What makes Expedition Portal different - and valuable

[DesertRose]

A recent heated discussion in this section has produced some off-forum discussions that I thought would be interesting to share here - and see what people think.

As Expedition Portal grows, there are, of course, going to be more and more differing opinions in all the sections that host "hot topics" - be they brand wars or land use issues.

What makes a forum a forum is the priceless chance to share ideas, locations, information, skills, and - yes! - opinions.

What makes a forum unique, or different, then, is how those opinions and ideas are shared.

Those of us who populated and nurtured the forum in its infancy treasure the thoughtful and erudite discussions - even when they get rather hot!

There is some fear being expressed that ExPo will soon become "like every other truck site," driving those of us who love the uniqueness of ExPo elsewhere.

Could this be so?

I hope not!

I have never been much to join in on truck forums, personally, for a number of reasons. Frankly, as a woman interested in expeditions and who loves trucks, I never did feel comfortable in those forums whose members saw women less as participants and more as part of a lumped-together "wives/girlfriends" group from which to hide their expenditures . . . or to complain about their lack of understanding about their truck passion . . .

And as someone who is a professional Conservationist (and who has been executive director of an organization that - gasp! - closed illegal roads), I also felt really "in the line of fire" on those Other Forums (like if I am an environmentalist, I'm a communist or something).

But there is something really special about the people here on ExPo. Dare I say that the members by and large are also looking for something different - a place where you can be a truck fanatic, have discussions about the best gearing for an FJ40 whilst also exploring the finer points of Go or extol the virtues of single malt, rant about border issues and trail maintenance, quote Steinbeck and Emerson and Shackelton, and all the while profess a love for the wilderness and fight for it - and not see any conundrum in it because its just the way we all are!

What do you all think? How do we keep Expedition Portal from becoming Just Another Truck Forum?

I think some people - at least in this household - would really suffer if we lost this terrific resource.

[desertgirl66]

As a Landcruiser lover and adventurer and as a woman, this Portal is a valuable resource for me. It is great to be respected as a unique individual within the forum, and not just as a "wife/girlfriend."

I feel very comfortable checking out all the different discussions and I feel comfortable posting. And that is not something I do on other 4X4 forum sites!

Sometimes the discussions might go astray; however, we have awesome moderators that keep the threads and line of thought on track.

This is a sophisticated and intelligent and modern group of members here and let's all keep in mind that we are here for the same reason--to explore, share stories and experiences and valuable information.:)

[bigreen505]

What do you all think? How do we keep Expedition Portal from becoming Just Another Truck Forum?

I think some people - at least in this household - would really suffer if we lost this terrific resource.

I'm not sure if you followed Kcowyo's recent square-state adventure, but one look at the "views" shows that everyone here is interested in the journey, and I don't think that is going to change.

Trucks will always be a major part of the discussion here because we rely on them so heavily for most of our adventures and, well, they are just cool. But I don't think this will turn into Just Another Truck Forum becaue as cool as some of them are, they are just tools to get us where we want to go. I also would not look at the mod threads as hints that Expo is becoming Just Another Truck forum. Rather, they serve as place where people can ask questions and exchange ideas.

There will always be yahoos who sign up, discover people here are nicer and smarter than the average internet drivel and think they can act like jerks. We recently ran into the same problem on another board I frequent. One thread went more than 1200 posts, all on topic, all friendly informed discussion (though occasionally mildly heated) until last week some genius decides he's right and everyone else is wrong and makes his point as rudely as possible, becuase he thinks it makes him look smater/better/higher on the food chain than the rest of us. The guy who started the thread basically told him to shut up and behave or he would delete the thread and its entire 1220 posts of knowledge. The troll decided behaving was a reasonable alternative.

While I would never suggest that ExPo be moderated with an iron fist, I do think we need to make sure the tone and focus of the Portal remains intact as we grow with new members. And while polite reminders (such as yours in the other thread) should be all that is necessary, occasionally posts should be deleted and occasionally some people should be booted.

We have a great community that will undoubtedly grow and evolve over time, but it is up to all of us to make sure it continues in the right direction.

[Grim Reaper]

I think the biggest thing that makes this forum Different is it is not a hardcore "rock crawl" crowd. There are a few that do enjoy that kind of offroad adventure but the majority of us are people who just want to get off the beaten path and "Explore" remote areas for a little bit more then a weekend at a time.

