Trailerable expedition boat

[Mickldo]

Here in OZ there is a huge market for plate alloy boats compared with other parts of the world. I work at a boat building shop http://www.platemaster.com.au/ that builds plate alloy boats.

I personally want to build an expedition boat for myself. I want to be able to head up north and travel around the top of Australia by boat.

The main design criteria are

- 2.5m beam (maximum legal width to tow without oversize signs)

- 3500kg on the trailer (maximum tow weight of my Cruiser)

- diesel powered (just a fan of diesels, no other reason)

- accommodation for myself, wife and daughter

- long range capability

- self sufficient in terms of electricity, refridgeration, etc

- shallow draft

- ability to rest level on the bottom if the tide goes out (big tides up north, 8m+)

- hull strength (I've seen what happens when boat meets rockbar, not pretty)



Now I normally build plate boats so I am more than familiar with their strengths and weaknesses so I am definitely going to be going with plate alloy. I already own a BOC 250R MIG which is what we use to build most of our boats at work. We also use Eutectic MIGs and TIGs but in the spots I need these I'll borrow one of the welders from work.

I love the hull design we use at work too but I know that their might be a better hull for my needs than our normal one. I have been looking at Catamarans too.

A cat will sit on the bottom flatter than a monohull but the design we use has a planing plank so it is better than conventional hulls in this area.

The 7.3m boat we do comes in at about 3500kg on the trailer but that is with only normal amounts of fuel and water on board. I reckon I'll need to get down around the 6m mark to have enough weight spare for all the extras I want. The 6m is also cheaper to build, easier to tow, cheaper to power, cheaper to run, etc. We did one 6m hull (not on the website yet, I'll find some pics at work tomorrow) in a half cab and although it is a little cramped I reckon it would be big enough for my needs.

The max HP for a 6m (according to AS 1799) is 185hp so my preferences for engines are Yanmar 4BY180Z or a Steyr MO174V40. These are to be driven by a MerCruiser Bravo II leg.

I'll go into some more details tomorrow but it is bed time now.

[Mickldo]

Gee, I waffle on a bit don't I?

OK, let me explain a few points.

I love the boats we build at work, there is absolutely nothing wrong with them but there is a couple of design things I want to incorporate where there might be a better hull design to get everything to work.

The main design change I want to make is a diesel/electric hybrid motor. The Steyr sales rep came into work and showed me the latest hybrid motor they do.

http://www.steyr-motors.com/products/pdf/hybrid.pdf

This has got me thinking about mounting one of these in the boat. I always wanted to run a heap of solar panels and a big battery bank so this should work OK.

For the electric motor to run at its most efficient I have been looking at hull designs that are more efficient at displacement speeds. Our hull designer has shown me a couple of catamaran and trimaran designs that might be able to be used. I'm still researching this part.

So at the moment I have a couple of options.

Version 1.0

Platemaster 6m hull with custom built cabin and hardtop.
Yanmar 4BY180Z - MerCruiser Bravo II

Version 1.1

Platemaster 6m Hull with custom built cabin and hardtop.
Steyr MO174V40 with hybrid drive - MerCruiser Bravo II

Version 2.0

Some sort of Cat with twin Steyr MO94K33 with hybrid drive - MerCruiser Bravo II

Version 2.1

Cat with some other breed of motors and hybrid drives (eg - vetus (http://viewer.zmags.com/showmag.php?mid=hggds#/page146/) )

Version 3.0

A fancy trimaran design that my hull designer showed me with motive power to be decided

[Mickldo]

Mick. I'm sure they would be fine on the blacktop but how would you go in sand or hot country? I've seen Patrols struggle towing big vans offroad and the owners have gone to Canters and been really happy.

When we built boats at Noosa Cat for the SAS, the Army would come down and do the offroad trailer testing. Trailers were tri-axle with Army Landrover Defender wheels. The boats were 8 meter cats and they would just flog em out in the bush behind the Unimogs. Most fun I've ever had towing a boat. Actually it was the only time I've ever had fun in a Unimog. Haha. Guess when your not paying for the gas and damages > who cares.

BTW Have been looking at your boats more and more and haven't seen anything better anywhere. Certainly miles better than the one in the pic. I think it was about 21' but that's only a guess. Also I think the wheels on the trailer were 16" Landcruiser rims to give you an idea of scale.

The 6m Platemaster hull I plan on using (if I go with version 1.0) weighs about 2500kg on the trailer whereas the cruiser can tow 3500kg legally. While towing 3500kg boats on the highway down your way I can maintain 110km/h on the Nambour hills.

I could've gone with the 7.3m hull we do which weighs 3500kg on the trailer but I reckon that is pushing it a bit close especially off road. This is the main reason I chose the 6m.

I don't want to go any smaller than the 6m. It is the smallest I'd be comfortable with offshore.

Trailer wise we are looking at building our own aluminium boat trailers at work. We already do aluminium racecar trailers at work ( http://www.allweldmanufacturing.com.au/ ) where we use a special aluminium extrusion that we get custom made. Tyres would be the same size and type as the cruiser, preferably with the same wheel track.

I'm also looking at a full skid trailer rather than multiroller.

[Mickldo]

Here is a link to a hybrid Cat. Way bigger than I want to do but along a similar line.

http://www.dsehybrid.com/

[whatcharterboat]

Hi Mick. Hope you didn't think I was paying out on the Cruisers towing ability. I'm sure you know alot more about what they are capable of, than I do.

Anyway have you got anymore info on the Steyr hybrid, power outputs? prices? electrical consumption etc?

[Mickldo]

The main design criteria are

- 2.5m beam (maximum legal width to tow without oversize signs)

- 3500kg on the trailer (maximum tow weight of my Cruiser)

- diesel powered (just a fan of diesels, no other reason)

- accommodation for myself, wife and daughter

- long range capability

- self sufficient in terms of electricity, refridgeration, etc

- shallow draft

- ability to rest level on the bottom if the tide goes out (big tides up north, 8m+)

- hull strength (I've seen what happens when boat meets rockbar, not pretty)

By using an inboard rather than an outboard I will be able to use a heat exchanger for hot water. The alternators on inboards are usually a bigger capacity than outboards too.

Because of my want to be able to rest level on the bottom I want a sterndrive leg so I can trim and tilt it up enough so the hull will sit flat on the delta pad/planing plank.

I am hoping that having the electric hybrid motor as well will give me extra range. The diesel motor will recharge the batteries while underway and the solar panels can recharge while at anchor. The motors can run independently so hopefully that will provide an extra source of redundancy. Of course if I smash a drive leg I am stuffed. Maybe this might be a good thing for twin smaller motors in the Cat version, two separate drive legs.

[Mickldo]

Hi Mick. Hope you didn't think I was paying out on the Cruisers towing ability. I'm sure you know alot more about what they are capable of, than I do.

Anyway have you got anymore info on the Steyr hybrid, power outputs? prices? electrical consumption etc?

Hi John.

I am waiting for an email from the sales rep in regards to pricing.

http://www.steyr-motors.com/index1.htm

http://www.mcintyre-equipment.com.au/steyr.html

The Vetus link I posted before has some info on the hybrid drives they do.

[Mickldo]

Apparently the electric motors do about 5-6knots. Run time will depend on the number of amp hours in the battery bank. You are supposed to be able to use the same batteries for the house batteries and the electric motor batteries.

I reckon if you could make the hull shape more efficient at displacement speeds you would be able to either get a higher speed out of the motors or to extend the run time. This is why I have been exploring the idea of Cats and Tris.

[whatcharterboat]

Have talked to Macintyre before when I was researching for a replacement motor for the other electric boat I worked on. They are only a few 100 meters from my oldies place in Brisbane. The original motor in that boat got wet through the faulty bilge pump. So I pulled it down and marinised it. It was only an industrial pump motor to start with. That is a DIY way out of it but no where near as good.

