Dual Battery Management

[blupaddler]

I am an electrical novice. I am working setting up a dual-battery system for my 80.

I know Scott is using the Sure Power Isolator:

http://www.surepower.com/separator.html


Boston Mangler is using his super simple and cheap method. I like his method due to the simplicity. (attachment)


There is also the Hell Roaring system. Which I like b/c you can control the unit from the cab.

http://www.hellroaring.com/4wheel.htm



Then...there is the Ibs Dual Battery System that TJM makes. The unit appears to be fairly simple to my feable mind. You can also monitor both batteries via the LED lights (a bonus for weirdo like me). BUT this unit is rather expensive.

http://tjmbullbars.com/ibs.htm


Lastly there is the Power-Gate by Mobi Arc. There is no moving parts (?) and very little loss of power. These guys are local, and I have been meaning to go and talk to them. Just haven't yet.

http://www.perfectswitch.com/#





Basically, I am looking for assistance from all the other electrical gurus here that know a lot more than me. My knowledge is limited, but growing...slowly. :smilies27



Thanks
:coffee:

[DaktariEd]

I use the Hellroaring Technologies unit.
Check out their website.
They have a lot of helpful artcles that deal with "how-to" issues...and the "boss" there has always responded to my e-mail questions...
HTH,
:D
Ed

[Dave]

12voltguy.com (http://www.12voltguy.com/catalog.0.html9.0.html) also has a solution. I'll be watching this thread since I'm hoping to do a dual battery setup sometime in the next six months.

[Scott Brady]

Cool Robb. Good luck with this.

I am very happy with my simple solution, the SurePower 200amp.

[SinCity4r]

x2

[BajaXplorer]

Scott,
Are you using the 1314-200 or the 1315-200?
Where did you source it? I have had trouble finding a place to buy one.
BX

[SinCity4r]

I got mine from Wrangler NW. (re-labeled, same unit)
You can ring them at 800.962.2616.

I'm using the 1314-200 in my 04 4runner.

[Scott Brady]

Mine is the 1314 and was purchased direct from Surepower.

[BajaTaco]

No offense to Mr. Mangler, but I would definitely not use the manual battery switch method. I think it is too easy to forget to switch it and you will either end up with a dead starting battery (forgetting to isolate), or a dead auxiliary battery (forgetting to combine). Then again, most people probably have a better memory than I.

Having the in-cab indicators is really nice. It's a bonus to be able to see if there is anything going on that shouldn't be. And also nice to confirm that both banks are being actively charged when underway.

I think these new Surepower units like Scott has are tough to beat for the price. Very cool.

I also have really wanted to try out the new MobiArc. I think having that ultra-low resisitance would be a nice bonus for getting the aux. battery charged back up faster after a camp session with a deep draw-down. Definitely costs more though.

If it were me, I'd probably buy the SurePower or the Mobi-Arc. If money were no object, I'd be tempted to get the HellRoaring or maybe even a Xantrex with a visual indicator and controls you could put in the cab.

[asteffes]

I'm liking the Hellroaring units. I envision teaming that with two of the nice Odyssey batteries that Expedition Exchange is selling (or the Yellow Top I've had sitting in the garage for a few months.) But that's easily a $1k project using the fancy batteries!

Have any of you attempted an under-bed battery box? I want to avoid another battery under the hood for better weight distribution. I may talk to my fabricator friend about welding up a box that tucks between the framerails.

[BajaTaco]

I'm liking the Hellroaring units. I envision teaming that with two of the nice Odyssey batteries that Expedition Exchange is selling (or the Yellow Top I've had sitting in the garage for a few months.) But that's easily a $1k project using the fancy batteries!

Have any of you attempted an under-bed battery box? I want to avoid another battery under the hood for better weight distribution. I may talk to my fabricator friend about welding up a box that tucks between the framerails.

That would be a sweet setup! I definitely thought about an under-bed box, but ultimately decided against it. Not because it was a bad idea, but just because I figured something out that worked better for me. I think doing a battery under the Tacoma would be a substantial project.

[blupaddler]

a Xantrex with a visual indicator and controls you could put in the cab.


:confused: :confused: :confused:

What is a Xantrex? Brand...
Where would I find indicators or controls? If I remember correctly, you have an indicator on your passenger side xcab? Where did you get yours? Obviously, this would require more wires to run, etc, etc.

