comparing two ExPo campers

[haven]

After I saw the 1983 Toyota pickup advertised in the "For Sale" section, I just couldn't stop thinking about it as an alternative to the Earthroamer XV-JP as a go-anywhere adventure camper.

Here's a comparison of specifications of the two vehicles, starting with the chassis. I'll post a comparison of the campers soon.

Chip Haven

--------------------------------------------


Expedition Camper Comparison

Custom 1983 Toyota long bed pickup camper (Chevy V8)
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24434
http://www.wanderthewest.com/ads/cat-2/ad-118/

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z241/expeditioncampers/83-toy-v8-3.jpg

and

2009 Earthroamer XV-JP Jeep camper
http://www.earthroamer.com/tab_xpedition_vehicles/xvjp1_overview.html

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z241/expeditioncampers/er-xvjp.jpg


Part 1: Chassis

Engine
Jeep 3.8L V6 202 hp and 237 ft-lbs of torque
Toy 6.7L stroked Chevy V-8 small block, estimate 350 hp, 375 ft-lbs

Fuel capacity
Jeep stock 21.6 gallon tank
Toy stock 16 gallon tank, plus 13.5-gallon auxiliary tank (gravity flow)

Fuel economy with camper during expedition use
Jeep 16 mpg (per Scott Brady)
Toy 15 mpg (per owner)

Transmission
Jeep 4-speed automatic transmission 2.84 first gear, 0.69 overdrive
Toy NV-4500 5-speed manual , 5.61:1 first gear, 0.75 overdrive.

Transfer case
Jeep NV241 or Rock-Trac, 4.0:1 low-gear ratio.
Toy Dual Toyota transfer cases, front case 2.28:1, rear case 4.1:1, twin shifters

Final Drive
Jeep 4.10
Toy 4.11

Final Low Crawl ratio
Jeep 47:1
Toy 215:1

Front axle
Jeep Dana 44, Tru-Lock e-locker, electric sway bar disconnect
Toy stock Toyota axle, Tru-Trac gear proportional locker, manual sway bar disconnect

Rear axle
Jeep Dana 44, Tru-Lock e-locker
Toy Dana 60, ARB air locker

Suspension
Jeep Heavy duty coil springs, 3 inch lift, Bilstein shocks
Toy National Springs, lift unknown, Rancho 9000 shocks
Toy long rear suspension arms for extra articulation

Brakes
Jeep standard Jeep disc/disc
Toy Land Cruiser brake cylinder, Land Cruiser vented discs, 4Runner calipers in front
Toy Rear disc brakes

Wheels and Tires
Jeep Goodyear LT285/70 R17 (32.7 in diameter), 8 ply, alloy wheels
Toy BF Goodrich 33x12.5x15 (32.5 in diameter), alloy wheels

Protection
Jeep heavy duty steel front bumper and grill hoop (by AEV?)
Jeep Heavy duty steel rear bumper with swing-out tire carrier
Jeep custom skid plates and rocker panel sliders
Toy custom Reunel steel front bumper, 1/4-inch steel, 1/2-inch mounts
Toy custom Reunel steel rear bumper, 1/4-inch steel, 1/2-inch mounts
Toy custom sliders, skid plates ?

Recovery
Jeep Warn 9.0 radio control front winch with 50' 3/8-inch diameter nylon line
Toy Warn 8.0 front winch with cab control

Auxiliary Driving Lights
Jeep HID driving lights and Halogen fog lamps in bumper
Jeep four PIAA 600 HID off-raod driving lights above cab
Toy Hella Rallye 4000 (one driving, one cornering) on bumper
Toy fog lamps mounted within bumper

Safety systems
Jeep Electronic Stability Program, Electronic Roll Mitigation, Traction Control Hydraulic Brake Assist
Jeep Advanced multistage front air bags
Toy none

Warranty, chassis
Jeep Chrysler limited lifetime powertrain warranty ?
Toy none

Miscellaneous
Jeep engine-driven air compressor and air tank
Jeep air horns
Jeep anti-theft engine immobilizer switch
Toy Firestone Ride-Rite air compressor and tank with regulator
Toy 160 amp alternator and Premier Power welder
Toy air horns

[Rattler]

I would love to have that Toy with a Toy 3.4 or Toy diesel. That thing is beatiful. I have loved that bodystyle since I was a kid.

