Diesel News: POST HERE [Archive]

BajaTaco

08-15-2006, 02:13 AM

FWIW, a gentleman from HONDA has also recently made some remarks regarding diesel and the assertion that Honda will be putting a heavy focus on development of a diesel for North America, with particular mention of a 6-cylinder.

Traverse City, Michigan 08/09/2006 -- Remarks by John Mendel, Senior Vice President, American Honda Motor Co., Inc.:

"...another key strategy that has earned quite a bit of attention is our plan to introduce what could be the world's first clean diesel engine. Honda's direct injection diesel engine technology now offered in Europe has received critical acclaim for its performance, smooth operation and efficiency... and is selling well in four different vehicles.

Based on this foundation, within three years, we will introduce a new 4-cylinder diesel engine that meets the world's toughest emissions standards. With hybrid technology focused more on small cars, we believe that diesel technology is the best fuel efficient technology for larger vehicles. So, R&D is also working on the development of V6 diesel engine technology. We do not have a timetable for introducing such an engine. But it is a key development goal.

I am very confident that our diesel technology will achieve our goal of creating new value in this market. Some have suggested this will be as important a breakthrough as the Civic CVCC was in being first to meet the U.S. Clean Air Act in the early 1970s. I don't know about that. But I can say that, like the CVCC engine, we will meet our goal without add-on technology like urea. What I have found very interesting is the positive reaction we have received from this announcement of our diesel plans. With the development of this new technology, many customers and analysts are enthusiastic about what they see as the return of Honda's challenging spirit. Hey... we never stopped challenging... it's just that some of our efforts are so far out there it is more difficult to appreciate..."

Full article HERE (http://www.autospectator.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5393) (be sure to have a pop-up blocker :smilies27 )

datrupr

08-15-2006, 04:07 AM

(" UM!......Mr. Z. .....is that Mustache Real>?........!")
.

Everyone is a comedian.....:xxrotflma

But, it should be "Dr." Z.:p

Scenic WonderRunner

08-15-2006, 04:11 AM

Everyone is a comedian.....:xxrotflma

But, it should be "Dr." Z.:p

OH Gosh!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's what I ment!

............I knew that!..............hehe:sombrero:

Must have been the chips~n~beer!!!!!!!!!!!!

..........hehe!!!!!!!!!!!!!..............:friday:

Thankyou!...........

It has been "corrected".........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pskhaat

08-15-2006, 04:23 AM

One of my former students (graduated '72) is with Toyota R&D and gave me some GREAT news a few weeks ago

Would that news happen to be on the light duty side or the heavy duty side of things? Would you say it would be worth 4 beers in a row, 6 side-by-side? And what is the displacement on those beers? How many horses would I need to transport said news?

Scott Brady

08-15-2006, 04:25 AM

based on Chris and my conversations with Toyota folk, 2009 model year should see diesels in the US.

mountainpete

08-15-2006, 04:37 AM

A diesel version of the FJ Cruiser would make switch :jump:

ChuckB

08-15-2006, 11:15 PM

based on Chris and my conversations with Toyota folk, 2009 model year should see diesels in the US.

:drool: :drool:

That is great news. I am aiming to be in the market for a new vehicle around that time frame. A new Toyota diesel would be nice or atleast more motors for diesel swaps into a 60 ;)

Jonathan Hanson

08-16-2006, 02:19 AM

Scenic WonderRunner

08-16-2006, 02:44 AM

Scott Brady

08-16-2006, 02:49 AM

2009 Model year, 2008 release to coincide with wide availability of low sulfur fuel.

ChuckB

08-16-2006, 06:58 PM

Two thousand NINE?

Talk about missing the bus. C'mon, they can get one here sooner than that, can't they? At least in the Tundra. And what would it take to modify Toyota's existing, superb three-liter four-cylinder to run on our crappy high-sulphur diesel for the Tacoma?

On my way back to the U.S. we had a 4 day lay-over in Kuwait. I saw the (what I assume to be "new") Hilux. The body style was scarily similar to the 05+ Taco and I believe it had a 2.7L diesel. Can anyone confirm this? I have not searched the net or anything for it. I wish I would have had my camera handy...:(

Jonathan Hanson

08-17-2006, 06:54 PM

The current issue of Car and Driver has a test of the BMW 330D diesel available in Europe (0 to 60 in six seconds, 38 mpg!). In a sidebar they summarize why so few diesels are available here. Essentially new car emissions regulations make no distinction between gas and diesel engines. Current diesels could pass particulate emissions with a particulate filter such as is used in Europe, but our high-sulphur diesel fuel quickly clogs the filter. Thus the wait until better fuel is available here.

I refuse to second-guess emissions requirements, which have done incalculable good for the air in our country. But it seems some sort of balancing act between air quality and use of fossil fuels would be a good thing.

OutbacKamper

08-24-2006, 03:59 AM

This may be old news, but new to me:
Jeep is dropping the CRD (diesel) option for the Liberty at the end of this model year. The good news is that they will offer a diesel option on the Grand Cherokee, production starts in January.
Scource: World of Wheels, Sept 2006

Scott Brady

08-25-2006, 04:14 AM

http://people.bath.ac.uk/ccsshb/12cyl/rta96c_cyldeck.jpg

Some facts on the 14 cylinder version:
Total engine weight: 2300 tons (The crankshaft alone weighs 300 tons.)
Length: 89 feet
Height: 44 feet
Maximum power: 108,920 hp at 102 rpm
Maximum torque: 5,608,312 lb/ft at 102rpm

Robthebrit

08-25-2006, 05:17 AM

Scott,

Yikes...I thought that diesel in my truck was big... Here is a link to some info on the same engine..

http://people.bath.ac.uk/ccsshb/12cyl/

Rob

pskhaat

08-25-2006, 05:47 AM

Wonder what the lubricant capacity is? Amazing stuff.

calamaridog

08-25-2006, 02:04 PM

2009 Model year, 2008 release to coincide with wide availability of low sulfur fuel.

I agree.

calamaridog

08-25-2006, 02:10 PM

At my local Toyota Dealer.........
I've had the General Sales Manager.........and a salesman..........both tell me that the Tundra will come with a Diesel Engine in Late 2007.
Could this be true?
I does seem kinda fast to me.
I'm confused why they would tell me this if it's really not going to happen until 2009.

Mark,

It has been, and continues to be, my experience that I know more about the vehicles I'm shopping for than the person trying to sell it to me. Take that for whatever it is worth. I will be shocked if they introduce a diesel to the Tundra lineup before the 2009 model year.

Scott Brady

08-25-2006, 02:16 PM

Scott,

Yikes...I thought that diesel in my truck was big... Here is a link to some info on the same engine..

http://people.bath.ac.uk/ccsshb/12cyl/

Rob

WELCOME TO ExPo!

What an awesome mog (crew cab too) :drool:

Any pictures of the Mog? Maybe a new thread in the HD section if you have time.

calamaridog

08-28-2006, 05:33 PM

Soon we will be seeing more diesel options I think:birthday.sml:

CLEANER DIESEL FUEL QUIETLY ARRIVES
By CHRIS BOWMAN
The Sacramento Bee

SACRAMENTO - California will reach another big milestone on the road to healthier air this week as suppliers of diesel complete a mandated switch to an ''ultra low-sulfur'' blend.

Remarkably, the sweeping changeover in fuel arrives unheralded by the usual angst or trepidation over engine breakdowns, performance drops and price spikes at the pump.

''It's been very quiet, to the point that we had to publicize that it's taking place,'' said Jerry Martin, veteran spokesman for the state Air Resources Board, which adopted the diesel rule.

Smog regulators demonstrated the new fuel in Sacramento last week by holding a bleached-white handkerchief to the exhaust spout of an idling tanker truck. Sure enough, as news cameras zoomed in, the hanky stayed spotless.

Aesthetics aside, the new fuel promises to greatly reduce harmful emissions from trucks and buses, smog officials said.

The cleaner fuel also paves the way for auto manufacturers to introduce a wide variety of diesel-powered passenger vehicles that otherwise could not meet California's toughest-in-the-nation exhaust standards, according to diesel engine manufacturers.

''You can see them all lining up,'' said Michael Coates, spokesman for the Diesel Technology Forum, a nonprofit industry trade group.

Just last Friday General Motors announced plans to roll out a 360-horsepower turbodiesel in a full-size pickup sometime after 2009. BMW, Volkswagen, Daimler-Chrysler and Ford have similar plans in the works, Coates said.

In addition to delivering more punch than gasoline engines at low speeds, the diesel models would rival today's gasoline hybrids on fuel economy, Coates said.

GM promises that its debut engine will use 25 percent less fuel than a comparable gasoline V8.

California's deadline for the switchover to low-sulfur diesel is Friday. A similar federal rule gives diesel suppliers elsewhere in the nation until Oct. 1.

The regulations limits the sulfur content in diesel to 15 parts per million -- a 97 percent reduction from the current 500 ppm standard.

Sulfur, a naturally occurring component of diesel, is not the chemical of health concern. Rather, the sulfur interferes with pollution control equipment on diesel-powered vehicles.

At current levels, the chemical clogs soot filters and disarms catalytic converters, which destroy smog-forming gases in the exhaust.

Diesel engines produce cancer-causing soot and vastly surpass gasoline-fueled models in emissions of nitrogen oxides, compounds that smudge the skies yellowish brown and form ozone -- the ingredient in smog that irritates the eyes and airways, according to the state air board.

''Realistically, we are not going to eliminate diesel engines any time soon, so we have to clean them up as much as we can," the air board's Martin said.

Nationwide, the cleaner fuel is expected to reduce soot and nitrogen oxide emissions by more than 90 percent in the next three years as truck and bus engine manufacturers phase in models with stronger emissions standards.

When fully implemented, in 2010, the new engine standards will prevent an estimate 8,300 soot-related deaths and tens of thousands of smog-related diseases such as bronchitis and asthma, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

In California, the vast majority of service stations already are selling the cleaner diesel, according to the state air board.

''The public really has not noticed any changeover, though it has mostly occurred,'' Martin said.

That was not hardly the case in previous changeovers to cleaner fuel in California.

Motorists complained of engine knocking for years as the octane-enhancing lead was phased out of gasoline in the late 1970s.

The first reformulation of diesel in 1993, which cut sulfur to 500 ppm from 3,000 ppm, created a storm of protests as the changeover boosted the price at truckers' pumps and caused engine breakdowns and fuel leakage in thousands of big rigs, Martin recalled.

The furor also forced the resignation of the much-respected air board chairwoman, Jananne Sharpless, an appointee of then-Gov. Pete Wilson, Martin said.

Then, in the late 1990s, Wilson's successor, Gray Davis, faced political pressure to phase out the gasoline ingredient MTBE, a compound introduced into California's fuel to replace harmful lead as an octane booster.

As refineries increased the amount of MTBE to replace other harmful components, the additive posed a special environmental threat in gasoline leaks and spills. Highly soluble, MTBE moved far faster underground than any other gasoline ingredients and could pass through purification plants. And at low levels it imparted a solvent-like taste to drinking water.

The state no longer allows MTBE in fuel.

haven

08-28-2006, 07:04 PM

The feds require manufacturers to meet the new emissions standards in January 2007, so the USA manufacturers are waiting until that time to offer the cleaner burning engines. They will be marketed as 2008 models.

GM (Isuzu) will offer a new 6.6L Duramax V8
Ford (International) will offer a 6.4L Powerstroke V8
Dodge (Cummins) will offer a 6.7L I6

The manufacturers had to increase displacement a bit to help compensate for the marginally lower energy in the low-sulphur diesel fuel. The power ratings for all these engines is 325+ HP and 650+ lb ft torque.

Exactly how much more we'll have to pay for the cleaner diesels is not known. I've seen estimates ranging from $500 to $5000 more than current models. There will be higher maintenance costs, too, depending on the schedule for replacement of the particulate trap. The catalytic converter should be good for 100,000 miles or more.

High fuel prices = decreased sales of SUVs and light pickups. Every USA manufacturer is scrambling to increase fuel economy. This may mean more V6 diesels.

International already builds a 4.0L V6 version of the Powerstroke. It's used in the Ford and International LCF (low cab forward) delivery vans. Instead of using that V6, however, Ford is thinking about importing a variant of a V6 used in the Range Rover. According to Autoweek, this engine will be 4.4L, and may be installed in the F150 and the Explorer.

GM is also exploring the possibility of making a V6 version of the Duramax.

Mercedes will use their 3.2L V6 Blutec engine (200 hp, 370 lb ft) in the E series sedans, manufactured in Germany. This engine will also appear in the GL SUVs (and also ML?) built in Alabama.

I can't tell for sure if the diesel engine in the new Sprinter van and Grand Cherokee will be a different engine, evolved from other Mercedes truck diesels, or just a variant of the Blutec.

Unfortunately, few companies are talking about developing small four cylinder diesels for the North American market. The only exception is VW, which will introduce a new 2.0L 4 cylinder diesel with 140hp and 200 lb ft in 2008.

Chip Haven

haven

08-28-2006, 09:53 PM

after I posted my message I read that GM is showing journalists a Tahoe with a smaller displacement V8 diesel -- "somewhere between 3.0L and 6.0L." So it looks like they won't offer a V6 diesel in a passenger vehicle or light truck.

A diesel V8 is more complicated and expensive than a V6, but I guess people want the V8.

So much of light duty diesel sales is marketing baloney that strokes the male ego (or other parts of the male anatomy). I see dozens of Powerstroke and Cummins powered pickups driving around every day with one occupant and nothing in the bed. The medium trucks doing real work are the cab-forward 4 and 6 cylinder Isuzu and Mitsubishi diesels.

Chip Haven

goodtimes

08-29-2006, 03:08 AM

A diesel V8 is more complicated and expensive than a V6, but I guess people want the V8.

There is a poor perception of 6 cylinders in trucks. People think they need a v-8. Never mind that argueably the best diesel engine ever used in a light truck is an inline 6. From the factory they (the B series Cummins) are upwards of 350hp & 650ft/lbs of torque, with 20 +/- mpg in a 7000+ pound truck. Who needs a v8 when you can get the same performance from a I-6, plus have plenty of room under the hood for "fun stuff" (like twin turbo's)?

And to stay on topic....some interesting stuff here:

http://www.dieselforecast.com/

haven

08-30-2006, 05:02 PM

Jokes about urea injection aside...

Autoweek is reporting that the EPA is working with auto manufacturers to approve a version of urea injection to control oxides of nitrogen in diesel exhaust. The reason is that a urea injection system costs about $500 less than a system based solely on catalytic converters. The Autoweek article estimates the cost of a catalyst-only system to be $1,400.

Here's the link to the Autoweek article
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060829/FREE/60828027/1041

I found another article that describes the components in a diesel emissions system. They are:
-- diesel oxydation catalyst
-- NOx adsorber catalyst
-- particulate filter
-- selective reduction catalyst

The urea injection system works like this
--diesel oxydation catalyst
--particulate filter
--urea injection
--selective reduction catalyst

By reducing the number of catalytic converters, the urea injection system saves the manufacturer money, but adds inconveniece to the vehicle owner. The urea system has to be refilled periodically.

Now let's hear the jokes about how to refill the urea system...

Chip Haven

haven

08-30-2006, 05:24 PM

It looks like the new diesel exhaust emissions control systems rely on two or even three catalytic converters, plus a particulate trap. The cats will be ruined if the vehicle is run on standard diesel fuel with high sulphur content.

Canada and USA are using the same schedule to introduce ultra-low-sulphur diesel. But how can we drive a new diesel to Mexico and points south?

Mexican authorities say that, in 2007, they plan to make ultra-low-sulphur diesel fuel available at stations that are within a few hundred miles of the US-Mexico border. Turistas and trucks hauling NAFTA goods should be able to get low sulphur fuel. Be sure to look for the sticker indicating the diesel fuel is ultra-low sulphur.

This assumes that the fuel truck drivers put the right fuel in the right tank at the service station. And that the underground tank has been properly cleaned of old diesel fuel before it's used for the new fuel.

But when you travel farther south, the diesel fuel is likely to be the high-sulphur variety for years to come. I doubt that low-sulphur diesel will be available in Central and South America for a decade or more if ever.

So what's a new diesel owner to do? I guess you have to remove the exhaust cats before traveling to Mexico. Or plan to replace your ruined emissions control system when you return.

Chip Haven

BajaTaco

08-31-2006, 03:36 PM

Good post Chip. Very good points to bring up.

asteffes

08-31-2006, 05:02 PM

Is there any sort of sulphur-be-gone addititive one could add to high-sulphur diesel to make it, well, less sulphury?

asteffes

08-31-2006, 05:06 PM

So much of light duty diesel sales is marketing baloney that strokes the male ego (or other parts of the male anatomy). I see dozens of Powerstroke and Cummins powered pickups driving around every day with one occupant and nothing in the bed. The medium trucks doing real work are the cab-forward 4 and 6 cylinder Isuzu and Mitsubishi diesels.

Chip Haven

Well, do remember that Ford and GM made it very attractive for buyers to choose their big trucks with interest-free financing and large cash incentives. During that time I noticed a marked increase in SuperDuties and Duramaxes everywhere I went, especially, it seems, in Colorado. $35k for a powerful truck that can haul the family, too, and gets decent mileage isn't too bad of a deal.

asteffes

08-31-2006, 05:09 PM

Two thousand NINE?

Talk about missing the bus. C'mon, they can get one here sooner than that, can't they? At least in the Tundra. And what would it take to modify Toyota's existing, superb three-liter four-cylinder to run on our crappy high-sulphur diesel for the Tacoma?

I think it has a lot to do with branding and wanting to be very careful about how they present a Toyota diesel option. The public associates Toyota with reliable, clean, nearly-flawless vehicles, while diesels still have a bit of their dirty image to shed in America. I think Toyota wants to be sure their diesels are successful (name the last Toyota vehicle that *wasn't* successful?) by waiting until the American public is truly ready for an everyday diesel.

Scott Brady

11-29-2006, 06:36 PM

From the Jan/Feb Truck Trend

Hino made Turbo Diesel in the new Tundra in the next two years from a possible new plant in the US.

calamaridog

06-17-2007, 12:11 PM

Big Diesel News from GM

Time to stop H2 bashing!

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/15/gm-announces-clean-diesel-v8-for-pickups-and-the-hummer-h2/

text:

GM announces new 4.5L V8 Duramax diesel for half-ton trucks and HUMMER H2
Posted Jun 15th 2007 3:49PM by John Neff

Mark your calendars, because we're calling today a watershed moment for the advancement of diesel's acceptance in the U.S. General Motors has just announced a new 4.5L V8 Duramax turbo-diesel powerplant it plans to use in the Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra half-ton pickups, as well as the HUMMER H2. The new oil burner is expected to produce at least 310 horsepower and 520 ft-lbs. of torque. It features dual-overhead cams, four valves per cylinder, a variable-vane turbocharger and aluminum cylinder heads with integrated manifolding that helps keep the overall package small enough to fit in the same space as the automaker's small-block gas V8s.

That's right, just imagine the possibilities. Wherever GM uses a small-block V8 gas engine, it could potentially use the 4.5L V8 Duramax diesel. In a few years we could be driving diesel Impalas, diesel Camaros, maybe even a diesel Corvette! To quote GM's press release, the engine's small size gives it "the flexibility to introduce this engine in a wide variety of vehicle applications should there be future market demand." Indeed.

GM estimates that the engine will improve fuel efficiency by 25%, reduce CO2 emissions by 13% and decrease particulate and NOx emissions by at least 90% in its GMT900 pickups and the HUMMER H2. Whoever said the HUMMER H2 was on its way out will likely be proven incorrect after this engine debuts. Scheduled to be built at the GM Tonawanda engine plant outside Buffalo, NY, the 4.5L V8 Duramax diesel will be 50-state emissions compliant and meet 2010 diesel emissions standards, as well. GM claims its new diesel will also have NVH (Noise, Vibration and Harshness) levels approaching those of today's current gas V8s, though we'll have to wait and see if that wish comes true. That wait should end in a couple of years, as the automaker states the engine will be available in Silverado, Sierra and H2 models built after 2009.

UPDATE: Pickuptruck.com's Mike Levine has learned from GM that despite sharing its name with the older 6.6L Duramax diesel that was developed in partnership with Isuzu, the new 4.5L Duramax was developed completely in-house by GM.

Check out GM's full press release after the jump for more details.

[Source: GM]

PRESS RELEASE:

GM Plans First Light Duty V-8 Clean Diesel For North America

High-efficiency V-8 scheduled for pickup trucks under 8,600 pounds Gross Vehicle Weight and HUMMER H2
Low emissions, high performance and excellent fuel economy
Expected to deliver class-leading torque, power and refinement
Manufactured at the GM Powertrain Tonawanda engine plant
TONAWANDA, N.Y. – General Motors Corp. will introduce a new, state-of-the-art 4.5L V-8 Duramax turbo-diesel that improves engine fuel efficiency by 25 percent, reduces CO2 emissions by 13 percent and cuts particulates and NOx emissions by at least 90 percent for North American light duty trucks and the HUMMER H2 built after 2009.

The premium V-8 diesel is expected to deliver class-leading torque, power and refinement while maintaining a significant fuel efficiency advantage over comparable-output gasoline engines.

The new dual-overhead cam, four-valve V-8 diesel engine will fit within the same space of a small-block V-8 gasoline engine. This compact size is made possible by using integral cylinder head exhaust manifolds, integral cam cover intake manifolds and a narrow block.

