33" tire and solar panel updates [Archive]

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Brian894x4

08-30-2006, 12:22 AM

Well, I finally got to take a longish trip after downgrading from 35s to the 33s and tested out the solar panel set up. This is what I've found so far...

First of all, the 33s definately make a difference as far as power compared to the 35s. This is with 5.29 gears. However, at 5300lbs fully loaded, with the wife and I, the truck is severely underpowered. (116hp 22RE) I can hold 50-55 mph on the steep mountain grades, but I'm in 3rd gear with the engine bouncing between 4500-4800 rpm. She's screaming for mercy, but holding together as we'd expect the venerable 22RE to do. Top speed otherwise is about 65 mph on the flats fully loaded. Maybe 70-75 with a good tailwind.

I definately need more power. Like a 3.4 V-6, but it's hard to justify the expense of an engine swap, so we'll see. I also found that I even though I aired up the Goodyear MTRs to just under max pressure (38psi) for better gas mileage, the high psi tended to make the truck wander and the ride fairly harsh. Lowering it back to about 32 seemed to do the trick and it's nice and stable.

I also relocated the solar panels from the canopy roof rack to a seperate and dedicated cab roof rack. Looks a little goofy, but it let me use my canopy roof rack again for storage. Plus I can easily remove the whole cab rack solar system (yakima rack set up) and unplug it if/when I want too. As for how it worked over the weekend, I spent most of the weekend camping with the inlaws and did very little driving or exploring (unfortunately) but as long as I turned the refrigerator off at night, the solar panels kept the battery alive. Not necessarily fully charged, but I had cold food and drinks all weekend, starting and running truck a grand total of maybe 30 minutes.

Were the solar panels worth the hassle? Hard to say. They have some value as an emergency back up, they do keep the batteries topped off in good weather, during the day, and they can power a low amp draw accessory for most the day, but in the end, it's probably a lot of money and hassle, for not a lot of gain, at least with the two 15 watt panels I'm using.

At some point I may go with a 3rd battery (used to have three before) and this, combined with the solar panels should provide more than enough juice to run everything I want with the truck turned off. 1 starter battery and 2 deep cycles to run the accessories.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone make a really compact gas powered emergency generator about the size and weight of a battery or there abouts?

Scott Brady

08-30-2006, 12:29 AM

Have you performed any power modifications to the engine? Like exhaust and header?

Good feedback on the solar too. I am in a similar situation as you, trying to address electrical power needs.

Grim Reaper

08-30-2006, 01:15 AM

Brian894x4

08-30-2006, 01:22 AM

Have you performed any power modifications to the engine? Like exhaust and header?

Good feedback on the solar too. I am in a similar situation as you, trying to address electrical power needs.

Not really. The engine is stock with about 215K miles, but good compression. I do have an LC Engineering header with a custom exhaust that helps a tiny bit.

The lack of power is not the end of the world, but it would be more enjoyable to drive on long trips and the highway with about at least 50 more ponies. I've been kicking around the idea of swapping in a Turbo 22RTE, if I can find one, since it would involve the least hassle to swap, but I have local DEQ rules to be concerned about too, so if a 22RTE pumps out more emissions than a stock 22RE, I may not be able to pass emissions standards.

I know that the 22REs can be "built" for more power, but I would like to keep whatever engine I end up with as stock as possible for reliability.

Off road and at low speed is not an issue, but on the highway, I can't even dream of attempting to pass anyone and the slowlane is my friend on the mountain passes, when I'm fully loaded.

Grim Reaper

08-30-2006, 01:27 AM

Brian894x4

08-30-2006, 01:44 AM

About the smallest thing out there worth a darew is the Honda EU1000. its 26lb Set up to charge batteries and its about the quietest generator on the market. It only makes 1000 watts 110v.

Personally I would go ahead and opt up to the EU2000. Its 46lb but its just big enough to run most stuff by itself including small A/C. Its also very quiet and will run for up to 15 hours on a tank of fuel.

Both are approved by the FS for Noise level.

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/gensup.asp

Yamaha also has similar offerings for possibly a little less money.

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outdoor/products/lifestylehome/home.aspx

Wow, I like both the Honda and Yamahas. I think either would be an excellent emergency back up power source. I would probably opt for the lighter model, since my use would be more for back up and emergency and otherwise light duty. I don't really have any serious power requirements. It could also do double duty to provide minimal power in the event of a home power outage.

