Project: Doitall Dodge

[Metcalf]

I guess everyone eventually falls into a project! I didn't really plan to ever build a full size truck for my expedition vehicle but that is what came my way. I would have much rather had a Unimog or an long wheelbase jeep in some respects, but all around I don't think I made a bad choice.

This is also my first Dodge, and what a beast it is! I grew up a ford guy, then messed around with toyota, jeeps, etc. I have been off-roading for the past 15-20 years now. I still have my old 1942 Willys jeep, and that was probably the number one reason I got this truck. I need something to tow the old Willys around. Since we moved down to Southwest Colorado it is absolutely killing me that Moab is only 2.5 hours away, not to mention all the high mountain Colorado trails right out my back door, montrose, and farmington....all close enough for weekend trips!

Now I didn't just run out and buy the first diesel truck I could find. I looked LONG AND HARD to find it. In the end it did fall into my lap being that it was local to me.

The number one thing I wanted was a diesel. Since college I have had a thing for alternative fuels. Diesel engines 'can' burn about anything in an emergency, and can digest a solid diet of cheap alternative fuels if proper care is taken.

The second thing I really wanted was a 'Rebuild-able' and 'Simple' truck. I didn't want a fluffy new truck that uses a lot of special tools and parts. I wanted something very simple that could be maintained and fixed with simple hand tools and no computers. The drivetrain needed to be very strong and also have serviceable wheel bearings, brakes, etc.

After looking around at just about everything produced since the 70s I decided on the 1st generation Dodge truck. I feel they are the last of the truly rebuild-able trucks.

Once I had decided on what I wanted to get....I had to find one. I looked locally in the paper, on bulletin boards, Craigslist, ebay, etc. I was pretty picky in what I wanted. I wanted a 1992 or 1993 since they came with the first of the Intercooled Turbocharged Cummins engines. I also wanted a manual transmission. I have gone back and forth over the years about transmissions......generally I always end up with a manual. The Getrag transmission in these trucks isn't the best, but I think it gets a bad rep most of the time. Its a decent all iron granny 5-speed. The transmission is backed by the last np205 transfer cases used in the dodge lineup. It also has 32 spline front and rear outputs. The front axle is the last of the King-pin Dana 60s with serviceable bearings. The rear axle is a 32 spline Dana 70 full floating axle. All in all I think its the best 'stock' drivetrain you can get in a pickup unless you want to start swapping stuff.

Anyways. I am sure you are all bored by now so I will get on with it. I ended up finding a very well used 1992 W250 locally. It was the truck that I would have ordered off the showroom floor back in the day. The 92-93 W250s have the same 8" tall frame as the 1-ton trucks. The only difference between the 3/4ton and 1ton as far as I can tell is the rear spring packs and perhaps some rear brake parts. The truck was WELL used overall, but I purchased it for $2000. I don't care who you are....getting just the drive train for that was a good deal!

Here are some pics of the truck the day I went and got it....

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010193.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010192.jpg

Its a project for sure....

Its a 1992 W250 manufactured in april of 92.
Intercooled Cummins Turbo Diesel
5-speed manual transmission
4wd
Regular cab longbed
Tilt steering, intermittent wipers
Air conditioning
Cruise control
Vinyl flooring
Bench seat
Manual window and locks

It was owned by the same family for most of its life. It was recently passed down from father to son. The son was very artistic and decorated the truck with lots of tags and stickers! Those where the first things to come off!

The truck also came with a nice reciever hitch, a gooseneck hitch, new front springs to level the truck, 16x8" aluminum rims, 315/75r16 worn out tires, 240K on the odometer, no front driveshaft, a very rough body covered in a thin coat of cheap bedliner, a cracked windshield, and no drivers side window in the door!

[Metcalf]

Since this truck has to earn a living it really needed a front driveshaft! Since it didn't come with one at all this opened the door to an improvement.....

The stock rear driveshaft on a 1st gen dodge diesel is a nice beefy unit that has huge 1410 u-joints at both ends while the front is an oddball unit with a 1330ish flange mount CV joint and a dodge specific u-joint at the front dana 60 pinion.

After some careful measuring I concluded that I could ditch the front CV joint and run a normal front drive shaft if I didn't lift the truck anymore. I don't have any plans to lift the suspension any more on this truck, if anything I might drop it an inch or two!

After some more looking I concluded that the pinion yoke off the rear axle will work on the front AND the same is true with the front and rear 32 spline outputs on the NP205 transfer case. So with the right parts I could have matching 1410 driveshaft parts for the front and rear of the truck. This means that I can swap a lot of parts front to back if I ever needed to for a trail or road repair. I can also carry less spare parts because the front and rear driveshafts use the same u-joint at all 4 places.

I looked long and hard for a used rear driveshaft and yokes to make a front shaft but didn't have any luck. With winter approaching I needed 4wd and needed it now! My driveway is just insane in the winter.

So after giving up on finding used parts I ordered all the parts I would need to convert the front over to regular 1410 yokes and all the driveline parts I needed.

After installing some new seals I bolted up the new yokes. Please excuse the oily mess I have under he truck!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010110.jpg

Since I had to get new yokes I decided to get yokes with u-bolts instead of straps. I will modify the rear yoke for u-bolts in the near future.

Once I had the new yokes in I double checked all the measurements for compression, extension and static length. I built my own driveshaft to save some money. I felt it was short enough to not need balancing AND I can generally get the tolerance for runout much less than production shops at work. I ended up making the shaft with some 3" .120 DOM seamless tubing for a little extra beef. I didn't get too many shots but you can see it below on the table at work as I check the yokes to make sure they are in phase. The total run out on the shaft ended up being about .004-.006! Thats good enough for this old truck.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010112.jpg

I ended up playing with having the slip yoke at the transfer case for the first round. I think this will help everything clear the cross member better. I will change it around after I build the new belly skidplate and cross member.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010114.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010113.jpg

I have a few months on the shaft as I am writing this. It doesn't vibrate at all. I wouldn't suggest going 100mph in 4wd but I feel very comfortable going 60 mph in 4hi. In all reality this truck is heavy enough and has a long enough wheelbase that I don't use 4wd over about 30mph in most cases.

I really like the fact that one spare 1410 u-joint will fit either the front or rear drive shaft at either the transfer case or the pinion. The slip yokes will also swap front to rear if I ever need to do that.

Next.....Body work....ACK!!!!

[02TahoeMD]

We used one of these on the farm I worked on in college, loved the truck. Gobs of power. Welcome to the full size rig club! Look forward to seeing your build.

[KEENO]

Awesome Metcalf... Heck'uva a find! Kind of like a stray puppy... It found you!:victory:

I like to think of the Dodge/Cummins First Gens as being similar to a Ball-Peen Hammer: Simple, Functional & Robust... If you stare at one long enough from this perspective, you might even think sexy:drool: Also, back to the Ball-Peen Hammer analogy.... Somewhat difficult to tear up!:)

The beauty of these trucks is that someone has already had all of the problems and knows the fix. No issues are original.... They're just happening to you for the first time! (That's what Google & the TDR are for)

Hey, just one moment of unsolicited advice (my girlfriend sez I'm good at this sort of thing) regarding the Getrag G360. Good News - with as many miles as you have on yours, you probably have a good one! You can keep it alive longer by increasing oil level. The Getrag G360 uses regular 5W-30 motor oil as a lubricant.... Not Gear Oil. Here's the unsolicited tip: Change the oil in the Trans to Synthetic Oil (Mobil 1 5W-30 worked well for me when I still had the Getrag) and when done filling to the top plug on the Trans.... Pull the Shifter Boot (inside the truck) and top off with another Pint (16 oz.). The manual sez the G360 holds 3.5 U.S. Quarts, by adding more oil the Output Shaft Bearing isn't starved for lube causing it's early dimise.

Here's the Getrag G360 ratios if interested:
1st - 5.531:1
2nd - 3.017:1
3rd - 1.60:1
4th - 1.00:1
5th - 0.77:1
Reverse - 5.029:1

Note: I carried the decimals to 3 places in most cases, because precision matters! :sombrero:
Besides, Decimals are easier... It's fact: "5 out of 4 people have difficulty with fractions"

Feel free to give a shout or PM if you need anything out of the much used Service Manual.

BTW: I forgot to mention in all of the First Gen excitement, that I definitely have a severe case of Front Drive Shaft Envy! Still on my list & spinning the Slip Yoke Unit after all of these years.

KEENO:)

[Overdrive]

Wow, that's a humungus front driveshaft!

Just can't beat the early Dodge diesels for bulletproof. Like KEENO said, everything that can go wrong (and there's not much) is a known fix. I kick myself everyday for selling mine...I just had to get something "newer and better"...ya, right.

You know the old saying, "You don't know what you have until it's gone." Well, I learned that one.

And I have to say "Hi' to KEENO...now there's a ghost from TDR threads past. KEENO- you'll remember me...I'm the one who found out a '93 won't start if you put the air filter in backwards...:victory:
Scott

[KEENO]

Not to Hi-jack:

Hey Overdrive... I do remember you from the TDR, but don't remember the Air Filter Issue! Not surprising, I'm over 40 now and seem to have selective memory retention. Is it true about the airfilter??? LOL:)

I still love the Turbo Diesel Register and I'm a current member since January of 2000. But... How many questions can you ask/answer about First Gen's? It kind of becomes like watching reruns of "Leave it to Beaver"

I bought an old Alaskan Camper for the First Gen and really digging ExPo! Great Gang here!

KEENO:)

PS: I even stole my Truck Signature from the TDR instead of retype. Lazy?

[Overdrive]

Not to Hi-jack:

Is it true about the airfilter??? LOL:)



I bought an old Alaskan Camper for the First Gen and really digging ExPo! Great Gang here!

KEENO:)

Oh yes it's true... the solid steel end has to go one way 'cause the air won't flow too well through the steel...of course, I managed to put it the other way.:oops:

Definately a great gang here at ExPo. Put up some pics of your sweet ride!

[Hi-jack off]

[Metcalf]

Overall I have been very impressed with this truck. I have had a fullsize ford since high school, but the big block and shortbox don't lend itself to my current needs. I had thought about installing a 4bt in the ol' girl but decided it was cheaper to just by a compete truck with the the diesel and one ton running gear already in it.

My Getrag is a little finicky but doesn't make any 'bad' noises. Last week I drained out whatever was in it and pumped in 5 quarts of synthetic 5w-30. It made a world of difference in how it shifted both cold and warm. I know this transmission won't last forever and I have visions of a 6-speed install someday!

The thing that surprises me the most is the mileage this truck archives. I have been getting a very consistent 20-21mpg with mixed driving. I don't drive it to the floor all the time, but I don't really baby it. This also includes towing a light trailer around and hauling 400 gallons of water to the house in the bed about twice a week. It doesn't really tend to care what I do. I have 3.54 gears with 315/75R16s on it now. The gearing works out pretty well. On the flats its great but on the climb out of Durango on the way home it fights 5th gear and 4th is just a little too low. A 3200 spring might fix this problem enough.

The overall plans for this truck are to be an all around truck that I can haul my Willys jeep to Moab on the weekends, camp out of the back, haul water to the house, haul whatever I want, and run mild long range expeditions like trips down Baja.

I have had visions of spending WAY too much money on this truck. I am fighting a battle in my head about how far to take the buildup. Basically the buildup can fall into three categories....

3- The most crazy and expensive. Nice and low on 42s, ARBs, 4.56s, 6 speed, Lowmax t-case, etc etc. I could spend 50K it seems!

2- A more mild buildup on 37s, stretch the fenders, etc,

1- Keep most everything stock with 315s, clean, stockish.

The problem with going bigger than 315s is that it leads to this snowball effect where the truck ends up costing a fortune. I am trying to be very frugal on the truck by buying used parts, junkyard parts, and even building a lot of parts myself. I am also doing all the body work and paint myself.

The basic plan as of today is...

-Clean up the bodywork, fix what is needed, and paint it all a nice color.
-Run some 315 tires so I can keep the 3.54 gears.
-Find a camper shell for the back and build a nice sleeping/storage system.
-Build a nice set of bumpers and rocker guards.
-Install a winch in the front
-Install some kind of on-board air system.
-Install a 2nd fuel tank behind the rear axle

I have a lot of other little stuff I can do as weekend projects....
-Twin stick cable shifter for the NP205 for FWD and 2low
-Hydroboost brakes
-Crossover steering conversion
-Spruce up the interior
-Motor mods
-and on and on.

The biggest priority right now is the body work.

I will work up my next post later tonight about the start of the bodywork.

[wely]

I always loved the old bodystyle Dodges. Down here in the South if you mention the words dodge and Cummins in the same sentence you have a gold mine. You can almost get anything you want.

[Metcalf]

Bodywork!!!

I have to warn everyone that I am not the best body man at all! I am learning as I go. I am pretty use to working with metal so a lot of this is coming pretty easy. I am not really using any fancy tools yet....

The biggest problem with this truck is that the body was pretty dang rough and coated lightly in some Durabak bedliner. This bedliner has been a total pain in the rear to remove. I have tried about everything and am resorting to borrowing a sandblaster in the near future.

I figured I would start by doing some light welding. The bed on the truck is pretty hammered. Both front bedside seams are split on the front edge of the bed. I got everything back into place and starting welding them up with my little welder using some .025 wire and C25.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010132-1.jpg

These corners where pretty darn bad. I ended up with some low spots from the welding but those will be easy to fill with a light coat of lightweight filler.
The key to welding sheet metal is to take your time. Remove all the paint, or bedliner and paint in my case, you want nice clean bare metal to weld. DO NOT try and run a bead, its just tack-move-tack-move-tack. The farther you can space out the tack welds and reduce the heat the better. Also the less gap the better in general unless you have some way to back the metal with some copper or something. Once I got the corners welded up I started cleaning them up with a sanding disc on the 4" grinder. If you go really slow and light this works great, just remember not to hit the sheet metal to much, its really easy to burn through. Its not perfect but it did clean up pretty well.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010138-1.jpg

Both sides of the bed had pretty good splits. I also had some pretty bad damage to the rear bed corners on the top near the tailgate.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010133.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010134.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010142.jpg

I did the same basic process. I bent all the metal back in place the best I could and welded everything back together followed by some more flap disc sanding to clean everything up. I still have a little more work to do but they came together pretty well. It is amazing the difference in rigidity that these repairs made.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010144-1.jpg

I was also able to start fixing the drivers side front fender. It has a nice little dent in the front corner. I was able to hammer and dolly it back into shape well enough that I can skim coat and sand it. I decided to leave the small crease in the metal. It was stretched a little too bad to pound out. I didn't want to heat shrink it. This dodge sheet metal doesn't strike me as the best.

Before.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010130.jpg

After.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010161.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010162-1.jpg

I didn't bother to try and remove the paint for this area yet. This has that bedliner on it and its a pain. It also saves me from priming it while I drive the truck around during the week.

Needed to break this up into two posts.....

[Metcalf]

I guess its typical of most of these older trucks with bed sides that wrap slightly around the cab, but there are always dents in the cab from the bed hitting the cab under frame flex. The passenger side was much worse than the drivers side. I removed the paint off the passengers side since the dent was large enough I needed to see what was going on. Luckily you can get to the backside of these dents pretty easy. I ended up using about a foot long rod that was about a half inch around to poke at the dents from the backside. Once I got the dents popped out I was able to hammer and dolly them back down to shape with what seemed like a thousand little hits.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010159.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010160.jpg

I didn't have too many pictures, but I also replaced both doors with slightly older doors I got from a friend in New Mexico. They are both in very good shape and will only need very mild work. They have manual window and locks. I was able to use all the locks, handles, and latches off the original doors from the truck. They need some new rubber but overall are a VAST improvement over the doors that came on the truck. They also had grey old style door panels that are not in terrible shape.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010166-1.jpg

The passenger side front fender was just a little too far gone to save. I made a trip to the local junkyard to see what I could find. I ended up finding a perfect door and dang good tailgate for $25. You can't go wrong with that. My tailgate is very very hammered and not worth working with. I will also be removing all the chrome trip and going with a more basic looking truck overall.
The tailgate has two nickle sized dings in the top which I may just cover with a tailgate guard and one dent in the middle face that I think I can get out pretty easy.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010129-1.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010164-1.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010165.jpg

Don't worry my old tailgate won't be a total waste. I am going to scavenge the locks and hardware from. I am also going to end up cutting a piece of the inner skin to fix the hole under the gooseneck hitch that is in my bed. That thing is coming out for sure!

The last recent thing I did was remove the rubber flares off rear wheel wells. I wanted to check for rust under them. I also don't have front flares so I think I will be running the truck in the older style without any flares. I love these southwest trucks....no rust to speak of.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010158.jpg

I am going to continue on the body work. I need to find a semi-quick way to get the bedliner off the body panels so I can start filling/sanding/priming. The bed is going to get some more attention also. I need to french in my 2nd fuel filler door and trim/flange the rear quarter panels for the wrap around bumper I have planned for the rear. Hopefully this rear bumper will make up for the longer overhang of the long box on the truck. I had visions of bobbing the bed but I didn't want to have to make a custom camper shell. The rear bumper will hopefully maximize clearance as much as practical and minimize any potential for damage to the rear section of the bed past the tires.

If there are any ideas for the rear bumper that you feel are a must have please let me know.

That is all for now....

[BlueBomber]

i have an idea for the start of a cheap bumper build. the rear bumper on my truck (1979 Ford F-100) was put on by the dealership when it was sold. its really thick and looks to be a good place to start if you were going to build your own bumper. maybe there are a few in the junkyard, i bet dodge and chevy did the same thing.

P.S. i love your truck build, its the reason i joined
here is a pic if you wont laugh........
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s184/1977celica/024-1.jpg

[Metcalf]

There is nothing wrong with an old shortbox Ford. I have one I keep on my parents place. Its a 78 F150 4x4 shorbox manual. Its sitting on 35s, swapped in a nice little 390 that refuses to die so I can install a 428 crank. It still starts and runs every time I go back home, sometimes a full year apart.

Thanks for joining, what are your expedition truck plans?

I am working up some rough stuff on my rear bumper for this thread that I will post up later tonight.

And I just had a friend loan me his sandblaster.....that bedliner stuff better watch out now!

[ntsqd]

Friend of mine with a long bed Ford built a rear bumper that wrapped under the bed, and slightly proud to the sheet metal, clear up to the rear of the rear wheel opening. In the side pieces near the rear he cut in large round holes and welded in a short section of same size piece of pipe. the ID of the hole and the length of the pipe were set so that a Hi-Lift jack's hook would index in the hole.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/ntsqd/74with37s.jpg
That's a "Hi-Boy" uncut on 37's.

[Metcalf]

Thats what I am talking about...nice ride!

I like how the rear bumper comes around and follows the factory body line. That ford has been cut in front a bit on the front corner of the wheel well.
I love the look and stance. That is almost exactly what I am going for on my truck. Simple, clean, and functional.

I am going to go get some decent pics of the bumper area of the truck so I can do some photoshoping of my ideas.

Its a bummer I got tied up last night with stuff, I hate it when I am too busy to work on the truck. I did get my lightweight filler and high build primer so I can start on the bodywork after I try the sandblaster out this weekend.

More later...

[Metcalf]

So here is my rough photoshop of my rear bumper idea to get a discussion going.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/dodgebumperone.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/dodgebumpertwo.jpg

Like I said, rough ideas....

The body will need to be cut, that is why I am thinking about this now. I plan to cut the body and weld in a .250 rod along the edge to give it some very good structure.

I am debating if I should go to the body line on the dodge. Its a logical place to go to, but it is pretty high up on the body and cannot be wrapped around the sides under the taillights that well. I think I am going to have to step the sides to get the main part of the bumper to go under the tailgate when it is down. This adds a little complexity but not that much.

The main structure of the bumper is going to be 2x2 and 2x4 box I think. The 3d features I have in mind, which I couldn't really get to come through on the 'chop pictures are going to be made out of 3/16" plate. I think this will be plenty strong enough, I am even debating 1/8" for the weight savings.

Any more ideas?

[Metcalf]

I wasn't happy with the 'chop so I did a light solid model.

This isn't anywhere near complete, but I think it helps you see the shape I see in my head better.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/solid3.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/solid5.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/solid6.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/solid7.jpg

The biggest things missing are the round corner details and some more 3D features on the ends. I basically want to have a triangle piece to seal up the bottom compound taper and another tied into the mud flap area to to the bottom piece. I think this will make the wrap around ends without having to tie them into the frame. The shackle hanger gets in the way of this, as does the planned 4" exhaust that will exit the side of the bumper. I will probably french in a section of 5" tube instead of just the 5" hole like in the pictures.