"This new GM light duty diesel is expected to become a favorite among customers who require excellent towing ability and fuel efficiency," said Tom Stephens, group vice president, GM Global Powertrain and Quality. "It will meet the stringent 2010 emissions standards, and it will be compliant in all 50 states, making it one of the cleanest diesel vehicles ever produced."

Environmental benefits of the new engine include a 13-percent reduction in CO2 versus gasoline engines, and at least a 90-percent reduction in particulates and NOx compared to diesel vehicles today. This will be GM's first engine to use a selective catalytic reduction NOx aftertreatment system with a diesel particulate filter to help achieve the Tier 2 Bin 5 and LEV 2 emissions standards.

Technical highlights of the engine include aluminum cylinder heads with integrated manifolding; a variable-vane turbocharger with intercooling; a Compacted Graphite Iron (CGI) block for a stronger and lighter engine base (compared to lower-strength aluminum or heavier grey cast iron); and fracture-split main bearing caps and connecting rods for a precise fit. An electronically controlled, ultra-high-pressure, common-rail fuel system is used, which has the ability to inject fuel five times per combustion event to control noise and emissions.

"This new V-8 is not only a clean diesel meeting the toughest emissions requirements in North America, it also delivers an effortless performance feel because of its high torque across the speed range," said Charlie Freese, executive director of GM Powertrain Diesel Engineering. "It is also significantly quieter than other diesels on the road today, with noise and vibration performance approaching gasoline V-8 levels."

Freese said the new V-8's compact size enables it to fit in the envelope of a gasoline small-block engine, which provides GM the flexibility to introduce this engine in a wide variety of vehicle applications should there be future market demand.

The premium V-8 diesel engine is expected to deliver class-leading refinement, horsepower and torque and fulfill multiple vehicle applications with ratings in excess of 310 horsepower and 520 lb-ft of torque.

GM (Opel, Saab, Vauxhall and GMDAT ) currently offers 17 diesel engine variants in 45 vehicle lines around the world. GM sells more than one million diesel engines annually, with products that offer a range of choices from the 1.3L four-cylinder diesel engine sold in the Opel Agila and Corsa, up to the 6.6L V-8 Duramax diesel sold in full-size vans, heavy duty pickups and medium duty trucks in the U.S.

GM first introduced the Duramax diesel 6.6L V-8 in the U.S. in the 2001 model year and since then, customer enthusiasm for this heavy duty diesel has been outstanding. In fact, GM's heavy duty pickup truck market share has jumped nearly tenfold in the six years that Duramax engines have been offered.

General Motors Corp. (NYSE: GM), the world's largest automaker, has been the annual global industry sales leader for 76 years. Founded in 1908, GM today employs about 280,000 people around the world. With global headquarters in Detroit, GM manufactures its cars and trucks in 33 countries. In 2006, nearly 9.1 million GM cars and trucks were sold globally under the following brands: Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, GM Daewoo, Holden, HUMMER, Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn and Vauxhall. GM's OnStar subsidiary is the industry leader in vehicle safety, security and information services. More information on GM can be found at www.gm.com.

haven

06-17-2007, 05:13 PM

Since the new diesel matches the form factor of the small block gas V8, I think it will fit in the H3. The H3 is about the same size as a 4Runner. It works better off-road than the H2.

Chip Haven

imagodave

06-17-2007, 07:02 PM

http://www.dieseltoyz.com/

I've considered using something like this for my FJ. Baja trip averaged 9 MPG. Also we use Bio and Vege fuels in some of our solar trucks and vehicles. Would love to have a TDI Toyota.

Nullifier

06-17-2007, 09:27 PM

well i can tell you after having several low quality gm diesel engines before I will not be geting any diesel that gm develops til they have been out and proven.

I would find it hard to believe that isuzu would allow gm to call that new mill a duramax. I doubt they want it affiliated with the quality that they produce. Whats really seem crazy is that it is yet another V-8 platform. My quess is they plan on doing away witht he isuzu motor all together and that the new one will find it's way into all the full size trucks. I fthe plan was truely to diversify the diesel line up they would have gone for a 6 cyl that could be developed into a 4cyl.

Glad to here that more diesel options are coming but it doesn't really look like they have a good viable plan. Duplicating what you already have is sensless buisness. Especially when it has the M.O. of the company for decades and they are in major trouble. Guess they still have not learned how to plan properly. It's easy to cast stones being an outsider but I still can't believe they do not think more sensibly.

calamaridog

06-18-2007, 03:07 AM

Since the new diesel matches the form factor of the small block gas V8, I think it will fit in the H3. The H3 is about the same size as a 4Runner. It works better off-road than the H2.

Chip Haven

I would buy that:)

haven

06-18-2007, 10:53 AM

I think GM's decision to build a smaller displacement V8 diesel was driven by marketing concerns more than performance advantages. They didn't want people thinking, why should I buy a V6 from GM when Ford has a V8 for the same price? So we're stuck with the extra weight and complexity of a V8 design when a V6 would do.

It's possible that GM plans to introduce a V6 version at a later date by simply lopping off two cylinders from the V8 design.

It's likely an inline 4 cylinder design of 5 liters, like Isuzu and Mitsubishi use in their smaller trucks, has too much harshness for passenger car use. Toyota's 3 liter four cylinder D-4D diesel engine, as sold in Asian markets, is very refined in passenger car use.

Chip Haven

slomatt

06-20-2007, 07:28 AM

Here are some recent (this week) responses to emails I sent to Jeep, Nissan, and Toyota asking about diesels. Nothing that gives me much hope for diesel SUVs in the US market any time soon.

Toyota
-----------------------------------------------------------------
We apologize; we do not currently have any announced plans to introduce a
diesel-powered vehicle in the United States. We are, however, aware of consumer
interest in this type of vehicle .
Toyota is committed to hybrid technology. Though diesel powered engines do deliver
comparable MPG ratings to hybrid vehicles, they do no bolster the environmental
benefit that gasoline-electric hybrids do.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Nissan
-----------------------------------------------------------------
According to our resources, Nissan has no plans of introducing a diesel SUV for the 2008 model year vehicles. We do not have information on future model year vehicles. Nissan has no plans of selling the Nissan Patrol in the United States for the 2008 model year line up.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Jeep
-----------------------------------------------------------------
We are pleased to read about your interest in the 2007 Jeep Wrangler
Unlimited. At this time, DaimlerChrysler has not released any official
information regarding the production of this vehicle with a diesel
engine option available for sale in the United States in the near
future. However, with constantly shifting market trends I would hesitate
to discount the possibility of new products on the horizon, specifically
designed to suit your needs. Please feel free to check back with us and
your local dealership periodically for future updates.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Of the three it sounds like Jeep has the most potential. If they came out with a diesel wrangler rubicon unlimited I would be extremily interested.

- Matt

Daniel

07-11-2007, 12:18 AM

I doubt that low-sulphur diesel will be available in Central and South America for a decade or more if ever.

Just about all south american petroleum is heavy crude, which has high sulphur content. I'll leave to the petroleum geologists to expand on this. It's possible to refine it to a low sulphur content, but it's much more costly to do so. We already pay USD3.50/gallon here.

Brazil's best diesels here have 500 ppm, but in rural areas (red diesel) it's around 2000 ppm. In really remote areas they may even have 3500 ppm, which was the norm in the recent past.

By comparison, (city) diesel in Chile has 50ppm and in California and the EU has 10 ppm of sulphur. Mexico has 300ppm.

To add insult to injury (or is it really the other way around?), cetane numbers (combustion quality) seem to be inversely proportional to sulphur content. It's officially 42 here as compared to 50 to 54 in the US.

Scott Brady

07-11-2007, 12:22 AM

Nissan
-----------------------------------------------------------------
According to our resources, Nissan has no plans of introducing a diesel SUV for the 2008 model year vehicles. We do not have information on future model year vehicles. Nissan has no plans of selling the Nissan Patrol in the United States for the 2008 model year line up.

Diesel Nissans are coming and I have that news on very good authority ;)

Currently testing in the Titan and Frontier (V6 CRD)

articulate

07-11-2007, 12:28 AM

Correct. News in some auto pubs are saying that a Titan diesel option should be ready for the 2009 model year.

slomatt

07-11-2007, 05:36 AM

Diesel Nissans are coming and I have that news on very good authority ;)

Currently testing in the Titan and Frontier (V6 CRD)

I think they were taking my "diesel SUV" query very literally and not including trucks. :)

- Matt

Nullifier

07-11-2007, 02:05 PM

Hell if jeep came out with an unlimited diesel I would buy one tomorrow no hesitation. Of couse if the frontier comes in with a diesel I would probably get that over the jeep.

dieselcruiserhead

07-12-2007, 06:21 AM

Not sure if you guys saw this (slightly unrelated) but this bad boy may yield as high as 60 mpg highway according to the site...
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/05/08/diesel-vw-jetta-sportwagen-a-real-fuel-sipper

I personally love these cars and would love to buy one when they come out..

Ryanmb21

07-12-2007, 02:59 PM

calamaridog

07-15-2007, 10:00 AM

V8 Cummins turbodiesel will have about 260-300 hp and 460 lb-ft of torque, with gas mileage is likely to be about 20 mpg city, 25 highway.

dieselcruiserhead

07-15-2007, 04:55 PM

out of curiosity where did you get this info?

haven

07-15-2007, 07:54 PM

Here's one source that provides details about the V6 and V8 diesel engines under development by Cummins.
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/dodge/0612dp_new_cummins_v6_and_v8/

See page 2 for MPG test results. The V-6 is rated at 270 hp and 420 lb-ft of torque, which should be plenty for most vehicles. For example, the Mitsubishi Fuso FG four cylinder diesel produces about 400 lb-ft of torque, and it's adequate to move a vehicle with 8,000 lb payload. A Jeep Unlimited or a Dodge Durango will never see a payload like that. The key is having a transmission with lots of gears so you can get the load moving, and keep it moving inside the diesel's narrower power band.

Unfortunately, most diesel buyers want a truck that can beat the buses and semi's to the entrance to the Eisenhower tunnel. So Dodge will continue to offer the 6.7L diesel.

fisher205

07-16-2007, 03:19 AM

My modified 2nd Generation Cummins is pulling about 270 hp and about 650 ft lbs. of torque This is more than adequate to get it and the camper down the road.

I don't think the Fuso is a very good comparison with a light pickup. 270 hp is more than the Fuso. The fuso can haul heavy loads but only has a top speed of 72 mph. This would be a litttle slow for highway driving. -Brad

dieselcruiserhead

07-17-2007, 05:40 AM

Two semi related articles. About difficulties in the Indian auto manufacturing industry:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/17/business/worldbusiness/17india.html?ref=business

And GM has bought a stake in an Italian diesel engine producer and will be putting it into a Cadillac initially:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/17/business/17diesel.html

Dave

07-18-2007, 01:27 PM

Saw this on another message board...

saw today 3 toyota tundras in a convoy on the way home today each with manufactures plates. the first and the last one were obviously badged as gas trucks.. but the middle one was heavily camoflaged. with a body bra and no exposed badging. however, i managed to goose the aveo next to it, and it had that destinctive diesel sound, and had much larger exaust than either of the two gassers that were escorting the trucks (the back one was badged as the 5.7, i didnt catch the badging on the front one, i assume it was the smaller v8).

i couldnt tell with all the camoflague on the truck if it was a 3/4 ton or better, it could have been a diesel halffer.. id ont know.. it rode about the same height as teh 5.7 litre truck, and with the wheels spinning, i couldnt get a count of lug nuts either to tell if it had larger axles.

so basically, I have no real information at all, other than I saw a heavily camoflagued toyota truck with manufactures plates that SOUNDED like it had a diesel. it was not blowing black smoke, but, id assume that any new diesel introduced would be of the 'clean' variety anyway, so thats no longer a for sure tell.

anyway, it looks like toyota is testing thier new (3/4 ton?) diesel tundra up in the mountains here.. which is kinda neat...

He also snapped pics of some diesel vans being tested by DC a few weeks ago...

two "new" mercedes vans.. each with a "new" USA spec clean CDI motor.

the vito 111CDI was towing a trailer i was told was measured at EXACTLY 5000#.

according to the manufactures engineer, the motor was a 2148cc CDI, with 150 hp and 330# of torque, rear wheel drive.. 0-60 was in the 12 second range, but max speed was 113 with a fuel economy of 44mpg at 55mph ave speed..

the maroon van was the same size, but called a "viano cdi 2.0".. this one was not towing, but specced out with less power , 109 hp, 214# torque, with a top speed of 99mph, 0-100kph in the 17 second range, but with 32mpg combined city/highway.. limited to 2000# towing

didnt get to drive/play with them, and was told both would be crushed once the testing was done (aparently theres some legal issue with test vehicles ever making it to the public, even tho these models have been available in europe since 2004)

http://www.chrispy4x4.com/pics/july07/mercvan3.JPG

http://www.chrispy4x4.com/pics/july07/mercvan1.JPG

http://www.chrispy4x4.com/pics/july07/mercvan2.JPG

http://www.chrispy4x4.com/pics/july07/mercvan5.JPG

http://www.chrispy4x4.com/pics/july07/mercvan6.JPG

http://www.chrispy4x4.com/pics/july07/mercvan7.JPG

cruiser guy

07-18-2007, 01:58 PM

On my way back to the U.S. we had a 4 day lay-over in Kuwait. I saw the (what I assume to be "new") Hilux. The body style was scarily similar to the 05+ Taco and I believe it had a 2.7L diesel. Can anyone confirm this? I have not searched the net or anything for it. I wish I would have had my camera handy...:(

I know it's an old post but no one has replied yet.

The Hilux in most other parts of the world has had a diesel option for years!! The current diesel is the D4D. I've driven a Toyota HiAce with the D4D and 17 adults in it. It seemed a little tall in the gearing for starting out up a hill but once you got it rolling it did quite well. I drove it between Guatemala City and Panahachel which includes a few good hills!

The D4D is quiet and I didn't see any noticeable black smoke from the tail pipe either.

I think it has a lot to do with branding and wanting to be very careful about how they present a Toyota diesel option. The public associates Toyota with reliable, clean, nearly-flawless vehicles, while diesels still have a bit of their dirty image to shed in America. I think Toyota wants to be sure their diesels are successful (name the last Toyota vehicle that *wasn't* successful?) by waiting until the American public is truly ready for an everyday diesel.

The bad taste that many in North America have with regards to diesel is due to GM and their piece of crap 350 "diesel" of the late '70's and early '80's. All that was is a 350 gasser with a "diesel" head. Cute stunts like that by the domestic auto manufacturers make me wary of their products.

Toyota has had diesels in other world markets for years!! My '82 Toyota Land Cruiser came stock with a 4 banger Toyota diesel. It's not fast but it is reliable. I added a turbo to it when it was pushing 200,000 miles and it's still just as reliable as ever and now has significantly more power to boot!

btw the 2.7 in the Hilux was probably a gasser 2.7VVi. The diesels all have the D4D badging (at least the ones I've seen) while the gassers say 2.7 VVi or VVT I can't remember which.

ChuckB

07-18-2007, 05:44 PM

I know it's an old post but no one has replied yet.

The Hilux in most other parts of the world has had a diesel option for years!! The current diesel is the D4D. I've driven a Toyota HiAce with the D4D and 17 adults in it. It seemed a little tall in the gearing for starting out up a hill but once you got it rolling it did quite well. I drove it between Guatemala City and Panahachel which includes a few good hills!

The D4D is quiet and I didn't see any noticeable black smoke from the tail pipe either.

The bad taste that many in North America have with regards to diesel is due to GM and their piece of crap 350 "diesel" of the late '70's and early '80's. All that was is a 350 gasser with a "diesel" head. Cute stunts like that by the domestic auto manufacturers make me wary of their products.

Toyota has had diesels in other world markets for years!! My '82 Toyota Land Cruiser came stock with a 4 banger Toyota diesel. It's not fast but it is reliable. I added a turbo to it when it was pushing 200,000 miles and it's still just as reliable as ever and now has significantly more power to boot!

btw the 2.7 in the Hilux was probably a gasser 2.7VVi. The diesels all have the D4D badging (at least the ones I've seen) while the gassers say 2.7 VVi or VVT I can't remember which.

THANKS!!!

calamaridog

07-19-2007, 08:05 AM

out of curiosity where did you get this info?

Sorry Andre, I usually remember to post a link:

http://www.allpar.com/model/ram/2009-ram.html

haven

07-20-2007, 10:51 PM

Here is a list of model years when we can expect diesel engines to be offered by a variety of manufacturers. Most are from Automobile Magazine. I made a few additions

2007 (currently available)
Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD
Mercedes E320 Bluetec
Mercedes GL320 CDI
Mercedes ML320 CDI
Mercedes R320 CDI
Volkswagen Touraeg V-10 TDI

2008
Audi Q7 3.0 TDI
BMW 330d
BMW X5 3.0d
Volkswagen Jetta 2.0 I4
Volkswagen Tiguan 2.0 I4

2009
Ford Expedition 4.4 V-8
Ford F-150 4.4 V-8
Honda Accord 2.4L I4 ?
Hyundai Veracruz 3.0L V6
Mahindra pickup, suv 2.6L I4
Volkswagen Touareg 3.0 V6 TDI

2010
Chevrolet Silverado 4.5 V-8
Dodge Ram 1500 4.2 V-6
GMC Sierra 4.5 V-8
Hummer H2 4.5 V-8
Mitsubishi Lancer 2.4 I4
Nissan Maxima
Nissan Titan
Nissan Versa
Saturn Aura
Toyota Tundra (maybe)

2011
Mitsubishi Outlander 2.4 I4

cruiser guy

07-21-2007, 06:47 PM

Here is a list of model years when we can expect diesel engines to be offered by a variety of manufacturers. Most are from Automobile Magazine.

It looks like Toyota will be missing the boat which is a shame since they have diesels already in other markets! I really like my Land Cruiser but I REFUSE to by a gasoline powered one.

haven

08-07-2007, 06:04 PM

Autoweek had a short item today announcing that Nissan will offer a diesel powered version of the X-Trail SUV in Japan in 2008. Nissan is taking advantage of its ties to Renault to make diesel engines that meet the strict new emissions rules.

Today, a 2.2L turbodiesel is offered to most other markets where the X-Trail is sold, but its emissions are poor. It's not clear if the 2008 offering will be a completely new engine, or the old 2.2 with more effective emissions control.

The X-Trail is about the size of the Subaru Forester, with part-time 4x4 and no low range. The X-Trail is very popular in Australia.

Honda previously announced plans to offer diesel powered passenger vehicles in 2009.

In the Japanese home market, diesels were considered too noisy, smelly and crude for passenger car use. The combination of soaring gas prices and new emissions technology pioneered by European manufacturers is giving new life to diesels in Japan.

The renewed interest by Japanese manufacturers in small clean diesels increases the chance that we'll see a small diesel in a light truck. Now that "compact" trucks in USA are a big as standard trucks used to be, there is room for a new, smaller utility models.

Chip Haven

pskhaat

08-07-2007, 06:17 PM

Honda Accord 2.4L I4

Now that's something in which I'd be interested :)

I'm so mad at Toyota USA over the last few years I could just spit. A $200B company can find a way to bring an existing product (diesel) into the US, and they can figure out how to put a manual tranny alongside it too. I'm sick of being told what I want from them.

ChuckB

08-07-2007, 08:20 PM

cruiser guy

08-08-2007, 01:25 PM

I'm so mad at Toyota USA over the last few years I could just spit. A $200B company can find a way to bring an existing product (diesel) into the US, and they can figure out how to put a manual tranny alongside it too. I'm sick of being told what I want from them.

With this attitude from Toyota USA my next 'Cruiser will be bought elsewhere (Central America for instance where I can get a turbo-diesel '100 series)!! I know what I want, I know Toyota makes it and offers it elsewhere so why not offer it here?

haven

09-13-2007, 06:47 PM

At the 2007 Frankfurt Auto Show last week, the folks from Nissan showed a Maxima sedan with 3.0L V6 diesel. The engine is supposed to meet all Euro and USA emissions requirements, and will be sold starting in the 2010 model year.

It's not hard to imagine this V6 finding its way into the Pathfinder. Maybe Nissan will offer a V8 version of the engine for Nissan's full-size pickup and SUV.

Mercedes showed an interesting new "DiesOtto" engine that runs on gasoline, but has characteristics of a diesel engine. The engine starts with ignition from spark plugs. Once running, the fuel and air mixture is ignited by cylinder compression alone, like a diesel. If high RPM is required on the autobahn, the spark plugs are employed again. Mercedes calls this "controlled auto-ignition," or CAI.

The result is an engine with the torque of a diesel at low and medium RPM, and the HP and responsiveness of a gas engine at high RPM. The direct-injection, turbocharged CAI engine is supposed to produce 160 ft-lbs of torque per liter, so a 2.0L engine would have about 300 ft-lbs.

The DiesOtto engine would be great in a small utility vehicle. Unfortunately, Mercedes is thinking about using the engine in the big S-Class sedan first.

98roamer

09-13-2007, 08:22 PM

My Toyota mechanic at the dealer mentioned that his boss asked all the guys last month, who wants to got to school in 2008 to learn diesels. I didn't really think much of it but then I read this.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/stories/MYSA091107.1E.toyota.2c4c171.html

It still seems like it will take awhile. There always seems to be a lot of talk.