I got some guys in Narangba to make up some stainless braided ponytails for the brushes, replaced the bearings, fitted all S/S bolts and made a S/S brush gear cover, then resealed the windings and luckily it was all still OK. I suppose a motor like that would still set you back a couple of grand new and then you still need a speed controller, etc. The ones you buy like the VETUS come with raw water cooling and all the control gear as a complete kit (electric only I talking here not hybrid)

Vetus have a lot of experience with electric propulsion. Have been making electric bow thrusters for years so I'm sure they've got it worked out. A few years back I saw a big electric outboard that they were marketing but I don't think it was too successful.

If you ever go the way of a hybrid or electric with diesel charging don't forget to factor in the battery life into the equation. If you only get say 5 years out of a set it would soon add up.

Also once again the PVLs would be worth considering in this application cause you can walk on the them, in stead of the ones on that boat from Florida

[Mickldo]

I know different hull designs work better at different lengths but this is the boat that got me thinking about using a Cat for this boat. Voyager 1040 review preview (http://www.seamedia.com.au/pdf/previews/BTSENG160_prev.pdf) It is a 10.4m boat that is way too big for my needs but the hull design is very interesting in that it needs only very small motors to push it along at a very reasonable speed using very little fuel. It is a sort of cross between a displacement hull and a planing hull. I tried to get a picture of the hull shape but you have to buy the download to read the whole article.

http://www.seamedia.com.au/pub/index.php

http://www.voyagercats.com.au/home.htm

[whatcharterboat]

Mick The idea of a hybrid boat something is something that I have given a lot of thought to over the last 10 years especially since I started studying Renewable Energy Technology anyway. Displacement hulls are really the only way to go here and to get enough panel area a monohull is probably out too.

I have been talking to our engineer about an idea he has (he's thinking we could build a prototype at work) anyway it is a trailerable cat that narrows to fit on the trailer and pumps out when it's off . It's abit like a houseboat that you can camp in behind the truck. The plans look cool anyway. Probably about the size of the Florida boat boat only 2.5 wide on the trailer.

[Mickldo]

Have talked to Macintyre before when I was researching for a replacement motor for the other electric boat I worked on. They are only a few 100 meters from my oldies place in Brisbane. The original motor in that boat got wet through the faulty bilge pump. So I pulled it down and marinised it. It was only an industrial pump motor to start with. That is a DIY way out of it but no where near as good.

I got some guys in Narangba to make up some stainless braided ponytails for the brushes, replaced the bearings, fitted all S/S bolts and made a S/S brush gear cover, then resealed the windings and luckily it was all still OK. I suppose a motor like that would still set you back a couple of grand new and then you still need a speed controller, etc. The ones you buy like the VETUS come with raw water cooling and all the control gear as a complete kit (electric only I talking here not hybrid)

Vetus have a lot of experience with electric propulsion. Have been making electric bow thrusters for years so I'm sure they've got it worked out. A few years back I saw a big electric outboard that they were marketing but I don't think it was too successful.

If you ever go the way of a hybrid or electric with diesel charging don't forget to factor in the battery life into the equation. If you only get say 5 years out of a set it would soon add up.

Also once again the PVLs would be worth considering in this application cause you can walk on the them, in stead of the ones on that boat from Florida

Yeah I think I'd go for the Steyr or Vetus hybrid if end up going this way.

I was originally planning on having about 3 x house batteries anyway so 1 x extra doesn't bother me too much.

The full length hardtop I had planned will allow me to use the PVL's. I like being able to climb on the roof to get a better view in some cases so normal panels would be a pain.

[whatcharterboat]

It is a 10.4m boat that is way too big for my needs but the hull design is very interesting in that it needs only very small motors to push it along at a very reasonable speed using very little fuel. It is a sort of cross between a displacement hull and a planing hull.

Mick the trouble I think is that if you go for a hybrid you have a lot of weight tied up in the battery bank. The Voyager Cats are great cause they can get away with small engines and they are built light. Big battery banks would just be too heavy.

Used to work for Schoenings back in the 80's They do some nice kit cats now One of their designs is similar to the Voyager but is set up for 2 x small Fourstroke out boards.

[Mickldo]

Mick The idea of a hybrid boat something is something that I have given a lot of thought to over the last 10 years especially since I started studying Renewable Energy Technology anyway. Displacement hulls are really the only way to go here and to get enough panel area a monohull is probably out too.

I have been talking to our engineer about an idea he has (he's thinking we could build a prototype at work) anyway it is a trailerable cat that narrows to fit on the trailer and pumps out when it's off . It's abit like a houseboat that you can camp in behind the truck. The plans look cool anyway. Probably about the size of the Florida boat boat only 2.5 wide on the trailer.

Yeah this is why I have been looking at Cats, especially displacement cats. They do have limitations in some areas but for the hybrid I think they may be better.

It would interesting to see how you make the slide out hulls work. Something like an outrigger canoe? I think I have seen some trihull sailing boats using this kind of idea to trailer them.

[Mickldo]

Mick the trouble I think is that if you go for a hybrid you have a lot of weight tied up in the battery bank. The Voyager Cats are great cause they can get away with small engines and they are built light. Big battery banks would just be too heavy.

Used to work for Schoenings back in the 80's They do some nice kit cats now One of their designs is similar to the Voyager but is set up for 2 x small Fourstroke out boards.

Weight of the batteries is another thing I have been chatting with our designer about.

I'll have to google Schoenings.

[whatcharterboat]

Something like an outrigger canoe?

No Looked more like the DSE /Florida boat. Hard to explain. Imagine just squashing that one together and putting it on a trailer. Had a pop top as well so it wasn't too high when towing.

[whatcharterboat]

Mick had the spelling wrong. It WAS a long time ago. The outboard models are called Prowler Cats. Have a look here:

http://www.schionningdesigns.com.au/www/welcome.cfm

The outboard models are called Prowler Cats.

Still trying to get some info on that air/water cooled fridge too. Haven't forgotten .

Talk to you soon.

John.

[Mickldo]

Mick had the spelling wrong. It WAS a long time ago. The outboard models are called Prowler Cats. Have a look here:

http://www.schionningdesigns.com.au/www/welcome.cfm

The outboard models are called Prowler Cats.

Still trying to get some info on that air/water cooled fridge too. Haven't forgotten .

Talk to you soon.

John.

They are a nice looking Cat. They look to be a very fuel efficient hull.

Now if I could get a hull like that but with a 2.5m beam, enough room for a 2 or 3 berth cabin and weighed less than 3500kg on the trailer............

[Mickldo]

I have had a couple of thoughts about using a Cat for this project.

Cabin space - The Platemaster hull has a high bow which allows us to build a cabin with enough head height to be able to sit upright on the bed along the full length of the bed. Due to the tunnel on a Cat it is very hard to fit a full height cabin on a boat this size without raising the COG too high.

Engine room - With the 4 cyl Yanmar or Steyr diesels mounted in the Platemaster hull we can hide the motor under the transom to give us a clutter free work space. I am not sure how much room there would be in the separate hulls on a Cat this size (6 - 6.5m LOA x 2.5m Beam) to mount the smaller 85hp inboards and hybrids (if I went with a Cat it would only be if I could use the hybrids more efficiently). The whole idea of using the Cat is to get two long slippery hulls to increase the efficiency so if I have to make the hulls too wide I'd be defeating the purpose of the exercise.

Battery weight - Conversely if I make the hulls too skinny and slippery it won't displace enough to support the weight of the batteries needed to run the hybrids.

[whatcharterboat]

Mick Just leaving work now. I'll be on EXpO about 9.oclock our time If you're around late tonight. Talk more about this then if you're up. Have some other idea.

