Snorkel Wars [Archive] - Expedition Portal

goodtimes

08-27-2006, 11:02 PM

Of all the snorkle topics, I'm finally going to respond to one.

Now, most of you that know me, know I don't coat things in sugar. I tell it like I see it, or I just keep my mouth shut. Usually the former.

So, without further delay.....here is a re-creation of a conversation I once had with a mall cruiser in 4 wheel parts out in LA....

"Why don't you put a snorkle on your jeep"

Me: "because they are for mall cruisers"

Him: "but they will save your engine if you are ever in deep water"

Me: "probably not, no one ever does all the other stuff needed to take advantage of the snorkle, and they suffer just as much damage with it as without it".

Him: "no way, I'd never go 'wheeling without one. You never know when you will cross a stream that is deeper than your airbox."

Me: "proper speed will give you a bow wave that will keep water out of your engine compartment. I have had bow waves higher than my hood, and never had a problem with sucking water into my engine."

Him: "But if you would have gotton stuck, you would have sucked water into your engine".

Me: "Yea, but even with a snorkle, if you don't extend your exhaust higher than water line, you will have water run into the engine via the exhaust system as soon as your engine shuts off....and it will shut off, because no one properly seals the electronics package before playing submarine. Not to mention destroying your radiator with the fan because as soon as that water rushes into the engine compartment your fan becomes a propeller and proceeds to deflect and eat the radiator."

Him: "You just gotta know how fast to drive through the water, and you'll be fine"

Me: "Is there an echo in the showroom?"

:smilies27

IMO, if you don't do the whole thing (seal the electronics, install an electric fan w/cut-off switch, raise the exhaust, extend the gearbox vents, and seal whatever else you don't want to get wet), a snorkle is of little value. Sure, they catch attention (and in some cases this is what you want), but 99.99 x 10^152 times, they are just like chrome...there for the show and that's it.

I'll leave now before I get hit in the head with a snorkle.....;)

Boston Mangler

08-27-2006, 11:17 PM

IMO, if you don't do the whole thing (seal the electronics, install an electric fan w/cut-off switch, raise the exhaust, extend the gearbox vents, and seal whatever else you don't want to get wet), a snorkle is of little value. Sure, they catch attention (and in some cases this is what you want), but 99.99 x 10^152 times, they are just like chrome...there for the show and that's it.

Well Said! Mirrors my thoughts exactly! :ylsmoke:

DaktariEd

08-27-2006, 11:34 PM

jeffryscott

08-27-2006, 11:40 PM

I put my snorkel on for one primary reason: with the body lift on my little truck, I exposed the intake (or at least feared I did) by having to trim the plastic fender liner below the intake (passenger side, inner fender).

I wasn't as worried about a water crossing as I was about the way the streets in Tucson flood during the monsoon. I was afraid of dropping into a hole where there was no bow wave or generally approved way of crossing and sucking water up.

I figured it was better insurance to have, than not to. Because I have the type of job I do, when it rains, I often have to be out when everybody else is told to stay in.

The Suzuki is pretty good from the factory: breather lines are up high in the engine compartment for the front and high in the inside, electronics are also high inside (alternator is a little low) but with any bow waves, I'm sure it is safe. The snorkel provides peace of mind for the reasons given above. Plust it looks cool.:ylsmoke:

Jeff

Ursidae69

08-28-2006, 12:40 AM

Reasonable thoughts of course.

But the Aussies (and others) make a very good point for snorkel use to draw cleaner air. (See Australian 4WD Monthly).

The Camino del Diablo Trail is a good example...some really powdery dust in places there. A snorkel would be an advantage, no?

Ed

I don't know if I buy that cleaner air argument. Some hard data needs to be collected. That would be a fun project. :lurk:

goodtimes

08-28-2006, 01:22 AM

I put my snorkel on for one primary reason: with the body lift on my little truck, I exposed the intake (or at least feared I did) by having to trim the plastic fender liner below the intake (passenger side, inner fender).

This may be a valid concern Jeff. I'm not sure how your intake is set up.

There are definately situations where having a snorkle would be beneficial. But rarely do people *actually* need them. There is probably a higher percentage of users on this board that need them, than there is in the general public....but every time I see one, I still think "Mall Cruiser".:wavey:

goodtimes

08-28-2006, 01:25 AM

I don't know if I buy that cleaner air argument. Some hard data needs to be collected. That would be a fun project. :lurk:

This would be relatively easy to verify Chuck. We just need 2 vehicles [one with snorkle, one without] the same lift height, tire size and type, a decent lab scale, a pair of new OEM air filters, and a nice dusty road......:truck:

Grim Reaper

08-28-2006, 01:29 AM

Of all the snorkle topics, I'm finally going to respond to one.

Now, most of you that know me, know I don't coat things in sugar. I tell it like I see it, or I just keep my mouth shut. Usually the former.

So, without further delay.....here is a re-creation of a conversation I once had with a mall cruiser in 4 wheel parts out in LA....

"Why don't you put a snorkle on your jeep"

Me: "because they are for mall cruisers"

Him: "but they will save your engine if you are ever in deep water"

Me: "probably not, no one ever does all the other stuff needed to take advantage of the snorkle, and they suffer just as much damage with it as without it".

Him: "no way, I'd never go 'wheeling without one. You never know when you will cross a stream that is deeper than your airbox."

Me: "proper speed will give you a bow wave that will keep water out of your engine compartment. I have had bow waves higher than my hood, and never had a problem with sucking water into my engine."

Him: "But if you would have gotton stuck, you would have sucked water into your engine".

Me: "Yea, but even with a snorkle, if you don't extend your exhaust higher than water line, you will have water run into the engine via the exhaust system as soon as your engine shuts off....and it will shut off, because no one properly seals the electronics package before playing submarine. Not to mention destroying your radiator with the fan because as soon as that water rushes into the engine compartment your fan becomes a propeller and proceeds to deflect and eat the radiator."

Him: "You just gotta know how fast to drive through the water, and you'll be fine"

Me: "Is there an echo in the showroom?"

:smilies27

IMO, if you don't do the whole thing (seal the electronics, install an electric fan w/cut-off switch, raise the exhaust, extend the gearbox vents, and seal whatever else you don't want to get wet), a snorkel is of little value. Sure, they catch attention (and in some cases this is what you want), but 99.99 x 10^152 times, they are just like chrome...there for the show and that's it.

I'll leave now before I get hit in the head with a snorkle.....;)

The whole irony here is a snorkels primary design is for Silt not water. It helps with water is the side benefit not the primary.

I have packed the air box full of silt in drought time to the point I have had to stop and buy a new air cleaner. A Snorkel would have helped with that by getting the air from a higher source that was not carrying as large of quantity of airborne silt.

bigreen505

08-28-2006, 01:48 AM

I have packed the air box full of silt in drought time to the point I have had to stop and buy a new air cleaner. A Snorkel would have helped with that by getting the air from a higher source that was not carrying as large of quantity of airborne silt.

Well, I don't have any great stories like that, but I have had to vacuum 1/4" or sand and heavy dust out of my air filter box and that was after only about three days (maybe 10-15 miles at the absolute maximum in the sand), and I know the gunk would not have been there had the system not been pulling air from the wheel well. Even a K&N style cone filter would have been okay.

GT, for balance, I pulled my air filter when we got to the camp spot near Mt. Elbert and there was no accumulation in the air box to speak of, even after running Westin pass and the other road in a total dust fog. I guess the sand/dirt/silt that has a little mass to it is the problem, the dust that is totally airborne not so much.

With the water issue, my feeling is that if you are going to the trouble to install a snorkel, you might as well finish the job with the electrical stuff too. On the Pathfinders that meant putting the ECU in a tupperware container and cutting and siliconing holes for the wires.

Besides, all the cool kids have 'em.

Blair G

08-28-2006, 02:16 AM

The whole irony here is a snorkels primary design is for Silt not water. It helps with water is the side benefit not the primary.

I have packed the air box full of silt in drought time to the point I have had to stop and buy a new air cleaner. A Snorkel would have helped with that by getting the air from a higher source that was not carrying as large of quantity of airborne silt.

I was going to mention the same thing. My 110 was used by an English gentleman will touring Austrailia. Had the engine rebuilt there because of the bull dust that he experienced. After the rebuild he added a tractor cyclonic pre filter to the system. You can see it mounted on the left front wing. Not very sexy but gets the job done. I would llike to mount it up higher as it makes a blind spot.
Blair

http://i.pbase.com/g2/11/30811/2/65867911.MnX8ohyL.jpg

flyingwil

08-28-2006, 02:32 AM

MMM... looky what I started!

To quote the master himself:

Cleaner Air:
A properly engineered raised air intake system is a critical component of outfitting a vehicle for expedition travel; though it's most significant merit is not its most commonly perceived intent. Living in the southwest and traveling along miles of dusty tracks has shown me the benefits of raising the air intake high above the road surface, where the majority of the heavier dust concentration collects. When dust and dirt is stirred by the foregoing vehicle, the particles will separate by their specific gravity, with the majority settling several feet above the ground and lower. Though the dust generated by a fast moving vehicle can reach significant height, the greatest volume of particulates will have only reached an elevation of a few feet above the road surface, which is where the raised intake benefits.

Note on fitting a cyclone (donaldson type) filter: It is typical for a raised air intake used on stationary equipment and slow moving implements to be fitted with a cyclone type pre cleaner. These units are very effective when stationary or at slow speeds (below 40kph), but are useless at higher velocities as the suction created at the higher travel rates disturbs the cyclone effect. the units also must be quite large to allow sufficient airflow to the engine and cannot be used at highway speeds (80 kph and higher) without damage or loss. The pre cleaner has little use in real world trekking where high road speeds are often encountered.

Fording:
As expected, the raised air intake is a requirement for deep water fording. Many SUV's can begin ingesting water at even bumper height crossings. Water does not compress as air does, and even a small amount of water sucked into the engine can lead to valvetrain damage. When properly fitted and sealed, the raised air intake will draw air from near roof height, well above a typical crossing.

Other Considerations When Fording: Raising the air intake is just one component of deep water fording. When fitted to a gasoline engine it is necessary to ensure the high voltage ignition system is also capable of attaining the same depth. Some of the better designed gas motors now use distributorless ignitions, which are actually well sealed. The Trooper, UZJ100 and Tacoma (as do others) all use a coil on plug design which is far superior to a distributor. Special attention must also be placed on differential and gearbox breathers, taking those lines to the highest point in the engine (or even tapped into the snorkel system). Never attempt to cross water that is over hood height, and avoid crossing fast moving sources exceeding the vehicles tire height.

Bottom Line: I want want one, they look cool, and might help out. :hehe:

Oh yeah and increases the safety of my family!

gjackson

08-28-2006, 02:43 AM

Blair G

08-28-2006, 02:44 AM

"Note on fitting a cyclone (donaldson type) filter: It is typical for a raised air intake used on stationary equipment and slow moving implements to be fitted with a cyclone type pre cleaner. These units are very effective when stationary or at slow speeds (below 40kph), but are useless at higher velocities as the suction created at the higher travel rates disturbs the cyclone effect. the units also must be quite large to allow sufficient airflow to the engine and cannot be used at highway speeds (80 kph and higher) without damage or loss. The pre cleaner has little use in real world trekking where high road speeds are often encountered."

FWIW the cyclonic filter on the Rover appears to be big enough. No problems traveling at over 100k's per hour. The fact that it works at 40 kph is OK since traveling anything above that in true dust is unsafe. Can't see anything and it punishes the vehicle. Also, while I can't verify it, those people who use there 4wd's a whole bunch swear by the OEM paper elements. K&N style filters are not up to the continues use off road.
YMMV,
Blair

mountainpete

08-28-2006, 03:16 AM

Snorkel - HUH! - What is it good for? (it's hard typing music)
http://www.markdstephens.com/trail_42/watercrossing.jpg

This weekend, Wil was justifying a snorkel to his lovely wife over the campfire. And this turned into a fun topic for everyone, and I thought it might be fun here.

Once upon a time I penned the following and Aaron reminded me of it. Here it is:

Scott promptly corrected me and summed it all up: "It's for the safety of your family." As if that was that. (and when HE speaks, that usually IS that)

So...thoughts, additions, detractions, jokes, tales, other abridged lists?

:ylsmoke:

Mark - this is too darn funny!!! I was having this exact conversation with my wife at the campfire last night too!

We were up in central Alberta and were on a bunch of serverly dusty road, along with a few side trips where we - let's just say - got the truck a bit dirty in some mud holes on route.

We agreed at the end of it all that snorkels are FARKLE. In case you don't know farkle is, it is Functional Sparkle. It's a motorcycling term, but it applies well to us sometimes. Snorkels are functional - we all know that they do work in certain circumstance. But, and maybe more importantly, they just look darn cool!

I don't care what anyone says... I want one. :D

DaveInDenver

08-28-2006, 03:56 AM

I've got to agree with GT. I've done thousands of miles in Africa including hundreds (I'm not joking) that included bull dust or fesh fesh, and my air cleaner (K&N in a 110) wasn't close to capacity when I cleaned it (with no snorkel). And I only cleaned it twice in 30,000 miles. The argument that you get cleaner air is dependant on what type of car you are in and where the air pick up is. In the 300tdi 110 it is in a very good place for convoy work. For other makes, I don't know. It's one of those arguments that seems to make sense for everyone, but every car maker puts the air pickup in a different place, and will get different air flow. There is no blanket statement that will work for everyone.

Snorkels for me would be for dust primarily. The air intake on my Hilux is behind the left side headlight, which is about 6 inches higher than the stock ECU location and alternator, probably a good foot higher than the starter. I've raised my axle breathers to spots higher than the air intake, so my low point is really the tailpipe. Although since the bend in the intermediate pipe between the muffler and tailpipe goes up and around the axle, the real low point is actually roughly equal to the top of my tires.

BTW, I put in a K&N right after buying my truck and around 10K miles later when I tore into the engine to replace the timing chain, noticed that my intake was filthy with a fine dust. I started doing used oil analysis and was surprised at how much silica they found (around 65 ppm). That level is usually considered severe duty and usually means really short oil change intervals. I typically follow ~4K intevals on Castrol Syntec.

