Snorkel Wars

[Martinjmpr]

I can't see how a snorkel would void the warranty but driving into a big pool of water might ;)

[mauricio_28]

Not here, apparently. I have yet to read the fine print, but the guy who sold me my Navara at the Nissan dealeship told me a snorkel would void the engine warranty. Likewise, a suspension lift would void the drive-train warranty. He actually has an interest in NOT telling me this, since I get my after-market stuff through him.

[cruiseroutfit]

Not here, apparently. I have yet to read the fine print, but the guy who sold me my Navara at the Nissan dealeship told me a snorkel would void the engine warranty. Likewise, a suspension lift would void the drive-train warranty. He actually has an interest in NOT telling me this, since I get my after-market stuff through him.

There are laws here in the US that prevent blanket warranty voiding like that. Now the dealer must be able to prove that said part directly caused the warranty failure in question. So in the case of the snorkel/motor, if you throw a rod they have case against you.

[Martinjmpr]

There are laws here in the US that prevent blanket warranty voiding like that. Now the dealer must be able to prove that said part directly caused the warranty failure in question. So in the case of the snorkel/motor, if you throw a rod they have case against you.

Yeah but if your engine ingests water and throws a rod, that's not a warranty repair anyway. That's like slamming into a tree and damaging the radiator - it's not like you can file a warranty claim for that (although there's no reason you couldn't file an insurance claim.)

Wouldn't Comprehensive insurance cover the thrown rod, though?

[cruiseroutfit]

Yeah but if your engine ingests water and throws a rod, that's not a warranty repair anyway. That's like slamming into a tree and damaging the radiator - it's not like you can file a warranty claim for that (although there's no reason you couldn't file an insurance claim.)

I guess I'm not following you?? All I said is the simple addition of an aftermarket part or component doesn't blanket void the entire warranty. Thats not to say it makes every potential engine failure a shoe-in warranty claim. If you fill your motor full of water, run it without oil or run it into a tree, they are likely to deny your warrant. But if your motor loses a bearing and subsequently throws a rod, they can't deny the claim based on the presence of a snorkel alone.


Wouldn't Comprehensive insurance cover the thrown rod, though?

If it happened as part of an accident, sure. If a bearing fails, no.

[goodtimes]

There are laws here in the US that prevent blanket warranty voiding like that. Now the dealer must be able to prove that said part directly caused the warranty failure in question. So in the case of the snorkel/motor, if you throw a rod they have case against you.

While that may be true by the letter of the law....reality is very different. The law states that they must prove the modification was the cause of the component failure. But the court system says they are innocent until proven guilty.

You modify your vehicle, then take it in for a [legit] warranty repair. They deny the warranty claim. You refuse to pay for it. You argue back and forth, but in the end, they still refuse the claim....and they have your vehicle (at worst), or you have a broken vehicle. What else do you have? Grounds for a lawsuit? Sure.

Hire a lawyer, jump through the hoops, pay for a rental car for the next 18 months while the law suit works its way through the system. They just keep filing motions, which drives up the $$$ you owe to your lawyer (because you have to respond). This keeps on going until either you or the dealership are broke. Wanna guess who goes broke first? Once you are broke and don't have a lawyer, you miss a hearing or two and the case gets tossed...now you are broke and still don't have your vehicle fixed.




Welcome to reality...

:)

[madizell]

Innocent until proven guilty is a criminal law concept, not a concept that plays in civil liability. If you had to litigate a warranty issue it would be a matter of tort, where the claimant has a prima facia burden of making a plausible case, and the defendant has the burden of proving otherwise.

Plus, I seriously doubt that the dealer would hold the car during litigation. You could do that if the bill is high enough and you refuse up front to pay anything, but in this instance, your case would be the same, and you would get your vehicle back, if you paid the bill, then sued for repayment. Not to mention that once you file suit, each party's basis for recovery is in the suit, not in the vehicle. The dealer would hold the car only to maintain the mechanic's lien, which is extinguished the moment they let go of the vehicle. For that matter, you could write a check, take the car, and stop payment on the check if that's the way you wanted to go. The dealer can't get the car back just because you stop payment.

[cruiseroutfit]

While that may be true by the letter of the law....reality is very different. The law states that they must prove the modification was the cause of the component failure. But the court system says they are innocent until proven guilty.

You modify your vehicle, then take it in for a [legit] warranty repair. They deny the warranty claim. You refuse to pay for it. You argue back and forth, but in the end, they still refuse the claim....and they have your vehicle (at worst), or you have a broken vehicle. What else do you have? Grounds for a lawsuit? Sure.

Hire a lawyer, jump through the hoops, pay for a rental car for the next 18 months while the law suit works its way through the system. They just keep filing motions, which drives up the $$$ you owe to your lawyer (because you have to respond). This keeps on going until either you or the dealership are broke. Wanna guess who goes broke first? Once you are broke and don't have a lawyer, you miss a hearing or two and the case gets tossed...now you are broke and still don't have your vehicle fixed.




Welcome to reality...

:)

Great scenario, but one I've never heard come to light. I know plenty of Jeep owners, Tacoma owners (including my own) and diesel owners that have had warranties questioned due to lifts, gears, snorkels, intakes, throttle body spacers, etc. In then end the dealer's always took care of the warranty, if anything with a simple letter or phone call from a lawyer.

[goodtimes]

Great scenario, but one I've never heard come to light. I know plenty of Jeep owners, Tacoma owners (including my own) and diesel owners that have had warranties questioned due to lifts, gears, snorkels, intakes, throttle body spacers, etc. In then end the dealer's always took care of the warranty, if anything with a simple letter or phone call from a lawyer.

I have been in a similar situation (not regarding warranty work), but it came down to who goes broke first....me or a company with annual sales that exceed 10 billion USD. I gave up before I even started, upon the advice of a seasoned lawyer. It would have cost me more than I would have ever recovered.

Is that hypothetical situation in my earlier post an extreme? Yes, absolutely. Can it happen if someone wants to play hard ball? Yes, absolutely.

Madizell--you are correct, it would not be criminal offence, but the process works pretty much the same. You can sue them to try to force the repair, but it is on you to convince an uninterested 3rd party that they did you wrong. Unfortunately, "they" have money on their side. As I tried to imply by adding the "(worst case)" is that yea, it could happen...but it would be a "worst case" scenario (for the consumer)...even then, there may be legal ramifications of keeping the vehicle.

The whole point, even though not typed in perfect legaleze, or perfect in theory...is that if you are going to play hardball, you are going to play hardball with someone that has *really* deep pockets...which usually means the consumer loses because they can't afford to win.

Certainly most warranty claims (that are legit) go through with few, if any, problems. But just because a law exists, does not mean that businesses will follow that law to any individuals interpretation other than their own. They may even blatently ignore the law....and if faced with such a situation, it can be a long, steep, uphill battle.

:)

[Antichrist]

Me: "Yea, but even with a snorkle, if you don't extend your exhaust higher than water line, you will have water run into the engine via the exhaust system as soon as your engine shuts off....and it will shut off, because no one properly seals the electronics package before playing submarine. Not to mention destroying your radiator with the fan because as soon as that water rushes into the engine compartment your fan becomes a propeller and proceeds to deflect and eat the radiator."What you say is exactly true as far as it goes, but you're making several assumptions.
1. That you turn the engine off if you get stuck.
2. That you don't disable the fan before wading.
3. That it's a petrol engine vehicle and has electronics.

[Desertdude]

Someday I'm gonna miss that snorkel...


http://idisk.mac.com/desertdude-Public/Portalwebphotos/IMG_1687.jpg

[TeriAnn]

In most countries of the world, it's a dealer or factory option on Land Rovers. I know Toyota actually makes their own too (per last OJ issue).

I know the snorkels British Pacific sells for Discoverys are a genuine Land Rover factory part.

Discovery snorkel kit (http://www.landroverparts.us/landroverparts/LandRoverSnorkel.html)

It never hurts to check with your manufacturer's accessory parts books.

[madizell]

What you say is exactly true as far as it goes, but you're making several assumptions.
1. That you turn the engine off if you get stuck.
2. That you don't disable the fan before wading.
3. That it's a petrol engine vehicle and has electronics.

Mine is petrol, and has electronics.

I have disabled the fan on occasion, and forgotten to do so on others, with little difference between the results.

I have never shut the engine off in deep water, but have had it stall more than once. Never had an issue with water up the exhaust. It certainly did not stop the engine from restarting.

Much of the assumptions posted regarding exhausts below water line are just that -- assumptions. While it is probably bets to lift the exhaust if you intend to turn your vehicle into a boat, it is simply not necessary for off road work.

[Antichrist]

Much of the assumptions posted regarding exhausts below water line are just that -- assumptions. While it is probably bets to lift the exhaust if you intend to turn your vehicle into a boat, it is simply not necessary for off road work.It's not having your exhaust underwater that's a problem, it's having the water level as high as your exhaust valves, that's when the water will come in if the engine isn't running. Though there may be some siphon effect at a bit lower levels. I've known people who hydrolocked their engine, but the water was up to the bonnet with the engine stalled.

[madizell]

Unless you plan to leave a stalled vehicle submerged over night, water is very unlikely to migrate back to the motor. There is an awful lot of air trapped inside the exhaust system with nowhere to go but down and out the exhaust tubes. If they are under water, any water pressing back on the exhaust will simply compress the air in the system until it reaches equilibrium. The only time during a 4-stroke cycle when air trapped in the exhaust could escape back out the intake is during valve overlap. The valves overlap only a small fraction of a 720 degree rotational cycle.

Engines will generally hydro-lock on water that is ingested through the intake (which brings us back to the need for a snorkel.)

It just isn't a big deal to have your exhaust tips under water.

[R_Lefebvre]

For the warranty concerns, I believe it is a real issue if you have a new vehicle, and the dealer is inclined to deny warranty. Goodtimes' scenario is pretty close to it. It's exactly the same situation with performance cars. Yes, the Magnusson-Moss act is supposed to protect us, but the problem is "The Golden Rule": 'He who has the most gold makes the rules.'

The fact is, the dealer makes more money if they get you to pay for the repair. Warranty repairs are done at a lower shop rate, with lower billable hours for a flat rate job, and they also don't make any money on the parts like they do when a customer pays for them.

I believe that is a lot of the reason why dealers even care about the issue. There is of course the case that they'd get in trouble for doing warranty work when they shouldn't, but that doesn't explain the cases when the dealership has BLATANTLY violated the law by not doing repairs.

I remember one case with a guy who had a totally stock 2002 SVT Focus. He had a rear control arm snap in half at the swaybar mount. The dealership told him "There's no way that could happen unless you were abusing the car, so we won't warranty it." This despite the fact that this is a known issue, in fact the 2003 and 2004 SVTF's recieved reinforced control arms from the factory. The guy was up against a wall, he was moving 2000 miles the next week, and needed to have the car running, so he paid.

That's the typical reality for 99% of the people who do not know their legal rights.

The theory that it's just a money issue for the dealer is reinforced by the fact that in many cases, dealers will offer warranties on major engine builds (supercharger installs) as long as they do the work. Despite the fact that superchargers CLEARLY WOULD violate the engine warranty. I've also observed that "good customers" don't have as much trouble with this issue.

It's true that the claimant must prove the case. However, I think we have the roles reversed here. It's up to the CUSTOMER to file a claim that the warranty was justified. The dealer/OEM will use the terms of the warranty contract to defend themselves. That leaves the customer to use SEMA/Magnusson-Moss to attack the dealer/OEM, which will entail a lengthy legal battle.

I will admit however, that every case I've seen of warranty denial has been abandoned WAY too easily by the customer. They usually don't even go as far as getting a letter from a lawyer. The dealer doesn't want a lawsuit either, and it would easily eat up any money the dealer was going to make on the warranty work.


Mine is petrol, and has electronics.

I have disabled the fan on occasion, and forgotten to do so on others, with little difference between the results.

I have never shut the engine off in deep water, but have had it stall more than once. Never had an issue with water up the exhaust. It certainly did not stop the engine from restarting.

Much of the assumptions posted regarding exhausts below water line are just that -- assumptions. While it is probably bets to lift the exhaust if you intend to turn your vehicle into a boat, it is simply not necessary for off road work.

