Radios

[Brian McVickers]

I'm looking to educate myself or at least gain a better understanding of all the radio options out there. This has been brought upon by the increased mentioning of 2M radios.

I am very familiar with VHF and Single Side Band. A little familiar with CB and the only thing I know about HAM is that you need to take a test!

I have a Radio Shack CB in my truck and I have two antennae mounts for it, one up front and one back. I usually use the mount in back and have an antennae that is about 3 feet long with nothing special about it that I can tell.

My reception ranges from muffled to clear depending on distance but I have also been in situations with another vehicle 100 feet away and had a hard time hearing them consistently. Could this be an antennae issue? What are the benefits to different types of antennas? Note that on radio checks I have been told that I can be heard very clearly when within a mile or so but sound a bit staticky when further away. Maybe we can do an official test at the Trophy!

Also

What is a 2M radio, what are the benefits, most common uses and what is required to use one?


Thanks
Brian

[Nullifier]

good question about the hams I want to know more as well. I'm sure we will be enlightened soon.

[flyingwil]

....I have a Radio Shack CB in my truck and I have two antennae mounts for it, one up front and one back. I usually use the mount in back and have an antennae that is about 3 feet long with nothing special about it that I can tell.

My reception ranges from muffled to clear depending on distance but I have also been in situations with another vehicle 100 feet away and had a hard time hearing them consistently. Could this be an antennae issue? What are the benefits to different types of antennas? Note that on radio checks I have been told that I can be heard very clearly when within a mile or so but sound a bit staticky when further away. Maybe we can do an official test at the Trophy!

...

Thanks
Brian

Brian-
The bigest issue with CB's is that the antenna(s) are not plug and play. Each radio and its antena must be tested with a SWR meter no matter what. This is most likely you issue, not knowing too much about your set up.

Firestik has a great FAQ section and Data base of info... I am sure you can hunt down your issue there. http://www.firestik.com/Tech_Docs.htm

Hope that helps a bit... and I do not know anything about the 2m radios either.

Wil

[Ursidae69]

I'm not near as versed in HAM as others here, but I'll take a stab.

I've always been fascinated by short wave radio, as a kid I used to read about it, dreaming about talking to people in other countries through my radio. I sort of forgot about that as I got older and always thought I'd do it someday. After hanging out with some of the other hams here, I opted to go for it.

There are two main levels of license you can get from the FCC. I strongly suggest anyone actually get the license first, there are some serious safety issues with these powerful little radios and every operator should know them.

The first level license is the technician license. This level gives you access to transmit above 50.0 MHz.

The next level is the general license. This gives you the above, plus HF frequencies. You need to pass a morse code exam as well as a written.

To give you an idea of the many frequencies out there, here is a chart of how the electromagnetic spectrum is broken down by radio frequency:Chart in .pdf (http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/allochrt.pdf).

The bands are commonly broken down by wavelength, like 2 meter. The 2 meter wavelength band comprises the frequencies between 144 and 148 MHz. The 2 Meter is the most popular band in the US known for repeater and packet operation.

Most 2M radios can work line-of-sight up to 50 miles, add a repeater to it and it will go much farther. Here in NM we have a repeater network statewide, I often hear stations in Las Cruces talking to stations in Albuquerque.

There is also long distance communication possible with 2m radios. Under the right conditions with the right atmospheric bounce, communications of 1000 miles or more are possible. Right now the 11-year sun spot cycle is not very
optimal for this, but soon. This is the main reason I got into this. I plan to talk to folks all over America, Mexico, and maybe Central America once the conditions are right, all from my truck. I know some local hams that talked to the international space station on their 2m during the last cycle. That's cool as hell.

So anyway, I'm all over the place with this, sorry, it's such a broad topic. I suggest you get the book called Now You're Talking (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0872598810/qid=1129859647/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-8065858-4659904?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) It covers everything and will get you into your technician license no problem. I have a lot to learn, but this stuff is so fascinating that it will keep your attention.

[dieck]

I'm looking to educate myself or at least gain a better understanding of all the radio options out there. This has been brought upon by the increased mentioning of 2M radios.

I am very familiar with VHF and Single Side Band. A little familiar with CB and the only thing I know about HAM is that you need to take a test!