I promptly went back to stock Toyota filters. I now get around 5 to 10 ppm silica. The K&N certainly didn't clog like my stock filters do. But, it appeared that the reason it wasn't dirty is that it does not do a particularly good job at stopping the fine dust. As it is I replace the filter about 2 or 3 times a year, which I'd rather do than keep ingesting dirt. I recommend to everyone I know that uses a stock-fit K&N to have an analysis done (really everyone should do them periodically). Compare the silica numbers with a good traditional filter (cheap thin-paper Frams don't count) and a K&N, since silica is just a measure of how much external dirt is being sucked into the engine.

To be fair, I also noticed that the stock filters fit more snug into the air box than the K&N, so I could have been sucking dust around the edges of the filter, too. But I'm careful to wipe a coating of grease on the frame before putting a filter in, so I'm not sure that I was getting all that much coming around the edges.

goodtimes

08-28-2006, 06:50 AM

To those stating problems with dust.....I have never, and I mean NEVER had to clean dust out of any of the air boxes on any of my vehicles. I'm not saying no one else has either, because obviously I have not driven every make/model of vehicle under every condition...not even close! But it is a problem I have never encountered.

But since we are on the subject, and several people have mentioned K&N air filters.....I used to run one of these in my chevy. The problem I always had was keeping it wet with oil. There was enough dust that it would literally dry it out so I would have to clean and re-oil it on a fairly regular basis (about every 4 - 6 weeks). Obviously, everyones results will vary, but it is something to keep an eye on. I no longer use these filters. High quality paper filters is the way to go IMO.

HenryJ

08-28-2006, 12:28 PM

...I have never, and I mean NEVER had to clean dust out of any of the air boxes on any of my vehicles...
If you get up my way in the summer months, I'll have to take you on a Dry Creek Expedition. The clay up there forms a very fine powder that flows like water. There are places on the trail it can be two feet deep. This can easily drown an intake in only one pass. Bow waves just don't work the same for clay/silt flows since it beomes an airbourne hazard. You do have to maintain speed or be swallowed by the cloud. Oh, and being the leader is better than being led :D

If a snorkel were available that would work for my truck , I would have one. Cleaner air would be nice.

articulate

08-28-2006, 02:19 PM

Mark - this is too darn funny!!! I was having this exact conversation with my wife at the campfire last night too!

We were up in central Alberta and were on a bunch of serverly dusty road, along with a few side trips where we - let's just say - got the truck a bit dirty in some mud holes on route.

We agreed at the end of it all that snorkels are FARKLE. In case you don't know farkle is, it is Functional Sparkle. It's a motorcycling term, but it applies well to us sometimes. Snorkels are functional - we all know that they do work in certain circumstance. But, and maybe more importantly, they just look darn cool!

I don't care what anyone says... I want one. :D
Well, I'm glad you found this topic funny, too. And I share your thoughts: I don't care what anyone says... I want one.

Otherwise, I'm going to kick back and watch the battle-of-the-dust-theory. I didn't intend a super serious conversation about these things, but it certainly brought out the opinions. :1888fbbd:

OverlandZJ

08-28-2006, 02:21 PM

I went wheeling with CShontz from this board years ago, we were at Paragon adventure park in winter. The week prior brought an ice storm and heavy snow.

The day we were wheeling was warmer and we ran a trail called Pipeline that included a small stream crossing. Stream was not so small that day with runoff and melting. We dipped into the stream and followed it maybe 40 yards downstream where i had water to my headlight. My air intake is behind the headlight.

I had just installed a new reman'd engine. Once out of the streambed i popped the hood and there was water on my airfilter. I ordered a Snorkel soon after thinking it was cheaper than replacing an engine again.

On the dust...i have logged many miles in Northern Maine on the logging roads usually following another vehicle (Cowboy here) and have not had an issue with dust clogging my K&N. But i'm sure the silt out your way and in pics i'v seen of Baja area are much more severe.

Snorkel and Rain.....the design of my ARB has a low 180 degree bend in the hose that is supposed to collect any water from traveling in rain. I'v always wondered if i should turn the intake head around in a heavy downpour?

Enjoying this Thread....most snorkel threads on the Jeep forums equate a snorkel to mall posing.

:smiley_drive:

Desertdude

08-28-2006, 04:04 PM

the snorkel is nothing and not complete until you have installed the Snokel switch and Snorkel light...

Snorkel = more dust and bugs in the filter - plain and simple :peepwall:

chicks dig the Snorkel - chicks dig Guitar - need I say more? :rockon:

....now where is that Snorkel smiley

:::

BajaXplorer

08-28-2006, 04:40 PM

Snorkle...Schmorkle
I won't do water so deep that I need a snorkle. I mean water sooo deep that I REALLY need a snorkle.
If the person in front of me is making a lot of dust...I fall back some.
I carry extra air filters and change them when necessary.
The K&N I tried for a while has been sitting in the garage for a couple of years. Any of you are welcome to it.
I hate it when I get sucked in to responding to threads like this.
BX

Scenic WonderRunner

08-28-2006, 05:35 PM

OK..OK.....

I got sucked into the thread!

I just hope I never end up like THIS GUY!

I love my truck too much to do something this silly!

So maybe if I DON'T have a Snorkle........I won't get sucked in!:sombrero:

See puke green old Ford Bronco....stuck in Verde River with door open and "a river runs through it"!:smilies27

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i156/ScenicWonderRunner/FordToTheRescue02.jpg

+ d

08-28-2006, 05:49 PM

Like many accessories we put on our trucks, 95% of the time 95% of us will never really need it. But the inherent idea behind being prepared is having stuff you probably won't need, but might. The trick is to not let upgrades (winch, locker, snorkel, etc) fool your ego into situations that you shouldn't be in.

Functionality aside, I personally think they look cool, but it would be a hard sell for the wife and on this particular truck I would have a hard time cutting a hole my fender. So for now if I can have a snorkel on the jeep I'll have to settle for a Snork...

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0009J6JAW.01-A9UGHYQQDYS31.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Boston Mangler

08-28-2006, 05:53 PM

The trick is to not let upgrades (winch, locker, snorkel, etc) fool your ego into situations that you shouldn't be in.

Very good point!

Scott Brady

08-28-2006, 06:10 PM

Snorkel use depends on the application. Traditional diesels and direct ignition gas motors are well sealed.

I have driven my Tacoma with water well over the hood without issue because of the Snorkel. I have been forced (by the Policia) to drive down a river in Batopilas Mexico because of an election celebration that closed the town.

Batopilas River Crossing Video (http://www.expeditionswest.com/adventures/2004/sierra_madre/batopilas_crossing.wmv) The shallowest of three crossings.

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/tacoma/IMG_0432.JPG

There is no question in my mind that a snorkel is appropriate and required for what I do.

Now the dust stuff.... I am not convinced of the standard snorkels effectiveness.

I should also change my comments on the snorkel install review Wil posted regarding the Cyclone prefilter. They work great!!!!! Even well above 120 kph. They catch lots of dust and should be cleaned daily.

http://www.expeditionswest.com/adventures/2006/outback_challenge/event/D7_18.JPG

OutbacKamper

08-28-2006, 06:43 PM

There is no question in my mind that a snorkel is appropriate and required for what I do.

:iagree:

In Australia even the buses have snorkles! When we were in Oz, the creeks and rivers were quite low, however when Sven and Magdelana (www.xxxpedition) crossed some of the same water the next year (after a much wetter and later than normal wet season) the water was over their hood. In fact in Cape York they had to duct tape the doors shut inorder keep the water out of their Jeep!
The bow wave theory is great, but does not always work. As previously stated, if you get stuck or have to stop for any reason you are hooped. Also some crossings require a very low speed that does nor create a bow wave (ie: Cockatoo Creek in Cape York, were you have to steer around large underwater potholes)
Like many modifications discussed on this forum there are some who do it for looks and some who do it for function.

Cheers
Mark

cshontz

08-28-2006, 07:03 PM

Snorkels serve a purpose - I don't think there's any disputing it. Although, I think relatively few truly need to take advantage of its benefits. Whether one performs additional waterproofing or not, a snorkel still helps to prevent catastrophic engine failure. I am pro-being-prepared, thus I am pro-snorkel. :cool:

That was good times, John! :friday:

upcruiser

08-28-2006, 07:07 PM

I don't know about anyone else here, but I noticed a difference in dust collection in air box of my 80 with the snorkel. I'm with the "better to have it when you need it" group here. There are some water crossings in the region that I live in that had my old 60 series up to its headlights and made me nervous. When I built up my 80 I decided, for the money, it was a wise investment to have. Yes, there is definately a bling factor and I am always surprised by just how much attention it gets. You'd think by now, with how many you see on 4X4's that the oooh factor would go away, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Joaquin Suave

08-28-2006, 10:15 PM

GREAT THREAD!!!!

Goodtimes summed it pretty damn well!

so did BX

Snorkle...Schmorkle
I won't do water so deep that I need a snorkle. I mean water sooo deep that I REALLY need a snorkle.
If the person in front of me is making a lot of dust...I fall back some.
I carry extra air filters and change them when necessary.

BX

I did a lot of water crossings when I lived in and explored Central America in the late 70's and early 80's. Here are couple of things I learned about h20 crossing then.

Standing water and moving water are 2 different beasts entirely.

The road (double track) crossing a moving river will usually get real wide on both sides of the river so that a driver can cross diagonally using the force of the river to "push" the vehicle to the other side.

Driving too wide on the high or low side of the crossing, you are going to find some REALLY NASTY holes where the "less fortunate" meet their demise.

In the tropics, rain comes in the afternoons (on the Guanacaste, you could set your watch by the rain storms) and the rivers quickly swell. Travelling in the late afternoon or evenings in not such a good idea. Drive in the morning and surf evening glass-off.

When in doubt get out and walk it. Walking the creek may help you find the holes...But more importantly...It will provide very memorable entertainment for the locals (Yo Chewi! Check out "Johnny Quest the Gringo" seeing if the crossing is safe for his big expensive american 4x4).

If the river dosen't get you the bank on the opposite side will.

If its a deep crossing, stop and let your motor cool down so that the cold water dosen't crack your hot exaust manifold.

***

I was with a friend (in Costa Rica)when he sunk his Isuzu forward control truck in a swollen creek one evening after eating dinner and drinking WAY too many beers. We strung our hammocks from the stake sides and spent the night in the middle of the creek. The next morning we got a tractor to pull us out, then my buddy drained the h20 from the engine oil and deisel tank and we loaded up then took off on the road again!

Scott Brady

08-28-2006, 10:41 PM

Of all the snorkle topics, I'm finally going to respond to one.

What about your Chiva trip with John? Didn't you have water in the airbox?

As a more general comment to this thread:

IMHO, if you seek these things out (remote travel), or drive in areas that require deep fords, get the snorkel. A dead motor (no spark) is entirely different than a hydrolocked motor.

To some, a severe challenge requires them to turn around. To others, the challenge is appreciated, or part of a competition. Figure out what group you are in and build the truck appropriately.

cshontz

08-28-2006, 11:03 PM

http://static.flickr.com/59/197177297_64e716342a_b.jpg

BajaTaco

08-29-2006, 12:04 AM

On my Toyota tacoma, the stock intake is inside the right fender. This is probably in a bow-wake safe zone in most situations, but I don't see any good reason not to relocate it to a higher position, especially if ARB makes a bolt-on part that fits the truck perfectly. In the event of a deep water crossing, it will at least maximize any chance that I might have to prevent sucking water into the engine and dealing with hydrolock. If the truck has become immobile, I can shut the engine off. I may end up with water in the engine due to the exhaust, but at least the pistons will not be pounding water. As far as the radiator goes, it's the same deal - if the truck gets stuck and starts to take water in the engine bay, you can turn the engine off. Am I wrong?
Anyway, I am off to the mall... See you guys later :wavey:

asteffes

08-29-2006, 12:46 AM

It seems to me there are some advantages to the snorkel besides puting the air intake up high and keeping water out. One could wrap cheesecloth or similar material around the snorkel opening to pre-clean the air. On a long-distance trip this may really help cut down on the dirt that reaches the airbox and/or clogs the main air filter. One could also rotate the intake to face the rear to keep it out of the direct path of airborne debris.

I suppose it's a much-less-elegant approach to the cyclonic filter doodads but it would be cheap insurance.

Desertdude

08-29-2006, 12:54 AM

I liked having it in Alaska - I am thinking of the cyclone for the top when I am on dusty roads

Life_in_4Lo

08-29-2006, 01:11 AM

My snorkel is a big dust magnet...

of course it's been sitting on the shelf for almost a year now... hehe.

Desertdude

08-29-2006, 01:13 AM

My snorkel is a big dust magnet...

of course it's been sitting on the shelf for almost a year now... hehe.

:victory: :littlefriend:

cruiseroutfit

08-29-2006, 01:33 AM

Seems this topic pops up every couple months once place or the other.

Sure, its not done 100% to par if everything else isn't sealed... but sealing everything else is fairly easy IMHO, we do it on all the snorkel installs we do.

I'm not going to argue a snorkel is for everyone, then again neither is a winch or welder... ;)

I've personally seen snorkels save many a motors (including my own)...

The line from the left of the AC housing goes down to the dizzy. The gearbox's/axles go to the snorkel and I still need to get around to plumbing the ARB compressor to the snorkel. My compressor is ~4' off the ground and took on water once, trashed the pump. What are the odds it would cycles during the couple minutes I was in the water... :088:

cruiseroutfit

08-29-2006, 01:37 AM

http://www.4x4panama.com/Tapage/paseos/santaisabel2006/part2/tencha-rio3.jpg

The story .. some drinks, nice trip with friends, we need to cross the river. I walk the right way to cross teh river, no more than 4 feets deep. Again some drinks and I take the wrong way fortunately, some buddyes winchme back and no more problmes than my camera and my bag in the water ( the water inside my Cruiser over my passenger sit ) my engine running hole time ..

I see some humidity in my air box, maybe after 20 min inder water .. I thought is fine ..

