Apparently legitimate new Defender information

[Jonathan Hanson]

http://rovering.squarespace.com/journal/2006/8/22/2007-land-rover-defender-revealed.html

[Brian McVickers]

:drool: :drool:
Nice find!
I wonder if they will ever make it to the US?

[Dmarchand]

Nope.

[bigreen505]

Ditto on the drool!

I doubt we will ever see it for two reasons. First being the air bag and crash testing, second being that Ford would likely view it as competition to thier trucks. Same reason GM refused to allow Saab to build an all wheel drive wagon even though they had a decent system that has been used in their rally cars since the mid 1980s.

[ZooJunkie]

Ultimately SAAB created the 92-X a marriage of Subaru WRX wagen and SAAB styling...

As for the LR....:chowtime:


I would love to own one!! Too bad it will never be imported to the USA. :(

[Dmarchand]

Well, the cool thing I think about the redesign is that for Defender owners, the new hood design will most likely allow us to fit larger diesels like the powerstroke 3.0. Right now, their is no way that engine will fit in a Defender. And with the 2.8 pwerstroke being discontinued in a few years, this will extend the options we have to keep our trucks running.

[Scott Brady]

Nice! Stephanie was just saying last night that she would love to have a D90 (Red with Black Top) someday... We might get the chance.

http://thelandroverchronicle.com/2007Defender9.jpg

[BajaTaco]

:drool: :drool:
Nice find!
I wonder if they will ever make it to the US?

I just got this email yesterday, from Michael Green of West Coast British (http://www.offroadexperience.com/wcb/) ...

Vehicle Review: Land Rover Defender
Back in North America in 2007!
It appears the rumors are true: The legendary Land Rover Defender will be re-introduced to the North American market in 2007 (as a 2008 model).
How different will it be? For starters, it will have the requisite air bags - a major cause for it being pulled back in 1997. It will have to be easier to assemble - the previous style was largely built by hand. And it will have a newer, more modern body design on a steel frame.
More good news: Short-wheelbase, long-wheelbase, and soft-top versions are in the works, although it is still unclear how many of these versions might be bound for North America .

The downside? No V-8's are projected. Gasoline engines will come from Ford: a direct-injection four with variable timing, a 3.0-liter Duratec V-6, and for the U.S. only, a 3.8-liter V-6. Peugeot will supply a 2.7-liter turbodiesel V-6 for Europe (though the in-the-know Rover enthusiast crowd here in the States has already started the grumbling about no TDi diesel - so perhaps their jawwing will not fall on deaf ears.
Land Rover's managing director, Matthew Taylor said, "The Defender is important. It is one of the few genuine auto icons. Our challenge now is to see how we can successfully take it forward and make it a 21st Century icon"

As far as being easier to assemble, Land Rover is moving to simplify it platforms from four to two. (60 percent of the new Discovery, for instance, is constructed by automation and it's rumored that Ford wants the same level of assembly automation in use for the new Defender.) As such, Automotive News reports that the next Defender will use Land Rover's new T5 platform architecture, the same body-on-chassis platform used for the new Discovery 3 / LR3 (http://www.roverparts.com/VehicleReviews/LR3-Discovery.cfm) and upcoming Range Stormer or Range Rover Sport (http://www.roverparts.com/VehicleReviews/Range-Stormer.cfm) (the newest mini-Range Rover slated for upcoming release.)
Land Rover sells about 27,000 Defenders a year to the rest of the world. It's high time it set its sights on North America again, where the mighty Defender's legendary off-road prowess will be put to good use.

[Brian McVickers]

Wow this is great and exciting news! If it is in fact true and not just rumor.
I would love to see Defenders back in the US

I do have one concern however:


It's high time it set its sights on North America again, where the mighty Defender's legendary off-road prowess will be put to good use.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

In other areas of the world the Land Rover is seen and sold as a work horse with reasonable pricing, D90 for $20K new. In the US they have marketed themselves into the luxury auto market to some extent. The used D90s have been selling for 30K+, and if you see one in a dealer it is usually $40K+ for a used 10+ year old vehicle. So my concern is that they will be using this "legendary...prowess" in thier marketing and their pricing and could very well price it far out of reach of most people who would actually use it as designed to be used. It would also be a shame if they do not offer a diesel!

