Tacoma starter failure at 135K miles

[BajaTaco]

Wow, this is the first time my trusty Tacoma would not start due to a mechanical failure that was solely a Toyota issue. (Previous three occassions were a cracked battery connector, dead battery (my fault), and a malfunctioned aftermarket ignition-kill security device, none of which left me stranded luckily). At 135,000 miles with lots of wild trips I can't complain. It is actually an item that I had somewhat anticipated could eventually happen just due to age and severe duty. The same goes for the alternator (which is still going strong, knock on wood). For the record, it is a 1998 TRD Xcab V6, in service for 9 years so far.

Now, luckily, this happened in my own driveway at home. Not hundreds of miles into Mexico or the outback of Utah or Nevada, or some such remote location. I played this out in my head as if it had happened in the field. Not so terrible to deal with I suppose. My first try would be to smack the offending device with a hammer or rock and that will often do the trick, and it will start. If that fails, I could probably do the push-start method since I have a manual transmission (stick-shift). And if that failed (probably would work though), I could pull the starter and do a field repair by cleaning the contacts and that would likely get me on my way. Well, as I began to remove the starter, I discovered that there is a bracket for the exhaust header that is mounted just in front of one of the bolts that passes through the bell housing and secures the starter to the vehicle. In order to remove that bolt, the bracket must come off. No biggie right? Well, it is in a very tight spot and has 3 bolts securing it. One to the header flange, and two to the bell housing. The two on the bell housing came off okay. The one mounted to the header flange was a little rusty and seized pretty good, even after a treatment with penetrant.

Scott was nice enough to come over and we put his bada$$ ExtremeAire compressor to the task with an impact wrench. That did the trick. Now had I been in the field, this would have been interesting. I don't carry air tools. I likely would have had to use my dremel tool to grind the bolt off to free the bracket.

So I get the starter taken apart, and the brushes appear to have plenty of meat left on them, but the contacts are badly worn, including the disc on the plunger. So I sanded everything down and put it all back together. The truck starts fine now. I have to order the parts (small town syndrome) and will put new contacts in and it should be fine. I am considering just installing a new starter and keeping this one for a spare, but they are not exactly inexpensive.

In the case of the alternator, I carry a set of brushes/brush holders that I can swap out if necessary, and according to most cases I have seen and read about, this along with some cleaning will fix it. I will likely do this at home sometime soon and get one more set to carry as trail spares.

Anyway, just something to think about if you have a Tacoma that is getting up there in mileage. Scott and I were talking about identifying potential failures and he mentioned that it would be nice to have a database that people could contribute to. (Unfortunately, neither one of us has the time to set something like that up). What part failed at what mileage. This would give a nice point of reference on how to try and mitigate any problems in the field. My estimates of what may need to be replaced in the near future is O2 sensor(s), and alternator brushes. I have no idea how long my clutch might last, but I am considering replacing that too. But at this point, it is still strong.

Regardless, I am thrilled that my Tacoma has been so reliable. I think I will get at least a couple more years of relatively worry-free trips out of it before I am faced with the nickel-dime thing (that will make 11 years of service). During this time, I will be formulating plans for the next project vehicle.

:box:

[gjackson]

During this time, I will be formulating plans for the next project vehicle.

I heard somewhere that there is a nice 1995 hard top D90 for sale!

:jump: :hehe: :beer:

cheers!

[bigreen505]

Lots of good points there.

I would separate the data base into failures for OEM parts, including OEM replacements, and aftermarket parts such as starters.

When formulating a spares and replacement list for an aging vehicle separate parts that are candidates for catastrophic failure and those that are not likely. For example the BajaTaco may be 8 years and 135,000 miles old, but the chance you will lose your clutch on a trip is not very high if it is not showing any signs of problems. The chance that you might lose a slave or master cylinder is much higher, so if you are worried about them it might be worth adding a master and slave rebuild kit to your spares.

There is definietly a fine line between being proactive about maintenance and O.C. about it. There is definitely a point where buying a new rig is simply a better way to go, but sometimes you are too far into maintenance hell before you realize it. I know I have been there, and this time I made the decision that I would rather put my money into another rig than do what would be the equivalent of a restoration on the Pathfinder.