I have a Radio Shack CB in my truck and I have two antennae mounts for it, one up front and one back. I usually use the mount in back and have an antennae that is about 3 feet long with nothing special about it that I can tell.

My reception ranges from muffled to clear depending on distance but I have also been in situations with another vehicle 100 feet away and had a hard time hearing them consistently. Could this be an antennae issue? What are the benefits to different types of antennas? Note that on radio checks I have been told that I can be heard very clearly when within a mile or so but sound a bit staticky when further away. Maybe we can do an official test at the Trophy!

Also

What is a 2M radio, what are the benefits, most common uses and what is required to use one?


Thanks
Brian

I'm a ham.. It's usually antenna tuning and placement. Best place is square in the middle of your roof with a through the roof connector. Roof acts like a base reflect the waves back up into the antenna if coming at an odd angle. Also (obviously gives you the most height and clearest line of sight in all directions. Your truck is kind of a big metal reflector so waves bounce off of it in all directions. Cleanest up top.

[mountainpete]

If you want to learn the basics of HAM, I would suggest this site: eHam (http://www.eham.net/newham/)

I'm studying right now for the basic test here in Canada - it's a bit tougher than the US version as it's 100 questions and a min 70% pass. I'm about 1/2 done the study book and I did a sample test last night - scored 64% so I think I'm on my way :victory:

[DaktariEd]

This thread over at TTORA will either fill your brain to capacity or blow it out: Ham Radio 101 (http://tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17428)
This link I have not read through yet, but seems to have helpful info: CB Radio Basics (http://www.can4x4.com/articles/comcorner/index.htm)

HTH....
Ed :D

[GeoRoss]

A slight hijak: I am really ignorant about radio communications. I understand the basic physics of AM/FM, etc. but nothing about the practical/equipment side.

I have frequently used CB radios for caravan communications. They tended to be low end and finicky. I am interested these 2M/HAM radios. One observation is that in the 4WD community, CB's dominate. You can communicate with more people. However, a 2M/HAM would suit my needs better.

A CB radio would allow communication with more people, whereas a 2M would be a better choice for me out in the boonies. Are there radios that can utilize both bands? I would rather spend a little bit more for one than to buy two different units. I don't want my cruiser looking like the communications center in Air Force 1, though it would look cool.

I want to purchase a unit prior to the 11/11 get together, but want to buy smart and not just get something I'm in a rush. I suspect that no animal like this exists and I don't have a license for the 2M yet either. What think you gurus of communication?

Ross

[pangaea]

I have frequently used CB radios for caravan communications. They tended to be low end and finicky. I am interested these 2M/HAM radios. One observation is that in the 4WD community, CB's dominate. You can communicate with more people. However, a 2M/HAM would suit my needs better.

Similar situation to where I'm at as well... I'm a HUGE believer that 2M/HAM radios are a far better alternative, but I feel like I'd be the token four wheeler in CO with a HAM radio (thereby rendering it completely useless).

I do believe they make combination radios like that (including FRS capability, IIRC), but I'd really like to get a gear recommendation from those with more experience in this department.

Looking anxiously at my copy of "Now You're Talking"...

[mountainpete]

I was on a quest for a CB & VHF/UHF in one a while back... While you could modify certain radios to do it, there aren't any models that are commercialy available in North America. The ones that you could modify are quite expensive and suffer from performance issues as the bands for CB are far appart from the most used 2M/VHF range.

Pete

[datrupr]

I guess I am a little behind with my two cans and a string. :D

[BajaTaco]

Similar situation to where I'm at as well... I'm a HUGE believer that 2M/HAM radios are a far better alternative, but I feel like I'd be the token four wheeler in CO with a HAM radio (thereby rendering it completely useless).