John

[Mickldo]

Our Platemaster hull is a pretty fuel efficient hull anyway (at planing speeds at least, we haven't done any real fuel tests at displacement speeds). We build in trim tabs into all of our hulls as a standard feature. By trimming the motor to the correct level of trim and then using the trim tabs to get the boat trimmed at the right attitude to suit the conditions we can throttle back on the motors to achieve planning speeds down less than 10knots. With our smaller boats, like the 6m I want, we have achieved under 8knots. This is starting to get down to the type of speeds that the hybrids are operating at. I wonder if while you are on the plane you could get the hybrid running at full noise and cut the diesel motor and still keep it on the plane. Hopefully this will allow the electric to run more efficiently than at displacement speeds.

And continuing on with this train of thought, I told you all I waffle on.......

Instead of a Cat running twin 85hp inboards and twin hybrids what about the Platemaster 6m hull with twin 85hp inboards and twin hybrids? This would give twice the power of the hybrids keeping it on the plane easier.

Time to go research engine weights and sizes, BRB.

[whatcharterboat]

Mick Still stuck here waiting for a lift.

When you do the math it doesn't look good. We are talking a serious battery bank and that will rule out planing. Only way to do it is with a discplacment hull. I'll dig up some info for you on electric boats.

Before the net I used to subscribe to a pommie mag called "Electric Boat" so I still have some info lying around here. Next time you are up in the Daintree there is a really nice one that does croc tours just before you get to the place. That little creek just before anyway. That is the same boat as the one I used to worked on but I still think a long cat is the go. Even if you had to assemble it at the ramp.

[Mickldo]

Our Platemaster hull is a pretty fuel efficient hull anyway (at planing speeds at least, we haven't done any real fuel tests at displacement speeds). We build in trim tabs into all of our hulls as a standard feature. By trimming the motor to the correct level of trim and then using the trim tabs to get the boat trimmed at the right attitude to suit the conditions we can throttle back on the motors to achieve planning speeds down less than 10knots. With our smaller boats, like the 6m I want, we have achieved under 8knots. This is starting to get down to the type of speeds that the hybrids are operating at. I wonder if while you are on the plane you could get the hybrid running at full noise and cut the diesel motor and still keep it on the plane. Hopefully this will allow the electric to run more efficiently than at displacement speeds.

And continuing on with this train of thought, I told you all I waffle on.......

Instead of a Cat running twin 85hp inboards and twin hybrids what about the Platemaster 6m hull with twin 85hp inboards and twin hybrids? This would give twice the power of the hybrids keeping it on the plane easier.

Time to go research engine weights and sizes, BRB.

OK, scratch that idea with the Steyrs at least.

http://www.steyr-motors.com/products/products.htm

The 85hp motor weighs 243kg whereas the 184hp motor weighs only 15kg more at 258kg. By the time you add two hybrids and all the batteries it is going to be way too heavy.

Just as a comparison the Suzuki DF175TX we normally fit to this size hull only weighs 220kg.

http://www.hainessuzukimarine.com.au/home/motor_details.asp?id=25

When I was first researching the Steyrs I was looking at slightly smaller motors than the 184hp motor to see if I would be able to save a little weight but they are all the same weight all the way down to the 110hp model which only saves 3kg. So I might as well go for the model that puts out the exact same power as the max power recommended for the hull seeing as there is no weight penalty there.

[Mickldo]

Mick Still stuck here waiting for a lift.

When you do the math it doesn't look good. We are talking a serious battery bank and that will rule out planing. Only way to do it is with a discplacment hull. I'll dig up some info for you on electric boats.

Before the net I used to subscribe to a pommie mag called "Electric Boat" so I still have some info lying around here. Next time you are up in the Daintree there is a really nice one that does croc tours just before you get to the place. That little creek just before anyway. That is the same boat as the one I used to worked on but I still think a long cat is the go. Even if you had to assemble it at the ramp.

The added weight of the batteries and hybrid will hopefully be offset by the reduced person load on board. I can run up to 6 x people @ 90kg with this hull but I only need it for 3 POB. So that leaves me with 270kg up my sleeve.

According to the specs I have read on these new hybrids you can get roughly 6 hours use out of a 300AH bank. At 6knots that works out to be 36nm which is quite a fair way in one stint of discharge. I can then start the diesel (or park in the sun) to recharge the batteries for another stint.

I know it will never take over as a main power source but it will be a handy backup and auxiliary source.

[whatcharterboat]

Yeah If we are just talking about something to tow up to the
gulf or Kimberlies I'd keep it simple and as light as possible . Different story if we are talking about an Expedition Boat but we aren't are we? Then sure a hybrid setup would be great. But up there a fast boat is a plus and a planing hull will be a lot mare compact to tow.

My idea was to have a cat that you could transport a 4x4 on top of. Not the other wat round. A 4x4 that tows a boat.

Camp in the truck on top of the hulls and drive it of on the beach??? Think big Hobie cat . No sails just a small pop top truck sitting in the middle. Maybe 40'.????

[Mickldo]

The added weight of the batteries and hybrid will hopefully be offset by the reduced person load on board. I can run up to 6 x people @ 90kg with this hull but I only need it for 3 POB. So that leaves me with 270kg up my sleeve.

According to the specs I have read on these new hybrids you can get roughly 6 hours use out of a 300AH bank. At 6knots that works out to be 36nm which is quite a fair way in one stint of discharge. I can then start the diesel (or park in the sun) to recharge the batteries for another stint.

I know it will never take over as a main power source but it will be a handy backup and auxiliary source.

Apparently you can also use the hybrids batteries for the house batteries and I was planning on a minimum of 240AH originally (2 x Fullriver 120AH AGMs). The AGMs weigh about 37kg each so even if I run 4 batteries to give 480AH it is only going to be an extra 74kg over my original non-hybrid setup (not allowing for the hybrid motor itself or its controller).

[whatcharterboat]

According to the specs I have read on these new hybrids you can get roughly 6 hours use out of a 300AH bank. At 6knots that works out to be 36nm which is quite a fair way in one stint of discharge.

Mick that's awesome the electric boat I spoke of before would run for about 8 hrs but at 5 or 6 knots and it had a 44o amphr bank at 36 V . 6x 220 amp batteries at about 80 or 90kg each.

Got to go. Talk later.

[Mickldo]

Yeah If we are just talking about something to tow up to the
gulf or Kimberlies I'd keep it simple and as light as possible . Different story if we are talking about an Expedition Boat but we aren't are we? Then sure a hybrid setup would be great. But up there a fast boat is a plus and a planing hull will be a lot mare compact to tow.

My idea was to have a cat that you could transport a 4x4 on top of. Not the other wat round. A 4x4 that tows a boat.

Camp in the truck on top of the hulls and drive it of on the beach??? Think big Hobie cat . No sails just a small pop top truck sitting in the middle. Maybe 40'.????

You sure we aren't related or something? That is another one of my hairbrained schemes.LOL

Our hull designer, Specmar (http://www.specmar.com.au/) , also does landing barges and this is one idea I have been throwing around in the back of my mind for quite a while now too.

http://www.specmar.com.au/Images/large-image/hull4212wd2.jpg

[Mickldo]

Mick that's awesome the electric boat I spoke of before would run for about 8 hrs but at 5 or 6 knots and it had a 44o amphr bank at 36 V . 6x 220 amp batteries at about 80 or 90kg each.

Got to go. Talk later.

Yeah it is something I do need to research further but from what I have found out so far it is looking good in this department. Of course the more batteries I add the better the range but the harder it will be to keep them charged properly.

I am going to go and have dinner now. I'll be back later too.