As is mine. I had no problems with the electronics, or the ignition system with water at levels that it got into the headlights. I also had the fan connected, and had no problems with it eating the rad. I believe it's a case by case basis on this. It appears LR designs their trucks with this in mind, as there is a huge amount of clearance between the fan and rad. Others makes, maybe not. Ditto on connectors. Older vehicles have crappy connectors. Newer vehicles are generally better and more weather resistant. GM typically has excellent connectors, other makes may vary.

Now, as for the exhaust... it makes me nervous. Roughly 50% of exhaust gas is H20 in vapor form. If you shut off your engine while it's in the water, the vapor will cool and condense into water with a volumetric ratio of 1000:1. This will act to suck water up the tailpipe. You can do a fun experiment with this. Take an empty pop can, put a bit of water in it and boil it. Quickly take the can off the heat and put it upsidedown in a bowl of water. The can instantly collapses. In this case, water would just get sucked up the pipe.

I believe AntiChris has the measure of it. It's great if you have a snorkel, but if you shut your engine off while the exhaust valves are below the level of the water... you're probably in trouble. I'd drag the truck out and pull the plugs before trying to restart it. Just to be safe.

[madizell]

Reality Check:

Situation -

Level of exhaust valves at or below water level with, simultaneously, engine shut off.

Examples I have access to:

1) '68 CJ-5, Buick V-6, 2" lift, 235x85x16 tires -- height of exhaust valves above ground, 31.5"; height of door sills above ground 29.5";

2) '91 F-150 4X4, 4.9L, stock ride, 265x75x16 tires -- height of exhaust valves above ground 37"; height of door sills above ground 21";

3) Audi A-6 2.7T Quattro, stock ride & tires -- height of exhaust valves above ground 21", height of door sills 12";

4) '85 CJ-7, Ford 5.0L HO, 7" suspension lift, 37x13x15 tires -- height of valves above ground 39.5", height of door sills above ground 37".

The examples run from German sedan to Challenge truck, and in each example, the door sills are lower than the exhaust valves, sometimes significantly lower. Except for the Quattro, each of these 4x4 vehicles has valves that are higher off the ground than the tops of the tires, and I would expect that for most of use, regardless of what you drive, the result is about the same. For expedition driving, I would posit that unless life hangs in the balance, driving into water that is over the tops of your tires is something that you are going to think long and hard over before attempting, and that shutting off the motor while in this condition would be insane. Simply stalling most vehicles in water, especially moving water, deeper than the tops of your tires could be extremely exciting if not outright dangerous, which is why for the most part I, at least, think about it before I try it. At the least, you are likely to flood the inside of your car or truck with stinky water, which will lower the resale value of your ride.

Come on now. If you haven't spent more than a few odd seconds in deep water in a vehicle, the whole process might seem likely to lead to disaster by myriad pathways. The reality is that you can drive through your average stream crossing without issues other than wet brakes, and that of all the things that can and will go wrong in deep water, dragging water back through the exhaust all the way to the cylinder heads is so far down the list that you need not concern yourself. Before water can get to your heads, it is going to have to take out your catalytic converters and O2 sensors, and any water that gets that far is going to be hot, so chilling your valves or locking the motor will be the last of your worries at that point. Just getting your honey and the 2 kids out of the vehicle without drowning is going to take all of your attention, trust me.

[R_Lefebvre]

Well, I guess I'm young and foolish, because on my 2nd outting, I was in 38" water with 31" tires. And I didn't think that long and hard about it, didn't have time. I don't know where the exhaust valves were, but water came in under the door sills. I didn't stall, but neither was I even remotely concerned about risking life. It was still water, and worst case the occupants would get wet, smelly feet. The pin striping degrades the resale already, and since it's a Landrover, it leaks rainwater and the carpets smell already. ;)

Unfortunately, this is pretty much par for the course up here in the Canadian Shield. The terrain is very rolling, and water has nowhere to drain due to the bedrock. You can't go very far through a trail without encountering pools like this.

From your description, it sounds like most people are concerning themselves with water 24" deep? For me, that wouldn't even cause me to pause, even with a non-snorkel equiped Land Rover. 20" is the official design intent fording depth.

So, that's where I'm coming from. 24-36" is what I was talking about, and there is a definite risk of it coming in the exhaust valves if you stall at that depth. If most people are worried about 12-24", then I agree with you, snorkels and exhaust valves are much ado about nothing.

[Antichrist]

Yeah, I was talking about technical worst case. For probably 90%, or more, of off-roaders, having the exhaust outlet underwater is a non-issue. Not many people submerge their vehicles in the Camel Trophy style.

As for valve overlap, it's a small range, but it does exist and if I had a stall in bonnet depth water without a raised exhaust I'd definitely pull the injectors (diesel) or plugs and crank it before trying to start it.

[madizell]

I wasn't really thinking about puddles, however deep, since they are largely in and out situations, and if placed in the middle of a well defined trail, the depth of the water and the bottom terrain are largely readable from the rest of the trail. I have nevertheless seen some "puddles" in Alaska that might give you pause.

I was thinking of river crossings, where most expedition vehicles will find water to navigate. River bottoms can be hard to read, holes are easy to find but hard to see, rocks are slippery and can get you into trouble, and if you stop, upstream water builds fast on the side of the vehicle. The engine bay will flood, and getting started again if you stall can be a booger.

Still, tops of the tires is a practical working guide, especially if you don't have a snorkel, as flood water maybe won't get you while you are moving, but fan splash will. I have been stopped more times by tires-to-fan splash than any other water crossing issue, which is why the challenge truck has a snorkel. It is not so much about handling deep water as avoiding ANY water in the intake.

I have never personally had a motor stoppage in water deeper than 36" with the CJ-7. However, Alaska Mike had his CJ-5 float away in Caribou Creek one day in what might be thought of as relatively deep water, and while exciting to say the least (technical rescue ensued), I don't recall any damage to the motor, which I believe was shut down for a considerable length of time in fast water while Bob (the CJ) was jammed on the rocks at the head of a gorge waiting help. Wish I had a photo.

[Overland Hadley]

However, Alaska Mike had his CJ-5 float away in Caribou Creek one day in what might be thought of as relatively deep water, and while exciting to say the least (technical rescue ensued), I don't recall any damage to the motor, which I believe was shut down for a considerable length of time in fast water while Bob (the CJ) was jammed on the rocks at the head of a gorge waiting help. Wish I had a photo.

I bet we all wish you had a photo, or video!

[toyota_jon]

I will be installing a snorkel on my first gen 4runner for cleaner air. i've seen enough proof in other rigs that supports this idea. however i will still avoid water at all costs. I've killed two alt's and i'm in no hurry for number 3.

[R_Lefebvre]

Speaking of... yeah, something on my FEAD is on it's last legs due to the water, but I have figure out what, somehow.

Madizel, have you done much wheeling on the terrain type I'm talking about (very old eroded granite mountains, usually 1-2 feet of sand or soil over a bedrock base)?

The pools can be pretty treacherous. You absolutely cannot guess at the depth based on their size. You should never assume it's just a puddle, because it could end up being quite deep. You could have a pool only 20-40 feet wide, but that is easily 24" deep, or more. In fact, that was one issue I had. Some of the pools were "only" 36" deep, but had a very steep entry which put the nose down into it, with the intake being nearer the front.

And I guess I shouldn't have said earlier I did this without much thought... I did think about it, but my only option was to go home. And given we were in a large group, and I'd watched a few Jeeps cross before me, and knowing my intake is actually a little higher than a Jeep... I just went for it.

[madizell]

Madizel, have you done much wheeling on the terrain type I'm talking about (very old eroded granite mountains, usually 1-2 feet of sand or soil over a bedrock base)?

Yes, but since I was driving a lifted Jeep on 36 or 37" tires, locked and prepped for such things, I stopped worrying about puddles and creeks long ago. I have not always driven a challenge-prepared vehicle, and I understand the problems of entering water hazards with unreadable bottoms. But as you say, you were able to watch several others cover the same obstacle, which puts the water hazard out of the "unknown bottom" category and into a well-read bottom class. Nothing negative here, I also like to watch others go first. When there is no one else to go first, or when I am trail leader and can't determine bottom, I get out, walk around, probe the water, and make my best choice if the result of simply diving in is not assured.

And on that note, if we are talking about expedition driving rather than hard-core driving, and if anyone has doubts about their vehicle, their own skills, or the results of tackling a water hazard, let a more experienced person go first -- every time. Make your decisions about going forward, or what line to follow, from watching others. Trail-side repairs can be entertaining, but I don't seek them out. There is no shame in having your vehicle assisted across a difficult water hazard, by winch line or strap, if it saves you from a hydro-locked motor or dead electricals.

[overlander]

YES! The great debate lives on! Saw this picture today in the news from the Australian floods. :ylsmoke::smiley_drive:

http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/world/2011/01/04/australia-water/#slide=18

"Jan. 3: In this photo released by the Northern Territory Police, four German tourists are safely rescued from the flooded Magela Creek, near Jabiru, Australia. Drenching rain that started before Christmas has flooded an area the size of France and Germany combined."

[Mr. Leary]

YES! The great debate lives on! Saw this picture today in the news from the Australian floods. :ylsmoke::smiley_drive:

http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/world/2011/01/04/australia-water/#slide=18

"Jan. 3: In this photo released by the Northern Territory Police, four German tourists are safely rescued from the flooded Magela Creek, near Jabiru, Australia. Drenching rain that started before Christmas has flooded an area the size of France and Germany combined."

:victory: GOing back to the first post... its for safety, right?

[ltngaines]

Who cares, they just look cool:snorkel:

[NOMADIC_LJ]

^^^
and chicks dig em!

[ntsqd]

^^^^
Mine thinks they're silly looking. "Up Periscope!" :snorkel:

[overlander]

I have the new donaldson prefilters, but had the old one before that. More often than not, I get asked by a stranger (most often in drive thru's or gas stations), what that "thing" is (pointing to the snorkel) and they always guess that it's a light. Guess it must look like a street gas lamp to the uninformed. With the old clear Donaldson's, I can understand it. But the new donaldson's are not see-through, and I just don't understand their thought process!

[Azlugz]

another one of the do it my way or you are stupid threads on EXPO.

Just more fuel for the Expo-Snob comment threads on other forums

[overlander]

another one of the do it my way or you are stupid threads on EXPO.

Just more fuel for the Expo-Snob comment threads on other forums

Is this comment meant for me? If so, what exactly offended you? I was simply referring to onlookers not knowing what the snorkel and precleaner was; not insisting that people must have one. I always thought this thread was a humorous debate.

[Azlugz]

No, Sorry, this was meant for the statements in the begining that they are for Mall-crawlers....that was as far as I read. as I said in the pig thread, just celebrate that we can all build as we want and don't have to have cookie cutter rigs. I personally like a snorkle for the clean air aspect, gets you about the 4' line where most of the heavy dust floats at or below.

[overlander]

No, Sorry, this was meant for the statements in the begining that they are for Mall-crawlers....that was as far as I read. as I said in the pig thread, just celebrate that we can all build as we want and don't have to have cookie cutter rigs. I personally like a snorkle for the clean air aspect, gets you about the 4' line where most of the heavy dust floats at or below.

I actually bought my first snorkel for my first Land Rover (pre 110) in Oz back in 01, before they really became popular over here. Carried it back as checked baggage on Quantas. As you mentioned, snorkels are a required modification in life down under, for the dust and the flooding. I knew I was not in Kansas anymore when I saw taxi's in Sydney and Brisbane, (and I'm talking sedan's and station wagons) that had bull bars and snorkels! Who knew they made a snorkel for a ford taurus?

[Nigel Caffiene]

I had one poor, confused lady ask why I needed a periscope on my Jeep. :peepwall:

[Nesnaitsirhc]

I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Live your life according to your standards. No one else has to answer for you or pay your bills. They want to call me a mall crawler, so be it. It's not going on my tombstone and it certainly won't be my legacy.

[Box Rocket]

Wow. This thread has some serious legs. Nearly 5 years old now.

I just want to see more pics of vehicles making deep crossings.

[overlander]

Wow. This thread has some serious legs. Nearly 5 years old now.