Spares are something that I struggle with a bit because I would feel silly getting stuck with a broken truck and no spare, but equally silly if the vehicle is overloaded because I have a spare for everything.

[Grim Reaper]

My findings with intermittent starters on Toys have been several issues. My contacts are worn and when its cold out will hang the starter running. Have to turn the key off and back on to get it to free up.

On my Supra the Starter interlock relay (the relay that won't let you start unless clutch is pressed or its in Neutral on and auto) burned the contacts. I have also head of problems with the contacts in the actual column switch as well.

Here is a place to get the contacts for the starter. http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Starter.shtml#OnlineOrdering He makes some custom parts for Toys as well and has a lot of good tech tips.

A few additions.

22R Toyota motors...Put a timing chain in every 100k. If it fails its expensive. What actually fails more often is the guides. They will get brittle and break allowing the chain to slap the cover right up behind the water pump. When it wears through it empties the coolant into the crank case. :mad:

Engine Builder sells a timing set with a metal backed guide to prevent the wear through the cover issues. http://www.engnbldr.com/ToyotaHotLicks.htm

200k you can pretty well count on Toyota's with sealed wheel bearing needing them replaced. If you get a wheel seal leak just plan on replacing the bearing. That includes most 4x4's

Idler arm on IFS trucks is easily bent. Once it starts to bend it puts the tie rods and a sever angle and it will bind the Tie-rod ends and bend or break the drag links or tie rods. It can fail to the point where the drag link is pushed into the sump. It would be a good idea to keep one as a spare on the truck. MOOG makes one that seems stronger then the factory Toyota Unit. Autozone carries it. Swapped on the Moog and keep the used factory as a back up. Total Chaos makes a super heavy duty one for Desert race set ups.

I really don't see many other failures that are not random. Most stuff if you do regular maintenance and do a full check after each trail ride you should catch before it becomes a major problem. Water is the big killer. Check all fluids and give a shot of grease to anything with a nipple.

[Brian894x4]

I think the starter contact and alternator brush failures would be extremely common at your mileage. I've seen Tacoma starter contacts go out with as little as 40,000 miles, but that's on a 7 year old truck. Obviously, it's the number of times the starter has been used, more than the age or mileage.

Our older trucks have the same common issue. When my starter contacts went out I just replaced them, but then for some reason still had an intermittent starting problem. I later decided to go with a Toyota rebuilt unit from the dealer and I'm glad I did. I have more peace of mind about it now.

As for the alternator, this another item that you really don't want to fail. While brushes can just be replaced, the problem is that the brushes usually go out after 130-150K miles and while new brushes might last that long, you have other issues like worn bearings and worn copper contacts that brushes touch (can't remember what it's called) that really should be replaced at the same time. In other words, if the brushes are worn out and it's just a city car, then I would save the bucks and replace the brushes. But for an expendition rig, I'd rebuild the entire alternator. If you can't do this, a good local alternator shop can and usually for not much more than $100. You might be able to pick up a really cheap chinese knock off rebuild for the same price, but I'd a want a good OEM, rebuilt part doing that very important job.

Since we're on the subject one area that I'm wondering about is how long my fuel pump will last. My truck is 17 years old and has well north of 200K miles on the original pump. You don't hear of EFI fuel pump failures very often, but a new part is spendy and a pain to change out, so I've been debating whether I should just chance it or buy a new part. I do carry a wrecking yard spare, but I sure don't look forward to having to install it in the middle of nowhere if it were needed.

[erin]

I had fuel pump problems on my 89Toy. Apparently, when I bought it, it had low miles, but this was due to the fact that it sat alot of its early life with an empty tank in Wisconsin. So, needless to say, the tank was horribly corroded and all the gunk clogged the boot filter and burned out the pump. So it was replaced with OEM part, which was fun, and exactly 367 days later it also burned out. Lucky, I was able to strong arm Toyota into a new one, but with no warranty. So, even with OEM parts, there is never a guarentee.

As far as starters, never a problem, but I think I went through 3 factory alternators in around 250K. But I have talked to alot of people who experienced the same thing, so it seemed like a common problem.

