Any info on old 4x4 Winnebago?

[cstamm81]

So I've always had this dream of trying to live and travel for an extended period of time in a camper of some sort. Although I'd love to have a camper Mog or some other exotic rig, the $$$ just isnt there. Enter the old camper / RV possibility.
I randomly surf craigslist for interesting RV's, and I ran across this one:
http://boston.craigslist.org/sob/rvs/1008198090.html
The kicker is it is 4wd! I know it's a longshot but anyone have any experience with something similar, or just an old RV in general? I would imagine the drive train should be redone, but I can rebuild a small block chrysler for about $2000, good trans for about $1000. He has sent me interior pics, and it seems clean and looks to be somewhat redone. I can't tell if it's full time 4wd, I am hoping it has a transfer case. Thoughts on this jalopy?

[Lynn]

I'm no expert on Winnies, but I did help my father build and repair campers when I was a kid.

Obviously, since the pix are on the beach and there are rod holders on the back, you should be worried about rust and water intrusion.

That Winnie looks to be a typical construction. i.e. wood framing w/ aluminum skin. You would need to inspect it really well and be vigilant for water intrusion and wood rot, especially around any roof penetrations (A/C and vents). Water stains on the ceiling are a bad sign.

If it happens to have a fiberglass roof, that’s a bonus, but I don’t think Winnie did that. The roof is probably tin or aluminum sheet over wood framing, and would have to have been resealed on a regular basis, along with the seams where the walls meet the roof re-caulked, or it would get water intrusion and wood rot. Pay particular attention to the areas around the roof AC and vents for signs of bad caulking and water intrusion.

There is typically a piece of screw-on metal trim on the outside where the sides meet the roof. If they will let you, pull out a few of the screws at strategic locations and look for discoloration of the screws and rotten wood underneath. Sniff the screw holes and see if they smell moldy. Take a flashlight and peer inside the screw holes as best you can.

I recently went to look at a trailer that, it turns out, had been used as a 'beach cottage.' The walls were bowed out, and there was water damage to the floor. Not only was there a stain on the linoleum by the door, I could feel soft spots in the underlayment when I walked around. I walked away before I bothered to pull any screws.

Tempting as a 4x4 Winnie might be, I’ll bet you would have to do an awful lot of work, possibly tearing it down to the chassis and starting over. On the other hand, if the 4X4 chassis is fairly rust-free, and the appliances are decent, it might be worth buying, tearing down, and starting over.

I suppose that there is the chance that it was owned and maintained by a particularly anal Type A that would have stayed on top of all the preventive maintenance over the years, but I wouldn't count on it.

Personally, I don’t have that much time or money to invest.

[Colorado Ron]

I think the 318 would be way underpowered. I would recommend buying the newest, nicest RV you can afford and then convert to 4x4 if you want. 4x4 conversions really arent that hard.

[Superu]

It looks like you should be selling fried clams out of it! :chef:


But seriously, I'd be concerned if it's spent a lot of time at New England beaches over the past 39 years unless it was meticulously maintained.

The 318 will haul it around the highway but have to agree that it would be underpowered for anything that required serious pulling power.

Good luck.

[ntsqd]

That's a young group of guys Baja surfing expedition machine.

For the rest of us it is a bit old. It will most likely be a closed knuckle Dana 60 front axle. Meaning borderline undersized drum front brakes on a heavy vehicle. The little that I know about converting those to disc brakes is that you may as well replace the whole axle as the cost would be about the same when it's all said and done. (I'm sure someone can do it for less, but not everyone can.)

I'm with Ron. Buy the best that you can afford in a late model, with a budget set aside for a 4WD conversion. I'd research any commonality in the chassis of your preference. Say that it's Ford. Look into what it would take to transplant the same weight class F series 4WD front suspension and transfer case. Same with Dodge and GM.

[kerry]

Those are wood frame aluminium skin. Very weak construction. I've owned an older Travco. FAR superior construction. Steel frame and fiberglass two piece body. If I were looking for something like that in 4wd I might consider retrofitting that 4wd chassi to a Travco. The Cummins 6BT is also a pretty easy substitute for the 318, 413 or 440's typically found in 70's Dodge motorhomes.

[Christian P.]

like ntqsd said, this is perfect for a group of 18-23 yo guys going down to party in Baja...or going to Burning Man...

:)

sorry this is just too old. you will endup having to replace everything to make it fun and reliable.

I don't think a 4wd on a camper like this is a good idea.
go offroad and you will be reassembling all the cabinets for the next 2 weeks.