That's definitely something to consider for the future. Both pump out about 8 amps at 12 volts which should be enough to charge up a completely dead starter battery enough for a couple cranks after probably an hour. Verses at least an entire day with my solar panels, if I was lucky. Also 8amps is just about enough power to run a truck in the event the alternator goes out. I used to have dual alternators for that contingency, but had to get rid of one when I installed AC.

If I were to do it over again and if money were not a major factor, I think two auxiliary batteries in parallel, independent of the starter battery, should provide enough reserve power to power things all day long with the truck off, as long as the truck was driven at least once a day. The generator could provide power at camp during the evening and night hours and act as a back up emergency power. I think I like it.

They're both pretty spendy though, but I wonder if I could find a used one somewhere.....I think I'll have to keep my eye out.

Brian894x4

08-30-2006, 01:51 AM

Do you think some of your power issue might be wind drag?
My 4Runner with the same engine but on 28(ish 235x75x15) and 4.10's will cruise 70mph without much problem. Granted I am 800 or so feet above sea level and the tallest thing around me is 4k but it does just fine.

Reason I bring that up is I recall 4rnrRick on Pirate had a similar complaint with an Exo cage. He ended up removing the Exo and swears it made a HUGE difference in performance and economy.

Definately wind drag is part of the issue with my lift, front bumper, winch and roofrack. But not as bad as an exo-cage, which really disruptes the airflow. I think my biggest issue is just weight (5300lbs verses around 3200lb curb) combined with a relatively low output, although very reliable, motor.

DaveInDenver

08-30-2006, 01:56 PM

Definately wind drag is part of the issue with my lift, front bumper, winch and roofrack. But not as bad as an exo-cage, which really disruptes the airflow. I think my biggest issue is just weight (5300lbs verses around 3200lb curb) combined with a relatively low output, although very reliable, motor.

I'm sitting at 4400 empty with the camper installed and end up a bit higher than you fully loaded (about 5450 lbs). I'm lifted around 2", but have an ARB, 6" higher than cab bump on the camper, sometimes roof rack, etc. I have the same 5.29, but I went with 33x9.50 tire pretty much specifically for the reasons you're finding. I have no problem holding 3rd gear and 50MPH at 10,000' with about 200K on a tired engine. No mods other than LCE header and exhaust (I even run a stock air filter). My practical top speed isn't limited by power, but RPMs. I don't like letting the engine sit above 3500 RPM for prolonged periods, so I tend to cruise at 3200 RPM, which is 70/75 max. This is all 5280' and higher, too. Would more power be nice? Yup, but it's also nice getting 20 or 22 MPG at the same time. It's possible to build a 22R-E that will make a legitimate 135HP without giving up a single bit of reliability. That's the way I'm heading, if I ever get the money.

Desertdude

08-30-2006, 06:06 PM

About the smallest thing out there worth a darew is the Honda EU1000. its 26lb Set up to charge batteries and its about the quietest generator on the market. It only makes 1000 watts 110v.

<added comment>

I have had the EU1000 for six years now and bring it along on most basecamp style runs - and as you described it is dead quiet and super efficient.

it has saved me on many occasions - not quite as moblie as Solar - just another tool

calamaridog

08-30-2006, 06:58 PM

I've seen complete 3.4 drivetrain (with 5spd, transfer case, and wiring harness) go for $1200-1500 with less than 50k miles. If you can do the work yourself, don't discount this as a future project.

Brian894x4

08-30-2006, 09:51 PM

I've seen complete 3.4 drivetrain (with 5spd, transfer case, and wiring harness) go for $1200-1500 with less than 50k miles. If you can do the work yourself, don't discount this as a future project.

That would be a very tempting deal :D I think for now, I'll just live with what I got, but in the end, will probably eventually have a local guy (EB) rebuild my motor with some minor upgrades or possibly explore the RTE option. I like things simple and cost effective. Also I don't want to dump too much more into this one, in case I eventually upgrade to a LC80 or possibly even a 4 door Taco.

Here's a few more pics of the set up with the new tires, etc:

Brian894x4

08-31-2006, 04:25 AM

About the smallest thing out there worth a darew is the Honda EU1000. its 26lb Set up to charge batteries and its about the quietest generator on the market. It only makes 1000 watts 110v.

Personally I would go ahead and opt up to the EU2000. Its 46lb but its just big enough to run most stuff by itself including small A/C. Its also very quiet and will run for up to 15 hours on a tank of fuel.