[Mickldo]

This is the 6m hull I plan on using if I go monohull. This is a 6m we built to survey specs for the local Marine Parks. I haven't got any pics of the half cab we built on this hull on this computer. I am going to have to remember to grab some pics off my computer at work to post up.

http://www.specmar.com.au/Images/large-image/hull1200.jpg

[Mickldo]

Here are a couple of pics of some boats we have done that I do have on this computer.

http://inlinethumb47.webshots.com/42926/2769745050103919311S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2769745050103919311ADVzqc)

This one shows the delta pad/ planing plank and reverse chines of our hulls. Do you like the props ;)

http://inlinethumb15.webshots.com/42638/2210864780103919311S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2210864780103919311EEYsAz)

Same boat to show the size of the thing behind the boss's Patrol. 7.3m LOA 3500kg on the trailer.

http://inlinethumb39.webshots.com/43494/2396450050103919311S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2396450050103919311qxLXdN)

This one is a 7m version.

[Mickldo]

This is my current "trailerable expedition boat".

4.1m Quintrex Dory with a 30hp Mercury

http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/41484/2213148060103919311S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2213148060103919311CnwiMe)

http://inlinethumb05.webshots.com/18116/2669839360103919311S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2669839360103919311xQdioi)

These shots were taken at the mouth of Wathumba Creek up the top of Fraser Island while waiting for the tide to come in enough to sneak in and camp for the night. Have to take 3 extra jerry cans of fuel to do the trip.

[Mickldo]

While I am hijacking my own thread here are a couple more shots of my boat and a mates up at Pancake Creek near the Town of 1770. This trip only needs two jerry cans extra of fuel. You can sneak in halfway in the Cruiser and beach launch it to save a bit of fuel.

http://inlinethumb11.webshots.com/24010/2061418760103919311S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2061418760103919311DLOFNH)

http://inlinethumb24.webshots.com/43799/2755317290103919311S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2755317290103919311KAnwqp)

[whatcharterboat]

You sure we aren't related or something?

Nah . Ever heard of "six degrees of separation"? We just live in parallel universes. Mines full of composites and yours is full of alloy. At least you don't have to go to bed scratching. Haha.

Our hull designer, Specmar , also does landing barges and this is one idea I have been throwing around in the back of my mind for quite a while now too.

http://www.specmar.com.au/Images/large-image/hull4212wd2.jpg

Mick I was thinking more like two big sleek sailing cat hulls with a deck and ramps. Think big car trailer meets oversize Nacra Cat. I've never been a fan of barges in rough water especially if you wanted to transport a high CoG vehicle.

[Mickldo]

Nah . Ever heard of "six degrees of separation"? We just live in parallel universes. Mines full of composites and yours is full of alloy. At least you don't have to go to bed scratching. Haha.



Mick I was thinking more like two big sleek sailing cat hulls with a deck and ramps. Think big car trailer meets oversize Nacra Cat. I've never been a fan of barges in rough water especially if you wanted to transport a high CoG vehicle.

And now I am not a Mechanic any more I don't go to bed covered in grease either.

I saw a good Cat Barge the other day somewhere. Had wave piercing hulls sticking out the front too.

The Specmar Landing craft have vee bottoms the same as their other boats. They go pretty good in rough water.

http://www.specmar.com.au/Images/large-image/4212.jpg

[whatcharterboat]

According to the specs I have read on these new hybrids you can get roughly 6 hours use out of a 300AH bank.

Mick Did I read the Steyr info incorrectly? I thought that they were a 48volt system, so you would end up with 8 x 150ah AGMs x 37 kg = 296 kgs for a 3ooah baterry bank @ 48 volts ?? Is that right??

[whatcharterboat]

The Specmar Landing craft have vee bottoms the same as their other boats. They go pretty good in rough water.


http://www.specmar.com.au/Images/large-image/4212.jpg

Yeah Ok That looks much better once you see them in action. I thought that would have been a slow barge not able to plane at all. Obviously mistaken. Can they still plane with 2 or 3 ton on board? What would that one be rated to carry anyway?

[Mickldo]

Mick Did I read the Steyr info incorrectly? I thought that they were a 48volt system, so you would end up with 8 x 150ah AGMs x 37 kg = 296 kgs for a 3ooah baterry bank @ 48 volts ?? Is that right??

Yeah you are right. I got mixed up with all the stuff I have been reading. I was thinking of the vetus (http://viewer.zmags.com/showmag.php?mid=hggds#/page146/) 24V @ 352AH, 4 batteries, 4.8knots x 6 hours run time.

Of course it makes it harder to rig it up to stern drive if I use the vetus motor.

[Mickldo]

Yeah Ok That looks much better once you see them in action. I thought that would have been a slow barge not able to plane at all. Obviously mistaken. Can they still plane with 2 or 3 ton on board? What would that one be rated to carry anyway?

I am not sure of the specs of these but I am sure they can still plane when loaded. I can ask Rodney if you are interested.

[whatcharterboat]

http://www.specmar.com.au/Images/large-image/hull1200.jpg

Mick This is my fav out of the ones you posted. You mentioned building a full skid trailer instead of rollers. I reckon this is the way to go too. Especially if its an inboard and especially when you start going offroad. The trailer we built for the Army (28' cats behind the unimogs) were full skid and they ran twin 225 Johnno's on pods. When you go inboard I reckon it puts a lot of force on the rear of the hull when it's on rollers. Skids spread the load better which is definitely what you need offroad.

I just built a small trailer for my jet boat that has skids down the sides but plenty of rollers on the keel an I have the skids set high to take most of the load when the boat is fully up on the trailer.

I'm still not real happy with it so I think I'll make a very offroad type of trailer after I finish the boat. That was the Honda Prelude engine and Ausjet pump you saw at work the other day. It's a 15'Stejcraft but I'm going to build pods on either side of the pump so it'll end up about 16' 6". I want to keep it light so that I can tow it to Fraser on the sand.

Don't suppose you have any suitable small /light high revving diesels lying around your workshop?? 100 to 150 hp. I'd abort the petrol engine idea if I could.

[Mickldo]

http://www.specmar.com.au/Images/large-image/hull1200.jpg

Mick This is my fav out of the ones you posted. You mentioned building a full skid trailer instead of rollers. I reckon this is the way to go too. Especially if its an inboard and especially when you start going offroad. The trailer we built for the Army (28' cats behind the unimogs) were full skid and they ran twin 225 Johnno's on pods. When you go inboard I reckon it puts a lot of force on the rear of the hull when it's on rollers. Skids spread the load better which is definitely what you need offroad.

I just built a small trailer for my jet boat that has skids down the sides but plenty of rollers on the keel an I have the skids set high to take most of the load when the boat is fully up on the trailer.

I'm still not real happy with it so I think I'll make a very offroad type of trailer after I finish the boat. That was the Honda Prelude engine and Ausjet pump you saw at work the other day. It's a 15'Stejcraft but I'm going to build pods on either side of the pump so it'll end up about 16' 6". I want to keep it light so that I can tow it to Fraser on the sand.

Don't suppose you have any suitable small /light high revving diesels lying around your workshop?? 100 to 150 hp. I'd abort the petrol engine idea if I could.

Out of all of the hulls we do my two favourites are the 7.3m (black & green one from earlier) and the 6m hull.

They are a real sweet hull.

I am a real fan of skids on off-road trailers. Maybe a heap of rollers along the keel and delta pad but full length skids on the bottom sheets and under the chines.

I'd be looking at a full width pod that extends the bottom sheets back rather than just a couple of add on pods. Most of the boats I've seen with add on pods don't handle real good.


'Fraid I don't have any small diesels lying around. I'd have one grafted into my Suzuki Vitara if I did. I reckon a VW TDi would be ideal for your jet boat.

[Mickldo]

Plans of the 6m hull

http://www.specmar.com.au/Images/pdf/1200views.pdf

[whatcharterboat]

I'd be looking at a full width pod that extends the bottom sheets back rather than just a couple of add on pods. Most of the boats I've seen with add on pods don't handle real good.

Yeah. I didn't explain it well. The Ausjet pumps bolt on to the outside of the transom ( not like a Hamilton) so you end up with about 600mm behind . I was going to extend the hull back on either side of the pump and put a swim platform/duckboard over the top and build in the sides and fill with flotation. So the hull will be fair on the bottom anyway.

