XJ Winch Bumper [Archive] - Expedition Portal

getlost4x4

01-08-2009, 04:46 PM

why would you want your winch in your bumper if you ever plan on using it? if you don't plan on using your winch, just hang a piece of cable with a hook out the fairlead.

if you use your winch, its much better to have it up where you can see how its spooling the cable, if it jams you can un-jam it without removing the whole bumper. you can service your winch, you can also make sure your cable is spooling correctly and won't bind up and break your winch.

arb bumpers are nice, but a little bit of a poser thing if you ask me. get one with the winch exposed, and enjoy your winch, a well designed winch bumper will have the winch exposed, and the mounting bolts inside the bumper to help deter theft.

my humble opinion. i use my winch a lot in the snow, i like being able to see what its doing.

Hi Gang!

I'm looking for a winch bumper for the XJ. I love the ARB bullbar combo and I'm wanting some thing that puts the winch "in" the bumper - I just can't spend a grand to do it!

Any ideas or links?

Many thanks

Rich

saburai

01-08-2009, 05:14 PM

why would you want your winch in your bumper if you ever plan on using it? if you don't plan on using your winch, just hang a piece of cable with a hook out the fairlead.

if you use your winch, its much better to have it up where you can see how its spooling the cable, if it jams you can un-jam it without removing the whole bumper. you can service your winch, you can also make sure your cable is spooling correctly and won't bind up and break your winch.

arb bumpers are nice, but a little bit of a poser thing if you ask me. get one with the winch exposed, and enjoy your winch, a well designed winch bumper will have the winch exposed, and the mounting bolts inside the bumper to help deter theft.

my humble opinion. i use my winch a lot in the snow, i like being able to see what its doing.

Great points! As a newcomer I hadn't thought of that...

DaJudge

01-08-2009, 05:57 PM

http://www.ajsoffroadarmor.com/

Call AJ. He builds an excellent bumper.

saburai

01-08-2009, 06:33 PM

http://www.ajsoffroadarmor.com/

Call AJ. He builds an excellent bumper.

Wow! Nice work and great price! I really like the design.
Too bad I'm on the east cost.
Some where between NY and FL would be better...

w_b

01-08-2009, 06:36 PM

XJ TrailBlazer Winch Bumper Package $640.00 (http://www.custom4x4fabrication.com/front_xj.html)

Rusty's Pre-Runner $350 (http://rustysoffroad.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=rustys&Product_Code=RA-PRE2-XJ&Category_Code=bum_rus)

Rock Hard $380 (http://rockhard4x4parts.com/XJ-frontbumper.html)

Rigid $460? (http://www.rigidco.com/FbW.htm)

Hansen Offroad $680 - $870 (http://www.hansonoffroad.com/index.php?cPath=25_46)

TNT Customs $490 (http://www.tntcustoms.com/page.asp?pageid=69)

MORE $550 (http://motionoffroad.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=11)

Nate's $380 (http://www.nates4x4.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=50)

This is by no means the complete list. There are others. Look at the picture of the bumper on Nate's site. See the long "ears" that attach the bumper to the frame rails of the XJ? If you ever plan on using your winch or using your front bumper as a recover point, make sure the bumper you select has a similar setup. I've read the "ears" have to go about 14" back to tie into where the frame is sleeved.

saburai

01-08-2009, 07:13 PM

crosbike

01-08-2009, 11:14 PM

http://www.ajsoffroadarmor.com/

Call AJ. He builds an excellent bumper.
i second aj. he is building me one right now and i live on the east coat.

DaJudge

01-09-2009, 04:19 PM

Wow! Nice work and great price! I really like the design.
Too bad I'm on the east cost.
Some where between NY and FL would be better...

He will ship it and it is not that much. I have one from him and I certainly didn't drive to Iowa to get it. :D

saburai

01-09-2009, 11:43 PM

He will ship it and it is not that much. I have one from him and I certainly didn't drive to Iowa to get it. :D

Spoke with AJ. Great guy. Shipping is reasonable. I'm pretty certain he will be building me a bumper;)

Thanks Guys!