Tell him snorkels are for mall cruisers ;)

cruiseroutfit

08-29-2006, 01:41 AM

Oh yeah, I must add... the ease of sealing up the rig is going to depend on the rig obviously. Later model Landcruisers (and those with upgraded components) have an o-ring sealed dizzy, so you can literally just plumb to the nipple on the dizzy cap and plug the other and you are fine. The axles are easy to seal, they come with fittings from the factory, the trans/tc will take a bit more work as the line is on the top of the gearboxes, all in all not an issue.

Exhaust is only an issue if your motor is likely to stall... I have had my Cruiser in 3'+ water countless times with my exhaust (sits ~25" up) under, it gurgles away... sure if it dies your in trouble, but thats all part of the game ;)

goodtimes

08-29-2006, 02:57 AM

This isn't as big of a can-0-worms as I figured it would be by now.

Like I said...they have their applications. There are a few people running around that would be wise to have one....but if DesertDude is correct in that they are "chick magnets".....I'm gonna go get two!:elkgrin: (i need all the help I can get.....those of you who were around for the "OH! Your the guy with the dog that pukes!" story know what I am talking about.)

articulate

08-29-2006, 03:31 AM

Can-o-worms? HA! It came close. Although, more snorkel detractors showed up than I thought existed around here. :violent-smiley-031:

I have to say, though, the conversation at the campfire was far more laced with jest. Such is the internet. It's often hard to tell when someone is joking, anyway.

What remains is that each of us is allowed to do what ever we want to our vehicles, regardless of the practical - or impractical - value of the mods. Which is what makes conversation about the mods so fun and intriguing.

datrupr

08-29-2006, 03:39 AM

OK, Mark, I finally have to chime in on this one. Who gives a crap?! Now that I am single, and reading the awesome anecdotes about what girls were saying to you guys with snorkels, it has become a must have for the Trooper. Besides, how many snorkeled 98 Troopers do you see cruising around? Looks cool, is functional, and chicks dig em. Enough said. I think this thread should be locked now.:sombrero:

datrupr

08-29-2006, 03:40 AM

Oh, and I also forgot to add the most important part that Scott taught us about snorkels this weekend....... They increase the safety factor of your vehicle ten fold. Remember that Wendy.:jump:

goodtimes

08-29-2006, 03:42 AM

Yes, there are quite a few here who aren't big snorkle fans. But that shouldn't stop anyone from buying something they want or feel they need. Afterall, it is their vehicle and their money. Not everyone prioritizes things like I (or anyone else) does. But regardless of how much I do or don't like them...they are still better than fake beadlocks!:violent-smiley-031:

articulate

08-29-2006, 03:46 AM

But regardless of how much I do or don't like them...they are still better than fake beadlocks!:violent-smiley-031:
:xxrotflma
:xxrotflma
:xxrotflma

(I love the violent smiley.)

articulate

08-29-2006, 03:49 AM

FlyingWen

08-29-2006, 03:57 AM

Snorkel - HUH! - What is it good for? (it's hard typing music)

This weekend, Wil was justifying a snorkel to his lovely wife over the campfire.
Scott promptly corrected me and summed it all up: "It's for the safety of your family." As if that was that. (and when HE speaks, that usually IS that)
I will have you know that since that enlightening campfire snorkle conversation, I have been overwhelmed by truck necessities from Wil.... "but it is for our safety, Honey". I was even told about a travel toilet with privacy tent so I would not have to worry about a mean old snake slithering up behind me and introducing itself!
Normally he is a sweet, mild mannered husband. After a weekend with the "portal gang" he starts acting like a kid looking through the window of a toy store at Christmas!!:Wow1:

datrupr

08-29-2006, 04:03 AM

Don't you go blaming us for corrupting your sweet, innocent, little Wil. I WILL NOT STAND FOR BEING CALLED AN INSTIGATOR!!!!:p

BajaTaco

08-29-2006, 04:18 AM

This isn't as big of a can-0-worms as I figured it would be by now.

I dunno, I think you did pretty good! 5 pages, 48 posts, and 645 views in only one day, 6 hours. That may be a new ExPo record ;)

Now go to the mall and buy some snorkels... you need something to overshadow that dog puke story... :xxrotflma

+ d

08-29-2006, 05:23 AM

...they are still better than fake beadlocks!

:ar15:

OverlandZJ

08-29-2006, 01:50 PM

After a weekend with the "portal gang" he starts acting like a kid looking through the window of a toy store at Christmas!!:Wow1:

:xxrotflma :hehe:

Dont we all?! I'm afraid after i attend the first large gathering with this group i'll have a desire for on board internet,satelite phone,James Bond type navigation,Margarita dispensor,solar power and Bacon for B-Fast/Lunch and dinner.

:wings: But i cant wait to meet more of this group. :jumping:

DaktariEd

08-29-2006, 03:47 PM

Snorkels are chick magnets????
Cool! :victory:
Where do I order mine?

:sombrero:

Ursidae69

08-29-2006, 04:04 PM

I liked having it in Alaska - I am thinking of the cyclone for the top when I am on dusty roads

DD, that is a hella sweet photo you posted of the 80. That is a bow wave!

Blair G

08-29-2006, 04:06 PM

Now yer talkin'! Being unique is a really good reason for the snorkel. That's a good function, IMO.

Unique, just like the rest of us.
Blair

BajaXplorer

08-29-2006, 04:23 PM

Love the pictures of 4x4s obviously stuck in deep water situations. Some of us think the snorkle saved them, others (like me) think they would not be there in the first place if they had no snorkle.
I am a lot less likely to tempt fate by not having a snorkle. And that does not make me unappreciative of challenges. Also, here in the desert, a deep water crossing usually means a recent storm and fast moving water that can wash you away. Waiting for it to receed is generally considered good common sense.
There are many vehicles out there with snorkles that are just for promoting a pseudo Indiana Jones persona. And there are also many that serve a more mundane purpose, keeping water out of the engine. I suspect there are more of the former than the latter. I have no problem with snorkles (hell! it's your vehicle and your money), but I do not consider one necessary for myself. This is (of course) subject to change given some yet unplanned expedition.
As for fake beadlocks...
BX

FortyMileDesert

08-29-2006, 04:43 PM

I'm a veteran of 85 off-road treks now in my Land Rovers over the past 4 1/2 years. 95% of these treks in northern Nevada. That said, and for my particular rigs and the areas that I wander, a snorkel is absolutely non-essential:

If you are trying to cross anything over about 20 inches deep in northern Nevada it will be a raging flood torrent or a reservoir; neither of which anyone sane should attempt.

As far as preventing dust ingestion into the filter; forget it. The dust clouds usually exceed 40 feet in height and the air entering from inside the fenders is oh so much cleaner.

Best results here are to stick with the oem paper filters, keep all the connections tight, change the filter about every 8000 miles, vacuum out the baffle in the air box about every 4000 miles and just keep truckin'.

No one living east of Reno owns a snorkel. If we ever see one it is usually on a rig with a license plate frame from San Francisco or Marin Conty, CA - and is always on the pavement just passing thru - - Those same rigs usually equipped with shiny black monster tires, 6 inch lift, chromed diff covers, chromed a-bars, chromed steps, rapper paint graphics...:rolleyes:

cshontz

08-29-2006, 04:47 PM

I may never require a snorkel ... except it is my hope to travel someplace so remote that a snorkel may mean the difference between venturing forward and going home.

cruiseroutfit

08-29-2006, 05:04 PM

Love the pictures of 4x4s obviously stuck in deep water situations. Some of us think the snorkle saved them, others (like me) think they would not be there in the first place if they had no snorkle...

I can respect your opinion, but I can testify to the amount of trails here in Utah that have deep water (non flash flood) crossings in the spring run off. Am I inviting trouble? Sure, but just as I did with suspension, gears, lockers, winch, welder, etc... Its all about knowing your personal abilities and using them wisely. That an not being a sissy... :ylsmoke:

cruiseroutfit

08-29-2006, 05:06 PM

...except it is my hope to travel someplace so remote that a snorkel may mean the difference between venturing forward and going home.

San Rafael desert in the spring ;)

Even trails in Moab can have deep 3'+ "safe" crossings in the spring run off.

jim65wagon

08-29-2006, 09:52 PM

Haven't really needed one yet, don't know if anyone makes one for a Tundra, probably couldn't talk my wife into it if there was one! But, man, would it LOOK cool!

asteffes

08-29-2006, 10:09 PM

Haven't really needed one yet, don't know if anyone makes one for a Tundra, probably couldn't talk my wife into it if there was one! But, man, would it LOOK cool!

Right but all of this

2003 Tundra; 265/75/16 BFG ATKO's; 16x8 Wheelers steel wheels; Truxedo cover; Diff breather extension; Magellan GPS; on board air; bed light and power outlet; CB; 1.5" Daystar lift front; Deaver 3 leaf AAL rear

was a piece of cake, right? :)

Nullifier

08-30-2006, 02:06 PM

This must be a geography thing. Come wheeling with me in Florida july through november and you will be ordering one right away. Down here our trails get flooded with water and traversing tire to headlight deep water is a regular thing here. I regularly see water above my wipers in the rainy season on trials.

I have taken the time to dissassemble the whole air intake system and seal it, as well as seal the electrical compotnents and breather extensions on my drivetrain.

Now we do accasionally have guys that come out with us that do not have prepared vehicles but they are usualy getting oulled out for new trannies, motors or some kind of electrical demon.

I am an advocet of snorkels in my area if you actaully do any wheeling. this pc is an in cab view of an xj on 35's on one of our regular trail rides.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/nullifierx/richloam/100_0727.jpg

Personally I spent 20 minutes this hole that night with water head light deep. Thanks to my snorkel and sealing work I had no problems. Except the water in the cab was up tp the ottom of the dash. On my upcoming mod list is a pr of bilge pumps 1 under each seat to keep the water levels in the cab to a minimum.

typical trails in rainy season

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/nullifierx/toyotacrossing.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/nullifierx/inwatercrop.jpg

these are shallow areas where folks could stand on there tires and get picks however the holes encoutered get real deep and it is just part of florida "mall crawling".

upcruiser

08-30-2006, 02:10 PM

I can respect your opinion, but I can testify to the amount of trails here in Utah that have deep water (non flash flood) crossings in the spring run off. Am I inviting trouble? Sure, but just as I did with suspension, gears, lockers, winch, welder, etc... Its all about knowing your personal abilities and using them wisely. That an not being a sissy... :ylsmoke:

I agree with that last sentiment entirely. For me, the fact that I live in one of the wettest places (highest concentration of freshwater in the world) makes for numerous trails that have deep water crossings that aren't spring run off dependant. I got by fine for the most part without a snorkel in my previous Land Cruiser, Jeep, and Troopers but had a couple of close calls that made me feel more comfortable driving my pristine (then) 80 through some of those spots. Things rarely go perfectly, and despite my best intentions I could easily see getting stuck in water that may risk entering the intake. Due to the climate that I live in, wading out into every crossing isn't an option due to cold water and air for that matter. $300 for the chance of preventing catastrophic engine failure makes good sense to me. Do most people use them for bling? Of course, but assuming that everyone is in that boat is ignorant.

As Scott mentioned regarding dust, the higher the intake, the smaller the dust particulates that will be ingested into the airbox. On a dusty trail or road, even with the intake in the fender, it draws quite a bit of dust. These are the observations that I've made with my truck at least.

Funny though, this topic seems so heated. Alot of haters out there.:shakin: I admit though, the day I start seeing them on Escalades with dubs, I'll be changing my mind.:sombrero:

upcruiser

08-30-2006, 02:12 PM

goodtimes

08-30-2006, 04:01 PM

Geez, why don't you guys just get into boating instead?:088: Looks like some good paddling trails. haha
:xxrotflma

articulate

08-30-2006, 07:33 PM

I dunno, I think you did pretty good! 5 pages, 48 posts, and 645 views in only one day, 6 hours. That may be a new ExPo record ;)
I didn't know this thing would get so much attention. Holy keee-RAP!

It also may be just the way some people type, but I definately didn't expect such harsh-sounding opinions from the anti-snorklites. I was hoping for some more humor.

And one more thing: You'd be hard pressed to convince me that the Baja Taco Machine is a "mere" mall cruiser just because it's snorklified. :ylsmoke:

:rockon:

bigreen505

08-30-2006, 07:49 PM

This must be a geography thing. Come wheeling with me ...

<snip>

On my upcoming mod list is a pr of bilge pumps 1 under each seat to keep the water levels in the cab to a minimum.

Mark, there is your next thread: Can you really consider your vehicle to be anything but a mall crawler if you don't have bilge pumps?

:xxrotflma

Nulifier, I have sailed out of marinas with that much water in them! Actually for the 1998 North American and World Championships of the class I primarily sail, the boats had to sail through a harbor not much deeper than that. Pretty cool watching 100 boats with their rudders off and center boards most of the way up planing in under spinnaker and jibing between the shallow areas. In two weeks of sailing I think there were only a couple broken masts.

Blair G

08-30-2006, 07:50 PM

I didn't know this thing would get so much attention. Holy keee-RAP!

It also may be just the way some people type, but I definately didn't expect such harsh-sounding opinions from the anti-snorklites. I was hoping for some more humor.

And one more thing: You'd be hard pressed to convince me that the Baja Taco Machine is a "mere" mall cruiser just because it's snorklified. :ylsmoke:

:rockon:

This has been harsh? You need to head over to the Advrider.com site and see harsh. You guys are mild mannered.
Blair

goodtimes

08-30-2006, 08:03 PM

I don't see too many harsh responses here Mark. I think it is more the fact that you don't get to read body language or hear voice inflection, leaving the reader to determine the intent of the author.

Even Advrider isn't too bad. Run over to Pirate and see what they have to say about snorkles. Now THAT would be harsh (while your at it, tell them that lockers are for wimps).

:lurk:

goodtimes

08-30-2006, 08:07 PM

And one more thing: You'd be hard pressed to convince me that the Baja Taco Machine is a "mere" mall cruiser just because it's snorklified.

d00d! The taco machine is definately a mall cruiser! Why do you think he spend 4 months (+/-) in Baja back in '00? He got lost and simply refused to stop and ask for directions!