Very very exciting however it turns out!
Even if the new Defender is overpriced, perhaps it will drive the cost of used Defenders down.:sombrero:

[Jonathan Hanson]

That would be just too cool. I certainly hope they offer a U.S. diesel if it all comes to pass. And a 110. And a 110 pickup. And . . . After all, this is a "new" Defender, so there should be no trouble about the "exclusive" 1000 110s imported in 1993.

[Brian McVickers]

http://www.landyonline.co.za/specs/defender2007.htm

http://www.thelandroverchronicles.com/


More info

[ZooJunkie]

I hope it's priced affordable! I need a family mover in 2-3 years!

[Brian McVickers]

Ok, I asked my undisclosed Land Rover informant contact who works at an undisclosable official Land Rover facility, and here is the response I recieved to my request for confimation on the 2008 Defender:


"Sometime around 2010. It will be the D-90 and perhaps the D-110. Doubtful we’ll get the D-130. We’ll get a petrol motor first then MAYBE a diesel."


Ok, I hope we get them sooner but either way it will take me at least 3 years to save my pennies anyway!;)

[Wanderlusty]

This would be about the only thing that would steer me away from the new JK Wrangler. Though I fear that as mcvick said, due to the perception of a luxo-vehicle, they will probably be at inflated prices that are inflated just for the sake of it.

Good thing I have a couple years to sit back and ponder it some and wait to see what happens.

If these things hit the shores much higher than mid 30's...then I am out. Here's hoping they price them reasonable.

[+ d]

:iagree:

Yup, the pessimist in me says they'll bring them in and pimp them out so only rap stars and frat boy developers can afford them...think G500/G55.

Seeing all these Gelaendewagens with dubs makes me sad (:( )
Seeing a D90/110 with dubs might make me homicidal (:ar15: )

[CLynn85]

My only hope is that a reintroduction would help lower the prices on the old D90's.

[flyingwil]

Wow! Way too cool. :wings:

[Blair G]

I just got this email yesterday, from Michael Green of West Coast British (http://www.offroadexperience.com/wcb/) ...

Vehicle Review: Land Rover Defender
Back in North America in 2007!
It appears the rumors are true: The legendary Land Rover Defender will be re-introduced to the North American market in 2007 (as a 2008 model).
How different will it be? For starters, it will have the requisite air bags - a major cause for it being pulled back in 1997. It will have to be easier to assemble - the previous style was largely built by hand. And it will have a newer, more modern body design on a steel frame.
More good news: Short-wheelbase, long-wheelbase, and soft-top versions are in the works, although it is still unclear how many of these versions might be bound for North America .

The downside? No V-8's are projected. Gasoline engines will come from Ford: a direct-injection four with variable timing, a 3.0-liter Duratec V-6, and for the U.S. only, a 3.8-liter V-6. Peugeot will supply a 2.7-liter turbodiesel V-6 for Europe (though the in-the-know Rover enthusiast crowd here in the States has already started the grumbling about no TDi diesel - so perhaps their jawwing will not fall on deaf ears.
Land Rover's managing director, Matthew Taylor said, "The Defender is important. It is one of the few genuine auto icons. Our challenge now is to see how we can successfully take it forward and make it a 21st Century icon"

As far as being easier to assemble, Land Rover is moving to simplify it platforms from four to two. (60 percent of the new Discovery, for instance, is constructed by automation and it's rumored that Ford wants the same level of assembly automation in use for the new Defender.) As such, Automotive News reports that the next Defender will use Land Rover's new T5 platform architecture, the same body-on-chassis platform used for the new Discovery 3 / LR3 (http://www.roverparts.com/VehicleReviews/LR3-Discovery.cfm) and upcoming Range Stormer or Range Rover Sport (http://www.roverparts.com/VehicleReviews/Range-Stormer.cfm) (the newest mini-Range Rover slated for upcoming release.)
Land Rover sells about 27,000 Defenders a year to the rest of the world. It's high time it set its sights on North America again, where the mighty Defender's legendary off-road prowess will be put to good use.



