I need help in deciding which Cruiser to buy...another 80 or another 100:

[ShottsCruisers]

OK, I've been frantically shopping for a 3rd Cruiser for 2 months now...but can't find what I want...and that might be MY fault. Here's the scoop:

I have an extremely expensive 100 (that most of you know about). It's been buffed for the last time. I've been told I better keep it from brush or the clearcoat's gonna be gone. A few plastic parts have just started to show wear. I do not want to use this vehicle any longer on difficult trails. It's not going back to Moab and never to the Rubicon. I want to use this for trips and moderate 4-wheeling.

I have an extremely inexpensive 80. It's a '93 with 169K miles. I've never liked it because it's very basic (no leather, no nothing like the typical loaded 80 you see) and the seats don't raise and I'm very uncomfortable in it. While it's an amazing 4-wheeler I always want to leave it behind unless the trails close. I'm thinking of giving this to my kids to drive (16 and 17 yrs old).

I WANT A NEW CRUISER NOW...what should I do? Here's my 2 ideas:

1. Wait forever to find a low mile 1997 80-series. Outfit it with 4+ inches lift, 35-36" tires, regear, then make some custom bumpers. Useit as my extreme wheeler.
MY CONCERN: Despite it being a luxo-model 80....will I like driving it and will I take it onto trips....or, because I prefer the 100-series so much will I still take my expensive 100 out?

2. Easily find a lower mile 2001 or newer 100-series. ARB lock it, lift it, 35-it, then get aggressive, cut the front and rear frames and fab bumpers for wheeling. Cost will be much higher.
MY CONCERN: While I know I'll love driving it will it take the place of my or a newer 80-series on the extreme trails? This new 100 will be more capable than my existing because it will be lighter and have much improved app and dep angles due to the modification design. WILL THAT BE ENOUGH on the bad stuff or will I need an 80?

I keep going back and forth. Either way, I'll not worry about messing up/scratching this 3rd Cruiser...80 or 100.
Thoughts:
Gotta be an 80. No, another 100 will be better. Ya, the 80 is what I need though. No, a down-sized 100 will do the job. Well, we still have the '93 in the family if something insane comes up? Will I take a 1997 80 up on Pritchett Canyon in Moab or will I not want to drive it that far? Will I take my new 100 there and run something like Behind the Rocks? See....I'm stuck. ADVICE AMIGOS? :bowdown:

[BajaTaco]

John, besides the luxo interior, what is it that makes you like the 100 so much more for a road trip? Does it have anything to do with the IFS? Because I am thinking you could do the 80 and you can always get some hi-quality seats and dress up the interior more. You would have the solid front axle for the hard trails you like to do.

[ShottsCruisers]

John, besides the luxo interior, what is it that makes you like the 100 so much more for a road trip? Does it have anything to do with the IFS? Because I am thinking you could do the 80 and you can always get some hi-quality seats and dress up the interior more. You would have the solid front axle for the hard trails you like to do.

100 pluses:
Huge improvement in smoothness, quietness, and overall comfort.
(IFS, V8, stronger frame, sound insulation)
The difference is so big that when we return home from a wheeling trip in the 80, then get into the 100 to go to dinner, we immediately respond with ahhhh, thank god we're back in the 100. The 80's also a dog. Even a supercharged 80 gets hammered by a stock 100 and with bigger tires (mis-geared).

I've driven a late-model loaded 80 and it drives/rides much closer to the 100 than my '93. The question is "will it be good enough?" I'd think so though like my story explains I might be better off in another 100. ???

I wouldn't upgrade my '93 with seats and the like. It's too old and it'll make a great kid-mobile.

[pangaea]

Here's an idea... Why not find yourself a Lexus LX450... That may actually be the best of both worlds - all the capability of an 80 series, with a nicer, more comfortable interior...

Plus there's a really good chance that vehicle has never seen dirt before, so you don't have to worry about a truck that's been put through the wringer...

[dmc]

john,

i've seen your stuff all over mud for a long time so I would think you'd be better off answering the 80 vs 100 debate than most of us.