Even though both are a pain if they fail in the field, at least Toyotas don't have many failures across the board as some vehicles do.

[Boston Mangler]

Hey Chris

80's have a similar known problem as well.

Toyota actually sells a $25 starter rebuild kit that included a new plunger and contacts. I did mine about 4k ago and it was simple.

Check here for info: http://www.george4wd.taskled.com/starter.html

p.s. not sure on the taco, but the 80 starter contacts/plunger can get stuck when they are worn and can cause quite a mess!

[VikingVince]

Chris,

Interesting you should mention the O2 sensor. I just failed my CA smog test because of a bad O2 sensor on my '98 Tacoma (147K miles). Repair at Toyota dealer: $270 labor, $170 for the part. (I could have done it myself - JOKE!) Water pump was leaking and was replaced at about 135K miles. The dealership noticed the water pump during my major tune-up before the big EP Baja trip.
I thought starters often gave an indication that they were going bad.????

[cruiseroutfit]

My contact went around 120k, I've seen them go in rigs from 80-200+k. Good thing is they are cheap and easy to fix... I've considered carrying spares, but usually they give some sort of indicator they are going. Hindsite, for the $15 worth of parts, I'm going to toss a set in the toolbox.

As for what I have had to replace on my Tacoma:

Waterpump/timing belt - routine maint.
Front output seal - leaking @ 120k
Driveline carrier bearing - bad @ 140k
Rack/Pinion Unit - bad @ 150k

[Ursidae69]

So I get the starter taken apart, and the brushes appear to have plenty of meat left on them, but the contacts are badly worn, including the disc on the plunger. So I sanded everything down and put it all back together. The truck starts fine now. I have to order the parts (small town syndrome) and will put new contacts in and it should be fine. I am considering just installing a new starter and keeping this one for a spare, but they are not exactly inexpensive.


I've never taken a starter apart before, this is all foreign to me. Are there tips on taking one apart in case we have to do it in the field someday?

[Boston Mangler]

I've never taken a starter apart before, this is all foreign to me. Are there tips on taking one apart in case we have to do it in the field someday?

Put a sheet or similar thing down and DONT LOOSE ANYTHING! Or then that, its fairly simple! :sunflower

[Desertdude]

Chris, Good report and a nice reminder of what spares to carry - sometimes starter ( and alts for that matter ) can go prematurely bad due to certain voltage drops to the contacts - Considering the starters job -135K does not seem to bad in the long run

[Seeker]

Anyway, just something to think about if you have a Tacoma that is getting up there in mileage. Scott and I were talking about identifying potential failures and he mentioned that it would be nice to have a database that people could contribute to. (Unfortunately, neither one of us has the time to set something like that up). What part failed at what mileage. This would give a nice point of reference on how to try and mitigate any problems in the field.

This sounds like an excellent idea. A Wiki might be a good way to go on this. It would allow the members to publish articles and then be edited by other members, with all approvals funneling through the staff(?).

Judging by what I see in my browser debugger, there are any number of freely available Wiki frameworks that could work. It also keeps with the open forum theme quite nicely.

[Jonathan Hanson]

Thanks for the report, Chris. Our starter is still going strong at 160,000 miles, but perhaps it's time for me to rebuild it, especially considering we have an automatic transmission.

At this mileage we have yet to have any mechanical failures! I replaced the timing chain/water pump at 125,000 miles as regular maintenance, and also the steering box tie rod ends at 150,000 miles, as they were loose.

IIRC, aircraft have well-documented service lifespans for major components, which must be replaced at half that expected life or something similar. It would be great to have a database like that for vehicle components.

[BajaTaco]

Thanks to everyone for their input, experiences and suggestions. Based on my inpsection of my starter when I took it apart, and after talking to Toyota of Dallas (TRDParts4U.com) and getting their opinion based on what they sell (one of the largest Toyota parts inventories), I decided to just replace the contacts and the plunger on the starter. I just got the parts. So after I get the parts installed, I will post some before/after pics of all this stuff, and part numbers so others can reference it.

My next target is the alternator.