Nullifier

09-13-2007, 09:11 PM

Well I was dropping my wifes jetta of today for service and the parts guy said hey chck this out we will have thesefor next year witht he diesel. They will be size wise just like a ford escape which is a little small but it would be a good small diesel off. It is a simpler mini toureg. target preicing he said was low to mid 20's.

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/new_cars/forthcoming/tiguan

haven

09-13-2007, 11:54 PM

About the time we see the Tiguan 2.0L diesel next Spring, VW dealers should have the same 2.0L BlueMotion diesel engine available in the Passat sedan and wagon. Passats are quite large, qualifying as full-size cars using the EPA measuring stick. I don't think EPA numbers are available yet, but VW is saying 40+ mpg will be possible.

A car we won't see in USA right away is the VW Polo. The Bluemotion-equipped Polo gets close to 60 mpg, better mileage than almost all hybrids. The Polo is about as big as a Golf was 10 years ago, so it's a practical car, not a fashion statement like the Smart.

Hilux_Max

09-14-2007, 07:24 AM

Sorry to rub it in but I couldnt help myslef and I really feel sorry for you Yanks missing out on the benefits that diesel engines give.

Here in Australia diesels are king and have been for a while, but the new generation of common rail diesels is absolutely awesome.

Let me give ya some details to cry about -

My current model Toyota Hilux has the 1KD-FE engine.

This is a 3 litre common rail turbo-diesel engine with double overhead cams.
Puts out in stock form 126kw @ 3,600rpm and 343nM @ 1,400rpm.

Fuel economy for the dual cab in 5 speed manual is 8.5 litres per 100km and for the 4 speed auto is 9.5 litres per 100km. in standard form.

The same engine in the Prado is slightly more tweaked and puts out
127kw @ 3,400rpm and 410 nM at 1600rpm. In the 6 speed manual version the fuel economy is 9.2 litres per 100km.

The new landcruiser 70 series ute has the brand new 4.5 litre double overhead cam 4 valve V8 turbo diesel engine.

This puts out 151kW at 3,400rpm and 430 nM at 1200rpm.
Fuel economy is 11.5 litres per 100km combined average. These power figures are very underpowered as the engine has HUGE potential for massive torque to rival the F-Trucks with a few tweaks.

Word around toyota Australia (yeah I work there), is the new 200 series Landcruiser wagon that you guys might get too will have a twin turbo version of this engine (and they are both intercooled) that will put out somewhere in the region of 620-650nM of torque....and thats standard!

Now let me show you quickly the potential these motors have -

Taipan Performance Exhaust owner here in Australia has developed a performance upgrade that can be seen with the following online report -

http://autospeed.com.au/cms/A_108231/article.html

Now, I have spoken to him about some mods for my hilux diesel and since then he has done more mods - he has a full custom designed 3" exhaust system fitted, boosted the turbo another 2 pounds, fitted a DP Chip which adjusts the fuel delivery timing to produce more power without increasing fuel pressure in the already highly pressurised fuel lines and also fitted a LPG.Diesel system to the vehicle which injects a metered amount of Liquid Petroleum Gas that acts as an extra intercooler, lowering intake tempritures even more.....

The final result is I worked out about 550nM of torque at the engine. not sure at how many revs but thats awesome performance in any language and add to the the low revs that its delivered at and you'd tow and crawl over almost anything.

Redline

09-14-2007, 04:29 PM

Hilux Max:

Interesting link, I enjoyed it.

We can do pretty much the same easy high-performance modifications to our diesels here in the N. America too, it's just that our diesels are so few, mostly full-sized trucks. I add hop-up tweaks to diesel trucks often, but we are in need of smaller truck and car diesels...

I really think the future will be bright for Diesels in the USA but we have to wait a couple more years. Some of us are a little impatient about waiting :-)

cruiser guy

09-14-2007, 06:25 PM

Word around toyota Australia (yeah I work there), is the new 200 series Landcruiser wagon that you guys might get too will have a twin turbo version of this engine (and they are both intercooled) that will put out somewhere in the region of 620-650nM of torque....and thats standard!

I'll be real surprised if Toyota in North America gets a diesel in the 'Cruiser line again within the next few years.

haven

12-14-2007, 12:45 PM

Autoblog reports that GM has had a change of heart, and is now closely considering importing a V6 diesel for USA passenger car use.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/12/11/we-may-yet-see-cadillacs-new-2-9l-v-6-diesel-in-the-us/

The engine is an all-new design produced by Italian firm VM Motori. It's a completely different engine than the 4 cylinder diesel VM Motori provides to Jeep. The V6 will find its way into several of GM's European products, including the 2008 Cadillac CTS. In July 2007, GM purchased a 50% interest in VM Motori.

The diesel produces 250 hp and 400 ft-lbs of torque from 2.9L, thanks to a variable geometry turbo. That power is comparable to the 3.0L diesel Mercedes offers in its USA passenger cars and SUVs. That's also more torque than produced by GM's current 5.3L or 6.0L gas V8s. Combined with a six or seven speed transmission, the 2.9L diesel could propel any passenger vehicle in GM's lineup, as well as the Express van or 1500 series pickup.

GM continues to develop a 4.5L diesel V8 for its 1500 series pickup and Tahoe SUV. That engine is expected to produce around 310 horsepower and 520 ft-lbs. of torque. The current 6.6L Duramax V8 diesel in GM's HD trucks is rated at 365 hp and 660 lb-ft of torque.

Chip Haven

spencyg

12-14-2007, 01:43 PM

I work in the automotive industry, and the "word on the street" is that Ford is bringing over the 4.4L Land Rover diesel in '09 for their light duty (F150, Expedition, etc) platforms. Supposedly there is some issue with International and some exclusivity promised made many decades ago, but it sounds like things are still going forward with LR.

Spence

Kermit

12-14-2007, 01:46 PM

The diesel produces 250 hp and 400 ft-lbs of torque from 2.9L, thanks to a variable geometry turbo.

Nice numbers, not too little, not too much power.

ntsqd

12-14-2007, 02:08 PM

........ Supposedly there is some issue with International and some exclusivity promised made many decades ago, but it sounds like things are still going forward with LR.

Spence
I first started hearing those rumbles 2 years ago. FEV reportedly had a contract to develop the replacement for the Navistar engine. I would have expected more to have come from it by now, but I've no knowledge of the speed with which Detroit moves.

spencyg

12-14-2007, 02:48 PM

I would have expected more to have come from it by now, but I've no knowledge of the speed with which Detroit moves.

Think a cross between a slug and a sloth, then throw it into a freezer. Thats about how fast the automotive industry moves when in high gear. My days in the industry and numbered.

Spence

dieselcruiserhead

12-14-2007, 05:56 PM

Nice numbers, not too little, not too much power.
Not that I am disagreeing with you but that is an absolute ton of power.. More power than early Dodge Cummins pickups, for what its worth...

Kermit

12-14-2007, 08:43 PM

Not that I am disagreeing with you but that is an absolute ton of power.. More power than early Dodge Cummins pickups, for what its worth...

A little much on the torque, horse power is about right for a 1/2 ton.

That in a Tacoma would be sweet!...might twist the frame apart though...:D...and drive shafts, and axles, fry clutches...and...

The new Tacoma's are what?...240 hp?...260's for torque?...make that an even 300 on both ends, would be a nice little stump puller, yes?

Redline

12-15-2007, 01:27 AM

I'm not disagreeing that this is lots of power and torque, I would just say I don't think it's too much.

The early Dodge/Cummins were in fact 400 lb-ft. and 160-HP. A little light on HP, but there was lots more HP and torque available for those that wanted to turn up them up.

I love my little V8 in the Runner, but if it had an extra 100 lb-ft. with everything else the same I would like it even more. HP could stay the same, or 300 as suggested above. I would just say, that having a bit more than 300 lb-ft or torque (what I have now with a V8, though not at 1500 RPM) would be nice. The ring & pinions could stay pretty high and MPG could be pretty good running empty.

My old 1977 & 1978 Scouts had 345 c.i. V8s that made about 300-lb.ft. (247 - 292 lb.ft. depending the version) and a low 144-163 HP, with a 2-bbl. carburetor. I think we can ask and hope for 100 extra HP and torque for the last 30-years :-) The MPG was poor.

A little much on the torque, horse power is about right for a 1/2 ton.

That in a Tacoma would be sweet!...might twist the frame apart though...:D...and drive shafts, and axles, fry clutches...and...

The new Tacoma's are what?...240 hp?...260's for torque?...make that an even 300 on both ends, would be a nice little stump puller, yes?

dieselcruiserhead

12-17-2007, 03:28 PM

diesel HP is way different.. My last diesel conversion had 120hp and 305 ft/lbs of torque and screamed up the big freeway grades in 5th gear with no issues... Feels like a V8 on the freeway with a borderline unstallable wall of torque you can't even brake through at low RPMs, you can idle up anything in front of you at 400-650 rpms. 250hp and over 400ft lbs will feel very very powerful, much more than your average V8...

haven

12-19-2007, 06:50 PM

Ford, Chevy and Dodge have all announced plans to add a smaller diesel to their light pickup and SUV lines. Most will appear in mid to late 2009 as 2010 models.

Nissan's Titan pickup and Armada SUV need a more fuel-efficient engine to stay competitive. So Nissan held discussions with Navistar about the possibility of using the the new Navistar VT275 V6 diesel (4.5L, 200 hp, 440 ft lbs) in the full-size Titan pickup. But these talks ended without reaching an agreement.

The reason may be that Nissan is losing money on slow Titan and Armada sales. Nissan management is trying to decide if they should drop out of the full size pickup and SUV market, or sell re-badged versions of the Dodge Ram pickup.

If Nissan chooses to sell re-badged Dodges, that could mean that trucks running the new Cummins V6 (4.2L, 270 hp and 420 lb-ft) could be available through your Nissan dealer.

Those new folks running Chrysler also made a deal with Volkswagen to provide VW dealers with a modified version of the highly regarded Town and Country minivan. What's next, re-badged Vipers for Kia?

Chip Haven

haven

12-20-2007, 05:42 PM

Autoblog is reporting that GM has agreed to sell its medium duty truck business (the Topkick and Kodiak models) to Navistar. The GM Duramax diesel will be replaced with Navistar subsidiary International's VT365, the same engine Ford calls the Powerstroke.

The advantage to Navistar in this arrangement is clear. With Ford and International taking turns filing lawsuits against one another, it's only a matter of time before Ford turns to another engine manufacturer. This deal gives International a new platform for their engines.

I think that GM will continue to sell the VT365-powered Topkick. Navistar will probably sell the trucks under its International brand name, too.

Chip Haven

Jacket

12-27-2007, 04:00 PM

Good article in Popular Mechanics this month touting the benefits of Diesel engines.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4237945.html?series=19

haven

01-14-2008, 04:43 PM

On 12 January at the Detroit Auto Show, Toyota officials announced that clean-diesel V-8 versions of the Tundra pickup and Sequoia SUV will be available for sale within the next 24 months. No word about fitting this engine into the Land Cruiser for North America.

The engine used will likely be a variant of the 4.5L twin turbo V8 that Toyota installs in the Land Cruiser outside North America. In Australian trim, the 4.5L V8 diesel puts out 480 lb ft (650 nm) of torque. That's 20% more torque than the current Toyota 5.7L V8 gas engine produces. Power ratings may decline a bit due to the effect of USA emissions controls.

Chevrolet, Dodge and Ford previously announced plans to place similar V8 diesels in their full size pickups and SUVs by 2010. GM has a 4.5L Duramax designed with Isuzu, Ford a 4.4L diesel of their own design (goodbye, International!), Dodge has two options developed by Cummins (4.2L V6 and 5.3L V8 diesels). These "light duty" diesels are 400 to 500 lbs lighter than the "medium duty" 6+L diesels maufacturers place in their heavy duty pickups today.

Chip Haven

dieselcruiserhead

01-14-2008, 05:12 PM

I caught that this morning, that is just awesome... There have been rumors of it for years and nice to see it finally happening. It was originally supposed to happen this year (2008).

ChuckB

01-14-2008, 05:26 PM

hmmm...

FJ55 + TOY 4.5L Twin Turbo diesel V8 :rockon:

dieselcruiserhead

01-14-2008, 05:37 PM

another neat one that came out over the weekend:

http://autoshow.autos.msn.com/autoshow/Detroit2008/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=6001833&GT1=10763

olympiccop2002

01-14-2008, 10:43 PM

Sweet Mother of Mercy! Audi R8 Diesel. 500 hp, 737 lb-ft of torque, 0-60 in 4.2 seconds, over 186 mph top speed, and still pulls in 24 mpg! INSANE! I want one... :drool:

Bjorn

GaryMc

01-15-2008, 12:25 AM

On 12 January at the Detroit Auto Show, Toyota officials announced that clean-diesel V-8 versions of the Tundra pickup

Chip Haven

Can the Tacoma be far behind?

haven

01-22-2008, 04:13 AM

Autoweek is reporting that Honda has plans to put a 4 cylinder turbodiesel into the Acura TSX. This is easy, since the new engine is designed to fit in the European version of the Accord, and the TSX is based on this model.

2010 should bring the introduction of a new V6 turbodiesel. Acura TL and MDX should receive this engine. Honda will install the V6 in a few of their models, perhaps in the new Pilot SUV.

None of this directly affects adventure trave vehicles, but shows how diesel will be a mainstream choice by 2010. Add to this acceptance the new fuel efficiency rules, and all auto makers will be happy to put a diesel in their best selling models.

Chip Haven

haven

01-25-2008, 03:04 AM

Car and Driver is reporting that Subaru will introduce a 2.0L turbodiesel engine for its Legacy and Outback models in Europe later this year. The engine will be adapted to the Forester and Impreza the following year. No power and torque numbers were released.

Apparently the tight space in the engine compartment of the Subaru models makes it difficult to fit a larger, more powerful engine. Subaru doesn't want its models down on power compared to competing diesel offerings from Honda and Toyota, so it remains to be seen how long we have to wait to see a diesel Subaru in North America.

The 2009 Forester is a larger vehicle than the model on sale now, closer in size to 2008 Toyota RAV4. The new Forester has 8.8 inches of ground clearance plus Subaru's all wheel drive. A diesel engine would be an interesting addition to this model.

Chip Haven

theMec

01-25-2008, 03:22 PM

I'd love to see the 4 cyl diesel boxer over here. The boxer is a beautifully engineered design. Decent power w/ pretty good mileage. I think the American public is starting to understand the power isn't everything. Nice that Subaru is, at least, introducing it in Europe.

KMR

01-25-2008, 04:05 PM

It's great that they have comited to Eroupe, fingers crossed for the US!
Early press release numbers indicated 110kW, 350Nm for the 2.0.

:drool:

haven

01-30-2008, 04:08 PM

Edmunds Inside Track blog has a report about driving the 2.0L turbodiesel in a European version of the Legacy sedan.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=124553?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..2 .*

"The boxer diesel produces 148 horsepower at 3,600 rpm and 258 pound-feet of torque at just 1,800 rpm. The engine is capable of 60.5 mpg...In top gear, the diesel takes 23.4 seconds to accelerate from 50 to 100 mph, a veritable sprint compared with the 37.0 seconds it takes a Legacy with a normally aspirated 2.0-liter gasoline engine..."

Subaru has no plans to import this engine to USA because it doesn't meet California diesel emissions rules. But they are looking into what needs to be changed.

Chip Haven

calamaridog

01-31-2008, 09:32 AM

The Other Green Engine: Diesel?

European carmakers bet America is ready for a radical new vehicle.
By Joann Muller
Forbes.com

Looking for a fuel-efficient alternative to your current gas-guzzler? How about a car that gets 30% better fuel economy, doesn't require a giant battery in the trunk or have to be plugged into the wall, and can travel 600 miles between fill-ups?

Believe it or not, automakers may have a tough time selling those attributes to consumers later this year, when a new generation of diesel-powered vehicles arrives in dealerships. Images from the 1970s--of rattling engines and tailpipes spewing black soot--are hard to shake. And, thanks to superb marketing by Toyota maker of the Prius hybrid, Americans are convinced hybrids are the only green choice available, despite some discussion of diesel cars' potential.

Until now, that was largely true. Aside from heavy-duty pickups, only about 3% of U.S. light-duty vehicles are powered by diesel today. Tougher emissions rules bumped several diesels, like the Jeep Liberty, off the road in recent years. And in some states, like California and New York, diesels aren't sold at all because the state emissions laws are even tougher. (One exception: Mercedes E320 Bluetec--a special version was recently made available in California.)

But a new generation of modern diesels is on its way to all 50 states, led by carmakers based in Europe, where half of all consumers prefer diesels.

By late summer, the first of those modern diesels will arrive: the Volkswagen Jetta TDI. VW says it will get over 50 miles per gallon on the highway (40 mpg around town), and can go over 600 miles between fill-ups. Prices will start in the low $20,000s, about $2,000 more than a traditional Jetta.

Later this year, Mercedes, BMW and Audi will bring their own so-called "clean" diesels to the United States. By 2010, availability of diesel-powered cars is expected to jump sharply as other automakers, including Acura and Jeep, begin offering them, too. By 2017, J.D. Power & Associates forecasts 14% of cars sold in the U.S. will have diesel engines. Germany's Robert Bosch, a major supplier of critical diesel components, forecasts diesel penetration in light-duty pickups and SUVs will reach 20% by 2015.

"I'm pretty optimistic this might be just the beginning," says Daimler AG Chief Executive Dieter Zetsche. Daimler's Mercedes division sold 12,500 diesels in the U.S. last year, even without California or New York, its two largest markets. This fall, it will begin selling three SUV models with advanced diesel engines: the ML320 Bluetec, R320 Bluetec and GL320 Bluetec.

Diesel versions of BMW's 3-series sedan and X5 sport utility will also go on sale this fall. Says BMW Chief Executive Norbert Reithofer: "We realized that with the additional weight of a hybrid battery, the miles per gallon is not as good as we thought. We think the better solution at the moment is diesel."

But Reithofer admits BMW made a mistake by not pushing diesels years earlier, when hybrids started grabbing attention. Now, he and Zetsche agree: It will take the combined marketing efforts of all the European carmakers to turn Americans' heads. "We need an action together to sell diesels in the U.S.," says Reithofer.

One likely selling point: performance. Consumers want peppy performance, and thus, tend to buy bigger engines with more horsepower. But the rush you feel when you push the accelerator is thanks to the engine's torque, not its horsepower. A V-6 diesel can deliver as much torque as a larger V-8, with much better fuel economy.

There's another advantage to diesels: Their resale value is two to three times that of a traditional gasoline-powered car. VW spokesman Keith Price, for example, says a 1998 Jetta TDI (diesel) with 175,000 miles is worth $7,500 today. The same car, with a 2.0-liter, four-cylinder gasoline engine "is a $2,000 'beater' you'd buy for your teenager."

haven

03-01-2008, 04:41 AM

Mercedes is planning to release a smaller SUV vehicle in late 2009 as a 2010 model. The new vehicle will be called the GLK. It's a 5 passenger cute-ute, about the size of the Subaru Forester, VW Tiguan and BMW X3.

Here's a show car version of the car, called the Vision GLK.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z241/expeditioncampers/glk-1.jpg

The show car has a number of exaggerated features that won't make it into the production model (those wheels, for example).

The GLK will ship with a very potent 2.2L turbodiesel engine under the hood. The engine currently produces 168 horsepower and 369 lb-ft torque. A 7-speed automatic transmission passes that power to a 4MATIC full time 4-wheel drive system.

In comparison, the 2.0L VW Tiguan turbo diesel is expected to produce 235 lb ft of torque. The Subaru 2.0L turbodiesel is rated at 258 lb-ft. Of course, these models will cost about half of the GLK's $40,000+ price.

BMW holds the performance crown today with the X3 3.0sd, a six cylinder twin turbo engine that generates 286hp and 428 ft-lb. This model is available in Europe only.

Mercedes is thinking about producing a 3.2L V6 diesel that could match that BMW powerplant. MBZ also has a 2.2L diesel-hybrid in the works that is estimated to produce 40 mpg in typical driving.

These new models from Mercedes, BMW, VW and Subaru have to be putting the pressure on Toyota. The Lexus GX470 is still a body-on-frame model, and has no diesel option. Its 4.7L gas V8 is optimistically rated at 17 mpg overall. Sure would be nice if Toyota would import its D-4D 2.0L turbodiesel!

Chip Haven

vengeful

03-02-2008, 12:19 AM

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/03/golftdihybrid_sneak-(3)_450.jpg

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/01/geneva-08-preview-69-mpg-vw-golf-tdi-hybrid-leaks-out/

Auto Bild has decided to "help" Volkswagen introduce the VW Golf TDI Hybrid concept that the automaker will be unveiling in Geneva a few days from now. So, how does it look? Pretty impressive. The car mates a 75 PS (74 HP) 3-cylinder TDI (presumably the 1.4L used in the Polo BlueMotion), a 27 horsepower electric motor and a 7-speed DSG to average 69 mpg (3.4l/100km) in the European cycle with carbon dioxide emissions of just 90 g/km. The electric motor is powered by a trunk-mounted NiMH battery. Based on the Google Translation of the page, we glean that the Golf TDI Hybrid is a full hybrid capable of running on electric power, diesel power or a combination of the two. It also uses regenerative braking, a stop/start system, and one of those energy monitor videogame screens that gives you a graphical representation of the powertrain's activity. Visually, the car sports a new Vivid Blue finish and employs narrower grillework, a lowered suspension, and low-rolling-resistance rubber to help maximize aerodynamics and fuel economy. We'll bring you full details from the show next week.

haven

03-04-2008, 02:25 PM

Mercedes has announced plans to produce a hybrid model of the company's large "S" series sedan. North American delivery is expected in late 2009 as a 2010 model.