I just want to see more pics of vehicles making deep crossings.

Watch any Camel trophy video and get your fill.:victory:

[Jarek M]

Bow wave this! In the middle I had to wait till the truck sinks a little to regain traction. Week after there was 4in of water in that creak. O I'm on 36"s.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d45/Basia678/misc/normal_IMG_0048.jpg

Or this!!!!!
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d45/Basia678/misc/th_MVI_1760.jpg (http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d45/Basia678/misc/?action=view&current=MVI_1760.mp4)

[Jarek M]

9:40 on...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1248703313483965877#

Or...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1248703313483965877#docid=-3219606384173468952

And the water though exhaust thing, LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jarek M]

Towing out a P38 after hydro-lock, couldn't fix it.
http://www.youtube.com/user/rmuller81#p/u/2/9qXD_A5PQdQ

[PirateMcGee]

Sure wish I would have had one here would have saved me thousands$$$$$...... ended up hydrolocked in about 1.5ft of water (noob driving + being dumb). A snorkel will help prevent hydrolock and in my book that's a useful tool. Electronics can dry, oils can be changed, hydrolocking sucks. For now I avoid water.
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb80/piratemcgee/4runner10-29/n111500148_30081991_5068.jpg

[BCHauler]

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=51856&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1294951924
My son just asked me why that truck has a chimney. I told him its powered by a woodstove. He said "doesn't the water put out the fire?". I said that's why those German ladies are giving him a tow.

Be an involved parent :)

[PirateMcGee]

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=51856&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1294951924
My son just asked me why that truck has a chimney. I told him its powered by a woodstove. He said "doesn't the water put out the fire?". I said that's why those German ladies are giving him a tow.

Be an involved parent :)

that was hilarious :coffeedrink:

[TangoBlue]

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=51856&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1294951924
My son just asked me why that truck has a chimney. I told him its powered by a woodstove. He said "doesn't the water put out the fire?". I said that's why those German ladies are giving him a tow.

Be an involved parent :)

Awww... I can feel the love all the way over on the right coast.

[overlander]

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=51856&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1294951924
My son just asked me why that truck has a chimney. I told him its powered by a woodstove. He said "doesn't the water put out the fire?". I said that's why those German ladies are giving him a tow.

Be an involved parent :)

Ok, I had a good laugh at that one too!:ylsmoke:

[Ala5ka]

This is going to sound silly but does anybody know a kit made for a 97-03 F150, I need it for the dust and sand in the Nevada and southern Cali. If not is their anyway to fab my own so it doesn't look like junk? I can't find one on google but maybe my google-fu isn't powerful enough.

[beast1210]

great thread, here is one of my favorites, not my video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ6Z29wHGLw

[off-roader]

Just early last spring a friend with his 2 month old 2010 Jeep Grand Cherokee on the VERY EASY Mojave trail hydrolocked his engine due to water ingestion and broke a rod. Cost to replace the engine was in the THOUSANDS... (Trail Rated my :shakin:).

Sure if he had driven with the bow wake principle it wouldn't have been an issue but then again with a properly installed snorkel, that wouldn't have been an issue for him either. It wasn't the electronics or the tail pipe or the fan that got him. It was the water ingestion.

[cruiseroutfit]

...Just more fuel for the Expo-Snob comment threads on other forums

That 'fuel' has been here longer than you, I'd say the site is doing just fine... didn't keep you from joining ;)

[Azlugz]

Trail rated and idiot proof are two completely different concepts

[Jarek M]

Trail rated and idiot proof are two completely different concepts

I don't think so

[Azlugz]

That 'fuel' has been here longer than you, I'd say the site is doing just fine... didn't keep you from joining ;)


Nope, I am into the drama of the expo snobs, makes me laugh

[cruiseroutfit]

Nope, I am the drama of expo, makes me laugh

Would you like to be the pot or the kettle? :rolleyes:

I'm somewhat active on ~10 different forums, no where have I seen ExPo be regarded to as snobby. Are there some snobby individuals? Possibly, but do similar personalities exist in one form or another on every forum, yes, simply yes. If its that bad, tell your these supposed naysayers to quit reading. Your complaining about posts that are in some cased 4 years old. Oh yeah, your just laughing at the snobs... sounds kinda snobby ;)

To play along with the theme, no snorkel, don't bother coming on a trip with us, its the only 'right' way :p
51942

And yes, I'm being facetious. Non-snorkeled rigs are always allowed so long as they are Toyota :D

[sasaholic]

Would you like to be the pot or the kettle? :rolleyes:

I'm somewhat active on ~10 different forums, no where have I seen ExPo be regarded to as snobby. Are there some snobby individuals? Possibly, but do similar personalities exist in one form or another on every forum, yes, simply yes. If its that bad, tell your these supposed naysayers to quit reading. Your complaining about posts that are in some cased 4 years old. Oh yeah, your just laughing at the snobs... sounds kinda snobby ;)

To play along with the theme, no snorkel, don't bother coming on a trip with us, its the only 'right' way :p

i agree i find myself cruising expo more and more because all the bs from over on ttora. i get into it more than i should over there and its because its the same stupid thing over and over. here people automatically search for what they need and dont expect for anyone to hold there hand. expo is not snobby. if i had to label it is say its definetly more civilized and mature than 99% of other forums

[Azlugz]

Would you like to be the pot or the kettle? :rolleyes:

I'm somewhat active on ~10 different forums, no where have I seen ExPo be regarded to as snobby. Are there some snobby individuals? Possibly, but do similar personalities exist in one form or another on every forum, yes, simply yes. If its that bad, tell your these supposed naysayers to quit reading. Your complaining about posts that are in some cased 4 years old. Oh yeah, your just laughing at the snobs... sounds kinda snobby ;)

To play along with the theme, no snorkel, don't bother coming on a trip with us, its the only 'right' way :p



Snorkel, no, sadly this Jeep does not have one yet as they are over $400 and I have to get other things first, do I believe in a snorkel...yes, had one on the last jeep and the hood had been underwater multiple times, not a lot but then again, this is a dry state........

My LJ that sold earlier this year:
Yes it is clean and waxed as this is one of the for sale photos

http://www.kreationkrawlers.com/Sell/2006-Unlimited/pages/good/DSC00063.jpg

[saveitforsunrise]

just read threw all 31 pages:victory:

[Mamontof]

I read , i read all that posts ...WOW , lots of words :wings:


Do i have snorkel No , only nice to have one ( so Sexy look ) , it will make me feel

horny when i see my old truck :elkgrin:

Do i need Snorkel ....i newer travel caravan style behind some body to collect

a dust

If snorkel will help cross water.....i more think about electric and fan blades

Did i ever cross a deep water in my Tahoe- yes and i was okay with out

Snorkel

[Paladin]

If snorkel will help cross water.....i more think about electric and fan blades

When will this misconception die? When? How many videos and pictures need to be posted?

[valeriano]

I hadn't read the whole thread, but I just had to answer to this crappy arguments...





Him: "no way, I'd never go 'wheeling without one. You never know when you will cross a stream that is deeper than your airbox."

Me: "proper speed will give you a bow wave that will keep water out of your engine compartment. I have had bow waves higher than my hood, and never had a problem with sucking water into my engine."


Try proper speeding here:
YouTube - Jeep Trilha Toyota Bandeirantes submarino Pantanal



Him: "But if you would have gotton stuck, you would have sucked water into your engine".

Me: "Yea, but even with a snorkle, if you don't extend your exhaust higher than water line, you will have water run into the engine via the exhaust system as soon as your engine shuts off....and it will shut off, because no one properly seals the electronics package before playing submarine. Not to mention destroying your radiator with the fan because as soon as that water rushes into the engine compartment your fan becomes a propeller and proceeds to deflect and eat the radiator."


My car has no extended exhaust system and I'm pretty sure the water won't EVER go in there. It has no electronics at all (actually, even electrics are very poor. Only the start and the lights. Not even a radio or a cb!) and nothing but lack of diesel (or water) can kill the Mercedes Benz engine it has under the hood.
The fan is a 5mm thick steel plate that has no way to eat the radiator, since no water can break it even on the max rotation of the engine (3500rpm).

Actually, the snorkel saves lots of cleaning when I'm on dirty roads, cuz it has an extra oil filter that retains most of the dust:
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/5913/1972x1296.jpg

ps: This is a friend's car since my snorkel is still on the way to my house.

[goodtimes]

I hadn't read the whole thread, but I just had to answer to this crappy arguments . . . ps: This is a friend's car since my snorkel is still on the way to my house.

Lots of big words from someone who doesn't even have a snorkel.

Go ahead a post up pictures and videos of *your* rig doing things that require a snorkel. I'm sure everyone would like to see them.

Thanks for playing.
:wavey:

[Corey]

Most have seen pics of my FJ with the snorkel on it (http://www.pnw4runners.com/camping_trips/aug10/26.jpg), and I can tell you it saved me not even a week after ARB Headquarters installed it for me.

It was a heavy rainy morning that early morning around 3 am on my way to work, and it happened within two miles of my home.
Some from my area are familiar with the Denny's on Auburn Way south and the train trestle just North of it.
It is dark under there and I was going around 30 MPH (limit is 35) and I saw a police cruiser on the other side sitting sideways, and I am thinking to myself what the heck is he doing.

All of a sudden I see the standing water in front of me but it was to late.
The water was close to two feet deep there and as soon as I hit it slowed me down and it was like time almost stopped.
Then a huge bow wave came up and over the hood and clear up the windshield.
Had I not had the newly installed snorkel, the water would have made its way to the engine via the stock air intake by the passenger tire.

The police officer watched with interest and then grinned as he saw I was snorkeled.
I think he was just getting ready to block it off there until they could get signs out for awhile until they could get the leaves cleaned out of the drains.

I did not buy the snorkel though for water fording so much, but I got it for dust control as when we go on group runs if it is dry out the dust/dirt is flying everywhere, and you can barely see in front of you.
The air cleaner stays much cleaner with the addition of the snorkel.

I ran a homemade one on my '91 4Runner that was more compact.

http://www.pnw4runners.com/pics/snork.jpg

[valeriano]

Lots of big words from someone who doesn't even have a snorkel.

Go ahead a post up pictures and videos of *your* rig doing things that require a snorkel. I'm sure everyone would like to see them.

Thanks for playing.
:wavey:

I have a snorkel. I just don't like it cuz its made of plastic. I bougth this one with the extra oil filter, but it still hasn't arived. I used it on many floods here.
Floods are pretty common here as you can see in the news. There is one going on right now and it killed more than 600 people. I went there to help some people and it's pretty messy.
My snorkels is essential, but as I don't go to trails with my car (I use it to travel and day use), I don't bother taping it.

Here are some vids of floods from my country where the snorkels made some difference:
YouTube - Troller na Enchente em São Paulo - Original
YouTube - Outro Troller na Enchente em São Paulo - Programa Datena
YouTube - Alagamento em São Paulo - Troller Desbravando

[Ron B]

this is a fun thread. I agree with most on here that the many do it for looks and don't take all the steps to really seal the snorkel, seal/re-locate the electronics or vent the drivetrain.

Not many rivers to cross here in So Cal but I have been running a donaldson top spin on my hummer for a while with good luck (lost it to a tree branch a few months back) and do notice a difference in the air filter and the dust accumulation in my vacuator valve at the bottom of the air cleaner housing.

here is a great picture a guy in Germany just posted on another forum of him playing in a river. Gotta love mechanical. All went well except one of the portals had water in it when he changes the fluids (wise after playing u-boat commander).

[saveitforsunrise]

YouTube - m35a2 deuce under water


i challenge you all with this:victory:

[valeriano]

YouTube - m35a2 deuce under water (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICKLGYs8CE8)


i challenge you all with this:victory:

Like this?
YouTube - Jipe de Impertriz no Rio Tocantins01.mpg

[Ron B]

YouTube - m35a2 deuce under water (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICKLGYs8CE8)


i challenge you all with this:victory:

I have seen that one before -- not sure anyone can compete with that! Funny stuff!!

[Mamontof]

When will this misconception die? When? How many videos and pictures need to be posted?

Yes you absolutely right , i am totally with you

My question hay many engine mast be change , and price for that ?