I know exactly what you are talking about. HOWEVER, what you need to do is get together with some of your favorite trip partners, and discuss the merits of the 2M radio with them. All it takes is 2 or 3 of you to decide to go through with the switch, and get the radios and the licenses. Once that happens, the two of you (or 3 or 4 depending on how many the intital group is) will be talking on 2M radio out on a trip and wondering why you never did it sooner. You can still leave the CB on, and communicate with others who don't have 2M, but word will spread quickly about the 2M's... people will lean into the window of your Rover and listen to you talking to your buddy FAR AWAY, clear as a bell... and that will make a strong impression. Before you know it, a couple more from the regular traveling group will be getting the 2M radios and enjoying talking with the other 2M guys while still *monitoring* the CB channel. Pretty soon, all of the good conversations will be happening on 2M (it's more enjoyable to talk on the radio when you can actually communicate effectively). After that it becomes a situation where the 2M is the hot setup and those who don't have it on trail runs and trips are the ones missing out. A sort of *peer pressure* settles in and the new friends and people joining the group won't take long to realize that they are the odd-man out. And from then on, your CB's will start to be left with the power turned OFF, since everyone on your trip is talking on VHF. When that happens, it's a VERY HAPPY thing. No more static, no more lost communications, and no more "aaaawwwwdio!" being screamed at you from the idiot in Texas with the 5,000 watt transmitter or wherever the heLL he is... LOL!

How do I know this? Because I helped to do it with the friends I know, and it worked.

:victory:

[goodtimes]

I second what Baja said. Nothing like spreading the group out 10 or 15 miles and still having crystal clear communications from the front to the back. Also very helpful when someone is running late. A few years ago I was in Death Valley with a group of friends. One of the guys was running late one morning. The main group went in and had breakfast, then went up to Darwin Falls. after returning to our trucks, we called the late group, who were just getting to breakfast (family with kids, takes time sometimes). So we went on exploring, when the family was ready to join us, we talked them through all the twists and turns until they caught up with the rest of us. Very cool that they could take the time they needed, and the rest of us didn't have to wait around for them.

[Colorado Ron]

I too am totally ignorant. Id like to be able to talk home when out running around. The kids would get a kick outta being able to chat over the radio with me. HAM capable of this I presume.

[BajaTaco]

I too am totally ignorant. Id like to be able to talk home when out running around. The kids would get a kick outta being able to chat over the radio with me. HAM capable of this I presume.

There is still a lot that I need to learn. At this point, my experience is limited to using a repeater once on a trip (I need to practice more!) and the rest has been all simplex (no repeater).

But, I think there are potentially a few ways you could do this. All of them would likely depend on the use of repeater stations if you are not within range to talk on "simplex" (radio-to-radio) with your kids at home. Many repeaters are linked, so if you can transmit to a repeater within range of your radio, it will link to another repeater, and kind of "daisy chain" your transmission to a repeater that your kids could receive from, and you could talk that way.

Another option would be to use a repeater that is capable of telephone communication, whereby if your radio is capable of encoding and decoding voice transmissions into digital data, as you talk into your mic, your voice goes through the repeater as digitial data, and is then decoded and broadcast through a telephone - so your kids could talk to you via the phone.

You can also set up your radio to work with a laptop computer and send/recieve email if you can access a repeater station that is set up for it.

For some introductory commentary on HAM radio and 4wd use, check out Stu Olsen's page (http://www.stu-offroad.com/misc/ham-1.htm) on his Jeep website.

[Ursidae69]

When I come out to AZ the 11th, I can bring my copy of Now You're Talking if anyone wants to borrow it for a few months or whatever. This book is all you need to pass the technician level exam. You can mail it back next year when you've passed your test. :elkgrin:

[Scenic WonderRunner]

I guess I'll ask this here since the topic is "Radios".

I have my good 'ole trusty 1976 Johnson CB Radio hooked up in my 4Runner......with a direct battery connection with fuse......then I have it grounded to a bolt under my passenger seat.

When I start my truck.....I get engine noise on it....I can tune it out with the squelch.....but then can't hear out as far on the radio.

I first had power to it through the cig. plug...........same thing...so I tried the above.....same thing.

Any Idea's.

I know they make noise supressors.....I've seen them at radio shack and they are huge monsters!

How can I just wire it right..... to do away with the engine noise?

I've used this radio for almost 30 years in all types of vehicles and have never run across this noise problem.

Thanks!



..........trying to prepare for our trip to Arizona Al ......so I can have a good copy on ya there good buddy!

[mountainpete]

DC noise filters work pretty well and are basically wired after the fuse. If you go to a CB radio shop or a truck stop, you should be able to get a small cheap one. But first check and make sure it is engine/electrical noise...

Turn on your radio and listen for the noise. Then disconnect the coax connection to your antenna from the back of the radio. Do not try to transmitt, but rather listen for the noise. If the noise disappears, the noise is coming from your antenna and a DC noise filter will not help you.