Can you guess which one I like?

[Nullifier]

Well the Jeep is the logical choice for comfort and highway driving for sure. More room in the "cab" plus the modern amenities. What's nice about the toy option is you can drop the camper out, have a simple vehicle to work on and save about 70k.

But sunce both of those are out of my budget right not I just have to :drool: over both of them.

[StumpXJ]

Here's a comparison of specifications of the two vehicles, starting with the chassis. I'll post a comparison of the campers soon.


Dont forget to post a price comparison as well.... im just sayin :victory:

~James

[haven]

And here's a comparison of the camper section of the two vehicles. The Earthroamer is a custom design, while the Toyota employs a Four Wheel Camper "Ranger" model. Some equipment in this particular camper is a factory option.

2. The camper

sleeping accommodations
Jeep..two adults above plus one child below
Toy...two adults above plus a third adult or two children below
(neither vehicle can seat more than two adults while driving)

construction
Jeep..composite laminate
Toy...aluminum frame, aluminum siding and top

appearance
Jeep..camper painted to match truck
Toy...camper does not match truck paint

attachment to vehicle
Jeep..permanently attached, pass-through to cab difficult but possible
Toy...removable (unhook 4 bolts and battery cable ), jack stands included
Toy...sliding window faces cab (option) no passthrough

bed
Jeep..queen size (58 x 77"), plastic bedsprings, foam cushion
Toy...queen size (64 x 76"), 2" thick foam cushions

internal storage space
Jeep..13.5 cu ft of cabinets, plastic storage tubs included
Toy...storage closet, drawers by sink, storage under bench seat and settee

pop-up top
Jeep..flips open 180*, closes by winch and cable
Toy...opens straight up by hand (one end at a time), gravity close

additional tent
Jeep..vestibule at rear entrance standard, attaches to the open top
Toy...awning for back door available as option

Awning
Jeep..none
Toy...8 foot Fiamma awning (option)

interior lighting
Jeep..LED task and reading lights
Toy...two 12V overhead lamps
Toy...custom Hella reading lights in pop top

exterior lighting
Jeep..LED lights
Toy...conventional 12V "back porch" light

refrigerator
Jeep..3 cu ft, top opening
Toy...3 cu ft, includes freezer, front opening (upgrade)
Toy...3 way power: AC, DC, propane

interior seating
Jeep..two individual seats next to one another, facing the range
Toy...bench seat along one side

fabrics and floor covering
Jeep..commercial grade/heavy duty
Toy..."deluxe fabric"

Electrical system
Jeep..160 amp alternator, 80 watt solar panel, 210 amp-hour AGM battery
Jeep..also possible to hook up to external source of 110V AC
Jeep..marine grade wiring, charge controller, and battery monitor
Jeep..four 12V DC and one 110V AC outlets in camper

Toy...160 amp alternator, house battery mounted in truck bed
Toy...battery charge monitor, 300 watt DC inverter
Toy...also possible to hook up to external source of 110V AC
Toy...85 watt solar panel is optional, not included in this example
Toy..one 12V outlet standard, extra 12V and 110V outlets optional

Heating and Ventilation
Jeep..7500 BTU heater w/ fan (fuel is gasoline), thermostat control
Jeep..single variable speed fan with thermostat
Toy...12,000 BTU heater w/ fan, propane fuel, (option)
Toy..."arctic pack" extra insulation for pop-up (option)
Toy..one vent with variable speed Fantastic Fan, second roof vent (option)

Windows
Jeep..double pane acrylic in camper, 10 screened windows in pop top

Cooking
Jeep..two burner camp stove (propane? white gas?), set up outside
Toy...two burner stove, 20 lb propane tank

Water system
Jeep..25 gallons fresh water tank, 10 gallons grey tank with level monitors
Jeep..filtration system for fresh water
Jeep..4 gallon hot water tank, heated by engine
Jeep..4 gallons per minute electric water pump
Toy...12 gallon fresh water tank, no grey water tank
Toy...LED water level monitor
Toy...hot water heated by engine, Shurflo electric pump (option)