The S300 Bluetec Hybrid uses the same 2.2-liter, twin-turbocharged, four-cylinder diesel engine and electric motor setup planned for the GLK mentioned two posts back. Electric power will be stored in lithium ion battery packs, a first for large volume production vehicles. (The Tesla uses lithium ion batteries, too.)

The powertrain will produce 221 hp, 413 lb-ft of torque and a whopping 43.6 mpg.

Chip Haven

haven

03-04-2008, 02:34 PM

Autoweek spent two weeks driving the Grand Cherokee with 3.0L Bluetec Mercedes diesel. Here is their report:

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080304/FREE/585132957/1506/THISWEEKSISSUE

They liked the engine's performance (376 lb-ft of torque to move the Grand Cherokee's 4700 lb curb weight), the observed 19 mpg, and the relatively small $1600 premium you have to pay for the diesel engine.

Autoweek was less enthusiastic about the ergonomics of the Grand Cherokee, particularly for rear seat passengers.

Chip Haven

Metcalf

03-04-2008, 06:21 PM

I had someone very reliable tell me to watch Easter Jeep Safari this year for an 'interesting' release from Jeep.

Redline

03-04-2008, 06:46 PM

I'm a long time diesel enthusiast but I came to a similar conclusion when shopping for a new 4x4 to replace my '05 LJ Rubicon 14-months ago. I was confident the MB Diesel in the Grand Cherokee was going to be a great motor, but I was not excited about the rest of the car (unibody, looks, quality?, waiting for Summer delivery) and decided on a V8 4Runner. The 4Runner (my first Japanese car) was available immediately and I have not been disappointed. But if a diesel was in a different platform :-)

Autoweek spent two weeks driving the Grand Cherokee with 3.0L Bluetec Mercedes diesel. Here is their report:

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080304/FREE/585132957/1506/THISWEEKSISSUE

They liked the engine's performance (376 lb-ft of torque to move the Grand Cherokee's 4700 lb curb weight), the observed 19 mpg, and the relatively small $1600 premium you have to pay for the diesel engine.

Autoweek was less enthusiastic about the ergonomics of the Grand Cherokee, particularly for rear seat passengers.

Chip Haven

Redline

03-04-2008, 06:56 PM

I spoke to a friend today who shared third hand info reportedly from a good source that Jeep is 'planning' a Diesel Wrangler, they just need to work out the emissions (which of course is possible).

When/if that happens I might have a very nice 4Runner for sale (that I want to keep) or maybe I can convince my wife she ‘needs’ a new Diesel Jeep!

I had someone very reliable tell me to watch Easter Jeep Safari this year for an 'interesting' release from Jeep.

jingram

03-06-2008, 03:04 PM

Dave Harrington who is the President of AEV mentioned over in the their forums to watch the easter safari about an exciting announcement from Jeep. This was posted in a thread about putting the 2.8 CRD into the LJ and working through the process.

I would LOVE to see a diesel in the JK. My Xterra would be out the door just as soon as I could get my hands on a JK Rubicon Unlimited with a diesel. However, I hope they do not make the mistake and price it so far above the 3.8 that most people balk at the price regardless of the better fuel economy and potential durability of the motor.

I really think the 3.0 MB CRD would have been a good choice, but everything points to a 4.2 Cummins now. Guess we just have to wait, see, and pray... lol

Redline

03-06-2008, 03:09 PM

Agreed, the MB 3.0 is a great choice. But I love Cummins, and with Chrysler no longer being part of MB it might make more sense. Cummins has a great name and respect in the U.S.A.

Dave Harrington who is the President of AEV mentioned over in the their forums to watch the easter safari about an exciting announcement from Jeep. This was posted in a thread about putting the 2.8 CRD into the LJ and working through the process.

I would LOVE to see a diesel in the JK. My Xterra would be out the door just as soon as I could get my hands on a JK Rubicon Unlimited with a diesel. However, I hope they do not make the mistake and price it so far above the 3.8 that most people balk at the price regardless of the better fuel economy and potential durability of the motor.

I really think the 3.0 MB CRD would have been a good choice, but everything points to a 4.2 Cummins now. Guess we just have to wait, see, and pray... lol

ExpoMike

03-06-2008, 03:28 PM

I'll really interested in a JK Unlimited CRD and would be the most likely choice to replace our Cherokee. We had rented a 4 door and 2 door JK when we were in Hawaii twice last year and I loved the 4 door. Everything was just a little bigger then the Cherokee, which at times feels a little small, especially for anyone in the back seat. I just don't want the current 3.8 engine since we will be towing our Kamparoo trailer and it was just okay without towing anything.

Here's waiting to see. With all the advancements in deisel in the recent years, I am suprised the USA is so slow to see them come in. Oh well...

4Rescue

03-06-2008, 08:18 PM

haven

03-14-2008, 05:53 AM

Mercedes, BMW, VW and Audi plan to use the AdBlue urea injection technology to produce a 50-states legal diesel SUV in the 2009 model year. Mercedes will have urea injection versions of the R-, ML- and GL-320 vehicles this Fall. BMW will follow soon after with a urea-injection setup in an X5. A diesel VW Tuareg and Audi Q7 are also on the way.

In each of these models, the urea and water mixture is carried in its own tank, and injected into the exhaust to reduce NOx emissions. The tank will have to be re-filled every 15,000 miles or so as a regular part of vehicle maintenance.

mauricio_28

03-14-2008, 07:08 AM

...
Unfortunately, few companies are talking about developing small four cylinder diesels for the North American market. The only exception is VW, which will introduce a new 2.0L 4 cylinder diesel with 140hp and 200 lb ft in 2008.
Chip Haven

That Nissan and Toyota are not talking about developing four cylinder diesels may have to do with the fact that they have already developed them. Both Nissan and Toyota sell vehicles with 2.5L and 3.0L TDI engines already. The former (YD25DDTi) peaks out at 174hp and 297 lb.ft.

chet

03-14-2008, 04:13 PM

I am a big diesel fan but lately have been questioning my loyalty! :confused:

Diesel up here is a fair amount more expensive than gas plus you pay a premium to buy a new diesel rig. Heck a cummins dodge truck is like $4 grand more for the diesel option.

Based on what I have heard there is only a limited amount of diesel production due to the way the refineries are equipped and biodiesel has its downfalls when it gets cold up here.

Plus unless they figure out the mileage thing the liberty was not getting that much better mileage over the gas model.

A diesel 4 door JK would be perfect for me but not if they charge $$$ for it.

Redline

03-14-2008, 05:08 PM

Very valid points and concerns. The devil is in the details, not only the fuel and option costs, but also the rapidly changing emissions controls and maintenance requirements.

Not that newer vehicles/diesels don't interest me, but I'm confident that in the short term the best diesel options are the ones I already own. My 1996 F350 7.3L Power Stroke/T444E has very little emissions equipment on it, only a cat converter. Our 2000 Golf TDI does have EGR which is a problem as it does clog up the engine intake. But I plan to do a major clean and some mods in another 10k when it reaches 100k.

The engine option cost on new trucks is a concern, but on vehicles like our little Golf that get substantially better MPG (40-mpg city) fuel will have to almost double compared to gas to make the car less economical.

I am a big diesel fan but lately have been questioning my loyalty! :confused:

Diesel up here is a fair amount more expensive than gas plus you pay a premium to buy a new diesel rig. Heck a cummins dodge truck is like $4 grand more for the diesel option.

Based on what I have heard there is only a limited amount of diesel production due to the way the refineries are equipped and biodiesel has its downfalls when it gets cold up here.

Plus unless they figure out the mileage thing the liberty was not getting that much better mileage over the gas model.

A diesel 4 door JK would be perfect for me but not if they charge $$$ for it.

haven

03-18-2008, 04:58 PM

Cars with small turbo diesel engines are very fuel efficient in real-world tests.

The Times of London took a Prius and a BMW 520d on a road trip from London to Geneva, about 500 miles. Then they added an additional 100 miles in city traffic. The 2.0L turbo diesel in the 520 recorded 41.9 mpg, while the Prius achieved 40.0 mpg. The torque of the diesel engine makes the 520d 2.7 seconds faster to 60 mph, too.

Audi France invited a dozen journalists to take new diesel-powered A4 four door sedans for a drive. The route went from Paris to Madrid, a distance of about 780 miles. The most fuel-efficient team recorded 52.9 mpg. The least efficient was 49.8 mpg.

BMW has no plans to import the 2.0L diesel to USA. The Audi A4s were powered by the same 2.0L turbo diesel that VW will sell in USA starting this summer.

Chip Haven

haven

03-25-2008, 04:48 PM

I read in the newspaper this morning that the national average price of #2 diesel fuel is $3.99. That's up from $2.80 a year ago, an increase of 42%.

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp

The current national average price for diesel fuel is 22% higher than the cost of unleaded gasoline. So a diesel vehicle needs to get 20%+ better fuel mileage to have the same fuel cost per mile driven. 20% is true for most diesels, making the cost of fuel per mile driven tip in favor of the diesel despite the higher price per gallon.

The price of every item delivered by truck will have to rise to cover this increased cost. Truckers are helping stretch each gallon by driving more slowly (or not, at least where I live).

Diesel fuel prices are higher than gasoline because

1. Worldwide demand for diesel fuel and other distillate fuel oils has been increasing steadily, particularly in Asia.

2. Almost all diesel fuel consumed in USA comes from refineries in this country. Refining capacity is tight and running at 90%+. If a refinery has difficulties or is shut down for maintenance, the supply gets tighter.

3. In the U.S., the transition to low-sulfur diesel fuel has affected diesel fuel production and distribution costs.

4. The USA Federal excise tax on diesel fuel is 6 cents higher per gallon (24.4 cents per gallon) than the tax on gasoline.

chet

03-26-2008, 03:59 PM

I didn't read the article but does it mention the higher cost to purchase a diesel? take a while to recoup that when the mileage is the same (factoring in the higher diesel cost)

overlander

03-26-2008, 06:46 PM

haven

03-26-2008, 07:33 PM

"I didn't read the article but does it mention the higher cost to purchase a diesel?"

The web link is to a page provided by the Department of Energy, listing weekly average fuel prices by region, and for the USA as a whole. It doesn't talk about total cost of ownership issues, just fuel prices.

Thinking about total cost of ownership, in USA there's usually some price premium for a diesel engine. Not so in Europe, where diesel engines are often (not always) priced similar to gas engines with comparable output. Maybe it's a tax code thing?

The price premium you pay for a diesel varies a lot. In the Jeep Grand Cherokee, the premium is about $1600. For a 2006 VW Jetta TDI, the premium was about $2000. In the pickup truck market, it's $5000 to $7000.

It's worth remembering that you get some or all of that premium back when you sell the car. According to Kelly Blue Book, the 2006 Jetta TDI is actually worth up to $8,000 more at trade-in time than comparably equipped Jetta models witth the 2.5L or 2.0L turbo gas engines.

For total cost of ownership calculations, include the cost of service. The diesel engines usually need oil changes more frequently, and it usually take more quarts of oil to fill the crankcase. Otherwise, the maintenance is about the same up to 100,000 miles. At this point the modern gasoline engines need a more expensive service than their diesel counterparts.

Beyond 100,000 miles, the diesel starts to pull ahead. Diesel fuel is less corrosive and lubricates better than gasoline, so internal engine parts last longer.

Where I live, annual emissions inspections are more expensive for diesels than cars with gas engines. But you might get fewer speeding tickets in your diesel!

Chip Haven

chet

03-26-2008, 07:57 PM

ha fewer speeding tickets? My dad has a 2007 dodge cummins and the thing is a rocket!

I guess I am just losing interest in diesel as it used to be a double edged win with better mileage and lower price per gallon. now that has changed I don't see as much advantage now.

Also whats going to happen in 5 years when more diesels are on the road and there is even more demand for it?

sleeoffroad

03-26-2008, 11:16 PM

Not sure where to post this, but we helped the guys from
www.biodieseladventure.com out today. Did our bit for the environment, helped them with a rack and a bunch of jerry cans for the vegetable oil they collect. Also some wolf boxes and storage bag.

http://www.sleeoffroad.com/forum_pics/biodiesel.jpg

Christian P.

03-27-2008, 02:55 AM

biere

03-27-2008, 05:00 AM

I just like diesels so keep that in mind when wondering how hard I crunched the numbers to compare a gas engine to my diesel, I crunched no numbers other than deciding I would not pay 5k to get a diesel in my jeep.

I have an 07 grand cherokee with the 3.0 diesel and it needs its oil changed at 6k or 12k miles, depends on what schedule you fall into with how you drive it. I will do 6k for the first change since I have a hard time waiting right now.

It does take a really spiffy synthetic oil to do this, but I don't know if the gassers can go 12k on an oil change and still meet factory warranty stuff. I figure the oil cost should be similar, I don't think I am cheaper than a gasser when all is considered, but I sure do like 6k or 12k mile oil changes.

I understand the fuel costs more, but once bought and in my fuel tank my range is pretty decent stock and a couple 5 gallon jerry cans will really make me comfortable as I learn how the mileage does offroad.

I just like a turbo and low end torque and I kind of like no spark plugs and what not. Today's diesels sure are complicated though so I am not about to say working on this engine is any easier or harder than a gasser, it just kind of depends on how you look at things.

Overall I think the diesel will not pay for itself, if it does that is great but I am not taking bets going either way since I like my jeep but don't really expect it to be perfect for its entire life.

But the diesel does offer some benefits when considering range on a gallon of fuel, fuel compatability with some other stuff I already own, and it is kind of cool to have the smallest engine offered in the jeep grand cherokee.

sleeoffroad

03-27-2008, 11:23 AM

Christo,

This is AMAZING! My friends work for the BioDiesel association in Berkeley - I wonder if they've seen him. Looks like he's already passed SF.

Does he carry his own processing plant in the back??

http://gogo.web6.jp/bio/

http://gogo.web6.jp/bio/IMG_0899.JPG

Yes, the site has the details, but they have a full processing plant that they use while on the road. We did not get a chance to talk about that aspect a lot, but very cool people with a very cool truck.

mauricio_28

03-27-2008, 02:57 PM

Nah, thanks. I'd rather take the subway than make my own diesel.

dieselcruiserhead

03-27-2008, 05:15 PM

There are several ways to produce biodiesel, that is one of the more high tech setups I have seen. But I also imagine it is fairly automated and produces very high quality fuel. Very cool regardless :)

overlander

04-01-2008, 01:05 PM

Finally! :wings: Someone is taking action! From AP this morning:

Truckers to Strike Over Record Diesel Prices, Some Paying Up to $1,200 to Fill-Up

MEDFORD, Ore. — Independent U.S. truckers are planning to stop hauling freight today in protest of record-high diesel prices that drivers say they can no longer afford.

Independent truckers, who constitute 90 percent of the nation's trucking fleet, are being hit especially hard by soaring diesel prices and compensation lags far behind rising costs, according to the American Trucking Association.

"Diesel used to be 30 to 40 cents cheaper than regular gasoline; now it's 30 to 40 cents more," said independent truck driver Gordon Gravely, of Helena, Mont., who stopped at the Phoenix Petro Truck Stop on his way to Roseburg, Oregon.... :ar15:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,344170,00.html

JackW

04-01-2008, 07:48 PM

more like 70 cents a gallon more locally.....than regular gas

haven

04-07-2008, 05:44 AM

According to an article in Motor Trend, Volkswagen's 2.0L turbo diesel will be available for purchase this coming August. The diesel will be legal in all 50 states. We'll see it in the Jetta sedan and Sportswagen first, and later in the Tiguan.

The 2.0L diesel engine will produce about 140 horsepower and 236 pound-feet of torque in USA trim. Transmissions include a six-speed manual, six-speed automatic with Tiptronic, and the six-speed DSG with paddle-shift.

No announcement has been made about the cost of the diesel option. Most estimates I've read are around $2000.

I expect we'll see this same engine and transmission package in the Audi A3 and A4 at some point in the 2009 model year.

I'm not sure what VW's plans are for diesel engines in the New Beetle or Rabbit. I think the Passat will get a new 3.0L V6 diesel, also expected in the Touareg in late 2009 or early 2010.

Chip Haven

haven

04-08-2008, 05:03 AM

Nissan just announced plans to produce a new line of light commercial vehicles in the Texas plant that produces the Titan pickup. Details are very sketchy, but it appears that one of the designs will be a chassis-cab version of the Titan with a new diesel engine from Cummins and transmission from ZF. Cummins has plans to produce 4.2L V-6 and 5.6L V-8 diesels, so the new Nissan will probably use one of these.

Given this news, I think it's likely we'll see a Cummins diesel in a Titan 4x4 pickup in a couple of years.

Chip Haven

pwc

04-08-2008, 05:53 AM

I get 18mpg with my 2.8 Powerstroke, verus 10mpg with the original 3.9 V8 in my 110. I also have no ECU's or emissions due to the efficiency of this mechanical diesel engine, and I can run biodiesel.

I have no regrets.

p.s. distributors suck..

I'm right there with you. Although I hope to wring out a couple more MPG with some changes. I was down to 9PMG on the gas engine with a couple of missing cylinders. The sheer simplicity of the 2.8 TGV boggles me. When I was still getting everything settled I got a clog in the main fuel line after 3000 miles. I simply ran two hoses through the hole that used to take all the ECU wires into the engine bay, and dropped them in a 5 gallon Scepter can. Drove for over 500 miles that way (not on the same fill up, mind you, but even changing hoses it started right up). Not all my gauges works....doesn't matter, just turn the key and it starts. forgot to hook up one important wire when fiddling with the electronics on the battery...doesn't matter....just made sure the starter and fuel solenoid were hooked up and it started and ran. I love the simplicity. We own three diesels and I wouldn't have it any other way (although we'll be selling the Suburban now that the 110 is working).

mauricio_28

04-08-2008, 06:36 AM

The only Diesel News that I can share is that I picked up my Common-rail TDI (YD25DDTi) Nissan Navara less than a week ago. Biodiesel here in Jakarta runs for a bit less than US$0.50 per liter. Long gone are the old diesel ills. The engine is vibration-free and quiet.

dieselcruiserhead

04-08-2008, 02:27 PM

Can't remember if it has been mentioned but there has been discussion of Subaru producing a diesel lately. According to what I have heard there are good odds it will be here in 2010...

More details on it:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0801_subaru_boxer_turbodiesel_first_drive/

haven

04-13-2008, 05:54 PM

Mercedes has been hard at work developing new versions of diesel engines to meet the Euro 5 emissions standards, due to take effect with the 2010 model year. The latest model is new 4 cylinder turbo diesel design called the 220 CDI that produces about 175 hp and 300 lb-ft. This engine will be available in the Mercedes C Class and E Class in late 2009, so taxis all over Europe will be using it.

It's likely that Chrysler will replace the 2.8L diesel sourced from VM Motori with this new 2.2L model for Chrysler products sold in Europe. These include the Chrysler van, the 300 sedan, and several Jeep models. So there's an outside chance that this new engine will appear as an option in Chrysler products sold in North America.

If it's true that the 3.0L V6 turbo diesel is too wide to fit easily in the Wrangler, then this four cylinder model is the engine we're likely to see in a JK. Hopefully it will be cheaper to buy, too.

Chip Haven

haven

04-13-2008, 06:43 PM

Ford showed its new 4.4L V8 turbo diesel to truck dealers at a meeting in Las Vegas recently. The new engine is based on a Ford of Europe design that first appeared in 2004. (Goodbye, Navistar!) Power rating is expected to be around 325 hp and 500 ft-lbs. That's more torque than produced by Ford's supercharged 5.4L V8 gas engine. Fuel economy is expected to be much better than the 5.4L V8, too.

The new diesel V8 will appear first in the F150 and Expedition as an option in 2010. It's also likely to be installed in Ford's full size van at some later date. Anyone interested in a 4.4L turbo diesel camper van?

Chip Haven

mountainpete

04-13-2008, 06:57 PM

According to an article in Motor Trend, Volkswagen's 2.0L turbo diesel will be available for purchase this coming August.

Chip,

I think I think it might even be sooner that that - VW has started commercials already. Saw one last night.

Pete

boblynch

04-14-2008, 06:18 PM

Ford showed its new 4.4L V8 turbo diesel to truck dealers at a meeting in Las Vegas recently. The new diesel V8 will appear first in the F150 and Expedition as an option in 2010. It's also likely to be installed in Ford's full size van at some later date. Anyone interested in a 4.4L turbo diesel camper van?

