Jayco, Starcraft, Fleetwood vs. Adventure Trailer, Kimberly Kamper, etc.

[Pete]

How many here have had experience with the "mainstream" brands of adventure trailers, such as the Starcraft R/T series, Jayco Baja series, and Fleetwood Evolution series?

Looking at those types of trailers, they seem to have more of the functionality when camping that I would like for my family, but I'm concerned that they might not hold up to serious off-roading. I hope I'm wrong here, but is there a big difference in durability, as well as off-road capability of those that I mentioned, as opposed to the Adventure Trailer, or the Kimberly Kamper?

Any first hand experience with any of these would be great. I spoke at length with a guy up near Bishop with an Adventure Trailer that spoke highly of it's off-road capabilities and durability, but it's not really as functional for my family as I would like it to be, so I'm hoping one of the other brands would serve me well for off-road terrain that would require 4WD.

[Scott Brady]

I have used / inspected them all, and the defining difference is durability and technical trail capability. After that, it is just figuring out what features you want.

And dont underestimate suspension performance. The Adventure Trailer is in another category in that regard.

There are lots of AT owners here, so I bet you will get some good feedback on that question.

Oh, and welcome to ExPo :1888fbbd:

[Brian McVickers]

Hi Pete,
I have never used any of the conventional trailers you listed but I have logged thousands of miles with boat and cargo trailers. I was originally very skeptical of taking a trailer offroad and never thought it would be practical or even safe.

Then I had the chance to use an Adventure Trailer Chaser for a weekend offroad including sand, rocks, tight shelf trails, fast access roads, hill climbs and some other fun technical terrain. I was amazed, and have added an Adventure Trailer to my short list of equipment to obtain!

(end Shameless AT plug!)

http://www.expeditionportal.com/images/albums/userpics/10006/DCP_9246.JPG

[Gear]

Another positive plug for the Adventure Trailers Chaser. I am still amazed at how well this trailer tows behind my Jeep. Here's my photo.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6d901b3127cce8b743cee3c9e00000026108EatWzFu0cO

If you have any specific questions about the Chaser I would be more than happy to give you my opinion.

[VikingVince]

Pete,

You're facing the same dilemma as those of us who would like a "mainstream" motorhome that is offroad capable and durable. Bottom line: There aren't any.
I think the amenities for your family are an important consideration here. Maybe Mario at AT would be willing to improve/upgrade the suspension and tires of a "mainstream" unit or buy a "mainstream" unit from the factory without suspension and tires (saving some $$$) and have Mario do the rest...if he'd be interested in doing that type of thing.

[perterra]

I saw one of these on the beach earlier this year. inda nice, loads of ground clearance and a tube frame. Looked like 10/50-15 tires

http://www.starcraftrv.com/starcraft_folding_campers/pano/13RT_full.html

[mountainpete]

I have taken a good look at those trailers along with the Evolution and here are my thoughts. (First, I don't own any of these trailers, but I have spent a good amount of time in, around, and under most of the mainstream trailers as my wife liked the idea):


The trailer has a solid frame - very robust in comparison to regular pop-up tent trailers.
The front cargo platforms are convienient, but really add to the tongue weight of the trailer. With the battery and propane bottles up there, you can get over 200 lbs of tongue weight quite quickly. As a result, you will find that most dealers recommend weight distribution hitches, which means no articulation with the bars on and not a whole lot more with them off.
The interiors of those trailers are very spartan in comparison to the other tent trailers. You can buy a standard tent trailer for MUCH cheaper and get WAY more features.
Ground clearance is actually pretty good. Can't say much about articulation as I don't have any first hand experience.
The closed trailer is quite high for a pop-up. It's wide too making it a challenge for most trails.
Huge dealer network for service.
Big plus: You can fit a family and play cards at the table when it rains.


So there are a lot of challenges compared to something like an Adventure Trailer or other similar brands. Adv Trailers are designed for off road use, the mainstream ones have been "adapted". They are more targeting the "dirt road" or just a bit off the beaten path camper. There is no question that a trailer that was designed to be off-road will be more durable, reliable and perform better than an adapted trailer.

So we know that you can essentially pull an Adventure Trailer through some of the toughest trails around - that has been proven over and over again. The Evolution, Baja and others are (a) heavier (b) longer (c) wider than the Adventure Trailer - all things that make it perform worse off-road. I know that if I was on a technical trail, I would want my trailer to be as light and narrow as possible. Those trailers are darn heavy! Especially the Evolution.

The remaining question is that for that remote camping spot that you like, do you need something like an Adventure trailer? Even further, do you need something more than a standard tent trailer? As long as you are not flexing it too much, you might be satisfied with a regular tent trailer and you will save a lot of money compared to an "off-road" version. If you need an Adventure Trailer, read some of the reviews on this site and research different vendors until you find the one that suits you the best.

I've been typing too much now, but I hope it helps you in your quest :mixed-smiley-030:

Pete

[DUTCH]

I have a Kimberley Kamper that I just spent a week and a half in Colorado and Utah. It is one heckuva unit. Rather than go on about it, it would be much easier to respond to specific questions and/or concerns.