Toilet
Jeep..cassette toilet, 4 gallon capacity
Toy...no toilet (Porta Potty is optional)

Sink
Jeep..molded fiberglass, 8 inches deep
Toy...stainless steel

shower
Jeep..internal and external
Toy...external

miscellaneous
Jeep..locking fuel and water doors
Toy...deadbolt on door
Toy...roof-mounted luggage or boat rack is a factory option, 200 lb limit recommended

[Northern Explorer]

Great comparison. One thing to consider is that the Earthroamer Jeep is an off the shelf ready to go product. The Toyota / FWC combo shown required a wee bit of aftermarket work by the owner.

[Bergger]

I'd go with the Toyota set up. Those old trucks are just way cool and I think that option has more benefits and flexibilty. The only thing I wish the Toyota had was a Toyota engine like a 5VZ-FE.

[boblynch]

A flatbed popup would give you much more storage. Check out this one. Note the creative use of the space under the cabover.
26972 26973 26974

[haven]

Looking down the list of specifications, I think the two vehicles are pretty closely matched. I'd give the Toyota the higher marks as an off-the-road vehicle, and score the Earthroamer as a better camper. But both definitely get the job done!

As stumptaco says, we have to take the cost of the vehicles into consideration. The V8 Toyota and camper are for sale for $19,000, while a new Earthroamer XV-JP costs $110,000 before options are added. That price tag doesn't make the Earthroamer better or worse, it just narrows the number of people who can afford to purchase it.

Maybe it's more reasonable to compare two used vehicles. There's a used Earthroamer XV-JP with 29K miles advertised on the Earthroamer web site. This is the vehicle Scott Brady drove across the Rubicon Trail, in the process making it the first true camper to cross this famous trail.

The asking price for this used XV-JP is $59,500, a little more than 3 times as much as the Toyota. I can see how some people might find a newer vehicle with warranty protection to be worth the extra cash. It's also more likely you could convince your banker to loan you the money to buy a 3 year old vehicle instead of a 26 year old one!

Chip Haven

[LandCruiserPhil]

Anyone with the money can buy a Earthromer but there is only one of the Toyota. Truely being one of a kind is worth something.

[haven]

The 1983 Toyota pickup is unusual in many ways. For example, it's a "long bed" model, with a 7.5 foot long cargo box. This gives the "Ranger" camper enough support.

Few compact and mid-size 4x4 trucks offer a 7+ foot box today. Most have a six foot box, or shorter. And only the Chevy Colorado and Hummer H3T offer a V8 engine as an option.

One truck that's similar to the 83 Toyota long box with V8 is the 2000-2006 Toyota Tundra regular cab:

cargo box length 8 feet
cargo box width 4 feet
Exterior length 217.5"
Exterior body width 75.2"
Exterior height 71.1"
Wheelbase 128.3"
Payload 1,879 lbs.

The first generation Tundra is not a small vehicle, but its overall width is only half an inch more than the current Tacoma, and similar to the width of the Ranger camper.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z241/expeditioncampers/tundra-ranger.jpg

First generation Tundra standard cab trucks with V8, 4x4 and less than 90,000 miles cost about $9,000.
Figure $1000 for repairs and another $2500 to lift the suspension a little and purchase off-road tires.

A new Four Wheel Campers "Ranger" model starts at $10,500, and can easily cost $15,000.
Used models are half this amount, maybe less. Let's say $7000.

Total: $9000 + $1000 + $2500 + $7000 = $19,500
That's just about the asking price of that 1983 Toyota Longbed plus camper. Decisions, decisions!

Chip Haven

[kcowyo]

Two words - Hard Top


FWC for the win. :victory:


I would be interested in seeing both campers interior living space square footage numbers compared. I'm also curious as to the weight of the XV-JP, comparing the Jeep's GVWR, to the Toyota's GVWR with the FWC. While ER has managed to put a lot of features in a small package, it is still a small package.

And regarding the ER having an easy pass-through to cab, I'll give you that there is a pass-through, but it would only be easy for a small child or small pet. It shouldn't be confused with a van's easy pass-through. A grown adult won't be using that pass-through, except in an emergency.