Dive or drive , that so deep personal design

[Nigel Caffiene]

^ Ha! Mermaids! I have seen it all now!

[vanroth]

YouTube - m35a2 deuce under water (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICKLGYs8CE8)


i challenge you all with this:victory:


qr8eEWyKQHM

Not quite as deep, but no scuba required.

[ltngaines]

Would you like to be the pot or the kettle? :rolleyes:

I'm somewhat active on ~10 different forums, no where have I seen ExPo be regarded to as snobby. Are there some snobby individuals? Possibly, but do similar personalities exist in one form or another on every forum, yes, simply yes. If its that bad, tell your these supposed naysayers to quit reading. Your complaining about posts that are in some cased 4 years old. Oh yeah, your just laughing at the snobs... sounds kinda snobby ;)

To play along with the theme, no snorkel, don't bother coming on a trip with us, its the only 'right' way :p
51942

And yes, I'm being facetious. Non-snorkeled rigs are always allowed so long as they are Toyota :D I find it hard to beleave that a man of religion would be that negitive, although alot of people use that as a reason to be above the sins of all other mankind. Relax dont be soo serious....If you cant have any fun, try.

[LACamper]

Epic thread!!! 5+ years! Unbelievable.

Living in New Orleans water has always been a concern. I'm not talking Katrina- most of us know we need to evacuate if a major storm is coming.
We've always had street flooding issues. TS Francis (1999?) was the worst I've had to deal with at work (insurance agent, lots of claims). I amazingly made it home in my wife's saturn. We floated across a few flooded intersections and avoided the areas known to flood. But street flooding happens sometimes with just regular spring rains.
I bought an Xterra this time mainly because of the water. The air intake is up fairly high. A low profile snorkel is really tempting...
I'd love to see an honest water fording depth chart on all vehicles. I'd frame it and hang it in my office!

[Caduceus]

Epic thread!!! 5+ years! Unbelievable.

Living in New Orleans water has always been a concern. I'm not talking Katrina- most of us know we need to evacuate if a major storm is coming.
We've always had street flooding issues. TS Francis (1999?) was the worst I've had to deal with at work (insurance agent, lots of claims). I amazingly made it home in my wife's saturn. We floated across a few flooded intersections and avoided the areas known to flood. But street flooding happens sometimes with just regular spring rains.
I bought an Xterra this time mainly because of the water. The air intake is up fairly high. A low profile snorkel is really tempting...
I'd love to see an honest water fording depth chart on all vehicles. I'd frame it and hang it in my office!
I think the US military HMMWV (aka, the Hum-vee) is rated to 5 feet. The civilian version to 3 feet.

As for every other vehicle, I have no idea.

Yeah, I've got nothing useful to add besides reviving the dead.

[cruiseroutfit]

I find it hard to beleave that a man of religion would be that negitive, although alot of people use that as a reason to be above the sins of all other mankind. Relax dont be soo serious....If you cant have any fun, try.

I'm not going to bring religion into this, you can take that up with Azlugz. I'm a mere heathen, my Sunday's are best spent in the desert :D

[matthewp]

I think the US military HMMWV (aka, the Hum-vee) is rated to 5 feet.

Correct. the M998 wih the deep water fording kit is rated for 60".

[Azlugz]

I find it hard to beleave that a man of religion would be that negitive, although alot of people use that as a reason to be above the sins of all other mankind. Relax dont be soo serious....If you cant have any fun, try.

Wow, not sure what that had to do with anything!!!!!!!!!!

[ntsqd]

Put me in the non snorkel camp. Sure, had I enough reason I *might* run one. Since I don't operate in silt often enough and water crossings in SoCA are rare enough, I don't. I think that they look extremely poser anywhere but on the dirt, then they may or may not be appropriate.

That's just me, I really don't care what you decide to do. I'm not about to try to convert anyone. That would be nearly pointless and would border on being un-American since whether you run one or not is no skin off my nose.

[Mamontof]

Put me in the non snorkel camp. Sure, had I enough reason I *might* run one. Since I don't operate in silt often enough and water crossings in SoCA are rare enough, I don't. I think that they look extremely poser anywhere but on the dirt, then they may or may not be appropriate.

That's just me, I really don't care what you decide to do. I'm not about to try to convert anyone. That would be nearly pointless and would border on being un-American since whether you run one or not is no skin off my nose.

I was trying logistical understand hay some drive trucks true hell and newer use

snorkel.... YouTube - Russian truck "Ural" in deep water
YouTube - Russian truck "Ural" in deep water - part 2

YouTube - Russian trophy

Dumb stupid finish russian and rest idiots around a globe , i wish they know about snorkel when cross water .

Honestly Snorkel look so sexy , so i was think install two in each side of the car

Gentlemen do you think snorkel in each side of the car help me cross water ,

and have better performance in dusty roads of Utah/Arizona/New Mexico ?

[Caduceus]

so the thing about water crossings... it's only good if the water isn't fast enough or deep enough that your car loses traction. After that, you're flotsam (or is it jetsam?) along for the ride.

[goodtimes]

Gentlemen do you think snorkel in each side of the car help me cross water ,

and have better performance in dusty roads of Utah/Arizona/New Mexico ?

I have never needed a snorkel in Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, or anywhere else for that matter.

[Mamontof]

I have never needed a snorkel in Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, or anywhere else for that matter.

Well you are a lucky newer be afther a rain , or you newer joy Cotton wood canyon crossing (my personal bad memory)

And i hate Moab Afther a rain:snorkel:

Snorkel help have a better performance to engine in Dusty roads :Wow1: That why in my dreams have a two huge one in each side of the car , too look

like real truck ! You see them probably in the roads - a huge steel pipe behind a cabin ( again i surprise why Australian do not use them)


Some travel in Utah/Arizona not only when Red Earth cover by snow and no dust in the trails :ylsmoke:



By the way , when i read all this post it time to make new Comedy series with two robots ....about hay pro truck should look...Snorkel, ARB bumper winch , huge tire , refrigerator RTT .....

[goodtimes]

I've done plenty of exploring during and after rains in AZ and Utah. I still have never found a need for a snorkel (during my exploration -- as I said way back at the beginning of the thread, there are certainly times and places where one would be justified).

Moab during/after a good rain storm is a tough one. It seems to take years to get all the mud out from under the truck.

[Scott Brady]

99% of the justification for a snorkel is appearance. Lets just be honest with ourselves.

But that 1% of the time. . . I am glad I have it.
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/tacoma/action/2007-07-30-30D-IMG_1563.JPG

http://www.expeditionswest.com/adventures/2006/outback_challenge/event/D7_18.JPG

[Mamontof]

I've done plenty of exploring during and after rains in AZ and Utah. I still have never found a need for a snorkel (during my exploration -- as I said way back at the beginning of the thread, there are certainly times and places where one would be justified).

Moab during/after a good rain storm is a tough one. It seems to take years to get all the mud out from under the truck.

Okay , with out sad humor :ylsmoke:

I can not said/wright as i am pro Expedition or Overland traveler , as my RTT typical tent what i install in top of the ruff , i do not have super Zombie crash bumper , my winch i install only when i need , my tire carrier home made rack to hold a tire, canister and tools, i do not have 4 or 6 inch lift add to my car
- what i have a good engine what give my Tahoe 25 M/G , great transmission , transfer case , nice shock , plates and a good tires , well and many other not visual things :snorkel: from outside - my car looks like 10 years old typical crop

I only drive where i like , and if i see a water way to deep - simple look other option to cross (steel no need snorkel)
I am loner driver , nobody in front of me pick up curtains with dust ...(again no need for snorkel)

For me Snorkel nothing by accessories what make truck/SUV look more

horny and sexual attractive for 4x4 enthusiasts :elkgrin:


O please do not punch my tires :) , but one day i will be make/build one huge

monster SAS/Zombie/communist/terrorist/Chinese survival truck and stop

travel , seat in back of my porch with remote control in my arms and start

relise self open RTT, self inflation tire....

[rezdiver]

first pic looks like you hit the water way too fast (this is an example of not treading lightly), and second pic looks like you could do without the snorkel as the water is not too high on your truck. if those were situations of the 1% you mentioned you are now back at 100% not needing it:)


99% of the justification for a snorkel is appearance. Lets just be honest with ourselves.

But that 1% of the time. . . I am glad I have it.
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/tacoma/action/2007-07-30-30D-IMG_1563.JPG

http://www.expeditionswest.com/adventures/2006/outback_challenge/event/D7_18.JPG

[greentruck]

Somehow, this thread convinced me I need a snorkel for the 80.

[then hopefully pulls waistband out to peek in shorts]
:)

[Backroad Explorer]

What about the Performance benefits of a cold air intake via The Snorkel. I picked up 8-10% increase in fuel mileage in my Samurai after installing my Snorkel. Tested over dirt and Highway miles.


http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww183/backroadexplorer/DSCF0388.jpg

[rezdiver]

What about the Performance benefits of a cold air intake via The Snorkel. I picked up 8-10% increase in fuel mileage in my Samurai after installing my Snorkel. Tested over dirt and Highway miles.


Get a cold air intake instead, if your snorkel has to be above your roofline you better have a scuba tank behind your seat when you hit the water.

[Mamontof]

Get a cold air intake instead, if your snorkel has to be above your roofline you better have a scuba tank behind your seat when you hit the water.


Size meter and some time even very important :elkgrin:

[Scott Brady]

first pic looks like you hit the water way too fast (this is an example of not treading lightly), and second pic looks like you could do without the snorkel as the water is not too high on your truck. if those were situations of the 1% you mentioned you are now back at 100% not needing it:)

Your assumptions are incorrect on both accounts.

It was the water that was fast in image #1, not the truck. It was a flood as is clear in the image from the wake impacting the side of the vehicle.

We are exiting the water in image #2. The water was over the hood of the race truck and when combined with intense sandstorms in the Western Sahara we were dumping the prefilter several times a day.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=52011&stc=1&d=1295303132

Here is a shot from the Tuareg camp near Algeria after the sandstorm.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=52012&stc=1&d=1295303131

But you are probably right, who needs a snorkel. . .:snorkel:
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=52010&stc=1&d=1295303132

[Mamontof]

Y

Here is a shot from the Tuareg camp near Algeria after the sandstorm.
But you are probably right, who needs a snorkel. . .:snorkel:


If you travel in dessert areas , snorkel very important ( it like start breath

with full chest ) , only if you not involve in dust ...snorkel

provide nothing by better performance to the engine :wings:

If you international driver as " Dakar" ,Mongolian Rally - you mast/better have

snorkel :ylsmoke:

[Backroad Explorer]

A cold air intake is still under the hood and susceptable to water ingestion. As for the filter being above the roof line. No roof rack full of snow during the winter less weight up high.

Roof rack on for spring, summer and fall.

http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww183/backroadexplorer/227.jpg

[Azlugz]

For the Snorkel Naysayers. We went on a rescue late last year during the rainy season to recover a Jeep. There was puddles of water on the trail, he was done for the day and heading out, the trail was fairly flat so on the way out so he was rolling along at a decent clip (for offraod) and decided to splash thru one of the puddles that was maybe 6" deep. We have all done it and you see pics all the time of guys hammering thru deeper ones and you can just barely see the vehicle in the spray of water. Well, he hit the one in a thousand and the spray went up the air horn, thru the filter and ingested into the engine. He now has a new engine and said he was going to go with a Snorkel, prolly never happen to him again, but he said it was a small price for the safety and the benefits of the cleaner air were just added.


Pulling it on the trailer:
http://www.kreationkrawlers.com/Web/Albums/2010-July-31_VJC-Recovery-4-Peaks-Ghosts-Jeep/pages/good/DSC01770.jpg


The plastic bag stuffed in the hole in the oil pan where the rod came out. (to keep it from dripping on the tow out and trailer load)
http://www.kreationkrawlers.com/Web/Albums/2010-July-31_VJC-Recovery-4-Peaks-Ghosts-Jeep/pages/good/DSC01762.jpg



Yes, this is a freak occurance, but it does happen and a CAI appears to make it more possible as the filter is open. I am not saying everyone should have a snorkel, to each his own, I am just stating, again, that they are more useable than JUST deep water crossing.

