Solar or Generator?

[Steve Curren]

I am having trouble making up my mind about a power source. I have an Engle 45 in my Chaser, I want to get a smaller one to use in my Jeep for a day trip cooler and when I take off for a longer time I want to use the smaller one for a freezer. I want to be able to charge both up should I need to, my problem is a generator or solar? Solar needs no fuel and is quiet and will last longer, a generator is probably more powerful and able to do more but needs fuel and will wear out more quickly than a solar panel, I have seen 55 watt foldable solar panles that are about the same price as a Honda or Yamaha 1000. Please help this unworthy one in deciding how to spend all my money.
Also a second Lifeline group 31 battery might be an optin, help please...

[flyingwil]

Since the Engel's draw is so little I think a generator is overkill. I would honestly think of a dual battery set up, IMO this is your best bet.

[oly884]

I vote solar.

I have a 50 watt panel on my 4WC and it's great and some. I plan on adding another 150 watts down the road for the addition of more electronics (laptop, speakers, things of that nature) but it produces 3.3 amps at full load which is more than enough to run my engel 45.

It is also useful in the rare cases in which fuel conservation is needed.

[flyingwil]

I vote solar.

Another pro for Solar is no moving parts and no required gas...

[Brian894x4]

Whatever you do, a second battery with a manual or automatic isolator system will go a long way to at least protecting your starter battery from being run down..

A lot depends on how long you want the refrigerator to run without the engine charging the battery. If you’re looking to park the rig for long periods of time during the day while your off hiking or biking somewhere, then a good high power solar system could potentially power the refrigerators, with minimal draw on the battery for hours at a time. Just remember that solar panels rarely work at their peak rated output, so if it’s rated for 50 watts, you’d probably be lucky to 25 watts out it average at any given time throughout the day. Although you’re better off in Arizona than a lot of a places. 25 watts will not completely power the refrigerators, so there will always be some draw on the battery. Also, at night while camping, you’ll be fully drawing from the battery if you decide to leave the refrigerators on and the solar panels would be useless.

If you spend most of your time driving around with only short stops, then neither a solar panel or generator is going to make much difference, since the draw on the battery will be minimal during the day and constantly recharged as you drive around.

For night time use, the alternatives are letting it run off the battery all night long and then recharge the battery as you drive around the next day, in which case you’ll need a good deep cycle battery, or get a generator and run the generator all night long. While the Honda EU1000 is quiet, it still makes noise and I personally wouldn’t run it with neighbors nearby. I also would hesitate to run it all night long and instead would likely only run to power camp while I’m up and about, cooking dinner, etc, then shut it off just before I went to bed and run the refrigerator off of the truck battery…or turn the refrigerator off. I’ve found that unless it’s excessively hot at night, my Engel stay pretty cool over night inside even when it’s not running. If you need a full freezer to operate all night long, then a generator will go a long way to keeping it frozen, especially in hot weather overnight.

In my opinion, for multi-day use without using the vehicle to charge up the battery, a generator is the only way to go. You’d need to some serious solar power and good environmental conditions to keep the battery charged up and then it would only be charging less than half the day, while you’re use would be potentially using the power all day and all night. Solar panels are better for burst loads, where the system goes through extended periods of time of no load, giving the solar panels a chance to charge up the batteries.

But if you plan to run the vehicle every day, then a generator just to run the refrigerator is not needed. It can be useful to power other things and as an emergency back up, however.

To sum it up, as someone who recently purchased both solar panels and a generator, if I had to choose between the two, I’d easily give up the solar panels and keep the generator, just because it’s more versatile and powerful in an emergency. But a duel battery system is first and foremost long before I would consider the gen or solar.

[oly884]

I do agree a lot with what Brian has to say.

Too add though, take into account how much sun you get. Being in Az. I imagine that you get a decent amount of sun year round (ie. few clouds) where as Brian, being in Or., probably doesn't get quite the amount that you do.

Here in bozeman, the skys are usually clear, but during the winter, the sun isn't out for too long.

One thing that can be done is exactly what Brian said, look into getting a deep cycle battery and a battery combiner as seen here. (http://www.yandina.com/c100Info.htm)

I have one of those, on top of my solar panel. So, in cases where weather or time of year inhibits the function of the solar panel, I have means of charging my deep cycle.

[Scott Brady]

Steve,

What would be a typical number of days you would camp? What would be the longest number of days in one camp? Do you plan on running a laptop to view and back-up pictures?

These questions will help me better answer.