Feedback?

[Metcalf]

Ok, I think this gives a pretty good idea of the two pieces I want to add. I am having a Solidworks moment right now and cannnot get the 3D planes to work like I want.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/solid9.jpg

I think with these two plates added in this would be pretty strong. I could always run another plate to the main frame brackets.

I do worry about these 'buckets' collecting mud and water. Some drain holes are going to be in order I think.

Hopefully I can go to the junkyard this weekend and get another fuel door to french into the bedside for my aft auxiliary tank. I may try and use a Ramcharger fuel tank if I can find one ( and the 3 rear most crossmembers you need to install it ). I may also just build the tank so I can taper the back more and have clearance for my new exhaust.

Thats all for tonight....

[BlueBomber]

Thanks for joining, what are your expedition truck plans?


i mostly want to do some overnight trips around the memphis area. im still working on getting it in top shape. its 2wd with a 240c.i. inline six with a 3 on the tree. i plan on putting a 300c.i. inline six, a 4 or 5 speed, selectable locker, a cheapo topper. i want to make it as light as possible with some fiberglass body pannels and the use of plastics where ever i can. once it gets a little warmer around here, im going to be doing alot more work.

P.S. the truck's name is Blue Bomber, im just Michael.

[ntsqd]

I would delete the lower side panel and either bring the exhaust out under the bumper, or raise it up and come through the upper portion. Sherman also tied the front ends of those side pieces back to the frame.

For the lower parts of the rear portion, I would use long mitered rectangular tube. For a heavy truck 1/8" might be a bit thin depending on where in the bumper it is. I think 1/4" would be uncalled for except in areas where it might make contact with rocks, and then 3/8" thick might be appropriate if that is expected to happen fairly frequently. Laminating those areas would be better than carrying the extra thickness in the rest of the tube where it's not needed.


snip....

That ford has been cut in front a bit on the front corner of the wheel well.


Not cut, bent! Oopsie!!

[wely]

I like your design for the rear bumper. It is giving me ideas for a rear buper for my excursion. By the way what is the white stuff beside you truck? That sure is funny looking sand!

[Metcalf]

Thanks for all the comments.

ntsqd,

I want a little more 3D shape to the bumper than I can get easily with some cut box tubing. I need to find a place to tie the corners back into the frame that doesn't interfere with the shackle hanger. Other than the main brackets that tie into the frame you won't see anything thicker than 3/16 on the truck. I think its far to easy to build with heavier material ending up with a truck that is like 10,000lbs. Its already heavy, I don't need any more. I am hopping the the bumper is designed with enough clearance that I won't be smacking it that much. This is also not going to be a super rock crawler, I have other things for that. This truck is suppose to be able to do most everything without getting too carried away in one area....or cost a fortune.

Any more pictures of the 'bent' front fenders on that ford?

Wely,

Yeah, its called cold sand! Its funny its been in the high 50s and into the 60s here and the snow still hasn't melted off.....yeah...we get that much. Have you started in on your expedition yet?

Michael,

Have you thought about a winch for your ol' 2wd ford? You can get yourself into a lot of trouble even in a 2wd ford, especially if you install a locker. Any thoughts of going with a pre-runner type suspension....that could make for a fun fire road type expedition truck.

This weekend isn't going to produce much in the way of dodge work. I had to take a class for work this morning and have a pending trailer project that needs wrapped up. I am going to try out the sandblaster to see how it works on the bedliner tomorrow and maybe pound out a few dents. I also need to figure out if I am going to do any expanding of the wheel wells for bigger tires.

I am still torn between 37s and 35s. With some fender work I think I can run the 37s with even less height than I have now. I wouldn't mind dropping the truck about 1-2" and running some 37s. If I don't cut the fenders I am pretty much stuck with 35s AND I have to stay at the height I am at now.

Votes? 35s or 37s?

If I go with 35s I can keep the factory axles and 3.54 gears easy enough.

If I go with 37s I would need to go with 4.10s....and that might be easier if I just swap in a GM 14-bolt in the back. I can get the entire axle for less than most D70 gears. The 14-bolt is also the same width as the front axle, not 2.5" narrower like the factory D70.

I also need to start thinking about the front bumper and winch.

Ideas?

And the rocker guards.

Ideas?

[Metcalf]

This is a test post. i am on my new little super phone.

I did get to work on the dodge today a bit, i am kinda bummed that i didn't get more feedback on the project. I guess everyone is out enjoying the nice weather?

I did a little test with the sand blaster. The bedliner came right off. It's a little slow with my small compressor. I will have a pic up later.

I started prepping the replacement fender also. I was able to remove all the trim and badges. No rust so far.I stared at the fender for a long time trying to figure out what i am going to do to stretch the opening for a little more room.

The new tailgate is also detrimmed and on the truck. as i stripped the trim off i found some more dents but its still much better than my old one. It also opens and closes on both sides now!

I will try and get some pics up tonight.

post your thoughts! i enjoy the feedback.

[UHAULER]

I vote for keeping it as low as possible and running 35 or 37's. I have to make a choice for my truck, I want to keep it low so I'm debating 285's or 315's. Right now the 315's are winning:sombrero:

[Metcalf]

The truck isn't going any higher than it is, it might even come down an inch in the front. I am having one of those days where I just can't bring myself to cut the truck all up to open the wheel wells for 37s. 315s fit on the truck really nice right now. I think I could even bring the front down an inch or two.

Here is a bad 'chop of what I want to do....

This is a pretty typical dodge with 35s and a 4" lift...

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1251530.jpg

Here is the same truck...now a regular cab....with the fenders lengthened and the suspension dropped back down to stock.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/cutandlowered.jpg

I would rather have a nice low truck on bigger tires. If I could run 37s and drop 2" of suspension height that would be the best. That would be 1" lower than my current suspension and the 35s.

MMMMMMMmmmmmmmm

[Metcalf]

And just for fun.....

This is what it would look like with some 40s

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/cutandloweredon40s.jpg

[jdholder]

Bigger the tires/better the angles, approach, departure and breakover.

The only way my Excursion works at all is with the 40's.

I'd go big and cut cut cut.

[Metcalf]

I couldn't find a camper shell to chop on the picture, but this is pretty much what I want. Nice and low on 37s, tapered rear bumper, etc. This is also very close to the color I am going to paint the truck once the body work is finished.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/cutandlowered37s.jpg

Its nice to have something to look at to give me some perspective.

I swear this is going to be an expedition truck. One of the main intents with this project is to have a truck to do long trips out of the back of. I have been looking for a nice fiberglass camper shell that is only cab high. The only current production model I know of is one from Leer. Its a nice camper and has the options I want, but I don't know if I can spend that much money on it. I think I am going to have to look for something used. I think I can use anything off an older truck with a non-taper bed. I have a pretty sweet design for a roll up 2-cot system in the bed. This way I don't have to sacrifice the usefulness of an open bed area during the week.

[wely]

I think you shoulld look for one of the commercial truck tops that have a single or double door on the rear. That would help with some of you tailgate problems because you have to remove it.

[1speed]

I'm facing the same dilemma with my 01 3500 that I want to do a SRW on.

I vote 37's and cut! :wings: But oooh! 40's.

[BlueBomber]

Michael,

Have you thought about a winch for your ol' 2wd ford? You can get yourself into a lot of trouble even in a 2wd ford, especially if you install a locker. Any thoughts of going with a pre-runner type suspension....that could make for a fun fire road type expedition truck.


winch? probably the cheapest one i can find on Craigslist. ive been thinking about making it mount into a hitch reciver, then add a hitch reciver on the front. that way ican use the same winch front or back. i dont think im going to install a serious lift for some time. it already has factory "long arm" suspension ( twin I-beams). i think some bending and a 3"-4" lift coil in the front would be enough.

[Metcalf]

I have my eye on a Leer camper shell. I don't really like the contractor style ones. The camper shell isn't going to be on the truck all the time so I kinda need the tailgate. I did get the new tailgate on, it fits MUCH better, opens, closes, and everything.

Michael,

The multi-mount idea is nice. I have done a few of those over the years. The downside is that the winch generally sticks out too far and its a much bigger pain than you think to move it front to back. I would vote for a winch before the locker. Those old fords don't need much for suspension. If you want to go really cheap you could just redrill the front coil bucket and drop it down an inch or two. I had an old 2wd ford in high school for a few months. It was a $400 truck and boy was it fun to beat on. With the fenders cut or replaced you could get 35s on it easy. I would also plan on finding some nice and deep gears for the rear axle to make up for the 2wd and no low range.



The dodge is coming along. I think I finally worked up the nerve to cut and lengthen the fenders front and back. Its going to be more work but it will let me run 37s without any lift.Its also something unique that I haven't seen anyone do so it makes the truck very unique. I also have a trailer project going on right now so I can shoot back to my parents ranch and get my Willys!

I have started rounding up the steel I need to make the bumpers and rockers. A 4x8 sheet of 3/16" is $200 delivered to my work so that isn't too bad. I hope that will give me enough plate to make my rear 3D effects and my front bumper. I will also have to buy some 2x2 and 2x4 box.

On the bumpers instead of a round hole for the hi-lift jack I think I am going to mill in a t-slot. I think this will stand out a little less. I like little stealthy mods.

Once I get this trailer out of the way and Easter Jeep is over I can concentrate more on the bodywork. I am going to do the body work one panel at a time at least to the primer sealer stage. I will most likely shoot the entire truck in paint at once, or at least the exterior.

I'm off to measure some stuff.

[BlueBomber]

Michael,

The multi-mount idea is nice. I have done a few of those over the years. The downside is that the winch generally sticks out too far and its a much bigger pain than you think to move it front to back.
how is it too big? is it too big to keep on the front or back, or is it too big to mount when i need it? i dont mind if its a pain to move. i just like the fact that i can use it front and back without buying two.
I would vote for a winch before the locker.
yeah, the locker would be nice, but a winch will be installed first. i will probably ned it more anyways.
Those old fords don't need much for suspension. If you want to go really cheap you could just redrill the front coil bucket and drop it down an inch or two.
i would go with a cheapo setup, but my truck needs new springs anyways.
I had an old 2wd ford in high school for a few months. It was a $400 truck and boy was it fun to beat on. With the fenders cut or replaced you could get 35s on it easy. I would also plan on finding some nice and deep gears for the rear axle to make up for the 2wd and no low range.
maybe at some point. i have some other projects that i want to get done before i put something on my truck that will let me get in MORE trouble:eek:

i really like my truck, but i have alot of work to do before i get it to where i'm ok with taking it more thatn a couple miles off road.

[benjamin]

Metcalf.....I had to do alot of spot repairs on my truck and found that a 4-41/2 inch knotted wire brush for an angle grinder worked great.
I had 3-4 paint jobs on mine and they cleaned down to bare metal fairly quick.
Try McMaster for the brushes they hold up better than what you'll find at HD etc..
If you go this route I can't stress enough the importance of good safety glasses/shield and be careful of anyone whatching nearby.
This looks like a great build.

Dennis

[Metcalf]

Thanks for the tip. I gave it a try with a non-knotted brush. It isn't really fast enough on the bedliner covered areas, that stuff sucks! I will have to do something on the cab though, maybe a combo of some stripper and some wire brush action. I don't want to take the entire thing apart to sandblast it.

I have to say I love living in the southwest. So far there is ZERO rust on the truck. That makes mods to the body so much easier!

Tonight was trailer night. I made a lot of progress on the trailer which is good because that will leave more time for the truck.

I measured up the front frame, grill, bumper area to see what I want to do. I think I can sneak a winch behind a pretty slim front bumper. I hate winch bumpers that stick way out. I think I can get the new front bumper to stick out a little less than the stock bumper. The ends will then be tapered to gain some more clearance at the tires. I will add a tight fitting grill guard to keep the dear out of the radiator. I also need some decent tow points and some hi-lift jack points.

[absolute]

hey for the bed liner... brush some brake fluid on it, let it soak then use a scraper or the knot brush to remove. One of the PO decided to go cheap on floor covering,its a PITA but a bit faster than just scraping. I just spent the last couple of weeks on and off doing the exact same thing on my CJ floors.

Do a trial area before you commit.


Nick

[Metcalf]

I will give the brake fluid a try on the roof area of the cab. That is the largest area that I have to do without the sandblaster.

[ntsqd]

Thanks for all the comments.

Any more pictures of the 'bent' front fenders on that ford?

The only other pics that I could find:

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/ntsqd/host/TruckRearwithTank.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/ntsqd/host/TruckRear.jpg

The reasoning behind the round Hi-Lift hole with the tube to locate against the hook on the end of the lifting spur was so that one could push the truck forwards or backwards off the jack if that was what was needed to get unstuck.

[Metcalf]

That is a good idea about being able to push the truck forwards or backwards off the jack.

My trailer side project is almost done. All I have left to do is screw the boards down after the girlfriend finishes staining them. I think they will be dry enough on Sunday. I'm off tomorrow to find some cheap trailer tires. Once the tires are on all I need to do is change the trailer wiring connector to the round style from the flat style. Then she is done.

So its back to the Doitall soon!

I need to order a stick of 2x4" box for the rear bumper. Instead of using 2x2 for the main rear crossmember I am going to lay the 2x4 down flat for the rear portion of the bumper and stand the side parts up. This should give me more strength for the rear hitch without needing a lot of extra bracing. I also think the 2x4" stuff will go deeper under the tailgate area sealing that off, or provide slightly more of a step depending on the position front to back.

The list on this truck is kinda piling up so I just have to keep working on it a little every time I can. Here is the short list....

-Bodywork and paint
*2nd fuel filler door
*lengthened fenders front and back
-Rear bumper ( with required bodywork on the bed corners )
-Front bumper with grill guard and winch
-Rocker guards with kick out tubes
-Camper shell
-folding bed system for two in the back with some kind of storage system
-On board air of some kind

The long term list is far far longer....

37x12.5x17s on 17x8" wheels of some flavor.
4.10 gearing
Most likely a 14-bolt rear axle to get said 4.10 gearing in the rear.
Crossover steering conversion with ram assist
Hydroboost brake system
Rear disc brakes
Transfer case mounted parking brake using the stock foot pedal
Twin stick cable shifter for the transfer case.
Hi-clearance transfer case cross member/belly pan
Some kind of locking diffs, front and rear
New seats for the cab
Custom front and rear springs ( after the truck is done )
Long travel rear airbags to allow me to have nice soft ride and carry weight
Nice shocks and bump stops

I am sure I am forgetting a lot of stuff I would like to do...

And I still scared myself.

[ntsqd]

What I laid out for the Sub:
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/ntsqd/Suburban/rearbumperassem1.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/ntsqd/Suburban/rearbumperassem2.jpg

Specific goal was to get a working surface as this Sub has barn doors. The bumper itself is all sheet stock except for the main tube and the diagonals parallel to the receiver socket.

[BlueBomber]

any updates????

[Metcalf]

I guess this really isn't an update on the truck project but the Doitall had to earn its keep this last weekend!

Since relocating to Colorado I have needed to go back to my parents ranch and pick up my old Willy's MB. Easter Jeep Safari was coming up soon so I decided to take a Friday off work and make the trip back to Idaho.

The drive up was easy. I split it into a long day and a short day. I drove until about 1am friday night and made it just north of Salt lake, Utah. The truck did really well on the ride up towing my new free trailer empty. I ended up getting 19.4,17.2, and 17.69 mpg on the way up, 90% of it at 70 or better. I didn't think that was too bad at all for this old truck. Its shaped like a brick and isn't the lightest truck on the road.

I left to go back home to Colorado and hit some of the worst weather I have ever driven in. Then throw in some tires without the most traction, snow, whiteouts, 40mph winds, freezing rain and more! It was a test of patience and fortitude for sure. I made sure to snap some pics....

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010217.jpg

This was the typical road for about the first 200 miles. It was as slick as anything I have ever seen. The truck did well. Sometimes the limited slip rear helped and sometimes it hurt. The Cummins, stock as it is, has more than enough torque to break the tires loose while lugging it in 4th. You also have to watch the compression braking on downshifts when its slick....the rear end likes to break loose and so does the trailer!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010220.jpg

The new 'free' trailer tracked really nice and the light little Willys isn't hard to tow at all. I would think the total combo wasn't over 3500lbs. One thing this truck HAS to be able to do is tow this little guy around.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010223.jpg

I pulled over to check over everything during a rare break in the weather on I-15. It was nice and sunny for all of about 15 minutes. Once I was on !-15 the snow cleared up but the wind also picked up. I was bucking about a 30-40mph head wind for a little over 200 miles. This combined with the fact that I was trying to keep up with traffic lead to my worst tank at 14.6 miles per gallon. The wind was so bad that the truck would not maintain 5th gear during the worst winds!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010225.jpg

Can you say FREEZING RAIN!

The weather during day two from Spanish Fork to Moab and then home to soutwest colorado wasn't that bad....at least compared to day one of the return trip! I did have a major breakdown of sorts....

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010227.jpg

I came across some road construction on highway 6 just after I left in the morning. I slowed way down to navigate the bridge being build over some railroad tracks. Needless to say they might have wanted to warn people about the 12" ledge right across the lane! I didn't even see it coming. The hit almost knocked the wind out of me! Then I heard that sharp metallic sound behind me. My neck snapped up to see the nose of the jeep fall behind the truck! The trailer now disconnected from the truck skidded to the right and bounced off the barrier wall before crossing the other lane. I have to be the luckiest guy alive. There was not a soul in the other lane! The Willys and trailer slammed off the paved roadway which had to have been another 10" ledge. All I could do was watch in horror screaming 'Just don't Roll, JUST DON"T ROLL!!!!' The trailer came within about 10feet of going down a 15 tall embankment that would have caused the entire mess to roll FOR SURE! I yanked the truck off the side of the road after the trailer before everything came to a rest....

The large ledge in the middle of the road caused the pin that holds the stinger in the receiver hitch to shear. The safety chain also snapped and was never to be found again. I was able to jack and crib the front of the trailer up enough to get the truck reconnected. The trailer had skidded on the stinger so the tongue was unhurt. Once some of the construction guys had shown up I was able to bum a bolt and nut for a replacement stinger pin. They also had a come-along and I was able to straighten the trailer jack out a bit. All in all I was back up and running in about 30-45 minutes. I cautiously drove onto the next down to pick up a replacement safety chain. The entire thing rattled me a bit more than I would have liked.....every frost heave or bump in the road got my blood boiling. I tried not to yell at the construction workers right after everything happened but I know I came across pretty agitated!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010228.jpg

The whole trip wore me out a bit more than I would have liked! I had planned to stop in Moab and unload the jeep for a little fun but I was just to dang tired by that point! That will have to wait till next week!

The truck did pretty good on the way home other than the one tank of fuel fighting the headwinds. The other tank was 17.4 mpg. I still haven't fueled up since moab but I suspect it will be the same or better.

The truck is far from done and perfect for sure.....here are some loose comments on modification ideas from the drive back. Sometimes its nice to have some time to just drive and think...

-The seats need upgraded. The old bench seat is on its last leg. Towards the end of the trip I found myself stuffing a sweatshirt behind my lower back for more support.

-The gearing in the truck is ok. I am running 3.54s and 315/75r16 tires with the factory 5 speed manual. It actually seems like 5th isn't high enough overall on the interstate at 75mph. I would also like a shorter split between most of the gears. I don't know what is going to be the best course to take with the planned 37" tires. I did a little math and the short ratio G56 6-speed out of a newer dodge cummins might work really well with the 3.54s and 37s.

-Power and mileage. I was pretty happy with the mileage overall. I didn't baby the truck at all and got fair mileage. I think the truck could use some more power to help the gearing...or different gearing to help the power. I have my eye on some engine mods! I would like to get a nice reliable 20mpg even while towing the Willys. I have to wonder if I lowered the Willys down on the trailer a bit and had a aerodynamic cover like some of the newer snowmobile trailers if I couldn't pick up a little bit?

Body work on the dodge is starting soon! First up is sandblasting and fender modifications....

[Tree]

I enjoyed reading that! Great pictures.... looks like you got a nice truck on your hands. Good luck with it! :costumed-smiley-007

[Metcalf]

You must be able to see the inner beauty.....

[Tree]

You must be able to see the inner beauty.....

LOL I seem to do that... but seriously it just looks like a strong, do everything with out complaining truck... lot better than todays pickups in my opinion.

:costumed-smiley-007

[Metcalf]

Thanks, that is definately what this project is all about.

