorkel is high on my list for my '85, but not for the T100.

High on my list for the dust factor, as I occaisionaly do roll with others, and for the cool/fun factor. It's not 100% necessary for every trip, but its good insurance like sliders, lockers, etc.

[UncleChris]

The second and more practical reason is dusty environments. I can say from first hand experience that it makes a pretty remarkable difference. A couple of years ago, I went on a trip out to Moab with a few other Land Rovers. My Disco had a freshly cleaned K&N filter, and a raised air intake (Mantec, if it matters), another Disco with us had a K&N filter that we had cleaned at the same time, but was not equipped with a snorkel. When we got back from three days of wheeling out in the desert, the difference between air filters was remarkable. Mine still looked clean and new, while the other Disco owners filter was absolutely filthy. I just wish that I had taken pics of it at the time.

The Snorkel will grab air at a higher level than the normal airbox. Because dust gets kicked up into the air and then sinks, more dust is floating around at ground level than at the level of the snorkel intake.

So if you are grabbing low air, you are going to grab more dust. If you grab higher air, you are probably going to get cleaner air.

[flyingwil]

That is it... There is some killer rock climbing and rappels in that area.

My house is about 2 minutes from there, just up the hill from Willow Lake.


That's a Nice area, there. I used to have a few friends that lived up there.

I love the looks of a snorkle! Thanks for all the great feed back.

WIL

[pangaea]

> Great picture Nathan.
> When I owned my Discovery II, I drove it UP the Gila River.

Nice... What you don't see in that picture is that I'm sitting in water up to my knees... inside the truck. ;-)

BTW- How do you get your pictures to display in the message, instead of a link like mine?

[Scott Brady]

Very Camel Trophy Nathan :arabia:


Regarding the display of images:
The best way is to select this button http://expeditionportal.com/forum/images/editor/insertimage.gif in the menu. That will open the [IMG] tag. Then, insert the URL to your image. Next select the http://expeditionportal.com/forum/images/editor/insertimage.gif button again, which will close the image tag.

[pangaea]

Thanks... And thanks to Flyingwil for letting me hijack the thread for my own personal benefit.

And for a quick test pic that has a snorkel in it...

http://www.pangaea-expeditions.com/images/darrylvzpics/VZdarryl48.jpg

[The BN Guy]

Nice looking rig!

[pangaea]

Wish it was mine... Those developing world Land Cruisers are beasts... If I had my choice, I'd have a HD79 Troopie sitting in my driveway right now.

:bowdown:

[Scott Brady]

Wish it was mine... Those developing world Land Cruisers are beasts... If I had my choice, I'd have a HD79 Troopie sitting in my driveway right now.

:bowdown:

You and me both :bowdown:

[Jonathan Hanson]

Me three on the 79!

I have now read several posts on other forums, by Tacoma owners who claim installing a snorkel significantly increased dirt in their air filters, contradicting conventional wisdom. I wonder if the stock fender intake on the Tacoma might actually be better than a snorkel at precipitating heavy particulates out of the air stream before they reach the intake.

I would also expect that a snorkel would reduce power by forcing the engine to draw intake air through such a long passage. The post claiming improved throttle response seems to bely this, however. It is well-accepted that the "deck plate" modification on Tacoma air boxes noticeably increases power, by opening up the intake.

[Jonathan Hanson]

Also, I have to admit that on a purely personal, prejudicial level, my first reaction to seeing a snorkel (or, worse, limb risers) on a vehicle driving around the city is to roll my eyes and think "poseur," at least until I also spot mesquite pinstripes down the sides, like on Scott's truck! Or munched quarter panels.

[The BN Guy]

I'm kinda surprised we have no Strains here! Some nice rigs there as well. Love the Patrol/Maverick! And the Cruiser.

[pangaea]

I have now read several posts on other forums, by Tacoma owners who claim installing a snorkel significantly increased dirt in their air filters, contradicting conventional wisdom.

Out of curiosity, are any non-snorkel equipped Tacos coming to the event in Nov? It might be interesting to see if there's any measurable difference after three days in the desert...

[Scott Brady]

Good idea Nathan... I know there will be.

Not only do I get the dust more, but the bugs too. I think it is just as Jonathan suggests, the stock intake point was very well sealed. In fact, when I removed the fender liner, it was totally clean in there.

I installed the snorkel for two reasons:

1. Water
2. appearance... :o

There are solutions to the dust issue though. Like turning the head around while off-road or installing a cyclone unit.