I reckon a VW TDi would be ideal for your jet boat.

Top of my list too followed by a MB Vito Tdi and then (don't laugh) but a Hyundai I30 Tdi. Keep your ear out anyway. Once I start making the watercooled exhaust manifold I'll be too committed to change tack. Already bought all the S/S bends for it.

[whatcharterboat]

Mick Just wanted to show you these. This is the chassis we built for a caravan a couple of years back. One of the problems with most trailers offroad is the drawbar dragging. Especially on a boat trailer which has the axle set so far back compared to a something like a camper trailer. This was our solution anyway.

The vans done heaps of Cape trips and its the same one as in the "Plastic Interiors: Repost " thread. I was thinking of utilising this concept in mine if I do one later. But using bent tube or box rather than straight sections like this. The van was a composite shell that was rubber mounted on top. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3290/2960657009_50c71495c3.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3152/2960657017_0a841303ec.jpg

[whatcharterboat]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3213/2960657011_b8f35bf125.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3145/2960657013_015413701e.jpg

[whatcharterboat]

Mick Love the high sides on the 6m. Just awesome. Better than having this happen to you next time you head to the Top End. Haha

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3247/2960657019_9a0a61ff34.jpg

Last time I was in FNQ (cousins have a shack at the mouth of the Daintree) we had just come back from Snapper Island in a little tinnie like yours and we're heading back into the river and my cousin wants to show me this big croc. He has a habit of standing on the back seat and steering the tiller with his foot when we are at trolling speeds.


So its low tide and this croc is a couple of feet above our eye level on a steep mud ledge. Really big sucker too. Don't even know how it got up there. Anyway we are moving in really slowly so we can get in close without spooking it and Johnny goes to turn the boat so we don't hit the ledge and he accidently rolls on full throttle and full lock with his foot. The boat shot straight on its side and very nearly flipped. I was up the bow with my face looking at this massive snout and then landed back on the floor on top of an Ugly Stik which broke. When I looked around Johnny had gone over the back but luckily had one leg caught between the seat and the transom the rest of him was in the water next to the prop still going full noise till I shut it down and dragged him back in the boat. As soon as the revs shot up the croc jumped aside of us and into the drink. Never saw it again. Could have easily landed in the boat with us. We would have really been stuffed if it flipped cause the bank was way too steep and greasy to climb up and the other bank was 100s of metres away.

Sorry for the hijak but thought you would appreciate the humour .

See ya

John

[Mickldo]

Yeah. I didn't explain it well. The Ausjet pumps bolt on to the outside of the transom ( not like a Hamilton) so you end up with about 600mm behind . I was going to extend the hull back on either side of the pump and put a swim platform/duckboard over the top and build in the sides and fill with flotation. So the hull will be fair on the bottom anyway.

Yeah that sounds a heap better.


Top of my list too followed by a MB Vito Tdi and then (don't laugh) but a Hyundai I30 Tdi. Keep your ear out anyway. Once I start making the watercooled exhaust manifold I'll be too committed to change tack. Already bought all the S/S bends for it.

They both sound like good choices too. Those I30's are super fuel efficient.

[Mickldo]

Mick Just wanted to show you these. This is the chassis we built for a caravan a couple of years back. One of the problems with most trailers offroad is the drawbar dragging. Especially on a boat trailer which has the axle set so far back compared to a something like a camper trailer. This was our solution anyway.

The vans done heaps of Cape trips and its the same one as in the "Plastic Interiors: Repost " thread. I was thinking of utilising this concept in mine if I do one later. But using bent tube or box rather than straight sections like this. The van was a composite shell that was rubber mounted on top. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3290/2960657009_50c71495c3.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3152/2960657017_0a841303ec.jpg

Very interesting drawbar idea. That would work really well on a boat trailer because that is where the winch post goes. That's better than the idea I had. I was going to mount a spare tyre or two either side of the winch post on spare spindles and hubs. The idea wasn't to create a roller system for bad ramp over situations but to provide a heavy duty jockey wheel in case the trailer needs to be snatched or winched out separate to the tow vehicle. I was also toying with the idea of somehow mounting the tyres on an offset arm so they could be rotated up out of the way for normal driving.

What type of suspension is that? Load sharing or wishbone?

[Mickldo]

Mick Love the high sides on the 6m. Just awesome. Better than having this happen to you next time you head to the Top End. Haha

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3247/2960657019_9a0a61ff34.jpg

Last time I was in FNQ (cousins have a shack at the mouth of the Daintree) we had just come back from Snapper Island in a little tinnie like yours and we're heading back into the river and my cousin wants to show me this big croc. He has a habit of standing on the back seat and steering the tiller with his foot when we are at trolling speeds.


So its low tide and this croc is a couple of feet above our eye level on a steep mud ledge. Really big sucker too. Don't even know how it got up there. Anyway we are moving in really slowly so we can get in close without spooking it and Johnny goes to turn the boat so we don't hit the ledge and he accidently rolls on full throttle and full lock with his foot. The boat shot straight on its side and very nearly flipped. I was up the bow with my face looking at this massive snout and then landed back on the floor on top of an Ugly Stik which broke. When I looked around Johnny had gone over the back but luckily had one leg caught between the seat and the transom the rest of him was in the water next to the prop still going full noise till I shut it down and dragged him back in the boat. As soon as the revs shot up the croc jumped aside of us and into the drink. Never saw it again. Could have easily landed in the boat with us. We would have really been stuffed if it flipped cause the bank was way too steep and greasy to climb up and the other bank was 100s of metres away.

Sorry for the hijak but thought you would appreciate the humour .

See ya

John

I know exactly how that could happen. I stand on the seat and steer the tiller with my foot too at trolling speeds. At planing speeds I stand on the floor and I have a piece of PVC pipe I jam over the throttle. There has been a couple of times that things have gone haywire. One time my brother was standing up the front too. He had seen me stand up to get a better view of the shallow channel so he decided to stand up too. The motor was screaming as I was trying to keep it on the plane so it wouldn't draw too much water. As I was yelling out to him to sit down as I couldn't see where the channel went and I drifted a bit wide on one of the turns and ran aground. My brother went flying out of the front of the boat head over heals. I couldn't help laughing as he was trying to climb back into the boat all covered in mud. Luckily we didn't have to worry about the crocs that day.

[whatcharterboat]

What type of suspension is that? Load sharing or wishbone?

Both . IIRC I think it was called "Simplicity Suspension". We bought it in as a kit. Has a wishbone facing back like normal at the rear and one facing forward at the front. Then there is a leaf joining the front and rear wishbones. Works really well as you can see and you don't end up with low clearance in the middle. Thats a real drag in the sand tracks. Much higher than an axle or a torsion beam like Alko use.

Did you notice the s/s yacht type rigging bracing the out riggers?? We thought that was pretty cool at the time.

Very interesting drawbar idea. That would work really well on a boat trailer because that is where the winch post goes. That's better than the idea I had. I was going to mount a spare tyre or two either side of the winch post on spare spindles and hubs. The idea wasn't to create a roller system for bad ramp over situations but to provide a heavy duty jockey wheel in case the trailer needs to be snatched or winched out separate to the tow vehicle. I was also toying with the idea of somehow mounting the tyres on an offset arm so they could be rotated up out of the way for normal driving.

Mick that sounds really clever. Cause I'll tow in sand a bit I had thought making a skid that clips into the hitch so that when you have to snatch out, the end of the draw bar won't want to dig in. Also on my wish list is a rear winch so I can push the trailer into the surf and just winch it up without having the waves washing around the wheels of the vehicle. Had thought of a telescoping drawbar but the winch idea won out.

