Aperture?

[Scott Brady]

I am toying with the idea of a Mac. for post production and graphics design work (of which, Stephanie and I do a lot).

Has anyone used Aperture? Your thoughts?

Comparison to Photoshop?

[bigreen505]

Stick with photoshop and add a copy Iview 3 to handle DAM. Aperture should be sweet software when it hits version 2, but I won't buy it yet.

Adobe Lightroom has a lot of potential as a somewhat advanced raw editing program, assuming the conversion quality improves between the beta and final software.

[jeffryscott]

Aperture has many great features - it is NOT a Photoshop replacement though. For organizing, etc ... I think Aperture would be great. I haven't bought a copy yet, but eventually will.

Adobe Lightroom is a similar product and is in beta, so you can download copies and give it a try. I've been playing with it, but don't have enough real experience to give a good opinion.

Now, for the Mac. The new machines are awesome and good values - and hey, for the things you need windows for, you can. Best of both worlds.

Jeff

[smbisig]

Aperture has many great features - it is NOT a Photoshop replacement though. For organizing, etc ... I think Aperture would be great. I haven't bought a copy yet, but eventually will.

Adobe Lightroom is a similar product and is in beta, so you can download copies and give it a try. I've been playing with it, but don't have enough real experience to give a good opinion.

Now, for the Mac. The new machines are awesome and good values - and hey, for the things you need windows for, you can. Best of both worlds.

Jeff

i second that. i have been editing videos for a couple of years now, and nothing beats a mac. my computer should have died a long time ago, but it still chuggs along even after i beat the hell out of it using final cut pro and photoshop.

[Scott Brady]

Great feedback. I guess I need to decide on an editing platform first, most likely a Mac. Unfortunately, they are big coin equiped properly.

[bigreen505]

I'm not sure what you mean by equipped properly. Buy the computer from Apple, generally one down from top of the line is the best value, they charge a huge premium for the top of the line box. Buy your RAM and hard drives from Other World Computing (www.macsales.com). The Dell 2407 and Samsung 214 are both excellent monitors that won't break the budget.

You can load up with ram, but Photoshop can only 4 GB. Make sure you have a separate dedicated scratch drive. As for storage, NAS is the way through a gigabit ethernet router. I am not a fan of RAID in any configuration and I don't recommend it.

At this point whether you are better off buying an Intel max of a G5 is a debate I'm not willing to get into. www.barefeats.com has tests and you can decide for yourself. I would not expect to see CS3 for a year and at that point the computers will be faster and cheaper.

Make sure you buy some sort of calibration system, they are available at all levels of price and performance. I would recommend a system based either on the Monacco Optix (X-rite DP94) puck or the Gretag Macbeth Eye 1 puck, with either Monacco, Gretag or ColorEyes software. I personally like software that allows you to check the accuracy of the profile. I have had several that were just plain off and had to be run again. Also get a monitor hood. You can buy a fancy one or make your own. I made mine from a piece of foamcore and black velvet.

[Desertdude]

20" iMac (http://www.apple.com/imac/)will get you started - fill it with maximum ram 500 gig HD and the Maximum video card - and you are good to go for not too much invested (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/6144001/wo/DB29arn0nCVj20G8Z1r1ilPGaHr/1.?p=0)- It will come out of the box with many cool "iApps" that can get you on your way to fun in a hurry...

if you find down the road that you really are a switcher - by then the more powerful intel desktops will be past the first version and you will want to make that leap - sell the iMac or move it down the chain for office/light work

Aperture is still a relatively new app and will need more time to mature

[Scott Brady]

This is my example of equipped properly:


Summary
Subtotal $4,497.00

Estimated Ship:
2-4 business days

Free Shipping

$4,497.00
Click "Update Details" to reflect changes to system price and shipping.

Specifications

Two 2.66GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
2GB (4 x 512MB)
500GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 256MB (single-link DVI/dual-link DVI)
Apple Cinema Display (20" flat panel)
Apple Cinema Display (20" flat panel)
Two 16x SuperDrives
Apple Keyboard and Mighty Mouse - U.S. English
Mac OS X - U.S. English

[Desertdude]

click buy and fill in your CC number :clapsmile

[Scott Brady]

20" iMac (http://www.apple.com/imac/)will get you started -

That looks pretty good, and it supports a second monitor too.