I wish I could say that I was excited about the news of the Defender coming back to the USA. The sad news is that the current level of quality coming out of Land Rover/Ford is horrible. Fit and finish, body detail and rust problems have plauged the Land Rover line up in Europe. The thinking that they will base alot of the production ideas on the LR3 is evan more frightening. The LR3 is the lowest rated SUV in the market. How do they think they are going to compete with the marks that are currently for sale. I hate to say it, but many of the current jeeps and some of the prospective jeep models that are going to be produced will kick the **** out of the LR models.
With the current line up of motors they are anticipating, give up on the idea of finding spares in 3rd world countries. Or a few years down the road when they realize they aren't selling the amount that makes them profitable.
I have loved Land Rovers ever since I saw my first one while living in Argentina. Since then, I always have had one(most of the time more) in some form or another. It killed me that when my sister asked me about buying the LR3 that I had to recommend not getting it. She bought one anyway, so I will have to see first hand how it does. I hope for their sake it does OK.Since the dealership is 2 hours away it should make for some interesting towing.
I hope they prove me wrong.
Blair

[Jonathan Hanson]

Blair, this is a persistent situation, and one that doesn't often get addressed honestly by either "side."

It's true that Land Rover's QC is in the garbage. No one can reasonably deny that. I often hear the argument, "Oh, they're only unreliable if you just drive them on the road. The harder you use them, the more reliable they are." C'mon. And yes, I know there are Disco owners out there with 200,000 miles on their trucks and not one visit to the dealer. But we all know that's statistically a fraction.

The New York Times recently published a graph of vehicle makes according to long-term reliability. Land Rover was so far off to the left that a friend quippped, "It's like a class picture and Land Rover is the kid with really bad B.O."

Many of the problems experienced by LR owners seem to be ancillaries such as power window, lock, and mirror systems and sophisticated ABS and traction control systems. The simpler Defenders seem to do better than the Discovery/Range Rover models. But there's also no doubt that all Land Rovers suffer more than their share of early major component failures such as transmissions, and degrade generally faster than they should. When I read about East Coast Rovers doing a frame-up "restoration" on a ten-year-old Defender 90, I can only shake my head.

However, and it's a huge however, Land Rovers instill an enormous amount of customer loyalty, and this can't all be attributed to image. The fact is that when Land Rovers work they work better than just about anything else on the road - as you obviously know. They are inevitably in the forefront of developing new technology. Range Rovers had all-coil suspension in 1970 - it took Toyota over 20 years to climb on that bus. There is no manufacturer better at combining comfortable accommodation with true off-road ability. That might be why so many owners are willing to put up with the problems.

But I don't understand why LR under Ford has not been able to improve - except that they keep adding more and more complex systems. It's as if they're trying to get out of the hole they're in by digging another hole next to it and filling in the first hole with dirt from the next one they're digging themselves into . . .

It could be done. Jaguar did it, accomplishing one of the most spectacular turnarounds in reliability in automotive history. But I don't know what it will take to spur it.

I've often said, if only Land Rover could subcontract Toyota to build their vehicles, they'd own the market.

[upcruiser]

Cool to hear its coming to the states, but I fear a stratospheric price of admission for these in any configuration.

[Beowulf]

I think Ford will bring these in to be direct competition for the new Jeeps. To do that they will have to be priced below $40k fully kitted.

[stevenmd]

I often hear the argument, "Oh, they're only unreliable if you just drive them on the road. The harder you use them, the more reliable they are."
That is actually something that rings true but then again, it could be related to the fact that people who offroad their landies tend to take better care of their vehicle's mechanics.