[whatcharterboat]

One time my brother was standing up the front too. He had seen me stand up to get a better view of the shallow channel so he decided to stand up too. The motor was screaming as I was trying to keep it on the plane so it wouldn't draw too much water. As I was yelling out to him to sit down as I couldn't see where the channel went and I drifted a bit wide on one of the turns and ran aground. My brother went flying out of the front of the boat head over heals. I couldn't help laughing as he was trying to climb back into the boat all covered in mud.

Mick Bout 20 years ago I got thrown out like your brother coming in over the Noosa bar right on dusk at full speed. It was only a small punt so there was no front deck to hit on the way over the bow. I just went flying through the air and landed on dry sand. That was about the time I first thought about a jet.

If I was going to do it again I'd go with one of your pre cut kits modified to suit a small Hamilton and run a Tdi for sure. The Stejcraft hull and the Prelude engine were freebies. So I can't complain about the price. You don't see too many jets here.

I did a crayfish season over in West oz in '83. Heaps of shallow reef and big surf so heavy plate jets with big 2 stroke diesels were common. Most of them were around the 10 metre mark. Tell you about it other some time . The last boat is one of the boats I worked on. 42' plate boat with 400hp 2stroke diesel. Really light and did about 30 knots. The shorter boats did about 35 knots with smaller V6 Cummins IIRC.

Probably getting a bit far of track here. Anyway It's been good to air a few ideas about towing boats offroad and types of boats suitable for "Expedition" use.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3146/2963659821_d55f6158a8.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3162/2963660619_fbbb59b6cd.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3248/2964501992_00e3973bc4.jpg

[whatcharterboat]

Also Mick if you get a chance have a look at this http://caravansafloat.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=23&Itemid=37#

The guy came to us with this idea after he'd seen the caravan we built. He wasntwed us to build all the plugs , molds, and the first prototype but we were too busy at the time so he went away , learnt a few skills and did it all himself. We saw him at the last big camping show in Brisvegus earlier this year which looks like where some of the shots were taken.

Good on him for having a go and making his dream come alive.

There is a good shot of it being towed behind a Cruiser too. Most of the gear onboard was 240V running through a big Victron inverter/charger combo unit. I could easily see this doing a trip round Oz on a sturdy trailer like we discussed. The boat would become the camper and not just not be towed by the camper if you get my drift.

[Mickldo]

Both . IIRC I think it was called "Simplicity Suspension". We bought it in as a kit. Has a wishbone facing back like normal at the rear and one facing forward at the front. Then there is a leaf joining the front and rear wishbones. Works really well as you can see and you don't end up with low clearance in the middle. Thats a real drag in the sand tracks. Much higher than an axle or a torsion beam like Alko use.

Did you notice the s/s yacht type rigging bracing the out riggers?? We thought that was pretty cool at the time.



Mick that sounds really clever. Cause I'll tow in sand a bit I had thought making a skid that clips into the hitch so that when you have to snatch out, the end of the draw bar won't want to dig in. Also on my wish list is a rear winch so I can push the trailer into the surf and just winch it up without having the waves washing around the wheels of the vehicle. Had thought of a telescoping drawbar but the winch idea won out.

I'll have to look into that suspension. I like load sharing suspension and I like the independent suspension for clearance off road. We normally use the Alko torsion beams but they don't have much clearance for off road.

I did notice the rigging :)

We change the winches on the boat trailers from the crappy standard winches to a Warn 4700lb. If you had a decent battery mounted on the drawbar you could winch the boat on and then run the cable out forwards to the vehicle and winch the trailer in.

Or probably even better and simpler, because speed is everything in the surf, is to just use a snatch strap to pull the trailer far enough up the beach to get it out of the water.

Having the trailer designed so that it is easy to drive the boat on, like a good vee'd entry and side guiding rollers would speed the recovery too.




Anyway what are you talking about? With the jet drive you won't even need to get the trailer wheels wet. Just drive the boat up onto the wet sand. LOL

[Mickldo]

Mick Bout 20 years ago I got thrown out like your brother coming in over the Noosa bar right on dusk at full speed. It was only a small punt so there was no front deck to hit on the way over the bow. I just went flying through the air and landed on dry sand. That was about the time I first thought about a jet.

If I was going to do it again I'd go with one of your pre cut kits modified to suit a small Hamilton and run a Tdi for sure. The Stejcraft hull and the Prelude engine were freebies. So I can't complain about the price. You don't see too many jets here.

I did a crayfish season over in West oz in '83. Heaps of shallow reef and big surf so heavy plate jets with big 2 stroke diesels were common. Most of them were around the 10 metre mark. Tell you about it other some time . The last boat is one of the boats I worked on. 42' plate boat with 400hp 2stroke diesel. Really light and did about 30 knots. The shorter boats did about 35 knots with smaller V6 Cummins IIRC.

Probably getting a bit far of track here. Anyway It's been good to air a few ideas about towing boats offroad and types of boats suitable for "Expedition" use.


I like jets too and I reckon one of our hulls would be good for one as they have the flat delta pad which would be perfect for mounting the jet.

Jets aren't as fuel efficient as some other drives so that is why I am going sterndrive rather than jet drive. Jets are perfect for some applications though.

[Mickldo]

Also Mick if you get a chance have a look at this http://caravansafloat.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=23&Itemid=37#

The guy came to us with this idea after he'd seen the caravan we built. He wasntwed us to build all the plugs , molds, and the first prototype but we were too busy at the time so he went away , learnt a few skills and did it all himself. We saw him at the last big camping show in Brisvegus earlier this year which looks like where some of the shots were taken.

Good on him for having a go and making his dream come alive.

There is a good shot of it being towed behind a Cruiser too. Most of the gear onboard was 240V running through a big Victron inverter/charger combo unit. I could easily see this doing a trip round Oz on a sturdy trailer like we discussed. The boat would become the camper and not just not be towed by the camper if you get my drift.

Looks interesting. It would only be any good in smooth water which rules it for me but for somebody who didn't want to go offshore it would ideal.

[Mickldo]

The 6m centre console that I posted the pic of earlier in the thread came back to the workshop today. The fuel gauge sender unit isn't working so we are going to rip the floor up and replace the sender for them. We have changed to VDO since we built that boat as we have found them to be a heaps better unit. We will change the sender and the gauge to VDO so they don't have any more problems.

Anyway, having the 6m back in the workshop will allow me to crawl all over it with a tape measure and work out exactly how and where I will be able to mount everything. Having the floor up will let me measure the bilge area for room for the inboard. From the measurements I have taken off the plans I should have enough room but it will be good to double check on a real boat.

[whatcharterboat]

Mick Don't laugh. Years ago when a lot of the lifesavering clubs used to run jet boats they had ladders with the rungs made of fenders pegged down on the beach. The guys would just line them up and run over them at 20 knots plus and end up high and dry.

I put a double pivoting roller a the very rear so picking up the boat from ground level is easy enough anyway.

[Mickldo]

And speaking of different drive systems..........

What do you reckon about surface drives?

http://www.arneson-industries.com/page.php?type=products&id=bravoConversion

Be any good on a diesel powered expedition rig or am I dreaming?

[whatcharterboat]

Mick Dont know if you have seen the new sender BLA are pushing. It is a fully programmable ultrasonic unit. SO the profile of the tank is taken into consideration. They programm it for you or you can buy the hardware and software and do it yourself with a laptop. Can suit any resistance range you tell it to. Is the standard 5 hole stud pattern. Very high tech super accurate sender. Only about $110.

[Mickldo]

Mick Don't laugh. Years ago when a lot of the lifesavering clubs used to run jet boats they had ladders with the rungs made of fenders pegged down on the beach. The guys would just line them up and run over them at 20 knots plus and end up high and dry.

I put a double pivoting roller a the very rear so picking up the boat from ground level is easy enough anyway.