The other thing i like about this truck is that everything is rebuildable... wheel bearings, brakes, etc. Also, it uses parts that are common across a broad range of trucks. The np205, dana 60 front,and dana 70 rear have been used by all the big 3 through there 70s and 80s truck line. That makes finding parts in the outback of beyond a little more likely.

[BlueBomber]

ok, to answer a few questions. covering the jeep and lowering it on the trailer will help. i would get a cheap-o tarp from the hardware store and see if i can find some spare tires and wheels for the jeep. regular street tires could work. but i would look for the small spare tires that are usually on newer stuff. that would make the jeep much lower while you tow it, then when you get where you're going you can just swap wheels to your off-road tires (not the only way to lower it, just an idea i had). i was also looking into making a removable front air dam for my truck. just an air dam from the junkyard and a few wing-nuts. i think i could get a few more MPG's from my truck, and have it come off in a few minutes for clearence.
as for more power, i know nothing about diesels. sorry. keep the updates going, i love your truck.:drool:

edit.... i'm currently making a bed cover from a sheet of plastic, the kind you put on your roof when you have a leak (like this http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100651795&N=10000003+90327). im still working on how to secure it. and no i didnt pay $150, im using something alot cheaper that my dad had in his shed from when their rood did leak. like i said before, just an idea i had.

[Metcalf]

Well its time to get going again on this thing....

The list of little things has been a long tedious one, not the fun make a huge difference in how the truck looks kinda stuff....

-I changed the oil. 3 gallons is just enough to get it to the middle of the 'safe' zone on the dipstick! Heck, I think the filter held more oil than the girlfriends Jetta!

-I found and fixed a really annoying noise coming for the front end. It took a while to find but it ended up being a brake pad slightly, though not all the time, rubbing on the squealers.

-I also removed those stupid chrome hob cover things from the front wheels. I hate those things. You can't feel the bearing hub to see if its warm, cold, or too hot. That is a VERY good indicator for wheel bearing condition. I still need to rip the rear ones out.

-I replaced the last leaking seal under the truck that I could find. It shouldn't leak anything anymore. For my friends that are reading...yet I think I own a vehicle that doesn't leak! It was the rear output seal on the transfer case.

-I finally un-bolted the goose neck hitch in the bed. I won't be needing it so all that nice 1/2" thick steel is going to make the main frame brackets/clevis mounts/recovery points for my front and rear bumpers that are coming.

-I cut a patch panel out of the inside of the old tailgate to fill the hole left under the goose neck hitch in the bed. I think I can get it welded up good enough that I can spray some bedliner over it.

-I also made a nice little adapter sleeve for a new air cleaner project I have coming up....

And last but not least I started laying out and modifying the new front passenger side fender. I am lengthening the fenders so that I can run around a 37" tire with chains if needed without adding any more suspension lift to the truck. I hope it will also really set the truck off from stock. Its going to be a lot of work but I think it will be really cool when its done.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/IMAG0008.jpg

This is the outside of the fender. I am lengthening the fender a total of 6 inches, 3" front and back. I will be adding two new sections of fender lip so that I can keep at least one of the inner fender bolts in the stock location. I hope this will help me rebuild the inner fenders easier.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/IMAG0009.jpg

This are area in the middle is where the one top bolt is for the inner fender.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/IMAG0010.jpg

This is a little better detail of the front fender section, this is the easy one.
The bottom of the front corner of the fender is also getting bobbed down for a little more clearance. The new front bumper will also wrap around and provide protection in this area. The new bumper will be shorter top to bottom than this section....that's why its getting cut. More clearance overall.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/IMAG0011.jpg

The backside of the fender gets a little more interesting. There are two stiffening brackets that need to be modified or repositioned. Not a big deal, but a little more work. In the end it should all look very close to stock.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/aftersectioning.jpg

Here is a rough 'chop of what the new sectioned front fender will look like. Its not going to be a huge difference, but it should allow some 37s to fill the wheel wells nicely without having to have any more lift on the truck, maybe even a little less than it has now. I think the front could stand to loose an inch from where it sits now to level the truck out, especially with anything in the bed or on the trailer.

I am hoping to do both front outer and inner fenders in the next week or two. I am waiting on some new hand shear/nibbler things to make some of the cuts a lot easier and efficient. I have to do a lot of sections on the truck! There are about 8 planed right now. The one on the front of the drivers side rear with the gas door should be really fun! That is going to have to have a dog leg in the section!

I try and do a little every day.

[BlueBomber]

AWESOME!!!!!!!!! glad your still going on the project.

[1speed]

I'm glad you are practicing on your fenders. When I wear out my new 35's I want to go to 37's and you can do mine. :sombrero: I wanted 37's this time but I was afraid they would rub and with everything I have planned for my truck right now I didn't want to tackle that if they did rub.

[Metcalf]

Slow progress is still progress....

I still didn't get my shear/nibbler things in the mail, but I didn't want to waste the weekend by not working on the truck.

I was able to start cutting on my loose front fender that was in the my previous post. I was able to get the front section done by using only a jig saw, a cut off wheel, and a cordless drill.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/IMAG0012.jpg

I was able to get the section out cleanly without too much fuss. I was able to use the marker light hole to start the vertical cuts.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/IMAG0013.jpg

Once I made a few small holes to form a slot to start the jig saw I as able to make the horizontal cut along the top cleanly. A small slice up on the 'do not remove' section that has the reference bolt for the inner fender, and I was able to remove the panel.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/IMAG0014.jpg

Magnets are your friend! Ace hardware has a nice selection. I picked up a bunch for like $5-8. They allow you to re-install the panel in the position it needs to be in for welding. They also allow you to see the lineup before you weld and work on any problem areas.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/IMAG0017.jpg

This morning I got everything into the garage. I was so not working on the living room floor last night with the SO being out of town :) I got the low edge of the fender off. That required the cut off wheel on the grinder to work through a double thick area where there is a stiffing bracket along the front lower edge. Here is the panel in its new position, this time with the edges sanded down to bare metal for the welding. A worn down flap wheel on the grinder and a light touch works great for that! I had to fix a few areas that where off a little bit, but the magnets really make it easy to do modifications like that. I had to clean up one corner with a file and smooth out the horizontal line. I got it pretty dang close with the jig saw!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/IMAG0018.jpg

Here is the panel tack welded into place. I use .025 wire for this with c25. The secret is taking your time and moving around on the panel as much as you can. You don't want to try and run a bead on butt welded sheet metal!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/IMAG0019.jpg

tack-move-tack-move-tack-move-tack-move-tack-move-tack.

I try and move at least 6" or move between tacks. This seems to keep the metal cooler and helps oil canning and down pull. I would rather have it low than high though.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/IMAG0020.jpg

After I got the panel welded in enough. IE I needed to move on before I burned through in any more places. I had a few thin sections that had about a 1/16" gap that where being a pain. I couldn't find my copper/brass backing plate anywhere, so I decided to work on the low edge of the fender.

I didn't want to just leave a cut edge on the lower part of the fender. I wanted a nice smooth edge. I started by cutting the corner with a pair of tin snips.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/IMAG0021.jpg

After that with a pair of flange pliers I was able to work the edge over with a little help from a hammer and a block. In the front portion I had to feather cut the edge because to the compound angle. I had to make some little pie cuts with the tin snips to get everything to line up ok. I made a few little mistakes but it turned out pretty well. This will all be behind the new front bumper anyways. All the little pie cuts and tabs will get welded together also. This detail made the front fender a lot more rigid after I cut it all apart.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/IMAG0023.jpg

So here is how far I got today. The front panel is back in and the lower edge is turned over. I was able to get the rear section started, but I really need the nibblers to do that section. I also need to make the patch panels for the lengthened section in front and weld that in.

This is the most complex body work on the truck. The front fenders are mostly a pain, but I think it will be worth it in the end. The rear should be cake compared to this! In the front I will also be modifying the inner fender to match the outer fender...kinda. It will not really be sectioned like the front, but modified a bit along the outer bolt edge where the it joins the outer fender.

When its all said and done it should look very stock and most people should miss the modification all together. I think they will catch the lower front of the fender being cut off, but the opening being longer....people aren't going to see that one right away.....

[Metcalf]

Tires.....what to do for tires?

I want something in the 37" range that won't cost a forture, strong, aggressive, unique, etc.

What does everyone think about this style tire?

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/000_0076_renamed_16093.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/jbtires640x480.jpg

They are 325/85r16 Michelin XML's

They spec out to be a 38" tall by 13" wide tire that will fit on a 16" rim. Since I already have the 16" aluminum rims on the truck, and the factory 16" steel wheels, I am leaning toward finding something that will work with the rims I have. They are also very affordable. You can get them from this place...

http://www.100dollarman.com/tires.html

They are $500 for a set of five. So....$80 a tire. Yes they are used, yes they are only 75% tread or so, but for $80 a tire! Unfortunately he is out of stock right now.

Thoughts anyone?

[Metcalf]

Dang slow USPS! My nibblers still aren't here! I hope they show up by this weekend so I can finish at least one of the front fenders!

I have started to see a little payback with all my little projects on the truck like the oil and fluids change. I have been driving the truck back and forth to work a little more than normal so I have been getting a better feeling for mileage. I commute about 50 miles a day to work. I have to go from about 6500 feet over an 8000 foot pass coming and going and the roads are 65mph all the way. I generally run 67ish all the way. The truck will pull the pass in 5th at those speeds. If I get behind someone slow I have to grab 4th and keep it about 60mph up the hill.

Today the truck returned a best of 21.7 miles to the gallon!

I don't think you can go wrong with that on a truck that is pushing 35" tires with 3.54 gears, the aerodynamics of a brick, and about 6500lbs of weight!

Stay tuned for more fender work this weekend. I am hopefully picking up a spare inner fender for the really dented side. I hope this will speed things along a bit there.

[Darwin]

I know you are doing a lot of fender fabrication work, but I would be curious to see if those 38" tires with little lift will fit. Definitely keep the pictures coming!

I was looking at the 37" radials but I think I will have to go with a sky 5" shackle lift to get them to fit on my f-250.

[Rot Box]

Awesome project! I've just started on my 92 CTD 5speed (reg cab, 200K and 4.10 gears).... RIP Toyota Hilux.

What front springs are you running with those 315's? Mine is stock right now and it rides unbelievably poor even on gravel roads. Alcan's are out of the budget, but Skyjacker 4" fronts, and a rear shackle flip with GM 63's is in order. Right now it sounds like it will explode at 70mph with 265's so 35's or larger should be about perfect in my case.

For an even $200 I just had my valves adjusted, injector pump timed and had the fuel delivery increased on the IP. It is honestly a whole new truck :wings: I would highly recomend you doing the same to yours. It starts better, runs smoother, runs much cooler and has a TON more power. Also if i keep my EGT's below 600 degrees and my speed at 53mph or less I will get over 25mpg.

You have probably already heard most of this but in case you have not: Fill the Getrag up with an additional quart of oil. You can add it from the top PTO cover bolt right above the normal fill plug this will eliminate any chance of running it dry. I use Royal Purple 5W-30 for the peace of mind. Shift them slow the syncros and shift linkage doesn't like to be hot rodded at all. It would be a good idea to install a temp guage as well if you plan on pulling some weight.

These trucks also have the 21cm housing on the exhaust side of the turbo--they are way unefficient. The 14cm housing ($150-$200) upgrade provides a lot quicker spool up which is great for offroad as well as stop and go traffic.

I would also flush the power steering fluid and replace it with a name brand synthetic and install a cooler. The engines weight get the fluid really hot and leads to problems down the road... I had it happen on my 92 and 01 at the same time this month--no fun at all.

Anyway sorry for the marithon post. I can't wait to see how this truck comes along :coffeedrink: Can't wait to get going on mine!

[Metcalf]

Darwin,

I think the 38s will fit. I am opening up the fender openings by 6", 3" front and 3" back. Keeping the same wheels I could go to a 40-41" tire and still keep the same clearance on the front and rear of the fender. The top of the tire will be getting close at those kinda heights.

I also bobbed off the front lower portion of the fender and that is going to free up another little bit.

I do hope it all works out like I want! Its not a flex monster and never will be so I don't have to work around that too much.

Rot Box,

I have to say I love these old trucks too!

Awesome project! I've just started on my 92 CTD 5speed (reg cab, 200K and 4.10 gears).... RIP Toyota Hilux.

I wish I had 4.10s for the bigger tires. I haven't run anything smaller for tires yet with the 3.54s. I think I am going to throw on the set of 265s that came with the truck on the stock wheels to just get a feel for the difference. I would like to see what that did for mileage. I honestly can't believe that the truck is getting over 20mpg pushing the 315s with 3.54s.

What front springs are you running with those 315's? Mine is stock right now and it rides unbelievably poor even on gravel roads. Alcan's are out of the budget, but Skyjacker 4" fronts, and a rear shackle flip with GM 63's is in order. Right now it sounds like it will explode at 70mph with 265's so 35's or larger should be about perfect in my case.

The truck came with a set of 3-4" lift front springs that where made by re-arching the factory springs and adding a leaf or two. They ride TERRIBLE and are a little too tall in the front. I am most likely going to treat myself to a set of Alcan springs on all four corners after I get the truck to its final buildup stage. I think it will be worth the money. They are also fairly local to me here in Colorado. I would also like to have the rear springs built without blocks and perhaps a little longer by moving the spring hanger and shackle hangers to the next longest position by using one of the factory bolt holes for alignment.

I think 37s would be just about perfect with 4.10s. It just sucks that the trucks wheel openings are so small. That is why I am lengthening the fenders. I don't like lifts, but I like big tires :)

Honestly I would trade you my 3.54s for your 4.10s! :)

For an even $200 I just had my valves adjusted, injector pump timed and had the fuel delivery increased on the IP. It is honestly a whole new truck I would highly recomend you doing the same to yours. It starts better, runs smoother, runs much cooler and has a TON more power. Also if i keep my EGT's below 600 degrees and my speed at 53mph or less I will get over 25mpg.

I need to adjust my valves for sure. I think that would make a difference.

Did you have the pump timing 'bumped' or set to stock specs?

I haven't touched the pump yet. That opens a whole new can of worms for me. I have some engine mods planned for sure, but they are down on the list right now. The short list is.

-Red Oak Diesel injectors. They promise 350/800 at the wheels and +3 mpg.
-4" downpipe and exhaust with nelson muffler
-Huge Amsoil air filer with 4.5" intake tube and cold air box
-04.5-07 HE351cw turbo
-3" intercooler tubes
-Custom intake horn that I have designed ( lots and lots of flow )
-Pump Tuning

The truck doesn't like the 55-50mph range right now. That is a little too high of gears for 5th and too low for 4th. I need to find a better overall gear ratio for the truck.

You have probably already heard most of this but in case you have not: Fill the Getrag up with an additional quart of oil. You can add it from the top PTO cover bolt right above the normal fill plug this will eliminate any chance of running it dry. I use Royal Purple 5W-30 for the peace of mind. Shift them slow the syncros and shift linkage doesn't like to be hot rodded at all. It would be a good idea to install a temp guage as well if you plan on pulling some weight.

I did that already. It made a world of difference. My tranny doesn't like between 60-65 in 5th right now. I can get it to groan a bit too easy. I think slightly lower gears would help that.

These trucks also have the 21cm housing on the exhaust side of the turbo--they are way unefficient. The 14cm housing ($150-$200) upgrade provides a lot quicker spool up which is great for offroad as well as stop and go traffic.

I thought about that.

For just a little more money I think I am going to install the he351cw listed above. They are about the least expensive turbo you can get for a performance upgrade. They will support around 400hp without breaking a sweat. I plan on building a block off plug for the electronic solenoid port and shimming the wastegate. They are suppose to produce 30-35psi with enough fuel and keep the egt's in check at under 1000 degrees. They also use a full 4" downpipe.

I would also flush the power steering fluid and replace it with a name brand synthetic and install a cooler. The engines weight get the fluid really hot and leads to problems down the road... I had it happen on my 92 and 01 at the same time this month--no fun at all.

That's a good point.

I have visions of a ram assist system with the box in the 2wd position and crossover steering.

I have also been thinking about adding a hydroboost brake booster.

Oh the list is long!

Anyway sorry for the marithon post. I can't wait to see how this truck comes along Can't wait to get going on mine!

No problem. You should start a thread on your truck! What direction are you going to head with it?



In other news.

My nibblers are still MIA.

I found a nice fiberglass camper shell for $100 that I might go pick up this weekend AND HOPEFULLY in the same trip I can snag a set of those 325 michelin tires that I found used for sale! It could be a lot of driving this weekend!

[jcbrandon]

...I honestly can't believe that the truck is getting over 20mpg pushing the 315s with 3.54s....

It may not be. Unless the speedo has been recalibrated, the truck thinks it is travelling more miles than it actually is. You might want to check it against a GPS or a known distance.

No matter what, you've got a way-cool project. From one full-size Dodge owner to another, two thumbs up.

[Metcalf]

I used a GPS to check the odometer and speedometer and came up with a ratio to use. I have done some GPS trip checks and found this accurate to within 1 mile over 200 miles of distance.

[Darwin]

Cool, can't wait to see pics with 38" tires.

[Metcalf]

Saturday update.....

The guy that had the 325s never got back to me so my trip got but back by a week. I really hope he contacts me before next weekend. I was able to secure the purchase of a nice LEER camper shell for the truck to pick up next weekend no matter if the tires come through or not. Its the 1st gen dodge specific cab high camper shell so its worth the trip. That is unless anyone is driving out from California to the Colorado area between now and then and wants to save me the trip :)

I couldn't let the day go to waste so I worked on the project for a few hours. I was able to get a good ways along on the fender that I have been working on. My nibblers showed up yesterday so I had to put them to use. I was able to finish cutting the rear panel, removed the 3" section ( same as the front ), welded it back together and even made one of the patch panels. All that took me about 3 hours.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010230.jpg

As you can see I am not working with super fancy tools or anything. I guess the only thing kinda out of the ordinary is the welder.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010233.jpg

Here is the patch panel that I made and welded in.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010232.jpg

Here is the lower rear corner. I was able keep both lower mounting bolts! I didn't think I was going to be able to. I did loose one of the lower mounting bolts for the inner fender edge but I don't think I could have used it anyways.

Its amazing how my more clearance I am going to be able to have with a stock looking truck at very close to stock height! With a little tiny work the 3rd gen dodge trucks can run 37s at near stock height....now I will be able too also!

I wish I could find a set of the 325s! I have even been looking for some surplus ones.....no luck so far.

I have been thinking about perhaps running surplus 37" hummer tires and recentered hummer wheels? This would be a little more expensive then the 325s but still less money than buying 37s off the shelf. Tires are expensive!

[Metcalf]

The camper shell and tire trip is on for this weekend!

I ended up finding a nice cab high fiberglass Leer camper shell. Just the one I wanted!

AND

I ended up lining up that set of 325/85r16 Michelin XML tires. I found a set of 4 so I will have to find something for a spare. Perhaps something narrower and tall to save some space in back. These are a little bigger than I had planned at 38.5" tall (no load height) but they will work well. They are strong enough for the how heavy this truck is ( 7k or so ) without breaking a sweat. The steel belted sidewall is going to be nice insurance also.

I'm going to be a driving fool this weekend, and the truck has to earn its keep!

I am going to be trading the existing tires/wheels on the truck ( the 315s ) out for the stock rims and some 265/75r16s that came with the truck when I bought it. I am trying to get a better feeling for the gearing I might need in the truck. I currently have 3.55s and am wondering what to change to. 4.10s will put be back to where I am currently. 4.56s would be the same as the 265s and 3.55s combo. I am interested to see what this is going to do to the mileage on the truck.

The truck really isn't getting any taller other than the added tire radius ( about 2.25" ). I might even drop the front suspension down 1" to level the truck.

The tires are going to be taller and heavier, but the cross section is going to be about the same at 325mm vs 315mm. We will see....

[Darwin]

Can't wait for pics. Isn't the recommended max speed for the XML's 62 mph?

[Metcalf]

max rated speed is at max load, 5000lbs per tire.

I think I can press the speed a bit with about 2000lbs per tire.

[Rot Box]

I think 37s would be just about perfect with 4.10s. It just sucks that the trucks wheel openings are so small. That is why I am lengthening the fenders. I don't like lifts, but I like big tires :)

Honestly I would trade you my 3.54s for your 4.10s! :)

Did you have the pump timing 'bumped' or set to stock specs?

You should start a thread on your truck! What direction are you going to head with it?



