Hemi engine transplant

[BC Explorer]

Well I finally took the plunge and decided to do a 5.7 Hemi conversion but, now I have to decide whether I put it in my YJ or pick up a TJ and go that route. The draw back with doing the YJ is very few people have done one and its a dated vehicle (albeit in perfect condition). The TJ has been done and proven and with companies like Hotwire and there harnesses that really take the headache out of the conversion. Now this will be my 38th vehicle and about the tenth major swap I've done with such projects as a ZR1 powered 64 Chevelle, a twin turbocharged 93 Mustang with IRS suspension and few WRX turbo charged Impreza's before the were sold in North America. Now I think this is the perfect combination of a great SUV and a awesome powerplant and its still all Chrysler (no bastard build).

I will be researching and collecting the rest of what I need and be asking a lot of advice on this build, so i hope some of you can help me out build my finally project.

So far here is the plan:
-5.7 Hemi (got it)
-545RFE 5speed auto tranny (got it)
-NV241OR transfer case (still need)
-Ford hi-pinion Dana 44 front axle (got it)
-Ford 9" rear with disk conversion (got it)
-New rear crossmember
-Motor mount kit
-Radiator

And If I go with a TJ I will also need
-2005 gas tank
-gauge cluster from 2001-2006 TJ-
-2005 or 2006 emissions equipment
-Hotwire harness
-Bracket kit for axles to work in a TJ

I'll post pics and info of the build as soon as it gets started.

Thanks
Christopher

[XXXpedition]

sounds awesome...either route.
looking forward to the pics!

[BC Explorer]

Thanks
I found my Rubicon (NV241OR) t-case today so now only a few more peices and I can get started. I was also on the phone today with Chris Squier from Hotwire (http://www.hotwireauto.com/) about there Hemi engine harness's and trying to sort out exactly what I need. I'm really looking forward to getting started.

[Root Moose]

If it were me, stick with the YJ. I am admittedly biased though.

The only real draw to the TJ is that it has a coil suspension and potentially a longer wheelbase if you get the Unlimited.

If you are going to build this thing as far as the suspension goes you are going to cut all the factory stuff off regardless of which one you build so that is a moot point IMO.

The extra wheelbase is nice but I wouldn't give up the better looks of the YJ for it. :) Also, to get an Unlimited the budget is creeping up.

Interior wise, IMO the TJ dash is a minus. Dump this machine is a mud hole up to the root of the windshield and you'll appreciate the simplicity of the YJ dash. You may say you'd never do that but sometimes things happen.

An engine swap into a YJ will be simpler too if you care about getting the factory gauges to work. Does the TJ use the Dodge or Jeep style bus? That makes a difference.

It's a very rare occasion when you sell one vehicle to buy another and come out ahead monetarily.

$0.02

FWIW, sounds like we are on a similar path. I'm using a GM drivetrain (old Gen I SBC/700R4) and similar axles (~63" D44 front, FF 61" 9" rear). Still up in the air as to which front suspension to use. Still leaning to the TNT Y-link but if I can find a decent four link front suspension I'll go that way. I'm going to clock a NV241C behind the transmission. 2.72:1 is plenty low for my purposes.

[BC Explorer]

I fully agree with you on the simplicity of the YJ and I really like my alot.
As for the Hemi engine, its easy going in but a little more work to hook up.
After talking with Chris at Hotwire and us going through exactly what I need it shouldn't be to bad. I was at the local Dodge dealer get prices on new Hemi Grand Cherokee exhaust manifolds and the parts guy who knows me ask what I was up to, so I told him and his jaw hit the counter. He reckon's it will be one hell of a ride. As for the suspension, the plan is to go coilovers in the front and soa leaf in the rear. The front will be built using weld on front upper coil over shock mounts (http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/Product.aspx?id=2606) from RockJock4x4 and coilover shocks from
Walker Evans Racing (http://www.walkerevansracing.com/sand.rock.shocks) (part #700-16-010). The rear is a no lift 8 leaf spring pack from Full Traction (http://www.full-traction.com/detail.php?MODELID=2&MAKEID=1&TYPEID=2&PRODUCTID=115&NOTES=).
After every thing is done it should look similar to this coil conversion setup except Hemi powered.
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l171/yuchym/27.jpg http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l171/yuchym/46.jpg

Here is the RockJock setup
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l171/yuchym/154_0709_06_z1997_jeep_tj_wranglerb.jpg

[OS-Aussie]

Chris will give you all the right info. I take it that if you use the YJ you will select the hotrod harness, as for the TJ the year is also something to note as the body harness changed in the later models making it a little easier. The best way to check this part is to look at the computer on the firewall and check if it has three or four plugs. The four plug is better.

You will love the hemi in which ever jeep you select.

You should visit hotwaire and check out some of Chris' dad's hobbie projects.

[Root Moose]

What is the plan for the front suspension?

Three link, four? Radius arms? Purchased or self built?