:sombrero:

Nullifier

08-30-2006, 09:47 PM

Mark, there is your next thread: Can you really consider your vehicle to be anything but a mall crawler if you don't have bilge pumps?

:xxrotflma

Nulifier, I have sailed out of marinas with that much water in them! Actually for the 1998 North American and World Championships of the class I primarily sail, the boats had to sail through a harbor not much deeper than that. Pretty cool watching 100 boats with their rudders off and center boards most of the way up planing in under spinnaker and jibing between the shallow areas. In two weeks of sailing I think there were only a couple broken masts.

Nice. The wife and I have a small sail boat with leeboards for shallow water running. In a good wind I can heel it over and skip across 18" of water under sial with board partially down. When the boards are fully up it drafts 6" THere is nothing more funny then seeing guys on flats boats doing everything they can to get your attention trying to tell you to veer off so you do not run aground, and then cruise right on by LOL!

BajaTaco

08-30-2006, 10:27 PM

BMAN

08-30-2006, 11:24 PM

LOL - if this is the worst "bashing" thread we get around here, I think we're doing pretty well. As many of you know (but many lurkers may not), Goodtimes and I are good friends (for what, 5 years now?) and I actually did get a good laugh at that first post of his. Although I might slightly disagree, he has some very good points. And just the way he puts it cracks me up. What I like best though, is that he says what's on his mind and is honest about it. (and like me, if what's on his mind is not in the best interest of the discussion, he'll keep it to himself.... most of the time. LOL)

Now as for Mark F'in Stephens... that guy is a hellraiser.

Well put, in more ways than one. One of the nice things about actually knowing and wheeling with some of these guys for years, is being able to put that inflection of sarcasm into their posts for them. I hear Brian's voice when I read his posts. The same with Chris and Scotty and others here who I've spent plenty of trail time with. It's those that I don't know on a personal basis that I sometimes force myself to re-read their posts with a little sarcasm in them to make sure that I didn't miss something.

This thread is far from scathing, even if you put a mean spirited affect on each post. Like others have said... you want harsh, read pirate more often.

OverlandZJ

08-31-2006, 12:09 AM

I think this thread has been very informative, and led to a factual conversation enabling one to share the opinions of some of the most traveled offroaders on the net. Anyone considering a snorkel purchase should read this thread...twice.

Not only have i not read any harsh responses in this thread, i'v yet to read any hostility in ANY thread i'v read on this forum. :clapsmile

Now ball breakin....thats a different story. :shakin:

ccrider

08-31-2006, 03:26 AM

This site is excellent, information reliable and people are real ! There certainly is not the juvenile trash talk you get from a site such as TTORA.
I am consistenly impressed with the courtesy and enthusiasm shown by all !
cheers to all
Chris

BajaTaco

08-31-2006, 03:46 AM

Cheers to you too Chris :beer:

I hear Brian's voice when I read his posts.

No doubt! LOL... and you too Bman... except I hear your laugh more than your voice... LOL

Scott Brady

08-31-2006, 01:44 PM

Did someone say snorkels aren't required? :p

http://www.expeditionswest.com/adventures/2004/baja_spearfishing_3_04/images/DSC01440_JPG.jpg

desertgirl66

08-31-2006, 02:07 PM

As a "chick" who drives 3 different Toyotas, all with snorkels, I am not sure about that "chick magnet" comment!! I guess it works for you guys!! I might have to have a talk with DD about this :sombrero:

As for river crossings--well needed in Alaska and when crossing a flooded river near Roosevelt lake also. I felt very safe knowing that the engine would not stall in the middle of the river!

And there is something to be said about the Farkle factor! :)

A snorkel is a great assett on adventure expeditions, and they look really cool!!

ShearPin

08-31-2006, 05:03 PM

I think Nullifier makes a good point. Here in Central Ontario, Canada water crossings are inevitable. Rigs up here have snorkels ranging from aftermarket products to home drain pipe or flexi-hose jobs. I would argue in this environment I would rate a snorkel as a must have second to the farmers jack.

Regarding dust - I have an awesome photo of my brothers hummer on a dry lake at speed with a thin stream of dust coming out of the Centri Pre-cleaner exhaust hole. After numerous washboard road failures with my Land Rover down pipe I moidified it for a stiffer mount with the Centri precleaner cap.

Part of the fun modifying my truck has been with the idea I could drive it to any environment and be self sufficient - even if I never do.

Henry
www.4x4freedom.com

Photos - my brother an his two door Ranger Rover, Central Ontario
- Eore, Flash flood in Belize

datrupr

08-31-2006, 06:37 PM

Functional Schmunctional. Chrome that sucker, slap it on, and watch the chicks line up:p

Actually, I am still gonna snorkel the Trooper, primarily because I think it looks damn cool, and you can not call my Trooper a mall crawler with all the pinstripes, and also, it is rarely ever in a mall parking lot.:D

BMAN

08-31-2006, 07:35 PM

viter

08-31-2006, 07:55 PM

hi everybody!
I thought I'll contribute, even though this is not my truck - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWkvX0lrl7Y&NR

viter

08-31-2006, 08:09 PM

this is mine -
http://ucsdcycling.org/albums/album02/PICT3374.sized.jpg

I had to cut the plastic wheel well liner a little because my bfg mud terrains were rubbing, this led to more water getting to the air intake tube, which is pointing backwards between the inner and outer fender on stock tacoma, this led to fidning an 1/2" or so of water in my airbox (the paper filter stopped it from going further into the engine) after water crossings like the one in the picture, which led to me building my own snorkle for about $20-30. It doesn't look as cool as ARB one but for the money it was a great choice for me. I also extended breather lines from the front/rear diffs, auto tranny, and transfercase into the airbox. ECU is inside the cab on my tacoma so unless I get water in there, it should be ok. All electronics are left pretty much stock, so any suggestions on waterproofing my truck more are very welcome. So far though nothing has failed and there is no more water in the airbox.
more pix with explanation on how I built it - http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c320/ua_taco/snorkel/

+ d

08-31-2006, 09:27 PM

...I have an awesome photo of my brothers hummer on a dry lake at speed with a thin stream of dust coming out of the Centri Pre-cleaner exhaust hole...

i wanna see!
:elkgrin:

Scott Brady

08-31-2006, 09:52 PM

Snorkel naysayers, watch this: VIDEO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EgFTeRRP5w&NR)

:smiley_drive:

mountainpete

08-31-2006, 10:27 PM

This video too... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgSPXIgCDjg

BajaXplorer

08-31-2006, 10:28 PM

Not sure about other non-snorkel types, but my response on this thread as to not wanting a snorkel is based upon my usage, and I'm too old to need a chick magnet (whatever that is?). I don't think those of you who have snorkles are mall cruisers (well not all of you anyway).
It matters little to me if you post pictures of snorkels in use. I suspect I could post a lot more pictures of them not in use. Should I post a couple thousand?
I simply do not see a snorkle on my truck, and I am not one to just do something just because it looks cool. That is, unless you count those things that I have done that are cool (a snorkle not being one of them).:)
BX

Viter...Welcome, would like to see more info on your snorkle you made.

DaktariEd

09-01-2006, 01:37 AM

Oh, C'mon....here's the best snorkel video:

Land Cruiser Submarine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzGh43-leO4)

:elkgrin:

desertgirl66

09-01-2006, 01:40 AM

salsataco

09-01-2006, 01:44 AM

That landcruiser video is great!

Scott Brady

09-01-2006, 02:31 AM

Not sure about other non-snorkel types, but my response on this thread as to not wanting a snorkel is based upon my usage, and I'm too old to need a chick magnet (whatever that is?).

Mike,

All of your comments have been well said and I agree. You are simply stating that a snorkel is not a modification you need for what you do.

The same applies with a solid axle swap for me. I could care less is a SAS truck can drive Axel Alley or not. It is not something I need or want for my Tacoma at this time.

cshontz

09-01-2006, 02:54 AM

Snorkel naysayers, check this video out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgNDjksxcnk

:o :p j/k

On a serious note, the Safari Snorkel website also has a compelling video.
http://www.safarisnorkel.com/docs/snorkel/snorkel320x240x10.avi

articulate

09-01-2006, 02:55 AM

I think it is more the fact that you don't get to read body language or hear voice inflection
True DAT! I digress...

Pictures of snorkels on trucks in the water serve to emphasize point 5 on the abridged list of why to have a snorkel. :shakin:

And cool is in the eye of the beholder.

EDIT: Oh yeah! Poor Brooke, my wife, (bless her heart!) gets quite a few comments on our snorkel-free truck from guys who see the eezi-awn tent on the back and snicker with disbelief, "You go camping alot or something?" You know how these dudes sound...

articulate

09-01-2006, 03:00 AM

So, I am wondering---do these guys have sticks or something to measure the depth of the water?!?! Or just random"Hey Bro, let's drive our jeep into this really deep water and see what happens!"

Goofy and fun! :rolleyes:
MMM!!!! It's actually usually your no-good buddy from childhood in the passenger seat saying, "DUDE! You have a sweet truck with a snorkel! Just drive through it. Don't be a wimp."

flyingwil

09-01-2006, 05:47 AM

EDIT: Oh yeah! Poor Brooke, my wife, (bless her heart!) gets quite a few comments on our snorkel-free truck from guys who see the eezi-awn tent on the back and snicker with disbelief, "You go camping alot or something?" You know how these dudes sound...

So you think a snorkel would help this situation? Then the next thing will be "What is that thing on your truck?"

Desertdude

09-01-2006, 04:39 PM

Oh, C'mon....here's the best snorkel video:

Land Cruiser Submarine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzGh43-leO4)

:elkgrin:

that's what I'm talkin about :bowdown:

MaddBaggins

09-01-2006, 04:55 PM

This would be relatively easy to verify Chuck. We just need 2 vehicles [one with snorkle, one without] the same lift height, tire size and type, a decent lab scale, a pair of new OEM air filters, and a nice dusty road......:truck:

Done it.
You know I don't have a snorkle, Rob Clark does have one on his 80. A few months back we were both in a very dusty, 36 rig caravan. Both of us somewhere in the first 1/3 of the pack.
Day after that trip I cleaned out a couple good sized handfuls of silty dust out of my airbox and filter. Rob said his was reasonably clean considering.

My conclusion, water crossing stuff aside, they do help get cleaner air. And from other data I had seen on MUD 80's tech, they do lower intake air temps as well. One report using an OBDII scanner showed as much as 30* lower air temp at the MAF.

Food for thought

viter

09-01-2006, 08:35 PM

Viter...Welcome, would like to see more info on your snorkle you made.

Thank you! more info on my snorkle is here - http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c320/ua_taco/snorkel/

Nullifier

09-01-2006, 09:11 PM

Snorkel naysayers, watch this: VIDEO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EgFTeRRP5w&NR)

:smiley_drive:

Nice video scott. I actualy got that deep earlier this year. It is a bit of a pucker factor when you can feel you rig floating LOL! That is what prompted my depth finder install. It's also why bilge pumps are now moving up on the list. I have already made the decision to remove my carpet and pads. So i have bare floors and rubber mats. Fortunetly he was able to keep it runing. looks like he did a great job sealing the electrical stuff on that rig. to bad he got stuck on the other side, seeing him drive back out would have made it truely awesome.

Blair G

09-09-2006, 03:36 AM

http://i.pbase.com/o4/11/30811/1/66530537.LzptjGY5.Stanley1.jpg

DaktariEd

09-09-2006, 01:19 PM

Land Rovers don't need snorkels!

:jump: :xxrotflma

articulate

09-09-2006, 05:19 PM

Land Rovers don't need snorkels
Blair, it's like this thread was made for that photograph! Nice one.

Joaquin Suave

09-09-2006, 05:48 PM

WOW! that is a great shot Blair!

p1michaud

09-20-2006, 01:19 AM

Thank you! more info on my snorkle is here - http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c320/ua_taco/snorkel/

Welcome to Expo!
Nice job on the snorkel fab and install.

Off topic, but I really like your winch mounting location. Keeps the stock truck look. Start another thread on it if you have the time.

Look closely at this picture...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/p1michaud/Winch.jpg

Cheers :beer:,
P

david despain

09-20-2006, 04:33 PM

EDIT: Oh yeah! Poor Brooke, my wife, (bless her heart!) gets quite a few comments on our snorkel-free truck from guys who see the eezi-awn tent on the back and snicker with disbelief, "You go camping alot or something?" You know how these dudes sound...

so did this truck keep its original role of daily driver for your wife? does the tent stay on most of the time?

Daddy-Bruce

10-07-2006, 01:39 AM

You expeditionererers and your cruisers, tacos, and rovers. Until
you've lived the true soccer/karate/football dad experience you can't
understand it. I have a very popular vehicle with horrible intake location.
It's behind the passenger headlight and points down and toward the
middle of the car. Under the radiator is a large plastic lip that deflects
every bug, rock, drop of water, grain of dust, etc, etc, up and toward
the air filter.

Summer before last i wiped out my air filter while splashing through a
12 inch mud puddle. Last summer while driving on a short (less than 10
miles) dusty segment of pony express trail near Ice House Road I
completely wiped out a new OEM air filter. Since putting on my customized,
mall rated, Safari Snorkel I can't get the filter dirty. And...
"It's for the safety of my family."

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3702&stc=1&d=1160185409

viter

10-07-2006, 03:42 AM

that is one cool pic Blair G!!! are they just playing around or is that some type of training or actual war action, if it isn't a government secret? ;)

thanks P, here is a new thread - http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=37605#post37605

Bruce, great job on adopting a taco snorkel to another vehicle! hope to see your explorer in person some time soon, since I am in San Diego! maybe we could do a Big Bear run in the winter for expo members, but that will be later on when we get some snow, and it will need its own thread

86cj

10-09-2006, 11:46 PM

This site is entertaining as well as informative what a hoot.
I kind of had the wow cool mall crawler snorkle mind set. Even though I know some of you guys need them. The guys in the videos proved the functionality for sure...

About a year or so ago there was a video around of a jeep I think, going into a big current on wide river and went for a real stupid boat ride. Wife has a real opinion about the whole river crossing thing now. She does NOT want to do the swampbuggy "sippi hole"..