I certainly feel that the snorkel is worth the investment. I have crossed rivers in Alaska that required them, or you turned around...

[pangaea]

I was brainstorming with Graham the other night about this, and the easiest way that we could think of to measure the difference (although by no means purely scientific since there is no realistic way to keep all other variables the same) would be to -

1. make sure both vehicles are equipped with clean K&N filters,

2. do a before and after weight measure for grams of dust collected.

Like I said, it's not scientifically ideal, since that would involve having both vehicles equipped identically with exception to air intake type, and subjecting them to identical driving conditions (same place in line for convoys, same speed, same engine RPMs, etc). But at least it would give a good approximation... as well as something to talk about around the

:campfire:

[Jonathan Hanson]

I think this might work if you drove a snorkel-equipped vehicle in front of an otherwise identical (tires, especially) stock truck for about five laps up and down a long dirt road like the one to our place, then swapped positions and repeated. You could do an additional run with the snorkel reversed. You'd need a sensitive scale, but the test would be well-controlled.

[p1michaud]

Hi folks,
First I have to say great forum!

I've had a few close calls with the Tacoma while doing some water crossings and have been considering a snorkel for a long time. So, I have a few questions.

1-What other mods do you have to do if you encouter the occasional water crossing between 30" to 40"? I'm thinking alternator, fan, spark plug coil packs, boots and wires here?

2-For those of you with snorkels what have you damaged if anything when you submerged your vehicles?

Cheers :beer:,
P

[flyingwil]

Hi folks,
First I have to say great forum!

I've had a few close calls with the Tacoma while doing some water crossings and have been considering a snorkel for a long time. So, I have a few questions.

1-What other mods do you have to do if you encouter the occasional water crossing between 30" to 40"? I'm thinking alternator, fan, spark plug coil packs, boots and wires here?

2-For those of you with snorkels what have you damaged if anything when you submerged your vehicles?

Cheers :beer:,
P


Hey there! You will want to extend your rear differential breather using the nissan axle breather.... I'll see if I can link it in a bit.

[BajaTaco]

... I think it is just as Jonathan suggests, the stock intake point was very well sealed. In fact, when I removed the fender liner, it was totally clean in there.


FWIW, when I removed my fender liner to install my snorkel, the stock intake tube was filthy with dust.

And I agree that the snorkel on a truck like the Tacoma does not make your vehicle impervious to water damage, as there are electricals that are still vulnerable. But my logic with the snorkel is that it will prevent the intake from gulping copious amounts of H2O and filling the engine with water. If I end up having to replace a computer, or an alternator, I still think it's better than having to add a new engine to the list.

Pierre, that is actually something I am wanting to determine as well. I don't know if there is really any way to waterproof the electrical systems on these Tacomas without quite a bit of trouble. And I have seen them operate successfully under some significantly deep water with only the snorkel in place, so I am not sure that I am going to bother with additional measures or not. I can see maybe sealing up the plug packs somehow, but the alternator would be a tough one. The computer might be able to be relocated to a higher location.

[offroad_nomad]

I'm not sure about the Tacos, but I've seen the computers from 4Runners moved up into the glove box. Sure you lose some storage space, but then again your comuter is about 12" higher.

[BajaTaco]

I forgot to mention that I have always been impressed with the way the alternator is mounted up very high on the Land Rovers. I wish the Tacomas were like that, although I guess the upside is that they do get some nice air circulation where they are, and probably not as much concentrated heat being up close to the hood.

[flyingwil]

Hey there! You will want to extend your rear differential breather using the nissan axle breather.... I'll see if I can link it in a bit.


Here is the link on the breather mod (http://www.customtacos.com/tech/index.php?page=index_v2&id=86&c=3).

Mine has a Nissan Breather, I lost the part number... IF you need it let me know I can hunt down the reciept.

[p1michaud]

Hey there! You will want to extend your rear differential breather using the nissan axle breather.... I'll see if I can link it in a bit.

Hi flyingwil,
No worries that was the first mod I did! :victory:

Chris,
I had read on TTORA about "water proofing" your Tacoma, but no other information was provided. I have e-mailed Scott and he did not suffer any alternator or fan problems during/after the water crossing pic he poster earlier in this thread. I do agree with your thinking about protecting the engine and sacrifcing the alternator or computer. Cheaper than a new engine. I must say that engines are pretty robust since I witnessed 2 hydrolocks this summer. One after the fact, the engine was toast but he was reving real hight when water was sucked in then another stalled the engine while crawling. No immediate problems, but I can't comment on the long term effects except to say that it can't be good. Here is a picture of the stuck.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/p1michaud/Stuck/DSC02671.jpg


Cheers :beer:,
P

[BajaTaco]

Here is the link on the breather mod (http://www.customtacos.com/tech/index.php?page=index_v2&id=86&c=3).