[gjackson]

I have also heard this rumor direct from someone who went to the line in Solihull and said that it had restarted and was putting out Defenders with stronger bulkheads and doors (the 2 things needed for DOT registration). Also said it was the full line: 90s, 110s and 130s. And they were getting diesels, in this case the duratorq from the ford transit van (to go with the 6 speed ford transit transmission).

Hope it is true. Further hope that they release a rubicon competitor with lockers.

cheers

[devinsixtyseven]

Hope it is true. Further hope that they release a rubicon competitor with lockers.I hope it will work well with chrome spinny dubs.

Any pricing information yet? I remain skeptical that this will be an affordable alternative to anything currently available, regardless how well it performs. I have never seen a late-model Gelandewagon offroad, whether this is because the ticket price overrules capability, or because I imagine the average buyer at that price abhors dirt :confused:.

I hope they are priced like any other Ford...tho I'd rather have an "original", like the one from TGMBC :).

-Sean

[pwc]

I hear they will come with a warp core and photon torpedos.

So is there any corroberating evidence here, from another source? The other links said nothin about Defender in the US in 2007. All I've ever seen is the change to the line they are making (that everyone who wants the world to never change growns about) in 2010 and the possible reintroductiont then.

[Dmarchand]

The little reality voice in my head won't stop...

No way are they going to bring them back and if they do, they will be over $40K.

I know it's a hot topic and all. But look at where the brand is today in the states. Luxo image machines based on some symblance of nostalgia. The only qualified reason to bring the defender here is simply to rekindle that nostalgia. They would never be able to sell them in quantities that would justify the expenses. Look at the numbers from 10+ years ago. They would face the same problems they did then, today in our market.

Plus, the existing brand image or perceived brand image to offroaders, those most likely to buy, would not fly. Most perceive the LR brand as high cost and poor quality. Like it or not, brand lovers of Toys and Jeeps are not going to jump ship if they come ashore. Really, only those of us with vested interest in LR's today would buy a new defender model here. Even then, many of the older model rover owners are going to wait for second hand, devalued "new" defenders.

I just don't see it.

[gjackson]

I didn't post up when I first heard about it because there have been so many rumors that have gone before. My source is somewhat reliable, but don't bank on it until you see them at the dealerships!

The Land Rover rumor will is almost as reliable as the cars themselves!! :snorkel:

cheers

[jingram]

Like it or not, brand lovers of Toys and Jeeps are not going to jump ship if they come ashore. Really, only those of us with vested interest in LR's today would buy a new defender model here.

I'm not so sure I agree. If it was priced competitively with the JK then I think it would sell to the masses. The minute that they start pricing it upwards of the Jeep, it will not. The reality is that an entry level defender should be priced like an entry level JK, right around 20k, with them topping out near 30k.

Will LR America move this upmarket, almost certainly, and then wonder why the product failed in the marketplace.

Will Ford push this downmarket to compete with the Jeep? I wouldn't count on it anytime soon with the financial hardships they are dealing with. Ironic considering how DC can't produce enough JKs yet the rest of their product line is sitting on the lot.

Hell, if Ford even rebranded the vehicle and used slightly different sheet metal to move it downmarket, I think they would have a huge hit on their hands. The Ford competitor to the Jeep. Expedition guys would jump on it and so would your average offroader Ford lover who has no real platform to work from these days.

All conjecture in the end. I am not holding my breath on this one.

[DBS311]

If Ford can't even bring back the Bronco to compete with the Jeep, FJ Cruiser, Xterra, etc. market then I don't see them bringing the Defender back at the 20K-30K pricepoint. Bronco lovers have been begging Ford for years to no avail.

My guess is they will take the G500 route. Talk about how it was a military vehicle, legendary off road, etc. and then sell it for 60+K. Then again, if it does come with a warp core and photon torps, it might be worth the higher price. Add in a food replicator and you wouldn't even have to pack food or water for extended travel.

[Dmarchand]

I'm not so sure I agree. If it was priced competitively with the JK then I think it would sell to the masses. The minute that they start pricing it upwards of the Jeep, it will not. The reality is that an entry level defender should be priced like an entry level JK, right around 20k, with them topping out near 30k.