But she also refuses to watch Pinks on speedvision must be a chick thing...I bet all the chickens that crossed the road were male......

articulate

10-10-2006, 05:36 AM

Ahhhh! So this thread lives. :ylsmoke:
...and we're all still friends.

Desertdude

10-10-2006, 02:18 PM

:iagree:

I am installing a snorkel on my M101 (http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2681) just as soon as I can :elkgrin:

ccd8541

10-13-2006, 02:42 AM

Came across this on another forum:

Video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=74826415604604991&hl=en)

cshontz

10-13-2006, 11:26 AM

Came across this on another forum:

Video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=74826415604604991&hl=en)

Okaaaay. Snorkels aren't much use if your vehicle is upside down. :smilies27

I'm not sure if I understand the pasttime of high-risk water crossings, but interesting video nevertheless. Thanks for sharing it! :)

Ron B

10-20-2006, 01:09 PM

speaking of high risk water crossings...check out this fj!

http://vidsearch.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=898006844

ron b

Nullifier

10-20-2006, 02:58 PM

Came across this on another forum:

Video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=74826415604604991&hl=en)

Those guys are crazy but they would have had alot less trouble if they would take of the doors. This is less surface for the water to pusha gainst and that may have been enough to prevent the capsizes.Of course taller rigs would have worked wonders too!

Blair G

10-20-2006, 05:21 PM

Those guys are crazy but they would have had alot less trouble if they would take of the doors. This is less surface for the water to pusha gainst and that may have been enough to prevent the capsizes.Of course taller rigs would have worked wonders too!

In some of the Land Rover off road "manuals" they suggest rolling down the windows so that the current flows through your vehicle and not against it. Better make sure everything is secure inside or it will be down stream. Maybe thats why you don't see cup holders in Land Rovers.
Blair

kcowyo

10-20-2006, 06:16 PM

Another Schmorkle Farkle video (http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i38/Navara_Man/?action=view&current=Safarisnorkletests.flv) :Wow1:

Pretty impressive as even the snorkle head goes under water at one point. However, I wouldn't drive my truck through water that deep and fast for anything.

There's a real fine line between cool and stupid -

njtacoma

10-20-2006, 07:38 PM

I love that video, it was the first promo video for safari snorkle I watched.

I'll pass on driving in with my truck, but hey might be fun to watch:D

BCJC

10-20-2006, 10:45 PM

Nullifier

10-21-2006, 12:48 AM

well there is always going to be road grim but I feel reponsable wheelers won't go out with there rigs leaking fluids. I know I won't If I have a leak all trips ar eoff till I get it fixed. I'm probably in the minority though.

cruiseroutfit

10-21-2006, 04:33 AM

super cool to watch, and not to be a downer, but i wonder how many pollutants get introduced into our water systems by crossings like these? i'm certainly not an expert, but it strikes me as not great "tread lightly" practices either...not judgeing, just discussing.

Probably not nearly as many as the ones that come out your tail-pipe ;)

A sealed up vehicle should'nt introduce any into the water, but even if they did have some oil drips, etc it would be nothing compared to the amount of water volume.

viter

11-02-2006, 05:43 AM

to keep the thread going
http://trucks.autoreview.ru/archive/2006/06/army/750/IMG_0373.jpg
does this truck have a snorkle?

this is russian military kamaz, same company that makes kamaz trucks that have been winning dakar race for the past 6-7 years in big truck category, their civilian daily use kamaz trucks are not very reliable however, like majority of russian cars

articulate

11-02-2006, 03:08 PM

to keep the thread going

Hmmmm. It's like this thread has a snorkel. It goes into the depths of the archives, and comes out the other side with yet another photograph!

david despain

11-02-2006, 03:36 PM

maybe i should get a kamaz....you know for the saftey of my family

DaktariEd

11-02-2006, 06:34 PM

AAAhhhhh! THE THREAD LIVES!!!
:yikes:

devinsixtyseven

11-02-2006, 07:26 PM

is that a pic from the east european truck trials? they used to show those late at night on espn in norway, always set to classical music...

nothing like seeing a 50T, 8-axle crane truck bounce down a cliff to "the blue danube".

-sean

viter

11-03-2006, 02:03 AM

I know what you are talking about, but no this is not trials, this is like a SEMA show in russia but for military ;)

Scott Brady

07-31-2007, 03:40 PM

Yeah, I can't see much of a use for one... think I will take mine off and install pre-runner fenders :snorkel:

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/tacoma/action/2007-07-30-30D-IMG_1561.JPG

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/tacoma/action/2007-07-30-30D-IMG_1563.JPG

The current was so strong that is moved my 6,000 lb truck about 5 feet down stream.

Photos: Doug Hackney

Desertdude

07-31-2007, 03:51 PM

All we needed now was a propeller :Wow1:

http://idisk.mac.com/desertdude-Public/Portalwebphotos/IMG_1687.jpg

NewFoundFreedom

07-31-2007, 03:57 PM

I am going to get one but for the Sorento its tough due to the lack of USA aftermarket support. Therefore I have to go out of the country to get it. But it will be worth it. I am waiting until I get a few other mods first though.

Willman

07-31-2007, 04:01 PM

Desertdude

07-31-2007, 04:16 PM

Mini Truck -----> Ghetto style :bowdown:

http://idisk.mac.com/desertdude-Public/Portalwebphotos/IMG_4381.jpg

Scott Brady

07-31-2007, 04:53 PM

We were in the Santa Maria mountains near Prescott. Flash flood from summer storm caught us between two rivers.

Willman

07-31-2007, 05:39 PM

Scott.......Did you get any water in the cab?

Looks like a very pretty area!

:snorkel:

Scott Brady

07-31-2007, 06:06 PM

No water in the cab :), not even a drop.

NewFoundFreedom

07-31-2007, 07:49 PM

:victory: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Ursidae69

07-31-2007, 08:00 PM

We were in the Santa Maria mountains near Prescott. Flash flood from summer storm caught us between two rivers.

Had someone crossed before you? I guess they would have to get that photo of you. How well did the other vehicle do? (Edit, just saw the other thread)

I suspect that a few years ago you wouldn't have made that crossing, but now you have the itch to build a new truck so you are pushing the envelope on the Taco. That's my 2 cent psycho-analysis. :hehe: :elkgrin:

Scott Brady

07-31-2007, 08:10 PM

Had someone crossed before you? I guess they would have to get that photo of you. How well did the other vehicle do?

Yes, Anais (daughter of my French sponsor) drove across with Stephanie Hackney and me, then I drove the truck over and back again for better "documentation" and "testing".

The other vehicle was a Mitsubishi Fuso FG 4x4. Very heavy, and nearly unaffected by the crossing.

http://www.expeditionswest.com/services/training/FUSO_Crossing.JPG

I suspect that a few years ago you wouldn't have made that crossing, but now you have the itch to build a new truck so you are pushing the envelope on the Taco.

I am taking more risks with the Taco now... The 35" tires should show up next week sometime.

Not really itching too much for another truck yet. Too many other projects at the moment. I am sure next spring will bring a new addition to the Brady driveway.

Alaska Mike

07-31-2007, 08:36 PM

Love that picture, Scott. I can hear you now, singing the '93 Camel Trophy theme song, "Sabah-Malaysia...". That crossing reminds me of what the Purches Creek crossing looks like in the spring as the snow melts off of the surrounding mountain peaks. You can't see the rocks, just white ripples. The first time I ran it, I got pushed about 50' downstream before I caught a sand berm and pulled out. That water was hauling. :REExeSwimmingHL:

To contribute even more to the thread that wouldn't die:
I didn't have a snorkel on the CJ until this past spring. I picked up an ARB TJ snorkel for $75 from a friend and installed it on a whim. I had run creeks and rivers up to the windshield for years without one (the filter never got wet), thanks to a fortunate air filter location, some small modifications, and maintaining the engine air pocket. Don't get me wrong- there were times I wished I had one for the extra security, I just never could justify the expense. Now that I have one, I'm plumbing everything I can into the air box.

I've noticed how they cut down on dust as well, so I consider the effort of installing it worth my time and the money I invested. If I was still in a dry climate I would probably have spent the money elsewhere, but for where I am located it seems like more than "bling". Then again, if I drove a rig that was a little more common on the street (like a Toyota), I would probably try to dress it up with semi-functional objects (bumpers/brushguard/snorkel) to make it look less like something that rolled off the dealer's lot. Add a little custom pinstriping, and the soccer moms just swoon.

pete.wilson

07-31-2007, 09:24 PM

Hey

So size does matter! Tires that is.

How did you know if the rain swollen water was safe to cross? We always hear you shouldn't; of course there are differences between stock vehicles and capable vehicles. Know of any snorkel kits for a mid-90's suburban?

kcowyo

07-31-2007, 11:37 PM

To contribute even more to the thread that wouldn't die....

If he hadn't recently had a baby, I feel confident that articulate would proclaim this thread his proudest accomplishment.

I'm amazed too how often this thread pops back to the surface, as if it had an extended breathing apparatus of it's own. :snorkel:

*Props to Mr.'s Hackney & Brady for some really cool photos -

big sky trapper

08-01-2007, 12:48 AM

Know of any snorkel kits for a mid-90's suburban?

well no. BUT....this works not to bad if your willing to re fab the air box....

http://www.outtasightcustomcamo.net/resources/old+truck+sm+2.JPG

A mid 90's burb should be the same....

Its off an 88 yoda fits pretty darn close....an old pic of and old truck i used to run...going to build my new one just like it. But I often wondered if the 84-85 yoda kit wouldnt fit flatter....hmmm i have one sitting in the yard might have to take it off and see how flat it will go on.....

pete.wilson

08-01-2007, 01:54 PM

Hey

Thanks Big Sky Trapper.......I've got a friend who lives in Roberts, MT.; I love that area. He works for Big Sky Airlines out of Billings.

Willman

08-02-2007, 12:51 AM

If he hadn't recently had a baby, I feel confident that articulate would proclaim this thread his proudest accomplishment.

That's funny!!!!!!!!

:shakin:

flyingwil

08-23-2007, 07:40 AM

Hmmmm... A few more Snorkels have popped up on the forum... yet this thread lacks their input.

BTW... I love this thread!

cruiser guy

08-23-2007, 12:52 PM

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/tacoma/action/2007-07-30-30D-IMG_1561.JPG

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/tacoma/action/2007-07-30-30D-IMG_1563.JPG

The current was so strong that is moved my 6,000 lb truck about 5 feet down stream.

Photos: Doug Hackney

Originally Posted by ExpeditionsWest.com

Never attempt to cross water that is over hood height, and avoid crossing fast moving sources exceeding the vehicles tire height.

The above quote is from page 2 of this thread. Anyone see a little contradiction?? Someone has to ask the question! It looks to me like there is a drop off of some sort to the left side of the picture as well creating a rather dangerous scenario in my opinion.

goodtimes

08-23-2007, 12:59 PM

I suspect that the water is indeed less than hood deep, save for the bow wave. Also keep in mind that another vehicle had already crossed, so they had a very good idea about the conditions.

He is still a little crazy though.

Scott Brady

08-23-2007, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by ExpeditionsWest.com

Never attempt to cross water that is over hood height, and avoid crossing fast moving sources exceeding the vehicles tire height.

The above quote is from page 2 of this thread. Anyone see a little contradiction??

As a general rule, absolutely. In this case, the most technical portion of the river was shorter than the WB of the truck and easily crossable.

I would never recommend someone cross that river. What I do on my own is for the purpose of testing the limits, which helps make me a better and more experienced driver.

And don't forget, Doug is a professional photographer and I am a professional driver, both using what was a relatively benign crossing for maximum visual effect.

Watch the video, and it will all make more sense.

Michael Slade

08-23-2007, 02:02 PM

And don't forget, Doug is a professional photographer and I am a professional driver...

As Han Solo said to Luke Skywalker in SW ep IV...

"Don't get cocky kid!"

I skipped through this thread, and in the little I read I didn't read much about any pre-filters?

I have a Donaldson on mine and it works well...I haven't ever filled it up, but I generally go out alone and am not eating dust from trucks in front of me.

Shovel

08-23-2007, 09:51 PM

don't Aussie Hiluxes get neat semi-cyclonic airboxes under the hood (for dust)?

I remember reading that on a Montero forum, years ago... some guy got a stock Hilux airbox from Australia & it had a neat finned design (vaguely reminiscent of those dumb Tornado things) intended to cast particles out to the edge by centripetal force.

Anyone know what I'm talking about? :P

4Rescue

08-23-2007, 11:26 PM

Having actualy Lived in Australia and run many LC75's with Diesels and Snorkels I'll add another vote for cleaner air. Try hitting the Birdsville Track without one and you'll be cleaning out your air box every 100 miles or so. Another thing everyone overlooks is that most places where these Snorkels are used, they're used on Diesel engines which have different waterproofing needs. I'm adding one to my 4Runner cause of teh added induction properties, it's a 22re and every little bit of the combination counts.

Scott Brady

08-24-2007, 02:37 AM

As Han Solo said to Luke Skywalker in SW ep IV...

"Don't get cocky kid!"

Good point Michael.

The statement was not meant to be boastful, just that the circumstances allowed for a dramatic effect, where there was little to no actual danger. Something that can be created with some experience, both on the driver's and photographer's part.

Michael Slade

08-24-2007, 01:58 PM

The statement was not meant to be boastful...

Oh I know...just flippin' 'ya a little crap. :D

flyingwil

09-06-2007, 07:06 AM

Why?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr8eEWyKQHM

RoundOut

09-06-2007, 02:13 PM

Why?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr8eEWyKQHM

That was funny as heck. The camera zoomed in too soon, though. I was laughing my butt off looking forward to seeing the flood come out as he opened the door. Most of the water was out before the camera zoomed back out, LOL.

kcowyo

09-06-2007, 03:03 PM

Why?

To win the war....?

CJC99TJ

09-12-2007, 08:19 PM

I can't believe I just read all 16 pages of this.. :whew:

Around here a snorkel is almost necessary on some trails. I have a friend who hydro-locked his engine by attempting to ford a deep water crossing. The Jeep I was riding along in was newer so the airbox was up higher. Unfortunately the older YJs have the airbox right behind the headlight, which immediately sucked in water once the nose went down. After the engine was replaced he made sure to install a snorkel!