Sadly, my wife will not convert to camperism, so I'd like to sell it. It's listed in the For Sale forum.

[PCRover]

If you are wanting to do any serious off roading then any of the three brands you listed would not be a good choice. Look into an Adverture trailer as it is designed for expedition use, not just traveling some mild dirt roads to a campsite as the others are.

I had some isssues with my military conversion trailer while doing a four day trek across northern Nevada. If I had been towing one of those three brands of trailers it would not have survived the first day.

[DUTCH]

If you are wanting to do any serious off roading then any of the three brands you listed would not be a good choice. Look into an Adverture trailer as it is designed for expedition use, not just traveling some mild dirt roads to a campsite as the others are.



I agree. The KimberleyKamper is only suited for mild dirt roads.

[Colorado Ron]

Dutch,

I think he was talking about Jayco, Starcraft, and Fleetwood as the three brands, not the KimberlyKamper of AT.

[jrsteffes]

I agree. The KimberleyKamper is only suited for mild dirt roads.


Those roads arent to mild!

[flywgn]

Pete,

Welcome to ExPo.

Years ago we tried a pop-up (Palomino Colt) tent trailer. The first mod that was required was changing out the pathetic little wheels/tires that came stock. I inverted the springs and went to a 14" wheel.

The trailer lasted a few trips. Finally after the second broken spring shackle and a twisted axle we gave up on it. We returned to our time-proven tent.

After a few years of sleeping on the ground we saw an article about the Komfort ATRV and ultimately purchased one of the 16 they made. We still have it and it's been to the Arctic Circle with us as well as a bunch of canyons and backcountry dirt roads throughout western North America. It's comfortable, has all the amenities (including a Motosat antenna), and is a pleasure when searching out a remote trout stream.

It is not suitable, however, for following us over serious backcountry routes. We now have added an Adventure Trailer (Horizon) to our growing fleet. This is our second safari-type trailer. The first was a Conqueror, built in South Africa and imported for a few years by Safari Trailers, LLC, in California. The Conq was our first venture into a serious backcountry 'convertible' trailer and it convinced us that this was what we wanted. Unfortunately, my wife, Diana, had a serious accident while riding her little gelding and ended up with five broken ribs, a punctured lung, and a torn Achilles tendon. Needless to say, ascending a ladder to the tent on the Conq became problematic for a while. A close friend had been hounding me to sell the Conq to him, so we did...and almost immediately regretted the decision, ergo our recent purchase of 'Harry' Horizon.

We'll keep the ATRV. It's our Base Camp and we like too many things about it to give it up. Harry, on the other hand, will give us many miles of pleasure into spots where BC just can't go.

The Kimberly is bigger than the Adventure by some measure. Neither the Kimberly nor the Adventure will offer the types of amenities to which you allude, so you may have to compromise. I suppose we all do that to a degree.

I do know that you can rent the Starcraft and Jayco, and I believe that Mario at Adventure Trailer is considering rentals as well. Perhaps that might be an avenue to follow in order to get the feel for one.

I can tell you, without reservation, that the Palomino was not...NOT...meant for anything other than smooth pavement, and even there the small wheels (10") needed constant maintenance and gave practically no clearance. There are a couple of companies--such as those mentioned above--that are producing relatively comfortable pop-ups with good clearance and adequate suspension for some off-highway travel. I don't believe, though, that these products have the suspension for miles of corrugated dirt roads or extreme articulation for stream crossings or other types of difficult terrain.

You'll enjoy the search for your trailer. Depending on where you live you might wish to catch one of the Off-Road Expos in SLC, Houston, or Pomona. See http://www.offroadexpo.com/offroadexpo/v42/index.cvn

In addition there are the Sportsmens Expos http://www.sportsexpos.com/

All of these will have various venders with trailers such as you are targeting.

Have fun, and, again, welcome to Expedition Portal.

Allen R

[Cruiser99]

Hey Pete,

I had to deal with the problem of Adventure trailer for many years. My goal was a simple and quick camp setup/tear down that would accommodate 4 people (a dog and a cat) with all the normal constraints of off highway driving – light, durable, and not least important, cheap.

Right or wrong and to make long story short, I ended up with buying a Fleetwood Neon, that to my understanding, just came out in 2006. It’s a cheep small (900lb) popup that was intended to sleep 2, without the sink and kitchen they usually come with. It probably will not stay on the market too long because most people think it’s too small.

I have modified it with 15” wheels and tires, extended the drawbar, striped the interior of all the heavy pressed board and added a bunk bed so it’ll sleep 4. I am in the process of changing the suspension to am more compliant system.

I have used it on off road trips 5 or 6 times this year and so far, it working OK.

D.

[chet]

can you eloborate on your suspension changes? I have a small older coleman with slipper springs as well and want to chang eit to something softer (smoother?)

[Cruiser99]

I am going to stay with leaf springs but with softer ones using bushings and real shackles. Also add shockes.

[Desertdude]

Another positive plug for the Adventure Trailers Chaser. I am still amazed at how well this trailer tows behind my Jeep.