[Scott Brady]

Xentrex (http://www.xantrex.com/) is one of the highest quality and feature rich charge control options available.

I actually hope to do a complete upgrade to their systems, inverters, solar controller and load/system controller.

12v system charger (http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/180/p/1/pt/7/product.asp): Provides 120v hook-up for charging the vehicles 12v batteries.

Inverters (http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/2/type.asp): For converting 12v to 120v 60hz

I will share more of my plans early next year. I need to beef up the charging, reserve and solar systems of the truck in preparation for South America.

[Mlachica]

I am using the mobiarc surepower 200. It's from their first batch of production units :rolleyes:

The isolator only needs to be rated for whatever amperage your alternator is capable of putting out. I opted for the 200 so I will have the option of beefing up the alternator.

My unit is just an isolator, it will not combine the batteries. And for me, it has worked great. I haven't had any problems and it was a cinch to hook up. Hardest part is just routing your power cables and such.

With this unit your alternator constantly charges both batteries with minimal power loss. Also, with this setup your auxilliary battery is constantly jump starting your main (starting) battery. This means your main battery will never have a lesser charge than your aux battery.

I run all of my aux load from my aux battery (odyssey 1700mjt) which includes but isn't limited to, fridge, bunch o' lights, winch and communications.

I find with the way this system is designed there is no need to combine both batteries. And when not combining batteries that means there's minimal chance of having a dead starting battery (can happen when forgetting to uncombine the battery during extensive electrical loads).

Some useful and impressive info found here (http://www.perfectswitch.com/images/isolatorspecs.gif)

[BajaTaco]

:confused: :confused: :confused:

What is a Xantrex? Brand...
Where would I find indicators or controls? If I remember correctly, you have an indicator on your passenger side xcab? Where did you get yours? Obviously, this would require more wires to run, etc, etc.

Yes, Xantrex is very big in the RV and Marine industry. The unit I have is one of their older "Pathmaker" models (no longer made) [correction: they are still made. - BT 10-13-08], which I purchased through eBay. I separated the control panel from the isolator solenoid. I mounted the solenoid in the engine bay close to the batteries, and I put the panel inside the xcab. There are some pics here (http://bajataco.com/dualbatts/dualbatteries01.html).

[blupaddler]

Quick question for those of you with the Hell Roaring...

They recommend that you keep all your accessories on the MAIN battery. Have you done this? Are you using a fridge or other item that is wired hot?

My thought with the aux. battery was to run my camping type systems off the aux. battery. Maybe I have something wrong here.



Baja, the guage that monitors the batteries is just a simple marine grade guage correct?

:jump:



I am leaning towards the Perfect Switch by Mobi Arc. Just thinking through stuff still.

[asteffes]

Hellroaring takes a different approach to the auxialliary battery idea. In their view, the secondary battery exists to get you out of a jam when your primary battery fails you. So, for example, you winch yourself out of a lake with the engine off and end up killing your main battery. Flip a switch and you can start up using the secondary battery.

In thier view, it is better to ensure you always have a fully-charged secondary battery to save your butt than to split the loads across to batteries. You can combine the two batteries if you really want or need to by flipping a switch, but the standard condition is to keep the secondary isolated as purely a backup power source.

It seems to me that one might want to run a deep-cycle battery as the main cell in this case, but that's probably not the ideal solution. Some deep-cycle batteries are not built to survive repeated heavy discharges from gigantic loads (like a winch) the way a starting battery would. So with the Hellroaring solution, you sort of benefit cost-wise from using two starting batteries instead of paying extra for a Yellow Top or similar.

Or you could go top-flight, over-the-top, no-expenses-spared and get a pair of Odyssey batteries that can do it all, have awesome CCA and runtime stats. In any case, the Hellroaring design is deceptively simple and probably a good way to go for many people who don't or won't practice good battery management and end up running down both batteries.

But a less expensive solution might be to just get a $50 jumper pack from Costco. It certainly won't run your winch but it will get your engine started if that's what you're most concerned about. :)

[rgsiii]

My dual battery system is set up so that the winch is set up to run off the primary battery,per the TJM IBS instructions. It made sense when the logic was explained to me. Honestly, I think either way has merits.