I personally love the look of them but at this point I haven't needed one. It is on the list, though!

Mike S

09-12-2007, 08:43 PM

Is that succinct enough?

My rig looks sufficiently weird already. Adding a snokel would put it over the top.

Willman

09-12-2007, 08:44 PM

Why?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr8eEWyKQHM

Great Video Wil!....Funny stuff!

:)

adventureduo

09-12-2007, 09:40 PM

I can't believe how long that sammy made it under for.. amazing. Must be all siliconed up like mad.

Here's our 80 series, dabbling in a river crossing... too bad yosh snapped the pic before it went over the hood and a 1/4 way up the windshield :(

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/7769/cimg09451jpgte1.jpg

We just installed a pre-cleaner on our snorkel.. so far it's picked up some dirt just driving around town. We will see how it does out in Death Valley next month.

MountainBiker

09-12-2007, 11:04 PM

adventureduo

09-12-2007, 11:08 PM

Looks like the Mojave River was pretty deep that day!

Yeah it had rained the previous days before we arrived.. and sprinkled on and off while we ran the trail. Was way deeper than i ever anticipated.

Martinjmpr

09-12-2007, 11:25 PM

Is that succinct enough?

My rig looks sufficiently weird already. Adding a snokel would put it over the top.

You make that sound like a bad thing... ;)

Shovel

09-12-2007, 11:49 PM

tacollie

09-13-2007, 12:26 AM

That is hilarious. Here is my two sents on snorkels. They are cheap compared to my other mods. Re-gear, suspension, armor, and so on. They can't really hurt. I like they way they look. I sucked water from a 12" deep puddle into my 4runner(toyota said they were known for that). Cleaner air. I will get one when those other things are done, just in case. I don't think they are a must, but just like aftermarket wheels, they get bling points and some functionality. My two sents, if I am complete miss led please tell me as there are much more experienced and knowledgable people here.

Shovel

09-13-2007, 12:53 AM

what the heck is that crap on his hood, did he steal Optiumus Prime's hockey mask!?

http://www.jeepsnorkel.com/images/jeep-safari-snorkel.jpg

CJC99TJ

09-13-2007, 01:48 AM

what the heck is that crap on his hood, did he steal Optiumus Prime's hockey mask!?

http://www.jeepsnorkel.com/images/jeep-safari-snorkel.jpg

I would hate to have to open the hood on that! :insertbarficonhere:

Willman

09-13-2007, 03:11 AM

what the heck is that crap on his hood, did he steal Optiumus Prime's hockey mask!?

http://www.jeepsnorkel.com/images/jeep-safari-snorkel.jpg

Heee's a Rancher!!!!! That would make one hell of a cow tipping :cow: rig!

:REOutArchery02:

Flounder

09-13-2007, 03:47 AM

what the heck is that crap on his hood, did he steal Optiumus Prime's hockey mask!?

http://www.jeepsnorkel.com/images/jeep-safari-snorkel.jpg
Looks like someone got a new tubing bender for Xmass. Seriously, that is ridiculous looking.

Spikepretorius

09-13-2007, 05:09 AM

Look Ma, no snorkel

(I'm pro-snorkel)

articulate

09-13-2007, 06:11 AM

If he hadn't recently had a baby, I feel confident that articulate would proclaim this thread his proudest accomplishment.

I'm amazed too how often this thread pops back to the surface, as if it had an extended breathing apparatus of it's own. :snorkel:
You'll be happy to know that fatherhood hasn't changed my childish antics one bit. Contrarily, it has augmented them. As such, I've never been more proud of a silly thread. I'm pretty certain I was sober during the creation of this one, too. Check the calendar, though. If I posted it on a Thursday, chances are quite good that there was an open bottle of tequila on kitchen counter.

To think that the very first responder, good ol' Brian, tried to derail the fun by being a snorkel detractor. Hook-line-n-sinker'd that sucker. Let's see him cross a river on that BMW of his. Attach a fording kit on a moto helmet, could you?

goodtimes

09-13-2007, 12:53 PM

To think that the very first responder, good ol' Brian, tried to derail the fun by being a snorkel detractor. Hook-line-n-sinker'd that sucker. Let's see him cross a river on that BMW of his. Attach a fording kit on a moto helmet, could you?

Derail the fun? I think not sir. The fun simply did not begin until I made the proper connection between snorkles and chrome, which you missed in your first post. So put that in your, uh, snorkle, and sm....uh, do something with it.

kcowyo

09-13-2007, 03:34 PM

You'll be happy to know that fatherhood hasn't changed my childish antics one bit. Contrarily, it has augmented them.

It's nice to have someone you can count on, like Old Faithful you are.

We missed celebrating the one year anniversary of this thread.... this monstrosity.... this black hole of black plastic pipe information. A maelstrom of information and opinions, if you will.

:birthday.sml: Happy Birthday Snorkel Wars!! :birthday.sml:

adventureduo

09-13-2007, 04:49 PM

Looks like someone got a new tubing bender for Xmass. Seriously, that is ridiculous looking.

Looks like mad max! lol

98roamer

09-13-2007, 05:01 PM

what the heck is that crap on his hood, did he steal Optiumus Prime's hockey mask!?

http://www.jeepsnorkel.com/images/jeep-safari-snorkel.jpg

It looks like they tried to copy Road Armors from bumpers but talk about a damage amplifier. Theres not a lot of support built in for that.

http://www.roadarmor.com/ra3/SEMA2004/sema_h22_big.jpg

overlander

09-13-2007, 06:41 PM

It looks like they tried to copy Road Armors from bumpers but talk about a damage amplifier. Theres not a lot of support built in for that.

http://www.roadarmor.com/ra3/SEMA2004/sema_h22_big.jpg

Additionally, there should be a legal limit to how many shocks you can have per tire. Look at that thing! He might as well just weld the axles to the frame and do away with those nonsense coils and shocks.

Who invented bling anyway?

Shovel

09-13-2007, 07:07 PM

don't remind me of SEMA... we're 6 weeks out and I haven't even been given a list of product to display in the booth it's my job to design & build. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Ruffin' It

09-13-2007, 08:01 PM

Luckily it's on a H2 so a good rattle can should be able to fix the damage that the shopping carts inflict.

It looks like they tried to copy Road Armors from bumpers but talk about a damage amplifier. Theres not a lot of support built in for that.

http://www.roadarmor.com/ra3/SEMA2004/sema_h22_big.jpg

Blizz

09-14-2007, 01:46 PM

Isn't this "bumper" one of those which can fold down to put a deer or some other animal hunted in?

Returning to the original topic, this is my custom snorkel.

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/7977/dsc04606gt7.jpg

With the cyclonic prefilter

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/8451/dsc042010pr.jpg

David

Spikepretorius

09-14-2007, 01:59 PM

Really nice snorkel there Blizz

ntsqd

09-14-2007, 05:51 PM

Additionally, there should be a legal limit to how many shocks you can have per tire. Look at that thing! He might as well just weld the axles to the frame and do away with those nonsense coils and shocks.

Who invented bling anyway?
There's only two dampers there. The other cylinders are remote reservoirs. Those mall speed bumps are pretty vicious about over-heating the dampers.

p1michaud

09-14-2007, 06:05 PM

Returning to the original topic, this is my custom snorkel.

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/7977/dsc04606gt7.jpg

With the cyclonic prefilter

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/8451/dsc042010pr.jpg

David

Job well done on the snorkel. Do you have any details about material and fabrication?
Might as well throw up anohter snorkel pic for the benefit of the thread of course!

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/p1michaud/Tacoma/Snorkel/DSC04276.jpg

Cheers :beer:,
P

TxRider

10-24-2007, 03:14 AM

Hmm long topic.. snorkels..

I'll just drop a little info of the rig I bought to rebuild for an adventure truck.

It came from the factory able to ford 42" of water, but also came with a snorkel (intake and exhaust) set up to ford 7 foot deep water, basically you put the snorkels on, take the top off, stand up and using the hand throttle drive through water deep enough that only your head and the snorkels are above water.

The only real diffence in ignition is that the coil is inside the water tight sealed distributor, and the plug wires are also screw on waterproof type connectors.

And this is a 1953 truck, the Dodge M-37.

Snorkels have been used for a lot of mlitary vehicles for deep water fording, trucks and tanks alike for over half a century. They do work provided your driveline vents, igntion etc. are set up for it.

As for what I read about your fan getting sucked into your radiator in water, many if not most fans have a friction clutch that would prevent this. I used to hold fan blades still with my hand with an engine idling to set timing on some vehicles. The fan in water would splash a bit and basically come to a stop as the clutch slipped. Listen to vehicles going into deep water and you can even hear it happen.

Only a thin flex fan with no friction clutch would have that issue with flexing into the radiator I would think.

But unless your going to run through water over your hood it's not something you need, and many if not most water that deep that a track crosses will be moving too fast at that depth to ford anyway snorel or not.

Dragon

10-24-2007, 04:06 AM

The FJ Cruiser's air intake is in the passenger side wheel well. There have been two times when I have gone into a muck / mud hole and buried the nose Driver Side down higher than that intake would have been had it been on the driver's side.

The comment now should be "Why didn't you "probe" first to see what the depth was?" or "Hey blockhead, that's not an airboat".
While I know these things, suffice it to say that it happened. Had the off camber been the other way, I would have sucked in muddy water. As it was, I just had to pull my alternator to clean it out and replace a couple of pulleys and she's good as new.

This is bad and could have been worse if the air intake was on the other side

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1643/stuck3yw8.jpg

This is not bad, but as others have said; a bow wake and a steady (perhaps slightly increasing) speed rule the day here and not a snorkel.

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/4205/art1nx5.jpg

So whether it is "just in case" or whether it is because it gives me peace of mind, my ARB Safari snorkel is on a container on it's way from Oz and I can't wait to get it :)

Funrover

10-24-2007, 04:54 AM

I did it for cleaner air...... it has proven beneficial for me....... I did lose cool points however because it was homemade!

xcmountain80

10-24-2007, 05:07 AM

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/4333/snorkelsareliketurningadq4.th.jpg (http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snorkelsareliketurningadq4.jpg)

INSTALLING A SNORKEL IS LIKE FLIPPING AN ON/OFF SWITCH FOR GETTING LADIES!!

(yes I shamelessly ripped off a Cyanide & Happiness comic... with some butchered MSPaint crap)

HAHAHAHA I topped my snorkel with a duck for added ladies magnetization, alas it didn't work I was already married... a well known reverse polarity demagnatizer .
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/xcmountain/P7070126.jpg

Aaron

shortymav

10-25-2007, 04:09 PM

As for what I read about your fan getting sucked into your radiator in water, many if not most fans have a friction clutch that would prevent this. I used to hold fan blades still with my hand with an engine idling to set timing on some vehicles. The fan in water would splash a bit and basically come to a stop as the clutch slipped. Listen to vehicles going into deep water and you can even hear it happen.

Only a thin flex fan with no friction clutch would have that issue with flexing into the radiator I would think.

But unless your going to run through water over your hood it's not something you need, and many if not most water that deep that a track crosses will be moving too fast at that depth to ford anyway snorel or not.

I have seen many fans pull through a radiator and damage them, you are better off either welding a ring that the blades will hit or just loosening the fan belts. better safe than sorry

ntsqd

10-25-2007, 10:03 PM

BC Broncos radiator guard:
http://bcbroncos.com/fan%20gard%202.gif

http://www.bcbroncos.com/info.html

Fireman78

12-06-2007, 03:09 AM

[QUOTE I'll leave now before I get hit in the head with a snorkle.....;) QUOTE]

My wife calls it a "Dorkle"

kcowyo

12-06-2007, 06:35 AM

I just wanted to make a reply so articulate could see his thread hit 20 pages.

Surely this must be one of the seven signs of Armageddon.... :removeredX:

Dragon

12-06-2007, 11:10 AM

Mine finally arrived from Australia.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2350/periscopeop0.png

TeriAnn

12-07-2007, 02:33 PM

I was going to mention the same thing. My 110 was used by an English gentleman will touring Australia. Had the engine rebuilt there because of the bull dust that he experienced. After the rebuild he added a tractor cyclonic pre filter to the system. You can see it mounted on the left front wing. Not very sexy but gets the job done. I would like to mount it up higher as it makes a blind spot.

Au contrarie mon amie only the most haute Mallterrain vehicles have cyclonic prefilters mounted on snorkles. Standard snorkels are so yesterday.

A cylonic preffilter provides that extra bit of protection if you happen to be downwind of the parking lot sweeper when you come in to catch the 4AM after Thanksgiving sale. And having the prefilter mounted down where you can see it allows you to watch the little vanes twirl round and round providing entertainment whilst siting in a parking lot isle, blocking traffic, as someone loads their vehicle before leaving a desirable parking spot.

Sometimes you don't have a lot of choice as to where the snorkel exits the top of your vehicle and the mounting instructions for Donaldson cyclonic prefilters state that the prefilter should be mounted at least six inches above the mounting surface.

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/GRdetailPics/Snorkel.jpg

If you are gonna have the badest mallterrain rig in the parking lot you gotta have a cyclonic prefilter.;) ;) ;)

Oh and if you are worried about deep water collecting in parking lot low spots, an electric cooling fan with an on-off switch on the instrument panel is so right and gives you the confidence to know that your mallterrain vehicle can handle anything you might encounter on the worst of shopping days.

DaktariEd

12-07-2007, 03:17 PM

Au contrarie mon amie only the most haute Mallterrain vehicles have cyclonic prefilters mounted on snorkles. Standard snorkels are so yesterday.

A cylonic preffilter provides that extra bit of protection if you happen to be downwind of the parking lot sweeper when you come in to catch the 4AM after Thanksgiving sale. And having the prefilter mounted down where you can see it allows you to watch the little vanes twirl round and round providing entertainment whilst siting in a parking lot isle, blocking traffic, as someone loads their vehicle before leaving a desirable parking spot.