Maximus Ram

01-10-2009, 01:29 AM

have ya checked e-bay. never know, may find a good deal.

cnskate

01-11-2009, 06:03 AM

[/quote]
This is by no means the complete list. There are others. Look at the picture of the bumper on Nate's site. See the long "ears" that attach the bumper to the frame rails of the XJ? If you ever plan on using your winch or using your front bumper as a recover point, make sure the bumper you select has a similar setup. I've read the "ears" have to go about 14" back to tie into where the frame is sleeved.[/QUOTE]

I'm a little skeptical of the massive frame tie-in type bumpers. An old body shop guy once told me that a even a light collision with that type of bumper can seriously tweak your frame, or unibody. I trust ARB's design. They have probably sold more than anyone else, and the Aussies offroad as a way of life.

saburai

01-11-2009, 11:14 AM

[/QUOTE]
I'm a little skeptical of the massive frame tie-in type bumpers. An old body shop guy once told me that a even a light collision with that type of bumper can seriously tweak your frame, or unibody. I trust ARB's design. They have probably sold more than anyone else, and the Aussies offroad as a way of life.[/QUOTE]

How do the ARB's tie in?
If they don't use some frame meat to attach, how can they hold up to year after year repeated extreme use?

I don't think that the stock bumper mounting locations were designed with recovery in mind.

I do think that you make a good point. There has to be a trade off between rigidity and crumple - ability.

Perhaps there are some here with impact/collision experiences who could give us some real world feed back.
Many thanks

Rich

w_b

01-11-2009, 05:18 PM

If you ever plan on using your winch or using your front bumper as a recover point, make sure the bumper you select has a similar setup. I've read the "ears" have to go about 14" back to tie into where the frame is sleeved.

I'm a little skeptical of the massive frame tie-in type bumpers. An old body shop guy once told me that a even a light collision with that type of bumper can seriously tweak your frame, or unibody. I trust ARB's design. They have probably sold more than anyone else, and the Aussies offroad as a way of life.
Skepticism is good. I believe there is a lot of misinformation out there from old guys in the business (whatever that business may be). Opinion does not always equate to an objective personal experience and one person's experience is probably not obtained from examination of the whole picture.

For example, a body shop guy sees a rig with a steel bumper come in that only has a light dent and a small deflection on the left-front corner. Upon further inspection he finds the frame has been tweaked from the impact. His conclusion may be the bumper caused the frame tweak. What he hasn't considered is this apparently light collision (apparent because there's not a lot of visible damage), with a stock bumper would have caused a foot and a half of intrusion into the left-front corner of the vehicle (which for insurance purposes, would total most vehicles).

Any bumper that is not specifically designed and made to collapse will transmit the energy of an impact to where ever the bumper is mounted. If that bumper is mounted strictly at the front of the frame, the force will be transmitted there. If the bumper is affixed to a longer length of the frame, the energy will be transferred over a greater distance and reduce the amount of energy, per square inch, over that distance.

You can argue that ARB designs their bumper to absorb energy from an impact and that may be true as they use a lighter material than most aftermarket heavy bumpers. The lighter metal would absorb some energy because it'll crush. I don't see the relationship between energy absorbency and mounting unless it's desirable to have the bumper ripped off in an accident. What I do see with a minimalist mount is directing more energy over a smaller area, causing more damage to that area.

Plus I've seen frame straighteners used on uni-bodies and I've seen pictures of an ARB front bumper pulled off during winching. (My experience...)

DaJudge

01-12-2009, 03:59 PM

As with everything there is a compromise. The tie-ins will affect the crumple zones of the "frame". However, the bumper will not pull off in a recovery situation. For every modification these type of things need to be weighed out. Personally I prefer to have confidence in the ability of my equipment to get me where I want to go and get me out of a bad situation (winch out) with confidence when needed.

I recommended AJ's bumper because I know from experience (mine and others) that it will hold up.