Chip thanks for the update. It looks like it will also be offered as the base engine in the Super Duty lineup. If you don't want to tow 26K at 75mph, the current engine is overkill IMHO. A new, lighter motor should be able to handle respectable payloads and offer better mpg. Based on the attached poster it looks like a 20% bump over the revised F150 5.4L gas engine. If my math's right that's about 20mpg. Figure a lower number for a Super Duty chassis, but a big improvement over the current 6.4L diesel.
17945

Bob

haven

04-15-2008, 02:40 PM

Bob,

Thanks for the photo of the spec sheet. The EPA says the 5.4L V8 in the F150 two wheel drive pickup attains 18 mpg highway. So a 20% improvement with the 4.4L diesel engine would translate to 21.6 mpg, not bad for a heavy vehicle with relatively poor aerodynamics. My Honda minivan gets only 22 mpg in highway driving (around here you have to drive 80 to keep the semi trucks from running you down).

Now we need to know how much Ford will charge for the diesel option in the F150.

Chip Haven

boblynch

04-16-2008, 06:33 PM

Given the level of interest in this thread, and the rapid changes in the diesel marketplace, I'd like to request that this thread be changed to a STICKY.

haven

04-21-2008, 06:45 PM

The folks at Edmunds Inside Line recently tested the 2008 Mercedes GL320 CDI diesel-powered SUV, and they came away impressed. Test results include:

0-60 mph in 8.8 seconds
60-0 braking in 123 ft
26 mpg on highway test loop, steady cruising

This latter result is better than the EPA's 24 mpg highway estimate.

List price for the GL320 CDI is $53,775, about $9000 less than a Land Cruiser. Part of the difference is due to the fact that the base GL320 CDI does not include leather seat covers. If you're planning to emphasize the "utility" in SUV, then this is an advantage.

The base price does include the following:

Air suspension, compensates for loads in the rear, can raise the vehicle 3 inches, to 10.9 inches

Off-road driving program recalibrates traction system, ABS, engine management, and auto trans for off-road driving

Downhill speed regulation controls throttle, brakes, and ABS to maintain pre-set speed as low as 3 mph

Hill start assist maintains brake pressure for a moment after brake is released

Antilock braking, 4 wheel disc system

4 wheel electronic traction system

electronic stability program

The 2008 Land Cruiser includes a two speed transfer case, making it a better low speed crawler. But the GL320 CDI's seven speed transmission includes a very low first gear.

I think we need to encourage the Overland Journal folks to take a look at the GL320 CDI.

Chip Haven

haven

04-23-2008, 02:07 PM

Autoweek staff had a chance to drive the European version of the Honda Civic, with a 2.2L 4 cylinder diesel engine. The 2.2L engine produces 138 hp and 250 lb-ft of torque. The car has a highway rating of 54 mpg from the European equivalent of the EPA. Autoweek recorded 40 mpg during a mix of city and freeway driving. Acura USA will offer this engine in the TSX sedan in 2009.

The 2008 Acura TSX is powered by a 2.4L gasoline engine that produces 205 hp and 164 lb-ft of torque. It's rated at 28 mpg in highway driving. If you can achieve 40 mpg using diesel, that's a 43% improvement. If 54 mpg is possible, that's 93% better, from an engine that produces 50% more torque!

The comparison looks sweeter when you consider that the TSX's 2.4L gas engine requires premium fuel. This narrows the gap between the pump price of gas and diesel fuel.

The 2.2L diesel would be a good replacement for the 2.3L turbocharged 4 cylinder engine in the 2008 RDX mini-SUV. This gas engine produces 250 ft-lb of torque, but returns only 22 mpg in the EPA highway cycle, also on premium gas.

This 2.2L is the same engine used in the 2004 Honda TSX that set a class endurance record of 130.37 mph for 24 hours on a track in Germany. The same test vehicles were later driven for maximum fuel efficiency on a course that included city and highway driving. Using lots of tricks to help reduce fuel consumption, the pro drivers achieved a rating of 92 miles per gallon!

The 2.2L diesel could also substitute for the 3.5L V6 gas engine used in the Odyssey and Pilot models. The 3.5L gas engine produces 244 hp and 240 lb.-ft. and rarely returns better than 20 mpg, even with Honda's "eco" mode that deactivates 3 cylinders under light throttle. It would be interesting to see how the 2.2L diesel with similar torque performs in these larger, heavier models.

Chip Haven

haven

04-28-2008, 01:45 PM

At Ford, testing is under way of a new diesel V8 for light and medium trucks. The new engine has a displacement of 6.7 liters, the same as the new 6 cylinder Cummins used by Dodge. The new Ford engine is paired with a 6 speed auto transmission, uprated to handle the increased torque.

This is the second new diesel Ford is developing in-house. The 4.4L V8 will see duty in the F150, SUVs and vans. The 6.7L will be available in the F350/F450/F550 models aimed at commercial buyers.

The 6.7L won't be available for several years, perhaps by 2011. When it is ready for production, Ford will end its long-term relationship with Navistar, the company that produces the Powerstroke diesels.

Losing Ford as a customer will be a problem for Navistar. Rumors suggested that Nissan would put a Powerstroke diesel in its Titan pickup. But that's unlikely now that Nissan has agreed to replace the Titan with a re-badged Dodge Ram.

Chip Haven

haven

04-28-2008, 02:35 PM

To promote the new 2009 Jetta with 2.0L diesel engine, VW is sponsoring a racing series called the VW TDI Cup. Read about the series here
http://www.vw.com/vwhype/motorsport/en/us/#/jetta_tdi_cup/

VW is building and maintaining all the vehicles used. Prepared for racing, the new 2.0L engine produces about 170 hp and 300 lb-ft of torque, up from 140 hp and 236 lb.-ft. in stock trim. VW is promoting the Jetta diesel as an environmentally friendly vehicle, so the race cars include all the emissions controls found on the stock Jetta.

The first race in the TDI Cup series was held at Virginia International Raceway recently as part of an SCCA race weekend. The racers recorded about 25 mpg during the event using standard #2 diesel.

Demo models of the 2009 Jetta Sportwagen with diesel engine should show up at the dealers sometime in June. Jetta diesels won't be available for delivery until the end of Summer.

The Jetta is assembled in VW's Puebla, Mexico plant.

haven

05-05-2008, 10:58 PM

GM says its new 4.5L turbo-diesel will produce 310 horsepower and 520 pound-feet of torque. Fuel efficiency will increase 25% compared to today's 5.3L gasoline V8. The 2008 Silverado 1500 4x4 with 5.3L V8 is EPA-rated at 14 city, 19 highway. So the 4.5L turbo diesel will return about 17 city, 24 highway, while producing more torque than the 5.3L or 6.0L gas engines do.

Autoblog has the full text of GM's press release:
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/05/gm-releases-details-on-upcoming-4-5l-duramax-turbo-diesel-v8/

The 4.5L diesel will appear first in the Silverado 1500 in the 2010 model year GM seems to be pushing the gasoline/electric hybrid engine for its SUVs right now (EPA 21 city/22 highway). So it may be a while longer before we see the 4.5L diesel in a Tahoe or Suburban.

Perhaps GM will offer the 4.5L diesel in its Hummer H2 as a way to improve EPA ratings (and influence public opinion). The H2's 6.2L gas V8 is rated at 10 city and 13 highway. The 4.5L diesel produces more torque than this engine as well (415 lb-ft for the gas engine vs 520 for the diesel). No, wait -- GM announced a couple of months ago that they have decided not to replace the H2 with a new model.

Because the 4.5L turbodiesel was specifically designed to fit in the same space as the 5.3L gas engine, it's possible that we will see diesel power in the Chevy Colorado and Hummer H3 at a later date.

It will be interesting to see how much GM charges for the 4.5L diesel option.

Chip Haven

haven

05-05-2008, 11:12 PM

Edmunds Inside Line blog recently posted their impressions of the Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited 4x4 with the Mercedes 3.0L turbo diesel

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=125933

Comparing engine options for the Limited:
4.7L gas V8: 334 lb-ft of torque and EPA 19 mpg highway.
3.0L diesel: 376 lb-ft of torque and EPA 22 mpg highway

Edmunds recorded 19.3 mpg in combined city/highway driving. I think I've seen other reports that had average mileage in the mid 20's, but I can't locate one right now.

The 3.0L diesel is a $1655 option for the expensive Limited 4x4 model.

Chip Haven

haven

05-15-2008, 04:44 PM

First Nissan agreed to buy Ram 1500 pickups, and Chrysler, in exchange, will buy a new Nissan small car for overseas markets. Now Autoblog is speculating that Chrysler will ditch the Mercedes Sprinter, and replace it with a delivery van built by Nissan, and powered by Cummins!

Nissan has already announced plans to build three new light commercial vehicles for the North American market in its Mississippi plant. The vehicles will probably be sold as cab/chassis, so commercial firms can upfit them with a range of body styles.

Cummins has two new diesel engine designs ready for production. The first is a 4.2L V6 that produces 270 hp and 420 lb-ft. The second is a 5.6L V8, rated around 325 hp and 500 lb-ft.

The new engines are modern designs that take advantage of emissions control technologies used in Cummins' new 6.7L inline 6 cylinder diesel. But the V6 and V8 engines are significantly lighter, making them appropriate to replace gas engines in light trucks.

Hmmmm. How about a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited with 4.2L Cummins V6? Maybe this is why Jeep didn't put the Mercedes 3.0L diesel into more Jeeps. On second thought, the 420 lb-ft is probably too powerful for the Jeep drivetrain. Do custom Jeeps with the 6.1L gas V8 need drivetrain upgrades?

Chip Haven

haven

05-20-2008, 12:46 PM

The NY Times had an opportunity to drive the European version of the Honda Accord with 2.2L turbodiesel. They recorded 53 mpg highway, 34 city, 44 mpg overall.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/automobiles/autoreviews/18DRIVE.html?scp=1&sq=honda+accord+diesel&st=nyt

This is the same engine that Autoweek tested recently in a Honda Civic. The lead-footed AutoWeek drivers recorded 40 mpg overall.

The Euro Accord is sold here as the Acura TSX. Acura is expected to introduce a diesel version of the TSX next year, perhaps as an early release of a 2010 model. If the 2.2L 4 cylinder diesel fits in a Civic, then it would fit in a CR-V or Acura RDX as well.

The US government's Gasoline and Diesel Fuel Price Update says the national average price of unleaded regular was $3.791 per gallon last week, and ultra low sulfur diesel cost $4.497 That means diesel was 19% more expensive. The 2008 Accord TSX is EPA-rated at a 22 mpg in combined city/highway driving. The NY Times result of 44 mpg overall in the Acura diesel is 200% more fuel efficient than the gasoline version. Conclusion: Even though diesel fuel costs more per gallon, it would still be cheaper per mile to drive the diesel.

It's interesting to compare the 2.2L diesel from Honda with the Mercedes engine of similar displacement. The Honda is tuned to produce 250 ft-lb, while the Mercedes produces 300 ft-lb of torque. Perhaps this is because Mercedes plans to use its 2.2L in larger cars like the E series sedans.

Chip Haven

haven

05-21-2008, 05:27 PM

The government website www.fueleconomy.gov has posted the EPA's test results for the 2009 Jetta TDI. With 2.0L turbodiesel and 6 speed manual trans, the EPA mileage estimate is 30 city, 41 highway, 34 combined.

The EPA rating of the 2009 Jetta with turbocharged 2.0L gasoline engine is 21 city, 31 highway, and 25 combined on premium fuel. So the diesel is 36% more fuel efficient than the gas model.

Using EPA combined numbers, the Jetta TDI is tied with the SmartCar for the title of most fuel efficient 2008/2009 model that is not a hybrid. Incidentally, the SmartCar 1.0L 3 cylinder engine requires premium fuel.

The car powered by regular fuel that comes the closest to the Jetta TDI is the 2008 Toyota Corolla with 1.8L 4 cylinder engine and 5 speed manual: 28 city, 37 highway, 31 mpg overall.

Michael Slade

05-21-2008, 05:35 PM

Running my Passat Tdi on biodiesel let's me completely justify in my mind how I am able to run a 'clean fuel vehicle' license plate.

'Technically' speaking, I'm not supposed to have it, but the DMV didn't say no when I asked, so I ran out clutching it to my chest like I'd just robbed the bank.

Those EPA #'s seem low. I know the previous generation Jetta diesels are getting 40+ on the highway, and some of the Golfs/Bugs are even getting 50+
TdiClub.com (http://www.tdiclub.com) is a great site for VW diesel stuff.

boblynch

05-29-2008, 12:06 AM

Edmunds is reporting that Toyota engineers have been working on at least two variations of the new clean-diesel engine, including the previously reported 4.5-liter unit and a larger 7.0-liter V8.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=126532

The 4.5-liter unit is planned for the 2010 model year Tundra and Sequoia. The 7.0-liter unit could be used for a heavy-duty version of the Tundra tentatively scheduled for 2011-2012.

Bob

Jacket

06-04-2008, 08:40 PM

Can't argue with these types of numbers:

"For a first attempt the new engine's figures are impressive. This comes despite Subaru eschewing technology like piezo injectors, as used in most modern diesel engines. The new engine delivers 148bhp and 258lb ft of torque, compared with 168bhp and 258lb ft from the most powerful variant of the VW group's all pervading 2-litre PD diesel - an impressive achievement for Subaru. Combined fuel consumption is 49.6mpg and the CO2 is 151g/km - again bang on the money."

http://cars.uk.msn.com/Reviews/article.aspx?cp-documentid=7283675

http://dieselforecast.com/ArticleDetails.php?articleID=431

haven

06-18-2008, 05:36 PM

The European automakers use small displacement diesels to good effect in their compact and sub-compact models. For example, the VW Polo with a 1.4L Bluemotion "clean" diesel, and the 1.6L Peugeot 308 HDI 90 are both rated at 70 mpg highway, 60 mpg city.

Last month, a Peugeot 308 HDI 110, a model with a more powerful version of the 1.6L diesel engine, was driven 9000 miles around the coastline of Australia, in 25 days. The average fuel consumption was 75.6 MPG.

Peugeot is working with Mitsubishi on a diesel-electric hybrid version of the 308 to further improve MPG and reduce emissions in city driving

(As a footnote, Peugeot and Audi diesel prototypes raced head-to-head at Le Mans this year. Peugeot qualified fastest, but an Audi won, with a Peugeot second.)

In contrast, USA and Japanese manufacturers seem focused on gasoline-electric hybrids as the solution for small cars with high MPG, reserving diesels for larger cars, vans and trucks.

Which small car would you prefer to buy, a clean diesel or a gasoline hybrid?

Chip Haven

Redline

06-18-2008, 05:50 PM

I would prefer the simplicity (even with new emissions) of a straight diesel power-plant over a hybrid. Turbocharged for high altitude induction and no batteries.

I hope our 'next' car is a very well made car with an excellent diesel that we can drive for 12-20 years.

haven

06-19-2008, 03:31 AM

VW just announced the MSRP for the diesel Jetta:

http://media.vw.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=10337

MSRP 2009
Jetta TDI.....$21,990
Jetta Sportwagen TDI.....$23,590

These prices are about $2000 more than the gasoline powered Jettas.

The Tiguan small SUV has an MSRP of $22,490, so when VW finally makes
a Tiguan with diesel engine available in North America, its price will probably
start around $25,000.

The EPA rates the 2009 Jetta TDI at 30 mpg city and 41 mpg highway.
VW was disappointed by the rating, and hired an independent lab to
conduct tests. The lab's results: 38 mpg city and 44 mpg highway.

Chip Haven

Redline

06-19-2008, 05:43 AM

While EPA ratings might not have been very accurate in the recent past, I would not be surprised if in this case, driven reasonably, that VW's MPG numbers are more realistic.

.....snip

The EPA rates the 2009 Jetta TDI at 30 mpg city and 41 mpg highway.
VW was disappointed by the rating, and hired an independent lab to
conduct tests. The lab's results: 38 mpg city and 44 mpg highway.

Chip Haven

haven

06-23-2008, 11:53 PM

Automotive News Europe is reporting that Porsche has selected an Audi 3.0L V6 turbodiesel for use in the Cayenne SUV. A version of the 3.0L engine produces 240hp and 369lb-ft when installed in an Audi A4, but Porsche may make some changes to tuning.

The diesel Cayenne will be introduced in Europe next Spring. No announcement was made about when the diesel Cayenne might make it to USA.

The Cayenne shares chassis parts and exterior sheetmetal with the VW Touarag SUV, but it is assembled in a separate plant controlled by Porsche.

VW says USA delivery of Touaregs with the 3.0L V6 diesel will start in 2009. At that point, VW will discontinue selling the 5.0L V-10 diesel in the Touareg.

cjmitchell5

06-24-2008, 03:37 AM

Does anyone know when the Tdi Sportwagen will be available? I've been waiting for them to finally make the wagon in the new body style!

haven

06-24-2008, 02:26 PM

Jetta TDI sedan and TDI Sportwagen are supposed to be available in August as 2009 models.

pskhaat

06-24-2008, 03:28 PM

Does the VW wagon have 3rd row seating?

haven

06-24-2008, 03:44 PM

This Fall, Nissan is introducing a new version of its Maxima large sedan. Sometime in 2009, Nissan will offer a 3.0L V6 diesel as an option for the Maxima. The new engine was developed by Nissan and its corporate partner, Renault. The engine will produce about 260 hp and 400 lb-ft. The diesel will use the typical modern emisions controls, will be 50-states legal.

There's some controversy about the transmission choices offered in the new Maxima diesel. Some reports say manual shift only, but that would limit the audience for the new model. CVT is a possibility, too.

The power from 3.0L V6 would be a good match for Nissan's larger vehicles like the Quest minivan and Pathfinder SUV. It might make it into the Frontier pickup.

In Thailand, Nissan produces a Frontier-lookalike called the Navara. It's powered by a 2.5L four cylinder turbodiesel that produces 172 hp and 297 lb-ft. I don't think this engine meets Euro and USA emissions standards, but it could be cleaned up.

Nissan is planning to end production of the Titan pickup and Armada SUV in 2010. They will sell re-badged versions of the Dodge RAM 1500, so any diesels in the full size pickups would be smaller V6 or V8 Cummins models.

Chip Haven

haven

06-26-2008, 04:14 PM

Autoblog recently posted a note about driving the 2009 Mercedes SUVs with diesel power. The fuel mileage they recorded for the ML320 Bluetec diesel in mixed driving was 27 mpg, and on the highway they averaged 29.5 mpg.

Mercedes charges about $1000 extra for diesel over the standard V6 gas engine with less torque, and $8000 less than the gas V8 that has similar torque.

Here's the Autoblog article
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/06/25/autobloggreen-first-drive-2009-mercedes-benz-bluetec-suvs/

mauricio_28

06-26-2008, 05:35 PM

...
In Thailand, Nissan produces a Frontier-lookalike called the Navara. It's powered by a 2.5L four cylinder turbodiesel that produces 172 hp and 297 lb-ft. I don't think this engine meets Euro and USA emissions standards, but it could be cleaned up.
...

Not quite. The Navara is hardly a "Frontier-lookalike". It is a essentially a Frontier (or is it not that the Frontier is a Navara?), offered with a diesel engine, the sweet YD25DDTi common-rail turbo diesel intercooler powerplant producing said power and torque. How do I know? I own one here in Indonesia. The Navara is also assembled in Barcelona for the European market, where the YD25DDTi does indeed meet Euro standards. Should I mention that the Navara gets no less than 22 miles on a gallon of diesel that sells here for US$2.27? Tell me, what am I going to want to drive when I go back home to the States?

haven

06-27-2008, 08:04 PM

Not content with Maserati and Bentley getting all the attention in the $100,000+ sedan market, Porsche is working on a swoopy four door model called the Panamera. According to Autoweek, Porsche will include at least one diesel engine option. Two Audi engines are under consideration: a V-8 with 322 hp and 560 lb-ft, and a V-12 that produces 500 hp and a 737 lb-ft!

All this means nothing to overlanding, except that we might see these engines offered in a Porsche SUV some time in the future.

Chip Haven

haven

06-30-2008, 04:59 PM

Looks like Ford is well along the path to replacing the Navistar Powerstroke 6.4L diesel in Super Duty trucks with a new 6.7L diesel designed by Ford engineers. The new engine is dubbed the "Scorpion."

Ford will continue to sell the Powerstoke engine until 2011, when the new Scorpion engine will take over.

It's possible that the 4.4L diesel V8 designed by Ford for the F150 and big SUVs will also be available in the F250 Super Duty. This could happen sooner than 2011.

In my view, very few people need the power of the diesels in 2008 pickups. The 6.4 Navistar, 6.6L Duramax and 6.7L Cummins engines all produce around 650 lb-ft of torque. That's enough power for a cement truck!

Instead, I think the auto manufacturers should offer smaller engines, and couple them to transmissions with more gear ratios.

Chip Haven

theMec

07-08-2008, 02:41 AM

In my view, very few people need the power of the diesels in 2008 pickups. The 6.4 Navistar, 6.6L Duramax and 6.7L Cummins engines all produce around 650 lb-ft of torque. That's enough power for a cement truck!

Instead, I think the auto manufacturers should offer smaller engines, and couple them to transmissions with more gear ratios.

Chip Haven

I totally agree. I'd have settled for a smaller truck truck if it had a manual trans and gave the mpgs of a 3/4 ton diesel. Hopefully that time is ahead. I just got back from Europe and I'm embarrased what we drive in the US. Over there, I'd have a nice diesel camper van setup w/ a manual trans ...

haven

07-08-2008, 09:25 PM

Road and Track magazine recently posted a test drive in the 2010 Audi Q7 with 3.0L V6 diesel engine and quattro all wheel drive.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=6&article_id=6858

Audi says the 3.0L turbo diesel produces about 400 lb-ft of torque and gets 25 mpg highway. Audi's 3.6L V6 gas engine produces 266 lb-ft and gets 17 MPG highway. No pricing was announced. The Mercedes R-Class vehicle is similar in size, and costs $45,000 with a Mercedes 3.0L V6 under the hood.