Sometimes you don't have a lot of choice as to where the snorkel exits the top of your vehicle and the mounting instructions for Donaldson cyclonic prefilters state that the prefilter should be mounted at least six inches above the mounting surface.

If you are gonna have the badest mallterrain rig in the parking lot you gotta have a cyclonic prefilter.;) ;) ;)

Oh and if you are worried about deep water collecting in parking lot low spots, an electric cooling fan with an on-off switch on the instrument panel is so right and gives you the confidence to know that your mallterrain vehicle can handle anything you might encounter on the worst of shopping days.

:xxrotflma :xxrotflma :xxrotflma

Too funny!!

http://www.geocities.com/daktaried/safari.gif

articulate

12-07-2007, 03:29 PM

I just wanted to make a reply so articulate could see his thread hit 20 pages.

Surely this must be one of the seven signs of Armageddon.... :removeredX:
We've come so far, haven't we? :snorkel: And now we go farther.

Safari has produced a unit for the late model Frontier. :smileeek:
http://www.safarisnorkel.com/pics/vehicles/ss730_navara_fin.jpg

cruiser guy

12-07-2007, 05:25 PM

Any one have a place for a reasonably priced snorkle for a Land Cruiser '60 series?

The ARB distributor here in Guatemala wants nearly $600!!!

madizell

12-07-2007, 10:40 PM

There are nearly too many opinions expressed here to address them all, but there are several which I have to assume are based on assumptions rather than on personal experience.

1. Snorkels are for mall cruisers.

While many snorkels are, in fact, installed on mall cruisers because of the look, they were not designed for show. They do just what they appear to do -- they raise the intake level from under the hood to a point at or near the top of the windshield. Doing this provides some benefits which may or may not be of value to you, depending on where and how you drive.

2. Snorkels provide cleaner air.

That would depend on where and how you drive. In caravan in dusty conditions, you can and generally do get less dust concentration at the top of your windshield, but only if you tend to tailgate the guy in front of you. If you hang well back, the dust rises and whether the air then is cleaner at windshield height or not may be debatable.

3. Unless you raise your exhaust to above water level, the snorkel does no good.

This could not be further from the truth. An internal combustion engine will run indefinitely with the exhaust outlet under water. I have experienced a running engine with the exhaust 4 to 6 feet under water, with the motor at idle for 15 minutes or more.

4. A snorkel will provide more air than an air cleaner under the hood.

This has to have been spoken without thought. First, there is probably not an apples-to-apples comparison going here unless the snorkel is attached to the stock airbox without any further modifications, such as a K&N filter. If the only modification is the snorkel itself, it will generally provide less air flow than the stock inlet because of the length of the tubing through which the air must flow. There is a formula for surface drag versus length, but as a quick example which most would probably understand, try breathing through a short piece of garden hose (under 12"). Then try breathing through a 50' garden hose. The hose is the same diameter throughout, but as the length increases, so does the resistance to the passage of air through it. Hence, longer intake lengths associated with snorkels decrease air flow, all other things being equal. If you install a snorkel and a high flow air filter, the effect may be a net-zero change over stock. If you point the snorkel forward you may get a small ram-air effect, but the effect is slight due to the small size of the inlet, and to have any effect at all, you have to be going forward at a high rate of speed. Most folks don't install snorkels in lieu of ram-air intakes.

5. I don't need a snorkel to drive through deep water because of the bow wave effect which keeps water out from under the hood.

This is only true to the extend that you stay in motion, and then only if you are driving against the flow of the water if there is any flow. If you drive downstream, you lose the bow wave and water will rise under the hood. If you stop, water will rise. I don't know about you guys, but deep water crossings don't always go as planned. I have often needed to stop and even reverse while crossing deep water. There is a serious risk of ingesting water if you drive deep enough without a snorkel.

6. Fans with clutches won't flex forward into the radiator.

Really? Take a look at the back side of my radiator some time. It takes time for a clutched fan to stop spinning, even if the water is deep enough and solid enough to actually stop the fan from spinning, and during that brief time, the blades will flex. Whether they flex far enough to contact the radiator depends on conditions and clearance. In my experience, the fan rarely stops spinning just because of water under the hood. For racing, I use an electric fan with an override switch so I can turn the fan off for deep water crossings. For general trails use I use a clutched fan and drive more carefully in deep water.

7. Unless you waterproof your electricals and electronics under the hood, a snorkel will do you no good.

Waterproofing and a snorkel are not the same thing and address two quite different problems. Most engines will suffer water on them without problems as long as the water is not deep and static, and most modern ignitions systems are already very waterproof. I did do a bit of silicon sealing in the base of my distributor because the Ford design uses a two-piece distributor base. Other than that, though, I didn't do anything to waterproof the motor, and it has never had a problem running through up to 4 feet of moving water. Waterproofing is a very good idea if you see a lot of water. If you don't, however, you will probably just be keeping water in your ignition rather than keeping it out. Airborne moisture will condense on surfaces and you will get water contamination in a distributor if it is "sealed" because you can't keep air out entirely, and air aways has some moisture in it. I would suggest that sealing components under the hood is okay if you do so to prevent dust and water from getting in readily, but you should always leave a drain or vent to eliminate water vapor contamination.

So, whether you need to install a snorkel depends on where and how you drive. If you never cross water deeper than the tops of your tires, you probably don't need a snorkel. If you don't drive in endless caravans in desert dust (high-speed stuff where the dust is so thick you can't see the guy in front of you without tailgating) a snorkel will be of limited use. If you can't predict that you will not see deep water and thick dust, a snorkel can be considered to be preventive medicine. In central Arizona, there is only a limited use for a snorkel unless you like to drive through rivers in flood. In Alaska, we crossed through 3 to 4 feet of water quite often, and going without a snorkel invited disaster.

Fireman78

12-07-2007, 10:58 PM

I have seen many fans pull through a radiator and damage them, you are better off either welding a ring that the blades will hit or just loosening the fan belts. better safe than sorry

Dude thats a great picture!!! It's too bad more women aren't impressed with that type of stuff. My wife still doesn't understand after 13 years of marriage.

Overland Hadley

12-08-2007, 03:50 AM

Madizell, Thanks for the informative post.

efuentes

12-08-2007, 08:15 AM

Down here, we dont need no stinking snorkels :sombrero:

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z111/mundofuentes/rutaindependencia2007/RIODECHINIPAS.jpg

or something like that was overhead before 3 out of 4 JK went south after the crossing, lol

Rio Chinipas, Summer 2007

Blizz

12-09-2007, 06:13 PM

Ops sorry, I forgot to post my snorkel build-up:

http://www.yotatech.com/f88/custom-snorkel-build-up-79074/

David

Fireman78

12-11-2007, 04:09 PM

I think I'm gonna install a snorkle on my wifes Toyota Camry. Just because.

overlander

01-06-2008, 06:48 PM

And the war continues! Food for thought.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mysp9FeOfd8&feature=related

Purple People Eater

03-15-2008, 07:40 AM

We've come so far, haven't we? :snorkel: And now we go farther.

Safari has produced a unit for the late model Frontier. :smileeek:
http://www.safarisnorkel.com/pics/vehicles/ss730_navara_fin.jpg

Bump.

Mark, tell me you're gonna do it. For someone who's such a strong advocate for the snorkel, and seeing how it's just about the only thing missing from your Frontier... c'mon. Dooooo iiiiiitttttt.

I'm buying my Jeep some goodies for my birthday, and a snorkel may be on the list. We'll see.

Dragon

03-15-2008, 01:42 PM

I never pass up an opportunity for photos :yikes:

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/6383/art3fi1.jpg

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/4956/12aq1.png

:coffee: :coffee:

I Leak Oil

03-15-2008, 02:28 PM

SOAZ

03-15-2008, 04:32 PM

Can't say that I've actually "needed" my snorkle but I'd rather not find out the hard way that I should have had one. I don't care for most "bolt on" items so I built my own for my series rover. Modified the original oil bath filter and used a cap for a Ford tractor. Some 2 1/2" exhaust pipe for the rest.
Jason T.

A friend and I were looking to make our own "stealthy" snorkel to keep the truck looking as stock as possible. I like the round stovepipe look of this snorkel. Anyone know where I can find one? Or fine the end piece?

Tanto

03-15-2008, 04:59 PM

I lost an engine crossing a 20' wide section of water when my air box dipped below the water line for a second. Lesson is a snorkel is $400 and an engine is $4,000. Even without doing anything else, a snorkel would have saved me $3,600.

JackW

03-15-2008, 09:01 PM

I built one out of 3" diameter aluminum tubing and capped it off with a Centri precleaner. A friend of mine hydrolocked his Range Rover when his right front wheel went in a hole in a creek crossing in North Georgia. Mine's a diesel so I don't have to worry about the electronics. Plus it looks cool and gives you the opportunity for conversations like this:

A lady getting out of her car next to my Rover in a parking lot really asked these questions:

Lady - pointing at the snorkel: "What's that thing?"
Me - "It's a snorkel."
Lady - "But what is it for?"
Me - "It allows the truck to run underwater."
Lady, with a puzzled look on her face - "Does that happen often?"

I Leak Oil

03-15-2008, 09:23 PM

A friend and I were looking to make our own "stealthy" snorkel to keep the truck looking as stock as possible. I like the round stovepipe look of this snorkel. Anyone know where I can find one? Or fine the end piece?
Tim,
I got mine through a NAPA that sells alot of parts for farm tractors. It's for a Ford but I don't remember what model. It's great for my 4 cylinder rover engine but a little small for anything bigger. A company by the name of Mantec makes snorkle kits for the V8 rovers and has a larger version of what I bought. Check around at some of the rover parts suppliers, they may be able to help you get one.
Make your own system, it's cheaper, better and unique. Most of all, make sure it's functional, NO POSERS!:REExeSwimmingHL:
Jason T.

mcm4090

03-15-2008, 09:26 PM

We've come so far, haven't we? :snorkel: And now we go farther.

Safari has produced a unit for the late model Frontier. :smileeek:
http://www.safarisnorkel.com/pics/vehicles/ss730_navara_fin.jpg
The Safari is nice but I perfer the looks of factory Nissan snorkel.

NOT MY TRUCK

http://www.newnavara.net/ridepics/thewarrens/thewarrensweb_1340.jpg
http://www.newnavara.net/ridepics/thewarrens/thewarrensemail2.JPG

Superu

03-15-2008, 10:03 PM

Although no one makes a snorkel for my Outback, Safari was nice enough to work with me to find the closest fit.

Do I need it? Probably not. Does it provide a nice high location for cold air intake, contribute to the start of many amiable conversations, and allow me to cross a few streams in VT and CA that I otherwise might have chosen to drive the long way around? Abso-freakin-lutley! :D

As anyone can tell, my little Superu is a lesson in functional overkill. It does everything I ask of it and I smile every time I walk up to it! Isn't that what it's all about? :smiley_drive:

http://lh5.google.com/wbanas/R5vvvwa6uHI/AAAAAAAAB0k/DtjQKiw5AXo/s800/Horseneck1.jpg

And once that lift kit gets here from AU..... whoooaaaa baby!

http://lh5.google.com/wbanas/Rv_oSKtBGlI/AAAAAAAABgc/U4LfH0CSFEQ/s800/P9303521.JPG

The Superu (http://thesuperu.com)

FourByLand

03-15-2008, 10:20 PM

Very nice!!!

Are you planning on a mild all terrain tire???

Superu

03-15-2008, 10:29 PM

I'm running Yokohama Geloandar AT/S's all around.

http://lh4.google.com/wbanas/Rsd381S9JbI/AAAAAAAAA1Y/Vmsy-D9POlw/s400/GeolandarAT%2B2.jpg

They've been excellent on deeply rutted beach sand trails, in local mud and throughout this winter's snow. I have a 1" suspension lift with King Springs, but once the 2: body lift arrives, I may be able to squeeze a slightly taller tire in there. :snorkel:

SOAZ

03-16-2008, 05:16 AM

Tim,
I got mine through a NAPA that sells alot of parts for farm tractors. It's for a Ford but I don't remember what model. It's great for my 4 cylinder rover engine but a little small for anything bigger. A company by the name of Mantec makes snorkle kits for the V8 rovers and has a larger version of what I bought. Check around at some of the rover parts suppliers, they may be able to help you get one.
Make your own system, it's cheaper, better and unique. Most of all, make sure it's functional, NO POSERS!:REExeSwimmingHL:
Jason T.

Good call. I'll check around at some tractor suppliers and the rover places. thanks!
I really want it to be functional so I don't have to get lucky next time I end up doing this.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i190/soaz/Trips%20and%20Adventures/2-3-08%20Sycamore/Tim-4.jpg There were a couple of deeper ones, but no one was worrying about taking shots. I got lucky, so next time I'll try to be prepared. :26_7_2:

AndrewClarke

06-27-2008, 01:22 PM

I haven't read all the replies here, but I was asked elsewhere on the board to share my last weekend's experience here. I have a 200tdi Land Rover 110 and was at the Ottawa Valley Birthday Party in Ontario, Canada. I usually drive pretty carefully through water, and was cruising through some water as the second vehicle in a convoy, driving relatively slowly and carefully. However, I hadn't been off-roading in a while (new baby) and had more angst in me to "have fun" than was safe.

The guy in front of me stopped to take some photos (see below) and so I decided to gun it for the camera. Well, that's what I did, and next thing I knew I'd stalled my engine. To make an ongoing story shorter, I now only have compression in two of my cylinders.

With a heavy heart, I called my wife later in the day and explained what happened. The FIRST thing she said to me was, "Well, if you'd had a snorkel this wouldn't have happened." I can't argue with that. She then very graciously told me that these things happen and if I never broke my truck it just meant that I wasn't wheeling hard enough. While I can't 100% agree with that sentiment, I appreciated the support (a LOT). I really love my wife.

I've owned this truck for two years now, and before that I had a '96 Discovery. I'd gotten a little water into the intake of the Discovery and destroyed the MAF sensor. I got a used replacement for $300, which would have paid for a snorkel.