Mine has a Nissan Breather, I lost the part number... IF you need it let me know I can hunt down the reciept.

FWIW, I skipped getting the Nissan part and just pulled the cap off the OEM breather, slipped the hose over the nipple and clamped it tight.

[p1michaud]

Hi folks,
One more question, what type of air filter do you use with the snorkel, stock or aftermarket? :confused:

Cheers :beer:,
P

[Scott Brady]

Both work equally well. I have a K&N in the Jeep and the factory filter in the Tacoma.

[BajaTaco]

Hi folks,
One more question, what type of air filter do you use with the snorkel, stock or aftermarket? :confused:

Cheers :beer:,
P


I like the Toyota OEM paper filters.

[flyingwil]

Hey Wil.......

If you don't want to shell out the money for a full size snorkel.........maybe you could get by with this one?!! ;)

Think of the money you will save.....and best of all......you can still see!

Just Kidding!!!!!! .......hehe


http://www.overtons.com/graphics/products/medium/11242M.jpg


I actually need one of those too! Dang am I broke!

[flyingwil]

Scott or Chris or anyone with the 5FZ and a snorkel-

I currently an running the deck plate mod, what impacts would that have in conjunction with a snorkel? Do either of you have the deck plate, if so do you run with the plate in or out?

Wil

[BajaTaco]

I am not a fan of the deck plate mod myself, but I think if you added a snorkel you could continue to use your deckplate as usual. You would need to make sure that it seals relatively well when the plate is in place though. When you install the snorkel you will need to remove the air box to seal the holes in the bottom and the elbow connection, so you could probably test the seal of the deck plate at that point in time.

[flyingwil]

I personally have a snorkel on my rig for a couple of reasons. First it does add a bit of safety for water crossings. It certainly doesn't make deep water crossings a good idea, but it adds a certain element of safety. I assume that most people on this forum have petrol engines (myself included) which require more than just a raised intake to deal with more than 20" of water.

The second and more practical reason is dusty environments. I can say from first hand experience that it makes a pretty remarkable difference. A couple of years ago, I went on a trip out to Moab with a few other Land Rovers. My Disco had a freshly cleaned K&N filter, and a raised air intake (Mantec, if it matters), another Disco with us had a K&N filter that we had cleaned at the same time, but was not equipped with a snorkel. When we got back from three days of wheeling out in the desert, the difference between air filters was remarkable. Mine still looked clean and new, while the other Disco owners filter was absolutely filthy. I just wish that I had taken pics of it at the time.


Nathan-
Do you guys at Pangaea Expeditions sell the safari snorkel # SS170HF for my Tacoma? If so what's your price?

Thanks,
Wil

[Brian McVickers]

Nathan

On my Discovery II with a V8 I have a Snorkel and an extended breater tube kit that includes the front and rear axles as well as the transfer case and maybe the center diff, I can't remember.

After reading your post from above, and since you know Rovers well; what other requirements and preparations would you recomend for the petrol V8?

Note that my imediate plans are to double check the entire snorkel set up and maybe caulk some of the seams, especially the seam on the engine bay side of the fender.

What about the dielectric grease I have heard about? Where should I put it?

Thanks
Brian

[pangaea]

Nathan-
Do you guys at Pangaea Expeditions sell the safari snorkel # SS170HF for my Tacoma? If so what's your price?

Thanks,
Wil

Wil,

The short answer is yes. Shoot me an e-mail offline and I'll give you the details:

nathan@pangaea-expeditions.com

[flyingwil]

Wil,

The short answer is yes. Shoot me an e-mail offline and I'll give you the details:

nathan@pangaea-expeditions.com


You've got mail :exclaim: I look forward to your reply.

Wil

[pangaea]

On my Discovery II with a V8 I have a Snorkel and an extended breater tube kit that includes the front and rear axles as well as the transfer case and maybe the center diff, I can't remember.


Brian,

I think that I'm going to start a thread on waterproofing your 4x4 in this section... Keep an eye out for it later today.

[Brian McVickers]

Thanks
Great Idea :clapsmile