Buy a good tent!

[Jonathan Hanson]

I'm continuously amazed at the number of people who think a tent shouldn't cost more than lunch. When I was guiding in the Sea of Cortez I assembled a comprehensive tent repair kit with which to patch up the $39.95 dome tents a lot of my clients showed up with. Flimsy fiberglass poles, "coated" nylon fabric you could blow out a match through, shoddy construction. Match any of them against a stiff norther and the results were inevitable.

I don't think there's an item of gear that will affect your comfort and security in the wilds as much as the tent--not even your sleeping bag. So whatever size you need, whether it's a backpackable model or a family-sized cabin tent, invest in quality. You'll be glad you did, especially at 3:00 a.m. when the rain and wind start.

Probably the best field test I ever gave a tent was a storm on the Beaufort Sea coast, where my wife and I were kayaking when a report came over the VHF of a fast-moving storm from the west. We pitched our North Face VE25 above the high tide line and cooked dinner in the vestibule while the wind rose and rain started blowing sideways. It topped out at 50-55 mph gusts according to our anemometer. The tent just hummed, and we slept like babes.

I've reviewed at least 200 tents for various magazines. In backpack-style tents the major brands that stand out right now include Marmot, The North Face, MSR (formerly Moss Tents), and Sierra Designs. In larger tents look at Paha Que, Coleman, Eureka, and L.L. Bean. Sierra Designs has a couple of models that are big enough for cots and have standing headroom, but only weigh 20 pounds or so.

[Scott Brady]

I will need to take a look at the larger Sierra Designs tents. I have found several occassions where travel companions of mine needed a larger tent, yet one capable of handling extreme conditions.

Mountain Harware and The North Face both make expedition quality tents, but the price is stratospheric!

I am going to test out a new roof tent this weekend in the high country. It measures 72x88 when opened up :eek:

[Jonathan Hanson]

Yes, I forgot Mountain Hardwear. Good stuff.

And you know the best gear is the cheapest in the long run! My old Gore-Tex Marmot Taku is, jeez, nearly 18 years old and still usable, and our VE25 is going on 15 and still in perfect shape. I do like groundcloths, especially the footprints offered by most makers now. They probably double or triple the life of a tent floor.

A six-foot wide roof tent? You're going to need an escort vehicle.

[Scott Brady]

We used the new roof tent this weekend in Sedona, doing a little testing. With the height of the truck, you end up very far off of the ground (probably 7'), but the bed was very comfortable and the set-up is less than a minute.

I am not sold on the tent being over the cab though, mostly due to weight (CG) and wind resistance. I am going to try and devise a mount that will put the tent over the bed, and be about the height of the cab.

More to come...

[Ursidae69]

I have a Mountain Hardware tent for backpacking, very light and so far, very sturdy. It requires use of stakes though and depending on terrain, that can be a problem.

[Jonathan Hanson]

The Sierra Designs Nomad 6.1 is an excellent car camping tent. It's got full standing headroom and room for two big cots, dual vestibules, and only weighs 22 pounds. Nice fat aluminum poles.

[BajaTaco]

I have kind of an oddball tent that I use primarily for backpacking - but one that some folks might be interested to check out. The thing about these tents that makes them kind of unique is the amount of square footage that you get for the weight required. Very little weight per sq ft. They are made with a parachute type material that is very durable and strong, yet weight efficient. When backpacking with my wife, we have an enormous amount of room inside the tent with room to stretch out, and also keep our gear inside if weather or conditions require it (no vestibule needed). I personally have not used my tent in harsh mountain weather (4th season stuff) so I can't comment on that, but I have read some accolades from people who have. A cool aspect is the history of the company, a very "homegrown" family owned operation, with earlier marketing by the owners consisting of tasteful, vintage "naturist" shots of the products being used by nudist backpackers and outdoors people (skiers, boaters, etc). The tent is made by Stephensons. Check 'em out at www.warmlite.com (http://www.warmlite.com) (warning: if you are offended by nudist models, don't visit the site)

I have a 3R model, double walled, double-windows, 2-pole, with silicone seam sealant, alum. stakes, and a visquine ground cover, 2 carrying bags - and mine comes to about 6 lbs. 14 oz. The silicone I applied to seam seal, and the extra bag I use to carry the poles separate (divides the weight between two backpacks when avail) plus the ground cover, adds a considerable amount of weight. For snow use, I would recommend the 3rd pole option on the 3R model.

[Jonathan Hanson]

Ha! Not very many people know about Stephenson's stuff any more. Well, actually very few people ever did. . .