The prices of both have dropped considerably in recent months so you'll be better off than most of us with the initial buy in. I say it depends on how patient you are. A 100 series will be much easier to find than a low mile 1997 80. But I think if you want to do Pritchett and Rubicon you need the 80. Having spent some time in a 100 both on and off road I don't the ride in my 80 that different. yeah it's a little rougher but not enough to sacrifice the solid axle. if you want hardcore the 100 will always be lacking just a little. the cost to build a solid 80 is pretty insignifcant and it's amazing where they go.

something you don't mention is size. I'm only 5'7" so the 80 is fine for me. If I was taller and wider I'd say that an 80 could be very uncomfortable for extended periods.
dmc

[ShottsCruisers]

Here's an idea... Why not find yourself a Lexus LX450... That may actually be the best of both worlds - all the capability of an 80 series, with a nicer, more comfortable interior...

Plus there's a really good chance that vehicle has never seen dirt before, so you don't have to worry about a truck that's been put through the wringer...

Oh yes. I'm looking. I'd prefer the LX over the LC.

[ShottsCruisers]

But I think if you want to do Pritchett and Rubicon you need the 80. Having spent some time in a 100 both on and off road I don't the ride in my 80 that different. yeah it's a little rougher but not enough to sacrifice the solid axle. if you want hardcore the 100 will always be lacking just a little. the cost to build a solid 80 is pretty insignifcant and it's amazing where they go.

This is what I'm thinking too Darren. Since this 3rd Cruiser will be our extreme one, the 80 has the nod for sure. I'm just not sure about myself taking it because I'm spoiled by the 100.
I remember that ride in a loaded '96. Sure was nice. Blew away my '93.

I'm listening to all these comments very closely.

[BajaTaco]

Well John, I think you will have to make a sacrifice of some kind no matter what you end up with. (but the LX does sounds like maybe the best shot at the least sacrifice?)


You get the 100, you will sacrifice the hard-core capability of the 80 front axle.
You get the 80, you will sacrifice the comfort/power of the 100.
You get the Lexus, you will sacrifice the comfort of the IFS.
You get a 100 and put a solid axle on it, you will (likely) sacrifice the comfort of the IFS, plus have the contingencies that come with messing around with/highly modifying something.
If you have plenty of $$ and patience to sink into this, I think #4 sounds very intriguing.

[ShottsCruisers]

Well John, I think you will have to make a sacrifice of some kind no matter what you end up with. (but the LX does sounds like maybe the best shot at the least sacrifice?)


You get the 100, you will sacrifice the hard-core capability of the 80 front axle.
You get the 80, you will sacrifice the comfort/power of the 100.
You get the Lexus, you will sacrifice the comfort of the IFS.
You get a 100 and put a solid axle on it, you will (likely) sacrifice the comfort of the IFS, plus have the contingencies that come with messing around with/highly modifying something.
If you have plenty of $$ and patience to sink into this, I think #4 sounds very intriguing.

Ok, thinking now......
#4 is out. Solid axle a 100 still doesn't match solid axle 80...100's bigger and 80's still better.
#'s 1-3....that's the struggle

[BajaTaco]

Ok, thinking now......
#4 is out. Solid axle a 100 still doesn't match solid axle 80...100's bigger and 80's still better.

Are you sure? Yea, it's bigger, but you get the V8 you want.

Allrighty the, here you go. A '97 LX (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Lexus-LX-LX-450-1997-LX450-56-000-miles-and-Beautiful-Condition_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ13473QQitemZ4 583062637QQrdZ1) with 56K miles on it. You can drive it home from Texas and break out the sawzall. But you will need to verify if it has the lockers, and you will likely miss having the V8.

[ShottsCruisers]

Are you sure? Yea, it's bigger, but you get the V8 you want.

Allrighty the, here you go. A '97 LX (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Lexus-LX-LX-450-1997-LX450-56-000-miles-and-Beautiful-Condition_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ13473QQitemZ4 583062637QQrdZ1) with 56K miles on it. You can drive it home from Texas and break out the sawzall. But you will need to verify if it has the lockers, and you will likely miss having the V8.