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Thanks Pete.........

I've tried disconnecting the antenna......same thing......engine noise.

I read some where that there are so many electronic things running in these toyota's.....that they just generate noise.

I also read some where to make a full battery connection....hot and ground. Somebody wrote that if you ground in the cab.....you are actually making an antenna to pick up the engine noise with your power leads.

I just don't know enough about it.

So.....maybe next on my list of test's is the full battery loop power test.

Can this harm my radio?

Thanks...........Mark

[BajaTaco]

That's what I would suggest - run the ground directly to your neg. battery terminal (and fuse it just like the power wire). This will also keep your radio more safe in the event that the chassis gets spiked due to a "short".

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Thanks BT.....

Kewl idea on the second fuse!

[Scenic WonderRunner]

I ran across this and thought I would share it for a radio mounting idea.

Some may have seen this.....others may have not.

It's been around for a while. There were some questions in another thread about drilling holes.....maybe this will help.

Radio Mount LINK (http://home.4x4wire.com/swilson/mods/cb/)

http://www.4x4wire.com/staff/swilson/mods/cb/08_s.jpg

[pskhaat]

Here are the options for us:

The citizen's bands without license are the 11meter (or CB ~30MHz), FRS, and MURS (~150MHz). FRS shares some frequencies with another type of service called the GMRS which is a licensed UHF band. You simply need to pay the FCC $ to get GMRS access (as well as a GMRS mobile radio, sometimes they are combined with FRS and are limited). The $ is just a barrier-to-entry so you don't get the jokers/crackers like you do on 11 meter `CB.'

Now Ham/Amateur radio encompasses a good # of other bands/frequencies that require eductation and passing verious tests, however there are a few benefits to Ham: non-professionals (like us) can communicate on superior equipment at superior power. But there's more, we can:

1. Create repeaters that listen on one frequency, re-transmit on another. Put this high on a mountain and you get 100s of miles of coverage,

2. Connect these repeaters. A repeater in AZ might be connected to a repeater in CO. Coversations on one repeater are `repeated' or echoed on the other repeater. Coverage area starts getting very large.

3. Connect repeaters to the internet, digitize the communicae, and tunnel it across the internet to other repeaters. Now from no-where UT I can talk to my sailing buddies in the Virgin Islands.

4. Connect to the phone system. You can place phone calls from other radios that are connected to a phone. This is good for calling home or 911 in emergency!

5. Broadcast your GPS location over the radio (and over these repeaters) & receive other's GPS broadcasts. Other GPS equiped radios can recieve these signals and plot the locations of those to whom you are listening.

6. Broadcast video (rare, but you can if you want).

Often people talk about 2M, but this is just the VHF amateur band. Just passing the first test gives you a wealth of bands (above 6m or 50MHz) for communication. One overlooked band is the 6m band where you get some of the benefit of long-range (DX) and some of the clarity and line-of-sight propagation like the 2M band. Another popular band is the 70cm (~440MHz) band (lots of repeaters on these) and the clarity is amazing.

To give you an idea, I live in N. Scottsdale, often talk with only 5 watts of power to a repeater on Mt. Lemon in Tucson that repeats my signal way South. How much coverage is this?

Moab has VHF/UHF repeaters for Ham use. Note there are ALSO GMRS repeaters too, but they are few and far between.

[pskhaat]

The kids would get a kick outta being able to chat over the radio with me. HAM capable of this I presume.

This is more for the GMRS license where your immediate family members are allowed to transmit alongside you.

[Ursidae69]

To give you an idea, I live in N. Scottsdale, often talk with only 5 watts of power to a repeater on Mt. Lemon in Tucson that repeats my signal way South. How much coverage is this?


On 2M or 440? That seems far for 2M. I was in southwestern NM in early October and could hear Mt. Lemon faintly, but it was too far for me to hit.

Thanks for the other info too. I plan to get a dual band radio next, maybe a tri-band if I really save my $$.

[Brian McVickers]

What do you guys think of the hand held 2M radios?

I'm thinking you could use it as a portable Hand Held and then when you get in your vehicle you could connect it to the 12v power and a mounted antennae.--???