With 37's and 4.10's figure about 1800rpm (VE pump Cummins rated peak torque) at 65mph. I run mine at 55mph with 4.10's and 265's (1800rpm) and I always see at least 24mpg driving to work and back. That being said 4.10's and 37's would be the ultimate combo :bike_rider:

I definatly would have traded you gears/axles a few months ago before I decided to build this truck, but now I'm happy I stuck with what I have. I was actually trying to trade my brother for his D61's because his have the 3.07 ratio wich would be really nice for a daily driver with a five speed :drool:

I had the pump bumped, but I'm not sure just how far they took it... It has a lot of turbo lag, and smoke when I first take off but that should go away when i get the 14cm housing. Although once the turbo spools it really sets me back in the seat and the smoke clears up.

As far as direction I don't know just how far I can take it. I don't ever expect it to handle the rocks nearly as good as my Hilux, but thats okay. Having my first kid (1 year old girl :)) the build will revolve around camping and exploring so my family can all have a good time outdoors. I'm almost done with my winch bumper, and next I'm planning on going with a 4" max front lift (I also like to keep them as low as possible), a shackle flip in the rear and probably GM 63" rear springs. Then Re-centered 12 bolt H1 wheels with some 37" MTR's. All that plus an oldschool aluminum shell and a front Detroit locker are all I really want, but we'll see how far I get...

Anyway I'll quit taking up space on your thread, and start my own once I get everything together :elkgrin:

[Metcalf]

Well dang that was a lot of driving!

I drove out to California and back to fetch some tires and a camper shell for the project.

The shell ended up being much nicer than I hoped. It has a carpet liner on the inside, sliding windows with screens on the side, and a fixed front window. Its not perfect...the struts on the rear glass need replaced as well as the rear lock system but for $100 I couldn't complain at ALL! It is a Snugtop and fits the truck like a glove, especially or just setting in on the truck and bolting it down.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010236.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010237.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010238.jpg

And you can see my new tires in the last one!

The tires are 325/85r16 Michelin XMLs as I mentioned earlier.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010239.jpg

They have 18 or 19/32nds. New they only have 21/32s They are in great shape. They are big, heavy, and tough as nails!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010243.jpg

Here is a teaser pic! Yup, those are going on there!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010244.jpg

I am glad I sectioned as much as I did out of the fender! It looks like everything is going to end up working very well! They are a little bigger than I had planned originally, but for the money they are an excellent choice I think! Its not often you can get a set of 38.5" tall ( no really that tall! ) tires with this much tread for $600 for a set of 4. I couldn't even get 2 new 37s for that!

Well onto the trip report....

I drove, drove, drove some more, drove again, then drove, drove, and drove.

The truck did great!

This is the first time I have had the truck on the road without the trailer in tow. This was a nice little 2000 mile fuel mileage test! This truck keeps exceeding my expectations the more I tinker with it.

On the drive down it was pretty windy heading across 40 going over towards California. It wasn't as windy on the way back, though I think it was still blowing a bit. Check out these mileage numbers!

186.6 miles, 09.92 gallons, 18.8mpg (top off, hauling water, commuting )
182.2 miles, 09.10 gallons, 20.0mpg (Durango to Gallup, windy, traffic )
186.0 miles, 10.22 gallons, 18.2mpg (Gallup to Flagstaff, windy, 70-75 )
149.6 miles, 06.35 gallons, 23.5mpg (Flagstaff to Kingman, windy, 63mph? )
213.6 miles, 12.27 gallons, 17.4mpg (Kingman to Barstow, WINDY!!!!)
216.9 miles, 11.16 gallons, 19.4mpg (Barstow, Crestline, Lebec , hell traffic)
205.0 miles, 09.74 gallons, 21.1mpg (Lebec, Paso Robles, Lost hills )
380.1 miles, 18.13 gallons, 21.0mpg (Lost Hills to Kingman, 63mph!!! )
147.7 miles, 06.70 gallons, 22.0mpg (Kingman to Flagstaff, 63mph )
268.3 miles, 11.01 gallons, 24.3mpg (Flagstaff to Cortez, 63mph!!!!!, Best!)

2136 miles total (That was with a tank of commuting and work )
104.6 gallons total

20.42 mpg average for the entire trip + a commuting/working week.

With a little trial and error I found out that holding the truck to 63mph netted the best mileage. It takes a little bit of patience on the interstate, and if the traffic is bad enough you just can't go this slow. Once the traffic thins out its well worth it to slow down and just lay back.

I think there is more left in this truck for mileage too. The motor is bone stock as far as I know other than the 3" straight pipe.

It will be interesting to see what the big new tires do to the mileage?

[Rot Box]

Oh wow that's going to look good with those tires! :drool:

You just can't beat the fuel milage and power of these big trucks. No Dodge 318, 360, 440, or V10 could even come close to those numbers! :elkgrin:

[dieselcruiserhead]

Metcalf very cool thread and boy those are some miles... There is some noise with the Cummins but boy they are infectious. Congrats on your build and work -- it should turn out excellently. It's one of my favorite old trucks! I have done two 4BTs now, I own the 4BTswaps.com forums and there are some very neat characters with your type of approach as well. Very interested to see how it all turns out and will be watching your heavy duty build!

[BlueBomber]

Nice topper, looks like it fits... snug! Also, i thought you were gonna paint over the spray paint art. are you getting used to it?

[Metcalf]

The entire truck is getting painted. I just haven't cared enough to rattle can over the other stuff. The sandblaster will fix all that soon enough!

The tires are getting me all excited. Hopefully I will be test fitting soon with the modded front fender. Looking at things I might have to tub the wheel wells out in the bed also? I would rather do it now and have room for the tires to move around.....

I lurked at the 4bt forum a lot. I came very close to installing one in my 78 F150. I think that would make a great truck, but for the money this was cheaper.

I should pull the 315s off tonight and install the 265s so I can test the mileage. I hope this will help determine the gearing needed for the new big meats. I am torn between 4.10s and 4.56s. plus a G56 6 speed is looking pretty good. Plus I can have the big tires mounted on the aluminum rims for test fitting purposes :)

I have a trip to Moab coming up in two weeks too. I need to pay a little attention to my Willys before I go.

[BorntoVenture]

Those mileage numbers are very nice, it's making me want to get to my diesel swap before next year!

Keep up the great work, can't wait to see more!

[Metcalf]

Small update,

I grabbed the inner fender I needed for the front at the junkyard yesterday. Hopefully I will be able to get the first sectioned fender on the truck this weekend. I have a moab trip coming up in two weeks also......

I also swapped the stock rims and some 265s back on the truck so I can dismount the 315s and have the new big tires mounted on those aluminum rims.

The truck is an entirely new animal with the small tires on it. I kinda like the lower gearing. With the 315s it was a little too tall for gearing I think. The effective gearing with the 265s/3.55 combo might be a little too low for lots of interstate travel, but I think for the 65mph highways around here, towing, and bigger tires it might work out better. I am going to do the trip to moab coming up with the small tires to see what mileage is towing the jeep. I got 18mpg last time...so we will see. I can start in 2nd now without thinking about it and don't even have to think about shifting out of 5th on the highway on the passes.

I am trying to figure out what to do with gearing.......

[Rot Box]

Have fun in Moab! What trails are you going to run?

Like I mentioned earlier I have 265's with 4.10's and I don't like taking it over 65mph (although it governs out at 83mph) on the highway. I anytime I swap gears I try to match my cruising speed with the engines peak torque--or close to it.

This might help you determine what gears to use http://www.rocky-road.com/calculator.html

Keep up the awesome work :elkgrin:

[Metcalf]

I don't know what trails we are going to run. The group coming over is pretty mild. My little Willys is only on 32s but it still gets around pretty good.

I am stuck between 4.10s and 4.56s. I really need 4.30s. Those would be about perfect I think with the big tires. 4.56s will probably work pretty well. I think that is still higher overall than your 265s/4.10 combo.

The worst thing is that 4.10s are easy to do with junkyard stuff, while 4.56s is getting more complex.

[Metcalf]

Mini update...

I made the last patch panel and welded it in the fender. I need to grind down the welds a little bit still but its pretty much ready to go in. I started laying out the inner fender also. I sectioned and welded the inner brace in the fender also. I need to do a few hole patches and finish the front lower lip off.

There is one more brace that I need to install. It was half glued in with rubber stuff and tack welded on the other side. I need to find something to re-stick in that brace. I also need to mod it a little for the antenna...they are getting a little friendly.

I hope I can get the fender on this weekend and perhaps test fit one of the large tires.

Boy is the truck going to look funny with the 265s and sectioned fenders! I will have to run that way for a bit till I get them all done.

[chet]

very cool truck! I have had a few of the early dodge cummins. I would go for the 4.10's and some power improvements which are simple to do. That way you will have all the power you need. check out the diesel power mag's website they ran a series on hopping up the early motor.

[Metcalf]

I'm pretty sure I am going to do the 4.10s. With the 265s on the truck now I just think its too low geared for my tastes. Throwing some more power in the truck will help some other problems and when the Getrag blows up I will look at installing an early G56.

4.10s are also not going to cost much if anything. The current plan is to swap a GM SRW 14-bolt with 4.10s in the back and pull a set of Ford 4.10 D60 rear axle gears for the front. Then sell the D70 rear and front 3.55 gears as a package. I will need to get a 1410 yoke for the 14bolt.

[Rot Box]

4.10s are also not going to cost much if anything. The current plan is to swap a GM SRW 14-bolt with 4.10s in the back and pull a set of Ford 4.10 D60 rear axle gears for the front. Then sell the D70 rear and front 3.55 gears as a package. I will need to get a 1410 yoke for the 14bolt.

I like this idea 14 bolts are CHEAP! Although you can't go wrong with any 14 bolt axle you could kill two birds by getting the big drum version--they are HUGE compared to what our D70's have. The factory disc brake ones would be really nice, but they are hard to find for a decent price. Also the later model axles have the 3rd pinion support bearing that eliminates gear deflect. Anyway they are a big upgrade to the D70U, and every bit helps on these behemoths :bike_rider:

Do you plan on running lockers?

[Metcalf]

The 14-bolt is going to be a huge improvement for the truck. I am most likely going to do rear disc brakes with a set of K20 front rotors/calipers to ditch about #150 off the rear axle. The brackets for the 14-bolt are super cheap. I think you can get bolt on versions for like $50 shipped.

I am right in the middle of trying to find a suitable caliper to make a transfer case mounted disc e-brake. I really want an e-brake that will hold the truck no matter what! I may use the flange style yoke off the front of the t-case in the rear and redrill it for a 1410 flange mount yoke.

Lockers. Yup, I would like to have something front and back. I have a hard time thinking about buying ARBs for the truck front and back, but that would most likely be the best choice for the truck.

Some other random locker ideas....

A factory no-spin locker from an Eaton rear axle (pre72 GM ) will slip right in the 14-bolt if your use the Eaton axle shafts also. I might know where one is for super cheap, though I don't know about a full time locker in this truck.

I could always just weld the rear end :)

I have even thought about building my own lockers :) :)

[ntsqd]

Suggest searching coloradoK5.com on the rear disc brakes topic. Getting a decent brake bias can sometimes be a challenge with caliper pistons that large.

Some Cummins-Dodges used a vacuum pump for the power brakes didn't they? I'd dump it and go Hydra-Boost if it does.

I have a set of those rear disc conversion brackets from Ruff Stuff. Unlike some of the brackets out there, those are formed and do not use long bolts with spacers. I also have core calipers and a used set of rotors. I never made the rear disc conversion on my Sub. PM if those are of any interest.
Were I ready to part it out that axle might be ideal for you. Gearing is 3.73, but is has the Detroit already in place and as of ~10-12k miles ago all new bearings, seals, and brake parts (hardware kit too).

AFAIK all 14bff's have the pinion nose support bearing and a removable pinion bearing carrier. They and the Ford 9" are the only two light duty axles that I know of with these features.

[Metcalf]

My dodge does have the vacuum assist brakes. Hydroboost is in the plans, but I have yet to find any donors. I will also need to change the master cylinder for a disc/disc unit. I would also like to install a proportioning valve on the rear circuit to help dial things in.

I have been toying around with the idea of using a real hydraulic pump instead of a power steering pump. I think the heavy front end of this truck really taxes the pump. Hydro-assist is probably in the works with the new big tires.

I have to keep the vacuum pump to run the cruise and a/c / heater stuff.

Put it this way. The brakes can't get much worse.

[Metcalf]

Evening micro update...

I got to work on the project for a bit. I was able to get the inner fender roughed out and ready to install in the truck. The last section is welded into the fender also....

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010251.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010247.jpg

I also got one of the big tires mounted on the aluminum rims so I can do a test fit when the first sectioned fender goes on. Hopefully that will be this weekend!

It will be interesting to see what the mileage does with the small tires? My speedo is still WAY off?? I have to say its not really my most favorite gearing. To me, after driving around with the 315s since I bought the truck, that I am in 4th gear on the highway. I find myself reaching over and trying to shift up a gear. I think the 4.10s will be a good choice for my driving style...if its a little doggy I can always add 200hp or so :) Or swap in a G56 6-speed. I think that would be a VERY nice addition to the truck. I definitely think that 4.56s would have been a little too low overall.

I can't wait to see what the truck looks like with the big tires and sectioned fenders! Hopefully I will have a teaser pic up this weekend.

[BlueBomber]

I can't wait to see what the truck looks like with the big tires and sectioned fenders! Hopefully I will have a teaser pic up this weekend.

:wings::wings::wings::wings::Wow1::Wow1::Wow1: :drool::drool:


i cant wait!!!!

[Metcalf]

Well here it is....the first test fit....details below!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010253.jpg

I finally was able to get the first of the sectioned fenders together enough to get a test fit done on the truck! Oh boy did that feel good! Everything was a success to say the least. I am not done yet. I still need to fill in the inner fender sections that are missing. I didn't know what these pieces where going to look like so I decided to weld them in on the truck. I may just tack them and take the inner fender out again to final weld everything. We will see. I hope to tackle this in the coming week before I leave for Moab.

The tires fit really well in the new sectioned fender. For those just turning in I took 6" total out of the fender horizontally to make them longer. I was planning on running a 37" tires but ended up finding a great deal on a set of used 325/85r16 Michelin XML's. These are a TRUE 38.5" tall ( 121" Cir ).

As it happens I was also able to keep full lock to lock steering with the big tires. I may even trim the stops and clearance the knuckles to get a few more degrees. Here is the clearance between the tire and spring.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010259.jpg

I think the tire has plenty of room to move around. With the big Cummins oil pan you don't really get much up travel. I think even with my new front springs I only have about 3-4" at most.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010254.jpg

On the 8" wheels the tires also don't stick out that much at all. I don't know if I will keep the 8" wheels in the long run? I will have to see what the tires wear like. They are spec'd for a 9" rim if I remember right.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010261.jpg

Yup, that's a lot of tire! I hope these big meats will come in useful. This is suppose to be an expedition truck after all. Do you need tires like this, most likely not, but why not be a little different. I think these should provide a MARKED improvement in off road performance, especially in more extreme circumstances. It will be interesting to see how these do in the sand aired down. This big old truck isn't the lightest and hopefully these tires allow it to float a little better. The ground clearance under the D60/70 diffs will also be a big bonus! I still may do a bead-lock of some kind in the future. I will see how they do first. These tires have a pretty stiff bead for sure.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010264.jpg

Here you can get a decent view of the room the tires have to move around. Its not a ton, but more than enough I think. I don't ever really plan to make this truck a rock-crawler with a super flexy suspension! Like I said before. I only have so much room for up travel with the oil pan.

Hopefully I can find a clean way to cover up the mess in the front of the fender where the inner and outer meet. I am going to be building a front bumper that wraps around and is tapered so that should hide most of it. I would like to get everything sealed up from the inner to outer fender though since the air box ( and its future improvement ) will always be in that area.

So what do you guys think? Did it turn out ok?

[brettf]

glad I tuned in tonight during my saturday night SARS/swine flu/black plague/whatever recovery session. this is looking like a monster! awesome! :victory:

edit: and more to what you're probably interested in, once that fender is cleaned up, it will look stock! well, it will look stock to those of us not intimately familiar with the fender lines on the old dodges... which probably isn't many of us... I wouldn't notice except to do a double take on the size of tire on that thing... nice work!!

[hidesertwheelin]

Those tires look great. I can't wait to get mine.

[hidesertwheelin]

I am right in the middle of trying to find a suitable caliper to make a transfer case mounted disc e-brake. I really want an e-brake that will hold the truck no matter what! I may use the flange style yoke off the front of the t-case in the rear and redrill it for a 1410 flange mount yoke.



Have you considered using Caddy calipers? I am running calipers from a 77-79 Caddy Eldorado. They come with a parking brake, and will will fit all of the brackets that come in the 14-bolt disk kits. Kragen sells the calipers for about $54 each http://shop.oreillyauto.com/ProductList.aspx?PartType=5003&PTSet=A. The hardest part is finding the parking brake brackets. I ended up using the brackets from a 81-84 caddy. If you have good selections in your junk yard you can probably find them.


Picture of rear disk 14-Bolt set up.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p59/hidesertwheelin/Suburban/reardisk5.jpg

Also make sure you install some kind of rock ring around the14-bolt cover. They are made out of thin aluminum, and break easily.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p59/hidesertwheelin/Suburban/14boltwrockringandgaurd.jpg

[Rot Box]

So what do you guys think? Did it turn out ok?

Awesome work! Your not wasting any time :jump:

[Metcalf]

Thanks guys. The encouragement makes me work faster, some days its hard to drag myself out to work on the thing.

edit: and more to what you're probably interested in, once that fender is cleaned up, it will look stock! well, it will look stock to those of us not intimately familiar with the fender lines on the old dodges... which probably isn't many of us... I wouldn't notice except to do a double take on the size of tire on that thing... nice work!!

This is basically the reason why I went this direction. Its more work than just a lift or hacking the fenders, but I think it will be worth it in the end. The truck isn't going to look stock, but it should take people a while to figure out what was done to the truck.

Have you considered using Caddy calipers? I am running calipers from a 77-79 Caddy Eldorado.

So how does the e-brake hold? If the e-brake can hold really well I would consider going that route. We used a set on a jeep we built years ago, honestly we could never get the e-brake to hold that well? Any tips or tricks for that?

The 14-bolt will get a new cover. I am going to smooth the bottom out a bit too. That lip on the bottom has got to go! I will most likely build my own cover if I can find a ring pre-cut. I would really like to do a mounting ring with a built in o-ring groove! That way the cover could come on and off without having to worry about a gasket or messy silicone. I would also like to add a quart or so to the lube/oil capacity to help temps when towing.

I am still considering what locker to install. I have a lead on that eaton no-spin which would be next to nothing. I don't know if I want a detroit style diff or not. If its cheap enough I can always try it and if I don't like it change it in the future.

I still have a lot of work to do on the body before I get too ahead of myself! I would like to have the 14-bolt and 4.10s for the front shortly after I am ready to bolt the 325s on.

[hidesertwheelin]

Everytime I test the parking brake, it works, but I have an automatic so I don't use it that much. The picture is older, but I ended up putting some washer between the end of the cable and the lever plate. There was some slack in the line, I think because I was using the wrong hardware for those calipers.

As for the locker I love my Detroit, but I only have to drive in the now and frozen roads once or twice a year here, when ever it snows. You can probably find a GM Gov-Lok pretty cheap, hell i just threw 2 of them away when I moved. They are a lot stouter than the crappy ones that came in the 1/2-ton axles. I was running one until I got a great deal on my detroit.

[Metcalf]

I am still leaning toward the t-case mounted e-brake. I want something that will hold the truck on like a 45 degree slope :) I just need to find a good caliper to use. I found one from Carlisle but am having a bugger of a time getting a price or even finding one for sale.

http://www.carlislebrake.com/images/brake_prods/rt.jpg

There is also the Wilwood mechanical spot caliper but I don't know if its going to be heavy duty enough?

http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/950202280.jpg


I have a limited slip in the rear of the truck currently and it does help, but this truck needs real lockers for sure. Heck, I can always just weld up the open carrier for a bit? I should just pony up and buy ARBs for it front and back but that might require a reckless night with to much sippin' Tequila and the credit card.

[Rot Box]

I am still considering what locker to install. I have a lead on that eaton no-spin which would be next to nothing. I don't know if I want a detroit style diff or not. If its cheap enough I can always try it and if I don't like it change it in the future.