I'm a fan of rear leaves also.

[ntsqd]

Curious about the choice of Walker Evans C/O when there are so many to choose from.

[dsy]

was at the local Dodge dealer get prices on new Hemi Grand Cherokee exhaust manifolds and the parts guy who knows me ask what I was up to, so I told him and his jaw hit the counter. He reckon's it will be one hell of a ride. [/IMG]

I started out at my local jeep parts guy also with a long list of parts I was pricing out. He asked what I was working on and when I told him I was going to do a hemi swap into my new unlimited wragler he came right out and told me it wont work and I was wasting his time. Needless to say he did not get any of my money. I ordered all my parts online from moparpartsonline.com and saved a bunch of cash over retail plus no tax. All my parts showed up at my door rather than me having to chase them down, which was real nice. Jeep+Hemi=Awsome

[BC Explorer]

Chris will give you all the right info. I take it that if you use the YJ you will select the hotrod harness, as for the TJ the year is also something to note as the body harness changed in the later models making it a little easier. The best way to check this part is to look at the computer on the firewall and check if it has three or four plugs. The four plug is better.

You will love the hemi in which ever jeep you select.

You should visit hotwaire and check out some of Chris' dad's hobbie projects.

OS-Aussie:
It looks like I will be sticking with my beloved YJ after all so I will be going with the hotrod harness if I need it.
I have the original under hood harness from the Ram as well as the under dash harness and fuse block etc...
I have made harness's before for my race cars and I think I will give a try with this harness first, I have really nothing to lose.

ROOT MOOSE:
As for the suspension, it will be self built along with a new skidplate/rear crossmember. I'm thinking something along the lines of a three link setup but, the radius arm idea is not bad. I could maybe use a custom radius arm built similar to the Ford and that would eliminate the top link. Maybe something like what is used on the Toyota Land Cruiser Series 80 like the one pictured below.
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l171/yuchym/control_arm_300.jpg

NTSQD:
The Walkers are proven but, not my only choice. I have been looking a FOX, Bilstien and a few others.

DSY:
My parts guy is pretty good guy and I do agree with you about MoparPartsOnline. The prices are great.

[ntsqd]

FWIW, some feed-back on the damper brands that I have been exposed to:

When I was chasing the '03 MORE Class Champion Class 12 car one of the owners commented that she really preferred the Fox's on it over the SAW's on her pre-run truck. Said that the damping feel was nicer in an unquantifiable way. Somehow smoother, less harsh. Having driven that car for a short distance at speed before the shocks were fully sorted out I can say that it was not harsh.

I've heard lots of shock brand preferences, but I had not heard anyone try to quantify their preference based on ride quality before.

I've also driven the Class 7S with Kings that I currently chase. I wouldn't call it harsh, but it wasn't as pleasant as the 12 car.

The only Bilstein exposure that I have are those on my own trucks. They work well, but I don't push them as hard as the race cars do. One thing that I've experienced and been told about with Bils is that the shafts always seem to be slightly damp. I don't recall either the Fox's or the King's doing that. It doesn't seem to matter though. I don't loose charge pressure and the tiny bit of oil has never been a problem. Just is cause for comment from some folks.

HTH

[Root Moose]

As for the suspension, it will be self built along with a new skidplate/rear crossmember. I'm thinking something along the lines of a three link setup but, the radius arm idea is not bad. I could maybe use a custom radius arm built similar to the Ford and that would eliminate the top link. Maybe something like what is used on the Toyota Land Cruiser Series 80 like the one pictured below.
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l171/yuchym/control_arm_300.jpg

If you are considering a radius arm setup then you must have resolved that the quirks of the radius arm are really not an issue for you. That is the way I am leaning as well. I'd prefer a four link but given how the machine will be used I really don't think it is a big deal in my case.

Call up TNT and get a price on the YJ Y-Link before sourcing any radius arm parts. For the difference in price and what you get (wicked overbuilt belly pan and high clearance arms) I think it may be false economy to build your own if you are at all pressed for time. With everything else going on with a build sometimes it makes sense to "buy time" if you know what I mean. You don't strike me as the super ego rock crawler type that needs to prove he can make his own lug nuts so maybe a purchased setup makes sense. Get it done quicker and spend more time with that cute little girl of yours.

JAT/$0.02

[BC Explorer]

If you are considering a radius arm setup then you must have resolved that the quirks of the radius arm are really not an issue for you. That is the way I am leaning as well. I'd prefer a four link but given how the machine will be used I really don't think it is a big deal in my case.

Call up TNT and get a price on the YJ Y-Link before sourcing any radius arm parts. For the difference in price and what you get (wicked overbuilt belly pan and high clearance arms) I think it may be false economy to build your own if you are at all pressed for time. With everything else going on with a build sometimes it makes sense to "buy time" if you know what I mean. You don't strike me as the super ego rock crawler type that needs to prove he can make his own lug nuts so maybe a purchased setup makes sense. Get it done quicker and spend more time with that cute little girl of yours.