[asteffes]

What do you guys think of the hand held 2M radios?

I'm thinking you could use it as a portable Hand Held and then when you get in your vehicle you could connect it to the 12v power and a mounted antennae.--???

I have owned a 2m/440 HT for several years now. They are incredibly useful and make an excellent first radio. A 5 watt radio with a quality external antenna is an amazing communications tool. They do have some limitations for vehicle use, however, which include the following:

Tiny controls - Most HTs have very small buttons and displays that are difficult, if not dangerous, to use while driving. If you intend to use mainly simplex frequencies and don't expect to fiddle with the radio's settings much, this isn't a big problem. If you are hopping around the band or looking for repeaters (and thus also doing squelch tone scans) you'll start to wish for a mobile rig with a big, bright display and larger buttons.

Heat management - HTs are great for intermittent communications but they can suffer from excessive heat if used constantly at full power. Using an external power source can exacerbate this, as the radio will be pushed by the full 13.8 volt supply from your vehicle. This can over-drive the finals and result in a very hot radio, if not permanent damage. Turning down the RF output power can help, but then you'll be using less than 5 watts and that may become an issue if your contact is already a marginal one. Mobile rigs have big heatsinks and fans to keep them cool at much higher power levels. You'll still want to be mindful not to drive your mobile radio at full power all the time or for extended periods, but full power is really not required all that often, anyway.

Messy cables - Hooking up an HT with external antenna, remote microphone and vehicle power cables gets old. The cables go all over and sometimes pop loose. HTs are fine for ocassional comms, but using them as a substitute for a real mobile rig all the time does get a bit wearisome.

Limited power - 5 watts is fine if you're near your contact or working repeaters, but low power operations do have their limitations. It's nice to be able to bump up to 10, 15 or even 50 watts when you need it. For this reason I wouldn't depend on an HT for emergency work, but then again I would rather have an HT than no radio at all. You could use an external RF power amp, but you'll approach the cost of an inexpensive mobile rig. I would spend a few more bucks on a mobile and be glad to have the convenience of the HT and mobile at my disposal. :)

Hope this helps.

[Brian McVickers]

Great info
Thanks!

[Offtrack]

Many things you can do with Ham radio. Been a ham a long time here and it is great and part of the fun in Expediton travel as good communications is needed.

One thing you may look into also is APRS. This is where you can track others and your rig. You can even send short messages over it. I have a home station that sends out weather data from my weather station as a back up to the main weather web page I have.

A good web site for info and reviews on radios I have found this site helpful.
http://www.eham.net/

Hope that helps.

KB7DZR

[Brian McVickers]

This is an old thread but rather than starting a new one I figured I'd just tack on another post .......



For a first radio would you get:

A 2 meter or a Dual Band?

A Hand Held or a fixed mount mobile?


:wavey:

[DaveInDenver]

For a first radio would you get:

A 2 meter or a Dual Band?

A Hand Held or a fixed mount mobile?

Dual band ham, I'm assuming?

I'll offer a $0.02 on the second first, mobile for what I /think/ you're doing with it. I have both and the truth is that the handheld is used almost as much as the mobile. But I use my HT when I go hiking to make contacts, it's nothing short of amazing what a 5W handheld can do when you're standing at 13,000' or 14,000'. I also use mine often when we ski in the backcountry. They are handy for slipping in a backpack.

But they are not a substitute for a real radio in your truck. They do reasonably well with an external antenna, but they are not nearly as convenient to use, don't sound as good and the mic is a compromise. So by the time you connect an extenal antenna cable off the top, add a decent mic and maybe an external speaker, it gets to be quite a mess. If the primary use was going to be in a truck, I'd put in proper radio.

Now as to dual band or not. My gut is to go dual band and that's what I did. But the 2m/70cm usage is about 95%/5% and that's only because 70cm is less crowded and it's sometimes easier to find an open simplex channel for truck-to-truck comm. If money is an issue, I would get a nice 2m radio and be happy. If you are looking to spend money, sure, why not get more bells and whistles? But really, unless you are a true ham hobbyist, you're going to use 2m almost all the time.

[BajaTaco]

If you've got the cash, I would get the dual band. If you're on a budget, go for the 2M. I would pass on the mobile HT until you can get one as a 2nd radio. You will appreciate the higher power of a mounted 12V unit.