98dango

01-12-2009, 04:30 PM

on a Xj that dose not have a frame. Tie it in as much as possable. The fact of having a bumper there at all has just affected your crumple zone. The reason for crumple zones is a 5mph crash. This will happen a lot in off road situations. Its my experance with XJ that if you tie in the whole truck lasts longer. Also the sterring box is a week mount area and if you reinforce this with the bumper mount you cure a problem with a stronger truck. Yes in a on road crash your truck will be affected diffrently but so will what you hit. With a good bumper tied in correctly you may need less body work than the Honda you hit. In my opinion after a XJ will fair better in a crash with frame tie ins due to the fact this puts the stress farther back where the suspension mounts and the unibody is doubble wall there. I do have some body shop experance and a lot of hard core wheeling under my belt.

XJLI

01-12-2009, 04:34 PM

I'm a little skeptical of the massive frame tie-in type bumpers. An old body shop guy once told me that a even a light collision with that type of bumper can seriously tweak your frame, or unibody. I trust ARB's design. They have probably sold more than anyone else, and the Aussies offroad as a way of life.

Thats all fine and dandy, but you wont be skeptical when the ARB either rips out of your jeep during winching, or you realize it has no solid recovery points.and if you did yank on it hard it would just rip out anyway.

As with everything there is a compromise. The tie-ins will affect the crumple zones of the "frame". However, the bumper will not pull off in a recovery situation. For every modification these type of things need to be weighed out. Personally I prefer to have confidence in the ability of my equipment to get me where I want to go and get me out of a bad situation (winch out) with confidence when needed.

I recommended AJ's bumper because I know from experience (mine and others) that it will hold up.

bumpers (and other tow points) on XJs will rip out if not tied in properly. end of story. AJ knows this which is why his bumpers use those massive tie ins.

MTNTECH

01-16-2009, 03:50 AM

Thats all fine and dandy, but you wont be skeptical when the ARB either rips out of your jeep during winching, or you realize it has no solid recovery points.and if you did yank on it hard it would just rip out anyway.

bumpers (and other tow points) on XJs will rip out if not tied in properly. end of story. AJ knows this which is why his bumpers use those massive tie ins.

DaJudge and XJLI know what they are talking about, also check C-ROK http://www.c-rok.com/, the front end of a Cherokee requires re-enforcement to withstand winching.

IH8RDS

01-16-2009, 09:42 PM

Hmmm, I am curious if all you guys that talk about ARBs ripping off have actually seen it in person or actually witnesses this phenomenon? Or did you read it on line somewhere?

arb bumpers are nice, but a little bit of a poser thing if you ask me. get one with the winch exposed, and enjoy your winch, a well designed winch bumper will have the winch exposed, and the mounting bolts inside the bumper to help deter theft.

.

I never heard that poser comment before either. I prefer the enclosed design. Keeps it all tucked away for less drag and away from the elements. I don't know about you, but when I use my winch it is from inside the vehicle or behind an open door. I am never in sight of the winch spool when it is winding. The only time I am in front is when I am loosely spooling after use, and you can plainly see the spool through the two openings.

I have had my ARB for 6 years now and have done some pretty massive winching. I have pulled an 11K truck up an steep incline and allot of tough recoveries. The darn thing is still attached. :Wow1:

Jay S.

01-16-2009, 11:39 PM

I like my ARB....but I wanted to run a Warn 9.5XP and was told it's too big to fit, so I dropped down to a XD9000 and love it! If I was going to do it over, I might consider the Warn front bumper with the brush guard and run a Powerplant winch with the air compressor built-in.

Purple People Eater

01-20-2009, 06:08 PM

Nates4x4 dot com is having a big sale right now. The slimline recessed winch bumper is only $300 right now. I saw the sale and thought of this thread.

ExpoMike

01-20-2009, 08:47 PM

Nates4x4 dot com is having a big sale right now. The slimline recessed winch bumper is only $300 right now. I saw the sale and thought of this thread.

Man, that's an awesome price. Wish I had the cash and I would buy that one and sell my current bumper.