[BajaTaco]

I've never taken a starter apart before, this is all foreign to me. Are there tips on taking one apart in case we have to do it in the field someday?

Chuck, yes - I will share some info and pics soon. You can check yours out to see if that flange will be an issue for you on removal.

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Chris.........

My starter began to act up on my recent Colorado trip even though I had the contacts replaced just a year ago (I feel it's a Mr. Sucky issue!).

Symptom~ Drive truck......turn truck off......try to start it while hot after 5-10 min. .....won't start. Let it cool down for about an hour....starts right up.

The shop in Cortez that was going to do the work was able to get me a new/rebuilt Toyota Factory starter for $175 from the Toyota dealer in Durango, CO.

I decided to put a whole new starter in because I was not sure what I had for a starter now.

The shop had to actually unbolt my engine mount at the starter side and lift the engine up a little, to get the starter out because of my new Downey Headers (a job I could not do on the trail!)

So I decided to go with a new starter for the same labor amount as to only rebuild it.

Working fine now.......

I will rebuild my old starter and keep for a spare.


If anyone is ever in need of help around the Four Corners area.......

Check out Cortez Auto Repair......in Cortez, Colorado.

Very fair and honest!

See Rick at the Desk and owners Fred and Todd who do the work.

You can stay right next door at the Aneth Inn while they do the work for only $35 bucks a night! Then use the motel as a comfy basecamp!


(see Toyota starter box on top of "SWR")

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i156/ScenicWonderRunner/2006_0919Summerinthesanjuans0310.jpg

[Grim Reaper]

Chris.........

My starter began to act up on my recent Colorado trip even though I had the contacts replaced just a year ago (I feel it's a Mr. Sucky issue!).

Symptom~ Drive truck......turn truck off......try to start it while hot after 5-10 min. .....won't start. Let it cool down for about an hour....starts right up.

.

The shop had to actually unbolt my engine mount at the starter side and lift the engine up a little, to get the starter out because of my new Downey Headers (a job I could not do on the trail!)

So I decided to go with a new starter for the same labor amount as to only rebuild it.

Working fine now.......

I will rebuild my old starter and keep for a spare.


]

Your header is the problem. Its baking the starter. Put some header wrap on it or a heat blanket on the starter.

[njtaco]

Your header is the problem. Its baking the starter. Put some header wrap on it or a heat blanket on the starter.

:iagree:

Grim,

My GMs did that, too. Way too much heat for the starter to take. Beating on the starter body (not the problem, anyways) only shattered the magnets, and I usually have had automatics, so no help there. Also, the solenoid was the part I most often have had trouble with. I could "bypass" it, if I could reach it, and start the truck.

SWR,

I know what you mean about the "roll the engine on its side to change the starter." Not fun. Glad you could get it done in a shop.

BT,

Isn't it nice when the truck "dies" at home, instead of away? Not that a Toyota should leave you stranded at all! :D Do let us know how the alternator rebuild goes, if you do that as preventive maintenance.

Thx,

Bob

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Grim Reaper...........

I was beginning to wonder if it might be my header heating up the starter too much......and I asked Cortez Auto about this.

I'm home now and my truck goes to my local mechanic Monday morning for help with my smog check that's due.

I'm going to ask him about my new headers and if this could have caused my starter problem. .....and would he have a solution. Like a wrap or a heat shield.

Thanks for the reminder.

I'm a first time Toyota owner.....so I'm not familiar with all these details.

I put the headers on to help the headgaskets last longer............who knew it might cause another problem!

But I also had a crook of an engine rebuilder who may have stole my good starter and left an old bad starter on my new engine block!

[Grim Reaper]

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2D350108&N=700+115&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=THE%2D14150&N=700+115&autoview=sku

something like that will help a lot on the starter.

Or on the headers
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=THE%2D11031&N=700+115&autoview=sku

THe header wrap can cause rust out problem on steel headers and on Ceramic coat the manufactures bulk at the wrap. the starter sheild may be better for your problem.