JAT/$0.02


I agree that sometimes it is easier and just quicker to purchase arms already done. The bonus with myself is that we use Solidworks and having CNC machines that do the work for us. I will look into the TnT setup and see what they have to offer. I look into them sometime ago when I built my Cherokee for there Dana 44 truss. You are correct that I'm not really the rock crawling type but, I still need good articulation for some of the terrain the Jeep see's. Also I think the radius arms make for a cleaner setup instead of arms all over the place and adding more clearence under full stuff (compression) especially with exhaust coming down both sides of the engine.

[Root Moose]

Agreed.

Btw, I didn't mean to imply that you would not necessarily be rock crawling with the setup. It was more an oblique reference to guys that get into building a rig and use the excuse that it was "built not bought" for some kind of a strange badge of honour. :D

I'm just in the middle of putting the TNT stuff on my XJ. I have the belly pan on my bench and am modifying it to work with the NV242 (bought used - was for a NV231). It is very robust parts, the arms are incredibly strong.

If you haven't seen it already, this may be the only owner web page about the TNT kit for the YJ:

http://www.projectxj.com/mods/yj/coil.conversion.htm

I like that you don't have to mess around with air shocks with this kit (unless you really wanted to). I'm old fashioned that way I guess.

[BC Explorer]

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out more when I get in town. I'm heading out of town to pick up my t-case and a few odds and ends.
Back soon

[BC Explorer]

Well it looks like the bad economy has caught up with my job and they have decided to start laying people off, I still have my job but it looks like less hours. So till things get a little better and more stable I think its best to hold off on any projects and see what the future holds. The great thing is we only have a mortgage to deal with and savings to fill the gaps.

I will be post up again if any thing changes.

Cheers

Christopher

PS:
When I was young I was told to read a book called "The Wealthy Barber" and learn about paying your self first.
This was the best book I have read and just maybe what gets us through these tough times.

[Root Moose]

PS:
When I was young I was told to read a book called "The Wealthy Barber" and learn about paying your self first.
This was the best book I have read and just maybe what gets us through these tough times.

Yep, worked for us too.

[BC Explorer]

I'mmm back

Well there has been some new developments in the Hemi swap and the biggest is no more Hemi engine. To make a long story short I was made an offer on the Hemi that I just couldn't refuse and tripled my money.
Also work seems not to be as effected as we first thought and now seem to have to much work (no complaints).

So with the profit of the Hemi engine being sold I can put a little more into the YJ and not cut corners and also aquired a 5.2 Magnum V8, harness, PCM, all emissions and a rebuilt 46RH manual valvebody 4 spd. tranny with the deal. Now this engine doesn't have the same power or torque which is a good thing so far. I will be upgrading the rear axle from the Dana 35 to a Dana 44 from a Comanche (MJ) and cromo axles 4:10, gears and ARB locker. The front is going to remain a Dana 30 but upgraded with cromo axles and maybe an air locker.
I figure that the way I now drive and the trails I do I won't be breaking to many axles with only 220 hp and using my brain.

The project should be starting very soon now due to my crappy AX5 tranny leaving parts of the gears in the bottom of the gear box and now 1st through 3rd gear sounding like a cement mixture.

So here is the new plan revised:
-5.2 Magnum V8 (got it)
-46RH auto tranny (got it)
-NV241OR transfer case (got it)
-Dana 44 for rear (still need)
-Advance Adapters engine mount kit (still need)
-Custom rear crossmember (to be built)
-Custom rad

Suspension mods are still going to be the same.

[Root Moose]

Cool beans.

5.2 is a good engine and is bags of power for a SWB Jeep. Plus there is the aftermarket if you must have more power.

I'm itching to get at my YJ. I've got about a month or so of weekends left to do in my XJ if I could just get the time to do it on a consistent basis.

[Backwoods Rambler]

[.......something like what is used on the Toyota Land Cruiser Series 80 like the one pictured below.
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l171/yuchym/control_arm_300.jpg


Where can I find more information about this arm??

[locrwln]

Where can I find more information about this arm??

sleeoffroad.com

Jack

[BC Explorer]

Just what I was going to say.

[4Rescue]

FWIW, some feed-back on the damper brands that I have been exposed to:

When I was chasing the '03 MORE Class Champion Class 12 car one of the owners commented that she really preferred the Fox's on it over the SAW's on her pre-run truck.
I can belive that... Honestly there is NO other company that knows dampeners like FOx. They are in every realm of motor sports and literaly ANYthing that needs suspension. I've had their rear shocks on my DH bikes for years and even the bone stock non adjustable models are just fine for 85% of riders. Fox is the best in my eyes.

Bilistien is certainly a GREAT company as well, and my uncle has used their shocks exclusively on all of his track/race cars ranging from VW's to Toyota FX-16's. Never had a problem.

I still perfer FOX as a company overall though.

Cheers

Dave