This is now an understatement - after the Expedition Trophy " Sand Course" :sombrero:

[Tucson T4R]

I have a Kimberley Kamper that I just spent a week and a half in Colorado and Utah. It is one heckuva unit. Rather than go on about it, it would be much easier to respond to specific questions and/or concerns.

Sadly, my wife will not convert to camperism, so I'd like to sell it. It's listed in the For Sale forum.


Hi Dutch,

I'm new to this forum and just purchased a King Kamper Explorer. I was curious if you ever sold yours. I didn't see it in the for sale section. Do you have any other input or suggestions for new Explorer owner? :-) I pick mine up in Mesa, AZ on 1/20. Just a like kid before Christmas.

[DUTCH]

Hi Dutch,

I'm new to this forum and just purchased a King Kamper Explorer. I was curious if you ever sold yours. I didn't see it in the for sale section. Do you have any other input or suggestions for new Explorer owner? :-) I pick mine up in Mesa, AZ on 1/20. Just a like kid before Christmas.

Mine is still for sale, although the post is probably buried very deeply in the for sale forum.

I don't really have any tips, as I haven't kept up with the changes that were made to make it into the "Explorer" category. Enjoy it. It is a very unique item in the US.

[Tucson T4R]

Thanks for the quick reply Dutch. I plan to use this trailer for hunting base camps in Arizona & Colorado. We also plan to use it with our family camping in NM, CO, NV, AZ and on the beaches in Mexico.

I'll try to post back my experiences and maybe help you sell yours. :-) I am very impressed with quality and durability compared to anything I have seen manufactured in the US. Adventure trailers are outstanding but the trailer top tent and lack of other amenities for my wife moved me in the direction of these King Kampers.

I'll ley you folks know how it works out for us. :-)

Here's my tow vehicle:

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/bgarland40/Brads4Runner001.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/bgarland40/Dec%2006%20Snow%20Run/DSC02258_edited-1.jpg

[DUTCH]

They are most certainly extremely rugged. I also like being able to walk around inside.

Do they still use the Treg hitch? While that hitch is "super" once connected, it is a bit of a pain to connect - especially when trying to do so on uneven ground. It has to be lined up perfectly, or you can't insert the pin. I found a very nice mirror accessory which makes getting it lined up to connect a whole lot easier. A rear view camera would also help in this regard..

You'll also find that a set of leveling blocks will be handy under a wheel to level it from side to side. I have a set that goes together like Lego's, yet packs very compactly.

[Tucson T4R]

Yep, they still use the Treg hitch. I like your idea on the leveling blocks. Where did you find yours?

:1888fbbd:

[blupaddler]

Hi Dutch,

I'm new to this forum and just purchased a King Kamper Explorer. I was curious if you ever sold yours. I didn't see it in the for sale section. I pick mine up in Mesa, AZ on 1/20. Just a like kid before Christmas.


Congrats!!!

Where/How did you get a Kimberly in the US? I know Slee will be selling them soon. They are REALLY nice. I got look at Slee's in Pismo. :drool: :drool:

[DUTCH]

Congrats!!!

Where/How did you get a Kimberly in the US? I know Slee will be selling them soon. They are REALLY nice. I got look at Slee's in Pismo. :drool: :drool:

My 2002 KK is for sale. Let me know if you're interested. It's cherry and considerably less expensive than a new one.

gwagen@bellsouth.net

[DUTCH]

Yep, they still use the Treg hitch. I like your idea on the leveling blocks. Where did you find yours?

:1888fbbd:

Leveling blocks came from CampingWorld.com. Here's the link:

http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus/index.cfm/Outdoor-and-RV-Accessories/Featured-Products/RV-Leveling-Blocks--Set-of-10/skunum=24733:src=FPFP

You can see them in use under the left wheel in this photo:

http://www.pbase.com/flydutch/image/41540852

They're not easy to see, since there are plastic wheel chocks in front and back of the tire.

The Hitch Spotter mirror accessory can be head here:

http://www.trailer-hitch.com/

It's a god-send for getting that Treg Hitch lined up so you can insert the pin.

[blupaddler]

My 2002 KK is for sale. Let me know if you're interested. It's cherry and considerably less expensive than a new one.

gwagen@bellsouth.net


Thanks.
If you still have it in about 2-3 years (our kiddie plan). Let me know.

[Tucson T4R]

Slee Offroad is the primary US dealer now for the King Kamper (which is the US name for the imported Kimberly Kamper, same thing with US sourced parts). IN the Southwest my closest dealer is:

Arizona, New Mexico and at Present Southern California Dealer
Rob Hart
666 E Southern Ave
Mesa, Arizona
United States of America
Tel 480-892-4621
Email robhart@kingkampers.com

Here's their King Kamper US website:

http://www.kingkampers.com/buying/dealers.html


Also, Dutch, thanks for the links. I'll check it out. :26_7_2:

[Tucson T4R]

Leveling blocks came from CampingWorld.com. Here's the link:
You can see them in use under the left wheel in this photo:

http://www.pbase.com/flydutch/image/41540852

They're not easy to see, since there are plastic wheel chocks in front and back of the tire.
It's a god-send for getting that Treg Hitch lined up so you can insert the pin.