You could run the No-Spin with the Eaton shafts, but why downgrade to a course 10 spline? I think the Eaton HO72's are cool in the fact that they have a drop out third member, removable rear cover, large R&P and are tons lighter than the 14 bolt that replaced it. Not sure on housing strenght, but it might be worth using the whole axle. In the long run you could just upgrade to 14 bolt shafts and the Detroit side gears and have a 35 spl. Eaton. Might get a few double takes with that under a Dodge :coffeedrink:

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=771317&highlight=eaton

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=752599&highlight=eaton

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=746415&highlight=eaton

[Rot Box]

Heck, I can always just weld up the open carrier for a bit? I should just pony up and buy ARBs for it front and back but that might require a reckless night with to much sippin' Tequila and the credit card.

I'm not against welded diffs, but with the wieght of those tires and a shell packed with gear it is going to be brutal at best :eek:

[Metcalf]

I thought about going the eaton route. The biggest downside is the width. They are a little narrower than even the stock rear axle. You can make some SRW 14-bolt hubs work on an eaton rear end but it takes some machine work on the spindles. The bearings for the eaton rear ends are also getting to be pretty rare and/or expensive. Not that they go out that often, but if they did in the middle of nowhere you might be up a creek.

The eaton should have 17 spline shafts if I remember right, and I haven't heard of too many people breaking those...so is it really that big of a deal changing from the 30 spline 14-bolt stuff?? The only reason why I would run the eaton shafts and locker is for the cost aspect....I might be able to get them for like $50 locally. Again...don't know if I want a detroit in the back but for that kind of cost it might be worth the test.

The 14-bolt stuff is a dime a dozen. Parts are also super easy to find. They are also 67" wide which is perfect for my truck. The only real cost I am going to have in the thing is the 1410 yoke.

[mopowa]

Heard of this project going on through dieseltruckresource.com, thought i'd register here and watch your progress. Props on all the hard work you've put into that ole girl, cant wait to see the finished result.

Cheers

[BlueBomber]

. The bearings for the eaton rear ends are also getting to be pretty rare and/or expensive. Not that they go out that often, but if they did in the middle of nowhere you might be up a creek.


you could buy a couple and keep one in the truck with you. The pics of your worked fenders look great. Does the rear look like you need tubs?

[Metcalf]

The eaton bearing is like $250 a pop last time I checked. They are great rear ends, but I don't really see a huge advantage over the 14-bolt. Width being the biggest disadvantage vs the 14-bolt.

Yes. It looks like the rear wheel tubs are going to need to be pushed toward the center of the truck a bit. I may go all the way to the frame and then have enough room to outboard the shocks with some kind of hoop tucked into the tub.

Sadly not much going on this week. I am trying to get ready for moab. I did stop and get some poster board to make templates for the inner fender sections.

[BlueBomber]

cool! I cant wait to see the fenders when they are done! are you going to try to make the rear tubs look "stock" too? it would be neat to see, but i dont want to make you work any harder than you planned.

[Metcalf]

I don't know what I am going to do with the rear tubs in the bed. Mine are pretty hammered an I am leaning toward just building some new ones. Depending on where I can cut them I may just add a section to them. Don't know for sure yet. I need to get the outer fenders done first, then I can do the tubs once I get the tires on and see how much room I need in the rear.

The bed of the truck is getting a sleeping/storage platform so you won't really be able to see the tubs....

[ntsqd]

Shave some weight, hang the bedsides on a simple structure and toss in one of those plastic bedliners, also supported by a/the simple structure?

This might be viable if carrying real weight (firewood, engines, etc.) isn't in the plan.

[Funrover]

Sweet rig!

[Metcalf]

Its a work truck. I regularly carry a 400 gallon water tank in the bed to fill the cistern at the house.

I do like the idea however! That would be trick.

[ntsqd]

Put the tank on a dedicated trailer?
:sombrero:

[Metcalf]

I have a trailer...but it has to carry the Willys...like to Moab this weekend!

Woo Hoo :)

[Metcalf]

Man, I don't want to sleep in a tent this weekend in Moab, I wish I had a way to sleep in the back of the truck comfortably for a little bit till I get the truck more finished....

I know. I'll built it after work today!

So after a $30 trip to home depot this is what I came up with. Keep in mind this was made in two hours! I think it will work just fine for the trip this weekend. The air bed is HUGE and will be SUPER comfortable!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010271.jpg

There is plenty of room for two and gear. I just tossed some stuff in there for scale.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010269.jpg

It hinges at the back, and though a little heavy, allows you to store larger things like the spare tire under it.

Super simple mounting hinge and location. I think the hinges and hardware where $10.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010270.jpg

I will build in something else down the road. This will work fine for now.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010268.jpg

Fun stuff....

[BlueBomber]

if i had a nice, covered truck bed, i know i would'nt want to sleep in a tent. the platform looks pretty good! how sturdy are the legs? if it was permanent, how would you change it?

P.S. your build is the reason I am on here everyday! thanks for all the updates!

[wely]

I would put a heavy blanket or some carpeting between the plywood and the air matress. I am speaking from experience. I used one like that for one night and about half way through the night the air leaked out because the plywood poked holes in the mattress. Just a thought keep up the good work.

[Metcalf]

The platform turned out better than I thought. It was a function before form design. I only wanted to use one 4x8 sheet of plywood/chipboard. I ended up cutting the sleeping platform 75" long and took the leftovers and make two 10" wide sections to add to the side to make a platform 75x58" which was the perfect size for a double/full size bed. We had the old airbed in the spare room so it got tossed in the back.

The leg position was dictated by the front to back stringers. I just wanted the legs to be screwed in on two sides.

It was all quick and dirty. The platform is pretty heavy really but it is nice you can lift it up to get to the underside. I plan on tossing the spare tire and some bags/bins back there for the trip this weekend.

I would suggest using a foam mattress topper instead of the airbed. I think you could gain about 4" of headroom over the bed that way.

The lift up feature was quick and worked, but I don't know how long it would hold up off the road?

I am sure I will have a much better idea of what I want in the back of the truck after a little while with this setup. Just having a nice soft, dry, and warm place to sleep is going to be really sweet!

After thinking about it last night I am leaning toward NOT having the spare tire in the back ( perhaps move it outside or under the truck ), the sleeping platform would be full width with compartments on the 4 corners with lids. A nice 3" thick foam mattress. And perhaps have two super long side out drawers in the middle with modular boxes in/on them. I have been thinking about making one of the drawers a kitchen/bath setup with a stove and sink that slides out past the tailgate?

Thanks for the complements. I'll try and keep the updates coming!

[Metcalf]

I made it back from the Moab trip safe and sound. The truck/camper/trailer combo worked good. It was so nice not to have to set up and take down camp each day. Also, not having to worry about driving the Willys all the way home let me have a little more fun on the trail.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Moab%20may%202009/P1010278Medium.jpg

The album of pics is here.....some good ones I think.

http://s125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Moab%20may%202009/

We ended up doing Fins & Things, Porcupine Rim, and Gold Bar Rim.

I also didn't see another flat fender jeep the entire time I was there.....:)

[Rot Box]

Looks like you had a good time :)

Fun trails too. Some of those climbs on Fins and Things must have felt like they were strait up and down in a swb Jeep!

Did you check the fuel milage while towing?

[Metcalf]

It was 16.98 for the trip. That included running around looking for campsites :)

[BlueBomber]

you tires look weird! what did you do, rip-off a honda civic?:sombrero: J/K.

glad you got back safe. have you done anything to get better MPG?

[Metcalf]

I try and not drive too fast. That seems to help mileage the most. I tend to run about 63-67 most of the time. I actually think the mileage went down a touch with the smaller tires.

[RgrBox]

I0m getting around 670 kms out of my Defender since I only drive at around 100 to 110 kph. Usually I have to fill her up once a week.

I'm also running the issue Michelin tires on my Defender.. but I will pit a new pair of BF Goodriches when I need new tires.. sure this will hurt my consumption.

[BlueBomber]

I actually think the mileage went down a touch with the smaller tires.

Maybe from the wheels spinning faster?:confused: IDK...

[Metcalf]

Its just more RPM for the same speed. I think the truck was kind of at a sweet spot before. It wasn't the fastest thing on the road but the gearing worked out pretty good for mileage if you kept your foot out of it.

I will be back to where I was before with the bigger tires and 4.10s, or at least close enough I think.

The big Cummins doesn't need a lot of RPM to push the truck down the road.

[Kilroy]

With smaller tires, your odometer is showing more distance than what you are traveling. A Scan Gauge II and a GPS is useful in determining what actual distance and speed is.


Its just more RPM for the same speed. I think the truck was kind of at a sweet spot before. It wasn't the fastest thing on the road but the gearing worked out pretty good for mileage if you kept your foot out of it.

I will be back to where I was before with the bigger tires and 4.10s, or at least close enough I think.

The big Cummins doesn't need a lot of RPM to push the truck down the road.

[mor4wd]

The truck is looking great! You need to get those fenders finished so we can see what it's going to look like. It was nice meeting you.
btw, here's a picture of what your tires came off of....

[Metcalf]

I always have to use a GPS for speed/distance stuff. The odometer has been way off since I bought the truck.

With the little tires I am running more RPM for a given speed. With the big diesel this RPM really isn't needed, so I think it costs me fuel mileage. With the 315s the truck would just float along at a nice low rpm. With the more stock sized tires the truck is spinning the motor a little too fast. I could slow the motor down to where the 'magic' spot was before, but then I would be going too slow for most traffic. I think with the new big tires and 4.10s it will be much better overall.

I am working on the truck as much as I can. It still has to do its chores like haul water and stuff :)

[chasespeed]

Yeah, the sweet spot, depending on WHO you talk to... is 1500-1900(widest range).....

Mine is pretty consistent, with around 19 avg per tank(mixed traffic and hwy), and I TRY to keep the speed around 70.. maybe even down to 65... that puts it 1800-2000( I dont really pay TOO much attention)....I pay more attention to my Pyro than my tach.... and try to keep it at around 600* on the hwy, though, kinda hard with larger sticks.. it moves pretty quick....

But, thats a p-pumped 12v....

Truck is coming along just fine... keep it up...

Chase

[Metcalf]

Did you see that article in the new DieselPower mag? Garmon Diesel built a shortbed dodge 1500 with a p-pump 12valve.

There is a small blurb about the owner running the truck at like 1300rpm at 60mph, keeping it at 600 degrees, and basically driving like he was really old :)

Anyways...the truck returned something like 55mpg! Amazing!

Its a much smaller, lighter, and more aerodynamic package in the 1500 2wd chassis for sure....but stilll.....dang.

The engine is running twin turbos, extrude honed injectors, etc. It will lay down 700hp to the wheels on the rollers!

Cool.....

I love diesels!

With my truck and the 315s I think the sweet spot was about 1600rpm for 63-65mph. Look back a few posts for the California camper and tire fetch report. The truck AVERAGED over 20mpg with a best of 24.5! Not too bad at all! For the shape of a brick anyways!

[Metcalf]

Dinner Break....

It took a lot more work than I had planned, but I have the fender on the rear passenger side all cut apart. It's ready to be put back together now. Dang its a BIG hole in the side of the truck!

It looks like it will turn out ok. I guess I just wasn't in the mood today or something. I found myself getting pretty frustrated while working on it. I had to slow down, take a few breaths, and try again.

Hopefully I will have it tack welded back together tonight, then its time for the section patch and some bracing to keep the bedsides from flexing too much.

Pictures after I get it back together....its just a big hole right now!

[Metcalf]

I'm creating a MONSTER!!!!

Well, at least that is what it feels like sometimes. So here is the lowdown on the first rear fender.....or at least as far as I got this long weekend.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010408.jpg

First you lay out the cuts. I was able to do this a little different than the front because of the lack of an inner fender. I am taking 3" out front and back, but I am going to do a single section in the middle instead of two like the front.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010409.jpg

Then you hack the entire thing apart. This is the point where I go....
DANG....what did I do?!?!??!?!?!. This was a BIG hole in the side of the truck. Cutting out the fender lip that joins the outer panel to the wheel well was the hardest part. Did I mention that was a BIG hole!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010411.jpg

Then you start putting it back together. At least it starts to look like something at this point. Don't mind the mismatch at the rear lower portion of the bedside. All that is getting hacked off for a wrap around bumper.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010412.jpg

Then you put the other half back in. At this point it starts to look like a bedside again! I didn't have enough clean metal around to make the section filler. I am going to buy a sheet of steel this week. I don't really need a 4x10 sheet but I don't think I can get around it anymore. I was able to add some braces from the inner wheel well tub to the outer sheet of the bedside. This helped make everything a little more rigid.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010424.jpg

Now comes the best part. The test fit! This always makes things come together in my head and get me motivated again. Sometimes these projects seem to drag. So tell me that doesn't look SWEET! The tire has plenty of room front to back and on the top.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010433.jpg

This is the worst clearance spot. The tire is getting a little close to the wheel tub. Its better than I thought it would be, and I could drive it like this. I am still debating if I am going to need to tub the rear. I think with the 14-bolt rear axle, which is wider by about 2.5", that I don't 'need' to. I will have to see. I can always do it down the road since its not going to be a painted surface.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010426.jpg

This one is for scale. My very understanding and supportive girlfriend is 5'7" tall. These tire are BIG!!!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010428.jpg

Surprisingly these tire don't stick out much! This will change with the new wider axle but not THAT much. I like that they don't stick way out. The low stance of the truck lets me get away with this. Sometime I have to remind myself that these tires measure the same as most 40" tires. Honestly I think I have room for 42" tires if I ever wanted to upgrade, especially if I mini-tubed the rear.

Hopefully this week I can get another tire mounted up so I can do a front and rear test fit. This should really help me visualize the final product. After I get the sheet of 22 gauge cold roll I can finish off the front inner fender and the rear section and add the last brace. Then its on to the other side. In the rear the gas filler door adds a little complexity, the front should be about the same. I can't decide if I want to try and do the other front ON the truck instead of off?

After the fenders are done and tires are all on....

Gearing, Body and Paint, or Bumpers next?

Thoughts, Comment, Suggestions, Kind words of encouragement, etc?

[chasespeed]

I would either go with gearing, or bumpers next... paint last....

Then again, this is coming from the guy, who is going to mimic the Rustoleum Roll-On that another build did......

Chase

[Metcalf]

I am going to do Rustoleum too! That was the plan from the start pretty much. I had fleeting thoughts of doing the 90s Landcruiser color Moonglow Pearl but I don't think the body work on this truck is ever going to be that nice. I am going to use 'Smoke Grey' Rustoleum instead. There is nothing wrong with using it as long as you get enough on and take the time to color sand and polish. A coat of wax every few months will keep it looking really nice. The key is prep.

I don't know if I am going to roller it on. I thought about it, but I already have a compressor and a gun. I may roller it on just to keep the mess down though. With a roller you REALLY have to thin it...something like 50/50 or so...you want all the bubbles to pop on there own. It almost looks milky this thin and you need to put on about 6-7 coats or more to get enough to sand on.

What is this thread you talk about with roller paint...is it on here? I'm going to go look around....

I want to do gearing but that is going to involve opening another can of worms as far as lockers go....and I will be swapping in a 14-bolt if I do anything for gears. I am going to at least TRY the 3.55s with the big tires just for fun. As far as locker go I really want selectable lockers, but I don't know if I can spend that much on this old truck. I guess I could always build my own lockers....I have always wanted to do that :) I think I could copy the T-locker design pretty easy for the D60 front. A selectable locker for the 14-bolt in the rear might be a little harder/different. If for some reason I decide to stay with the D60/D70 stock axles I would probably just add a Powr-Lok to the front to match the rear. Even that is probably more than this truck needs.

I guess I also need to do at least the rear bumper before the paint and detail body work. The rear of the bed is getting cut off a lot for the wrap around rear bumper I have mentioned earlier in the thread.

I am just trying to work on the truck about an hour an evening....that seems to get a fair bit done without going overboard and burning myself out. If I didn't need to drive the truck sometimes during the week I think I could move a little faster.

I just got to keep going......

[Rot Box]

I just got to keep going......

Yes--yes you do! We've all been waiting long enough and want to see it driving with all four of those tires mounted up :elkgrin:

It's too bad the Olive Drab paint scheme is so played out because it would fit your truck perfect. That being said I think doing the gearing next may be you best bet then some bumpers afterwards.

Looks awesome keep it up :drool:

[Metcalf]

I'm going to keep going....it's a longer process than most can imagine. If I could keep the truck down for a week or two I could make more progress, but when you have to drive, and use it, stuff like this becomes harder.

It will be on the big tires soon.

Did I mention these tires are BIG....what was I thinking?!?!?!? :D

I have the front and rear bumpers designed. I just need to buy the steel. I need a sheet of plate ( still going back and forth on thickness ) and some 2x4 tube. I would like to build the front bumper around the winch....so I guess I have to think about buying that soon.

I don't think I will ever run out of projects for this truck....just too much potential room for improvement....or I always have too many ideas.

[Rot Box]

I was just being a little sarcastic as usual. I don't have enough cuss words saved up or enough tools left to throw to even attempt enlarging my fenderwell and expecting it to turn out that nice :( Great work! :sombrero:

Any ideas yet on the rear suspension? For a quick fix I've been contemplating running 52" Blazer springs and keeping the tension shackle... I noticed the rear of of my truck will wash out on even the smallest of washboards with the stock ones.

[Metcalf]

I would have to say the best thing you can do for a suspension is run GREAT shocks. Yes, they are expensive......but if you buy the good ones you can rebuild them as many times as you want AND tune them to do about anything.

I think on these old dodge trucks the stock shock position doesn't do the truck any favors. They are tilted in ( angled ) which makes them less effective and inboard of the springs also...which also makes them less effective.

If I have my way I will be buying a set of 2.5" Dia Remote Reservoir shocks from FOA. They are not top of the line, but they are good re-buildable shocks that have enough beef to do some good. Don't get carried away with overall travel, its more about quality of travel.

In the end....the stock rear springs on the dodges are pretty rough but you can't really get away with a super soft spring, especially with the tall rear block. The rear end will wrap enough to break things. I think the best thing to do would be to have a set of custom rear springs built to eliminate the rear block....and provide a good 'empty' ride. Then have some long travel air bags for weight carrying capacity and towing.

Sadly, all this stuff is a lot of money......its hard investing a ton of coin in an old truck.

[chasespeed]

Thats how I built my bumper, AROUND the winch. And everything is various sizes. Go with some beef for the mounts, and winch plate(and front center section), and the rest, can get a little lighter.

Second, FOA, I have not used them myself yet, BUT, everyone is aparently pleasantly surprised at them....

When this Bilsteins go(5100s), it will be FOA remove res shocks for me....

Chase

[Metcalf]

Thats how I built my bumper, AROUND the winch. And everything is various sizes. Go with some beef for the mounts, and winch plate(and front center section), and the rest, can get a little lighter.

I am still debating on what to build the bumper out of. I am honestly leaning toward 1/8" :) I think with the proper design that it will be more than heavy enough. I have the ability to test everything is FEA so I don't have to guess too much. If you look, most ARB bumpers are made out of similar material. I think if the bends and gussets are in the right places it could work out sweet. I have a nice design in my head.......

I want to keep it lighter than most. I don't need any more weight in the front of the truck, that Cummins takes care of that!

The winch is also going to be fairly hidden, mounted down low between the frame rails, and tucked back against the front crossmember right below the radiator and intercooler. Something like the new dodge Powerwagons.



Second, FOA, I have not used them myself yet, BUT, everyone is aparently pleasantly surprised at them....

When this Bilsteins go(5100s), it will be FOA remove res shocks for me....

I haven't heard anything bad at all. They offer a few different options for the top cap and seals too. You can upgrade to the high temp seals for a few bucks and a billet top cap for another few dollars.

I just heard that Edelbrock is going to be releasing a set of air bumps that are very affordable. I think they are about $100 each. That is about half the price of the name brands. Its amazing the difference a good bumpstop makes in a suspension.....everything becomes much more progressive when you hit a big bump.

I am having second thoughts about keeping my rear axle. Its not the best axle, but its in there and I just verified that I have a Dana Powr-Lok in the rear. This is a GREAT limited slip diff that is very strong and is only one step below a full locker. I would love to have ARBs but I don't know if its worth all the extra money for this old truck?

The 14-bolt rear axle swap is still a really good option. I can find them all day long with 4.10 gears. They have the 3rd pinion bearing for strength. They are a little wider than the rear I have now and match the front axle almost perfect. The axles are slightly bigger. Disc brakes are cheap. Etc Etc. I will have to buy a 1410 rear yoke which is about $100 and figure out something for brakes. I would like to do discs in the rear but that adds a lot of auxiliary cost for a new master cylinder and perhaps a hydroboost system.