[bigreen505]

Well, computers are like trucks and I would build mine very differently. Your selection is definitely drool worthy, here is just another thought.

Standard computer from Apple: $2500 (keep the internal 250GB HD as a stratch)
Hold off on the optical drives until BluRay is out. I find DVD's to be pretty useless for photo files or back up. Hard drives are more archival, faster, cheaper per GB and easier to archive. This is where NAS comes in.
One internal Seagate 500GB ($225) or Western Digital 400 GB ($175)
Dell 2407 monitor ($740) or equivalent Samsung ($700) -- you are going to see a lot of advances in LCD displays in the next 12 month as quality goes up and cost comes down. Similar to Compact Flast cards around 2004. I find one 24" monitor is sufficient, but you may disagree. I would at least start there, unless you need to see two full size images side by side.
2 GB RAM ($500) -- this will get much cheaper soon. It is new technology and therefore expensive. Supposedly the computers are slightly fast if all slots are filled.
Wacom 6x11 Intuous tablet ($370)
Monacco Optic XR Pro ($300)
Total $4635

In my opinion, this gives you more memory, a scratch drive, a tablet, a profiler and overall a faster and more useful graphic design and photo editing workstation. If you want video editing two monitors may be better, but generally I'm fine with one 24" and I have less profile drift to worry about. Plan on adding four or five Tb of network attached storage.

On the other hand, nothing wrong with the iMac route either, but if you ever have trouble calibrating the monitor, well, good luck to you. When you are done with it, think how cool it would be in the kitchen to look up recepies or as a carputer. :sombrero:

[DaktariEd]

Scott....

First, I don't anyone to misunderstand my post.

I have been a Apple/Mac user since 1986. I am not a newbie to Macs, but I am an end-user, not a programmer. I gave that up 15 years ago. I started with an Apple IIc, then a Mac SE30, a Performa, PowerMac 7100, PowerBook 1400cs, two G4 desktops (one at home, one at work), and I still have FOUR Macs in my house: the G4 (collecting dust), a 15" PowerBook G4 aluminum (my traveling buddy), 17" Powerbook G4 Titanium (my daily driver), and my G5 Dual Processor (2.7 GHzx2, 2 GB RAM, 400 GB HD, 300 GB backup) (home...photo processing, etc.)!

The point being: in all those Macs I have had 1 key pop off, 1 superdrive failure, and 1 hinge break. NEVER a processor failure, NOTHING has ever occurred that couldn't be fixed here at home with a few self diagnostics, and a very rare disk restore. I've never encountered an issue that I couldn't fix...until now.

I encouraged a friend to get a PowerBook before they went out of production, but she got the new MacBook with Core Duo processor. It has been nothing short of a nightmare with strange unpredictable failures, screen images on the fritz, overheating and other issues. The Apple Store has run diagnostics for 2 days and say..."it all checks out ok."

I realize that you are not considering the MacBook, but I would strongly encourage you to get over to the Mac Discussion forums Mac Forums (http://discussions.apple.com/index.jspa) and read and/or post to see if the Core Duo has created similar problems in their desktops.

It saddens me to see what Apple has done. I fear they have rushed a product into production without fully debugging the new processors. I think it is a HUGE tactical error on their part and may be massively damaging to the Mac reputation. I hope I am wrong, but that's my fear...

Hopefully I will have a Mac until I die, but if these current problems are system wide I will stick with my current G5 until it rots away...

Good luck!

Ed

[Desertdude]

for the money they are real nice - desertgirl has the 17" model and it smokes

[Desertdude]

btw - a cool thing to do is find an Apple store - and spend some time messing around on the various systems - it helps to get a little feel for how they work and look

[jeffryscott]

Th iMac 20-inch is an awesome system for the money. As more and more native apps arrive, it will truly come into it's own. When you outgrow it as the photo and video needs become more, it will be a great second computer in the house.