The Q7 is a big SUV, close in width and length to a Chevy Tahoe, but not as tall because of the unibody frame and independent suspension.The Q7 is built on the same platform as the VW Touareg and Porsche Cayenne. Compared to the VW and Porsche, the Audi has a stretched wheelbase, which permits third row seating.

If the 3.0L diesel is a success in the Q7, Audi will probably ship the A6 sedan with 3.0L diesel here. Audi currently sells the A6 with diesel all over the world, just not in North America.

haven

07-08-2008, 10:08 PM

Here's an updated list of automakers' plans to introduce diesel engines in light trucks and passenger cars. Please help with corrections!

Chip Haven

-------------------------------

diesel autos and light trucks
by calendar year

available today
Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD
Mercedes E320 Bluetec
Mercedes GL320 CDI
Mercedes ML320 CDI
Mercedes R320 CDI
Jeep and MBZ models now 50 state legal

later in 2008
Volkswagen Jetta and Sportwagen 2.0 I4 (August 2008)
BMW 330d (Fall 2008)
BMW X5 3.0d

early 2009
Honda Accord 2.4L I4
Volkswagen Tiguan 2.0 I4

mid 2009
Mahindra pickup, suv 2.2L I4

late 2009
Audi Q7 3.0 TDI
Ford F-150 and Expedition 4.4 V-8
Volkswagen Touareg 3.0 V6 TDI
Hyundai Veracruz 3.0L V6

2010
Cadillac CTS-D V6
Chevrolet Silverado 4.5 V-8
Dodge Ram 1500 4.2 V-6
GMC Sierra 4.5 V-8
Hummer H2 4.5 V-8 (or maybe cancel altogether)
Kia Borrego 3.0L V6
Mitsubishi Lancer 2.4 I4
Nissan Maxima 3.0L V6
Nissan Titan (from Dodge)
Nissan Versa 2.0L ?
Saturn Aura 2.0L ?
Subaru Legacy 2.0L ?
Toyota Tundra, Sequoia, Land Cruiser (4.5L V8)
Jeep Wrangler (4 cylinder? 6 cylinder?)

2011
Volvo ?
Mitsubishi Outlander 2.4 I4

haven

07-14-2008, 07:34 PM

AutoBlogGreen is reporting that the BMW 330d will have an EPA rating of about 30 mpg combined, maybe a bit higher. Not bad for a car with 425 lb-ft of torque and a zero to 60 time in the mid 6 second range. In comparison, the 335i gasoline engine produces 130 lb-ft less, and is rated about 26 mpg combined.

Let's see: 30 mpg / 26 mpg = 15% improvement in fuel economy for the six cylinder diesel.

Last week, the national average price for diesel fuel was $4.73 a gallon, and gasoline $4.11 a gallon, according to the Energy Information Administration, the US government office that tracks fuel prices.
$4.73 / $4.11 = 15% more money for a gallon of diesel.

So the cost of fuel per mile should be about the same for the diesel and gas engine vehicles.

No word yet on the price BMW plans to charge for the 330d in USA. In Europe, the diesel engine models are a couple thousand USD cheaper than the gasoline engine versions.

This Fall, the BMW X5 will receive its own version of the 3.0L diesel used in the 330d. Since the X5 is 1300 lbs heavier than the 3 series cars, the diesel's torque should make a larger improvement in fuel economy.

BMW has no plans to sell the 320d or X3 with the 2.0L 4 cylinder turbodiesel in USA. The 2.0L was named best new engine design for 2008, and is rated at almost 50 mpg in combined driving in European trim.

Octamog

07-15-2008, 12:24 AM

This Fall, the BMW X5 will receive its own version of the 3.0L diesel used in the 330d. Since the X5 is 1300 lbs heavier than the 3 series cars, the diesel's torque should make a larger improvement in fuel economy.

Chip, has this been announced in the U.S.? I was just looking for such an announcement last weekend and came up blank.

I'd be all over one of those... :jumping: ....but then it appears that new X5's are getting way over MSRP on the EBay already, so maybe in a year or two when the newness wears off a little!

Octamog

07-16-2008, 03:29 AM

Chip, has this been announced in the U.S.? I was just looking for such an announcement last weekend and came up blank.

I'd be all over one of those... :jumping: ....but then it appears that new X5's are getting way over MSRP on the EBay already, so maybe in a year or two when the newness wears off a little!

Oops... I meant the new X6 .... I'd love to have one of those with the turbo diesel!

haven

07-16-2008, 03:33 AM

CAR Magazine tested the European version of Audi's small SUV, the Q5 (about the same size as the VW Tiguan). Powered by a 2.0L turbodiesel, the result was 35 miles per US gallon in combined driving.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/Audi-Q5-20-TDI-CAR-review

Audi plans to release a hybrid version of the Q5 before a diesel. We could see similar mpg results when VW starts selling Tiguan with the 2.0L 4 cylinder diesel.

VW dealers are hoping the diesel comes sooner rather than later because the gas-powered Tiguan is a lackluster seller. At the same time, orders are coming in fast for the diesel Jetta, which is due to start delivery in August.

Ryanmb21

07-18-2008, 06:57 PM

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=129250?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..2 .*

335d

haven

07-19-2008, 04:14 AM

Edmunds inside Line is reporting that the 4.4L V8 diesel that Ford plans to offer in the F150 and Expedition will offer 15% more torque than the 5.4L gas engine, and provide a 20% improvement in fuel economy.

In 2008, the 5.4L is rated at 365 ft-lbs, so the diesel could produce 420 ft-lbs.

The 5.4L gas engine in the 2008 F150 4x4 is rated by the EPA at 13 city, 17 highway. With a 20% improvement, the diesel would score 16 city, 20 highway.

Last week, diesel fuel cost about 16% more than regular gas, according to the government agency that tracks fuel prices. So if the diesel got 20% better mileage, it would have a slight advantage over the 5.4L gas engine in dollars spent per mile.

Now we need to learn how much extra Ford plans to charge for the 4.4L diesel.

I think it's interesting that Ford already sells a vehicle with a 4.5L diesel engine, producing 440 ft-lbs of torque. It's a V6 diesel from International, installed in the Ford LCF (low cab forward) delivery truck. The V6 is a little harsh for duty in an SUV, however!

Chip Haven

TeriAnn

07-19-2008, 03:27 PM

Edmunds inside Line is reporting that the 4.4L V8 diesel that Ford plans to offer in the F150 and Expedition will offer 15% more torque than the 5.4L gas engine, and provide a 20% improvement in fuel economy.

Ford's new 4.4L diesel V8 is supposed to be a bigger version of the V8 diesel originally developed for Jaguar and Land Rover a few years back (3.6L TDV8, rated 19 MPG city, 31 MPG highway in Australian Spec Range Rover). They retained use of the engine family when they sold the UK marques. There are versions in the UK with dual turbos.

What I find interesting is that there is a V6 version of that engine with some very respectable specs on some production Land Rover's since about 2004.
2.7L TDV6, 190 hp @ 4000 RPM, 325 lbft @2000-2500 RPM (flat torque curve) 25 MPG city, 35 MPG highway (US gallons) in Australian Spec Discovery 3. Both engines are used with 6 speed gearboxes which is what LR is currently offering.

I keep wondering if that V6 is narrow enough to fit in a Series LR. There as to be wrecked Disco 3's hitting Australian junk yards.

haven

07-20-2008, 05:32 AM

The Toyota Auris is a hatchback version of the Corolla sold in Europe and Asia. Toyota already offers the Auris with a 2.0L four cylinder diesel. Recently Toyota released a 1.4L diesel, producing 140 lb-ft, for the Auris. The official fuel mileage number for the 1.4L diesel is 46 mpg in combined city/highway driving (calculated using US gallons).

This 1.4L diesel is also offered in the smaller Yaris, where it is rated at over 50 mpg.

For comparison, in USA the 2009 Corolla with 1.8L gas engine with 128 ft-lb of torque is rated at 30 mpg combined.

If Toyota can make the 1.4L and 2.0L diesels legal under European emissions rules, they should be able to meet USA standards, too. I guess that Toyota will wait to see what sort of success diesels from VW, Honda, Nissan, and Subaru achieve before offering diesels in Toyota small cars.

Chip Haven

haven

07-23-2008, 03:53 AM

Autobloggreen recently drove a Euro-spec MINI with 1.6L diesel engine. Result: 47 mpg in mostly city driving. The diesel offers 177 ft-lbs of torque, making it easy to drive in city traffic. MINI USA says it would like to offer the diesel engine here, but they want to make it 50 states legal first.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/07/22/in-the-autobloggreen-garage-2008-mini-cooper-d-w-video/

mauricio_28

07-23-2008, 11:13 AM

For me, the tastiest small diesel engine made by Toyota is the 2.2L plant that powers the RAV4, putting out 310Nm (228 ftlbs)at 2,000rpm and the 134HP.

haven

07-24-2008, 02:34 PM

The USA Internal Revenue Service has decided that the 2009 Jetta TDI qualifies for the "Advanced Lean Burn Technology Motor Vehicle" income tax credit of $1300. That means that the diesel's price premium over a similarly equipped gasoline-powered Jetta is reduced to only $700.

Using the EPA's numbers, a diesel Jetta should average about 34 mpg in combined city/highway driving. The 2.5L gasoline Jetta averages 24 mpg on regular unleaded. That means the diesel is 42% more fuel efficient.

The most recent government fuel price figures put the national average price of unleaded regular at $4.06, and #2 diesel at $4.72. That makes a gallon of diesel 16% more expensive than unleaded regular.

So the diesel Jetta will cost less per mile to drive.

Here's an example.

Assume you drive 15,000 miles a year. In the diesel, you'd use (15,000 / 34)= 441 gallons, which would cost (441 * $4.72) = $2082.

The 2.5L gasoline Jetta would use (15,000 / 24) = 625 gallons of fuel, which would cost (625 * 4.06) = $2,538.

So in this example, the Jetta diesel fuel cost wold be $456 less per year. That means it would take less than two years, driving 15,000 miles a year, to make up the $700 price premium.

Let's look at this another way. The diesel's fuel cost per mile driven is ($2082 / 15,000) = 13.8 cents per mile. The 2.5L gas engine's fuel cost per mile driven is ($2538/15,000) = 16.9 cents per mile at today's prices.

And then there's VW's assertion that the EPA got it wrong, that the Jetta diesel will return 44 mpg on the highway, and 38 mpg in city driving . So maybe the above cost per mile numbers could be understated.

Using past history as a guide, the resale value of the diesel Jetta will be considerably higher than the resale value of the gasoline model, too.

The diesel Jetta Sportwagen is looking like a good substitute for SUVs and vans, so long as you don't need to transport more than four adults.

Chip Haven

mauricio_28

07-25-2008, 06:31 AM

Yes, yes, yes...but what, if any, of these diesel engines are likely to be coupled with a proper 4WD transfer case in an "expedition"-worthy vehicle? News of a diesel engine in a sports coupe or a fancy, schmanzy BMW SUV doesn't hold much interest for me. Let's talk about which of these engines could be offered soon in the US in, say, the FJ, Xterra or a JK?

ChuckB

07-25-2008, 05:39 PM

Yes, yes, yes...but what, if any of these diesel engines are likely to be coupled with a proper 4WD transfer case in an "expedition"-worthy vehicle? In other words, which of these engines could be offered soon in the US by Toyota or Nissan in, say, the FJ or the Frontier?

I'm holding out for the diesel 200-series Land Cruiser, not that I can afford one...but I'm still hoping it will make it over here:drool:

haven

07-28-2008, 03:28 PM

The big increase in diesel fuel prices is stimulating research into engines that use cheaper fuel, but still provide the torque and economy that a diesel does.

PickupTrucks.com has an interesting article that describes one such project, a new injection technology using gasoline and ethanol fuel. The new engine has high compression and high turbo boost. To keep detonation under control, ethanol is injected directly into the cylinder to raise octane.

http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/stories/engine-tech/ethanol-boost/can-ethanol-boost-engines-replace-diesels-1.html

The team developing the engine thinks a 5.0L ethanol injection engine would produce 700 lb-ft of torque, and cost about $1500 more than a conventional gasoline engine. A diesel with the same torque has a $6000 to $7000 premium, and burns more expensive fuel. The ethanol injection engine is projected to have the same fuel economy as a diesel.

This engine design is estimated to use less than 1 gallon of ethanol for every 10 gallons of gasoline.

One issue with this approach is that diesels provide lots of torque at low engine RPM. The turbo gas engine would probably need to run at higher RPM to provide the same torque.

Let's see. Scaling the engine downwards, a 2.5L four cylinder turbo ethanol injection engine would produce around 350 lb-ft of torque, and get 25% better fuel mileage than a conventional gasoline engine. This sounds like a winning combination in a light pickup or SUV.

Chip Haven

haven

08-01-2008, 03:29 PM

Edmunds Inside Line is reporting that Mercedes plans to introduce their new 2.2L four cylinder turbodiesel to USA, probably in 2010 models. Here's the report
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=130066

The 2.2L diesel will first appear in the C-class small sedan and the GLK small SUV. The engine produces about 300 ft-lbs of torque, which should be plenty when mated with a 6 or 7 speed transmission. The Bluetec-equipped engine can deliver mileage in the high 30 mpg range.

So it appears that there should be four small SUVs with diesel engines available for sale in 2010: the Mercedes Benz GLK, the BMW X3, the VW Tiguan, and the Subaru Forester. It's also possible that Audi will sell a diesel version of the Q5, probably with a 3.0L V6 diesel.

Redline

08-01-2008, 09:32 PM

I'm looking forward to and happy about Mercedes' diesel introductions, but I'm skeptical about their quality. If they could get their SUVs where their cars used to be I would buy one of their diesel offerings today. I think a Japanese crossover SUV will get my dollars if/when they are offered if we decide to replace our Golf TDI.

elcoyote

08-02-2008, 05:58 PM

As reported by Reuters in IndustryWeek magazine Aug 2008:

"Toyota Motor Corp will build a diesel plant in Thailand for $US162 million to meet rising demand for its IMV vehicle series. The company plans to churn out 150,000 units a year at the facility which will be built on the site of an existing engine factory 43 miles south of Bangkok. IMVs, which stands for Innovative Multipurpose Vehicles, consists of pickup trucks, a line of SUVs and a minivan. Once production begins, the plant's output will raise Toyota's annual diesel engine output capacity to 350,000 units in 2010 and create about 700 jobs."

mauricio_28

08-09-2008, 12:26 PM

My TDI D40 Nissan Navara is assembled in Thailand...Here in Indonesia we already have two IMV vehicles, the Kijang Innova and the Fortuner, with diesel engines. The engines on those vehicles, however, are pretty anemic...

JeepinBear

08-18-2008, 02:38 PM

2010
Toyota Tundra, Sequoia, Land Cruiser (4.5L V8)

Does anyone have any additional detail on when the Landcrusier 200 series will be offered in the US with the diesel engine?

haven

08-18-2008, 04:00 PM

No additional details. The 4.5L V8 diesel is already available for purchase in markets around the world, so there's no problem making it fit in the USA version of the LC.

What will need to be changed is the emissions control system. The diesel emissions standards in Europe will tighten up in Fall of 2009, making European models very similar to USA models in emissions. I think this is why Toyota and other manufacturers are waiting until the 2010 model year to introduce new diesel models.

Incidentally, the German magazine "Auto Motor und Sport" tested the Land Cruiser with V8 diesel in March. The results were mixed. The magazine reported poor assembly quality, poor braking performance, and much worse fuel mileage than promised by government mpg ratings.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/03/03/toyota-land-cruiser-diesel-does-poorly-in-german-road-test/

Chip Haven

haven

08-20-2008, 11:23 PM

A few months back, Navistar reached an understanding to purchase GM's medium truck division. This made sense for Navistar, because Ford has plans to stop using the Navistar V8 diesel in their medium duty trucks in a couple of years. Navistar planned maintain production levels at its International engine plant by substituting the International engine for the GM/Isuzu Duramax diesel engines used in GMs medium duty line.

Now Autoweek is reporting that the deal has been scrapped. Navistar must have decided that GM's truck division is worth less today than the price agreed on six months ago. GM really needs the cash, so maybe the two parties will re-negotiate.

Chip Haven

haven

08-20-2008, 11:26 PM

Jettas with diesel engine are available for sale now at VW dealers in USA. Most of the initial shipment of diesels is already sold.

Hopefully VW will speed up the introduction of the diesel-powered Tiguan SUV. I saw a gas engine Tiguan on the road the other day, and it looked good.

Chip Haven

haven

08-22-2008, 03:30 AM

Somebody with a lot of time on their hands
modified an 1982 Olds into a replica
of the classic Buick GNX, that turbocharged
V6 that was GM's quickest car for a couple of
years in the 1980s. Then they stuffed a early
2000s 6.6L Duramax diesel under the hood.

The result is pretty convincing. The diesel
is fast (estimated sub-13 second quarter mile)
and still very frugal (28mpg in everyday driving).

Here's the story
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/0711dp_1982_buick_regal/index.html

So what does this have to do with expedition
vehicles? Nothing other than to point out that
in a lighter weight vehicle the 6.6L diesel can
provide impressive performance. The GM pickups
of the 1970s and 80s are everywhere, the parts
are readily available, and the 6.6L diesel will bolt
in with a minimum of mods. The older 6.6L diesel
is available for $4500 to $6000 as a complete
engine.

Chip Haven

Ryanmb21

08-30-2008, 07:37 PM

haven

08-30-2008, 09:40 PM

Here are a few facts from the Edmunds Inside Line test cited by Ryanmb21 above.

They drove the European version of the 2009 BMW 3 series sedan with its new 3.0L 6 cylinder diesel engine. The euro engine produces 245 hp and 383 lb-ft, and has a 5400 rpm redline! BMW claims the new 330d is quicker to 60 mpg than the 330i gas model.

The 330d returns 41 mpg in the European combined fuel mileage test. The test vehicles were built to European standards, but the new diesel meets 50-state EPA standards as well.

The BMW diesel we'll see in USA in 2009 is different. It's the same 3.0L six, but it has twin turbos, boosting hp to 265 and torque to 425. So it should be even faster than the vehicle tested by Inside Line!

BMW plans to introduce this diesel engine in the North American 3 series sedans and X5 SUV in late 2008. It seems likely that a diesel 5 series sedan would follow in 2009.

Performance of the X5 35d should be great. The 35d produces 50 lb ft more than the 2008 4.8L V8 gas engine in the X5. The 35d should see combined mpg ratings in the low 20's, a big step up from the 15 mpg of the V8 gas engine.

The gas engine requires premium fuel, so the difference in price to fill up with diesel will be small, while the range per tank will be significantly improved.

Chip Haven

haven

09-02-2008, 04:41 PM

An alternative to diesel

Ford is partnering with Ethanol Boosting Systems, LLC of Cambridge, Mass. (EBS) to develop a gas engine with ethanol-injection system. EBS is claiming that a 5.0L gas V8 can produce 500 hp and 700 lb-ft if equipped with turbos and ethanol injection. This is more HP and torque than produced by today's 6.4L Powerstroke diesel.

EBS principals include a couple of MIT scientists and a former Ford engineer. This is probably how they talked Ford into trying ethanol injection in a couple of its Eco-Boost turbo gas engines to evaluate the technology.

Ethanol has very high octane, so it can control detonation in a gas engine that has high compression and turbocharging. (Most of today's gas turbos run relatively low compression to keep from blowing up!)

The cost of adding ethanol injection to a gas engine is estimated at about $1400. A diesel with similar performance costs at least $5000 more than a conventional gas engine, and burns a more expensive fuel. Part of the diesel cost is the extra emissions control equipment. The ethanol injection engine can use the same emissions controls as a conventional gas engine.
The ethanol injection engine uses about 1 gallon of ethanol to every 10 gallons of gasoline.

EBS claims to have technology that will boost the performance of flex-fuel vehicles, too. E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline) is becoming more common, and it's cheaper than 100% gas. But it doesn't perform as well as 100% gas. EBS technology would remove the performance penalty.

Interesting ideas for challenging times. I'd like a 2.5L four cylinder ethanol injected engine that produces 350 lb ft of torque, please!

Chip Haven

Redline

09-02-2008, 08:08 PM

Me Too !!!:luxhello:

snip..

Interesting ideas for challenging times. I'd like a 2.5L four cylinder ethanol injected engine that produces 350 lb ft of torque, please!

Chip Haven

haven

09-05-2008, 08:33 PM

Subaru has released information about the diesel engine
available in the Euro version of the 2009 Forester. The
2.0D flat four cylinder turbodiesel will produce 147 hp and
258 lb-ft of torque.

Those power numbers compare well with the 2.5L gasoline
engine, which produces about 170 lb ft, and the turbo gas
engine in the XT models, rated at 224 lb-ft. EPA fuel economy
figures for these engines is in the low to mid 20 mpg range.

In the Forester, the diesel produces 44.8 mpg in the European
version of mpg tests. That's somewhat better than the
VW 2.0 diesel in the VW Tiguan.