Great Pics Dutch! I'll have to get a gallery going of my adventures and post a few myself.

:1888fbbd:

[DUTCH]

Congrats!!!

Where/How did you get a Kimberly in the US? I know Slee will be selling them soon. They are REALLY nice. I got look at Slee's in Pismo. :drool: :drool:

If you want a King(Kimberley) Kamper and can find one in the USA, you had best snap it up. The KK factory in Australia has a 6 month backlog on Australian orders alone; and has decided to let the US marketing efforts rest for now.

[DUTCH]

If anyone is interested, there are a series of photos of the KK in action here:

http://www.pbase.com/flydutch/kimberleykamper

Click on the thumbs to open a larger photo. The very last/bottom thumb will open another album of shots borrowed from the factory and other websites showing it in some very hard action situations.

Enjoy!

[rusty_tlc]

.02 from a long time RV'er.

The problem I have with the Adventure type trailer is I can't see me climbing a ladder to get into bed. Or down one to get up for a late night nature call, and at my age that isn't if it's when. Plus 20 years of RV'ing have spoiled me, I dont want to freeze my cheeks off taking a whiz at three AM.

Our next rig will probably be a tent trailer. I looked at the "Off Road" trailers out there, Baja, RT etc. and decided they just werent that much better than a stock tent trailer.

The plan is to find an older or a rental return tent trailer. I will ditch the suspension and replace it with a 3/4 ton torsion axle, and probably add air bags. The frame will be boxed and gusseted. The undercarriage will be insulated and sealed. After restoring a 1957 Teardrop trailer I feel comfortable about re-building the cabinets so they will tak a lot of abuse. I'll add a rack on the top to hold whatever won't fit insied the tow rig, I also don't want to hoik crap on top of a lifted trail rig ;) . I'm thinking we will also replace the hitch with the Treg or a pintel hitch.

Basic requirments for a starting trailer are, 8' or less box, heater, fridge, two burner stove. If it didn't already have it I would install a three way fridge.

[DUTCH]

.02 from a long time RV'er.

Our next rig will probably be a tent trailer. I looked at the "Off Road" trailers out there, Baja, RT etc. and decided they just werent that much better than a stock tent trailer.

From your requirements listed, you must not have looked at a King/Kimberley Kamper. It has pretty much everything you say that you want.

[ErrinV]

I haven't posted much here for quite some time, but it looks like I may be able to help out here...finally!

About a year ago I was drooling over an Adventure Trailer (still do!) and was considering purchasing one. I was looking for a solution for a better camping experience for my wife, and also the ability to bring my bike along. Since I have a shortbed truck, I had to rule out the AT trailer as I could not carry a bike in the back AND tow. I had to keep the tailgate down for room for the bike.

While at the show checking out the AT trailers, my wife spotted the Fleetwood Evolution. I immediately shrugged it off. I didn't think it was half as cool as the AT, but the fact that it had a toilet/shower(wife requirement) and a deck for my bike, it ended up meeting our needs.

After much shopping and comparisons, it came down to floorplan and we ended up with the Evolution E3.

First let me say that I have no delusions that this trailer is anywhere near as capable as the other trailers listed. (AT's, King Campers and Campas) It is HUGE...and WIDE. Because it sits on larger 15" wheels there's no seeing over it, and it's about 6" wider then my truck.

It's max weight is 4000lbs, but due to the design, when the deck is loaded (500lb max) the tounge weight goes through the roof. I loaded it up after we got it and the tounge weight was over 800lbs. So weight distibution bars are a neccesity. However you are not supposed to travel off-road with WD bars engaged, so I think that cancels out some of the allure of these trailers. If you have a large enough truck to handle the weight without the use of WD bars then you should be ok, but it's still a huge trailer.

We've only used it twice so far, but I can say that even though it's not as cool as an AT trailer, it is pretty damn nice. It has really spoiled me. Camping in the desert with the furnace on, and having a toilet in the middle of nowhere is pretty nice.

I did end up getting this because of the wifes requirements though, and she still hasn't camped in it. For one person it's just too much work. If she doesn't try it out soon, I can see having a great excuse to trade it for an AT, Campa or FourWheel Camper. However, for taking the family out to the desert it's tough to beat. It's just so big inside.

Here's some pics.

Death Valley

http://www.errinv.smugmug.com/photos/126131406-M.jpg

Me and my trailer.

http://www.errinv.smugmug.com/photos/126212742-M.jpg

Out at Wagon Wheel...near Ridgecrest.

http://errinv.smugmug.com/photos/116338400-M.jpg

http://errinv.smugmug.com/photos/120396670-M.jpg

KTM on deck

http://errinv.smugmug.com/photos/114283121-M.jpg

Interior Pics

http://errinv.smugmug.com/photos/111285213-M.jpg

http://errinv.smugmug.com/photos/111285090-M.jpg


Hopefully this was helpful. Sorry for the long post.