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/6600/tezr2325277000gs4.gif

We are looking at getting some of these trailers for our boats at work. They are made by EZ loader (http://www.ezloader.com/default.asp)

The rollers or skids pivot on swivel crossmembers. They are all self adjusting to suit any boat and because they pivot they make retrieving the boat easy.

[whatcharterboat]

I like jets too and I reckon one of our hulls would be good for one as they have the flat delta pad which would be perfect for mounting the jet. I thought the same thing too.

The 6m centre console that I posted the pic of earlier in the thread came back to the workshop today. The fuel gauge sender unit isn't working so we are going to rip the floor up and replace the sender for them. We have changed to VDO since we built that boat as we have found them to be a heaps better unit. We will change the sender and the gauge to VDO so they don't have any more problem

I know for sure they are compatible with the VDO. Anyway

[Mickldo]

Mick Dont know if you have seen the new sender BLA are pushing. It is a fully programmable ultrasonic unit. SO the profile of the tank is taken into consideration. They programm it for you or you can buy the hardware and software and do it yourself with a laptop. Can suit any resistance range you tell it to. Is the standard 5 hole stud pattern. Very high tech super accurate sender. Only about $110.

I have seen them but I am not sure about them yet. Dunno :shrug:

[Mickldo]

I thought the same thing too.



I know for sure they are compatible with the VDO. Anyway

They were saying that they would program the senders to suit the tank but because every tank of ours is custom made it would make it hard. It would be good to chat to somebody that uses them and get a real world unbiased opinion.

[whatcharterboat]

I have seen them but I am not sure about them yet. Dunno :shrug:

Like I said the best feature is they can suit a special profile or tank shape. A normal sender can only tell you a fluid level but this one can tell you a percantage of full. So if your tank has a reserve sump or even if it tapers at the bottom or is round, it can tell you exactly how much fuel (or water or whatever) you have left.

[whatcharterboat]

They were saying that they would program the senders to suit the tank but because every tank of ours is custom made it would make it hard. It would be good to chat to somebody that uses them and get a real world unbiased opinion.

In that case you should program your own.

[whatcharterboat]

We are looking at getting some of these trailers for our boats at work.

With your workshop why aren't you making your own. I'm sure your boss has looked at it, heh?

[whatcharterboat]

Sometimes we do a 300 litre tank for the motorhomes that is about 2400 long and only about 150mmm high for most of it and fits between and above the chassis rails and then drops down behind the last crossmember to a depth of about 6 or 700mm. So the the normal sender reads above 3/4 for the first 200 litres and then starts to drop quickly when the long section of the tank has drained.

This new sender will be perfect for that application.

[Mickldo]

With your workshop why aren't you making your own. I'm sure your boss has looked at it, heh?

We were researching components to start building our own aluminium boat trailers when we looked at one of these trailers and saw that they used aluminium roller brackets so we contacted them to see if we could get the bracketry off them. We then noticed that they did aluminium trailers with torsion bar suspension and the rollers we wanted. They work out to be a pretty good price too but they need to be shipped over from WA so we need to work out cheap freight otherwise we will go back to building our own.

[whatcharterboat]

Mick Have you actually seen an Arneson surface drive in a boat before? Other than a high speed race/pleasure boat, anyway?. Look like they could be trimmed up to get in shallow but all the ones I've seen have had high speed "cleaver" style props so I wonder why they aren't used more on offshore fishing platforms.

[Mickldo]

Sometimes we do a 300 litre tank for the motorhomes that is about 2400 long and only about 150mmm high for most of it and fits between and above the chassis rails and then drops down behind the last crossmember to a depth of about 6 or 700mm. So the the normal sender reads above 3/4 for the first 200 litres and then starts to drop quickly when the long section of the tank has drained.

This new sender will be perfect for that application.

They'd probably be good for that.

These BEP senders cost a bit more than the senders we use now plus we would need to get the software too. I dunno if it would be worth it. The senders we use are top quality units that don't give us any trouble.

[whatcharterboat]

We've been using OEM Mitsubishi or Isuzu senders in the fuel tanks ( so the clients can get easy plug in replacements) but they cost certainly cost more than the BEP unit. If your tanks have a constant shape (ie paralell side) then it wouldn't be a concern anway.

Being ultrasonic would be another plus because they don't have any moving parts, I suppose.

[Mickldo]

Mick Have you actually seen an Arneson surface drive in a boat before? Other than a high speed race/pleasure boat, anyway?. Look like they could be trimmed up to get in shallow but all the ones I've seen have had high speed "cleaver" style props so I wonder why they aren't used more on offshore fishing platforms.

It probably wasn't an Arneson surface drive but I did see a large (15m-ish) Catamaran with twin surface drives down at the boat harbour the other day. It didn't look like it was a real "high speed" vessel. I was chatting to another guy on another forum and he put me onto these. He used to have one on one of his fishing boats.

[whatcharterboat]

Mick Going over to the thread about refrigeration on your camper.

[Mickldo]

We've been using OEM Mitsubishi or Isuzu senders in the fuel tanks ( so the clients can get easy plug in replacements) but they cost certainly cost more than the BEP unit. If your tanks have a constant shape (ie paralell side) then it wouldn't be a concern anway.

Being ultrasonic would be another plus because they don't have any moving parts, I suppose.

We get the VDO units for a good price. All of our tanks are a different size but they are all pretty much the same shape. Rectangular tank with the bottom shaped to match the delta pad.

The no moving parts is a good point of them, as is their plastic construction (for the electrolysis factor on the alloy boats).

[Mickldo]

Mick Going over to the thread about refrigeration on your camper.

John, I am going to bed.

I will catch up with that thread and you tomorrow. Later.

[whatcharterboat]

I will catch up with that thread and you tomorrow. Later.

No worries. Have a look when you can. I have a big weekend planned so maybe won't be back here till Mon or Tuesday night. Have a good one.

[Mickldo]

OK, I have been promising some pics of the 6m Centre Cab we did. Well I finally grabbed a couple of the pics from work.

http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/40968/2483757840103919311S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2483757840103919311ilzAAW)

http://inlinethumb02.webshots.com/32001/2469356160103919311S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2469356160103919311dCHQdQ)

[Mickldo]

Some more....

http://inlinethumb18.webshots.com/25937/2420879270103919311S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2420879270103919311xCwXNZ)

http://inlinethumb14.webshots.com/41677/2440316760103919311S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2440316760103919311JVxRqV)

http://inlinethumb64.webshots.com/43135/2905337130103919311S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2905337130103919311DagLyb)

You can see how the centre cab has the walkaround deck on each side. I won't have this, I prefer the conventional half cab. By having a half cab you gain extra room between the seats where you walk through to the cab. You can still walk around to the bow but it is up on the gunwale instead of down in the walkway.

You can also see the roller shutter door we use to save room in the cab.

[Mickldo]

If I fit a diesel (not if, when:rolleyes:) I can push the transom back a fair way. On the outboard models you need to leave room to allow the motor to tilt all the way up. With the inboard the back of the transom can be pushed all the way back and the motor will mostly hide in under the transom.

Here are some pics of an inboard diesel we are building at the moment at work. It is a 7m with a Yanmar 6BY260Z.

http://inlinethumb47.webshots.com/42990/2684697380103919311S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2684697380103919311UGdTUM)

http://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/41707/2642152200103919311S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2642152200103919311fCSuoz)

http://inlinethumb61.webshots.com/42812/2057247930103919311S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2057247930103919311GJMdXU)

[whatcharterboat]

Awesome work. For what it's worth Mick, I'm a real inboard fan too.

The 8 metre cats we did for the Army had all the radio masts, radar and GPS antennas on a S/S frame that hinged and was able to lay back on the roof for when you were in transit. A couple of big wing nuts and it was ready to go. That's another thing I think you should consider.

A 6 meter boat is going to sit pretty high on the trailer and want to take out a few trees along the way. So you might have to consider this carefully. Certainly more than you would do a standard model.