[Desertdude]

FWIW -some real world use here - I have (now both new) in the starting and all accessories position a grp 34 yellow top - and an Aux. battery ( just for back up) grp 31 yellow top - a Hell Roaring (http://hellroaring.com/) dual battery isolator combiner - I can sit for at least 4 days with normal use of the Engel 45 - and interior door light on occasionally - I can sit for one evening say 7:00 p.m. until 7:00 am - with the engel running to about 36 degrees cold - Maybe an ARB outdoor light on occasionally - I can use my Macbookpro all through the night plugged into a small 150-watt inverter - ( PB draws 90 watts max) Watch DVD's - work with Apps - and run iTunes music ( an I mean all through the night) - when morning comes my starting/accessories battery will be at Approx. 10.4 volts left - not quite enough to start the Tacoma - I flip the switch and then use the Aux. battery to start the truck -

I have the Honda EU1000i (http://www.wisesales.com/) for almost seven years - no problems no additional maintenance - just fill it with gas and go - this is really over kill for most things I do on a day to day basis - if I need 110 power for any length of time this is when the generator comes in handy or if I fell I will be in camp sitting still for over 4 days - otherwise I can start the tacoma take a spin for 30 minutes and be fully charge for the next few days.

Solar while not out of the question - takes much more research - money and space to do it properly...

YMMV :coffee:

[Steve Curren]

WOW... Sounds like a toss up with everyone. Scott, I would be camped at most for 5 or 6 days, I currently have a group 31 deep cycle in the Chaser. I have the Engle 45 and would like a smaller one too. I was out for 2 days and 3 nights recently and the battery in the Chaser dropped to 12.6 volts, I know that's enough to run items for a bit longer but I am one who can't have enough power. I am planning on using my laptop as well as charging flashlight as well as the camera off the deep cycle battery via inverter. I guess it boils down to either have another deep cycle battery in the Chaser or figure out which other power supply would be easiest and charge the single deep cycle battery I currently have.
I want to thank everyone who has responded with their information, all I have to do is figure out what is best for my use.

Steve

[BajaXplorer]

To sum it up, as someone who recently purchased both solar panels and a generator, if I had to choose between the two, I’d easily give up the solar panels and keep the generator, just because it’s more versatile and powerful in an emergency. But a duel battery system is first and foremost long before I would consider the gen or solar.
:iagree:

[Steve Curren]

So Mr. BajaXplorer you would go with an additional deep cycle battery in addition to the one I presently have before a generator or solar? I want to stay away from using my vehicle battery so it's either another deep cycle or generator in your opinion? If I did get a second deep cycle I take it I would need a devise to keep them separate until I needed the additional battery to kick in?

Thanks again,
Steve

[Desertdude]

Second battery - definitely - manual switching to isolate = easy/less money

Generator in the future - will give you massive piece of mind - especially having the room in the trailer for storage - if you saw the Honda operate - it would be no question

[david despain]

someone correct me if they have better knowledge but, if the batteries are just going to be installed in the trailer i can see no reason for an isolater. just wire them up in paralell and you will have the combined amp/hr capacity of both batts. although i suppose the only draw back to this method is both batts really do need to be the same age and same brand and same model and same everything or they will fight and eventually kill each other.

[BajaXplorer]

Steve,

You said: "I was out for 2 days and 3 nights recently and the battery in the Chaser dropped to 12.6 volts, I know that's enough to run items for a bit longer but I am one who can't have enough power."
That would mean your battery was at or near full charge. The state of charge on a battery is usually accounted for as follows:

12.65 V 100 %
12.45 V 75 %
12.24 V 50 %
12.06 V 25 %
11.89 V 0 %
BTW, It is not good to pull your deep cycle much below 50% before recharging.

From your description of having a Group 31 in your Chaser, and what you may want to power (laptop, flashlight, camera) with it, it sounds like you have battery enough. Question is: Do you have a way of recharging the battery in the Chaser in the field? Is there a charge line from your vehicle alternator to the trailer, so when you start up your vehicle you can charge the battery in the Chaser? If so, you seem to have things covered. If it is set up so that you charge it upon return home, then you need to install charging capability from your vehicle to your trailer. Or, get a generator for doing it in the field and enjoy all the other options a generator offers.
If as you say it would be nice to have a smaller fridge freeze for shorter trips without the trailer and to use as a freezer for trips with the trailer, I still don't think you would need a third battery. Without the trailer you probably will spend less time in one spot and not put much drain on jeep battery. Although it would be good to have a pretty high amp hour battery in your jeep as well as the Chaser.
BX

Edit: here is some good battery reading.
Battery 1 (http://www.phrannie.org/battery.html)
Battery 2 (http://uuhome.de/william.darden/batlinks)

[Desertdude]

If you are charging from the vehicle to the trailer - the isolator would be there only to reserve power for emergencies or to isolate your starting battery from the trailer batteries

[Steve Curren]

So to get this all straight in my mind, I would and could run both Engels off the Group 31 deep cycle I presently have. I did say that it voltage dropped to 12.6 and it did start, when I disconnected, at 13+ volts. I can hook the Jeep back up to the Chaser and run it for a good period of time to charge if necessary. My Jeep is a little over two years old now and I have learned how long batteries in Arizona don't last so I will be getting a new battery soon , wich is another question also, and I will get one with plenty of power to operate the smaller fridge/freezer for short day trips. When I am on longer trips I can keep the smaller fridge in the Jeep and then when back in camp I can plug it into the Chaser. Another question might be how long would it typically take to bring the deep cycle back up with a stock alternator?
Thanks again for the responses from all.
Steve

[BajaXplorer]

I added some reading material to my post above. More that you ever wanted to know about all things relating to batteries.
BX

[Steve Curren]

Thanks, my brain fluff in not seeing that.. It will be nice reading tonight instead of a stupid movie.
Steve

[jkam]

In my van I use Optima Yellow Top batteries, 3 of them.
I have one in the engine bay and 2 in the storage comparment inside the van.
I installed a Hell Roaring isolator/combiner and a remote switch.
I also have a Honda EU1000 and 15 watts of solar panels for trickle charging when parked for awhile.