Errin

[Bergger]

That is awesome and congratulations! I went a similar route back in 2001 with a fleetwood popup camper. Unfortunately they did not have the evolution at that time. I think those types of campers are great. Yes while they can not go where an AT can go they are extremely comfortable and most importantly they keep the wife happy. We like to set ours up in a base camp then 4wheel and hike from it. It is nice to come home at the end of the day to something that nice. And if we intend to go someplace the camper can't make it, well, the camper just stays home and we use the tent cot. Once again, congrats on your purchase. I'm jealous now since I've been eyeballing the E1 or E2 for a while now. Just curious, did you get a chance to look at and compare the fleetwood to the jayco baja?

[ErrinV]

Just curious, did you get a chance to look at and compare the fleetwood to the jayco baja?


I think the best way to use these is, as you said, a basecamp. We camped at Furnace Creek in Death Valley and then rode our bikes all over the park. Like you said, it's really nice to come back to a shower and bed.

As for the comparing, yes I did. I looked at the Fleetwoods, Jayco Baja and Starcraft RT series. The ones I liked the best were the Starcraft RT14 (If I remember correctly, it's the non-slideout one) and the Jayco Baja. We went to a RV show and right away the wife didn't like the Baja. Felt it was too small. However this was right after she walked through the 22ft travel trailer that her parents where looking at, so it wasn't exactly fair. There were no Starcrafts at the show so we then looked at the Fleetwoods. We started in the E2 and it was ok, but then when she got into the E3 she really liked that one.

The slideout in the E3 (I think the Starcraft RT13 also has one) is what makes the difference. It's a little more work to set up, not much, maybe 20 seconds, but it makes a huge difference in liveable space. We were going in and out of the trailers with 4 adults, and you could really feel the roominess (sp?) with the slideout.

There are a couple of drawbacks to the E3 though.

1. When folded for travel, the slideout takes up the floor space inside, so there is not much room to store supplies or gear. This not an issue with a non-slideout so you have lots of room for a cooler, firewood, chairs etc. This also means that you cannot carry much gear behind the axle, which adds weight to the tounge.

2. The fold over galley blocks access to the fridge, so in order to fill the fridge you must raise the roof, pull out the bunks and lift the galley up. We just take that into account and fill the fridge at the campsite and empty it before we leave. Not a big deal, just have to plan for it.

3. The roof overlaps the access door, so in order to get inside, you must raise the roof a couple of cranks. Again, not bad, just more work then neccessary I think.


The thing I liked about the Baja is that the cranks to raise the roof and lower the stabilizers store in the access door, so they are always handy, an there is less of a chance of them being left behind. Also the access door can be opened without raising the roof. Which is great for loading up the night before, or at the grocery store and then when you get home.

Overall, they are all so close that it really just came down to floorplan. The Starcrafts cost a little bit more, but they are optioned out already, while the Baja was the cheapest, but you may have to tack on some options. I think they all have pros and cons and it's just a matter of what you can deal with.

One thing I like about the Fleetwood, and I know this is lame, is that it's not just plain RV white. Both the Starcraft and Jayco are just boring old white with decals, but the Fleetwood comes in either grey or yellow. Like I said it's lame, but I feel like the Fleetwood is really aimed at me and not my grandparents.

Let me know if you have any other questions. Also check out RV.net (http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/listings/forum/25.cfm) for lots of info. I did alot of research there before I bought.

Errin

[Tucson T4R]

I final got out and took some pictures of my new King Kamper. We went camping for 5 days up in Richmond Basin, North of Globe Arizona. The trailer was great and easliy went everywhere I wanted to pull it.

We got dumped on the last night so the roads were really muddy at the top. I don't have any pictures of that because I was too puckered up driving down the slick muddy hills with a 2500 LB trailer behind me. :yikes: Once we got down below the slick mud, the rest of the trip was just rocky roads and sand washes.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/bgarland40/07%20Richmond%20Basin/RichmondBasin07119.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/bgarland40/07%20Richmond%20Basin/RichmondBasin07116.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/bgarland40/07%20Richmond%20Basin/RichmondBasin07068.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/bgarland40/07%20Richmond%20Basin/RichmondBasin07051.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/bgarland40/07%20Richmond%20Basin/RichmondBasin07049.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/bgarland40/07%20Richmond%20Basin/RichmondBasin07011.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/bgarland40/07%20Richmond%20Basin/RichmondBasin07005.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/bgarland40/07%20Richmond%20Basin/RichmondBasin07117.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/bgarland40/07%20Richmond%20Basin/RichmondBasin07120.jpg

[mountainpete]

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/bgarland40/07%20Richmond%20Basin/RichmondBasin07068.jpg



WOW! That is too cool! It's like it's own city! :victory:

[Tucson T4R]

Yep, we were out with about 9 of my friends and they were all refering to it as "The Castle". :victory: Definitly had all the comforts of home, including a desiel heater. :campfire:

[Bergger]

Cool looking camper. Does it really weigh 2500lbs? How long does it take to set all that up? Any issues with critters getting into your kitchen area? I imagine you need to secure everything at night since there is no floor on the tent. I've looked at those but the price is keeping me away. Have also considered a Kamparoo as a lite weight camper but it's going to be a hard sell to the wife. She really likes the comfort of our coleman popup.