[Desertdude]

I have two HR units one in the Tacoma and one in th 80 - everything on the main ( stating batt) then the second bat is for back up - I can help you if you have any questions. PM me for any details

I also have the Xantrex inverter and it has a remote for monitoring - this is a sweet set up for not too much $$ - it also tels you what the stats are - my 276C GPS also tells me what the voltage is on the main batt.

BTW Mike at HR is first rate at CS and I have had long discussions on my set up in the Tacoma

[BajaTaco]

I think either scenario can work. I have most of my accessories (winch, fridge, lights, 2M radio, CB radio, 12v ports, air compressor) powered from my aux. battery. My logic is that this way, I can really thrash on the aux. battery if I want to (deep discharges, repeated discharges), and retain the "stock" battery/elec. configuration with my starting battery isolated and safe. I don't know that the opposite config. is really any different (?) except that you would need to combine or switch using the 2nd battery to get underway if you dried up the battery with all of the toys on it, whereas with my configuration, there is no switching or combining necessary.

Robb, yes - the battery energy gauges are a marine product (another ebay find).

[edit: It just dawned on me that I guess with the HR method, the reserve battery is basically never cycled or used for anything. So now that I think about it, I guess that would be even more reliable, especially if using a battery like Optima or Odyssey that has a really super long shelf life.]

[blupaddler]

Baja...

My train of thought was travelling along your track. I wanted to keep all my "other" items separate from my starting battery.

Thanks for your edit...That actually helps explain the HR concept to me. I guess I am just weary of running off my starting battery for days on end. But, having a nice untouched aux. seems nice.

[asteffes]

I think either scenario can work. I have most of my accessories (winch, fridge, lights, 2M radio, CB radio, 12v ports, air compressor) powered from my aux. battery. My logic is that this way, I can really thrash on the aux. battery if I want to (deep discharges, repeated discharges), and retain the "stock" battery/elec. configuration with my starting battery isolated and safe. I don't know that the opposite config. is really any different (?) except that you would need to combine or switch using the 2nd battery to get underway if you dried up the battery with all of the toys on it, whereas with my configuration, there is no switching or combining necessary.

Robb, yes - the battery energy gauges are a marine product (another ebay find).

[edit: It just dawned on me that I guess with the HR method, the reserve battery is basically never cycled or used for anything. So now that I think about it, I guess that would be even more reliable, especially if using a battery like Optima or Odyssey that has a really super long shelf life.]

I think another of HR's goals is to prevent the heaviest loads from passing through their device by puting the loads before their isolator. Thus, their device does not have to withstand a 400 ampere draw from a winch. The largest load it would ever see is the draw from the starter should you have to switch to the backup battery.

Presumably, one wouldn't combine the batteries to run a winch if the main battery was totally dead as one might end up with no starting power should the secondary battery run down because of the winch load. So if one did combine the batteries to run the winch one would still be drawing at least some energy from the main battery and not entirely from the backup.

I like your reasoning, BajaTaco, but I think it's a wash either way. :costumed-smiley-007

[Desertdude]

here is my thinking on the aux battery being separated - if you are like me and have some things still on the main battery like stereo - CB - interior lights - charging an iPod or anything else still on the main batt system and leave those things on ( as well as use voltage from your second -aux- batt) during the same time - what will start your truck if you leave things running? Keeping everything on the main batt makes it a no brainer if you leave stuff on - you always have a freshly charged batt waiting if you need it

I have on occasion used the HR and the aux batt to start both the Tacoma and the 80 series - the 80 has a lesser amp alt and has a harder time keeping up with the inverter when it is cranking

I bought my Xantrex Pro 1800 Inverter (http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/250946/0/0/xantex%20inverter/All_2/mode+matchallpartial/0/0) through West marine (who have the best CS) it has the cool remote for turning on a batt status ( using a phone cable for extension) - I have it in the 80 series and ran 0/3 wire to the batt

I will miss this feature in the Tacoma - so... I will have to get one and put it in the aux tool box with my other important items

[edit] additional info - I am running an Extreme outback compressor of my aux batt in the Tacoma ( I leave the engine running when I use it) and in the 80 series I have the inverter on the aux batt ( I use this while running the engine or just driving) I am mentioning this because I do think it is good to occasionally use the second aux batt - while keeping a fresh charge into it

[Mlachica]

Desertdude,

With the HR system what kind of batteries are you using? I presume your aux battery is a smaller battery just to get your vehicle started.