Will LR America move this upmarket, almost certainly, and then wonder why the product failed in the marketplace.

Will Ford push this downmarket to compete with the Jeep? I wouldn't count on it anytime soon with the financial hardships they are dealing with. Ironic considering how DC can't produce enough JKs yet the rest of their product line is sitting on the lot.
.

I hear you, and that is really my point. Like it or not, the defender is considered a premium product due to the brand image. And while those of us who wheel evaluate the rig on capability, etc, Joe consumer is looking at the brand value. LR's brand value is in luxury (or some resemblance of). If the d-90 retailed for $34K and the 110 for $42K back in '93, we are talking 60K easy for a new 110 stateside.

[JMcD]

Put me on the list for the first 110 pickup with a diesel. We all need to grumble out loud to whomever will listen about Ford even considering not to put a diesel in the Defender. With fuel prices where they are, diesel is the obvious choice.

[gary in ohio]

GREAT NEWS, Now all the old D90 owners can go buy new and I might finally be able to afford and old D90.

[66Landy]

These are the three reasons I believe we will never see a new Defender here in the States again, unless it a "used new" refurbished model from Canada or the UK. Ford is so broke right now, they can barely market their money makers, let alone a limited niche market vehicle with a poor prior sales history. The F150 doesn't need more competitors than GMC, Dodge, Nissan and Toyota, especially not from Mother Ford herself. Have you been in a Land Rover Dealership lately? The Range Rover Sport is where the marque is headed, a completely different image of canyon charging than the Defender would portray! Too broke, too much competition and too stodgy! Ford will never do it!

I say we find a private british LR garage and convince them to refurbish the 1983 models at a decent price and just bring those over with diesel engines so no one has to worry about state/fed (EPA, DOT, NHTSA, state bodies) regulations again! Why wait for Ford to import them, lets do it ourselves!:rolleyes:

[stevenmd]

Carey,
Check out this site: http://www.roverpartsused.com/

[66Landy]

I've come across these guys before and gave them a call. Their prices seemed okay on the site and then got higher on the phone because the web wasn't "updated". Also, in one of my searches I came across a site where the business was being sold and I thought twice about giving my money to one owner and trying to get my product out of another.

If anyone has dealt with this company and I've gotten the completely wrong impression, please share your experiences.

I'm thinking of bringing in a '92 or '93 110 to Canada this year or next (15 years old) and then using it to re-build a throw-away 109. With pictures of a tear-down and re-build and receipts for the various parts it will be okay. I'll just look for a '92 or '93 with a replacement chassis and then not all of the numbers will match which will make the "re-build" easier to believe. Even with the $2,500 shipping cost, it will still be cheaper than buying a clapped out NAS '93 110.


However, should Ford do the unthinkable and import them again, I want one with a warranty and a diesel! :D

[Scott Brady]

However, should Ford do the unthinkable and import them again, I want one with a warranty and a diesel! :D

You and me both :)

[mightymike]

Didn't I see a picture where someone was holding a printout from the LR dealer with all the warranty work they had done on their rig and it stretched from floor to ceiling? I assume if it was warranty work it was fixed under warranty, but that was still a pretty long sheet of paper....

[Scott Brady]

Yeah, that was my DII. :) It was a little "quirky"

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery/Disco_repair_log.jpg

I will own another Rover though, but most likely a Series Rover or a Defender.

[craig]

If the Defender came back I'd expect it to be positioned to compete with the Hummer and Mercedes G Wagon rather than the Jeep Rubicon. A rebadged Defender sure would make a sweet Bronco though. :)

Craig

[craig]

Yeah, that was my DII. :) It was a little "quirky"

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery/Disco_repair_log.jpg

I will own another Rover though, but most likely a Series Rover or a Defender.

Dang Scott. That's a lot of paperwork. They gave up on mine... it has a new shortblock. LOL.

Craig