IH8RDS

01-20-2009, 08:50 PM

That is a good price for allot of bumper. :Wow1:

saburai

01-20-2009, 09:30 PM

Nates4x4 dot com is having a big sale right now. The slimline recessed winch bumper is only $300 right now. I saw the sale and thought of this thread.

First I want to say thanks for looking out for me:bowdown:
On the surface it looks like a geat deal...

I think its to good to be true!

I did a little research and it seem from what I garner on the forums, that Nate makes a good bumper. It also seem that he, to put it lightly has some customer service issues.

If one of you knows better please let us know.

I'm just trying to watch out for me and everyone else here...

I hope it o.k. to link to other forums...

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=981418
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=910923&highlight=Nates4x4
http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/showthread.php?p=1485950#post1485950
This last one convinced me that I wouldn't risk it. Nate responds to one of the posters. He makes a blanket statement that "returns are easy" WTF? That should not be an issue if you stand behind your work...
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=519168
Price is great, stuff looks to be pretty good but with some mention of misalignment and such... Timely delivery and having a good rapport with your customers is paramount!

I think I go with AJ. I'm not a customer and he returned calls and emails offering advice and sending pictures very promptly

w_b

01-21-2009, 12:30 AM

...
http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/showthread.php?p=1485950#post1485950
This last one convinced me that I wouldn't risk it. Nate responds to one of the posters. He makes a blanket statement that "returns are easy" WTF? That should not be an issue if you stand behind your work...
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=519168
Price is great, stuff looks to be pretty good but with some mention of misalignment and such... Timely delivery and having a good rapport with your customers is paramount!...
While I agree customer service is critical, and while I don't disagree with your decision to go with AJ's, I read the threads you linked to, some of which are over a year old. The one complaint about misalignment appears to have been due to a transition to plasma. Stuff happens. The 'returns are easy' posting was an answer to another post where the guy wanted to return his bumper. While there were negative posts, there were positive posts too -- in those linked threads.

The lack of communication is a valid and real concern. I guess he could hire someone to answer the e-mails and the phone. But then he'd have to pay their salary, and pay all the other unseen costs the state and feds require an employer to pay for an employee. Wonder how much that would drive up the cost of his products...

Like Nate said, "Going to work at 7am and coming home at 9pm every night unfortunately does not provide me with a lot of time..." There's a balance, and it appears he's not making it in the customer service department, but a solid product for a very reasonable price may be worth the wait for some.

Oh, and in my limited experience of bolting on aftermarket accessories (even from companies that enjoy a very good reputation), it is rarely a plug and play operation. Some modification has been required every time. If there are differences from one side of my XJ to the other (and there is) I'm willing to bet my XJ is different than your XJ is different than the XJ the manufacturer used as a model to build his bumper, lift etc.

I hope this makes sense.

saburai

01-21-2009, 04:32 AM

Sure it makes sense!

On the other hand...

AJ answers his phone or calls right back and apologizes for missing your call. He is a small shop too, but some how he manages to be prompt and respectful!
Bad business practices are just that, your customer pays you bills and you need to treat them as such.

I called and left a message for Nate, lets see when he gets back to me.

There are many more post out there and they are mostly negitive.

Apparently he just slaps a shipping label on an unpainted bumper w/o any packaging...

A lot of folks getting jerked around about when their stuff will get there - if he is good enough to even reply to his customers inquiries!

The $300 winch bumper - if he could sell it with even a remotely accurate estimate of delivery is certainly a nice deal.

On the other hand at his regular price of $495, when compared to AJ's bumper at $490...

Well, I know what I would do...

Nate's:
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd79/badhawk697/Jeep%20XJ/Natesbumper.jpg

AJ's:
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd79/badhawk697/Jeep%20XJ/AJsbumper.jpg

IXNAYXJ

01-21-2009, 05:42 AM

I've run an AJ's (actually one of his prototype XJ designs from waay back in the day) and it was great. I have a Moab 4x4 Outpost bumper now, though, and it is superior in every respect. For me, approach angle is a major issue and the M40 bumper is unsurpassed in this.

As to the ARB, I installed one on a friends rig because that's what he's always wanted. On the first trip out, he tagged a small rock and it puched the bumper into his corner marker and shattered it. Not a fan.