[Scott Brady]

Brad,

Awesome pictures. Thanks for the comments and photos.

We will need to get you to the Expedition Trophy :)

[Tucson T4R]

Cool looking camper. Does it really weigh 2500lbs? How long does it take to set all that up? Any issues with critters getting into your kitchen area? I imagine you need to secure everything at night since there is no floor on the tent. I've looked at those but the price is keeping me away. Have also considered a Kamparoo as a lite weight camper but it's going to be a hard sell to the wife. She really likes the comfort of our coleman popup.

It's about 2000 Lbs empty so I'm guessing at the 2500 lbs loaded with water, fuel, and equipment.The tongue wieght is only about 220 Lbs mpty and probably about 400 the way I had it loaded.

Those Ausies don't like critters getting in anything either. The entire canvas walls all the way around has a skirt that hangs down and can be buried with sand or dirt to seal the bottom. All the doors have velcro closures to seal out any unwanted guests. I was impressed with the detailed work they put into the design.

Plus, if you want to, the entire kitchen can be totaly closed up and locked down in about 5 mins.

It towed easily, even up 4X4 roads that my friends didn't like driving without a trailer. :clapsmile

My wife also likes the comforts so I added a Zoide hot water on demand shower and a porta pottie. Now she wants to get back out again. :camping:

[Tucson T4R]

How long does it take to set all that up?

I look at the set up as three steps that you can do just the first one for quick trips or all three for longer stays or bad weather.

The first is just to pick a spot and fold out the main trailer camper. That only takes about 5 mins to have it fully set up and ready to sleep in. In this case your kitchen would be outside.

Seting up just the porch took about 20 mins and was pretty easy.

Since it was our first time, the walls and the complete skirting around the trailer took about an hour. I think we could do it in about half that time now that we know the tricks. The design and craftmenship is excellent. Everything went together perfectly and would handle some pretty severe weather before having any challenges.

[kcowyo]

I final got out and took some pictures of my new King Kamper.

That King Kamper is awesome! :jumping: :clapsmile

[Pete]

Hey Tucson, a few questions, as I am seriously considering the KK. I had heard that there were long wait times to get one. How long was your wait time after ordering it?

How well does the diesel heater work? Did you test it in freezing conditions? Can you smell the diesel fuel at all when it is working?

Do you have any shots of the sleeping area(s)?

Thanks in advance,
Pete

[Tucson T4R]

Hey Tucson, a few questions, as I am seriously considering the KK. I had heard that there were long wait times to get one. How long was your wait time after ordering it?

How well does the diesel heater work? Did you test it in freezing conditions? Can you smell the diesel fuel at all when it is working?

Do you have any shots of the sleeping area(s)?

Thanks in advance,
Pete


I actually bought mine from the Mesa dealer as a personal purchase of his used Kamper. It was a 2006 model he bought last Feb and had only used it a few times. So there was no wait time for me. Slee Offroad is selling theirs now too.

Christo Slee
www.sleeoffroad.com
1-888-4X4-SLEE


I had heard of the delay rumor but when I checked with him, he had not heard of any problems ordering new models. I assume it would take 60-90 days but that is a total guess on my part.


The sleeping area is a full size queen mattress you climb up into just a few feet above the folded out floor. Mine also has the extra netted in room at the end of the Annex tent area. It's big enough for a full size cot with room to stand next to it or maybe a small table to be bug free if the rest of the porch was open. It goes up anytime you install the end canvas wall on that end so you could use it by itself with the rest of the porch open, or if you have all the walls up for a fully enclosed annex. Here's a shot from inside looking back at the extra netted room. Note: it was the first time and we hung it too close to the ceiling. I now know to hang it from the velcro straps so that it would be even across the top and reach floor all the way across.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/bgarland40/07%20Richmond%20Basin/RichmondBasin07051.jpg

I don't have any shots of mine but you can get the idea at this website. I'll get a few internal shots the next time I open it up.

http://www.kingkampers.com/buying/gallery.html

The diesel heater works great. It is a little underpowered if you are trying to heat the entire 200 sq ft annex tent area. I tried that and it ran constantly all night. It did keep the temp up to about 54 degrees when it was in the low 30's outside but I would avoid it. It does have a stove jack in the ceiling of the porch so you could use a wood burning stove if you needed serious heat out there. If you are just heating the primary fold out tent and sleeping area it kicks butt. It puts out heat at about 130 degrees and will easily keep the sleeping area as warm as you like even if it was in the 20s outside. It's managed by a thermostat you can reach from under the covers so you can crank it up before getting up in the morning if you want. :coffeedrink:

I had no diesel fuel smell because I used a sealed Scepter fuel container as my supply. The heater exhaust is routed outside the tent area in the back. You can feel the heat being exhausted but you don't see any perceptable smoke.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/bgarland40/07%20Richmond%20Basin/RichmondBasin07050.jpg

I am very happy with it and highly recommend one. The design and quality for this size adventure trailer is unmatched in the US. It's not a rock crawling trailer for the Rubicon but it will handle just about any other back road and beach condition you can run across.