[EDIT] Ha, Dave beat me to it. ("yea, what he said!")

[crawler#976]

1. Whats your budget??? Dual band is considerably more$$$. I wanted a rugged radio as the primary consideration, and narrowed the choice down to the Yaesu FT-2800M and the Icom IC-2200H, both built in a similar configuration, and both relatively inexpensive. Got the Yaesu after reading a few pages of reveiws.

2. Mobile first - because power output will be at least 10X greater, and no batteries.

[Brian McVickers]

Thanks guys,
Good thoughts and along the lines of what I am thinking.
Ultimately I want to get an in truck unit and a HT for hiking and backpacking.

I was thinking a dual band in the truck first and then a 2meter HT.

[mountainpete]

This is an old thread but rather than starting a new one I figured I'd just tack on another post .......



For a first radio would you get:

A 2 meter or a Dual Band?

A Hand Held or a fixed mount mobile?


:wavey:

First I would say go with a mobile mount and not handheld. If you are using it for backcountry use at all the comparison is night and day.

I choose a Yaesu FT-8800R as my first radio earlier this year. Here is why:

- It not only is dual band, but more importantly for me it is dual recieve. This means I can listen to two frequencies at the same time. Absolutely great for traveling in the backcountry. On one side I can monitor a ham frequency and on the other I can monitor something else (like logging trucks!)
- The remote head installation is great. I have the headunit on my centre console and the transciever behind the rear seats. Out of sight and secure.
- The peformance is always rated high on review sites.

Right now I don't even have a dual band antenna - only a VHF whip. But I still make daily use of the dual recieve. You learn more faster when you can listen to two frequencies. The VHF whip is just so forgiving when it hits trees that I am happy to keep it.

Hope that helps.

[Brian McVickers]

Crawler,
Budget is not much!

I found that Yaesu 2800 for $139 at Universal radio and that just may fit the ticket.

The least expensive dual band I can find is $100 more at $240

I did find a used Icom Ic-208H on Craigslist Phoenix, It's a dual band.
I called and he still has it avialable, but he wants $180 and will only go down to $175, not what I want to spend on my first radio let alone a used one with no warranty... although I'm sure that it's a good deal.
For the trips I am taking now days I'm sure a 2meter will deliver just fine, - primarily to help me find camp or keep in touch with the group after missing obvious turns!

I would think different if I was going to be using it more like MountainPete.

If anyone is interested in that one do a search for Ham Radio on PHX Craig's, it is a recent listing.

[mountainpete]

Keep an eye here: http://www.eham.net/classifieds/

[pskhaat]

It's way $, but my 8900 has a cross-band repeater which means I can keep a low-wattage .5 watt small UHF HT on me, I talk to my mobile in the Cruiser which then repeats my conversation on VHF, the reverse on the way back in.

This for me has been the ultimate back-country use.

[crawler#976]

The Yaesu FT-2800M manual programming is really straight forward. Five simple steps for repeater freq's - maunally (VFO) select freq, set PL tone, tone type, name (optional), and memory channel. Simplex is easier - manually (VFO) select freq, name (optional), and memory channel. Unless it's an odd split, the repeater freq offsets are automatic. I carry a list of AZ repeater, and it only takes a minute to set one up (literally, about a minute without naming the channel)

[DaveInDenver]

It's way $, but my 8900 has a cross-band repeater which means I can keep a low-wattage .5 watt small UHF HT on me, I talk to my mobile in the Cruiser which then repeats my conversation on VHF, the reverse on the way back in.

This for me has been the ultimate back-country use.
You know, when I went through the options I wanted in my mobile I gave this serious consideration. I see a use where you are trying to maximize battery life in your HT, but in practice I've yet to find a place where I could not hit a land based repeater that I could actually hit my truck reliably with anything other than 5W. Seems that the trailhead parking is usually bad w.r.t. to either or both my HT and any repeaters that I'd want to hit, so it's just as effective to head to higher ground and bypass the middle-step. So I have not missed the x-band repeater so far. That's just me, YMMV without doubt. Basically, going up 1000' to a hilltop with a 5W HT is going to give you far, far more range than 50W or 100W sitting in a valley if you're trying to make contacts. The ideal situation is take the mobile antenna off your truck, bring along a tripod, a few ground radials and use it with your HT. With that sitting on a 13'er or 14'er you'll be able to hit neighboring states. Seriously.