Stephenson's tents are astoundingly strong for their weight in terms of wind and snow resistance. I've tested both the two-person and three-person models, and they set up tighter than almost any tent on the market. I believe the 2R is still the lightest expedition-worthy, yet roomy, two-person tent you can buy. Probably stronger aerodynamically than my old Marmot Taku.

However, as you can infer from Baja Taco's post, they are not very durable when subjected to rough use such as pitching on rocky ground, wearing boots inside, and general manhandling. You can pinch one of the oversized poles and feel it dent a bit. A ground cloth is highly recommended. With that said, they're amazing products--and still sewn one at a time in the U.S. to your specs (by, one presumes, nude seamstresses).

However . . .don't buy into Stephenson's bizaare vapor-barrier theories regarding sleeping bags. Pure hocus pocus, even if they are beautiful bags.

[goodtimes]

[QUOTE=Jonathan Hanson].......With that said, they're amazing products--and still sewn one at a time in the U.S. to your specs (by, one presumes, nude seamstresses).[QUOTE]

And THAT is hard to find! I've been looking for a nude seamstress for a long time! :p

I don't remember the country of origin on my Mountain Hardware Skyview, but I am quite sure it was not made in the states. The quality is pretty good, but the tent is very heavy, in excess of 10 pounds when complete (it is a 3/4 season convertable, so you can leave some of the interior panels at home during the warm seasons). That isn't a big issue if you are travelling in a vehicle, but puts it out of reach for most people who travel by foot. It is very stable in light to moderate winds (have not had it out in heavy winds), but with the rain fly attached, it is by far the most stable tent I have had. Setup/teardown can be accomplished in about 5 minutes by a single person, assuming the wind isn't overbearing. It only has one vestibule, but it is large enough to cook in and store gear. The 2 person size is actually big enough to sleep 2 people in, provided they are "friendly" (if they are REALLY friendly, you can sleep 1 man and 3 women in it.....not sure how much sleeping would actually occur though).

I have also been pretty happy with my SlumberJack bivy shelter. Fully loaded, it comes in at 2 pounds, 5 ounces, great for backpacking. But, it has a serious downside, as do all bivy shelters......there is just enough room to sleep in it, and that is it. It is (surprizingly) very stable in heavy wind, if you get it pointed into the wind. A few years ago in Moab, that was the only tent left standing after a night of high winds that chased us all off to a hotel for the night. Of course, it is only ~20" tall, so it is easy to keep it sheltered in the grass and small shrubs.

[Desertdude]

Speaking of roof top tent mounting:
My plan for the Tacoma is to weld up a few cross bars - something tubular - up from the bed rail - just 6" lower than the cab roof. I am looking at the Maggolina airland - which is approx 12" height at closed postion and 51" W X 83" L -
I am hoping to keep the CG as low as I can. My spare is mounted on a rack inside the bed which might help with balance- The tent weighs approx 115 - Mounted it should not feel different that a camper shell.

My ground tent of the last 6 years has been a Marmot Swallow - a killer tent which has braved Big Sur downpours - AZ monsoons - and warm nights full of stars - The zippers are first class - poles light and strong - quality well worth the price tag.

The upgrade to the roof top tent will allow me not to have to bring sleeping bags/thermorests/pillow/and groundtent- everything for sleeping will be inside the roof top tent case- giving more storage in the truck - and less problems finding a flat spot on the ground...



We used the new roof tent this weekend in Sedona, doing a little testing. With the height of the truck, you end up very far off of the ground (probably 7'), but the bed was very comfortable and the set-up is less than a minute.

I am not sold on the tent being over the cab though, mostly due to weight (CG) and wind resistance. I am going to try and devise a mount that will put the tent over the bed, and be about the height of the cab.

More to come...

[Scott Brady]

I think your plan will work great! My only concern is the length of the roof tent with respect to the length of your truck bed. It would seem that the roof tent would either need to hang out over the rear of the truck 10", or over the cab 10", but that would require mounting the tent higher.

How do you plan to address the extra length :)

I should have my long-term roof tent solution arriving in a few weeks. It will be the T-Top by Eezi-Awn.

[Desertdude]

revealing more info:
I was thinking I could make something temporary to hold the tent and have it go over the cab buy approx. 12"->20" first and see how it flys. If it does not work then I will lower it to approx 6" to the roof line and see how the 11"-14" hangs out the back. I would rather the first solution. But I am afraid it might be the latter. The other issue is with it lower I have less access to my weatherguard box... with the solid suspension upgrade 115 lbs up there should not be too much out of balance... This is going to takes some time to get right :rolleyes:

I look forward to seeing you setup!

[BajaTaco]

Ha! Not very many people know about Stephenson's stuff any more. Well, actually very few people ever did. . .