Some good info here fellas. It appears like there's a system for everybody...whether you plan on

1. HR - using factory loads like the radio/lighting in addition to aux loads

2. Solenoid Combiner - if you need to combine your batteries for extended winching, welding or to jumpstart your starting battery

3. Mobi arc - if you run everything off of your aux battery and don't need to combine the batteries

[cruiseroutfit]

Hopping in a little late... I run the NW Wrangler Products on my FJ40, it has worked flawlessly over the years. I run a Optima Red on the primary starting/power circuit and a Yellow top on the secondary winch/aux power circuit. I am still working out a switching system for my Ready Welder, though at this point it is going to be MUCH easier to disconnect a couple cables (and use a jumper harness when I need the welder on 24 volts)

[cruiseroutfit]

Oh heres the underhood pic..

[bigreen505]

How would solar charging factor into the equation, and would one system be better than another in that context. I can definitely see how each system takes a different route, and I think I prefer the BajaTaco answer for my needs.

[Desertdude]

Desertdude,

With the HR system what kind of batteries are you using? I presume your aux battery is a smaller battery just to get your vehicle started.


In the Tacoma group 34 optima yellow tops for both battieries - but today I am installing a larger group 31 optima yellow top for the aux I have the room for it - all though it is said that is is better to have the same batteries

in the 80 series two group 31 Optima yellow tops ( fits in perfect)

[asteffes]

I have read that it is preferanble to use starting-type batteries instead of deep cycle units for a winch load. This is because a winch draws a huge amount of current very rapidly instead of a smaller load over many hours, and a starting battery handles this type of draw better than most deep cycle batteries.

Another option to consider is simply using one really good, really big battery and no auxilliary system at all. For jump-starting, carry cables and/or a jumper pack (you do go into the outback with a buddy, right? :) ) Something like the Group 31 Optima Blue Top or Odyssey PC2150 models. They're huge and heavy but also have some nice stats, like 1000+ CCA and 2-3 hour reserve times.

An interesting twist is that Odyssey is now gaining in popularity as their batteries are supposed to feature the benefits of a starting battery and deep-cycle battery in one. I'll probably replace my factory battery with an Odyssey Group 34 model when the time comes.

https://www.expeditionexchange.com/odyssey/

[Mike S]

Another alternative is the BlueSea marine battery system. I used this on my FJ60 with excellent results, managing two Optima Yellowtops. It has a manual control for mounting in the dash (ON-Auto-OFF). Unlike the Hell Roaring and Sure Power, it is a manual system enabling full charge and automatic low voltage isolation.

M

[Desertdude]

The optima yellow tops are suppose to be somewhere in the middle of the starting and deep cycle

I am not too impressed with Optima - but I still by their products - I guess I like the colors :rolleyes:

[Mlachica]

It is true that the odyssey is a more balanced battery that is why they don't use the different color tops game. Another nice thing is that they are covered in a metal jacket for durability. I use a 1200mjt for my starter and a 1700mjt as an aux.

About two years ago I remember reading a comparison on batteries in one of the US 4x mags. I can't remember all the details but the jist of it was they used the same winch equipped vehicle and pulled a load until the battery died. The odyssey won...


all though it is said that is is better to have the same batteries

That is correct, the reason is the internal resistance of the battery. If they are equal then they will charge equally. If they are unbalanced, the battery with the lesser resistance will charge faster.

Here's a good informational on battery systems by sure power: HERE (http://www.surepower.com/pdf/ebr_int.pdf)

[Desertdude]

I had a issue with two yellow top optimas - they won't hold a charge anymore - only a year old - could be the heat in AZ - I am writing to Optima to find out what they think

[Boston Mangler]

I had a issue with two yellow top optimas - they won't hold a charge anymore - only a year old - could be the heat in AZ - I am writing to Optima to find out what they think

had the same problem with a red and a yellow within months of each others, wont EVER use them again, also had several friends have problems with them as well. overhyped in my opinion!

[Scott Brady]

Me too: Killed the blue top in 8 months...