I did do the lemming routine when I got the Jeep and put in a K&N filter (the only one I have ever bought). It did serve to help in one respect tho, It helped show how much dust I was picking up.

In our group, David normally leads, and I normally trail the group, I have a very strong CB and can get a call to the front even if we get way behind and then bread down, also my A/C works great so I can run with the windows up!!. Anyway, that said, here in AZ, I am usually in the worst of the dust. Comparing my time with the oiled K&N filter before the snorkel and then the time after installing the snorkel, I can definately say there was less silt and dust sucked in after. The filter still needed cleaning after a run, but was not nearly as bad.

That combined with the few unexpected over the hood water crossing I did made it worth every penny to me.

[ntsqd]

While a snorkel would probably have prevented that, so to would a properly placed and baffled air intake. Frequent deep water crossings and/or heavy dust remain the only two conditions that can absolutely justify a snorkel.

I've had silt pack the backside of a wheel so tightly that it stays in place on pavement at highway speeds and cause a very large out of balance condition. Air filter was fine, and I was far from being the only traffic through that section.

[Blain]

99% of the justification for a snorkel is appearance. Lets just be honest with ourselves.

But that 1% of the time. . . I am glad I have it.
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/tacoma/action/2007-07-30-30D-IMG_1563.JPG

I understand the importance of a bow wave, but with a current like that it's not going to do ya any good. Awesome pic though!!

[Box Rocket]

This has become tiresome. Who cares if it's justified or not, people who like snorkels and believe in their benefit will have them on their trucks. Those who don't will continue to criticize and not have them.

Which ever camp you reside in, you're right. As for me...........I'm right.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/boxrocket/UCE%202010/UCE107.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/boxrocket/Gold%20Truck/IMG_1446Large.jpg :victory:

[Mamontof]

Snorkel

, if you serve a Army you should can Drive a SUV like a submarine YouTube - lada niva submarine under water car scuba diving

[Corey]

For the Snorkel Naysayers. We went on a rescue late last year during the rainy season to recover a Jeep. There was puddles of water on the trail, he was done for the day and heading out, the trail was fairly flat so on the way out so he was rolling along at a decent clip (for offraod) and decided to splash thru one of the puddles that was maybe 6" deep. We have all done it and you see pics all the time of guys hammering thru deeper ones and you can just barely see the vehicle in the spray of water. Well, he hit the one in a thousand and the spray went up the air horn, thru the filter and ingested into the engine. He now has a new engine and said he was going to go with a Snorkel, prolly never happen to him again, but he said it was a small price for the safety and the benefits of the cleaner air were just added.

If you play near the water, better spend $200 on a snorkel now than $6K or more later for a new engine.

It is good insurance and smart to have one.

[ntsqd]

Blatantly stolen from this trip report (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53918&page=4). Note the real air filter at it's base, not to mention the high clearance front axle. Arguably the intake should be in front of the exhaust, but with the height difference it is a non-issue.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_xkFrXZhchqE/TTxsRUGBGJI/AAAAAAAAQWU/kg_MRp3FQbE/s800/P1020649.JPG

[Mamontof]

. Arguably the intake should be in front of the exhaust, but with the height difference it is a non-issue.]

http://www.abeltasmancentre.co.nz/images/fullsize/watertaxi-01.jpg

Snorkel on Tug Boats Tractors use all around New Zealand

[southern safaris]

first things first i love this forum...... i usually just read take what i want and leave it at that, just want to chime in for what reason i dont know maybe i just dont believe i am of the few percentile that actually do what it takes to make a vehicle water worthy so to speak, here in the everglades especially during wet season you find yourself in deep water before you know it , most of the time unexpectedly , the same dry trail you were on last week is three feet under water the next, i do agree with most posts a snorkel alone is not going to make your vehicle work as a sub, but most down here in our parts use them out of need rather than looks , as in my case it was the last result! my rig ran great water up to the hood but once the carb choked out i was swimming the tow rope to a bigger truck< if i was lucky to be with someone else. did everything and then some, e-fans with override cutoff switch, dizzy boot, vent lines out the wazzooooo, cdi box and all firewall holes plugged and sealed , and so many more headaches i dont have time to write, it got me far but the snorkel does allow me to go farther and i did not want to snork my rig, i thought it was tooo over the top for a daily driver but which would you rather deal with , peoples asking what it is and why you need it or your wife (in my case) saying"your really gonna turn around because the waters too deep?!" i can honestly say now she will want to turn around before my truck needs too, and that makes it all worth it to me, just my humble opinion but there are more out there that are not just mall cruisers, and just because they have a snork, dont think its all about looks , maybe theres just other bad water drivers like me, i cant always keep that perfect bow wave....id rather have not punched that hole in my fender, happy wheeling everyone! p.s. this was not meant to step on anyones toes, please dont get offended at all

[CYi5]

I've been toying the idea of doing a snorkel out of fiberglass, loosely basing the design off of Roca Silva's (http://www.rocasilva.com/snorkel/snorkel.html). Wouldn't this concept simply pick up all the dust hitting the windshield?

http://www.rocasilva.com/snorkel/images/4runner.jpg

[Scott Brady]

Wouldn't this concept simply pick up all the dust hitting the windshield?


It looks like the truck was attacked by a giant leech ;)

[southern safaris]

is that the intake right there at the top of the windscreen?

[CYi5]

is that the intake right there at the top of the windscreen?

As far as I can tell...several of the pics don't have the greatest resolution.

And everyone knows leeches are useful ;).

[southern safaris]

that website had some interesting looking snorkels , beats the heck out of my pvc one! if you do make one out of fiberglass post a pic id like to see it,

[southern safaris]

It looks like the truck was attacked by a giant leech ;)

oh and Mr. Brady btw thanks for bringing the world Overland Journal, im a dedicated reader....

[sasaholic]

i made mine out of fiberglass and it god hammered by some big branches and hasnt been effected yet.

not a great pic of it but u get the idea. i modeled it similar to the arb snorkel, but kept it super close to the windshield

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee120/Love_4_ever_cbjw/snow006.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee120/Love_4_ever_cbjw/truck313.jpg

[southern safaris]

very nice... i like the cutout for that antenna too,

[sasaholic]

thank you. i wasnt goin to do the cutout and just relocate the antenna, but it just adds a bit more shape to it and im glad i did it

[southern safaris]

shows craftsmanship:beer::beer:

[CYi5]

thank you. i wasnt goin to do the cutout and just relocate the antenna, but it just adds a bit more shape to it and im glad i did it

What kind of material did you use to make your fiberglass plug? Wood, foam, mesh?

I'm from Redding too btw, that manzanita is killer huh? ;) .

[sasaholic]

What kind of material did you use to make your fiberglass plug? Wood, foam, mesh?

I'm from Redding too btw, that manzanita is killer huh? ;) .

ya when u were still up here i saw u driving around a few times. ya the manzanita sucks but alot of my really deep scratches are from hunting in the mendocino forests. i layed down tape on the fender to match the curves and layered up some fiberglass, then used foam to build the body and fiberglassed over that. for the tube i used a section of abs and fiberglassed over that. i could have left the abs under the tube but i took it out. thinking back if i would do it again i would scuff up the tube really well and lay the fiberglass ontop with the intentions of it sticking and leaving it inside for more strength(although i have leaned mine up against a few trees). i also used the mounting pattern of an arb snorkel so incase it turned out like crap or i just didnt like it or it fell apart i would be able to buy a true snorkel and just bolt it on. if i had the money i would have just bought one probably, but i didnt and i like doing things the hard way i made it. hope that helps a little bit andy questions ask away

[Moody]

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/5598/dsc0808k.jpg

[bcrez]

Better question is how in the heck did you get a Hilux in denver?


Snorkels for me would be for dust primarily. The air intake on my Hilux is behind the left side headlight, which is about 6 inches higher than the stock ECU location and alternator, probably a good foot higher than the starter. I've raised my axle breathers to spots higher than the air intake, so my low point is really the tailpipe. Although since the bend in the intermediate pipe between the muffler and tailpipe goes up and around the axle, the real low point is actually roughly equal to the top of my tires.

BTW, I put in a K&N right after buying my truck and around 10K miles later when I tore into the engine to replace the timing chain, noticed that my intake was filthy with a fine dust. I started doing used oil analysis and was surprised at how much silica they found (around 65 ppm). That level is usually considered severe duty and usually means really short oil change intervals. I typically follow ~4K intevals on Castrol Syntec.

I promptly went back to stock Toyota filters. I now get around 5 to 10 ppm silica. The K&N certainly didn't clog like my stock filters do. But, it appeared that the reason it wasn't dirty is that it does not do a particularly good job at stopping the fine dust. As it is I replace the filter about 2 or 3 times a year, which I'd rather do than keep ingesting dirt. I recommend to everyone I know that uses a stock-fit K&N to have an analysis done (really everyone should do them periodically). Compare the silica numbers with a good traditional filter (cheap thin-paper Frams don't count) and a K&N, since silica is just a measure of how much external dirt is being sucked into the engine.

To be fair, I also noticed that the stock filters fit more snug into the air box than the K&N, so I could have been sucking dust around the edges of the filter, too. But I'm careful to wipe a coating of grease on the frame before putting a filter in, so I'm not sure that I was getting all that much coming around the edges.

[Mamontof]

I've been toying the idea of doing a snorkel out of fiberglass, loosely basing the design off of g[/IMG]

WOW , that the best snorkel i ever see ( and WORST Price $ 1 500? :Wow1:) http://www.rocasilva.com/snorkel/snorkel.html

so smooth look on car , made for joy a speed in dusty roads WOW :wings:

[nano151]

first things first i love this forum...... i usually just read take what i want and leave it at that, just want to chime in for what reason i dont know maybe i just dont believe i am of the few percentile that actually do what it takes to make a vehicle water worthy so to speak, here in the everglades especially during wet season you find yourself in deep water before you know it , most of the time unexpectedly , the same dry trail you were on last week is three feet under water the next, i do agree with most posts a snorkel alone is not going to make your vehicle work as a sub, but most down here in our parts use them out of need rather than looks , as in my case it was the last result! my rig ran great water up to the hood but once the carb choked out i was swimming the tow rope to a bigger truck< if i was lucky to be with someone else. did everything and then some, e-fans with override cutoff switch, dizzy boot, vent lines out the wazzooooo, cdi box and all firewall holes plugged and sealed , and so many more headaches i dont have time to write, it got me far but the snorkel does allow me to go farther and i did not want to snork my rig, i thought it was tooo over the top for a daily driver but which would you rather deal with , peoples asking what it is and why you need it or your wife (in my case) saying"your really gonna turn around because the waters too deep?!" i can honestly say now she will want to turn around before my truck needs too, and that makes it all worth it to me, just my humble opinion but there are more out there that are not just mall cruisers, and just because they have a snork, dont think its all about looks , maybe theres just other bad water drivers like me, i cant always keep that perfect bow wave....id rather have not punched that hole in my fender, happy wheeling everyone! p.s. this was not meant to step on anyones toes, please dont get offended at all

As a fellow Southern Floridian i have to agree. Deep water, especially during the rainy season, really limits your options if you don't run a snorkel. I'm getting ready to install and aluminum River Raider (http://riverraider.biz/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=69&products_id=102&zenid=hhpnko66g15bu29egkub6iti71) snorkel on my YJ which i bought for $75 used. I plan to use their universal airbox (http://riverraider.biz/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=69&products_id=190&zenid=hhpnko66g15bu29egkub6iti71), but i'll run a screen instead of the cover plate when on the road cuz i'm worried the Chevy V8 might need more air.

Here's the project... I'll post a new pic once i get the snorkel installed.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y193/nano151/CJ7%20Build/6%20Body%20Work%20And%20Paint/jeep021.jpg

[southern safaris]

As a fellow Southern Floridian i have to agree. Deep water, especially during the rainy season, really limits your options if you don't run a snorkel. I'm getting ready to install and aluminum River Raider (http://riverraider.biz/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=69&products_id=102&zenid=hhpnko66g15bu29egkub6iti71) snorkel on my YJ which i bought for $75 used. I plan to use their universal airbox (http://riverraider.biz/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=69&products_id=190&zenid=hhpnko66g15bu29egkub6iti71), but i'll run a screen instead of the cover plate when on the road cuz i'm worried the Chevy V8 might need more air.