With this setup, I can run my Engel forever, my stereo all day and night and have my laptop going as well. I don't often need the generator but it's nice to have as backup.

With the isolator/combiner, I don't have to worry that the van won't have enough juice to start the engine, it always will.

[tjbliley]

I just finished rading this. I know its a little old but I had some questions maybe someone could answer. Doesn't it take more power to run an inverter to charge a flashlight or camera than it would to find a way to charge them with DC current from your system? Won't even brand new batteries discharge each other if just wired together without an isolator. Shouldn't you do all the math stuff for amp draw and such for the items you are going to use and really figure out how much electricity you are going to need per day?

[bj70_guy]

Edit: here is some good battery reading.
Battery 1 (http://www.phrannie.org/battery.html)
Battery 2 (http://uuhome.de/william.darden/batlinks)

Lots of excellent info in the first link - second link seems to be dead?

[Robthebrit]

Please use solar and a good battery isolator, nobody wants to hear a generator in the wilderness.

If you are careful 25 watts of solar and a decent group 31 is enough to run an engel, maybe indefinately. The fridge takes about 30 watts when running so it'll place a small draw on the battery, but when used as a fridge they only run about 25% of the time so the the solar will recharge the battery between the cycles. On a good day the solar will fully charge the battery during the day for the draw taken over night. If you want to run multiple fridges or run one/both of them as a freezer then you'll need more solar. When used as a freezer the power consumption of the fridge remains the same but it will run for longer, maybe 90% of the time.

Rob

[Steve Curren]

I went with with the solar, just got back from the North Rim and the solar I got from AT worked perfectly. I ran two Engels and charged various items, the only problem is when you can't get the sun like if you are in the woods and no clear view of the sun. That would only be a problem if you were there for a while as the Engel takes so little juice.

[ntsqd]

...... nobody wants to hear a generator in the wilderness.

Rob
Concur on the sentiment, but the newer ultra quiet Honda's are impressive for their lack of noise at any distance.

[Desertdude]

Concur on the sentiment, but the newer ultra quiet Honda's are impressive for their lack of noise at any distance.

Just had the Honda 1000EU out at the Expedition Trophy ran it at night to power the projector, sound system and computer, (an simultaneously charge batteries using the 12v outlet) during the evenings presentations. Set up approx 50 feet from the campfire behind a vehicle. Did not have one complaint since it is very quiet.

Some of us also had solar panels set up during the day, from 85 watt framed panels with kick out legs - to fold out 25 watt units. Everything has its place :)

[Martyn]

Just had the Honda 1000EU out at the Expedition Trophy ran it at night to power the projector, sound system and computer, (an simultaneously charge batteries using the 12v outlet) during the evenings presentations. Set up approx 50 feet from the campfire behind a vehicle. Did not have one complaint since it is very quiet.

Some of us also had solar panels set up during the day, from 85 watt framed panels with kick out legs - to fold out 25 watt units. Everything has its place :)

I think it's a question of the applicable use of power. Your use of a generator to power systems needed for a presentation is applicable.

But you have to ask yourself why would someone need 800 watts of continuous power out in the boonies?

If you look at the RV crowd it seems to be to power microwaves, TV's stereos, flood lights, etc.

Over the past 15 years places considered too remote for 5th wheels and large trailers are now inundated with them on weekends. These primitive campgrounds are now polluted with light, noise, and fumes from generators.

The new remote camper now has to travel further over more rugged terrain to be rid of the light noise and fumes. But with the advent of the small portable generator, the ruggedzed trailer, and now it would seem the Adventure Trailer the capability to takes these comforts of home into the most isolated of areas is now here.

I'm all for a little comfort while camping, a hot shower, soft bed, dry tent, but I'm also for the serenity of isolation and the quiet sounds of nature. So I would urge respect for these when you consider the need to power the comforts of home.

[ntsqd]

Years ago my mother was in a tents only campground. In rolls a 35 footer, with all the comforts of home. The generator was too noisy to be able to hear the TV and the stereo, so it got moved to the end of a 100' extension cord.

Everyone else in the camp was seething. One more than others as he/she took some action. Lights & TV out, generator unloads. Muted applause heard around the camp. Much stomping around & cursing on the part of the fouling party while plugging himself back in.

Some short time later it happens again. General appluase heard around the camp. More cursing, followed by louder cursing. Followed by total re-packing of all toys & what-not, and then departure of said 35 footer.

The morning revealed the 100 foot extension cord left behind. In 10 foot long segments. Clearly separated by an axe.