The new towers are nothing short of an engineering holy grail ... the techs at my computer store (Simutek in Tucson) were drooling (kind of like most of us around your Tacoma) at the elegance and design.

It is too early to tell what bugs there might be in the new towerd, but with nearly all revision A products from Apple since they moved their manufacturing to subcontractors in Asi, I'd expect it to have some issues - titanium powerbooks, aluminum powerbooks, ibooks, G5 towers, eMacs, early iMacs (the new design) and now the macbook and macbook pro have all ahd issues in the first revision. ... the good side of the move to Asia is it has made Macs more price competitive.

The nice thing with the current iMac is it is about the fifth generation in the box and so far, I've read nothing bad about the intel iMacs - so I think it is a solid platform to work on.

Truthfully, I think something like the iMac is all you would need to begin. For all the photography work I do, my 1ghz G4 powerbook is usually plenty fast, and the iMac is a screamer compared to that.

These things are so much like trucks - sure you can mod it out to the extreme, but for most of us, they are still daily drivers and grocery getters and kid haulers. That doesn't mean we don't want them to do everything and go everywhere though ...

Like Ed, I've been a long time mac-head (since about 91) and I can't imagine using the other platform. I personally don't know anybody who has gone Mac regret it. I have known many who have gone the other way and have regretted it.

[Scott Brady]

Storage is not an issue for me right now, as I have nearly 2 TB (everything is backed up twice).

Maybe the iMAC is the way to go for right now.

Between the iMAC, monitors, software and my new rugged laptop there goes my F650 Dakar :(

[Desertdude]

yeah... also it is truly amazing what we get now as Mac users for less money compared to a few years ago - Apple adds value to every new hardware upgrade

[jeffryscott]

Scott, wait a week or so. Apple is hosting a "special event" Sept. 12 and rumors are the iMac line will be updated - and the possibility of a 23-inch iMac. Sweet.

[Desertdude]

btw side note - I have always upgraded my powerbooks every year - I do have a MacbookPro 2.16 GHz intel core duo - it is Apple latest top of the line - it has a few issues - DVD drive/burner needs to be replaced and the track pad clicker needs fixing - I might have a bit of bad ( Apple) memory

the point I would like to make is - all I have to do is call Apple care explain the problems and Apple will fix them -( being in Sedona they will send an RA# and shipping box to an authorized service center) - the first 11 months is on Apple after that with the Apple care ( extra $$) I can have this feature for extended amount of time - I have used Applecare a few times through the 20 years with Apple and have always had a smile on my face in the end...

My G5 quad arrived with a dead lower drive ( second drive) and out of it's slot - Apple took it back and sent a new one in a week.

Moral of the story with any new line and transition - nothing is ever perfect but Apple is #1 in CS


Try and not look at an Apple purchase as a way to save money - it is an investment (for two years) in the fine hardware and a company that truly wants to push the limits - I would also always buy Apple installed memory and pay the extra - if it is bad they will replace it

YMMV :)

[JMyerz]

Scott,

First a few words about platforms...

In the 6 years I've used macs for professional photography / design. I've only had one data loss crash. I have one monthly on the PC system I use here at the studio.

As far as costs issues, if you configure a Dell with the EXACT same details as a Mac you will find the actually cost much more. A mid level Intel Power Mac is $1000 CHEAPER than the DELL version.

Aperture is an OK program, like others said it is not a Photoshop replacement. Iview media is ok as well for a catolougue program. Both however affect the integrity of the image data, that is they alter to their specs for processing, file naming, etc. This is a big deal as who knows what information they are deeming acceptable as throwing out.

I would stick with the Adobe CS2 suite and upgrade to CS3 as soon as it hits in Feburary. Adobe has a program similar to Aperture called Lightroom, I've been beta testing it for almost a year now and its great. You get the file management, easy RAW processing, good colors and seamless integration with photoshop. If you decide to get a Intel mac you will need CS3 as CS2 will move super slow dues to the new OS.

Hope that helps.

Justin