Indeed! I think you are the first person I have met that actually knew about them. Cool!



However . . .don't buy into Stephenson's bizaare vapor-barrier theories regarding sleeping bags. Pure hocus pocus, even if they are beautiful bags.

I was always curious about that! And the clothes too... I just couldn't imagine it... I think I would be soaked from head to toe... Did you get to test out the bags or clothes?

Here is a pic of my 3R tent along with a friend's 2R down in Baja sur...

http://www.bajataco.com/Baja/CaboPulmoCamp.jpg

Hey everyone else - great feedback, info and personal experience on lots of tents. This is an excellent discussion.

[BajaTaco]

Ok, here we go...

I recently spotted this one in Popular Science magazine, The North Face Spectrum 23. Here is some commentary copied over from rockclimbing.com, which by the way has some good discussion (http://www.rockclimbing.com/topic/95324) on this upcoming tent ...

"The North Face is proud to introduce the world record-breaking Spectrum 23 tent ($259) at Outdoor Retailer Summer Market (for consumer release in Spring 2006). This 3- pound 12-ounce tent broke wind tunnel records at KARI (Korea Aerospace Research Institute) by withstanding winds of 130.2 mph. The previous record was set at 100 mph by a 9-pound expedition tent. The ultralight Spectrum is a 3-season, 2-person, single-walled tent designed for done-in-a-day pursuits when fast and light packing is paramount.

“A lot of our competitors achieve light weight goals in their gear through deconstructing the product,” said Wade Woodfill, product line director, equipment. “With the Spectrum 23, we are doing the exact opposite. We’ve designed and developed a new tent geometry that allows this ultralight shelter to work with the wind, not against it. The Spectrum 23 will change the way we construct all of the tents in our line, from expedition to trailhead.”

The integrity of the Spectrum 23 can in large part be contributed to an aluminum Nano-knuckle™ on the top cross pole of the tent. The Nano-Knuckle™ hub creates a hood scoop, or overhead vent, on top of the tent that when unzipped, allows wind and air to enter the tent, circulate and exit through low perimeter venting. In effect, the innovative Spectrum 23 tent works with the wind, instead of fighting against it. During wind tunnel testing, tent structure and poles held their own, ultimate failure came only when the tent stake and webbing separated from the tent body.

All of The North Face Flight Series™ tents incorporate DAC Featherlite™ aluminum poles, ultralight 1” pole sleeves, fusion pitch system with a new ultralight Microclip™ and a fully seam-sealed canopy. "

"Wind tunnel test" movie - http://i.timeinc.net/popsci/video/NorthFaceTent.mov

[Jonathan Hanson]

Very interesting! Only 20 years after Stephenson started making 3-pound, 100mph-plus tents . . .

Seriously, that looks promising. It's about time again for some real innovation in tent design. In writing four or five tent reviews in the last few years I haven't seen much that's actually new. DAC poles were a real step forward, as was UV-resistant polyester fly material. I have a Sierra Designs Hercules they sent me as a prototype; it's like leaning on a house when that thing's set up, but it weighs nine pounds. Undoubtedly more durable than the ultralight designs, though.

I still love my old Marmot Taku, which shrugged off numerous howling windstorms. A bit under five pounds, and very durable.

Incidentally, Baja, I didn't see your last question about Stephenson bags. Yes, I did try one, and a friend actually bought one. Beautifully made, but just plain clammy outside of a very narrow temperature range.

[Nullifier]

I am kind of intriqued with the oz tent. You have to get out of traditional tent mentality on this one. It has an internal frame that is semi folding. It is literally up in about 30 seconds and has a large external awning. with optional screen room.
http://oztent.com

Perfect to put on a roof rack since it is only about 30lbs. Kind of a cross between a ground tent and roof tent. I have sen it in person , that is why I may get one by the end of the year. If not that then a new sierra designs tent I love their stuff.

[BajaTaco]

Incidentally, Baja, I didn't see your last question about Stephenson bags. Yes, I did try one, and a friend actually bought one. Beautifully made, but just plain clammy outside of a very narrow temperature range.

Interesting! Thanks for the review comments.

[bh4rnnr]

I am kind of intriqued with the oz tent. You have to get out of traditional tent mentality on this one. It has an internal frame that is semi folding. It is literally up in about 30 seconds and has a large external awning. with optional screen room.
http://oztent.com

Perfect to put on a roof rack since it is only about 30lbs. Kind of a cross between a ground tent and roof tent. I have sen it in person , that is why I may get one by the end of the year. If not that then a new sierra designs tent I love their stuff.