I am just finding that optimas are good for starting batteries only :(

I am going to try the Oddyssey (sp?) next.

[rgsiii]

I just put in an Odyssey PC2150 Battery in my 1997 LC as the starting battery a type 31 battery. It is an extremely heavy battery and seems to take up more space than a 31 type Optima yellow top. The Optima slipped in easily on the passenger side which is a mirror image of the driver's side compartment. For the Odyssey, the cross bar that holds the battery had to be modified as did the battery compartment. No mods were needed for the Optima.

The Odyssey battery comes with a post that can be adapted to accept a standard Toyota terminal. The sleeve that is put on it has instruction not to torque over 200. I was unsure how I could torque it that high--my torque wrench just goes up to 78 ft pounds. Then saw it was in INCH pounds.:o

[Desertdude]

yes it is time for a switch if you really use the batteries- I am looking into other options as well

[asteffes]

The big Odyssey 2150 is definitely a big'un. :) I think their Group 34 1500 is closer to the size of a standard Toyota battery and should be a drop-in. It's also closer to the weight of an Optima (vs. the 2150's nearly 80 pounds of heft.)

[rgsiii]

The big Odyssey 2150 is definitely a big'un. :) I think their Group 34 1500 is closer to the size of a standard Toyota battery and should be a drop-in. It's also closer to the weight of an Optima (vs. the 2150's nearly 80 pounds of heft.)


It really is a big battery--I was unsure of which way to go and since bigger is always better deided on this.

I have a lot of weight up forward in the 1997 with the two 31 type batteries. I have two 34's in my 1994--I guess it is nearly 100 lbs less in just battery weight. :smileeek:

[Mlachica]

a general rule of thumb is the heavier the battery the greater the ampacity...

[BajaTaco]

How would solar charging factor into the equation, and would one system be better than another in that context. I can definitely see how each system takes a different route, and I think I prefer the BajaTaco answer for my needs.

Adding solar would be a fantastic addition for a vehicle that sees plenty of sunny trips and enjoys being parked at a camp for any length of time. If you can get past the high cost, they are a fairly simple and effective way to extend your remote camping with a fridge and other accessories.

How would it factor into the equation? Basically, you would just connect the solar panels to the battery that will handling your auxiliary loads (i.e. parked with engine shut off). A charge controller may be necessary (simple in-line device that regulates the solar charge to the battery). There is no need to connect it to the battery that will only be used when the vehicle is running.

We discussed some solar issues in this thread (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134).

[bigreen505]

Thanks, I'll check that out. What I meant was that of all the systems being discussed and compared, would the plan to use solar tilt the scales toward one particular type of system, or manufacturer for that matter, or not?

I know most large sailboats use a combination of solar, diesel and occasionally wind power to charge batteries, so I know many manufacturers cater to that market.

[BajaTaco]

Thanks, I'll check that out. What I meant was that of all the systems being discussed and compared, would the plan to use solar tilt the scales toward one particular type of system, or manufacturer for that matter, or not?

Hmmm... I would say probably not. By using solar, you would just be adding the capability to recharge the battery (or batteries) while the engine is shut off. I can't really see how it would really have any bearing on system choice, other than maybe a Xantrex system which likely has an integrated solution where solar is a component and you could control charging and monitor the loads and charge (comprehensive one-stop shopping type of thing). The Earthroamers have this setup and it is super sweet. You can see just how many amps are going out (loads) and just how many are coming in (solar), and what the current battery bank state of charge is.

[BajaTaco]

Me too: Killed the blue top in 8 months...

I am just finding that optimas are good for starting batteries only :(

I am going to try the Oddyssey (sp?) next.

Scott, I have been suspicious of my Optima ever since we did the Climb n' Crawl earlier this year and the thing went flat while I had it parked in camp. I just ran a little test with it (Optima group 31 yellow - the big one) using my fridge. I started off yesterday with pre-cooling the fridge on shore power to 34.5° F and ambient temp in the cab was 94.5° F. I loaded the fridge (60L) to about 60% capacity. I switched over to the Optima and ran it overnight. I started on a dial setting of about 2.5 (1-4 dial) and a batt. voltage of 12.89V. By 11:00pm, the fridge temp was at 30.3° F and ambient cab temp. was 76.4° F. I adjusted the dial setting to 1.8.