Noticed the big winches. The Army trailers big recovery winches too. Maybe 8000lb connected via some double insulated twin O B&S to an Anderson plug at the back of the unimogs. Sure I have some pics somewhere. We built 8 of them for the Special forces to use a support vessels for RIB training.

Looking at the way they sit on the trailer I think that gooseneck idea which could incorporate the winch post would work well too.

[Mickldo]

Awesome work. For what it's worth Mick, I'm a real inboard fan too.

The 8 metre cats we did for the Army had all the radio masts, radar and GPS antennas on a S/S frame that hinged and was able to lay back on the roof for when you were in transit. A couple of big wing nuts and it was ready to go. That's another thing I think you should consider.

A 6 meter boat is going to sit pretty high on the trailer and want to take out a few trees along the way. So you might have to consider this carefully. Certainly more than you would do a standard model.

Noticed the big winches. The Army trailers big recovery winches too. Maybe 8000lb connected via some double insulated twin O B&S to an Anderson plug at the back of the unimogs. Sure I have some pics somewhere. We built 8 of them for the Special forces to use a support vessels for RIB training.

Looking at the way they sit on the trailer I think that gooseneck idea which could incorporate the winch post would work well too.

I don't mind having a fold down targa but that usually means a soft top which will mean a PITA to mount the PVL's.

I suppose I could do a low windscreen with some small clears and then have a folding full length hardtop on a couple of S/S tube targas.

Another advantage of this is reduced weight and a lowered centre of gravity.

Not to mention that it will be easier for me to make compared to the full hard top we make at work. There is a LOT of manhours that goes into making that all alloy roof. Even the rounded corners of the roof are hand formed from aluminium.

Thanks for the idea. I hadn't really thought about that but I am liking it more and more.

[Mickldo]

I don't mind having a fold down targa but that usually means a soft top which will mean a PITA to mount the PVL's.

I suppose I could do a low windscreen with some small clears and then have a folding full length hardtop on a couple of S/S tube targas.

Another advantage of this is reduced weight and a lowered centre of gravity.

Not to mention that it will be easier for me to make compared to the full hard top we make at work. There is a LOT of manhours that goes into making that all alloy roof. Even the rounded corners of the roof are hand formed from aluminium.

Thanks for the idea. I hadn't really thought about that but I am liking it more and more.

OK I reread your post and you were only suggesting the aerials and lights laying back but I thought you meant the roof. Either way I like the idea of the whole roof folding down for traveling.

[Mickldo]

Something like this but hinged so it can lay down for traveling.

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/3422/s21xl2.jpg

[whatcharterboat]

Something like this but hinged so it can lay down for traveling.


Yeah . I was only talking about the antennas and radar, etc. but having the roof go down would be much better (and if you could get the screen to fold down as well that would be the ultimate). To mount the PVLs you would need a hard top that telescopes up/down or somehow hinges. Probably you would have to keep it really light and never walk on it. Remember that they are about 2800mm long x 393mm wide for a 68watt PVL.

Don't use the junction/ termination box they supply you with. I'll show you how to run/cover the wiring when you get around to it. The wiring comes out the top of the panel not the bottom.

How cool would an inboard version of "Bluebella" look (and with the same transom as the 7m one you are working on now)?

[Mickldo]

Yeah . I was only talking about the antennas and radar, etc. but having the roof go down would be much better (and if you could get the screen to fold down as well that would be the ultimate). To mount the PVLs you would need a hard top that telescopes up/down or somehow hinges. Probably you would have to keep it really light and never walk on it. Remember that they are about 2800mm long x 393mm wide for a 68watt PVL.

Don't use the junction/ termination box they supply you with. I'll show you how to run/cover the wiring when you get around to it. The wiring comes out the top of the panel not the bottom.

How cool would an inboard version of "Bluebella" look (and with the same transom as the 7m one you are working on now)?

I reckon the PVL's would fit on the hardtop. By my really rough measurements I'd have over 3m available so the 2800mm PVL's should fit OK.

I like the windscreen style on "Bluebella" but I would add some clears for a bit of extra protection in rough weather.

I am leaning more towards a hinged canopy rather than a telescopic one.

[Mickldo]

I sold my tinny last week to give me extra funds for the when-I-get-a-big-enough-shed-to-start-building-my-boat-account. I am planning on using some of the funds to buy a kayak so I still have a boat of some description. I went kayak shopping today and checked out a heap of different designs. The one I am thinking of getting is a http://www.suncoastkayaks.com.au/suncoast%20kayaks_003.htm They are a cheaper entry level kayak but I reckon I will be able to set it up for the style of fishing I like pretty simply. I can get one of these brand new for a cheaper price than most secondhand kayaks.

One of the local dams is stocked with barramundi but they have motor restrictions and I haven't been able to fish out there for quite a while. Having a kayak will allow me to fish there again. I will be able to roof rack the kayak whenever I visit Fraser Island rather than having to pay double the barge fare to take my tinny on the trailer. The other major reason for me getting a kayak is I will be able to use it as a tender when I build the 6m platey. I'll be able to strap it to the roof of the 6m and use it to get me ashore when I can't take the 6m in due to shallow water.

[David_in_TX]

Here is an alternative Trailerable expedition boat; the C-Dory 25 cruiser.

They are not for everyone, they are relatively slow, and in the chop, you must slow down. But their deep V, entry combined with a flat bottom aft, gives them unique abilities. They have a very shallow draft (12 inches, not including the outboard), they get on plane at a very low speed. They are extremely fuel efficient, and relatively light at 4,800 lbs. on the trailer. The Cruisers are fully enclosed pilothouse boats with true all weather capability. Not offshore boats, but they can go where no other boats can go with the shallow draft, think rivers and lakes with a 2 mile offshore boundary. The Cruiser 25 has a marine head with shower.

http://www.c-dory.com/

Owners forum:

http://www.c-brats.com/

Couple that lived on their C-Dory and toured the USA:

http://www.geocities.com/bill_fiero/

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3076/2753873354_8a6a392f1d_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3165/2753861396_4c414803e6_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3255/2753029119_4efb5cf6f0_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3026/2753879932_38118a7241_o.jpg

[Mickldo]

Whatcharterboat couldn't find this thread so he posted a couple of pics for me in another thread. The photos can be found here....

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=437114&postcount=69

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=437119&postcount=70

I mentioned earlier in the thread how I like the little barges. I have been giving this a lot of thought lately and I am leaning more towards one of the Specmar 6m Landing Barges.

As long as I can get a bike into the front for more exploration possibilities I'll be happy.

The Specmar Landing Barges have the same bottom sheets as our Platemaster Hulls so the performance should be the same.

In the photos John posted the big barge is sitting on the hard. The flat bottom is good for this but the ride would be shocking. Our hull has a 17 degree deadrise which gives a good ride but with our delta pad it can still sit on the hard. For those times where the boat needs extra stability on the hard I plan to add a couple of retractable stabiliser legs under the duckboard.

[Mickldo]

Here is an alternative Trailerable expedition boat; the C-Dory 25 cruiser.

They are not for everyone, they are relatively slow, and in the chop, you must slow down. But their deep V, entry combined with a flat bottom aft, gives them unique abilities. They have a very shallow draft (12 inches, not including the outboard), they get on plane at a very low speed. They are extremely fuel efficient, and relatively light at 4,800 lbs. on the trailer. The Cruisers are fully enclosed pilothouse boats with true all weather capability. Not offshore boats, but they can go where no other boats can go with the shallow draft, think rivers and lakes with a 2 mile offshore boundary. The Cruiser 25 has a marine head with shower.

http://www.c-dory.com/

Owners forum:

http://www.c-brats.com/

Couple that lived on their C-Dory and toured the USA:

http://www.geocities.com/bill_fiero/

<snip>

Thanks for the info David. They look like cool boats.