Here's the project... I'll post a new pic once i get the snorkel installed.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y193/nano151/CJ7%20Build/6%20Body%20Work%20And%20Paint/jeep021.jpg

ever get that snorkel installed? lets see some pics

[rwhockey29]

what are yalls thoughts on this? ive seen one or two others like this, got the idea from tractors actually. ramcharger has a naturally low sitting air intake, and while i dont do any high water crossings, i do hit some big mud pits and water puddles. i want the intake up higher, but i dont need a huge snorkel up the side of the windshield. just enough to keep waves/splashes out of the way.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n106/asdffdsa29/snorkel.jpg

im thinking cut out a hole in the hood(the black part in the picture) and run something similar to this:

http://image.truckinweb.com/f/17564319+w750+st0/0903tr_21_z+2008_gmc_sierra_buildup+xdi_intake_can ister_and_filter.jpg

a canister type intake, mounted vertically out of the hole in the hood. just high enough to keep water out, but not so high that it can get broken by branches and the like.

[AndrewClarke]

what are yalls thoughts on this? ive seen one or two others like this, got the idea from tractors actually. ramcharger has a naturally low sitting air intake, and while i dont do any high water crossings, i do hit some big mud pits and water puddles. i want the intake up higher, but i dont need a huge snorkel up the side of the windshield. just enough to keep waves/splashes out of the way.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n106/asdffdsa29/snorkel.jpg

im thinking cut out a hole in the hood(the black part in the picture) and run something similar to this:

http://image.truckinweb.com/f/17564319+w750+st0/0903tr_21_z+2008_gmc_sierra_buildup+xdi_intake_can ister_and_filter.jpg

a canister type intake, mounted vertically out of the hole in the hood. just high enough to keep water out, but not so high that it can get broken by branches and the like.

Check out TeriAnn's post on page 20. She's done something similar to what you've suggested.

- Andrew.

[rwhockey29]

Check out TeriAnn's post on page 20. She's done something similar to what you've suggested.

- Andrew.

ah. thanks, completely missed that post. i was hoping to keep it lower, and actually on the hood tho. the top parts of ramcharger fenders arent wide enough to run a snorkel through. ill definitely be pulling some ideas from TeriAnn's though.

[southern safaris]

Check out TeriAnn's post on page 20. She's done something similar to what you've suggested.

- Andrew.

diddo on that , i wish i had that idea when i did mine ,

[ntsqd]

If you obscure vision some state's LEOs won't be too happy with you. Why not just move or duct air inlet up higher under the hood?

[scrubber3]

So uuhh I have a snorkel on it's way to me as we speak. I saw on here that it picks up chicks and well, I just had to have one. :)

[rwhockey29]

If you obscure vision some state's LEOs won't be too happy with you. Why not just move or duct air inlet up higher under the hood?

with the way im thinking of doing it, it wouldnt even stick up higher then the front of the hood, from my line of sight in the driver seat.

[McFly2003]

my wife calls my snorkel my trucks "gay hand", because of the intake scoop at the top :sombrero:

[seanz0rz]

So uuhh I have a snorkel on it's way to me as we speak. I saw on here that it picks up chicks and well, I just had to have one. :)

thats how i got my wife!

i originally got it for two reasons: clean air, and it makes my smile. i bought it at a time when i needed to smile.

[scrubber3]

thats how i got my wife!

i originally got it for two reasons: clean air, and it makes my smile. i bought it at a time when i needed to smile.

Awesome!! See guys Snorkel=Wife..... Wait a minute, maybe I don't need a snorkel after all. lol Okay, seriously though I think that's cool and yeah, I need a smile too. Hopefully no one will call it a gay hand though. :)

[enzo]

99% of the justification for a snorkel is appearance. Lets just be honest with ourselves.

But that 1% of the time. . . I am glad I have it.
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/tacoma/action/2007-07-30-30D-IMG_1563.JPG

http://www.expeditionswest.com/adventures/2006/outback_challenge/event/D7_18.JPG

What kind of tip is that on the snorkel in the 2nd pic? Is that one better for dusty conditions or something?

[Rovertrader]

it is called a precleaner, and allows the dirt/dust to settle- after being above the majority of the dust to start.

[scrubber3]

It's called a pre-cleaner. You can see them on a lot of tractors. Most come with em.

[enzo]

Thanks guys!

[TxRider]

I think the US military HMMWV (aka, the Hum-vee) is rated to 5 feet. The civilian version to 3 feet.

As for every other vehicle, I have no idea.

Yeah, I've got nothing useful to add besides reviving the dead.

My '53 M37 is rated to 7 feet fording depth, with the fording kit installed, 4 feet without the fording kit.

But it also came with waterproof ignition and distributor, water tight crank case ventilation, water tight fuel tank vented to the air intake and water tight diff vents etc.

But at 7 feetyou would have to open up the canvas top and drive standing up to keep your head above water... ;) at 4 feet without the snorkels you would be tush deep in water in the cab.

Someone else's M37 here, but you can see the factory intake and exhaust snorkels in this pic.

http://www.g741.org/photogallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2149&g2_serialNumber=2

[Gren_T]

I found a high level intake helped reduce the crap my LR 300tdi airfilter by a huge amount as I change all filters every 3months I could see the diffrence. however I started to notice the perforated surround on the filter were showing signs of corrosion.:eek: water getting in?

I resealed the pipework & replaced the ram top with a cyclone top and it's made a huge improvement, the photo below shows how much rain was sucked into the cyclone after a 60 mile trip in heavy rain.
the filters are almost as clean as new and where I greased the inside of the filter housing to trap the loose stuff that is also clean.

The cyclone sucks air in from underneath so imagine how much water was getting into the air intake when the ram top was facing forward.
and i get to watch flies and crap wizz around as I drive:smiley_drive:

87878

regards all
Gren

[AndrewClarke]

I assume that the nipple on the air intake/filter canister is supposed to let water out of the canister before it makes its way into the engine. I wonder how well it works in practice. Well, I don't wonder how well mine works, as it currently has duct tape and a condom over it as my old nipple fell off (hmm, condoms, nipples). I have a new one sitting in a box and will fit it on with a bit of sealant to help it stay there.

[scrubber3]

87897 Got mine installed. Now all the ladies can't keep their eyes off me.... Or my snorkel.... :jump:

[fatrat]

it is called a precleaner, and allows the dirt/dust to settle- after being above the majority of the dust to start.

I thought it was a tupperware bowl the first time I noticed one. :D

[scrubber3]

I did too..lol But I was about 6 years old..:sombrero:

[fatrat]

Yeah I was in my teens but I was in to lowered cars & fast bikes not Tupperware bowls on top of PVC pipes. Lmao!

[ReconH3]

I have used my snorkel plenty of times in extreme water crossings in my TJ. Mostly not out of choice. Needing to get from point A to Point B and the only way was through the deep river. One time was during a SAR during a flash flood. No other vehicles could access the victim with compound fracture, because they didn't have a snorkel. Precleaners also make a huge difference in keeping the filter unclogged with dust. Due to all these passed experiences, I decided to put one also on my H3. If I never have to use it all the better, but if I do, it's there.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/CanaryLupo/Recon%20H3%20Project/bf688a4a.jpg


"Ex Umbris Venimus"

Sent from my iPhone

[SOAZ]

it is called a precleaner, and allows the dirt/dust to settle- after being above the majority of the dust to start.
Sounds like you already got the answer, but here is some more info on the most advanced ones currently. With it, I can offroad all year in dust, sand and dirt before seeing any noticeable dirt in my air filter.
http://www.donaldson.com/en/engine/support/datalibrary/000207.pdf

[Schattenjager]

Why Snorkel? Why not? Even if someone only uses the snorkel and disregards the other items on the list of proper water prep, they have at least removed hydro shocking their motor. I installed my snorkel, and lengthened the diff breathers. Did not seal the ignition nor some of the other things mentioned as a good idea. Never had a problem 3.5 years in wet Alaska.

Chance favors the prepared mind!

100033 100034 100035 100036

[98 SNAKE EATER]

I have used my snorkel plenty of times in extreme water crossings in my TJ. Mostly not out of choice. Needing to get from point A to Point B and the only way was through the deep river. One time was during a SAR during a flash flood. No other vehicles could access the victim with compound fracture, because they didn't have a snorkel. Precleaners also make a huge difference in keeping the filter unclogged with dust. Due to all these passed experiences, I decided to put one also on my H3. If I never have to use it all the better, but if I do, it's there.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/CanaryLupo/Recon%20H3%20Project/bf688a4a.jpg


"Ex Umbris Venimus"

Sent from my iPhone


Is that the Sy-Klone pre-cleaner?

I've been looking into getting one, but they're not cheap :o

[ReconH3]

Is that the Sy-Klone pre-cleaner?

I've been looking into getting one, but they're not cheap :o

Yes it is. I don't like the ram that comes with it. The Donaldson one that Safari sells for my application is huge. Looks like you have a control tower on there. I saw one on another H3 and asked him where he got. I always keep the ram in my trunk because from passed experience the precleaners and trees don't get alone too well. Nothing worse than having an open snorkel to sick in everything into the air box.


"Ex Umbris Venimus"

Sent from my iPhone

[98 SNAKE EATER]

Yes it is. I don't like the ram that comes with it. The Donaldson one that Safari sells for my application is huge. Looks like you have a control tower on there. I saw one on another H3 and asked him where he got. I always keep the ram in my trunk because from passed experience the precleaners and trees don't get alone too well. Nothing worse than having an open snorkel to sick in everything into the air box.


"Ex Umbris Venimus"

Sent from my iPhone


Nice

Going by their YouTube video, they seem to work very well :)


_6AxqFVipbA


And they don't look like a shop towel dispenser like the big Donaldson units :Wow1:

I'm currently running a 70 series style hat as it was only $15 bucks and never used the standard dorkel scoop :snorkel:

http://www.fuelslut.net/ihost/files/123/FZJ80B52Bumpit.JPG

[Zam15]

Yes it is. I don't like the ram that comes with it. The Donaldson one that Safari sells for my application is huge. Looks like you have a control tower on there. I saw one on another H3 and asked him where he got. I always keep the ram in my trunk because from passed experience the precleaners and trees don't get alone too well. Nothing worse than having an open snorkel to sick in everything into the air box.

Any idea how a Sy-Klone type pre-cleaner perform in a volcanic ash environment (or large forest fires)? I know standand air filters are basically useless as the clog up almost immediately. It would seem to me as there is no filter element to clog this would be very useful.

[The BN Guy]

Snake that doesn't look like the Sy-Klone on your 'Cruiser...what is that one?

[eurosonic]

After going through some creeks, with a "its not that deep" mindset, quickly found out snorkel is a must. Had some water in the airbox, good thing thats as far as it went. :Wow1:

If you know that youll be going through water, mind as well be ready.

http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx73/eurosonik/1998%20Montero/IMG_0224.jpg

http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx73/eurosonik/1998%20Montero/IMG_0853.jpg

http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx73/eurosonik/1998%20Montero/IMG_8069copy.jpg

[98 SNAKE EATER]

Snake that doesn't look like the Sy-Klone on your 'Cruiser...what is that one?





I'm currently running a 70 series style hat as it was only $15 bucks and never used the standard dorkel scoop :snorkel:




http://www.fuelslut.net/ihost/files/123/newfjscubasnorkel5.JPG
http://www.fuelslut.net/ihost/files/123/newfjscubasnorkel6.JPG
http://www.fuelslut.net/ihost/files/123/newfjscubasnorkel7.JPG
http://www.fuelslut.net/ihost/files/123/newfjscubasnorkel8.JPG
http://www.fuelslut.net/ihost/files/123/newfjscubasnorkel9.JPG


I'd love to get a Sy-Klone, but they're priced out of my budget at this time :o

[TangoBlue]

http://www.fuelslut.net/ihost/files/123/newfjscubasnorkel9.JPG


I'd love to get a Sy-Klone, but they're priced out of my budget at this time :o

I suspect you added that picture as a clue to the source but I can't seem to locate it on that website. I cry "uncle" - help please?