GOOD EYE! THAT'S A NEW ONE SINCE I LOOKED LAST NIGHT. I appears though that the locker switch is missing. I emailed him to make sure. Gotta have lockers! Silver color = good for off-roading. :beer:

[MaddBaggins]

John, get the 80/LX450. You know deep down you want the solid axle. I think your 93 is awesome, but I'm not as old as you and my arthritis hasn't kicked in yet :hehe: But really I find the 80 to be a pretty smooth ride, but I haven't gone for a ride in a 100.

[ShottsCruisers]

John, get the 80/LX450. You know deep down you want the solid axle. I think your 93 is awesome, but I'm not as old as you and my arthritis hasn't kicked in yet :hehe: But really I find the 80 to be a pretty smooth ride, but I haven't gone for a ride in a 100.

Well, I think if a non-rusted 97 came my way with lockers, lighter colored paint and had low miles I'd be so frickin' happy I'd snag it ASAP no matter the cost. I think I'm worn out from looking that I'm questioning my choice. Then, I see sweet 100's at sweet prices and the mind wanders.

This is why I thought I'd ask the ones who wheel with me.

Another plus to an 80/LX450 is that I can pay cash for it AND load it up.
If I get a 100 I have to save for mods.
:exclaim:

[MaddBaggins]

Well, my opinion, you already have an awesome 100, so keep looking for the 80. When you find the right one then you can mod the crap outta it and I bet you will be as happy as a clam. :luxhello:

[Life_in_4Lo]

Shotts, you are obsessed with Amando. Let it go man, lol.

Here is some research for you
http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=56640
http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=63527
http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=40872
http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=31021

[ShottsCruisers]

Shotts, you are obsessed with Amando. Let it go man, lol.

Here is some research for you
http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=56640
http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=63527
http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=40872
http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=31021

You're Amando, right?

[Bluto]

Schottz, Amando's MUD handle is I4C4LO. Not sure if Life in 4Lo is the same person.
Get the late model 80 with lockers Schottz. Its nice to know you have SFA and factory lockers when youre wheeling and driving it. Not a lot of rigs can say that.
But, its your money.

[Scott Brady]

John,

1. I love you man... don't scroll down if you don't want to know what is the absolute best plan for YOU.


















NOTE: I AM NOT SHOUTING, IT IS JUST FOR EMPHASIS :shakin:

2. JOHN, YOU MUST USE THE 2001 AS YOUR PRIMARY TRAIL VEHICLE. THE THING IS AWESOME, AND YOU ARE JUST USING A FRACTION OF IT'S CAPABILITIES. IT HAS WELL OVER 100,000 MILES, WHICH MEANS IT IS NOT REALLY WORTH THAT MUCH ANYMORE. IT IS A VERY USED AND HEAVILY MODIFIED, GAS GUZZLING SUV.

IT HAS ALL OF THE TRAIL GEAR YOU NEED. FIND A WAY TO FIT 37'S UNDER IT AND JUST WHEEL THE THING. IT IS THE ONLY RIG YOU LOVE DRIVING. YOUR CURRENT PLAN MEANS THE THING WILL JUST DRIVE BACK AND FORTH FROM WORK, AND THE OCCASSIONAL TRAIL RIDE. WHAT A TOTAL WASTE IMO.

IF YOU BUY ANOTHER 100 OR A 97, YOU WILL SINK A TON OF CASH INTO IT, AND STILL PARK IT.

YOU NEED TO BUY A FUN DAILY DRIVER, MAYBE A NEW MIATA MX5 OR THE NEW FJ-CRUISER. SOMETHING THAT GETS DECENT GAS MILEAGE AND IS A BLAST TO CRUISER TO WORK IN.

THERE IS NO TRAIL THAT YOU GO ON THAT THE 100 CANT DO, PERIOD. IT CAN RUN THE RUBICON AND NEARLY ALL OF THE TRAILS IN MOAB.

IF YOU RELEGATE THAT SWEET 100 TO MALL DUTY AT 100K MILES, I AM GOING TO HAVE TO DRIVE DOWN TO TUCSON AND RESCUE IT FROM IT'S OWNER... :cool:

JOHN, NOW REPEAT AFTER ME...