Checked it this morning (7:20am) and fridge was at 39° F, running very quietly. I checked the battery voltage and it was at 9.98V :smilies27 So that was only 14 hours with a cool evening, and it's a goner.


I got about 3 years of good use out of it. I didn't exactly treat it well either. Many deep discharges and I probably didn't put it on a charger as often as I should have. I am thinking the Odyssey deserves a try now.

[Desertdude]

Chris - yes Optima appears to be on their way out of the community...

[blupaddler]

Chris

Jack is running just the single Odyssey in his 80. I know he got the BIG one so he can run the fridge and other accessories. He wasn't planning on running a dual battery b/c of added complications and the massive amp hours he got from just the Odyssey.

[Desertdude]

I have found that if you run the vehicle at least once a day - there is almost no need for a second battery - no matter what brand - but if you sit for a couple days you will eventually need to re charge it somehow. This is where two solar panels can come in very handy - nice quiet recharging if there is enough sun...

The Engel is very efficiant in energy draw - my music is a fairly low draw - the inverter needs power and uses it :yikes:

Knowing the feeling that the only way I can get moving again is from a jump start from another vehicle (and being all alone)- leads me to always back up the back up :)

[Scott Brady]

I am going to research converting to Oddyssy's and more solar. I will advise of the progress.

I believe it is critical for me to be able to camp for 2-3 days without having to run the motor for extended periods (or at all)

[BajaTaco]

Chris

Jack is running just the single Odyssey in his 80. I know he got the BIG one so he can run the fridge and other accessories. He wasn't planning on running a dual battery b/c of added complications and the massive amp hours he got from just the Odyssey.

Thanks Robb, I would only get as large as the group 31, which for Odyssey is at 105AH. (My Optima is 75AH). So that is a 40% increase, which would be nice.

Scott, definitely let us know what you find out. I can't afford to get solar (would rather get new seats first), but I am interested nonetheless.

[blupaddler]

I believe it is critical for me to be able to camp for 2-3 days without having to run the motor for extended periods (or at all)

Scott,

I am right there with you, for that exact reason. Which is actually why I have waited so long to do a dual battery.
So, based on your current power draws...fridge, radio, daily photo downloading ; ), and hot water heater...you couldn't stay for two-three days?

[Scott Brady]

Unfortunately no, and for a few reasons.

Mainly, the fridge I have is the older unit, and pulls nearly 5 amps

Second, the solar panels are not getting full sun on the tent, I am seeing a max of 2.4 amps at high noon. That is close to their rated output, but not enough. So, I need to add more solar and a charge controller.

Third, just like a fuel tank, my reserve battery is too small. Only 55 amp hours from the blue top. It is not enough, and I already killed it. The Chaser has a 105 amp hour lifeline. I am doing some testing with it to compare performance.

So, I believe my solution is three fold.

1. Larger AH truck battery (at least 70 amp hours)
2. More solar (probably two more panels for 80 watts total)
3. A big daddy aux. battery of 105 amp hours.

This set-up should give me unlimited camping with the exception of showering. To heat the water I need to run the truck. The heater pulls 60 amps. This is not an issue for most trips as we camp and then drive and then camp, etc. That allows me to heat the water while on the trail.

[BajaTaco]

Scott,

I am right there with you, for that exact reason. Which is actually why I have waited so long to do a dual battery.
So, based on your current power draws...fridge, radio, daily photo downloading ; ), and hot water heater...you couldn't stay for two-three days?

Robb, I think if you follows Scott's method for calculating your loads for a 24 hour period, like this (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1298&postcount=1) ...

and then use my calculations in this post (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1320&postcount=8) to determine how much battery and solar capacity you need, you will be able to figure it out.

Scott, I think since you already have a nice bracket and space for the group 34 battery, you should explore the idea of just adding another group 34 in parallel (provided your brand of choice could utilize the space/bracket where your Optima now resides). This would potentially give you even more AH than a single group 31.

[asteffes]

I think the real answer to your problem is:

[asteffes]

In all seriousness, when you suggest using two Group 34s in parallel, Chris, are you suggesting running them without an isolator? I know people do it, but it seems that might lead to problems with uneven charge/discharge levels and possible damage to the batteries. It's also more stuff to break, connections to come loose, etc.