[98 SNAKE EATER]

I suspect you added that picture as a clue to the source but I can't seem to locate it on that website. I cry "uncle" - help please?


It's a China clone of the original 70 series snorkel head I picked up on Ebay.

When I bought my snorkel, the seller added it for an extra $15 bucks.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/260902472471?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_2828wt_1344

[TangoBlue]

It's a China clone of the original 70 series snorkel head I picked up on Ebay.

When I bought my snorkel, the seller added it for an extra $15 bucks.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/260902472471?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_2828wt_1344

Thanks!

[overlander]

I would like to announce that Hurricane Sandy has officially declared "pro-snorkel" the winner of the snorkel wars.

[eurosonic]

I was watching the newscast and they were showing a lady in Honda CRV driving down the road, headlight deep in water. Wonder how far she got before hearing funny sounds from the engine.

[toymaster]

^^^^^ reminds me every thing is expo "fluff" till you actually need it. One day I may dd an econobox but I will always have a capable Vic in my stable.

[Glenn C]

Although no one makes a snorkel for my Outback, Safari was nice enough to work with me to find the closest fit.

Do I need it? Probably not. Does it provide a nice high location for cold air intake, contribute to the start of many amiable conversations, and allow me to cross a few streams in VT and CA that I otherwise might have chosen to drive the long way around? Abso-freakin-lutley! :D

As anyone can tell, my little Superu is a lesson in functional overkill. It does everything I ask of it and I smile every time I walk up to it! Isn't that what it's all about? :smiley_drive:

http://lh5.google.com/wbanas/R5vvvwa6uHI/AAAAAAAAB0k/DtjQKiw5AXo/s800/Horseneck1.jpg

And once that lift kit gets here from AU..... whoooaaaa baby!

http://lh5.google.com/wbanas/Rv_oSKtBGlI/AAAAAAAABgc/U4LfH0CSFEQ/s800/P9303521.JPG

The Superu (http://thesuperu.com)

ok that is possibly the most coolest thing ive ever seen I love it , the light bar is class an snorkel looks brilliant congrats ,

on story of a snorkel id rather have it an not need it than need it an not have it in the last few years there has been a serious amount of flooding in my city so will be gettin one for the pajero cool thread though

[Pacific Northwest yetti]

I've debated with myself immensely about a snorkel. However my situation is slightly different, living and working on a dusty farm and ranch in eastern oregon during harvest there have been times when i have to clean or replace my filter WEEKLY due to the dusty farm conditions. I agree most people dont waterproof things. Most tractors we use have snorkels with a cyclone type head on them and they are all for dust and work well. Just an opinion and a thought...

[bobDog]

I've debated with myself immensely about a snorkel. However my situation is slightly different, living and working on a dusty farm and ranch in eastern oregon during harvest there have been times when i have to clean or replace my filter WEEKLY due to the dusty farm conditions. I agree most people dont waterproof things. Most tractors we use have snorkels with a cyclone type head on them and they are all for dust and work well. Just an opinion and a thought...

Yep! Everyone thinks water but no dust at engine height sucks.

Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk 2

[sovereign]

.

[crazyeyez]

I was watching the newscast and they were showing a lady in Honda CRV driving down the road, headlight deep in water. Wonder how far she got before hearing funny sounds from the engine.

that reminds me of the newscast on the Nashville flood, back in 2010. camera guy was set up on a tripod and this BMW came driving by then went and drove thru a flooded street. needless to say, bmw did get far. camera shows the camera man walking over to help push the bmw to dry land... stupid cars....


but anyway, i'm more por-snorkle, and found one for my truck for under 200. do i need one? no. but it would look bad *** on my truck, imo. also, the cooler air would be nice and would be then varified using my UltraGuage or HPTuners.

[Scott Brady]

This argument would never happen in Siberia
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=132486&d=1353780187

[crazyeyez]

Its ok! the engine has a snorkle!
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m254/Trainworm/Dantes%20Peak%20Suburban/26.jpg

[TangoBlue]

meh... that population which believes snorkels are unecessary and vocalize it to extreme also believe the world is flat and douse their hot dogs in catsup.

[toymaster]

I watch Dante's Peak every once in a while just to see that rig. :)


http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m254/Trainworm/Dantes%20Peak%20Suburban/26.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm pro-snorkel myself...

http://toymaster.smugmug.com/Other/jeep/i-Wgp4Rsd/0/M/IMG-20120212-00009-M.jpg

http://toymaster.smugmug.com/Other/jeep/i-4c3bvqX/0/M/IMG-20110921-00218-M.jpg

[overlander]

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m254/Trainworm/Dantes%20Peak%20Suburban/26.jpg

One of my faves and best snorkel argument movie ever. That movie also inspired my "rule of life #134": Whenever presented with option of getting in a HMMVW or a 2WD passenger van when evacuating a natural disaster-always get in the HMMVW.

[Zam15]

One of my favorite movies :-) P.S. I have had mud in my air box so to me my snorkle is priceless. It will also save me $$$ for every time I hit the trail having to replace my filter.

[crazyeyez]

One of my faves and best snorkel argument movie ever. That movie also inspired my "rule of life #134": Whenever presented with option of getting in a HMMVW or a 2WD passenger van when evacuating a natural disaster-always get in the HMMVW.

LOL! yes! i would have left the van back at the motel.

[ntsqd]

I think that they look dorky. There, after 42 pages I said it. I'm not ignoring or discounting or even discouraging their usefulness in the right environs, but THEY LOOK DORKY. They make a truck not in those environs look like a dorky poser.

Hot Dogs are properly only ever eaten with bbq sauce and nothing else.

[TangoBlue]

I think that they look dorky. There, after 42 pages I said it. I'm not ignoring or discounting or even discouraging their usefulness in the right environs, but THEY LOOK DORKY. They make a truck not in those environs look like a dorky poser.

Hot Dogs are properly only ever eaten with bbq sauce and nothing else.

Well there you go... finally conclusive empirical evidence -- "they look dorky." From a catsup-derived sauced weiner-eater, no less; point proven. ;)

[toymaster]

I think that they look dorky. There, after 42 pages I said it. I'm not ignoring or discounting or even discouraging their usefulness in the right environs, but THEY LOOK DORKY. They make a truck not in those environs look like a dorky poser.

Hot Dogs are properly only ever eaten with bbq sauce and nothing else.

I do believe the weiner w/sauce eater just called my JEEP dorky..... Well I'll be. :PROFSheriffHL:





















:elkgrin:

[ntsqd]

Nope, I said snorkels look dorky. And nope, it's just my opinion, like every other one posted here.

That's Hebrew Nationals, not merely "weiners". Anything less is not worth the trouble.

[toymaster]

Nope, I said snorkels look dorky. And nope, it's just my opinion, like every other one posted here.

That's Hebrew Nationals, not merely "weiners". Anything less is not worth the trouble.

I'as just kidin' 'ya. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, even those voluntarily living in a nanny state.

[TangoBlue]

Voluntarily lives in nanny state;
thinks snorkels "look dorky;"
eats Hebrew National wieners with barbecue sauce;
embraces hallucinations;
expresses personal misguided opinion.

Definitely sounds like seditious terrorist behavior. IP address reported to DHS. Enjoy Guantanamo Bay -- they have BBQ sauce, too.

[toymaster]

^^^^^^ 'at boy plays rough!

[bobDog]

Nope, I said snorkels look dorky. And nope, it's just my opinion, like every other one posted here.

That's Hebrew Nationals, not merely "weiners". Anything less is not worth the trouble.

How does God make tea??

He brews it! :D

What about Nathans dogs?

Snorkels look industrial, not dorkey

Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk 2

[AndrewClarke]

I think that they look dorky. There, after 42 pages I said it. I'm not ignoring or discounting or even discouraging their usefulness in the right environs, but THEY LOOK DORKY. They make a truck not in those environs look like a dorky poser.

Did you specifically wait until page 42 to make your proclamation?

I've said it before in this thread, and I'll say it again. Chicks dig snorkels. :victory:

You may call them dorkels, and I do agree that sometimes they can be poseur statements. I knew a guy who put one on his Discovery and for the next few years he owned the vehicle, never actually hooked it up to his air box. He did off-road his vechicle, at least. However, as a guy who has twice had expensive damage (one MAF sensor, one hydrolocked engine) due to not having a raised air intake, I'm happy to have mine now. If you have one and you use it, you still have to park it somewhere, and that somewhere is generally going to be near your house. You may actually use your vehicle in a variety of environments, so it may end up some time at a mall. That doesn't make you a poseur.

[ntsqd]

Never seen Nathan's around here. They've probably been outlawed by the non-native nannies that LA & SF elect to the indignation of us 3rd generation natives, and in the process turn the State into the joke that it is.

Really wouldn't surprise me if they see evil in snorkels and eventually outlaw them too. Might get a kid trapped in one of them or something. Or worse, one could suck up their wiener dog....

[BIGdaddy]

snorkel = win

hydrolocked 22re = lose

:)

[reece146]

I like the less dorky snorkels that conform the opening to the roof line. The UZJ100 has one available in this style. If there was such a thing for the XJ I'd buy one.

I'm mobile so don't want to scare up a picture of what I mean currently.

[LaOutbackTrail]

I like my dorkel snorkel....

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/224141_849213023751_1966128192_n.jpg

Considering the air intake is in the fenderwell of the Montero............... Dust and water intrusion? No thanks.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/16163_849215753281_1131114103_n.jpg

[crazyeyez]

i hope my poor weinner dog doesnt get sucked into a dorkle. lol. but with 4inch legs, how the heck she gonna get near it? lol

[Larry]

I like my dorkel snorkel....

Considering the air intake is in the fenderwell of the Montero............... Dust and water intrusion? No thanks.

Better look out, that little spider might get sucked into the air filter and plug it up! :ylsmoke:

[reece146]

I'm worried that the "normal" style of snorkel will get ripped off by trees. That's why I low the low profile version.

http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp132/RBIndustries/TJM%20%20Landcruiser%20%20Parts/TJMT15100SeriesBullbar.jpg

[ejohnson]

They dont really make them for my car, so, I made my own.

The car has locked awd, these pictures show my old tires, I have much larger on there now.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-EQW2ujotV7o/TmVrBGKq87I/AAAAAAAANJo/Ib71uT9lrOE/s800/DSCN0136.JPG
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LHjS_eU9L-0/TmVq--8mbfI/AAAAAAAANJo/C2-f5eqcbFY/s800/DSCN0137.JPG

[AndrewClarke]

They dont really make them for my car, so, I made my own.

The car has locked awd, these pictures show my old tires, I have much larger on there now.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-EQW2ujotV7o/TmVrBGKq87I/AAAAAAAANJo/Ib71uT9lrOE/s800/DSCN0136.JPG
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LHjS_eU9L-0/TmVq--8mbfI/AAAAAAAANJo/C2-f5eqcbFY/s800/DSCN0137.JPG

We need to know more about this BMW. I do, anyway.

[ejohnson]

lol, ok.

It is a 1988 325ix, its full time awd with locking diffs. The drivetrain is layed out very much like a truck is.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-wwQe99e9VlI/TciirjJhWaI/AAAAAAAAHtg/2VNNIPpNzOw/s800/325ix%2520drivetrain.jpg

I installed 2 inch lifts front and back along with some 30 inch tires.
Comes with a 2.5lt straight six engine and a 5 speed manual trans.

Front and rear valances were removed to allow for better angles in the front.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-9BUIeGIp8xg/TsgpT3_mDqI/AAAAAAAANPU/K4i3LHonymU/s800/DSCN9990.JPG

We currently use it to tow cars and trucks into the shop at my work, but when summer comes it is back out on the trails with the big trucks.


Future mods that I want to do are a winch in the front, gas tank armor, and fender flairs.

[bobDog]

We need to know more about this BMW. I do, anyway.

X2

Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk 2

[ejohnson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBsvlu8Z2Og


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z2k0YAgkKo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpE5aKu49jw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4zBzhaM7wc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DjV3xXusTQ

[eurosonic]

X2

Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk 2


X3 - PICS, INFO, you know the drill!

http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx73/eurosonik/GIFs/moar-cat.jpg
http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx73/eurosonik/GIFs/tehbeard.gif
http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx73/eurosonik/GIFs/R2qFh.gif

[AndrewClarke]

lol, ok.