My only other tip is to only get the "expanded tent" configuration. That is a minor design change that tilts the back wall out instead of in but that minor change makes a major difference in the usable space inside. Mine has room now for a small table and two chairs on the folded out inside floor area.

Here's few shots of it in my driveway. You can see the shape of the extended tent and little bit through the netting of the table and chairs inside.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/bgarland40/07%20Richmond%20Basin/DSC02423.jpg


http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/bgarland40/07%20Richmond%20Basin/DSC02421.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/bgarland40/07%20Richmond%20Basin/DSC02422.jpg

I hope that helped. Let out a yell if you have any other questions.:1888fbbd:

PS. I noticed after posting that I had a table with benches inside when I took these pictues. I now use a small roll up table and two folding chairs instead of the table with bench seats.

[Tucson T4R]

Here are couple of shots from our camping trip last weekend in the Chiricahua mountains in SE AZ. Shows how you can just use it flipped open without setting up the porch when the weather is nice.


http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/bgarland40/07%20Chiricahua%20Mtns/Chiricahua2007017.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/bgarland40/07%20Chiricahua%20Mtns/Chiricahua2007075.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/bgarland40/07%20Chiricahua%20Mtns/Chiricahua2007011.jpg

[Tucson T4R]

Hey Tucson, a few questions, as I am seriously considering the KK. I had heard that there were long wait times to get one. How long was your wait time after ordering it?

Do you have any shots of the sleeping area(s)?

Thanks in advance,
Pete

Pete, I finaly got around to getting you some inside shots of the sleeping area. Here ya be......

Here's the queen size bed (heater fan is in the small shoe box looking thing on the lower right under the bed):

Notice the halogen reading lights above each pillow. :coffee:

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/bgarland40/07%20Richmond%20Basin/DSC02711_edited-1.jpg


Here's a shot of the fold down floor area that you walk into. You can see there is plenty of room for a small table and chair or a cot if someone else wanted to sleep inside the main fold out tent:

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/bgarland40/07%20Richmond%20Basin/DSC02714_edited-1.jpg

PS. I just measured the floor area. It's 7' X 5.5' so kids could sleep across the end but an adult would have to sleep lengthwise by the back door.

[Pete]

Pete, I finaly got around to getting you some inside shots of the sleeping area. Here ya be......

Here's the queen size bed (heater fan is in the small shoe box looking thing on the lower right under the bed):

Notice the halogen reading lights above each pillow. :coffee:

Here's a shot of the fold down floor area that you walk into. You can see there is plenty of room for a small table and chair or a cot if someone else wanted to sleep inside the main fold out tent:

PS. I just measured the floor area. It's 7' X 5.5' so kids could sleep across the end but an adult would have to sleep lengthwise by the back door.

Very cool man, thanks. Looks like a great setup. I want mine so bad, I can taste it.

[jerdog53]

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/bgarland40/07%20Richmond%20Basin/RichmondBasin07116.jpg




You know I saw one of these yesterday on the freeway being pulled by a Black Toyota Tacoma with AZ plates. I had enough time to move around three sides and get a real good look at it at freeway speeds. Had the top of my LJ so the view was unodstructed and I must admit they are smaller than I thought but every bit as long as the tow truck. I am finding my self thinking I need to rethink this option as Track Trailer (http://www.tracktrailer.com/) won't ever import their rig.

[Tucson T4R]

Sweet, I don't how many of these are in Arizona but I would expect only a few. I initialy was looking at some South African safari trailers but went this route when they weren't going to export to the US as well.

I've been very happy with my decision and expect this puppy to last me many years of back country camping. :26_7_2:

[TACODOC]

I am finding my self thinking I need to rethink this option as Track Trailer (http://www.tracktrailer.com/) won't ever import their rig.

That is the coolest trailer I've ever seen!

The Tvan is so cool, its a shame things like that haven't caught on more in the US...

I saw a Fleetwood Evolution E2 up close at Calico and am very impressed by it. My wife is even more impressed...

A big selling factor is the cassette toilet/shower option.

[TACODOC]

We looked at a Jayco Baja today and my wife is in love with that thing...

... I think we may be buying one this week!

Obviously, I have my reservations but if it makes her happy I'll compromise.

[Root Moose]

We went to the RV show in Ottawa last weekend. They had a couple of the Jayco Bajas and some of the Palomino Real-Lite on display.

I don't know how people can say these trailers are not strong. ~2"x6" steel beams in the frame, four runs lengthwise. It's massive. I can see some criticism of the box itself being valid. Kinda flimsy compared to a military trailer but you really have to ask where exactly are you going to be hauling one of these units.

I think instead of doing up my old tent trailer this winter I'm going to buy a Starcraft 10RT in the spring and be happy. It's the size/format I like and I've seen some used units in this area in the $6k-$8k CDN range.