[asteffes]

It's way $, but my 8900 has a cross-band repeater which means I can keep a low-wattage .5 watt small UHF HT on me, I talk to my mobile in the Cruiser which then repeats my conversation on VHF, the reverse on the way back in.

This for me has been the ultimate back-country use.

Cross-band repeat is one of those features that everyone wants, few know how to use properly and even fewer actually utilize once they have it. It does come in really handy sometimes, though. Some radio makers got clever and made "one way" and "two way" CBR, which is cool if you only need a boost to reach a repeater but not to receive it.

My previous Icom 2720H and Kenwood TM-V7A both had one-way and two-way CBR, but curiously my Kenwood TM-D700A doesn't seem to do it.

[upcruiser]

good info in this thread. I'm just starting to investigate the realm of HAM. My motivation is actually not 4wd related. I'm getting started in stage rally next summer and I'm looking to outfit the car with a HAM setup to monitor the race organizers and for comunicating with the crew. Ideally though I'd like to put a setup in the car and one in my Cruiser which may be my tow rig for events. If I can find a licensed volunteer crew person it would be ideal.

[dieck]

I've been running a Yaesu FT817 for about 2 years and love it. Can be used portable on a hike with good battery life. It has great WL coverage and works well with a vehicle mount

http://heath.dieckert.com/albums/album14/FT_817_hires.sized.jpg

[gary in ohio]

It's way $, but my 8900 has a cross-band repeater which means I can keep a low-wattage .5 watt small UHF HT on me, I talk to my mobile in the Cruiser which then repeats my conversation on VHF, the reverse on the way back in.

This for me has been the ultimate back-country use.

Yes the 8900 does have cross band repeater. You can not legally use it as a full cross band repeater since it doesnt have an IDer in the radio.

[DaveInDenver]

Yes the 8900 does have cross band repeater. You can not legally use it as a full cross band repeater since it doesnt have an IDer in the radio.
My understanding of the rule is that a station needs to be identified and under the control of a licensed ham. That means a repeater doesn't necessarily have to auto ID as long as there's a ham in control of it. So my interpretation is that as long as you ID the station and shut it down after you are finished, you are in compliance. Using a repeater to retransmit your low QRP HT signal, as a half duplex cross band repeater, is certainly within the rules. Having the cross bander retransmit the received signal to your HT might be skirting the rules, but as long as you ID the repeater, I don't see that it's blatant.

The problem I think (and this is only my read on Part 97) is when someone might leave a cross band repeater running, like back at the trailhead in their truck, but aren't controlling the station. Some radios like the Alinco 610 support the remote radio controlling it, for example shutting it down using a command on your HT. My $0.02 is that as long as you are actively using the repeater, it's probably fine as long as you ID both your HT and repeater. If you shut off your HT and leave the mobile running in x-band repeat without monitoring it, that is most likely illegal.

[gary in ohio]

My understanding of the rule is that a station needs to be identified and under the control of a licensed ham. That means a repeater doesn't necessarily have to auto ID as long as there's a ham in control of it. So my interpretation is that as long as you ID the station and shut it down after you are finished, you are in compliance. Using a repeater to retransmit your low QRP HT signal, as a half duplex cross band repeater, is certainly within the rules. Having the cross bander retransmit the received signal to your HT might be skirting the rules, but as long as you ID the repeater, I don't see that it's blatant.

Every transmitter must identify itself every 10 minutes. regardless if someone is at the control point or not. the transmitter must identify. If your using your handheld 10ft from the truck then your NOT at the control point and cant ID the unit. You could identify 1/2 the cross band repeater. For example, Your cross band is UHF to VHF and then VHF to UHF. One station on 2m one on 440. Transmitter control point is using an HT on 440 and can identify the 440 HT transmitter and the 2m transmitter but has no way to identify the repeater 440 link he would be hearing.

The proper use of a cross band repeater is as a range extender. You have a dual band handheld with RX on 2m, and tx on 440. The crossband is only setup for UHF to VHF cross banding. This way all transmitters are id'ed.

There was a couple of yaesu dual band radio that had CW iders in them for legal cross band but those are no longer available.