"I LOVE MY 100, AND I SHOULD USE IT FOR WHAT I BUILT IT FOR, NOT LET THE MILES RACK UP GOING BACK AND FORTH TO WORK"

"SPENDING A BUNCH OF MONEY ON ANOTHER VEHICLE WILL NOT IMPROVE THE SITUATION, AND I WILL STILL THINK LONGINGLY OF THE 100, SITTING IN THE GARAGE WHILE OUT ON THE TRAIL"

:shakin: :shakin: :shakin:

[BajaTaco]

LOL!! Scott, I came very close to typing something very similar on the 1st page of this thread. HOWEVER, I was being a nice guy and listening to what John said was important to him, and biting my lip in respect of that :p He said he didn't want to thrash the 100 (which is what he will do if he continues to take it "where no 100 has gone before"), and he also said he wants to chop the frame and make a serious wheeler out of whatever he ends up with. Now, he has already done that with his current 80, so I don't see much sense in him doing it to another 80 just for the leather seats. Maybe the LX has more sound insulation and a stronger engine though... Regardless, he sounds like he doesn't want to thrash on the 100, which is exactly what he will do if he keeps running it on the tough stuff.

If I were him, I would do exactly what you said. I would chop that 100 up and wheel it 'till the clear coat came off and enjoy every plush-leather-ensconced, sound-deadened, cruise-controlled, heated-tushy moment of it. I might even use the on-board nav to locate Starbucks on the way to the trailhead :jump: (ok, inside joke - sorry John :wavey: )

BUT I AM NOT JOHN SHOTTS AND NEITHER ARE YOU! :shakin:

I can't wait to see how this ends up...

[Scott Brady]

Yeah, I know...

I think it is that I empathize with John (and have known him for a long time). I see the shear pleasure he gets from driving that 100, and taking it on challenging trails. When he drives the 80 he has a good time too, but some of the passion is gone.

I just see it like buying a WRX STI and putting 30k of racing gear in it, and then taking it on Sunday drives and back and forth from work. John's truck is totally unique, but not for long... 100's are getting mod'ed on a daily basis...

[Life_in_4Lo]

You're Amando, right?
No, but I'll tell him you're thinking of him! hahaha

Just wheel what you got John. Doesn't your wife deserve a big *** diamond ring or something? Spend the loot on her dood, believe me she deserves it!
;) :p

[Scott Brady]

Doesn't your wife deserve a big *** diamond ring or something? Spend the loot on her dood, believe me she deserves it!


You know what... that is a really good idea. You should ask Becky what kind of car she wants, and buy that for her (really spoil her). Whatever that is, and without your influence. I bet there is something she would really like to drive (and that doesnt have a snorkel). THEN, you can take the Tacoma, which would be a perfect DD for you.

You have one of the sweetest wives on earth; suprise her for Christmas with a little Audi TT or something. ;)

[ShottsCruisers]

Good gosh. What did I come back to? :(

OK, I'll respond to the easy things first:

1. You-all can talk to Becky. She's already spoiled. We were gone last night to the Eagles concert in Phx. Her favorite group. I spent $300 on seats on the floor, up front. (Me, I'm OK with their DVD's) Becky longs for nothing...trust me. Vehicle-wise...she got her wish....a Taco. She luvs it though doesn't want a snorkel on it. Funny that got brought up. :victory:

2. IF I DO BUY A THIRD CRUISER...I'm leaning the way of an 80/LX because it gives be a different vehicle suited for different things. Since the kids need a vehicle and our 80 is aged, it makes sense to let them wear it out. Plus, they'll be safe in it while learning.

3. Scott, Scott, Scott (and Baja, Baja, Baja): I feared your response(s). You know me well when on those trails. Your analysis of my preference of the 100 and it's capabilites I completely agree with. I do know that IF I could afford only one trail rig then the 100 would have been trashed by now because I'd take it everywhere and enjoy every minute with it. Such was the case when it was the only 4-wheeler in our driveway. It took horrible abuse those first 2 years while I was seeking mods.

HERE'S THE PROBLEM:
*I need another vehicle because of the kids.
**Do I spend $5K on some car/truck or do I give them my 80 and replace it?

****Since I CAN afford to buy another Cruiser to replace my current 80 that I give to the kids, I don't think I can justify trashing my current 100 on the trails. Buy something cheaper and abuse it (like I've been doing to my 80) is another option.