In January, Subaru announced plans to make the 2.0L diesel
available in models for North America in the 2010 model year.

Chip Haven

mauricio_28

09-06-2008, 06:44 AM

All these VW, BMW, Mercedes, etc. engines are indeed interesting. Nevertheless, again, for the purpose of mid-size "expedition", off-road 4WD vehicles, I still think that the benchmark, the engine to beat is the Nissan's 2.5L powerplant that puts out 402Nm (297 ft.lb.) and 174HP while returning 24mpg on a two-ton vehicle. That engine has now been around, everywhere but North America, for three years.

haven

09-11-2008, 09:39 PM

The folks at Pickuptrucks.com noticed a sticker on the A/C unit in a 2009 Dodge Ram 1500 pickup. The sticker said the A/C unit was OK to use with the 5.0L V8 diesel engine! This is the first acknowledgement from Dodge that a new Cummins engine is on the way.

http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/news/chrysler/future/is-2010-dodge-ram-1500-diesel-5-0-liters.html

The 6.7L Cummins diesel produces 650 lb-ft, so the new 5.0L V8 diesel should produce around 480 lb-ft. The 5.7L Hemi gasoline engine produces only 410 lb-ft when installed in the Ram 1500.

The 5.0L V8 diesel would be a great fit in the Dodge Powerwagon, which is built on a Ram 2500 series platform. 480 lb-ft would be more than enough power when run through a transfer case with low range.

The 5.7L gas engine fits in the Dodge Durango SUV. I wonder if Dodge is planning to offer the Cummins V8 diesel in the Durango as well as the Ram.

Now all we need is the rumored 4.2L V6 diesel from Cummins. That would be a great engine for the Grand Cherokee, but maybe too heavy for the Wrangler.

Chip Haven

ChuckB

09-12-2008, 01:19 AM

Now all we need is the rumored 4.2L V6 diesel from Cummins. That would be a great engine for the Grand Cherokee, but maybe too heavy for the Wrangler.

Chip Haven

I'd be in the market for a 4-door JK diesel :bowdown:

Redline

09-12-2008, 04:08 AM

I welcome all these new Chrysler/Dodge Diesels! I hope the 4.2L Cummins isn't too heavy for the Wrangler and they actually put one into production. But...

In the current October issue of Diesel Power magazine on page 32 they report some diesel Jeep gossip:

In 2010 the Mercedes CRD in the Grand Cherokee will be replaced with the new 4.2L V6 Cummins...

and

"Rumors continue to flare up about the Wrangler nabbing a four-cylinder diesel, also potentially in 2010, as does word on the street about a Wrangler-Unlimited-based Jeep pickup."

I would like to buy either of these with the Rubicon package!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

haven

09-17-2008, 09:31 PM

Here's a list of new diesel powered vehicles we'll see in the 2010 or 2011 models years, as reported by Winding Road magazine

Acura TSX, RDX......2.2L 4..... 258 lb-ft......41 mpg highway
Audi A4......3.0L V6.....406 lb ft......43 mpg highway
Chamco pickup.....small diesel ??
Dodge 1500......5.0L V8......500 ft-lb...... ?? mpg
Ford F150......4.4L V8......430 ft-lb...... ?? mpg
Mahindra pickup......2.2L 4......300 lb ft.......35 mpg?
Mercedes GLK.....3.0L V6.....398 ft-lb.....32 mpg
Nissan Maxima......3.0L V6...... ?? ...... ??
Porsche Cayenne......3.0L V6......406 ft-lb...... 25 mpg?
Subaru Forester, Outback......2.0L 4..... ??..... ??
Toyota Tundra, Sequoia.....4.5L V8.....479 ft-lb.....23 mpg
VW Touareg2.....3.0L V6.....406 ft-lb.....25 mpg

Read the whole story here:
http://windingroad.nextautos.com/windingroad/200811web/

Rallyroo

09-18-2008, 12:10 AM

Here's a list of new diesel powered vehicles we'll see in the 2010 or 2011 models years, as reported by Winding Road magazine

Read the whole story here:
http://windingroad.nextautos.com/windingroad/200811web/

Interesting read.

Redline

09-18-2008, 03:47 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXA22Q0qXNM

Comments...

ujoint

09-18-2008, 04:21 AM

I'm a firm believer that the Germans are the top dogs in the automotive industry, so I tend to trust their judgment. I think the 4500.00 that Lutz stated is a little exaggerated, especially in a small car......... I just read an article about the MB diesels hitting the market as we speak, and they're being offered at a pretty reasonable price increase.

After reading the winding road article, the MB diesels cost $1000 more than the gas, and VW's are about $800!!!! I've been considering a new car purchase, and I would love to be able to choose from some small diesels.

Redline

09-18-2008, 05:05 AM

Good points.

We have a VW Golf TDI. Other than a few gremlins, we really like it.

Maybe Lutz is giving us a the story of what THEY (G.M./Americans) think they will and won't be able to do with diesels in light-trucks.

I was at my local Ford dealer for parts last week, and looked at the prices on new 6.4 Power Strokes on the back lot. I’m not excited about (ever?) buying another big-diesel pickup. MSRP was about 47-54,000 for the nicely appointed ones, about 9k of that was the retail price for the 6.4L diesel engine and auto tranny. Those numbers make my '06 Runner look inexpensive. I better keep the big, old Power Stoke I have for when I need a big truck.

I'm a firm believer that the Germans are the top dogs in the automotive industry, so I tend to trust their judgment. I think the 4500.00 that Lutz stated is a little exaggerated, especially in a small car......... I just read an article about the MB diesels hitting the market as we speak, and they're being offered at a pretty reasonable price increase.

After reading the winding road article, the MB diesels cost $1000 more than the gas, and VW's are about $800!!!! I've been considering a new car purchase, and I would love to be able to choose from some small diesels.

haven

09-19-2008, 01:27 AM

Volkswagen gave Autoblog a look at its plans to introduce additional diesel-powered models.

today: Jetta and Jetta Sportwagen--2.0L diesel
mid February 2009: Touareg2 -- 3.0L diesel
Fall 2009 (as 2010 model): Rabbit with 2.0L diesel shared with Jetta

The bad news is that the Tiguan SUV needs to add a tank to hold urea solution to meet emissions regulations,
and there is no space for it in the current design. So it may be a while before we see the Tiguan diesel sold in USA.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/18/vw-rabbit-tdi-confirmed-for-next-fall-no-diesel-tiguan/

Mav

09-19-2008, 02:32 AM

Gurkha

09-19-2008, 06:00 AM

I resisted getting a diesel powered 4WD for a long time due to the problems associated with their poor power performance but that all changed with the introduction of the Common Rail engines.

I now own a Toyota Landcruiser Prado 120 series and have owned it since Nov 07. This engine is a little powerhouse, gone are the days of not overtaking unless there is no oncoming traffic for about 5 km's. :xxrotflma

I have a 180 litre fuel tank which gives me a cruising range of around 2000 km when driven at 100 km/hr or if driven harder at 120km/hr I can still get around 1750 km out of a tank.

Here is my rig:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1272772/Prado3a.JPG

The HINO built 4L diesel engines used in Toyota TLC have enough torque and hp to pass most gassers in its class as well as being more reliable and longer lasting than the TLC gasser. Diesels are workhorses, off road they are indispensible due to their nature of low end torque. Having owned both gasser and diesel off roaders, my vote would always be for diesel, be it TLC or G Wagen.

haven

09-19-2008, 10:54 PM

As discussed here earlier, GM is looking for a buyer for its medium truck division. The agreement with Navistar fell through. Now the best candidate is Isuzu. GM already sells several Isuzu medium trucks as GM W-series and T-series, and GM uses Isuzu engines in the larger Kodiak trucks, too. Most of the Isuzu trucks are cab forward designs, but they make a conventional cab model, too.

If Isuzu does take this division off GM's hands, I hope they will either keep the Kodiak 5500 4x4, or even better, replace it with Isuzu's FTS 550 and 800 4x4 models.

mauricio_28

09-20-2008, 11:44 AM

haven

09-22-2008, 04:59 PM

Pickuptrucks.com is reporting that Toyota has put on hold plans to make the 4.5L V8 diesel available in the Tundra. The reasons given are
-- the high price of diesel fuel is discouraging buyers from looking at diesel trucks
-- it's proving difficult (read: expensive) to meet the USA truck emissions standards
-- the gas engine Tundra is suffering a sales decline

I think Toyota will just sit back and watch how the marketplace reacts to the Dodge Ram 1500 with 5.0L V8 diesel and the Ford F150 with 4.4L V8 diesel.

I think all the manufacturers are missing a great opportunity to sell smaller pickups and utility trucks with a 4 cylinder diesel. The reason may be that Ford, Chevrolet, and Dodge don't want to affect the sales of their full-size trucks. Toyota, on the other hand, already sells more Tacomas than Tundras. 4 cylinder diesel would be a perfect fit in the Tacoma.

Diesel fuel is a lot cheaper today than only a month ago. According to the US government web page that tracks fuel prices, the national average for a gallon of diesel fuel declined to $4.02 last week. Regular gas rose to a national average of $3.83 due to effects of recent hurricanes.

$4.02/$3.83 = 1.05.

This means that diesel fuel is selling at a premium of only 5%. Diesels typically get a minimum of 15% better fuel mileage, so you'd save money with each fill-up. Coupled with the potential for longer service life and higher resale value, a small diesel truck looks like a winning proposition.

Chip Haven

haven

09-30-2008, 09:01 PM

John and Helen Taylor are an Australian couple with a history of squeezing the most out of a liter of fuel. VW of America flew them stateside and handed them the keys to a new Jetta TDI 2.0L diesel. 9,400 miles later, the Taylors had visited all 48 states, and posted a result of 58.82 mpg along the way. That's a new record for a street-legal vehicle in USA.

While the Taylors used lots of tricks to achieve this small fuel consumption figure, they did drive within 5 miles per hour of the posted speed limit during the trip And the Jetta remained stock, no skinny tires, no extra aerodynamic aids.

Previously, the Taylors drove a stock Peugeot 308 XS HDi 1.6L diesel around the perimeter of Australia. They covered 9000 miles and averaged 75 mpg. If car companies in USA would offer smaller diesel engines here, we could see even higher mpg results.

Chip Haven

haven

10-02-2008, 05:07 PM

At the Paris auto show, Audi is showing an A4 diesel that shows what VW might do in future diesel models. The A4 has the corporate 2.0L turbo diesel, tuned to produce 210 ft-lb of torque (down from 236 ft-lb). The show car has electronics that shut the engine off when the vehicle is not moving. A second battery is added to provide power to accessories like radio and A/C fan that would need to keep running when the engine is shut off temporarily. Regenerative braking is added to keep the second battery charged up. The power steering pump is replaced by an electric type. The rear brakes are activated electrically as well.

Result: 59 miles per US gallon in the Euro version of the combined driving test. The current European 2.0L TDI is rated at about 40 miles per US gallon in combined driving, so this is a big improvement.

Chip Haven

haven

10-02-2008, 05:19 PM

Edmunds Inside Line is reporting that the BMW X1 small SUV concept shown at the Paris Auto Show is definitely coming to the North American market. One of engines BMW plans to make available is the four cylinder 2.0L twin-turbo diesel. In European trim, this engine produces 295 ft-lb of torque.

The X1 is based on the new BMW 1 Series platform. The 123d is available with the 2.0L twin turbo diesel in Europe today, where it returns about 42 mpg on the Euro combined driving test.

Chip Haven

michaelgroves

10-02-2008, 06:57 PM

Here's a list of new diesel powered vehicles we'll see in the 2010 or 2011 models years, as reported by Winding Road magazine

Acura TSX, RDX......2.2L 4..... 258 lb-ft......41 mpg highway
Audi A4......3.0L V6.....406 lb ft......43 mpg highway
Chamco pickup.....small diesel ??
Dodge 1500......5.0L V8......500 ft-lb...... ?? mpg
Ford F150......4.4L V8......430 ft-lb...... ?? mpg
Mahindra pickup......2.2L 4......300 lb ft.......35 mpg?
Mercedes GLK.....3.0L V6.....398 ft-lb.....32 mpg
Nissan Maxima......3.0L V6...... ?? ...... ??
Porsche Cayenne......3.0L V6......406 ft-lb...... 25 mpg?
Subaru Forester, Outback......2.0L 4..... ??..... ??
Toyota Tundra, Sequoia.....4.5L V8.....479 ft-lb.....23 mpg
VW Touareg2.....3.0L V6.....406 ft-lb.....25 mpg

It's the power figure that makes/breaks a diesel's performance, though. Torque can be pretty much taken for granted (and also is only really meaningful when it's seen as a curve, else gearing is a perfect substitute).

haven

10-06-2008, 03:12 AM

The Jetta diesel is sold out for 2008.

VW made 1300 Jetta diesel powered cars available
for calendar 2008. The cars are now all spoken for.
The manufacturer is now planning to increase the
allotment of diesels for USA. They will make a diesel
version of the new Rabbit available when the new
model is introduced next year.

Chip Haven

haven

10-08-2008, 01:47 PM

Audi is sponsoring a coast-to-coast drive as a way to showcase the diesel-powered versions of its vehicles. The vehicles include
-- Q7, a large SUV with three rows of seats, powered by a 3.0L V6 diesel
-- Q5, Audi's version of the VW Touareg, 3.0L V6 diesel
-- A4 sedan, same V6 diesel
-- A3 four door station wagon, 2.0L diesel, also used in VW Jetta

A fleet 23 vehicles will be used. Drivers are a collection of international auto journalists. The 4600 mile route will take six days of mostly freeway driving.

After two days, the fuel economy numbers are impressive:

Q7 29 to 31 mpg
Q5 32 to 38 mpg
A4 36 to 41 mpg
A3 43 to 46 mpg

At this point, Audi has announced plans to sell only the Q7 with diesel engine in USA. VW is selling the 2.0L diesel in the Jetta, and has plans to offer the 3.0L V6 in the Touareg 2.

Chip Haven

4Rescue

10-08-2008, 06:35 PM

It's the power figure that makes/breaks a diesel's performance, though. Torque can be pretty much taken for granted (and also is only really meaningful when it's seen as a curve, else gearing is a perfect substitute).How do you figure??? An engines torque numbers and curve (as you rightly stated) are directly responsible for they're fuel economy over a broad spectrum of use... Much more so than horsepower. Maybe I mis understood your statement though.

What I find so lame about the Diesel market here in the US is how so many loser contractors/construction workers feel they NEED some HUGE truck even though it's lifted 16 inches and never get's used to haul stuff like it was intended (nor could you load it or would it be able to). Whereas most of the rest of the world makes a Toyota 70 Series Ute do the same job without comlpaint. So in the US there's a percieved lack of intrest in smaller diesel powered trucks. I for one want a D4d or 1kzt powerd truck. Diesel is the way of the future plain and simple.

Cheers

Dave

haven

10-08-2008, 09:00 PM

"so many contractors/construction workers feel they NEED some HUGE truck"

It's the "my dog is bigger than your dog" imperative. High fuel prices
have put a serious dent in this market. Pickups with 10 inch lift kits
are common on the used car lots in my area.

I'm still waiting for a decent small pickup with diesel engine. The Toyota
and Nissan pickups sold in other markets would be perfect. I'm still hoping that
Mahindra, Tata and the Chinese trucks make it here some day.

I will be interested to see what customizers are showing at SEMA
in a few weeks.

Chip Haven

cruiser guy

10-08-2008, 10:23 PM

I'm still waiting for a decent small pickup with diesel engine. The Toyota
and Nissan pickups sold in other markets would be perfect. I'm still hoping that
Mahindra, Tata and the Chinese trucks make it here some day.

They did have the Nissan and Toyota small diesels sold stateside and in Canada in the early/mid '80's. They were non-turbo generally and did not sell well (American's want power and those trucks did not have power!). I had an '83 Toyota diesel pickup in Canada and the worst decision I made was to sell it when the box was rusty. I should have just put on a newer box and kept going. We have an '81 or so Nissan diesel pickup here in Guatemala that was originally from Texas.

As for the Chinese or other trucks, I'm not so sure I'd be eager to buy one of those. Reliability of the one we have at school here in Guatemala is less than impressive. maybe in a couple of years they'll have the reliability issues sorted out but for now...

haven

10-13-2008, 03:28 PM

Toyota confirmed again that their plans to put a diesel into the Tundra are now on hold indefinitely. Last January, Toyota announced that they would put the 4.5L V8 turbodiesel in the Tundra. This engine is used in the Land Cruiser everywhere except North America. But then diesel fuel prices went through the roof, and big truck sales all but ceased. Tundra sales were down 60.7 percent in September 08. So Toyota won't be adding a new engine to the Tundra lineup. However, if the new Ford F150 and Dodge 1500 diesels are successful, Toyota will re-visit their decision.

It's unclear if the North American Land Cruiser will be available with the V8 diesel. Land Cruiser competitors Audi (Q7) and Mercedes (GL320 cdi) have diesel powered models for sale in USA. These models post significantly better fuel mileage figures than their gas engine counterparts.

For example, in the Audi Mileage Marathon, teams of journalists driving coast to coast in the Q7 with V6 diesel are averaging around 30 mpg. The Q7 with V8 gas engine with about the same torque gets about 18 mpg on premium fuel.

So diesel fuel is still the most economical choice for a big SUV.

Chip Haven

haven

10-16-2008, 02:09 AM

Now Ford is saying "maybe we will, maybe we won't" about their 4.5L V8 diesel engine. The diesel provides about 20% more mpg than the 5.4L V8 gas engine, and offers comparable torque. The problem lies in the fact that diesel fuel costs about 20% more than regular gas. So the miles per fuel dollar figure for the two engines is about the same. Add the fact that the 4.5L diesel will cost more to purchase, and you've got an engine that might not find many buyers.

Ford is more sanguine about their new EcoBoost 4 and 6 cylinder gas engines, which use direct injection and turbocharging to produce power similar to today's gas V8. The EcoBoost engines are likely to cost only slightly more than today's gas engines.

Ford, Chevy and Dodge have a problem that is entirely of their own making. By increasing the size of the "standard" pickup (e.g., F150) over the years, they have created a vehicle that is larger and heavier than it needs to be for its primary functions.

What's needed is a new design that is smaller, lighter and more aerodynamic. Let the industrial users who need extra towing and carrying capacity buy the large, heavy duty pickup. The rest of us can do fine with a more fuel efficient mid-size model.

Chip Haven

haven

10-17-2008, 03:23 PM

VW of America announced that they will build the next generation of Passat in a new plant in Chattanooga, Tennessee. The new model should begin production in 2011.

The vehicle design will be for North America only, which may mean it could suffer from the "longer, wider, heavier" syndrome displayed by Honda in the difference between Euro and USA versions of the Accord. There's a chance that VW will give this vehicle a new name since it will be quite different from the Euro model.

A diesel engine will be optional in the new Passat. The European Passat uses the 2.0L turbodiesel, the same engine as the USA Jetta. But VW may choose to use the 3.0L V6 turbodiesel instead.

The V6 diesel produces around 360 ft-lb of torque, up from 250 ft-lb in the 2.0L four cylinder diesel. For reference, VW's 3.6L V6 gas engine makes about 260 ft-lb.

The 3.0L V6 diesel is the engine VW will use in the new Touareg 2 SUV. Audi is using the same 3.0L V6 diesel in the A4 sedan and the Q5 SUV. So the V6 diesel will be an important engine for VW in North America.

In the recent coast-to-coast Audi Mileage Marathon, A4s and Q5s with V6 diesel consistently achieved 35 mpg or better in mostly highway driving. The smaller A3, with the 2.0L diesel, is recording 40+ mpg.

Chip Haven

haven

10-21-2008, 04:06 PM

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=13252

Greenfuel Technologies is a USA company that is looking into ways to use algae (aquatic plants) to produce biodiesel. It's possible to extract lots of oil from particular strains of algae. The oil can be used as diesel fuel without much additional processing.

While other companies are experimenting with algae for biodiesel production, Greenfuel is ready to start commercial production. Greenfuel has a $92 million contract with Aurantia, a Spanish alternative energy company, to build a 250 acre/100 hectacre algae farm. The highly automated farm is expected to be completed in 2011.

Once the oil is extracted, the algae biomass can be used in the production of other useful products. Algae can be used as food for livestock, as fertilizer, and to produce a number of industrial chemicals.

One environmentally friendly angle to algae production is that algae, like all green plants, absorbs CO2 during photosynthesis. Commercial algae farms can use waste CO2 from power plants or industrial production facilities as food for the algae. Most other biofuel projects generate more CO2 than they use, but algae farming captures CO2 that would otherwise go into the atmosphere or require expensive pollution control equipment to remove.

Different strains of algae produce varying yields of oil, carbohydrates and proteins. If you want to optimize biodiesel production, choose an algae that produces the most oil. If you want to produce ethanol, choose one that produces more carbohydrates.

However, ethanol production requires additional inputs of energy to process and distill the carbohydrates. That's the beauty of algae for biodiesel -- the oil is relatively cheap and easy to extract. However, algae requires large capital investment (land, growing facilities, access to water and feedstocks of fertilizer and CO2, etc) to get started.

Although no algae growing facility has yet achieved it, an acre of land growing algae is estimated to be able to produce about 5000 gallons of biodiesel per year. This is as much as 30 times more fuel per acre than other crop-based sources of biodiesel.