I think you should buy a 2wd motorhome and carry a dirt bike in the back for when you really want to go explore

[Jeep]

I think the 318 would be way underpowered. I would recommend buying the newest, nicest RV you can afford and then convert to 4x4 if you want. 4x4 conversions really arent that hard.

What Ron said. If you get a class C (van style) especially a Ford chassis the conversion is very straight forward.

[Lutzy48]

If you are looking for a 4x4 camper, take a look at the Tiger CX. I know there is a relatively recent one for sale on Craig'sList...

http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/rvs/996007660.html

The Tiger website is at...

http://www.tigermotorhomes.com/

There is a support group on Yahoo...

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/tigermotorhomeowners/

AEL

[cstamm81]

thanks for the replies gentlemen. I assumed it would be drum brakes on the front, and the pictures confirm it. Looks like a Dana 60 front as was stated, and I do have experience with the old closed knuckle axles. Definitely need to be ripped out vs converting IMO. Owner sent me underside pics, looks a bit too rusty for my tastes.
Are there any older RV's that anyone has experience with and would recommend? Seems Travcos have a bit of a following. I agree if I could throw more money at a newer unit it would be ideal. I just feel if I could find an older unit owned by a really particular owner it could be worth it. I know anything old will need TLC and ongoing repairs, but I can handle that. I don't need 4wd, I'd be happier towing a Jeep or Cruiser bhind it for off road duties. I might check out this 80 dodge, I'd guess it has disc brakes in the front and it sounds like it was taken care of: http://reading.craigslist.org/rvs/996967437.html
Again, if there are any particular units to look for like old Travcos, let me know. Thanks!

[kerry]

I might check out this 80 dodge, I'd guess it has disc brakes in the front and it sounds like it was taken care of: http://reading.craigslist.org/rvs/996967437.html
Again, if there are any particular units to look for like old Travcos, let me know. Thanks!

I'd stay away from stick and aluminum construction myself. Look for something stronger like a Travco, Barth, or similar.

[cstamm81]

Checking out some info on Travcos now, interesting stuff.

[Loco-Nomad]

I didn't know Winnie even made a 4X4 Class A!! That is crazy!!

As posted earlier, if this was taken off road for any semi off road trails, the interior and such would just come apart. If it's 4 wheel drive that is cool though but I have owned MANY old RV's and motorhomes and they always are cheap but ALWAYS cost me way more in the end. I love the idea but it just doesn't pay in the end... Sucks since it has everything there but you can find what you want elsewhere.

[ntsqd]

There is at least one Travco out there with 4WD. A guy in a semi-local 4WD club owned it the last that I knew. The story was the William Shatner, yes him, got it stuck somewhere in the SoCA desert and decided THAT wasn't going to happen again! The guy called it the "Enterprise".......

[kerry]

This mentions Shatner's 4wd Travco:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travco

[truck mechanic]

most of the winnies I have seen on the beach around here are homespun conversions. There used to be a ton of those on the beaches when I started going down there in the mid 80s . dont see to many now a days.
Paul

[cstamm81]

I have been doing some research and it definitely seems a good idea to sty awy from the old stick and aluminum builds, thatnks for the neads up. It appears there are a few desirable older RV's out there, Travco, Barth, FMC, Airstream, and some Foretravels. The old Travcos are neat looking IMO: http://www.travco.org/images/Mvc-210f.jpg
Apparently the most common is the Travco 270, which is 27 feet long. Also, looks like a lot came with 413 engines, which I'm assuming is the same famed Mopar 413 Max Wedge engine. Hmm, I wonder if one of these could tow an 80 series LC on a lightweight trailer?

[JeepN95YJ]

This mentions Shatner's 4wd Travco:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travco

The Shatner Enterprise was for sale on ebay a while back. I snagged a couple of pics:

[ntsqd]

The Shatner Enterprise was for sale on ebay a while back. I snagged a couple of pics:
Wonder if Grumpy sold it then? Thanks, those pics were taken just north of here on the Rincon.

[kerry]

I've owned a Travco 220 and almost bought both Barth's and FMC. There are far fewer FMC's in the world and parts are harder to find. However the 4 wheel independent suspension and rear engine are good designs. Engine tend to have some cooling issues. Some FMC's have interesting diesel conversions. Almost bought one with a Cummins 6BT. Some Barth's have similar problems to the FMC.
There are tons of Travco's out there and the 413 is a great engine. The 270 is the coolest design in my view. Foretravel continued to be built Travco's once they purchased the assets. They produced a few pusher diesels with either Detroit 8.2 or Cat 3208. They even produced a few front engined diesel versions with the Detroit 8.2.