Here's a pic of the Moab bumper:

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/113.jpg

-----Matt-----

Purple People Eater

01-21-2009, 06:51 AM

I've gone Nate's before, and I'll go with him again. I was told it saved my life:

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/bobby51987/Jeep%20RIP/th_DSCF0369.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/bobby51987/Jeep%20RIP/?action=view&current=DSCF0369.jpg) http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/bobby51987/Jeep%20RIP/th_DSCF0379.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/bobby51987/Jeep%20RIP/?action=view&current=DSCF0379.jpg) http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/bobby51987/Jeep%20RIP/th_DSCF0372.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/bobby51987/Jeep%20RIP/?action=view&current=DSCF0372.jpg)

And when I was dealing with him, I never had an issue with customer service. He replied to both of my emails within 48 hours, apologizing for the delay in response due to highly increased business. I can't suggest it OVER aj's, since I have never owned any of his products or dealt with him business-wise, but I was extremely happy with Nate's.

Root Moose

01-21-2009, 12:46 PM

As to the ARB, I installed one on a friends rig because that's what he's always wanted. On the first trip out, he tagged a small rock and it puched the bumper into his corner marker and shattered it.

I've seen the same kind of thing happen. A Disco dropped its nose on a rock and the whole bumper moved independently of the rest of the truck. It didn't wreck anything on the truck to my knowledge but it shouldn't have done that. Hence my wanting to beef up mine.

OverlandZJ

01-25-2009, 06:17 PM

I'v also seen the ARB bumper damaged first hand. It's a bumper i wouldnt consider if rockcrawling was your thing. For Overlanding it seems very adequate.

AJ has a great reputation for his customer service and his products are priced well for the quality of his product. My opinion is based on reading owner reports.

Nates. He sells on ebay alot as well. Owners seem satisfied with his product once received. I'm awaiting one i have to install on a friend of a friends rig.

Custom 4x4. I had their bumper on my previous rig.. for about a month. Consists of a decent designed winch tray with thinner material that does not hold up well to trail obstructions.

Hanson. I run this bumper now. Solid, but mounting could use improvement. Mine will get this shortly.

I think AJ's would be my choice considering your desire for location and vendor feedback. Thats if i could get over the "prerunner" style bar, not a fan of that... but it's just cosmetics right?

saburai

01-26-2009, 04:02 AM

Thanks!

Not a big fan of the prerunner style myself...
A.J. said he could do what ever I wanted - I'm thinking a brush guard style al la ARB or my Warrior:

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd79/badhawk697/Jeep%20XJ/JEEP1.jpg

Would look great with AJ's Phat XJ winch bumper.
Here is a picture of the Phat bumper:

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd79/badhawk697/Jeep%20XJ/prod_phatxj06-lg-1.jpg

Picture it with a full sized brush guard instead of the little bar.
I think it might just do the trick:)

IH8RDS

01-26-2009, 04:15 AM

I like that phat bumper. It would look good with the bars.

Bill Beers

01-26-2009, 03:39 PM

I've always liked the Warn one:

Link. (http://www.central4wd.com/inventorydetail.aspx?page=id|43166;folder|5732)

http://www.gowarn.com/images/products/Cherokee_Bumper.jpg

w_b

01-26-2009, 03:59 PM

...Here is a picture of the Phat bumper...

I like that phat bumper...

I've Yahoo! searched for "phat bumper" and I have no idea what bumper this is you all are talking about.

XJLI

01-26-2009, 05:37 PM

I've Yahoo! searched for "phat bumper" and I have no idea what bumper this is you all are talking about.

http://ajsoffroadarmor.com/products-frontbumpers.php

w_b

01-26-2009, 05:46 PM

http://ajsoffroadarmor.com/products-frontbumpers.php

Ah. Thanks. Thought it was a make, didn't realize it was a model.

cnskate

01-27-2009, 06:10 AM

I like the Warn one too. I'm sure it's made well like all of their equipment, but dang, it's heavy like 210 lbs with the brush guard. That's almost twice the ARB.