I've been doing some research on the generators and I've found that the Honda EU1000s are going for around $699 retail, pretty much all over my area. And everyone seems to have at least one or two in stock. Probably not for long with hunting season coming.

Seems the prices have come down as looking at old reviews shows people were paying as much as $1000 a few years ago for this thing.

Obviously, the EU2000 would be the ulimate "expedition" generator as it would provide plenty of power, although oddly enough, DC output for the 2000 is the same 12v@8amps as the 1000, negating any advantages for some uses like trying to charge your 12 volt car batteries.

I've been thinking about how useful a light, simple generation would be, like the EU1000. For example, you could run powertools to fix the truck in an emergency. You can run most any camping equipment you can think of. You can run lights. You can run the vehicle, by keeping the battery charged in the event the alternator died. You can run a small heater in the tent (I think) at night. You can run a Ham radio, assuming truck battery died. You can run any Engel or ARB refrigerator all day at camp or at night while the vehicle is turned off. And of course, if your car batteries die, you have a back up supply of power than can recharge your batteries fairly quickly.

The quiet nature of the generator would be a HUGE plus. Most of us carry spare fuel, so that can be used to power it. And it's small and light enough to store in a back corner of the cargo area of our vehicles. I can't really see any drawbacks other than $700 is a chunk of money.

Although I've never really felt the need to have many power appliences while camping, I can sure see emergency benifits, especially while out in the middle of nowhere.

I just might look into getting one.

Grim Reaper

08-31-2006, 11:53 AM

For your needs the EU1000 seems Ideal. Makes pleanty of power for your expidition travels.

I need the EU2000 at the bare minimum but my needs are different. We have a 22ft camper and the 2000 would run everythign but the A/C on it. The 3000 would run the A/C. I also plan to use it expidition travel like you and I want to use it as a winter emergency back up. The 2000 could run my Furnace blower and heat the house since I have Gas heating.

I actually just came into sposestion of a Onan 4500 gen set like you would see on an RV. At nearly 300lb its not going to fit my needs so I just put it up for sale and will buy a 2000 or 3000 with the cash I get off it.

Desertdude

08-31-2006, 01:58 PM

That is a good price IIRC I paid 840.00 back in 1999 - I have run a small PA sound system with it, lights, Dewalt compound miter saw, routers, and many other electrical items. You would not be disappointed in its size, quietness, and near maintenance free operation

bigreen505

08-31-2006, 02:25 PM

If you live near a large city, there should be photo or video equipment rental shops that will have a few Honda EU 2000 generators that they rent out so you could get some hands on experience and see if you want to buy one or not. The high end Honda generators are the only ones that put out a true sine wave and won't damage delicate electronic equipment, like the finicky European strobes that some of us love so much. Some of the photo equipment manufacturers even specify the use of Honda generators in the instruction manuals.

asteffes

08-31-2006, 05:15 PM

Desertdude

08-31-2006, 05:23 PM

easy...

http://www.mayberrys.com/honda/generator/html/sound.htm

Most generators on the market put out a very annoying rumble - the Hondas have a pleasant tone -quieter than a heard of crickets :victory:

Brian894x4

08-31-2006, 08:35 PM

I have no idea how quiet these little Hondas are, but I hope they're darn near silent because I would not want to listen to one running all day or night if I'm camping next to you. The last thing we need in the backcountry is more noise pollution. Trucks and dirtbikes with loud exhausts are bad enough.

Well, I rarely camp in a regular camp ground, but I see what you are saying. I probably wouldn't use one at night in a campground with nieghbors, even as quiet as they are. But otherwise, I've now heard them run and they are pretty quiet.

The size and weight difference between the EU1000 and EU2000 is significant, although I can see the EU2000 being the better unit for most people who want a generator for what a generator is usually used for.

A couple interesting specs on both models. The EU1000 has a max output of 1000 watts, but a rated output of 900 watts, which I guess is what it can put out for any length of time. The EU2000 has a max output of 2000, but it's rated output is significantly less, at 1600 watts.

I think for most base camp set ups and especially anything involving something like use of even a small heater or heavy power tool, the EU2000 would be the minimum. But it takes up at least a 1/3 more space and is about 1/3 heavier. Probably closer to twice as heavy when both are filled up. I still opt for the EU1000 since my use is more emergency and light duty.