If the truck had 4.10s stock I would just keep the D70 rear. Boy that would be simple! No such luck though.

[Metcalf]

Sunday....weekly update.

Though I didn't end up working a ton of time on the Dodge I did manage to get a lot done in a short time. I only spent about 4-5 hours working on the truck this Sunday afternoon. Its getting close boys and girls! I have both rear fenders pretty much done.....only one left now!

I came up with a pretty good system for the other rear fender....

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010004.jpg

Step one. Use a wire wheel to get most of the paint off and get down to some bare metal. Its a lot easier to do this step before you get everything cut apart.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010005.jpg

Step Two. Use good masking tape ( I like 3M products ) to mark off your cut lines. Use as much as you need to get the cuts you want, mark everything with a pen if you need to remember where to cut.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010006.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010007.jpg

Step Three. Drill your pilot holes to allow you to make the cuts you need. These go in the eliminated section areas so you don't have to patch anything later. Even with the double section around the fuel filler door I was able to get away with only having to drill two holes.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010008.jpg

Step Four. Use this little magic guy to make most of the cuts. The only cut I couldn't do with a the jigsaw was cutting the inner fender away from the outer panel. I had to use a saws-all for this. I used a pretty short metal blade. Cut the inner fender away first before you cut on the outer parts. I had to make this short blade for the jigsaw buy using a cut off wheel on the grinder. This makes the blade just short enough that it doesn't hit the inner panel on the top of the wheelwell.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010009.jpg

Make this cut first while the panel is still very stable. I did the horizontal cut and vertical cut in this area while the panel was still in one piece. It add stability and lets you cut without much vibration in the panel.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010010.jpg

I then cut the rear section. I cut the panel in one piece with the section attached. It just works out better to cut the sections out once the panel is loose from the truck.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010011.jpg

I save the top cut till last. As I go I used some duct tape ( 3M ) to hold the panel as I went. This keeps the panel from falling and ripping the last bit out as you cut it free.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010012.jpg

After all that you end up with a big freaking hole in the side of the truck!

[Metcalf]

Now you have to put it back together again!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010013.jpg

I use this tool to cut off the sectioned areas. Its pretty easy to get a very straight and clean line. They do make you hands hurt after a bit though! One secret to using these is to work a long string out the top instead of taking little tiny bites over and over.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010016.jpg

Once I removed the sections I used a grinder and cut off wheel to remove most of the inner fender. I lift a little lip on the back to add strength. I then cut the fender apart in the middle. The rear section got welded in first. Take a little time to make sure the fit is good. As long as you cut straight it should be. You can use a flapper wheel to adjust the edge as needed. I use a combination of magnets and duct tape to hold the panel in place for tack welding. I start at one corner and work my way all over the panel. Generally you have to push, pull, and hammer a little to get the edges to line up well enough. Just take you time until you get the hang of it.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010017.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010018.jpg

The front section gets welded in next. On this side of the truck you have to deal with the fuel door. I decided to work the sectioning around the door so I could leave it in place. It makes for a few more edges but worked really well.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010019.jpg

The last thing you have to do is fill in the gap you created by sectioning the fender. I finally picked up some new 22 gauge cold roll to make the rear patches. Working with new clean metal is SOOOO nice. I was able to duplicate the fender line and lip buy using a cheap rubber mallet, a ballpeen hammer, and a piece of 1/4" strap to form the patch over. I formed only the fender line before welding it on the truck. Then once it was welded in I used a pair of flange pliers and a little hammer and dolly work to form the lower edge.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010027.jpg

Then you have to keep welding the structure together. I use the tack/move/tack method as much as possible. Once the area is too hot for a bar hand I move on to another area. I use a brass bar to help fill the gaps if needed. Once you get the wire speed and temp right you can go pretty fast without having to worry about blowing through. Once you have it all welded up....then you have to grind it down. I use a flapper disc to do this. I generally use a 60 grit. It seems to be aggressive enough to grind down the welds without burning through the sheet metal.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010029.jpg

I also made and welded in the patch panel for the other side and finished welding it all up. This patch turned out extra nice I thought....

Only one more fender to go. I hope to have the big tires on this coming weekend! Stay tuned!

[benjamin]

Wow...You do great work and the writeup and pics really show your talent.

Dennis

[Metcalf]

Thank you very much!

Its just metal though....I am pretty confident that anyone could do something like this. Most people are just too afraid they are going to mess something up. Once you get over the initial fear of cutting almost the entire side of your truck off it gets pretty simple :)

My best advise is to just get out and do it. I don't really have any fancy tools other than my welder. It's even a cheap 110V Northern welder that only cost me $400 delivered with an auto dark hood. I think people get to carried away thinking that they need $1000's of dollars of tools to do stuff like this.

Old trucks like this are cheap. Its a great way to learn. I think too many people get wrapped up in having the best and newest stuff. Worst case with this truck I'm only out a few thousands dollars if I just walked away from it today. I could part out the motor and drive train for more than I paid for it.
Its also paid for...so I don't have to worry about extra insurance, inspections, or resale.

If anyone needs any advise or encouragement please let me know!

[EuroJoe]

Metcalf, this is a great build, and the fact that it is 400$ welder and a hammer is great! i think i'll be looking for advice if i buy a truck next year, i could prob sell a cheap truck plus welder and parts to the misses, as better than buying a more expensive bit of kit. great build i look forward to the finish!

[Metcalf]

What is the old saying....."if its finished its for sale?"

I don't think it will ever be finished, but the bigger tires are the biggest step I think. Next is bumpers I think. I have a pretty good idea of what I am going to do with those.......

I am getting the other 3 big tires mounted up on the aluminum rims today after work....its going to be SOOOOO tempting to just put them on.

I have Thurs-Sunday to do the last front fender....well after work on Thursday and Friday.

Should be pretty dang cool to see it sitting on all 4 of the big tires!

I still need to get the front inner fenders sealed back up too. I think I am going to have to make a new air cleaner assembly to make some more room. I guess its a good time to upgrade also!

I am only just getting started!

[chasespeed]

I still need to get the front inner fenders sealed back up too. I think I am going to have to make a new air cleaner assembly to make some more room. I guess its a good time to upgrade also!



I dont remember what the 1st gen had for an air box(its been a while since I had mine).. BUT, I have a second gen box, if you wanna try and make something with that....

Keep it up man...

Chase

[Metcalf]

Thanks for the offer 'speed...

The 1st gen trucks have a simple air cleaner in the same place as the 3rd gen trucks. Its up by the headlight. I figure its a good time for an upgrade. I think I am going to do an Amsoil 4510 filter and pre-filter. I made the adapter I needed at work for the connection. I just need to make a mount for the air filter. I want something fairly open that secures the filter for vibrations. The under hood temps on the early trucks aren't nearly as high because there is so much room....so no real need for cold air induction or anything just yet.

I'm still working on it when I can...I seem to get the most done on weekends.

[Metcalf]

Things learned on a Thursday evening.....

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010046.jpg

This thing is going to be freaking wicked! Here is a sneak peak!

I couldn't stand it anymore! I had to mount up the big tires in the fenders I have already cut to see what it was going to look like after this weekends last fender modification.

One more....

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010059.jpg

I did also learn some things....

So I might have mounted up the rear tires first and taken it for a little spin to test out the gearing :) I really wanted to know how bad things where going to be with the 3.55 gears, 5-speed manual, and the big ol' tires. It was an interesting experience! Besides looking like a complete physco with 39s on the back and 31s on the front it was a great learning tool. I did my standard quick drive down to the highway and up to the top of the nearest little pass. This little test circuit always tells me a lot about how the truck drives with new modifications. Its also a pretty good test of gearing.

-First to head down the road loosing elevation towards the highway. Its about 3 miles or so and you loose a good bit of elevation in the process. Its a good test of what gear to use going down the hill. Generally in the past I have always been between finding a happy gear. With the little tires I could run 4th down the hill and not speed away too much. That was better than when I had the 315s on the truck....3rd was too low and 4th was much too high. With the 39s I found that 3rd gear works pretty well at keeping the truck at the speed limit. The rpms are a little high but not too bad.

-Once you get to the bottom of the hill you have to stop and turn onto a 65mph highway. There is a merging lane so you don't have to romp to get up to 65 if you don't want. Its always a good takeoff test and a 0-65 test. In the past this always works the truck a bit. With the 315s I would have to take off in 1st to get rolling than row through 2-4 before shifting into 5th at about 60mph or so. With the little 31s on the truck I would start in 2nd and row through 2-5. The truck always feels a little rapped out with the 31s. Its not that happy at 65 in 5th....or so it seemed. Now with the 39s I have to start in 1st for sure. I think 2nd is too high and would slip the clutch badly. 1st is now a pretty useable gear with the 39s. With the 35s it was still a little too low for anything, if you started in it you where just doing it to get rolling...then hitting 2nd. With the 39s you can start in 1st and use it as a full gear. I will have to watch the GPS to see what my shifting speed are for sure. You can tell the big tires are there...but its not that bad. The biggest loss in power 0-65 with the big tires is around 40mph or so....on the low end of 4th gear I think. The 3-4 shift is a little broad and you feel that with the big tires. Once you get up into the 50-65 range in 4th with the 39s the truck is right in the middle of its powerband. It doesn't seem like its over revving in 4th pushing 63-65.

-After you do the 0-65 merge onto the highway ( which is uphill by the way! ) you come up to a nice little hill that is about a mile long. It gains a few hundred feet at least. Its a great hill to test what gear you would go up mild 65mph passes. The truck easily went up it in 4th gear I could still gain speed easily and even passed a semi on the road at 65 or so. In the past with the 31s the truck would be in 5th and have plenty of power but just didn't feel right to me. With the 315s I could pull it in 5th but had to be going 65+, if I got stuck behind someone and had to slow down I would have to grab 4th gear and then it was a little too big of a jump to upshift.

-Once I got to the top of the hill I flipped around and headed home. I did another 0-65. It felt pretty good....1st is much more useful of a gear. Still plenty of takeoff power. Now I was going up the big hill I just came up in 4th. One of the biggest problems with the 31s was that you generally had to give it a little pedal to go down this hill at 65. The truck would not coast down the hill by itself at 65 in 5th with your foot of the accelerator. With the 315s I could coast down the hill with minimal pedal at 65. It was so bad with the 31s that I would often kick it into neutral to go down hills like this. The truck would coast at 65-75 like this....so its a pretty big hill. Now with the 39s I was able to kick it into 5th going down the hill and the truck would coast right at 64-66 with no accelerator. That was a nice little bonus. It was always a pain to kick it into neutral and then back to 5th on the flat.

-Now it was on across the flats for a mile or two and down a slight hill to the turn to the house. 5th gear worked great for this. The truck just loafs along at 65 on the flats in 5th, there is even one small uphill that it just loafed right up. I was pretty impressed that the truck would push itself along in 5th with the 39s and 3.55s at such a low rpm. The truck only has to be turning 1400-1500rpm at those speeds.

-Once you turn back onto the road leading up to the house it drops to 35mph and climbs back up about 3 miles to the house. This has always been a little bit of a finicky drive. With both the 315s and 31s I was always fighting between 3rd and 4th, especially on this one hill. Now with the 39s I was able to run 3rd gear at 35mph the entire way up to the house without thinking about downshifting at all. The truck was in a nice little sweet spot.


So that is what I learned about the gearing on my little gheto test drive with only the big rear tires on the truck. I am still laughing at what I must have looked like :D

I mounted up the one from tire to see what the truck would look like and snap some pics for you guys as a teaser. I did notice one thing. I took another picture of the front fender with tire. While I think everything would clear on the truck.....I think I may section another 3" out of only the front of the fender opening. I think that this would line up the lines better with the rear fenders. I will be able to lessen the angle on the trailing edge of the front bumper i am building also. What do you guys think?

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010050.jpg

I think the point where the fender ends should be ahead of the leading edge of the tire. To get the tire to clear I am going to have to taper the bumper a lot where it wraps around. Since I am doing the other fender this weekend now is a good time to make this change. I will only have to re-section the other fender on one side. I can also do this on the truck if I remove the airbox.

Other things I learned....

Even with near 39" tall tires the truck will still fit in a standard garage door.

The rear end needs to be 1.5" wider on each side or I need to tub out the rear a bit.

The tailgate has the feel of a bar instead of a table. I might need a few travel stools :) I need to skin the inside of the tailgate to make it a flat table.

The dogs are going to have to work to get in the back of the truck now!

I might need to build a step or ladder of sorts for the SO to get in the back. That is a bit of a climb now!

Cummins engines seem to like really weird gearing!

I can't wait to try some nice interstate to see how the truck feels at 75 in 5th......

I think 4th would still make a really good highway towing gear even with the 39s.

Oh....these tires make some noise! Not bad with the Cummins and the stright pipe but you can still hear them for sure!

[Metcalf]

Here is a quick photoshop of the re-sectioned front fender. I need to work out how much this is...but I would guess about 2-3".

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/frontresection.jpg

I think this allows the front fender line to flow a lot better....and it will provide more clearance overall and a smoother bumper transition.

[tlbrewer]

Been following your thread, but haven't commented. Great job and I agree on the photoshopped version of the front fender. Looks more "balanced" if you will.

Where in SW Colorado are you located by the way?

Tom

[Metcalf]

Thanks. I am located just outside Durango.

[tlbrewer]

Thanks. I am located just outside Durango.

Just a hop, skip, and a jump down the road.:smiley_drive:

Tom

[brettf]

^^ in Cortez, no? Home of Phil's World.

[Metcalf]

Shhhhhhhhh....don't tell anyone.

I removed, cut, sectioned, welded, and reinstalled the last fender today :) All four big tires are on.....first test drive done.

Update pictures tomorrow! I'm pooped...

[mopowa]

So do you still plan on lifting the truck a couple inches? This this is gonna look badass with all 4 tires on!

[Rot Box]

Update pictures tomorrow! I'm pooped...

The moment we've all been waiting for! Sure can't wait to see it :coffeedrink:

[Metcalf]

Weekend update.....a big milestone reached!

I was able to pound out the last fender this Saturday. I started about 9:30 in the morning and had the fender back on by 6:30 in the evening. Its not done by any means, but it is finished enough that I can install the final large tire.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/walkaround.gif

I tried to get the S.O. out of bed for some scale shots without luck. The truck is now a beast! It doesn't look like it in the pictures but this REALLY changed the trucks personality. In the pictures it still looks kinda stock and proportional, not so in real life. The hood now makes a great elbow rest!

I do like that the truck looks different. It almost looks out of scale or something. The tires are HUGE, but yet the truck still fits in the garage with room to spare.

Some more pics for you!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010080.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010068.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010072.jpg

I did end up taking 5 inches out of the front of the fender to improve the look. In the end I think 4 inches would have been perfect, but I don't think the extra inch is going to matter.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010073.jpg

I still have a ton of work to do on the inner fenders for sure! Joining the new outer section is going to be some work!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010078.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/P1010074.jpg

I do have full lock to lock steering in the front without the tires hitting on anything! I am going to push the inner fender open a little more when I patch it up. I think I can get more than enough room in there for the tire to move around when I get some more supple springs.

The test drive went well. I will have a more firm opinion in the next few weeks. All in all the 3.55 gears and 39s work out pretty dang well! It basically drives like a 5-speed now...instead of a 4-speed with a granny gear that you never use. I have to use 1st for takeoffs now but I can roll all the way through the gear instead of just using it just to get rolling. I also have to downshift to 4th for big hills now, 5th is a small hill, flats, and downhill gear. 4th gear will do good for towing. I can run 65 in 4th without any trouble. I would guess the engine is right at 1900-2000rpm.

Overall......I LIKE IT :wings:

[1speed]

I was thinking my brand new 35's looked too small on my truck, now I KNOW it! :Wow1: I may have to do something similiar to my front fenders when my tires wear out.
I love what you're doing with your truck! Keep it up.

[RgrBox]

Wow.. looking great.. what color your going to paint it..

[Metcalf]

I don't know for sure what color i want to paint the truck. I am pretty sure that it will be 'smoke grey' rustoleum. Once and a while i have delusions of painting it with something nice.

Anyone have any good paint/themes for the truck?

I have been thinking about mixing in a little desert prerunner in the mix....

35s......hehehhehe...cute tires :)

[1speed]

I don't know for sure what color i want to paint the truck. I am pretty sure that it will be 'smoke grey' rustoleum. Once and a while i have delusions of painting it with something nice.

Anyone have any good paint/themes for the truck?

I have been thinking about mixing in a little desert prerunner in the mix....

35s......hehehhehe...cute tires :)

Well I had an idea for paint, but now I'm not going to tell you because you made fun of my tires!:shakin:

[Metcalf]

35s are perfectly nice tires.....I might run some on my little flatfender someday :)

I did the first tow test today. I needed to haul a few loads of water to the house. I use the free trailer and a 425 gallon tank. That comes out to about 3500-4000 lbs.

Even with the 39s and 3.55 gears the truck did fine. In some respects it did better, less need to shift between gears. I don't think I can use 5th when towing but 4th gear at 65mph is only like 2000rpm.

[Rot Box]

Looks like all that work really paid off! :drool:

So whats next? From the looks of things its time to hit the trail :jump:

[Metcalf]

Next.....it never ends!

Short list...
-Exhaust system that doesn't exit under the body :)
-Finish the inner fenders in front.
-Tub the rear.
-Start the rear bumper ( which includes trimming the lower corners in back )

Farther out....
-Keep working on the body to get it mostly smooth.
-Primer the entire truck
-Paint the entire truck
-Do something for seats...the bench is killing me.

We are taking it to moab for some camping in a few weeks as a first test.

[Metcalf]

Well you guys aren't helping with paint ideas at all! :)

Here is another pic for scale and ideas....

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/IMAG0037.jpg

Come on guys....I need ideas!

Paint color and theme ideas please....

[Bugetexpedition]

Metcalf, I am painting my big truck now (Project Steel Walrus). Do yourself a favor, keep it simple. I chose a color of Tan that I found in the spray paint isle of Home Depot. No, I did not spray the truck with the Rustoleum. Instead I sprayed out a test card and took it to my local automotive paint shop. went through their book and picked a paint that matched and had them mix up a couple of qts of the color (urethane that uses a clear coat).

I did this for one reason. If I get a chip or have some damage that I just want to quick fix, I bust out the spray can and give it a quick touch up. The scheme I am following is very similar to the new Toyota FJ tan and white.

[ntsqd]

This first hit on a MOPAR car forum somewhere. A more dedicated search than mine might find it.
http://www.instructables.com/id/The-Poor-Mans-Paint-Job-or...-How-to-paint-your-c/

A friend painted one of his old trucks in a gray that looked a bit like concrete or glossy gray primer depending on the light and the eye. He decided to go for an "granite look" and busted out the detail gun. Ran it low pressure, high volume, and used a rapid on/off hand technique so that it splattered black and a darker gray all over the truck. Ended up looking more like "enamelware" than granite.

[benjamin]

You could make a visit to your local auto paint supplier and see what colors they have that were mixed wrong or not quite the right tint. They normally sell for a fraction of the normal cost.

Dennis

[Layonnn]

im a fan of the desert tan paint jobs on vehicles. like those being shipped to the mid east.

http://www.armybase.us/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/mrap.jpg

[Rusty-Ford]

Love the truck, great job on the fenders, tires are AWESOME! and i too vote military paint

[Metcalf]

I am being steered AWAY from tan as much as possible...as in I would be sleeping in the truck ALONE if I painted it tan. Something about every car in her families history being tan :)

That being said.....

What about something a little retro AND prerunner :)

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=29391&d=1244653052

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=29392&d=1244653052

[Rot Box]

I like tan but I think you would be better off with a color that matches your Colorado surroundings :elkgrin:


Anyway with those tires I would go for the M880 look. Late 70's painted grill and a military paint scheme. Flat green paint with on black exhaust stack with Caterpillar style turnout and a snorkle... Hmm... what do you think?

[Bugetexpedition]

Dude, that old school prerunner paint scheme is perfect. Absolutely do that.

:victory::wings::victory::wings::wings::victory::w ings::wings:

[1speed]

I like the old school pre runner look too. :drool: Just use some of the flat metallics or pearls from here to make it really unique! http://www.tcpglobal.com/kustomshop/ksflatz.aspx

[ntsqd]

You could make a visit to your local auto paint supplier and see what colors they have that were mixed wrong or not quite the right tint. They normally sell for a fraction of the normal cost.