[Scott Brady]

I think the real answer to your problem is:

:xxrotflma :jump:

[BajaTaco]

In all seriousness, when you suggest using two Group 34s in parallel, Chris, are you suggesting running them without an isolator? I know people do it, but it seems that might lead to problems with uneven charge/discharge levels and possible damage to the batteries. It's also more stuff to break, connections to come loose, etc.

Yes, just connecting the two together for 12VDC but twice the AH. Any reason not to do that with the AGM type batteries we are talking about (Lifeline, Odyssey)?

[Scott Brady]

Yeah, it is pretty typical to run those batteries in parallel without a separator.

[bigreen505]

I think the real answer to your problem is:

Not really. With this homeland security nonsense stockpiling plutonium is getting harder to do, and not everyone generates enough trash on trips for the other way. :shakin:

[Mlachica]

In all seriousness, when you suggest using two Group 34s in parallel, Chris, are you suggesting running them without an isolator? I know people do it, but it seems that might lead to problems with uneven charge/discharge levels and possible damage to the batteries. It's also more stuff to break, connections to come loose, etc.

given you use the same battery models or at least batteries with the same internal resistance then there shouldn't be any problems with uneven charging/discharging.

Quality crimps/lugs and using loctite can last 50+ years :ylsmoke: In the electric utility industry we have equipment that's been in service this long and show no signs of letting go. The wiring goes through many vibrations from trains and CB operating mechanisms as well as extreme heat

[Desertdude]

I measured the battery area in the Tacoma yesterday and think I can get a group 31 in that same spot - may have to juggle some wires a bit - if I can get one of these battery trays (http://www.stainlesstrays.com) in there I might make a go of it...
I have a dual Optima battery tray( for an FJ40) from the same folks in the link above and it is a superbly crafted product - I wonder if he could make ones for the Tacoma ?

[Boston Mangler]

I measured the battery area in the Tacoma yesterday and think I can get a group 31 in that same spot - may have to juggle some wires a bit - if I can get one of these battery trays (http://www.stainlesstrays.com) in there I might make a go of it...
I have a dual Optima battery tray( for an FJ40) from the same folks in the link above and it is a superbly crafted product - I wonder if he could make ones for the Tacoma ?

www.stainlesstrays.com is top notch stuff, had them in my FJ60! very nice!

[Desertdude]

I emailed Noel at Stainlesstrays.com about making trays for the Tacoma- he asked me for photos of the Tacoma battery tray - it looks like he might be interested in making them

I am wondering how different the trays are from 99 up?

We'll keep us posted

[BajaTaco]

DD, you mentioned putting a 31 in the same spot. Where are you referring to? I currently have one in the stock location, so it will work in that spot (at least on the 98-04) but requires a new hold-down bracket and longer cables. Also, you mentioned the stock tray for the Tacoma, but my '98 does not really have a tray. It just sits on a plastic "tray" that resembles a drip-pan, that sits on a sheetmetal shelf that is part of the front inside fender. I think I did measure this location for potentially putting two 34's side-by-side and if I recall, there wasn't enough room unless you got way too close to the oil dipstick, alternator, and radiator shroud.

[asteffes]

That's a lot of weight up front, either way you do it. Dual 34s would weigh about 100 pounds, while a single 31 would be around 80 pounds. I still need to investigate the under-body battery box idea, but alas I went condo shopping this weekend instead. :elkgrin:

[Desertdude]

Chris - I only have a group 34 ( yellow top) in the OEM battery tray ( plastic) ( I thought you did too)? I went to you cool write up and see what you have fab'ed

I am thinking of a group 31 in that spot but with a more solid SS tray

It looks a bit too tight for two grp 34's ... And the 04 has the ABS stuff on the pass side

[Mlachica]

Chris - I only have a group 34 ( yellow top) in the OEM battery tray ( plastic) ( I thought you did too)? I went to you cool write up and see what you have fab'ed

I am thinking of a group 31 in that spot but with a more solid SS tray

It looks a bit too tight for two grp 34's ... And the 04 has the ABS stuff on the pass side

You can put a group 31 or two group 34's in the stock location. Chris nicely put the optima group 31 and a guy from TTORA (Dick Foster) put two odyssey 1200mjt's side by side (rotated 90 deg) in the stock location. To fit the odysseys it required some fabbing and he may have had to move the fuse block slightly. The install wasn't too bad.