[indiedog]

I was at the Brisbane Caravan and Camping Show bit over a week ago. Huuuuge show with Kimberley and Track Trailer having all their stuff there. And that was just a small selection of the local product. As an architect I just love the detailed design and the fantastic use of space. Good to see it's well respected over there. Amazing there aren't more US built clones running around. The "Oasis" is a move in that direction though.

[R_Lefebvre]

We went to the RV show in Ottawa last weekend. They had a couple of the Jayco Bajas and some of the Palomino Real-Lite on display.

I don't know how people can say these trailers are not strong. ~2"x6" steel beams in the frame, four runs lengthwise. It's massive. I can see some criticism of the box itself being valid. Kinda flimsy compared to a military trailer but you really have to ask where exactly are you going to be hauling one of these units.

I think instead of doing up my old tent trailer this winter I'm going to buy a Starcraft 10RT in the spring and be happy. It's the size/format I like and I've seen some used units in this area in the $6k-$8k CDN range.

Well, from what I saw, and I can't remember which was which... I compared the frame on one of the off-road models to the standard models, and it was EXACTLY the same frame. The only difference was the extra frame welded on the front to make the platform. But that's not to say the frame wouldn't hold up to dirt roads. It's more the interior I think that is the concern. The fear is how well they'll hold up on washboard roads. I have heard they will shake themselves appart. I believe it's all fiberboard, not real wood.

All that being said... I still have some pangs of regret for not just buying one. I think with our young family, it might have been a better setup for what we're more likely to be doing. I think (I've never set up a tent trailer) it would be more possible to set the thing up by myself while my wife entertains the kids. Also, I do still like the idea of having the whole living space in one place. We will have our kids in a seperate space from us which concerns me somewhat. And then the "living" space will be seperate from the sleeping space. So, there will be no sleeping in while the kids play quietly or watch TV on the kitchen table.

With the setup I'm building, the tent and kitchen will be super quick, even faster than a tent trailer. But awnings, screen house... those will still take 2 people some time. I guess, the screen house we have is pretty quick because it's based on the "Eezi-Up" frame. It's really the large dome tent that is KILLER. Anyway...

I think the concern is the interior getting torn up. Particle board and pop rivets have NO place on washboard roads, let alone any serious pounding.

[go4aryd]

I think the concern is the interior getting torn up. Particle board and pop rivets have NO place on washboard roads, let alone any serious pounding.

Bingo - I have not had any problems with rivets, but the screws just vibrate out and I suppose if the road was extremely rough/rocky that the particle board would tear out as well. IF all the furniture been GLUED and screwed, I think it would hold up fine with careful use (note - there is a very wide range of what careful might mean to users of this forum!). Kinda of a shame we don't build solid construction in the mainstream anymore.

[Root Moose]

Well, from what I saw, and I can't remember which was which... I compared the frame on one of the off-road models to the standard models, and it was EXACTLY the same frame. The only difference was the extra frame welded on the front to make the platform. But that's not to say the frame wouldn't hold up to dirt roads. It's more the interior I think that is the concern. The fear is how well they'll hold up on washboard roads. I have heard they will shake themselves appart. I believe it's all fiberboard, not real wood.

All that being said... I still have some pangs of regret for not just buying one. I think with our young family, it might have been a better setup for what we're more likely to be doing. I think (I've never set up a tent trailer) it would be more possible to set the thing up by myself while my wife entertains the kids. Also, I do still like the idea of having the whole living space in one place. We will have our kids in a seperate space from us which concerns me somewhat. And then the "living" space will be seperate from the sleeping space. So, there will be no sleeping in while the kids play quietly or watch TV on the kitchen table.

With the setup I'm building, the tent and kitchen will be super quick, even faster than a tent trailer. But awnings, screen house... those will still take 2 people some time. I guess, the screen house we have is pretty quick because it's based on the "Eezi-Up" frame. It's really the large dome tent that is KILLER. Anyway...

I think the concern is the interior getting torn up. Particle board and pop rivets have NO place on washboard roads, let alone any serious pounding.

Yeah, I can see that. Again though, I guess it depends on what the intended purpose of the machine will be and if you need that "capacity".

Personally, I'm not adverse to fixing things if they get screwed up. I dislike particle board with the best of them but I can run a compound mitre say and/or sheet metal working tools if I need to start replacing stuff. The reality is that given how often I would be using one of these units and where I'd be going I suspect it would be a decade or more before I'd have any real issues with the unit. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic?

It's funny, but my wife suggested not to worry about the cabinets and such. If they get screwed up get a removable kitchen to go in the trailer. Smart lady. ;)

I figure that a used pop-up at say $7k versus some of these other units at 2-3-4 times the cost are a better value for my intended purpose. I was going to ruggedize a old soft top popup that I have - very small box - maybe 7' long by 6' wide. But you know what? It's just old at this point. By the time I did everything I would want to do I would likely be into the trailer for over $5k. It would be a better wheeling trailer due to size but it's not as nice. It is a bit of a b!tch to setup (not hard top) and would in general be a pita and a lot of work. I'm just not interested in that right now.