[BajaTaco]

OK, as promised, HERE (http://www.bajataco.com/starter_contacts/index.htm) are some pics of the starter parts that I replaced. Something odd happened. Although my starter is suppsedly the "non-cold" spec unit for the 5VZFE V6 engine, one of the contacts on my starter was from the "cold-spec" 4-cyl. unit. How weird is that? and what a pain in the butt. As I note in the above link, this is not a write-up article for the procedure, just some pics and notes so Chuck and others can see what I am talking about.

If you decide to pull your starter for an inspection, I urge you to get the documentation from the Toyota FSM as it details the whole deal and gives the procedures for checking individual part tolerances for a bunch of different things you can check with calipers, plus elec. checks you can do with a VOM. If you don't have it and you want the info, send me a PM.

[flyingwil]

So is the new kit reversed based upon the second to last and last pictures?

[BajaTaco]

So is the new kit reversed based upon the second to last and last pictures?

I'm not sure I understand your question. But the contact plate for the battery side terminal for the 6-cyl and 4-cyl are mirror images of one another, or you could say the tabs are bent 180 degrees from one another.

[Dave]

I got to experience this thrill first hand the last few days in the boonies of Southern Utah. Since no parts were available (it was Friday of course!) and I had no place to work on it, we had to burn a day and haul down to St. George to have the starter replaced under my extended warranty. Roughly 60,000 miles when the starter started to fail. With the new starter, it's obvious to me that this is something that was gradual rather then all at once. I noticed a difference in how it started right away the first time I turned the key after the work was done this afternoon.

Two thumbs up to the dealer ship there in St. George, we were in and out in just a few hours today even though they forgot to write my appointment in the book when I called on Friday. They even shuttled us to and from the mall...quite the culture shock after spending seven days in the canyons and cow towns of S. Utah!!

[devinsixtyseven]

i and a buddy of mine are doing this right now, we're both at roughly 130K on our tundras. we also both had the turn-CLICK-dang moment...mine did it yesterday for the first time, tho i've been getting 1/4 turn false starts for a while and didnt realize that was the problem. did the same 1/4turn-GRUNT-die thing today, new starter should arrive friday or monday. i'm just glad it happened in the driveway and not on kingston peak in a snowstorm.

depending on how your starter is designed and where it's located, you can just rebuild it yourself. on a tundra, it's under the intake manifold and it's about a 2-4 hour job if you know what you're doing. for 130K, we both chose to install a remanned unit rather than attempt a rebuild and find the solenoid was the problem, in addition to/rather than the contacts, as the contact kit is cheap but the gaskets for the intake manifold are 30$ a pop, and if you have to do it twice you may as well have bought a remanned starter in the first place--the core+solenoid are a single unit on our starters, only the contacts can be changed easily.

the major wear items do have a recommended changed interval. for the really big stuff it's 90K...timing belts, water pumps, tensioners, seals, all have a 90K swap interval intended to prevent a breakdown in the field ie you swap the parts before they die.

-sean

[BajaTaco]

Dave, 60K - that is a bummer.

Sean, that is very useful info on the Tundra - thanks for adding that.

[p1michaud]

OK, as promised, HERE (http://www.bajataco.com/starter_contacts/index.htm) are some pics of the starter parts that I replaced.

BajaTaco,
Thanks for taking the time to post pics!
My starter did something funky the other day and since I prefer preventive vs. breakdown maintenance I decided to pull the starter and replace the contacts and plunger. My starter has 162K miles on it with not maintenance so it's served me well.
I purchased parts using my VIN to confirm what starter I had at the local Toyota dealer. I then used a combination of the pics you provided and the FSM for the re-build. Total time was 4 hours that included drilling out that bolt you had to use an air impact to remove. I was not so fortunate, I took the time to soak it quite well with penetrating oil but it was so rusted that it just turned to dust when I tried to turn it with the impact wrench. So I was forced to drill the bolt out.

Now it starts like a new truck! Interesting to note that tonight, I'm going to re-build another one of a 1999 Tacoma with 94K miles on it. His starter has nearly failed. I'll try and get some pics of the re-build if I can have enough hands to take pictures while progressing the repair job. He needs his truck to get to work, so we will be under the gun to get the job done!

Cheers :beer:,
P