[cstamm81]

I located a Travco 270 that is somewhat near me. I will hopefully check it out in the next few weeks. kerry, any pointers on things to look for with the Travco? It's 40 years old so I guess I can expect anything and everything to need repairing or replacing. I just wasn't sure if they had some type of achilles heel, frame rot or some other hard to repair type of thing.

[kerry]

Brakes. There are two different kinds. Early had vacuum assist brakes with secondary cylinders and boosters mounted on the frame behind the driver's seat. Parts can be hard to find but there's a guy in MA who can get the brake parts. Later models had hydraulic assist brakes using the power steering pump to provide motive force. My brakes lasted for 48k miles from new until about 2004. No frame problems that I know of although I live in Colorado where rust is usually non-existent. My 71 Travco had a clean frame. Many models had split rims. Those may be rims you don't want. I replaced mine with one piece rims. Some had 17.5 inch rims and those tires are hard to find.

[cstamm81]

Awesome info, thanks a ton.

[skip44]

This was a pretty common conversion on Cape Cod for running the dunes and surf fishing. Most of the mechanicals came from 3/4 or 1 ton Dodge pickups. I spent a lot of time under them refilling the propane, you dont want to go there, ugliest rust you have ever seen. The early Winnies were built with a bonded side wall, aluminum/ foam/ plywood (decorative inside finish). Very difficult to take apart if damaged. I did one with some success, but wouldnt recommend it now, this was 25 years ago.

[VikingVince]

So I've always had this dream of trying to live and travel for an extended period of time in a camper of some sort. Although I'd love to have a camper Mog or some other exotic rig, the $$$ just isnt there. Enter the old camper / RV possibility.


How about the older Toyota motorhomes...the Dolphin, Sunrader, Odyssey, etc?
A couple months ago I picked up a 1990 21' Toyota Odyssey, V6 engine, 50K miles...truck is in great shape and should last a long time, interior converted to a Tiki style...very funky...I love it. Check out the interior:

http://www.tikiroom.com/tikicentral/bb/viewtopic.php?topic=29177&forum=12&vpost=395766

I actually ended up getting it for $6900...I thought it was a deal. Although hard to come by, there are 4x4 Sunraders out there. I used to think that a 4x4 motorhome was something I really wanted. But then, the more I thought about it, except for the occasional snowy conditions or a beach there aren't really that many situations where you need 4x4 in a traditional motorhome since they aren't built to be taken offroad.

[tamangel]

not 4x4 but Nice rig..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo11DG1nuGk

Mike

plus a few other 4x4/6x6 MH links:
http://www.xplorermotorhome.com/6x6xcursion.html

just the possibilities...
http://www.tulsatruckmfg.com/Pages/buses1.html

Mike

[kerry]

Mike:
Yep, that's one nice Travco. The builder belongs to a Mercedes forum I frequent.

Here's what happens to 2x2's and aluminum in an accident:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj5U5hWWfis&feature=related

[kerry]

http://denver.craigslist.org/rvs/1020008997.html

[864x4rv]

It is funny to bring up the 4x4 motorhomes. I owned a 1997 Sportsmobile 4x4 while living in san diego a couple of years ago and then it got stolen from my driveway. At that time I decided to replace it with a 4x4 motorhome and starting searching for one. The Shatner Enterprise was available in ebay and I won the bid at $20K, but decided to pass on it because of the age and interior issues. Then I started looking for something newer and found a 1986 Winnebago 26' Elandan with the 4x4 conversion done at a shop in cape cod. I flew to Boston to look at and ended up buying and driving across the country to San Diego. I had a shop in Escondido redo the suspension and fixed the electrical issues and took a 3 week trip to Baja on it. The rig comes with the GM 454/T400 drive train. It performed great on the beaches and offroad. I will be replacing the interior this summer. I have been toying with idea of converting the rear duallies to SRW. I agree that I will not be able to get into the places I did with my sportsmobile, but at least the conforts are there.

The Elandan is built with a solid fiberglass outer layer and solid roof. There was no rust considering that the previous owner used it to camp out on the cape cod beaches.

The only mechanical issues I've had is the headers needed replacement and the transmission has a slow oil leak. Other than than, it makes for a pretty cool home away from home for the four of us. I can post pictures if anybody is interested.

864x4rv

[cstamm81]

864x4rv, sure if it's not too mcuh trouble, pop up some pics. I would be interested to see this beast.

[864x4rv]

I have been trying to download pictures of the rv, but I keep having errors. I have my pictures in the jpeg format. Any advice on how to do this.