[Seeker]

Here's a pair of Group 34s in the stock location:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c276/mein_pappa/OriginalDualBattPlan1.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c276/mein_pappa/OriginalDualBattPlan2.jpg

As you can see, with a bit of fab work, and a shoehorn, it is possible to put two group 34s in the stock location. The inboard battery rubs on the radiator mount and they're a bit tight against the headlight, but if you got creative I'm sure neither problem is insurmountable.

Ultimately I decided not to go with this solution. I'm almost done building my battery-in-a-box in the bed of my pickup. Essentially an ammo can with the battery, fuse block, relay block, and solenoids built into it.

[BajaTaco]

Wow - a shoehorn it is. Now I see it can be done though - thanks for sharing the pics. I am assuming some kind of tray with bracing would need to be added to adequately support the inboard battery?

[Desertdude]

thanks for those photos man that is tight


I have a 31 ready to replace the grp 34 in the aux box in back of the truck ( second battery) - I am going to get the other 31 for the front ( starting battery) and call it done - I hope to get a slick SS tray for it

[Seeker]

Yes, you would definately want to build a better tray and anchor it not only to the top of the wheel well, but the side of the wheel well (under the tray) and the fender too. Also, there were two wires in under the lip of the fender that aren't visible which, if moved, would have allowed another 1/8" or 1/4" movementunder the lip of the fender.

[BajaTaco]

Thanks for the additional info.

DD, that plan of yours sound great.

[Seeker]

thanks for those photos man that is tight


I have a 31 ready to replace the grp 34 in the aux box in back of the truck ( second battery) - I am going to get the other 31 for the front ( starting battery) and call it done - I hope to get a slick SS tray for it
DD, are you going to use the 34 as a starting battery and move your stock wiring or just use it as a jumper battery and keep everything connected to the 31 in the stock location?

[Desertdude]

Right now I have a grp 34 in the starting batt & aux batt locations - I plan to ugrade this to the larger grp 31 in both locations - the grp 34 is a bit small for all the power I use while sitting still - I like to have available 110 with an invertor


... I like my power what can I say :rockon:

[Boston Mangler]

I use 2 Giant Group 27 Sears Die Hard Golds! (one is a standard one and one is the deep cycle RV one)

Both are over 1.5 years old and they still work like a champ and i abuse the hell out of em with a 1500watt inverter, fridge (sometimes 2) and even a Rice Cooker!!

[Icewalker]

Going back to the battery switch aspect of the install - I just got my blue sea switch yesterday - On the diagram it shows terminal 1, 2 and common and then there is terminal F1 and F2 on the switch? They show one as going to something on the alternator called field ? Anyone have any ideas what this is? I'm definitely challenged when it comes to vehicle wiring :)

TIA

Jeff

[Desertdude]

Which switch model? THIS ONE? (https://resources.myeporia.com/company_57/7963.pdf)

[Desertdude]

like the jpg below?

[Icewalker]

like the jpg below?

It's like that but has two additional terminals listed as F1 and F2? it's model 9003E? With AFD ?

Jeff

[njtaco]

IIRC, the field connections are to disable the alternator when switching between batteries. As you switch, the alt. is "shut off" so it is not damaged when the batteries are momentarily disconnected while the switch is making/breaking.

[Desertdude]

IIRC, the field connections are to disable the alternator when switching between batteries. As you switch, the alt. is "shut off" so it is not damaged when the batteries are momentarily disconnected while the switch is making/breaking.


according to the diagram this appears to be the case.


• AFD: Cut the field wire from the alternator to the voltage regulator; connect one end to F1, and the other end to F2.

>>> So, you would need to have a wiring diagram to suss out on your specific vehicle what color and where the wire is to cut <<<<


9002e AFD PDF diagram (https://resources.myeporia.com/company_57/6992.pdf)

:::

[njtaco]

Or don't switch the batteries while the engine is running...

[Beowulf]

So as it has been almost two years since the last post, I wanted to bring this thread back and check in for management unit reviews, Solar panel upgrades, and batteries selections.

[Beowulf]

Just got the latest issue of OJ and it has all the reviews of Management Systems anyone could want.