Dennis
That is how my friend got the "cement" paint. I'll try to find a pic of the truck.

[tlbrewer]

I like the old Dodges in military paint too. If tan is out, how about a monochromatic flat brown? Hides the dirt better too.:elkgrin:

Tom

[Metcalf]

According to the almighty decision maker brown is just dark tan :)

I don't think I am going to do flat paint. I already have a military themed vehicle.

Honestly this truck is turning out good enough that I don't want it to blend in. Not that you can really blend in with tires this big! It does get a lot of second looks though. People have the look on there face like they just can't tell why the HUGE tires fit and the truck isn't super tall.

I thought this one guy in a black shortbed 92ish dodge was going to wreak when he drove by it. His truck was very lifted with much smaller tires than I am running.

[ntsqd]

I'm still voting for a light to medium gray. Perhaps with blue accents? Like the bumpers etc.

[02TahoeMD]

Couple a things!

A. Nice Rig, very well done. Your fab skills are most impressive. :Wow1:
B. I am so jealous of where you live, the Durango area is probably my favorite part of Colorado. I have to drive 2 days just to get there. And then I have to go home. :(
C. My vote is to go with a paint scheme like the uber-cool Ramcharger. But, instead of tan, use a medium blue with the black upper, or medium blue with a grey upper. And maybe a maroon stripe to contrast.


Ok, that was a few things. Sweet build, looking forward to the finished result.

[Metcalf]

Thank you!

Yes, I am very lucky to be living in this area! It is most excellent!

Finished....hahhahhahahahhhaha.....if I can't come up with another way to improve it, modify it, or whatever it will be for sale! :D

I am going to make an outline drawing of the truck ( need to find a good picture ) and do some chip foose style renderings to see what colors pop out.

I have a lot of body work to go....so I have some time to make up my mind, or change it over and over and over :)

[tlbrewer]

Ok then. Bright *** yellow! my favorite color.

Tom

[Scott39]

I got a great color for you. This is my old blazer, RIP:sombrero:
I bought my blazer this color, but it is two colors mixed together the Army uses.
The guy who painted it, used Kaki (desert tan), and mixed in some Olive drap (green).
I think it was a great combo, and when I build another blazer, I will be painting it the same.
http://i44.tinypic.com/6p94sz.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/jh3uc7.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/mttiqv.jpg

[Metcalf]

Minor update....

I installed a simple exhaust turn out in front of the rear tire. I couldn't take the chopped of stock pipe dumping under the cab/bed area. I didn't have time to build my full 4" system yet so its just a temp fix. It did make a pretty good difference in noise...the truck is much nicer to drive now. I also don't have to worry about sticking the dogs in the back.

I also glued some cheap grey carpet over the sleeping platform in the back so the airbed won't pop itself. The dogs will also appreciate it so they have something to keep them from sliding around back there.

Sorry, no pictures yet. I will take some thing weekend in Moab. We are going over for a few days of camping/climbing/biking. If your going to be in the area PM me or flag me down.

I really need to get the front inner fenders buttoned up when I get back. Once I get that done I can start on the rear bumper. I snagged two 4x8 sheets of cardboard to make my models out of yesterday. I hope that I will be able to make the front and rear bumpers out of one sheet of material along with a little 2x4 tubing in the rear. I also need to get something coming for the rocker guards. I need to buy a winch for the front before I get to carried away on the bumper. I want a really tight fit with the winch and I don't think I can get it pattered out without having the winch on hand.

Sorry that I had to slow down a little bit...life gets in the way sometimes :)

More soon!

[Metcalf]

Moab weekend update....

Points of interest from this weekend's trip to Moab for testing...

-The first two tanks of fuel are finally through the truck. The first tank was from the past two weeks of commuting, hauling water, and mixed driving in town.....that was 17.1 mpg. The second tank was driving back and forth to moab at 65-70mph, driving around town, etc......that was 22.18! I am pretty happy with that for sure!

-The gearing in the truck is OK. If i wasn't so picky, I wouldn't be thinking about 3.73s to replace the 3.55s. I think this will be as close to perfect gearing as I can get without swapping in a different transmission. 3.73s are also pretty easy to find in GM 14-bolts...which is one of the axles I have been looking at for the truck. The SRW FF 14-bolts are about 1" wider per side than my existing rear axle. This should hopefully eliminate the need to tub out the rear just yet. One of the goals for this project was to build and affordable vehicle so I don't want to get into using all sorts of rare parts.

-The camper system worked out pretty well overall. Especially for a $100 camper shell and a $50 sleeping platform. I do have a long list of things that I can see changing in the future. The S.O. definitely wants more headroom in the camper. I have come up with a novel idea, that I hope to implement, to allow the stock looking roof line/camper shell, but allow a good deal more headroom when in 'camping' mode.

-I think I finally came up with a way to install the LoMax 3:1 gearing set for the NP205 transfer case. This truck is most likely going to get pushed harder than most so I really need the lower gearing. I think a 3:1 in the transfer case along with the 3.73s in the diffs will give me what I want. This equates to 60:1 low range gearing. While not super extreme, I think it will give enough performance with the Cummins to do what I want.

-I also devised a really neat seating arrangement for the cab. My S.O is a road napper so I needed to find a comfortable way for her to sleep in a single cab truck while on the highway. This will be implemented when I install the new seats in the truck. I will be using some suspension style fixed back off road seats in the front. More to come.

-The new temporary exhaust dump made a world of difference on the highway as far as noise goes. Its still a 12V Cummins but you can still carry on a conversation in the truck without yelling :) Note: I need to charge the A/C.....driving around with the windows down negates all previous statements about noise!

Every time I drive the truck I come up with some new and different ideas for it! Its a never ending process!

[chet]

I found the cab of the dodge the smallest of the the big 3. Sleeping in the pass side was a major pain for a 6' person like myself!

[Metcalf]

I have got a plan for the sleeping passenger seat. The S.O. is only 5'7" and 125 soaking wet....so we have a little more room to play with. I can't sleep in the car generally....like ever.

The plan is to build a mount for a fixed back suspension seat that allows the seat to slide forward and backwards on a normal seat track ( independent of the drivers seat ). When you want to sleep you slide the seat forward and then it pivots back on the rear mounting point. This creates a 'lounger' style feel to the seat which we find MUCH more comfortable for sleeping than just reclining the seat. As an added bonus I would like to have a small padded leg rest pivot out like a recliner from the end of the seat. This supports your lower leg and should allow you to sleep very comfortable.

Also, this system will should allow you to sleep with the seat belt attached. I may be upgrading to a 4-point fixed shoulder system instead of the factory 3-point retractable.

I have most of the mechanism for the seat mount figured out. The only thing that is being kinda challenging is the flip up leg rest.

[Bugetexpedition]

Metcalf. Any updates?

[Metcalf]

Nothing new to report.....

Its still working just fine. We just moved about 20 minutes closer to town in the last few weeks. Overall I am still very impressed with the truck.

I will be working on it some this weekend I hope. All my tools are still packed and a need to put my welder back together.

The truck will be getting a full SVO/WVO two tank system in the near future. I have been blending since I got the truck with good success. The next logical step is going to a full WVO system. Its going to be really nice to be able to take almost free trips. Any insight on using SVO/WVO would be much appreciated.

I'll be back...don't worry!

[92 red cummins]

you made a good choice I have a 1992 dodge. They have all the power you could need. Also they get about 20 mpg's(stock). That truck is awesome!!!:smiley_drive:

[Rot Box]

The truck will be getting a full SVO/WVO two tank system in the near future.

Cool! Cant wait to see how that turns out :elkgrin:

fyi I just installed a 12cm wastegated exhaust housing (that I scored for free!) on my 92 and I couldn't be more pleased. I now build boost right off bottom and it holds untill redline all without getting any higher egt's so far. It works great offroad compared to the 21cm that came stock--I figured I'd recomend it as it made a huge difference. There are better options but if you can find one for close to the price I did then I think you'd really like it...

[Darwin]

The truck will be getting a full SVO/WVO two tank system in the near future. I have been blending since I got the truck with good success. The next logical step is going to a full WVO system. Its going to be really nice to be able to take almost free trips. Any insight on using SVO/WVO would be much appreciated.
Blending is a good way to kill a motor especially one that is designed to last 300K. I personally would not do it but then again it's not a still under warranty 03 cummins.

I am assuming you have been testing the oil for water by using the hot pan test or other method?

[Metcalf]

I have been looking for a turbo upgrade. I think i will end up going with a HE351cw off an 04.5-07 truck. I thought about the 12cm upgrade but didn't hear good things about towing with it.....

The oil was water tested, long duration cold settled, and separated carefully. It was also blended and filtered to 1 micron. I had good success overall. I was slightly nervous about it but never got so much as one hick-up. These old mechanical injected trucks are pretty tough.

The 2-tank SVO system in the next logical step for me. I am also considering building a bio-diesel processor but I can't figure out a good way to dispose of the glycerin.

[PapeCAT]

Hello, Metcalf/Mieser

I am taking inspiration for your low/no lift big tires idea...

I have a couple options.. I have Similar 16" alloys like you have, but I believe they are only 7 or 8" wide... How wide are your alloys? Wondering if the XMLs will fit.

I have some 16.5x10" Alloys old school mags that are beefy that I could put some hummer H1 37X12.50 R16.5 tires on as well but I love the XML.

[Metcalf]

My wheels are only 8" wide. They seem to work well with the michelin tires at 30psi in front and 25psi in the rear. The tires seem to wear nice and flat like that. These tires are rated at 5000lbs per tire at max pressures so don't freak out about the lower pressures on the street, even with the heavy Cummins over them.

I think a 9" wheel would be perfect for these tires, and I think that is what Michelin specs out for them.

I love the tires so far. Zero complaints.

Finding tires this big, for a decent cost, and that are radials was pretty hard. If you can find any decent sets of the 325s I would snatch them up.

I am still looking for a single tire or two for spares.

What kind of truck at your running papecat?

[MNcummins]

PapeCat, are you over on the DTR site too? I am Paul S. over there.. I am running 9.00x16 Superlugs on my stock steelie's with just Skyjacker leveling springs on the front (2.5") of my 93 W250. They rub a bit in extreme situations but short of that I love them...

[PapeCAT]

Hi Paul, yes I'm on DTR and TDR and Pirate4x4 and 1stgen.org as well... haha

sounds like a great plan... well I was just over at 100dollarman's place today and picked up 5 37" MTs for the 16.5 wheels I have and they look meaty.. I plan on keeping it low.

Meiser, I'm building a 1972 power wagon crew cab cummins conversion. Basically the way it sits now it has burly double wrap springs at the front eylet on the front springs, D60F/D70 4:10 LS out of a 1990 dodge diesel underneath, divorced 205, 3spd brownie... Rig has a lot of history to it. I'm sourcing a PTO winch for it as well that runs off the tcase... It originally had an electric winch fabbed underneath but it won't fit with the cummins.

I originally wanted to go 4x4 5sp out of my 1990 w250 donor but I changed my mind when I bought my 1993 w250 5sp 60K mile rig. Now I want an auto to romp around in the brush and beat up a bit and just use the 1993 as a tow / long haul rig. (not to mention that the 2wd 727 route will be a bolt n go cummins conversion with no fab haha - truck originally had the 360/727 ...)

So I'm looking for a non I/c 1989/1990 cummins with 2wd 727 attached... I'll keep the brownie and divorced T case, and all the drivelines, however they'll prolly need to be upgraded with 1410 yokes etc... at least with the slushbox there won't be as much dynamic loading on the driveline with all that monkey motion happening between the 727/tcase/brownie/rear axle...

Here's a pic of where it was when I started, and where it is now... just stripped down basically.. I haven't made much progress.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w183/papecat/P1000215.jpg?t=1248482393

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w183/papecat/P1010004.jpg?t=1248482421

Sorry for jackin your thread with my pics.

[92 red cummins]

I saw that truck on 1st gen.org. That will be a nice truck with a cummis in it and it will be a 4 door truck !:drool::smiley_drive:

[Metcalf]

Sadly this truck project slowed down a bit with the move to the new house.

I did take the truck up to the high country for a camping trip last weekend. It did great as always. Above 11,000 feet the engine starts to get pretty boggy. I do need to do something about the turbo.

On the one hand this truck drives like stock, on the other hand it has 39" tires. Honestly its very stealthy. It doesn't look like that big of a truck till you park it next to something else or get up close to it. I watched the girlfriend drive it around the other day when I was moving the Willy's to the new house. Then it looked freaking great!

My plans are pretty much the same.....I just need to find more time to work on it. It is truly hard to work on the truck with the weather so nice!

I'll be back with more soon I hope.

Keep asking questions and giving suggestions! That really helps me get motivated.

[sprale]

This reminds me of the truck my dad had when I was a kid. It was a '70's Ford F100, mostly stock. He built a bed and storage space under a similar shell. We went from Missouri to Guatemala and back one summer. It's amazing how little you really need to enjoy yourself.

[BlueBomber]

Keep asking questions and giving suggestions! That really helps me get motivated.

hows it going??? your truck is looking awesome. how about getting some more off-road pics up?? how about instead of a new turbo, you inject propane? then you can mount a grill on the truck!!!!!! see win-win! extra performane and a simple kitchen.:D

edit: maybe you can make it a part of the tailgate. when you lower the tail gate, you unlatch the back cover and it turns into the backsplash. that way its not in the way and easy to get to. see more reasons to inject propane....

[Metcalf]

Oh it goes....slowly....very slowly.

I had thought about using a fumigant. I would really like to try natural gas but there is not a fill station anywhere around here. Living just outside one of the largest natural gas fields in the country you would think they would be more prevalent. Sometimes I just the energy economy dumb....

While propane works, and would make a great addition for a grill. I don't really have the room in the truck.

Stay tuned for the SVO/WVO 2-tank system. I think this will be pretty dang sweet. I had ZERO problems blending, and this will be much better. The system is going to be a very simple mechanical system that should work well on a rugged expedition/tow/haul truck like this. Now that we are living much closer to town our main fuel expense is just long trips. With the conversion even that cost goes way down. Once the truck is warm I can drive around all day for free. I am just going to be starting and shutting down on #2. Someday I may make the move to making BioDiesel to fill those needs, but I still have issues with disposing of the BioDiesel waste streams and buying chemicals ( and storing them ).

I finally scrounged up some steel for a welder cart too.....a project I have been putting off for way too long.

Then it will most likely be onto a rear bumper with some more body mods back there. The front bumper needs to be built around the winch...so I need to round one of those up too.

Its slow for sure. Sorry. Sometimes life gets in the way.

[Metcalf]

Micro update.

I stripped the factory front bumper off and promptly threw it in the dumpster. I got out the cardboard and started mocking up the new bumper. After a good deal of thought I think that I will be doing something much more simple. The front end of the dodge has a big radius on the lower part of the grill. Its actually a really nice aesthetic feature for such a large and boxy truck. Instead of trying to do something super complicated and labor intensive I am going to do something simple, light, and clean.

For the front bumper I am going to take a piece of 2x4 or 2x6 box tubing and try and form it into a large radius to match the lower edge of the grill. I think I am going to do this by saw cutting through to the back of the forward face. With enough of these saw cuts I should be able to impart a large radius bend in the tube using the saw kerf space. I need to do some trig and find out how many cuts I need to make at what spacing to get the radius I want. Once I make the radius I will just weld up all the cuts and sand them down flat. Once done it will look just like a large radius bend.

I will also taper the ends down to about 2" tall from the frame to the end. I may also try and build a wrap around feature to the ends....

So this new design for the front bumper raises some questions. What do do for the winch? I don't have room to cleanly mount the winch up front like I want. I can either do a multi-mount system or a hard mounted rear winch. Other ideas or opinions?

The other area I have not been happy with lately is the rear sleeping platform. This was a cheap experiment ($40 ) so I am not too upset about changing thing around.

With the rear sleeping platform its seems that the truck looses a good deal of its capacity as a 'truck' to saw. I find myself needing/wanting to haul stuff in the back while either not having the room or having to really work around the sleeping platform.

The camper shell also adds to this frustration sometimes.

I think I may change the rear sleeping setup to a twin cot system where the cots roll up and store against each frame rail. This way the entire volume of the truck would be open for storage/transportation/hauling. Also, I can only use one cot when its just me or me and a dog. This will open up some more room to move around.

I will most likely install a 4x8 sheet of plywood that is covered in marine carpet on the bed floor for the dogs to walk/sleep/ride on. Plus it would be nice not to have to stand on the cold bed floor in the back when camping.

For a future project....or someone following this....

-I would probably use a soft top convertible style camper/topper that I could take up and down by myself...or that the S.O can take up and down. This would let me carry bigger items that won't fit in the shell.

-I would install a 4x8 sheet of plywood on the floor covered in marine carpet to walk on. Maybe sealed marine plywood so it can get wet and snowy with the top down. Being able to pressure wash it would be nice.

-Build a dual cot system that was somewhat modular. One cot, the other, or both. The 'cots' would roll up and store at the bed rails, maybe even tucked under them.

[92 red cummins]

does your truck have a sway bar? If so have you removed it?

[Metcalf]

No swaybar on my truck. It looks like at one time there could have been, but I venture to say its long gone.

Note: I haven't felt the need for a sway-bar at all. I have some rather stiff front springs however that lifted the front of the truck a few inches. At some point I would like to get a set of quality springs and shocks on the truck.

Do you think you need a swaybar?

[ntsqd]

Maybe build the cots to be part of the shell, so that they come on and off with it?

I used indoor/outdoor carpet from Lowes in the bed of my '84 Mini. I've had to replace it once in 15 years, but more due to some 90wt. finding it's way into it than anything else. Highly suggest painting/sealing the plywood underlay. Then the 90wt. spill won't seep into that too......

I leave the rear of the carpet loose so that it can be pushed/folded back out of the way when something grimy or full of 90wt. needs to be hauled.

[92 red cummins]

Mine has a sway bar but my dads (just like mine) doesnt.:confused:

[DEEZLPWR]

i took both sway bars off my cummins and i dont feel much difference, it flexes nicely and it smoothed out the ride a bit too.

[Metcalf]

Micro update....

I finally re-cut the passenger side fender so it would match the drivers fender. I also started on the inner fenders. This is by far the hardest thing I have done on the truck this far. I got the front passenger side done so I could build a new air cleaner system. The old stock system will not work with the new larger inner fender and outer fender. I am leaning toward doing one of the new Volant Powercore air cleaners. They are expensive, but are suppose to last 100K and are suppose to flow really well while filtering out all the little stuff.

http://www.volantpowercore.com/powercore_filter_detail.asp?ID=7

This is the one I am going to order this week. I think they are around $90 or so. Ouch. They are suppose to last a really long time however. You can also clean them by lightly tapping or blowing low pressure air back through the filter. Building a bracket to hold it in will be easy enough.

http://www.volantpowercore.com/admin/Tfile/FILE/Powercore/Filter/PC61502Med.jpg

On the daily driving front.

I really like this concept in a truck. The low center of gravity and super large tires really makes for a neat truck. By keeping the suspension stock and making room for the tires it really does drive much like stock. Even with the 3.55 gears and 39s its returning 20mpg on average on my daily commute back and forth to town/work.

I really want to get the body on the truck straightened out a bit, sand it down, primer it, and spray it one color. That seems to be the project I just can't bring myself to do. My excuse is that it is monsoon season here and I don't have much good weather after work......excuses excuses. I don't really even care if the body is perfectly straight, I just want it one color. Anyone want to have a body work party :)

I could never run out of things to do on this truck.....

[BlueBomber]

cool filter. do you think a pre-filter would extend its life?

[toyrunner95]

That looks alot like the Dodges the Air Force used in the 50s and 60s for the b-52 bomber crews. It could haul all 6 guys and their gear to the plane on a scramble.

[Metcalf]

The truck has 'air force' doors on it that supposedly came off a six-pack dodge truck on a base in new mexico. Then the dodge went to a fire station after that. There are stickers over the air force logo in the paint. Funny.

[DWitcher]

Fantastic build man!:beer: Just went through the post and found myself finally deciding on what to do with all this junk laying around. I've got a 92 D250 with a Cummins and a D60 from a 86 GMC. Guess what:smiley_drive: Its 4x4 time. Any more up dates?

[pint]

Keep up the great work. This truck is insane! My head is spinning with ideas...

[Metcalf]

Hi everyone! :)

Sorry I slowed down so much. Don't think I don't use the truck! I just got back from a 1500 mile thanksgiving road warrior trip. The truck keeps going and going and going! I have been doing some little stuff as time allows. I sealed up part of the inner fenders and made a new air cleaner mount. Hopefully I will have some more stuff to post soon....