A few other notes...

The FWC does not offer a grey water tank.
The ER also has one bench like the FWC, not two seats facing each other.
The FWC offers 6 windows standard and 4 with three layers; a screen, clear panel and interior privacy cover.
I have yet to see any pics of the ER featuring an interior cook top stove.


This is a fun exercise and I appreciate Chip breaking down so many of the numbers. Anyone would be lucky to have either vehicle in their possession.


:smiley_drive:
.

[haven]

Thanks, KC, for the corrections. I have updated the message that talks about the camper part of the vehicle above.

I also want to note that FWC makes campers (the Eagle and Finch models) that will fit on today's trucks with short bed length. I considered the Tundra because it has a V8, and because it can carry the FWC Ranger camper. That makes a more direct comparison with the 1983 Toyota V8.

Also, the Tundra has a greater carrying capacity than midsize trucks do, so you could carry the Ranger or other FWC models without upgrading the suspension. The midsize models' carrying capacity is around 1200 lbs, which is close to the weight of the camper plus passengers, food, and gear. FWC and other manufacturers (e.g., All Terrain Campers) recommend adding helper springs or air bags to a midsize truck.

[chet]

Good comparisons! Some other notes:

Parts
Jeep: came from factory this way.
Toy: Custom built and alot of one off parts that make it hard to source parts for unless you built it and know what they are.

Comfort:
Jeep: Wins hands down
Toy: Very small cab and the seats being so close to the floor do not make it a very good long distance traveller

Weight limit:
Jeep: unsure on this one
Toy: the Toy front axle is severely overstressed with all that weight and is probably bent. Would also eat king pin bearings.

I find the Toyota very cool but not a vehicle I would travel out of the states in. Being a stroked motor it decreases engine life severely due to the piston pin being into or close to the oil ring and long stroke/bore ratios.

[lqhikers]

To start off i'm all Toyo/fwc due to cost ,and because i own one.
Cost,if i damage it wreck it or whatever i can bear the cost.(i use my rig)
Also it is just another fwc,so it does not stand out in the back country,be it U.S. or south of the border(the earthroamer is pure bling in a lot of areas).
The toyota is basic again you can work on it in remote (few electronic's at the local auto shop!)locations.
I like that the comparisons were made as it shows that with a lot of planing,a lot of work a reasonable amount of money and desire you to can build a trail/street rig that a lot of money can only match,(my thought's)
Now the down side,i doubt that you could get this Toyo licensed in Calif,or a few other state's which would make it harder to sell or move your base.
Above are just my views.
Drive slow and enjoy "its the Journey"
Les,Lqhikers

[dzzz]

Who builds this one? It's a nice size.

Do the designers go out of their way to make these things ugly?




A flatbed popup would give you much more storage. Check out this one. Note the creative use of the space under the cabover.
26972 26973 26974

[dzzz]

As far as the jeep.
A new jeep with that offroad camping trailer(forgot the name) painted to match would look almost as custom as the JP. It wouldn't have the electronics, but the trailer can have better cooking. I would say comfort would be about the same.

With the $75K left over one could take some nice vacations.

[Desert Dan]

The old Dodge is bigger and may have the payload of the Jeep and Toyota put together.

It is hard to beat a new vehicle for relaibility, safety and simple things like disc brakes, and HVAC. dont ask me how I know these things LOL

A custom fabbed rig may not be the best for getting parts and so on unless you are a gear head.

[Wonderland]

Hands down I would choose the Toyota. My favorite body style, if it has the round headlights.

I don't think it would be that hard to get parts for, it is a Chevy motor after all, that just keep a list of the other parts he threw on there. No big deal.

A Jeep CJ8(?) Scrambler, with a FWC and Chevy swap, would be a better comparison.

The EarthRoamer is simply too much coin!

[dextercath96]

I think that it is good for your expedition camper to have solar panel. Because it is environmental friendly equipment. There is no pollution exert when you use that instead of using the gasoline that exert smoke. Sunpowerport Solar Generator (http://www.sunpowerport.com)