So, that's what I'll have to decide. Scott's idea also carries another advantage. If I simply use my 100 and don't replace the 80 with another $20K 80 or 100 NOW, then that's $20K more I have in the bank when I trash my current 100. ALL comments appreciated. I''m thinking! (Scary)

[BajaTaco]

John, I think your last comments are indicating that you may be considering what Scott and I mentioned... and that could be good. I understand that you need a vehicle for the kids (damn, what LUCKY KIDS!!!!) and so no issues there. If you don't mind giving them your current 80, that will be a really fun rig for them (but they might go broke trying to fuel it).

Sooooo... if you like the 100 so much, I say go ahead and just drive the wee-wee out of it. Take it to the Rubicon, take it to Moab (again), take it to DeSoto, Charaleou Gap, and Hackberry too ;) . You will have to accept it's limitations with the IFS and the approach/departure angles (as compared to your 80), but like I said - you will need to give a little on something. You can take the 20K and invest it into a fund that will be there when you finally wear out the 100. By then I bet there will be (damn, I sure hope there is) some awesome new Toyota fuel efficient diesel 4wd with luxo interior and locked up from the factory available for the US market (ok, so maybe we will have to move to another country - but I might go with you :D ).

If you MUST do the hardcore rock crawler thing - just get a buggy with a trailer (you can get a used one for 20K no doubt). Otherwise, that 100 will likely take you through more than you really care to tackle.

[ShottsCruisers]

John, I think your last comments are indicating that you may be considering what Scott and I mentioned... and that could be good. I understand that you need a vehicle for the kids (damn, what LUCKY KIDS!!!!) and so no issues there. If you don't mind giving them your current 80, that will be a really fun rig for them (but they might go broke trying to fuel it).

Sooooo... if you like the 100 so much, I say go ahead and just drive the wee-wee out of it. Take it to the Rubicon, take it to Moab (again), take it to DeSoto, Charaleou Gap, and Hackberry too ;) . You will have to accept it's limitations with the IFS and the approach/departure angles (as compared to your 80), but like I said - you will need to give a little on something. You can take the 20K and invest it into a fund that will be there when you finally wear out the 100. By then I bet there will be (damn, I sure hope there is) some awesome new Toyota fuel efficient diesel 4wd with luxo interior and locked up from the factory available for the US market (ok, so maybe we will have to move to another country - but I might go with you :D ).

If you MUST do the hardcore rock crawler thing - just get a buggy with a trailer (you can get a used one for 20K no doubt). Otherwise, that 100 will likely take you through more than you really care to tackle.

OK Chris, I'll respond to this in the next post. Meanwhile...you know a buggy-mo-bob isn't my style. If the 80 drives me nuts compared to the 100, imagine a buggy? :jump:

[ShottsCruisers]

Sooooo... if you like the 100 so much, I say go ahead and just drive the wee-wee out of it. Take it to the Rubicon, take it to Moab (again), take it to DeSoto, Charaleou Gap, and Hackberry too ;) . You will have to accept it's limitations with the IFS and the approach/departure angles (as compared to your 80), but like I said - you will need to give a little on something. You can take the 20K and invest it into a fund that will be there when you finally wear out the 100. By then I bet there will be (damn, I sure hope there is) some awesome new Toyota fuel efficient diesel 4wd with luxo interior and locked up from the factory available for the US market (ok, so maybe we will have to move to another country - but I might go with you :D ).


OK, this has been eliminated despite some very valid input by you and Scott. :beer:

My family ix-neyed this last night. They're more objective than me and brought up some valid points too:
1. I entertain clients in the 100. Having it looking like poop would be a negative. In sales, driving an expensive and fancy vehicle can attract more customers. They see that someone is "succesful" and figure they should opt with that vendor because they're obviously doing well. I'm not bragging, I'm just stating a little bit of Sales 401 techniques.
2. They don't think I'll drive a car if I buy one for everyday use because the 100 sits there calling me. A Vette or Rx8 or WRX STI are out because Becky knows I'll kill myself in one.
3. They don't think I'll actually opt for the extreme line on a trail for fear of wreckage.

So, looks like a 3rd Cruiser will be purchased. I'll give it a little time then outline pros and cons on the two trail types and we'll see what happens. :suning:

[BajaTaco]

...you know a buggy-mo-bob isn't my style.