It is a 1988 325ix, its full time awd with locking diffs. The drivetrain is layed out very much like a truck is.

It's interesting to see people using vehicles different from the norm. I didn't know these have locking diffs. Front/centre/rear, or what? Not limited slip?

- Andrew.

[ejohnson]

Center and rear are locking, they are viscouis coupled locking diffs. I have a extra set that are welded up for full locks.

[BIGdaddy]

I've only seen one other of those. In person, actually. It was a rust bucket from backeast but it had a nice paint job, and ran like a top. New owner brought it to our shop, and was getting a full tune-up done.

I remember him being daunted by the rust repairs required, but not dissuaded. :) He clearly loved that thing.

[ejohnson]

Rust is the main issue on these. BMW only imported about 3000 of them to the US from 1988-1991. Most of those went to the midwest and are now rusted out so bad. Alot of people also end up scrapping them due to high part costs (front axles are $1200 each)

Mine has some rust on it, but I just say those are my floor drains for water crossing :)

[trekrem]

so the thing about water crossings... it's only good if the water isn't fast enough or deep enough that your car loses traction. After that, you're flotsam (or is it jetsam?) along for the ride.

You would be flotsam... If you threw your GPS out the window in attempt to help the situation, the GPS unit would be jetsam. :088:

[Ristin]

I am so glad this thread has survived so long otherwise I would have never seen it. Learned a lot saw and some really COOL and unusual rigs. I'm new to this site, but thoroughly hooked. I've always wanted a snorkel on my truck (78 IH Scout Terra) but it's way down on the list of priorities. Since my carburetor is in pieces on the bench and the brake lines and shocks are not long enough for the recently installed 4" lift and the floor pans are rusted out and, and, and...

Here's a pic of another Scout I used to own: 1980 Scout II Turbo Diesel. A brand new Toyota went through before me and sucked in water. They pulled the sparks plugs and turned the engine over. Water shot several feet out of several cylinders. They reinstalled the plugs and the engine started right up. Lots of blue smoke and two distinct new knocking noises from the engine but we never saw the truck again so we assume they made it out. By brand new, I mean still had temporary registration paper in the window.

140698

[BotterbrodtGE]

Don't have a snorkel and i did fine. Then again, gotta love an old truck with the air breather on top of the engine and not hiding in the bottom of the fender. Snorkels are like many other mods. Not really necessary. These pics are from a full day in the woods driving through an average 2' of water, everyone else had 33's and up and I'm running around bone stock. But its what you want and if you'll enjoy it. I know that my old Jeep has gone more places than most modded 4wd trucks.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/12/a9e9udud.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/12/gasasa4y.jpg

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[cruiseroutfit]

Don't have a snorkel and i did fine. Then again, gotta love an old truck with the air breather on top of the engine and not hiding in the bottom of the fender. Snorkels are like many other mods. Not really necessary....

And just how necessary would you deem them if you were in 4' water rather than 2'?

The world isn't limited to 2' deep water ;)

[overlander]

All it takes is one front wheel going into an unseen pothole underwater. Role the dice.

[ntsqd]

All it takes is one front wheel going into an unseen pothole underwater. Role the dice.
Nowhere that I go or am likely to go has water deep enough to be a problem that wouldn't already be too dangerous to cross. No need in my case.


And.... they're still dorky looking!

[bobDog]

Nowhere that I go or am likely to go has water deep enough to be a problem that wouldn't already be too dangerous to cross. No need in my case.


And.... they're still dorky looking!

Half the drivers I see are dorky looking but they are still behind the wheel.:D

Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk 2

[Bergum]

Zukis need snorkel to follow.

B4x4.no

[craig333]

If I need one on my truck I'm turning around. The Jeep floats long before water reaches the air cleaner.

[Lynn]

//snip//The Jeep floats long before water reaches the air cleaner.

Not if you open the doors :)

I was stationed in Korea with the USAF and a couple of our sites required river crossings. I've driven the M151s with water flowing over the hood, but you have to flood them to get any traction.

[Zorro]

So this thread seems to have established that snorkels :
- may help with dust
- may be a last resort with water deeper than anticipated
- will make grumpy old men think you're a poseur

So what's the downside, exactly?
:snorkel:

[Bergum]

+1 Zorro.... :-)

B4x4.no

[craig333]

I don't know about m151s but my on my Jeep the doors are not water tight. Not that it would matter, I never have the doors on when I'm doing water crossings. Actually I try and have the doors and top on as little as possible. Hmmm, its march, might be time for the top to come off.

Grumpy? Sometimes, certainly.

[ntsqd]

So this thread seems to have established that snorkels :
- may help with dust
- may be a last resort with water deeper than anticipated
- will make grumpy old men think you're a poseur

So what's the downside, exactly?
:snorkel:
Already been stated back several pages. Pay attention.


And.... they're still dorky looking!

stir, stir, stir......

:)

[TangoBlue]

Nowhere that I go or am likely to go has water deep enough to be a problem that wouldn't already be too dangerous to cross. No need in my case.


And.... they're still dorky looking!


Already been stated back several pages. Pay attention.


stir, stir, stir......

:)

For those of you who have recently joined the portal or just opened this thread, the quoted posts are an occasional manifestation you will be come accustomed to if you frequent this site.

What you are witnessing above is described in this and other forums as "snorkel envy." Specifically, as is the case with this poor fellow ntsqd, the individual suffers from an underdeveloped or completely absent snorkel. They refute any rationale or advantage for those of us blessed with ample snorkels but they continue to stare down the hood of their vehicle imagining a snorkel attached to the flank of their truck and longing for adventure this life-saving device (also known as the "safety-snorkel" for we-in-the-know) can provide.

You can make this haunting image of an overlanding vehicle sans snorkel go away; it's a treatable malady with remedy's widely obtained through the internet and a few hand tools.

You can click onto the next subject or you can open your heart, and your wallet, to help this sad forum member.

For just a few cents a day you can make the tears and whining stop from ntsqd and others who are envious of others who have been blessed with great snorkels.

Save the Snorkel.

Operators are standing by...

[E.J.]

148005

[idaxj97]

Well said tangoblue well said my xj will be gaining a snorkel and im thinking when my wife gets her runner a snorkel will appear on it too. snorkels FTW!!!!

[AndrewClarke]

I didn't want to look dorky so I took my snorkel off. Plus, after reading on here how they're unneccessary, I decided to ignore my experience with the wrecked MAF sensor in my old Land Rover Discovery, or the hydrolocked engine in my 110 that precipitated the purchase of my snorkel. Plus, now I have a cool exposed external air intake that's a lot lower than my snorkel intake would have been. I'm trying to give my Land Rover the sort of naked café racer look.

148602

If anyone wants to buy my old Safari Snorkel for a 200tdi 110, let me know!

On a serious note, yes I removed my snorkel, but that's because I'm fitting an external cage and the Safari Snorkel won't really fit. I'll probably get one fabricated out of stainless steel that fits up against the cage.

[bobDog]

Build the cage around the snorkel to protect it.

Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk 2

[AndrewClarke]

Build the cage around the snorkel to protect it.

Now there's a man who takes his snorkels, and his cages, seriously. I bought a pre-made flat pack cage from Whitbread Off-road, and it's easier to fab/replace a snorkel than modify the cage.

[pappawheely]

For the Snorkel Naysayers. We went on a rescue late last year during the rainy season to recover a Jeep. There was puddles of water on the trail, he was done for the day and heading out, the trail was fairly flat so on the way out so he was rolling along at a decent clip (for offraod) and decided to splash thru one of the puddles that was maybe 6" deep. We have all done it and you see pics all the time of guys hammering thru deeper ones and you can just barely see the vehicle in the spray of water. Well, he hit the one in a thousand and the spray went up the air horn, thru the filter and ingested into the engine. He now has a new engine and said he was going to go with a Snorkel, prolly never happen to him again, but he said it was a small price for the safety and the benefits of the cleaner air were just added.



Same thing happened to me.

149716
149717

[overlander]

My last time in Brisbane Australia, I was surprised to walk around the city and find the taxi's and delivery trucks all had snorkels and bullbars. Imagine a Ford Taurus with a snorkel. Was it dorky? Yes. Was it functionally indispensable enough for a small business to invest in them? Yes.

It really comes down to this: If you choose to ignore the obvious and universally agreed to advantages of a raised air intake solely because it looks dorky, then you are choosing form over function. Form over function is the trademark of a poser.

My recommendation is everyone have an honest conversation with themselves about what their equipment needs are for overlanding or travel, completely absent of the influence of form or "looks", and determine what is required to get you safely there and back again. Once you do that, if you want to care about form, find a bumper sticker you like and stick it on the back of your rig.

I have a bullbar to protect my radiator from animal strike in remote areas, and a raised air intake to protect the investment in my engine from unintended water immersion.

If you have a raised air intake on your vehicle, and never leave the city you live in, then go ahead and have it chromed. you're a poser. Be proud of it. There is no functional need for it.

If you travel to remote destinations in your vehicle, and choose not to have raised air intake, then Darwin will be the judge of you. My recommendation is to have a bug out bag and a satellite phone or SPOT.

[bobDog]

Same thing happened to me.


149717
Hu......I'm having a problem w/ crossing the creek while what appears to be a bridge just to the left......I must be missing something or is this an official 'Snorkel Test Site' ?

[doug720]

It's rail road bridge. The crossing is the only way to cross without a 16 mile rough and slow alternate.

Doug

[toymaster]

^^^^^ Every since I saw the movie "Stand by Me" when I was a kid I've thought crossing a railroad bridge may not be the best idea. Good choice.

[overlander]

^^^^^ Every since I saw the movie "Stand by Me" when I was a kid I've thought crossing a railroad bridge may not be the best idea. Good choice.

And ever since I saw the movie Dante's Peak, I've always thought a snorkel was a good idea :)

[bobDog]

Ahhh...:D

Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk 2

[ntsqd]

Cause snorkels look so cool!!


I've only ever seen that Afton Canyon crossing claim a victim when they were idiots. The bottom is rock solid and it is never so deep that a sanely driven non-snorkeled rig would have water ingestion trouble.

[ZMagic97]

This was after a backed out a few feet. Even after doing a quick walk down I was unable to see the "shelf" I had dropped off of. Snorkel saved me that day. I haven't needed it much, but one time makes it worth it.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b371/Haintani/DSC02037_zps21235e5f.jpg

[toymaster]

^^^^^^^^ The perfect example of why one may need a snorkel. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

[ZMagic97]

^^^^^^^^ The perfect example of why one may need a snorkel. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

That's my mindset. I honestly thought it wasn't a wise purchase after a while, but after this photo was taken I was glad I had it.

[Buliwyf]

This was after a backed out a few feet. Even after doing a quick walk down I was unable to see the "shelf" I had dropped off of. Snorkel saved me that day. I haven't needed it much, but one time makes it worth it.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b371/Haintani/DSC02037_zps21235e5f.jpg

Where exactly were you planning on going???

That's the perfect pic to illustrate the difference between 4wheeling to get somewhere, and 4wheeling just for the fun of it.

[AndrewClarke]

That's the perfect pic to illustrate the difference between 4wheeling to get somewhere, and 4wheeling just for the fun of it.

...not that there's anything inherently wrong in either, although this is "Expedition Portal" rather than "Redneck Hollow" ... sorry ZMagic97 :-).

Maybe if you're perfect you don't need a snorkel. I know I'm not perfect, and my truck has a snorkel.

[ZMagic97]

All good AndrewClarke :)

Straight ahead of my Jeep there was another beach like area that I wanted to get to. I was going to go across for a snorkel test/just for fun.

[SOAZ]

And we have a winner!
Snorkel war over.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5fe_1364168341

[Buliwyf]

All good AndrewClarke :)

Straight ahead of my Jeep there was another beach like area that I wanted to get to. I was going to go across for a snorkel test/just for fun.

LOLz.

Well, I'm just south of Lake Erie and would love to see what a sunset over water from Canada looks like. Time to test my snorkel!