With the 110, I've been idly looking on and off since I bought the truck for a deal on a raised air intake, but never really saw any sales and always felt that I had something more important to buy. I bought a roof-top tent, suspension lift (needed new springs and shocks anyway), Wright offroad mats, onboard computer with GPS, winch, etc. but always put off the raised air intake.

I'm not a hard-core off-roader like some, meaning I'm building a capable long-distance travel vehicle rather than a rock crawler. I don't intend to bury my truck up to the windscreen in water. However, I'm 100% getting a snorkel as part of fixing my truck after my bad decision.

People can mention how there's all sorts of other things that need to be done to properly waterproof an engine, and they're right. However, why not at least eliminate ONE source of expensive breakdown? You've got to start somewhere.

Also, for the record and for those of you not familiar with the 200tdi engine, it's mechanically fuel injected and has no ECU. It has a viscous cooling fan.

A couple weeks previously I'd pulled the viscous fan and had put in an electric cooling fan with a cut-off switch. This was obviously off during the water excursion. I have extended axle breather lines, not that they would have caused any engine damage. As the photos show, I wasn't in "extreme" water but was just going too fast for the conditions.

Now I get to learn how to rebuild an engine (never done that before) and I hope for the best.

- Andrew.

R_Lefebvre

06-27-2008, 04:21 PM

I read the first page, and last page of this thread. That's about all that's needed to make my point.

On the first point, somebody stated snorkels are useless unless you do everything else to waterproof the engine.

Now we have the perfect example of what that just isn't the case. If my electrics get wet. Or if I stall and water comes in the exhaust... none of these will result in a DESTROYED engine. If the water comes into the exhaust because of a stalled engine, it won't bend the rods because they weren't moving in the first place.

A snorkel is the only defense against this disastrous outcome.

As far as the bow-wave is concerned, I haven't been in this situation yet with a truck, but I have with my enduro bike. I launched into a puddle that appeared small (I was in a competition, which explains the haste), but it turned out to be quite steep, with a steep entry. I plunged with no opportunity for a bow wave. Luckily it was not quite steep enough to drown the bike. Could have easily gone the other way.

FourByLand

06-27-2008, 05:01 PM

Are you going to put a snorkel on your dirt bike?

ntsqd

06-27-2008, 05:30 PM

Don't forget that the vehicle above is diesel powered. It doesn't need a spark to make things happen in the cylinders. That is a critical difference as to whether you need to waterproof the under-hood electrical or not.

I personally don't want one because I don't need one. Water crossings that deep in the desert are flowing way, way too fast to even consider crossing. I happen to think they look kind of silly, but that's entirely subjective. More power to those who do need or want one.
Now what Teri-Ann has makes the most sense to me......

AndrewClarke

06-27-2008, 05:35 PM

I happen to think they look kind of silly, but that's entirely subjective.

No, I'm sorry but that's not subjective. Chicks dig snorkels :)

- Andrew.

ntsqd

06-27-2008, 05:39 PM

Hum, mine doesn't. :wings:

cruiseroutfit

06-28-2008, 07:37 PM

Don't forget that the vehicle above is diesel powered. It doesn't need a spark to make things happen in the cylinders. That is a critical difference as to whether you need to waterproof the under-hood electrical or not....

ntsqd... you would be amazed how deep your stock FJ60's ignition system can go. O-ring sealed and vented distributor (vented to air cleaner) and the ignitor systems are pretty bulletproof themselves. They set them up pretty tight from the factory :cool:

madizell

06-29-2008, 02:02 AM

Are you going to put a snorkel on your dirt bike?

You may laugh at the idea, but back in 1973 I ran the Daniel Boone Hare and Hound (a 50 mile off-road motorcycle race) with my 1971 Hodaka. It was not what you would call waterproof, and had an exposed K&N-style air filter directly on the carb under the seat. No side guards, moulding, or any of the happy stuff new bikes now come with.

It rained for two days prior to the race, and one hour prior to the start, the officials warned us that there was "water on the course." This was a euphemism as several miles of the course were right up a creek bed, and 2 miles of the creek course had to be cut that morning due to excessively deep water. What was left ran from one to 4 feet deep.

I grabbed a roll of duct tape and made a tent around the carb, filter and seat so that air got the filter only from the rear up under the seat. I finished 10th place out of 450 starters, and had no water issues.

Call it what you want but the ducting I created with tape was a snorkel. They work.

FourByLand

06-30-2008, 01:49 AM

Who said I was laughing or don't believe they are a good defense?

I am also glad you did well on in the race and had no water issues.

FourByLand

06-30-2008, 01:53 AM

As far as the bow-wave is concerned, I haven't been in this situation yet with a truck, but I have with my enduro bike. I launched into a puddle that appeared small (I was in a competition, which explains the haste), but it turned out to be quite steep, with a steep entry. I plunged with no opportunity for a bow wave. Luckily it was not quite steep enough to drown the bike. Could have easily gone the other way.

This makes no sense to me first you said you haven't been in a bow-wave situation with a truck but you have on your enduro and then you tell about how you plunged with no opportunity for a bow-wave...

Pad

07-02-2008, 04:10 PM

I'm sure its been stated already but gas engins dont like being submerged, you can make some mods to help like link a horn to your dist., a blast of air before you hit water can create a possitive pressure situation. Or what about the bottom of a nobby plastic pop bottle siliconed to your dist. cap w/wires coming through the nobs(also siliconed)?
I wonder about temp getting high enough to melt it though?
I have a snorkle on my truck (came with it), not 100% sold on it yet, pulled the air filter and had 2-handfulls of crap in the housing. Mostly sticks, bugs, & leaves, I plan to add some screen to it before I go into the bush again. I wonder about driving in the rain too, should I flip the top around to face backwards?
I also have a prefilter top for it, but mines not as slick as Terrianns, mine is more like 12" dia HUGE, hers looks like the size of a cd 50 pack case (hmmm now I'm thinking) does that take a mesh round filter in it like a shopvac?(thought #2).
Anyways if the bow-wave situation goes wrong or you loose traction and dont shut your motor down before the water levels comes back up I suppose it would help, but you can keep a nice little bubble of air in the engine bay if everything goes your way.
As for the regular people, its the first thing they notice! Anoying mostly, not do you have on board air, or lockers, or what size tires/ gears ect. its always ewww:yikes:a snorkle!

madizell

07-05-2008, 04:19 AM

I have had my gas V-8 in 4 feet of water so many times I have lost track, and the only times I have had trouble was with a wet air filter element under the hood when the snorkel was disconnected. No electrical or electronic issues, and minimal water proofing on the distributor. I think gas motors have gotten a bad reputation that they don't deserve, especially now that almost no one is using points any more.

TeriAnn

07-05-2008, 03:38 PM

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i190/soaz/Trips%20and%20Adventures/2-3-08%20Sycamore/Tim-4.jpg There were a couple of deeper ones, but no one was worrying about taking shots. I got lucky, so next time I'll try to be prepared.

Heck, that's barely getting the front bumper wet. No snorkel needed there.

cruiseroutfit

07-05-2008, 05:52 PM

Heck, that's barely getting the front bumper wet. No snorkel needed there.

In the case of that generation 4Runner/Tacoma, 4-6" deeper or a small hole on the front PS and he could have ingested water. The stock pickup is just slightly above the front bumper in the fender. So agreed, wouldn't need it as the photo is taken... but take it from someone that has lost a motor do to water, the $300 snorkel is cheaper :D

UK4X4

07-05-2008, 06:12 PM

Yep planning on a bow wave is fine....inside depth reaches the plugs and your history.....

where the snorkel helps...is for the unseen, unplanned dunkings..as well as the anti dust properties....which on a sandy trail you can easily aquire the equivalent of 6 months dirt in 6 hrs with a standard intake

ie pooddling along on a trail in your TJ, in 3" of water, suddenly the front RHS drops into a hole.....you have water above the window.....the intake is in the front RHS of the hood...

It floods, engine dies...

no planning, no bow wave...just a slip of the track, into the ditch at the side of the road, and your going home on a tow truck.

The snorkel allows the engine to breathe better in dusty conditions, and provides insurance against damaging that important lump of reciprocating steel under the hood, against unforceen dunkings.

TeriAnn

07-05-2008, 08:59 PM

In the case of that generation 4Runner/Tacoma, 4-6" deeper or a small hole on the front PS and he could have ingested water. The stock pickup is just slightly above the front bumper in the fender.

Golly! So those Toyotas really are hydrophobic. I just assumed the air intake would be at the top of the engine bay. I thought that was an air scoop sitting on the middle of the bonnet. Is it just a bling bulge?

cruiseroutfit

07-06-2008, 12:22 AM

Golly! So those Toyotas really are hydrophobic. I just assumed the air intake would be at the top of the engine bay. I thought that was an air scoop sitting on the middle of the bonnet. Is it just a bling bulge?

Sadly the scoops are completely non functional. The OE intake is right behind the passenger side headlight. So if your headlights are getting wet, so is your air filter :D

cruiseroutfit

07-06-2008, 05:20 AM

An oldie but a goody:
http://www.rockcrawler.com/departments/landcruiser/whatley/jan0198/jan0198.htm

Good read regardless of which side of the fence you are on. Pretty Land Cruiser specific but good info I think.

Spikepretorius

07-06-2008, 08:07 AM

TeriAnn those bonnet bulges, when on a diesel, are for the intercooler and not just for looks. Just for your info.
(well mine is)

TeriAnn

07-06-2008, 02:30 PM

TeriAnn those bonnet bulges, when on a diesel, are for the intercooler and not just for looks. Just for your info.
(well mine is)

An intercooler mounted at the centre top of the bonnet sitting over the middle of the engine??

Where I come from a top centre mounted hood scoop is usually sitting directly over a pair of double pumper holleys. Or at least a double row of IDF Webers. Laguna Seca raceway is nearby and and during the week of the Monterey Historics and Pebble Beach concourse some very amazing cars become a very common sight.

Sorry I just think it is sad when a factory adds a pretend hood scoop to make a vehicle more "sporty". It's kind of like a decal that says "4X4 off road" makes a vehicle more of an off road vehicle.

You would think that Toyota would have mounted the air intake of their 4X4s higher than they evidently did. Or at least had a factory snorkel option. Heck, even my car had an available factory optional snorkel when it was new.

An if there's a count, I'm pro snorkel.

Spikepretorius

07-06-2008, 06:44 PM

An intercooler mounted at the centre top of the bonnet sitting over the middle of the engine??
Actually yes!

but I digress. off topic from me finished

FlyingWen

07-07-2008, 05:37 AM

I can't believe this thread is still going! Wil's attempt of explaining to me the benefits of a snorkel where I see it as useless is what started this whole thread (Thanks Mark!).

As for an update, I agreed to the Taco snorkel and I must admit... it looks really freaking cool!!!

OverlandZJ

07-07-2008, 05:48 AM

As for an update, I agreed to the Taco snorkel and I must admit... it looks really freaking cool!!!

So it's official... the ladies really do dig it.

:wings:

Martinjmpr

07-07-2008, 01:47 PM

Blizz

07-07-2008, 02:54 PM

Hello,

A snorkel is very useful...

Look what did a friend of mine with his 4Runner:

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=BlF91Kq8J1M

David

Ron B

07-07-2008, 06:01 PM

that's pretty deep. Looks like he almost got boned. Wish we had more diesels here in the states in small/mid size.

R_Lefebvre

07-08-2008, 05:10 PM

This makes no sense to me first you said you haven't been in a bow-wave situation with a truck but you have on your enduro and then you tell about how you plunged with no opportunity for a bow-wave...

Poorly written, maybe...

What I meant was, I've never been in REALLY deep water with the truck, only somewhere around 24". I have been in really deep water with the bike. During that Hare Scramble, I had to go through that hole 4 times. I also had to go through a flooded trail that was somewhere between 24-36" deep and a few hundred feet long. There was a bow-wave there, but I'm not sure if it helps the bike since the intake is more than half-way back. The front fender was under water, not sure where that put the water level on the intake.

My main point of the whole thing was to say that my bike ran regardless of the spark plug/wire/boot being under water. And that sometimes crap happens, and you find yourself in deeper water than you expected, and a snorkel is the ONLY thing that will save you from instant catastrophic engine damage. Period.

An intercooler mounted at the centre top of the bonnet sitting over the middle of the engine??

Where I come from a top centre mounted hood scoop is usually sitting directly over a pair of double pumper holleys. Or at least a double row of IDF Webers. Laguna Seca raceway is nearby and and during the week of the Monterey Historics and Pebble Beach concourse some very amazing cars become a very common sight.

Yes, this is what Subaru does with all their turbocharged engines as well. The hood mounted IC works fine as long as you're moving. When you're stopped, it acts as a chimney and becomes an interheater. So, it has it's disadvantages. However, the setup is also cheaper, easier to design, lighter, less turbo lag, and less pressure drop than a front mounted intecooler. It's also less prone to damage.

The Subaru rally cars usually convert to front mounted coolers for higher horsepower.

overlander

08-28-2008, 07:57 PM

I'm going to end this war right now with this link. :safari-rig: The debate is over. Abandon ship, and god speed to you all.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_at3+shtml/144212.shtml?tswind120#contents

This will be one for the record books. (mommy, where's my woobie?):REExeSwimmingHL: :eek:

R_Lefebvre

08-28-2008, 08:39 PM

I can now say that I HAVE been in VERY deep water with the truck. Water that would have in fact drowned my bike for sure. I measured 36" high water mark on the truck, and that is after the bouyancy effect on the truck body. I expect water depth was more like 38-40".

A few things became apparent:

1) As I suspected, a modern electronic gasoline vehicle in good repair and with zero electrical preparation, can in fact ford water this deep without any problems.

2) The factory intake system in the Disco is capable of handling water depth which is as high or higher than I ever intended to attempt.

3) I still want a snorkel anyway. It would make these events much more safe and fun.

4) And it was only luck, not driving skill or engineering that prevented engine destruction. One wrong move, or undetected hole would have meant certain drowning.

5) There was some evidence of water entering the airbox. It appears it actually got in via some pathway through the sides of the box, not through the intake. I'm guessing the fan slung it onto the box and it got through the seals due to inertia. A snorkel won't prevent this, so something else has to be done in addition to the snorkel.