Algae is worth watching as an alternative source of energy.

Chip Haven

haven

10-22-2008, 03:56 AM

GM has reiterated that its new 4.5L turbodiesel V8 will produce 300+ hp and 500+ lb-ft of torque. The new diesel will be 25% more fuel efficient than the 5.3L V8 gas engine in the Silverado pickup, and will fit in the same space that the gas V8 does today.

Unlike Ford and Toyota, GM continues to say they will offer the new diesel engine in 2009 model pickups. Dodge is expected to offer a 5.0L V8 diesel in 2010. Let's hope this includes the Power Wagon. Logically, full-size SUVs would be the next recipients of the new diesel engines.

Now we just have to hope that GM and Dodge won't charge a huge premium for the new V8 diesels, and that diesel fuel prices will stay close to regular gas.

Chip Haven

charlieaarons

10-22-2008, 04:42 AM

Gurkha

10-22-2008, 04:54 AM

Actually the Mercedes OM611 with 141bhp makes a superb plaform for a small diesel off roader on lines of JEEP etc.

Dmarchand

10-23-2008, 02:37 PM

Diesel BMW 3 series is coming. nearly 425ft lb of torque from a 3.0 liter with 265 hp.

http://www.boston.com/cars/car_reviews/articles/2008/10/18/bmw_unveils_50_state_legal_diesel_and_fixes_idrive/

Looks pretty exciting. 600 miles per tank.

lowenbrau

10-23-2008, 06:53 PM

The Big 3 are still hung up on a HP/torque war. How about some vehicles with half a 6.6L Duramax (3.3L 4cyl), like a SUV, or half a 4.5L (2.25L 4cyl, 150hp, 250 ft-lb) in a smallish car or crossover for some really impressive mpg figures? Does someone really need 300hp/500 ft-lb in a 1/2 ton pickup or SUV?
Will they ever catch on? Will we ever see a collection of small diesels like in Europe?

Charlie

PS: The Sprinter van is the right idea: full sized vehicle, 3.2L diesel with high specific output. Built of course by guess who.

I totally agree. An F150, 1500 Silverado, Ram 1500, Titan or Tundra with a 200 HP/350 ft lbs diesel would serve me just fine. It would easily tow a trail rig on a trailer. and should get reasonable mileage when empty. I always thought Dodge should have put the 4BT Cummins in the Dakota. It would have fit that scale of vehicle nicely. In South America, they sell the Ford Super Duty F250 with a common rail version of the Cummins 4BT. That would be a fabulous truck which I'd buy in a heartbeat over the 6.4l Powersmoke.

I was skeptical of the newest version of the Sprinter when they swapped their tried and true 2.7l inline 5 cyl for the v6 but one of my contractors bought one and he let me test drive it and it seems like a fine powerplant. It pushes that big breadbox into a headwind with a ton of cargo in the back, no problemo. I'd be really interested to see it make its way into the Wrangler.

racewave

10-23-2008, 10:02 PM

As this is an expedition website, has anybody decided how to run any of these newer diesels south of the US border and beyond given the lack of ULSD in these areas?

Rallyroo

10-23-2008, 10:09 PM

As this is an expedition website, has anybody decided how to run any of these newer diesels south of the US border and beyond given the lack of ULSD in these areas?

Alaska has that problem too.

Photo by Twolost
http://terrafirma.smugmug.com/photos/350914941_L2ek9-M.jpg

racewave

10-24-2008, 11:25 AM

At this point in time it would seem that any vehicle needing ULSD fuel would be very limited as an expedition vehicle unless illegal and warranty voiding modifications are made.

cruiser guy

10-24-2008, 05:34 PM

At this point in time it would seem that any vehicle needing ULSD fuel would be very limited as an expedition vehicle unless illegal and warranty voiding modifications are made.

I tend to think that the fuel standards south of the US will match with the US in time. The same thing was happening with unleaded fuel back in the late '70's and early '80's. Now you CANNOT buy leaded fuel anywhere that I know of (Canada, USA, Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Belize), and you have not been able to for years.

haven

10-28-2008, 01:14 PM

Autobloggreen had a chance to spend a couple of days driving a Euro-spec Audi A5 with 3.0L turbodiesel. This combination is rated at 35.6 mpg (U.S.) combined on the EU test cycle, and averaged 32.5 mpg during our time with the car. Not bad for a car that can get to 60 mph in less than 6 seconds.

This is the engine that VW will import in the Touareg 2, and Audi will offer in the Q5 and Q7 SUVs.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/10/27/in-the-autobloggreen-garage-audi-a5-3-0-tdi-6mt/

haven

10-31-2008, 02:22 PM

In a hyper-mileage contest in South Africa, the Peugeot 308 HDI (a 4 door vehicle about the size of a Honda Civic) recorded 69 mpg. The car was a standard 1.6-liter 110 hp model with an automatic gearbox and diesel particulate filter.

A small panel van with a similar diesel engine would be a practical work vehicle for lots of companies. Ford is starting to import a European model called the Transit Connect that would work great with a small diesel. In Europe, Ford sells this van with a 1.8L diesel that gets 30 mpg city. But in North America, Ford is only planning to sell the Transit Connect with a 2.0L gas engine that's rated at 19 mpg city.

http://www.fordvehicles.com/transitconnect/

I'm hoping that Ford is just delaying the small diesel until emissions controls are worked out.

haven

11-05-2008, 12:24 AM

Autoblog reports that Korean auto giant Hyundai has developed
two new four cylinder diesel engines, in 2.0L and 2.2L capacity.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/11/04/hyundai-develops-high-performance-diesel/

Hyundai is not planning to import these engines to USA, at least
not until the Euro diesel emissions rules come closer to those
already in effect here.

The 2.2L engine is rated at 320 ft-lb of torque. This makes Mahindra's
claim of 300 ft-lb from their 2.2L truck diesel seem a little more
attainable.

Autoblog also reports that Mazda has two new light diesels for European
models. There's a 2.0L with 220 ft-lb and a 2.2L with 295 ft-lb.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/11/06/mazda-introduces-new-2-2l-mzr-cd-diesel-in-european-6/

Chip Haven

haven

11-13-2008, 11:32 PM

The diesel engined BMW X5 xDrive 35d has been officially announced, and delivery will start shortly.

It's powered by a 3.0L inline six cylinder diesel with dual turbos, producing 265 hp and 425 lb-ft, while returning an EPA rating of 19 mpg city, 26 mpg highway. MSRP is $52,025. The same engine is available in the 3 series sedan, where it's rated at 35 mpg highway.

For comparison, the 3.0L 6 cylinder gasoline engine standard in the X5 runs on premium unleaded, produces 260 hp and 225 ft-lb, and is EPA-rated at 15/21 mpg. MSRP is $47, 100.

The optional 4.8L V8 offers 350 hp and 350 ft-lb. MPG is 14/19 and MSRP is $55,800 before any optional equipment is added.

These numbers make the diesel engine a big performance bargain. The 35d produces 21% more torque than the gas V8, gets 36% better fuel mileage, yet costs $3700 less. Even though diesel costs 20% more than premium gas, the dollar per mile driven cost is lower with diesel.

Like the six cylinder diesel powerplants from Mercedes and VW, the BMW 35d uses urea injection to reduce pollutants. The urea tank holds 5 gallons, enough for about 15,000 miles of driving.

The X5 is a mid-size SUV, with 102 cu ft interior volume for passengers and cargo. Competitors for the X5 xDrive 35d include the Mercedes ML320 Bluetec, VW Touareg 2, Audi A5, and the Jeep Grand Cherokee, all of which are similar in size and available with diesel engines.

Chip Haven

ignorant

11-14-2008, 07:04 PM

I don't know if this is already posted, but:

https://www.ford.com.br/sr_f250_default.asp?sr=f250cd

Brazilian Ford F-250 with Cummins 4bt common rail. ~230-250 HP. Now why don't we get that here..

transientmechanic

11-19-2008, 04:39 PM

200hp, 370 lb/ft

I'll take one.

I don't know if this is already posted, but:

https://www.ford.com.br/sr_f250_default.asp?sr=f250cd

Brazilian Ford F-250 with Cummins 4bt common rail. ~230-250 HP. Now why don't we get that here..

haven

11-21-2008, 03:42 AM

Volkswagen is showing the 2009 Touareg 2 TDI at the LA Auto Show. It's powered by a 3.0L V6 turbodiesel rated to produce 221 hp and 407 lb-ft of torque. VW dealers are supposed to start taking orders in January.

The Touareg 2 with optional gasoline V8 engine has less torque, is rated for 13/18 mpg, and costs more than the TDI model. No word yet on the tax credit you'd receive by buying the TDI model.

The EPA rates the 2009 Touareg 2 TDI for 17 mpg city/ 25 mpg highway. VW promises to publish some real-world tests that produce somewhat higher numbers. I'd expect high 20's, which would be 50% better than the gas V8.

VW says the Touareg 2 TDI MSRP will start at $43,490, including destination charge. For that money, you get full time AWD, a transfer case with low range, and electronic traction control.

A locking rear differential costs $700. The optional adjustable air suspension can raise the car up to provide as much as 11.8 inches of ground clearance. All in all, the touareg 2 has the equipment to be very capable off-road.

Curb weight of the Touareg 2 is about 5000 lbs, with 1250 lb cargo capacity and 7700 lb towing capacity.

Chip Haven

haven

11-26-2008, 03:53 PM

If you've got $50K to spend on a big SUV, then consider the Audi Q7 with 3.0L turbodiesel. It will go on sale in late winter.

Edmunds Inside Line drove a preproduction version from Death Valley over Tioga Pass to Monterey CA. Trying every trick they could think of to increase mpg while maintaining legal speed limits, they recorded 30 mpg. Not bad for a 5500 lb, 7 passenger SUV! 22mpg was the result on Inside Line's regular test loop of mixed city/highway driving . Read more here

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Followup/articleId=136386

haven

12-17-2008, 01:30 AM

It's becoming really difficult to justify a diesel vehicle on a dollars per mile basis. At this writing, regular gas in the Las Vegas area is around $1.60. Diesel is about $2.25. That's about 40% more per gallon for diesel.

When gas was twice as expensive, diesel was still $.60 to $.75 a gallon more than regular gas. That made diesel maybe 20% more expensive. Because diesel vehicles usually increase miles per gallon more than 20%, diesel was a viable alternative. When prices rise again, diesel will be more attractive option. For now, however, a diesel engine vehicle will be more expensive to buy, and more expensive to operate than a similar gasoline powered vehicle.

There are a couple of alternatives to diesel under development.

Ford is having success developing its EcoBoost twin-turbocharged direct injection gasoline engines. The direct injection of gasoline under high pressure cools the combustion chamber, allowing a higher compression without detonation on regular gas. The result is a 3.5L EcoBoost V6 engine that is as powerful as Ford's 5.4L V8, with fuel economy more like a normally aspirated V6.

The EcoBoost engine adds maybe $1000 to the cost of the engine. Diesels carry a much higher price premium. And pollution control for a gas engine doesn't require particulate traps and urea injection, either. The first EcoBoost V6 engine should appear in Ford F150 and Ford Flex models for 2010.

Mercedes is working on an engine nicknamed DiesOtto. Its combustion is half diesel and half spark. A conventional spark coil per cylinder is used to start the engine, and when strong acceleration is required. Under steady state loads, the engine switches over to compression ignition. With twin turbos, an experimental 1.8L DiesOtto engine has produced about 200 hp and 300 ft-lb of torque.

Interesting new designs! Maybe it won't matter if diesel remains very expensive.

Chip Haven

cnynrat

12-17-2008, 02:07 PM

It's becoming really difficult to justify a diesel vehicle on a dollars per mile basis. At this writing, regular gas in the Las Vegas area is around $1.60. Diesel is about $2.25. That's about 40% more per gallon for diesel.

When gas was twice as expensive, diesel was still $.60 to $.75 a gallon more than regular gas. That made diesel maybe 20% more expensive. Because diesel vehicles usually increase miles per gallon more than 20%, diesel was a viable alternative. When prices rise again, diesel will be more attractive option.

I went through this arithmetic when I bought my F350 Powerstroke back in 1999, and had trouble justifying the purchase on purely financial terms even back then. The payoff time was simply too long - I seem to recall thinking it was going to be 125k miles or more to break even. And I was not contemplating the kind of price premium for diesel that we're seeing today. You're right that with today's fuel price situation it's probably not possible to justify the diesel based on operating cost savings.

In our case we went ahead and bought the diesel anyway because I wanted the performance characteristics and we were fortunate enough to be able to afford the up front cost of the diesel option. We carry a camper on the truck, and the diesel helps with the weight. I also wanted the limited loss of performance at high elevations from the turbo, and longer range between fill ups.

The price difference for diesel vs. gas right now is astounding. Seems like at this time of year you often hear the excuse that the refiners are putting their production into heating oil, so maybe we'll see some relief come spring.

Mercedes is working on an engine nicknamed DiesOtto. Its combustion is half diesel and half spark. A conventional spark coil per cylinder is used to start the engine, and when strong acceleration is required. Under steady state loads, the engine switches over to compression ignition. With twin turbos, an experimental 1.8L DiesOtto engine has produced about 200 hp and 300 ft-lb of torque.

This is some very interesting technology.

jfarsang

12-17-2008, 06:08 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/16/science/16objava.html?_r=1

:coffeedrink:

In research that touches on two of Americans’ great obsessions — coffee and cars — scientists at the University of Nevada, Reno, have made diesel fuel from used coffee grounds.

The technique is not difficult, they report in The Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry, and there is so much coffee around that several hundred million gallons of biodiesel could potentially be made annually.

Mano Misra, a professor of engineering who conducted the research with Narasimharao Kondamudi and Susanta K. Mohapatra, said it was by accident that he realized coffee beans contained a significant amount of oil. “I made a coffee one night but forgot to drink it,” he said. “The next morning I saw a layer of oil floating on it.” He and his team thought there might be a useful amount of oil in used grounds, so they went to several Starbucks stores and picked up about 50 pounds of them.

Analysis showed that even the grounds contained about 10 to 15 percent oil by weight. The researchers then used standard chemistry techniques to extract the oil and convert it to biodiesel. The processes are not particularly energy intensive, Dr. Misra said, and the researchers estimated that biodiesel could be produced for about a dollar a gallon.

One hurdle, Dr. Misra said, is in collecting grounds efficiently — there are few centralized sources of coffee grounds. But the researchers plan to set up a small pilot operation next year using waste from a local bulk roaster.

Even if all the coffee grounds in the world were used to make fuel, the amount produced would be less than 1 percent of the diesel used in the United States annually. “It won’t solve the world’s energy problem,” Dr. Misra said of his work. “But our objective is to take waste material and convert it to fuel.”

And biodiesel made from grounds has one other advantage, he said: the exhaust smells like coffee. :coffee:

cnynrat

12-17-2008, 06:28 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/16/science/16objava.html?_r=1
And biodiesel made from grounds has one other advantage, he said: the exhaust smells like coffee. :coffee:

Puts new meaning to the phrase "Wake up and smell the coffee"

Or how about, "Ahhhh, I love the smell of diesel exhaust in the morning."

haven

12-18-2008, 04:36 AM

Thanks, nice find!

Next, we'll have the coffee-growing nations forming their own version of OPEC! Or maybe Starbucks will start selling biodiesel as well as double mocha lattes.

haven

12-18-2008, 04:55 AM

Attached below is a note about new emissions rules for medium and heavy diesel trucks in California. The rules include a requirement to retrofit older models. I have been unable to find out if the rules apply to trucks owned for personal use, rather than for business. I will post an update when I learn more.

Chip Haven

The California Air Resources Board (CARB) is close to finalizing a ruling that will reduce air pollution generated by heavy trucks. The new rule will require owners of newer trucks with GVWR over 14,000 lbs to add diesel particulate filters to their engines by 2011. About 230,000 rigs will be affected. Pickups are exempt from this new rule.

An additional 350,000 rigs will be required to REPLACE their engines altogether because they pollute too much to fix with add-ons. This regulation will phase in over 15 years.

The rule will apply to all medium and heavy trucks using the roadways of California, regardless of which state (or country) they are registered in.

CARB believes this heavy-handed approach is justified by the pollution levels in LA and Orange County, and in the San Joaquin Valley, where pollution by diesel trucks is the worst. California has the least healthy air of any state in the country. It's estimated that heavy trucks contribute about 1/3 of all air pollution. California will lose a large amount of federal dollars if it is unable to meet clean air standards.

As you might imagine, truckers are not happy. Small trucking operations in particular are saying they will be forced out of business by the unwanted expense. The market for older used trucks that require an engine replacement has declined sharply in advance of the new rule. (On the other hand, this has been good news for people who live in nearby states and are looking to buy a used truck!)

CARB acknowledges that the trucking industry will spend $5.5 billion retrofitting their vehicles. The state is offering subsidies to help pay for the switch.

As a direct result of the changes, CARB thinks that the state will reduce health care costs by as much as $60 billion over the next 15 years. They expect health improvements to include lower incidence of lung disease, cancer and heart attack.

for more
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2008/10/californias-die.html
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-diesel13-2008dec13,0,872554.story

charlieaarons

12-18-2008, 06:03 AM

RVs are exempt. But to qualify as an RV, at least in my state, you must have 3 of the following 4 items: toilet, fridge, stove and bed. And sleepers on semi-tractors don't count.
Needless to say, the Unimog owners in California that don't have camper bodies are very unhappy.
We may see an epidemic of camper conversions on Unimogs in California.

Charlie

SinCityFJC

12-24-2008, 05:24 PM

Liposuction Power

Feel the burn? Beverly Hills doctor turns patients' fat into bio-diesel fuel

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=3361201&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/

haven

12-29-2008, 02:21 PM

In the EU, Mercedes, BMW, and VW all have new 6 cylinder diesel designs for use in passenger cars and SUVs. Diesel fuel costs about the same as gasoline in Europe, and offers better fuel economy. New emissions control devices make the diesels as clean an gas engine models.

Now Jaguar has joined the club with a new V6 twin turbo diesel engine. Power is rated at 275 hp and 440 ft-lb of torque. In the XF sedan, the new diesel returns 42 miles per imperial gallon in combined driving. (about 35 mpg when using USA gallons)

Jaguar has made no announcement about importing the new V6 diesel to North America. With the big difference in price between diesel and gas here, it seems unlikely that they will do so anytime soon.

http://www.jaguar.co.uk/uk/en/latest/news/current/The-new-XF-V6-Diesel-S.htm

Chip Haven

mauricio_28

12-31-2008, 07:04 AM

... New emissions control devices make the diesels as clean an gas engine models...

I think common-rail technology does as much as emissions control devices to make diesel powerplants clean(er). The downside is that common-rail technology increases the complexity of the fuel injection process.

Antichrist

12-31-2008, 11:23 AM

The rule will apply to all medium and heavy trucks using the roadways of California, regardless of which state (or country) they are registered in.I wonder if this would violate NAFTA. I recall that there were issues enforcing even road safety laws, like brakes, lights, etc, on trucks coming up from Mexico because it "restricted trade".

haven

01-10-2009, 10:34 PM

Autobloggreen reports that BMW has added a fourth diesel powerplant to the 1 Series. The 116D produces 116 hp and 192 lb-ft, and gets 53 mpg in combined driving using the EU's test method. That mpg result is great for a vehicle that weighs about 3300 lbs.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/01/09/bmw-adds-fourth-variant-to-1-series-diesel-lineup-53-5-mpg-116d/

What interested me is that the four diesel engines BMW offers in the 1 Series are all based on their 2.0L four cylinder turbodiesel, but in different states of tune. The most powerful is the 123D (204 hp, 295 lb-ft, ).

These engines would be a great fit if BMW decides to market an SUV smaller than the X3, or in the MINI Clubman. The turbo gas engine in the MINI makes about 180 lb-ft of torque, so the 116D would be a step up in typical driving performance.

Chip Haven

haven

01-16-2009, 04:02 PM

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/01/16/ford-and-navistar-settle-lawsuits-quit-diesel-supply-deal

Ford and Navistar have reached an agreement that settles their lawsuits against each other. The two companies will part ways at the end of 2009.

What is not clear at this point is whether Ford will offer a diesel Superduty pickup for the 2010 model year. Ford already announced that it will delay introduction of the 4.4L V8 diesel for the F150. In any case, that engine lacks the power needed to replace the 6.4L V8 diesel in the Superduty pickups.

Demand for diesel pickups has fallen because of the premium charged for diesel fuel, and because diesel powered pickups are considerably more expensive than gas powered models.

If Ford won't use Navistar engines, the Cummins 6.7L straight 6 is the most obvious solution, since this engine already meets 2010 emissions standards. Or perhaps Ford will rely on its proven gas V10 alone.

The companies have been in court for a couple of years. Ford was suing Navistar over increased warranty costs (read: crappy design that produced early engine failures) for the 6.0L Powerstroke diesel V8. Navistar sued Ford because Ford designed their own light diesel (a variation on a design now used by Land Rover and Jaguar) while under contract for Navistar to provide a similar engine.

Under the agreement, a joint venture between Ford and Navistar called Blue Diamond Enterprises will continue to build the F650 and F750 truck models. Ford will continue to buy Navistar's 3.0L four cylinder diesel for use in trucks in South America.

But 2009 will likely be the last year of the Powerstroke in the F250 through F550 pickup models.

Chip Haven