IH8RDS

01-27-2009, 12:25 PM

I like the Warn one too. I'm sure it's made well like all of their equipment, but dang, it's heavy like 210 lbs with the brush guard. That's almost twice the ARB.
Holy smokes that's heavy

Root Moose

01-27-2009, 02:04 PM

Is that with or without the winch?

cnskate

01-27-2009, 11:25 PM

Thats without the winch :Wow1:

IXNAYXJ

01-28-2009, 03:48 AM

Yes, the Warn is heavier than the ARB...the ARB is made of tissue paper. The Warn is also too big, heavy and expensive. Any of the smaller builders are superior IMHO. At the top of the heap is Moab 4x4 Outpost.

http://www.moab4x4outpost.com/servlet/the-5/Cherokee-Front-Bumper-w-fdsh-Winch/Detail

Here's a shot showing the approach angle:

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/IXNAYEvans2.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/TaterSalad2.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/168-1.jpg

-----Matt-----

Purple People Eater

01-30-2009, 10:36 PM

There are simple differences in the ARB bumper and the slim one you use, IXNAY. Each are probably very good at what they are designed to do, but alas, are designed to do different things. Yours provides a superior approach angle, and is probably tough as nails and can handle hitting a rock pretty hard. Two very important factors in crawling rocks.

What the ARB Bullbar is designed for is protecting the body from brush and animal strikes, as well as provide a place for auxiliary lighting. Should you put it on your Jeep, try to avoid slamming the front of the vehicle into a big rock.

stomperxj

02-01-2009, 01:22 AM

Not everybody is into draggin their junk across the rocks all the time... I'm pretty partial to the ARB style myself but I also could not justify $1k for a bumper.... so I built my own:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/stomperxj/ARB%20Copy%20Winch%20Bumper/mini-IMG_0764.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/stomperxj/98%20XJ/sm-00011.jpg

I've used the winch several times with no issues....

saburai

02-01-2009, 02:02 AM

Outstanding!
Care to build one for me?

T&A-XJ

02-01-2009, 03:54 AM

I vote Moab 4x4 outpost as well. A higher clearance bumper can benefit the modest of built rigs.

I too like the ARB style but having sustained damage to my jeep due to its flimsyness, I will take function over style.

Root Moose

02-01-2009, 04:26 AM

The Moab outpost bumper with some kind of a ARB style grille protection would be the cat's ....

T&A-XJ

02-01-2009, 05:02 AM

The Moab outpost bumper with some kind of a ARB style grille protection would be the cat's ....

There just so happens to be whats left of an ARB bumper hangin in my garage for this very purpose, someday it might happen...

cshontz

02-01-2009, 12:49 PM

If you want something REALLY stout, I recommend getting a grille guard by Manik. These puppies are tough!

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/cardana24/DSC_0240.jpg

GTABurnout

02-03-2009, 11:20 PM

Nates is out of Phx, AZ is that correct?

Purple People Eater

02-03-2009, 11:41 PM

Nates is out of Phx, AZ is that correct?

No, Midland, MI.

GTABurnout

02-06-2009, 02:24 PM

Therer is a guy who sells bumpers on craigslist out of Phx. Has any one tried his stuff?

w_b

02-07-2009, 04:18 AM

Therer is a guy who sells bumpers on craigslist out of Phx. Has any one tried his stuff?

If this (http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/pts/1023066924.html) is the guy's ad:

Did a little search, found this thread (http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/showthread.php?t=11875), he goes by Tuffbumpers on Arizona Virtual Jeep Club (http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/index.php). The thread has a little feedback in it. Looks like he uses 1/8" steel tubing. I couldn't find where he mentioned if the recovery points were tabs welded on both sides of tube or just the front. He does say he uses only the stock bumper mounting points. I'm not sure that's ideal for a winch bumper...

Here's another thread on a different forum:
http://www.higherground4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1341 (http://www.higherground4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1341)

He lists a phone number, a Paypal account and an email address. I searched a forum and found his name. Another search found a residential address but I couldn't find anything business related.