[Scott39]

I understand that, I haven't been able to do anything to my truck right now either.

Yep, these Cummins just keep going, I wouldn't trade mine for any other truck out there.

[Rot Box]

Funny, I went for a bit of a cruise the other day in my 92 and started thinking about your build. Do you still run the large tires daily? Good to hear it is still getting used :coffeedrink:

[Metcalf]

yup, every day cruising around on the 39s :)

[Scott39]

Hi everyone! :)

Sorry I slowed down so much. Don't think I don't use the truck! I just got back from a 1500 mile thanksgiving road warrior trip. The truck keeps going and going and going! I have been doing some little stuff as time allows. I sealed up part of the inner fenders and made a new air cleaner mount. Hopefully I will have some more stuff to post soon....
Do you know what kind of mpg's you got with them 39's? And what gears are you running?

[Metcalf]

I'm still running the stock 3.55s with the 38.5" true height tires.

I got an average of 18.X on the entire trip with a best of 21.2mpg and a worst of 17.4mpg.

In general if I drive under 63 I get 20+, if I drive 75-80 on the interstate I get in the 17-18 range.

I think the perfect gearing will be 3.73 gears with the 5-spd manual transmission. I will be changing the rear axle to a slightly wider 14-bolt GM axle when I get an opportunity. 4.10s would work just fine also at the expense of speed on the highway. When I was running 35s and 3.55s I felt like the truck needed more legs on the interstate. The big tires fixed that no problem :)

My engine is also basically stock, just an open element air cleaner and a 3" straight pipe. Living in colorado I REALLY need to install a smaller exhaust housing or change the turbo out. I have my eye out for a 04.5-06 he351cw Dodge turbo but haven't come across a good enough deal yet. That turbo should spool MUCH better and support all the power I can get out of the VE pump.

[Scott39]

I'm still running the stock 3.55s with the 38.5" true height tires.

I got an average of 18.X on the entire trip with a best of 21.2mpg and a worst of 17.4mpg.

In general if I drive under 63 I get 20+, if I drive 75-80 on the interstate I get in the 17-18 range.

I think the perfect gearing will be 3.73 gears with the 5-spd manual transmission. I will be changing the rear axle to a slightly wider 14-bolt GM axle when I get an opportunity. 4.10s would work just fine also at the expense of speed on the highway. When I was running 35s and 3.55s I felt like the truck needed more legs on the interstate. The big tires fixed that no problem :)

My engine is also basically stock, just an open element air cleaner and a 3" straight pipe. Living in colorado I REALLY need to install a smaller exhaust housing or change the turbo out. I have my eye out for a 04.5-06 he351cw Dodge turbo but haven't come across a good enough deal yet. That turbo should spool MUCH better and support all the power I can get out of the VE pump.

I like my 4:10s on the mtn passes here in Co. I also have a Gear Vendor overdrive in my truck, it was on the truck when I bought it.
I wouldn't want to run my truck without the OD and 35", 35" are still not tall enough for 4:10s. My OD is just like a 6pd. it really drops my rpms. And without any big load on my truck, I can run Loveland pass or any other passes at any speed I want using the OD.
I do plan on going with 38" tires when my 35" wear out.
I have my fuel plate all the way forward, and a after market air filter, the rest of the truck is stock.

Is it better to go with the turbo out of the newer Dodge's? I haven't read anything yet over on the Cummins forum's, not enough time.

[Metcalf]

Sometimes I wish I had more gears, but all in all the truck works really well for what I have invested. My IDEAL no money barred combo would be a G56 close ratio 6-speed mated to a 3:1 geared LoMax transfer case and 3.73 gears in the diffs with the 38.5" tall Michelins.

My budget plan is going to be to change the gearing to 3.73s and live with the 5-speed. I think I will be adding the 3200rpm governer spring to help cover the gap between gears and pick up more mid range power. I would also like to upgrade the turbo with a 12cm housing OR the 04.5-07 he351cw if I can find one. Down the road I would like to try a set of mild injectors, basically just to have matched and rebuilt injectors....not for more power....but a little more power would be nice :) I know one I start adding power I won't stop though!

I have to say though. I have been really impressed with this truck. Yes, you can find better bits and pieces on other trucks, but for an off the showroom combination of parts I don't think you can do better than the 91-93 dodge trucks. I would recommend them to anyone looking for a real workhorse.

[justduck]

I

Is it better to go with the turbo out of the newer Dodge's? I haven't read anything yet over on the Cummins forum's, not enough time.

Leave the stock turbo, go with larger injectors, 3000 RPM gov springs, a good fuel plate kit and the waste gate eliminator elbow. The change will blow your mind.

The stock gov springs start to reduce fueling at 2200 RPM, you can wind it to 3k, but it's like using half throttle to get there. With the 3k springs it's a whole new game. Same with the boost control elbow. At full throttle I am now running 32 lbs. of boost. I am using a pretty radical fuel plate (TST #5) and can get the EGT in the red zone pretty quickly, but by then I've blown by the moho that was grinding up the hill at 50mph. Don't do any of this without an EGT probe mounted in the exhaust manifold ( not after the turbo).

[trailrunner]

hey with regards to the paint, i think you should keep the old weather beaten look, leave the stickers on there, i just think that it gives the truck way more character, you always see trucks painted nice, but you rarely see a truck with true character. just my $.02

[DWitcher]

Great to see the truck still chuggin' along.

[dieselcruiserhead]

Very neat Metcalf catching up on this after a few months away.. Great build, psyched to see how it all comes out.. tndiesel.com does a rebuilt injector that is a mild upgrade that is awesome. Piers also has their Bosch 190s that gave me more power and mileage with my 4BT... Good luck with the turbo swap also and as you know its just a couple turns of some screws for a little more power...

[Metcalf]

Thank you for the compliments. Its not done yet at all. I feel like I got stuck half way through! It does everything I ask though, and does it on a very small amount of money.

I hope I can get a front bumper with a winch together soon!

If it would only stop snowing in Colorado! :)

[Maximus Ram]

Sweet build.
HAve you decided on paint yet ? How about Hemi Orange ? It wouuld stand out from the crowd..

http://www.hotroddynamics.com/528%20Hemi%20Dart/DSC04481.JPG

[Scott39]

Very neat Metcalf catching up on this after a few months away.. Great build, psyched to see how it all comes out.. tndiesel.com does a rebuilt injector that is a mild upgrade that is awesome. Piers also has their Bosch 190s that gave me more power and mileage with my 4BT... Good luck with the turbo swap also and as you know its just a couple turns of some screws for a little more power...
Hyjack on. I would like to know more about the screw to turn up my 12bt on my 95'.
More info please.
Hyjack off.:sombrero:

[dieselcruiserhead]

On a '95 it is a little different as you have a different pump. What I would say is look into a fuel plate. They install very easily and is your biggest power increase.. Injectors also can't hurt either but for a small increase usually stock injectors are just fine.. There is tons and tons of info out there on the 'net about it that is hopefully not too confusing...

[Scott39]

On a '95 it is a little different as you have a different pump. What I would say is look into a fuel plate. They install very easily and is your biggest power increase.. Injectors also can't hurt either but for a small increase usually stock injectors are just fine.. There is tons and tons of info out there on the 'net about it that is hopefully not too confusing...
Not confusing at all. I knew my pump was different, but wasn't sure if I could turn it up with the screw thingy.
I moved my fuel plate forward and that gave me some power, and then I put in a new air filter, and that was a bigger increase than the fuel plate.
I would like to make a lot more power down low, and try to keep some of my MPGs.
Ive seen lots of info over on the cummins board, but I think there is almost to much. I'm probably going to add 75 or above injectors, exhaust, and not much else.
Thanks a lot for the info.

[DWitcher]

Buy a #10 plate and some 3K rpm Gov'nr springs and you'll love that truck. I had a 95 (175hp) 5spd and those mods really woke it up.

[Metcalf]

Dang it....stop talking about your fancy p-pump trucks in my thread! :) My truck is going to get jealous!

If you have a low horse p-pump talk to Garmon Diesel. They have a set of governer springs and big injectors that will BLOW YOUR MIND! The secret to p-pump trucks is tuning the AFC so that you don't get too much smoke down low. Tune it correctly with the right turbo and you can make BIG power with very little smoke. The mileage is great if you keep your foot out too.

Now....no more p-pump talk unless you want to come over and install a p-pump motor in my truck!

[chasespeed]

HAHAHA, be happy with your rotary VE pump... they start easier, among other things..... so, you cant make HUGE power with one... big deal.... mine makes plenty of power, and I find myself wishing I had stock injectors, turbo, etc etc more often then not.....

In fact, I have entertained trading my truck, for a stock one, with a QCab....

Chase

[dieselcruiserhead]

Metcalf if you haven't seen this this might be some good inspiration as well.. :)
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=448507

[dieselcruiserhead]

Photos from the build (unreal)...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=358251&stc=1&d=1205272317

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=358268&stc=1&d=1205281805

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=359002&stc=1&d=1205539172


http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=359009&stc=1&d=1205539942

[Metcalf]

yeah, that's a good one. Too complicated for me :)

[PapeCAT]

I have a few months on the shaft as I am writing this. It doesn't vibrate at all. I wouldn't suggest going 100mph in 4wd but I feel very comfortable going 60 mph in 4hi. In all reality this truck is heavy enough and has a long enough wheelbase that I don't use 4wd over about 30mph in most cases.

I really like the fact that one spare 1410 u-joint will fit either the front or rear drive shaft at either the transfer case or the pinion. The slip yokes will also swap front to rear if I ever need to do that.

One quick question, since the dodge D60F front axles were made to work with the CV style shaft, the pinion was rotated up to point directly at the shaft. I've got a fully divorced np205 and a 1990 W250 D60F on my crew cab and am just considering lengthening the CV shaft for that purpose. Did you stick an inclinometer on on the tcase and front axle yokes? What was the difference in angles? Currently I wouldn't consider running a standard shaft up front on my rig due to the yokes being out of phase. But the idea of having 1410 pieces on all of the driveline is nice...

[Metcalf]

My truck was slightly lifted in the front so the pinion angles where not stock.

I would say my t-case U-joint has a few degrees (2-3) more angle than the pinion U-joint. I haven't noticed any problems at all with it like that. I have run 50-60mph all day with the front hubs turned in without any issues. Other than a slight loss in power from the drag of the front axle turning, its not a big deal. Generally if I am going to be going over 60mph I turn the front hubs out.

Its not 100% perfect, but it works very well. I like the ability to have the 1410 front drive shaft for strength. Being able to use one u-joint for a spare is very nice also.

I really wish I could stop driving this dang thing so I could work on it more! This weekend is the first Moab trip of the year and its going to be the tow/haul/camp rig.

[PapeCAT]

Cool thanks for the reply. I'm sure you wouldn't notice any vibe issues when the t case isn't engaged even if the front hubs are locked as long as your shaft was balanced. Even though the yokes are out of phase by a few degrees, the tcase side will just spin unevenly (freely) in the case with no issue as there isn't a constant velocity driving the yoke when it is in 2wd. But engage the tcase under load and you might feel a vibe? I guess the worst case scenario would be front wheel drive only up a long grade at highway speed with a load, that would be the test... :Wow1: Nice rig, have a good Moab trip, I went there a couple years ago but haven't been able to make it out since.

[Metcalf]

I've run the truck up to 50-55mph towing in 4wd without any issues. You can feel the front end is engaged, but I don't get any big vibes. My shaft wasn't balanced, but I used seamless tubing and it was only 0.005 out at most after welding. The yokes where also aligned on a VERY flat surface.

I would go with the simple shaft and not worry about it too much. Its very nice not having to worry about rebuilding a CV in the field.

I also upgraded to u-bolt style yokes on the t-case and from axle which gives me a little more peace of mind. I will be adding u-bolts to the rear yokes when I get a chance.

With the dodge np205 I have the front and rear yokes are both 32 spline units so that part is also common front to back. I think I can even use the front slip yoke on the rear if I needed to. Its REALLY nice having strong and common parts on the truck, it just gives me that many more options in the back country if something where to go wrong.

[PapeCAT]

Well I checked the angle on the pinions again and guess what, the thing has about 8 Degrees difference between yokes! :Wow1: But the good news is the axle pinion is pointing straight up towards the transfer case front output. So I guess the normal shaft option is out for me. I don't want to rotate the perches on the axle because then my steering will be off, and rotating the knuckles or tubes is way too much... CV shaft it is...

[Metcalf]

If there is zero angle on the pinion U-joint you might be able to get it to work well enough.

[Snafu]

Ok, I think this gives a pretty good idea of the two pieces I want to add. I am having a Solidworks moment right now and cannnot get the 3D planes to work like I want.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/Dodge%20project/solid9.jpg

I think with these two plates added in this would be pretty strong. I could always run another plate to the main frame brackets.

I do worry about these 'buckets' collecting mud and water. Some drain holes are going to be in order I think.

Hopefully I can go to the junkyard this weekend and get another fuel door to french into the bedside for my aft auxiliary tank. I may try and use a Ramcharger fuel tank if I can find one ( and the 3 rear most crossmembers you need to install it ). I may also just build the tank so I can taper the back more and have clearance for my new exhaust.

Thats all for tonight....

Personally, I find that even the free version of Sketchup is perfect for conception drawings. You could even render the model and insert lighting using another freeware program called Kerkythea.

Drawing is what I do for a living so I'm all about putting my ideas on paper in exact measurements :sombrero:

[Metcalf]

Does anyone watching this thread have a 2wd 1992ish Dodge (D250/350) pitman arm laying around that they want to sell?

Oh boy do I need to fix the steering. The stock steering bracket is cracked in at least 2 places.

I am planning on moving the steering box to the 2WD position on the 4WD frame. Then use a 2WD pitman arm on the 4WD box ( this tucks everything nicely ). Next, I am going to bolt on a passenger side hi-steer arm on the D60 knuckle. Then build a new crossover drag-link using some Chevy TRE's. I'm also going to replace the stock steering shaft with a Borgsen unit.

Any last thoughts?

[lstzephyr]

I'd try cumminsforum.com or dtr and see if anyone is parting out a truck. If no one is I can drop by the junk yards around here, I think there was a 2wd in one place.

[ntsqd]

4WD linkage is push-pull?
Both are Saginaw boxes, are they not? I'm reasonably certain that some 2WD years were Saginaw's as I worked on one such truck. Should not be too hard to find a Saginaw box that would work. 2WD GM trucks would be very, very similar if not the same box.

[Metcalf]

The dodge 4wd box works great. I just need the 2WD pitman arm on it. The 4WD box can be moved back to the 2WD position on the frame once you remove the stamped bracket that stands it off from the frame.

The 2WD pitman arm points back instead of out, and tucks the TRE very close to the bottom of the frame.

[flexiheep]

Hey Brennan, after watching your thread for a year or more, I thought I would comment:

Those doors look better on your truck than mine.

I got my 2wd pitman arm from parts.com. It was a factory Mopar part, I think it was about 60 bucks a year and a half ago. I didn't have time/want to find one in a yard and pull it out. Since you have a couple inches of lift like I do, I might actually recommend something with a little drop to it to flatten the draglink out and get a little more room under the engine cradle.

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq30/flexiheep/mirrorsandsteering07.jpg

For reference this is what mine looks like with 2.5" softride springs, a pass side high steer arm and a 2wd dodge pitman arm.

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq30/flexiheep/mirrorsandsteering09.jpg

If nothing else it will help you visualize the angles and whatnot.

I keep remembering things, I had to ream out the 2wd pitman arm to fit the Dodge TRE in it (I used the same ones as were on my tie-rod so it was all common). I also had to add a hole to the high steer arm because the 2wd pitman arm was a length that was right between the two stock holes in my High steer arm.

BTW did you see the pictures of the truck once it was on the road (still need to paint it)
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq30/flexiheep/Everythingwasreadysomehow.jpg


Dale

[Metcalf]

Thanks Dale, your steering system is what I was going after. Few questions if you have a minute. What was the length of the 2wd pitman arm? I'm wondering if I can find a shorter steering arm. Any ideas on what might make a good pitman arm that would give just a hair more drop. I would love to be able to use a straight drag link. Any idea what taper the dodge TREs are?

I think I need to paint my truck worse than yours!

[Metcalf]

So a few weeks ago on the first trip to moab this year I couldn't get my darn trailer out of the 4 feet of snow here in Durango so I was forced to investigate other options.....

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Metcalfphoto/moab%20march%202010/P1010055.jpg

My girl even snapped some video....I like the noise....last 30 seconds is the best

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY-gZqyj1zo

[flexiheep]

Thanks Dale, your steering system is what I was going after. Few questions if you have a minute. What was the length of the 2wd pitman arm? I'm wondering if I can find a shorter steering arm. Any ideas on what might make a good pitman arm that would give just a hair more drop. I would love to be able to use a straight drag link. Any idea what taper the dodge TREs are?

I think I need to paint my truck worse than yours!

I will have to get back to you on the arm length, I am in Woomera South Australia right now driving a diesel Yota Hilux for work (had a couple Sundays to explore the outback so far).... I would try to look for something with about 4 inches total drop, maybe a Wrangler or FSJ arm possibly....... Taper is the same on the Dodge TRE as the GM, I just used a standard reamer from one of the 4x4 shops to enlarge the holes. My guess is that the threaded length is the difference between the GM and Dodge TRE.

I would plan to box the frame on your Dodge and sleeve it with the 39s you have, I will find a link to the Build of NACHO over in Col Springs (they guy I got my cab from, and where your doors came from) he did a real nice job with it.

Nacho build (http://ramchargercentral.com/index.php/topic,49434.0.html)
It is a long thread that goes through several levels, I think the steering was around page 20 maybe.
That is also a 2wd borgeson shaft on my truck like your looking at, it really is a bolt on in the 2wd position.

[lstzephyr]

Is the borgesen shaft aftermarket or was that a 2wd part? I keep hearing about it but I can't find any info on it. My steering is a bit loose.

I think all of us dodge guys need to paint our trucks.:snorkel:

[Metcalf]

Its an aftermarket replacement steering shaft. KLM has the best price I have found. I like the one that keeps the rag joint for vibration isolation, but they make a double joint unit too.

Check your steering box mount.....they like the crack.

[stimpy13]

Very nice build. I like the ideal of the kahki.

[Metcalf]

I am forbidden from painting any vehicle any color close to tan. Funny campfire story.

[DWitcher]

Take a look at the 2nd Gen Dodge pitman arm. It's a factory drop.

[flexiheep]

Brennan,
I just measured, my 2wd pitman arm is 6" center-line to center-line. The high steer arm I have had holes at 5" and 7.5", so I added one at 6" to match the pitman arm.

[Metcalf]

Thanks for the measurement. I guess a 76-79 F150 stock power steering pitman arm is suppose to work pretty well too. I wish all this snow would melt so I could get to the junkyard! I welded up the steering bracket and it seems to be holding for now. I'm looking around for a D60 steering arm that has a hole at 6".

[Metcalf]

I finally got around to working on the dodge a bit....or rather playing.....

I finally cracked open the injector pump and played with it a bit. I took the AFC apart and rotated the fuel pin after cleaning and marking everything. I did a 45 degree clockwise turn on the fuel pin. From what I could tell about 110-120 degrees from 'stock' clockwise would be the maximum depth on the fuel pin. It wasn't a 1000hp modification but it did make a pretty noticeable difference in power. I also made sure that the pin on the top of the AFC that controls pre-boost fueling was also in a good position to not allow too much fuel off-idle. I didn't mess with the star wheel yet as I only get a puff of dark haze now. It took maybe 15 minutes in work to make the modification, though I spent a good deal of time cleaning and looking at stuff.....

While I was playing with the pump I decided to relocate the throttle linkage to the top hole in the throttle arm. This makes the throttle MUCH more responsive. Personally I also think it helped with how the turbo spools up. I think its because the motor is being fueled a little harder than with the normal long travel system. It sure makes the truck much more fun to drive and a lot more responsive.

A little big ago I also modified the stock air cleaner housing into an open element system. This worked a lot better than the stock air box with my sectioned front fenders. It still uses the stock air filter. I made a little bracket that attaches to the fender with some stainless steel bolts that holds the air filter element with a LARGE hose clamp. It was simple and free. I didn't feel much of a power difference, but I can hear the turbo a little more now. I also think the turbo spools a touch sooner. I'm still running the stock lag-master housing on the turbo AND I live at 7000ft so any little bit helps.