For some reason both units put out the same DC power at about 8amps at a maximum 12 volts. They must be native AC units and both have the same DC converter. And apparently 12 volts is the maximum DV voltage, so if you have something that runs better on 13 or 14 volts, you'll need to run it off a battery and then charge the battery with the generator. Also, the DC powerplug is sold seperately, but is only about $10.

The other thing is that "apparently" niether unit as a DC cutoff switch to prevent overcharging, so I'm not sure how that works. If the maximum voltage is only 12 volts, maybe it can't overcharge a battery. I'm not sure. Any ideas on how to get around this? I suppose one could just run a battery charger off the AC plug and use the battery charger's cut switch if it has one.

Finally, during peak fire season, the Forest Service and BLM usually bans any gas motored equipment, except for vehicles on main forest roads, so does anyone know if these little Hondas have an exemption to that since they are apparently equipment with spark arrestors, or would the same rule that applies to chainsaws, etc, apply to them?

BajaXplorer

08-31-2006, 08:55 PM

You may want to look at Yamaha as well.
Yamaha EF1000iS is about the same, pure sine wave, comes with the DC cables, cost $680 here (http://www.yamahagenerators.com/ef1000is.htm?cart=1157057372790) with free shipping. I read somewhere that both the little Honda and Yamaha are FS approved.
I have neither of them or a preference for either (other than to save a little).
BX

Hltoppr

08-31-2006, 09:57 PM

DesertDude's Honda is sooo quiet you can have a normal conversation standing right by it and not be bothered in the slightest! (And the PA/Ipod setup kicks butt for outback get togethers!)

-H-

Brian894x4

08-31-2006, 10:02 PM

Looking the specs of both the Honda EU1000 and the Yamaha EF1000 is kind of interesting. Both put out the exact same power, have the same warranty and are pretty close to the same price. The dimensions and weight are also nearly identical. The motor is the same size, but not power.

The Yamaha makes 2.2 h.p while the Honda makes 1.8 h.p. You'd think this would translate into more efficiency with the Honda, but apparently not so.

With the Yamaha's .66 gallon tank at 225 watts, you get 12.8 hours of usage. With the Honda's .60 gallon tank at 225 watts, you get 8.3 hours of usage. That's a pretty striking difference in favor of the Yamaha unless I'm missing something.

The Yamaha is quieter @47-57Db, verses 53-59Db is you rely on manufacture’s specs, but in testing I’ve seen the Honda is quieter in eco mode.

The Yamaha also comes with a DC cable and some tools and I think a cover, which the Honda does not. But the Honda can be run parallel with another unit of the same type. Not sure if the Yamaha can.

The Yamaha seems to have the edge in the specs department, but I lean towards the Honda, because I have a LOT of faith and experience in Honda engines and I can get one really easy locally.

DaveInDenver

08-31-2006, 10:25 PM

For some reason both units put out the same DC power at about 8amps at a maximum 12 volts. They must be native AC units and both have the same DC converter.

A generator is nothing more than an engine driving an alternator, not really unlike the one in our trucks. A traditional generator has a perfect sine output naturally, the frequency of which is controlled by the speed of the rotation. The problem with this type of generator is that they must always spin the alternator at the right speed to make 60Hz, so they are typically loud all the time.

So, to make things quieter, the Honda and Yamaha build what's called inverter generators. They technically generate DC power and use a good power inverter. They actually use two sets of windings on the alternator. One is run straight to a full wave rectifier and that produces the DC output. The other is run into a rectifier and then into an inverter. By doing it this way, they can throttle the engine to whatever speed they want, since the engine speed no longer dictates the frequency of the output. Engine speed is only relative to load, higher loads mean higher RPMs. This is a direct analog to running an electric winch on your truck. At idle, there is insufficient current generated by the alternator, so the battery drains faster than at higher RPMs.

So my guess is that the car battery charging circuit rectifier used on the various models is probably the same, that's why the ratings are the same.

The other thing is that "apparently" niether unit as a DC cutoff switch to prevent overcharging, so I'm not sure how that works. If the maximum voltage is only 12 volts, maybe it can't overcharge a battery. I'm not sure. Any ideas on how to get around this? I suppose one could just run a battery charger off the AC plug and use the battery charger's cut switch if it has one.

A battery will self regulate as long as the voltage is held constant. As a battery charges, it's internal resistance increases as it approaches full charge. With a constant voltage, the current goes down as resistance goes up. You don't need a overcharge protector as long as the voltage is regulated correctly.