Oh man, this is too funny. I actually woke up in bed last night for some weird reason... thinking to myself "you shouldn't have suggested a buggy to Shotts - you know he isn't into that. He is all about doing his stuff in a Land Cruiser." LOL!! I'm dead serious!

So yes, I retract that suggestion. Sorry.

I also didn't realize the issue with using the 100 for business. That sheds a whole new light on the topic. Sooo... did you find out if that LX has the lockers? :D I think that is your best bet. I don't think you should get another 100 unless you really want to spend the extra $$.

[ShottsCruisers]

Oh man, this is too funny. I actually woke up in bed last night for some weird reason... thinking to myself "you shouldn't have suggested a buggy to Shotts - you know he isn't into that. He is all about doing his stuff in a Land Cruiser." LOL!! I'm dead serious!

***Maybe if the buggy had leater seats, A/C, and a JBL sound system***

So yes, I retract that suggestion. Sorry.

I also didn't realize the issue with using the 100 for business. That sheds a whole new light on the topic. Sooo... did you find out if that LX has the lockers? :D I think that is your best bet. I don't think you should get another 100 unless you really want to spend the extra $$.

You're probably correct. I'll ponder for a day or so, then list a pro/con list.

[Scott Brady]

I still dont see it John... For about $15,000 you can buy a few year old infiniti luxury sedan and rack the miles up on that (and keep the image).

I guess I just dont understand why you dont use the 100 for what is was designed (and built) for.

[ShottsCruisers]

I guess I just dont understand why you dont use the 100 for what is was designed (and built) for.

Cuz I can afford 2 built vehicles. One pretty and one ugly (but both comfy). :victory:

[Scott Brady]

Sounds good John, best of luck...

[ShottsCruisers]

We're picking up a 1997 Lexus LX450 tomorrow night in Phoenix. It's loaded and in nice shape. It has a few more miles than we wanted (113K) and it doesn't have lockers. Since we will regear this one (we didn't our other 80) I figure I'm only out the locker cost. It's also like DesertDudes in that it's black. Booo! That's OK. We'll destroy it then repaint it white.

Now....your thoughts:
$10,500
Good deal?
Poopy deal?

[BajaTaco]

I don't know about the price, but BLACK :campfire: in Arizona... ?

[ShottsCruisers]

I don't know about the price, but BLACK :campfire: in Arizona... ?

2 years though and it'll be white. :victory:

[Desertdude]

Congradulations! you are gonna love your LX450 :)

ahh.... John small correction the '97 I bought is emerald green ( not quite black but close) - I would not ever own a black vehicle again - to nasty to keep clean - the only reason I caved in from the white paint thing is the low low miles and impeccable shape of the 97 anniversary model I found. I also have no problem repainting at some point when the time is right ;)

Landcruiser Phil has a black one in AZ he is able to keep his looking fine.


We'll have to have a super white painting party in a few years :)

[ShottsCruisers]

Congradulations! you are gonna love your LX450 :)

ahh.... John small correction the '97 I bought is emerald green ( not quite black but close) - I would not ever own a black vehicle again - to nasty to keep clean - the only reason I caved in from the white paint thing is the low low miles and impeccable shape of the 97 anniversary model I found. I also have no problem repainting at some point when the time is right ;)

Landcruiser Phil has a black one in AZ he is able to keep his looking fine.


We'll have to have a super white painting party in a few years :)

I pick it up tonight. Since it'll be my extreme rig I won't care about the looks, though I'd bet in a couple years the thing fades to white. ;)

[ShottsCruisers]

Congradulations! you are gonna love your LX450 :)

ahh.... John small correction the '97 I bought is emerald green ( not quite black but close) - I would not ever own a black vehicle again - to nasty to keep clean - the only reason I caved in from the white paint thing is the low low miles and impeccable shape of the 97 anniversary model I found. I also have no problem repainting at some point when the time is right ;)

Landcruiser Phil has a black one in AZ he is able to keep his looking fine.


We'll have to have a super white painting party in a few years :)

Ohhh, and the dark green is my FAVORITE! I'm glad I don't have that. I like it so much I might baby it. Yer a lucky man!