I have the microfast oz tent. Have the three person tent. Have used it quit a bit this year. Once in January when we went to Capital Reef National Park. Held up to the cold weather. Was hard at first to figure out how it went back together but am getting the hang of it. For the price and quality of the tent, is hard to beat

[The BN Guy]

Umkay, maybe it's just me but what's the white stuff? Snow? Looks like bubbles to me.

[goodtimes]

Umkay, maybe it's just me but what's the white stuff? Snow? Looks like bubbles to me.

That white crap is the reason I don't live in Colorado anymore. You definately don't want to mess with it...nasty, nasty stuff.

[The BN Guy]

Yeah but when it's 100+ during the day and 90's at night...well, it gets a bit stifling. Snow may be messy but you can always put more clothing on.

Down here it's not a matter of staying warm but being as cool as possible. I run hot to begin with.

[BajaTaco]

I have the microfast oz tent. Have the three person tent. Have used it quit a bit this year.

Cool! I was wondering how those were. I like the fast setup. How is condensation with it?


JH, I saw an advertisement in Adventure Sports magazine for Hilleberg Tentmakers (http://www.hilleberg.com/) These look like fantastic tents and remind me a bit of the Stephenson models. Did you by any chance get to try one of them out? Makes me want to get a new solo tent...


Note to Scott: Hey Scott, try to use the "orngartis" smiley - it doesn't work too good

[MaddBaggins]

I have 3 different tents depending on the circumstances
a Sierra Designs Flashlight- 4lbs I use this when I am sleeping alone, it holds me and all my backpacking gear and has withstood 4 straight days of pounding rain in the Gila wilderness and an elk tripped over it once(I'll save that story for later)
a Sierra Designs Comet CD- almost 7lbs this is a 4 season tent that I use for winter packing trips were I will be sharing a tent. This one has been thru some high winds, lots of rain and snowstorms, very cold nights and 2 really big dudes inside. Good tent
a REI Taj 3- almost 8lbs this is the family carcamping tent. It hasn't yet been thru anything to extreme yet but seems to be a fairly sturdy model

I've had the Comet CD for probably 8yrs and the Flashlight for a little less than that and the Taj 3 for 3 years

[Jonathan Hanson]

Baja . . .yes, I tried a Keron 3 GT a couple years back, when Hilleberg was just entering the U.S. market seriously. I liked it a lot, especially the huge sit-in/cook-in vestibule. Quality is top-notch. Fiendishly expensive, however, from a competition perspective..

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Can Somebody Please draw me a HOT BATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


http://www.hilleberg.com/Images/gallery/Img0050lg.jpg

[Jonathan Hanson]

What a great shot!

[The BN Guy]

Is that guy for real or is it photoshopped? Yes I'm that niave.

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Hi BN......

OK.....

One thing I'm NOT into.....is trickery......just to set the record straight....hehe

so......here is the tent website I found that pic at.

I thought it was just such a Kewl shot....and we are talking about tents.....that I would simply share what I had found.

This pic really stirs the emotions.....doesn't it?

Hey!......here is another really Kewl shot!


http://www.hilleberg.com/Images/gallery/Img0034lg.jpg



Linkey:http://www.hilleberg.com/PhotoGallery.htm

[Boston Mangler]

I have had the same LLBean "4 Season Expedition" Tent for about 7 years. :camping:

It has been used in 2ft of snow, in massive rain storms, in wind storms, relaxing at the beach and everything in between.

The sleeping bag i use is a down unit from Bean as well and is about 7 years old and still works like new and i have NEVER been cold in it!

MOST LLBean tents are the usual $50 dome jobs that are spoke of in the first post here, but if you search, they do have a nice line of high end stuff (pretty sure it is made by North Face) that will last a lifetime. I think i originally paid $350 for it back in 1998 and have gotten my $'s worth 10 times over!

Their customer service rocks too! The tent poles got damaged once because i closed the hatch on the tent bag and 2 of them bent pretty bad. I emailed them with the model # asking if replacement poles were available, 5 days after my original email, a BRAND NEW SET of all 6 poles arrived at my door free of charge!!

A great place to get a good deal on top name tents and sleeping bags is the REI "Returned Gear" sale. Friend of mine got a brand new condition mountain hardware tent missing instructions and box for $149 (usually around $400 or so) and the thing is perfect and has never even been set up!

My tent is the "Mountain Condo" model and is mostly "No See-Um Mesh" when the fly is not on so it works great in the summer, and the fly is some superduty waterproof material that keep me bone dry in the harshest of storms!!

Here is a pic of it (flyless) on a cliff down in baja:

http://www.yankeetoys.org/mangler/IMG_0179.jpg