Because of that difference it attracts people who don't want or need a truck capable of 1000 RTI. As an example if you went to Pirate4x4 Toyota Forum and asked what you can do to make your 86 or newer truck more capable the first or second reply is "IFS SUCKS Cut it off and do a SAS and run 38's". Well it is a "extreme rock crawl" site so the vast majority of the members are interested in driving over VW sized boulders at places like "The Hammers" and Moon Rocks. Many of the other boards like IH8mud, TTORA, Yotatech etc have a similar member base. That’s not to say they don't have great tech. You have an issue with a Toyota those places are a great resource.

This site tends to stick with 33 inch tires, mild lifts and outback outfiting for more extended trips. IFS doesn't Suck here. The modification the people of this board are interest in and the terrain the members plan to travel on is well within the capability of a mildly modified vehcile.

As long as the general founding ideas of this board do not change this board will always be unique.

[seth_js]

Let me start by saying this is my favorite forum on the internet (and I spend A LOT of time on the internet). I agree with what has been said about some of the other forums, but that doesn't stop me from participating on them. I dislike some of the people on those forums as much as the next guy (ie, TTORA), but they are invaluable resources. You have a very large audience of people that know A LOT about your specific vehicle, and have tried just about anything you can think of. So to me, its still worth skimming through them and occasionally posting a question. You just have to learn to ignore the yahoos.

[Ursidae69]

What do you all think? How do we keep Expedition Portal from becoming Just Another Truck Forum?


By keeping great moderators like yourself around. :clapsmile All the mods on this board are great.

I have many friends around the US thanks to past forums I've been a member of as well as this forum. I'm glad ExPo is here, open to all platforms and opinions. Party on. :beer:

[BajaTaco]

What do you all think? How do we keep Expedition Portal from becoming Just Another Truck Forum?

I think some people - at least in this household - would really suffer if we lost this terrific resource.

I think we can keep it on track by just doing what we have already done. This forum is what it is because of the members. If the members keep up the great content and enjoy some good-natured humor along the way, it will always be a great place to teach, learn, & share what we enjoy. It's up to the members to "self-police" this place to keep it the way we enjoy it. I would like to thank all of the members for doing such a great job at this and notifying the moderators when something needs attention.

I would also like to take this opportunity to remind all who may read this thread... that we are very fortunate to have the wonderful women here that we do. I think it is SO COOL to see adventurous and expeditionary women here at ExPo and I really hope that more will join in the future. I would encourage EVERYONE to keep this in mind and make this a place where women feel welcome and interested in being here. That won't be the case if they have to sift through derogatory comments, photos, etc. So keep in mind that this isn't a typical truck forum and that there aren't just guys reading what you post. I know a lot of us are starting to feel quite comfortable here... maybe a little too comfortable perhaps? Anyway, just a reminder.

Here's a toast to all of you at ExPo! :beer:

[crawler#976]

Dichotomy:

A dichotomy is a division into two non-overlapping or mutually exclusive and jointly exhaustive parts. They are often contrasting and spoken of as "opposites". The term comes from dichotomos (divided): dich- ([in] two) temnein (to cut).

That's me...Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

One side is dedicated to the preservation of existing trails - adamantly opposed to closures of any type, for any reason. Once it’s gone, it’s gone. Forever.

The opposite side sees the wanton destruction of habitat via development and over use, be it by OHV’s or irresponsible land management by private or government agency. That makes me equally as angry.

I’m a rock crawler – love it. Can’t afford it, but I NEED the rush…

I’ve been exploring by vehicle since I was 16. Camped, hunted, hiked. Man, I miss taking long hikes! So now as a slightly over middle aged guy with bad knees, I “hike” by motorized means. Back to my roots, doing more exploring, going for trail rides.

EXPO offers me the opportunity to meet like minded folks – some slanted towards Jekyll and some towards Hyde…and I’m not saying who's who :hehe:

So, let's keep it civil, and best of all, a place where we can become educated on opposing points. Who knows, I may change my mind on certain issues, and hopefully other will consider my veiw points - from both sides of my bent, twisted, and tortured mind...

Mark

[slooowr6]

This is my first post on the forum. What you guys are doing is what keeps me going to work every day in hope I can do the same in the future. I read a lot of your expedition trips and that keeps me, a cubicle bond software code monkey, stay sane.
It's the journey that seperate this forum from others, truck mod and all the technology are very interesting but the ability to take you guys to the place you want to be in what matters. A reliable truck/car/van/etc with enough ability for the trail is what this forum is about.
I don't have an expedition vehicle yet, I only have a 2wd Vanagon wesy. I hope someday I can meet you guys and join your expedition trips.
Please keep posting your trips, that's our (cube bond code monkey) last hope!:wavey:

Alex
________
Ducati 750 Imola (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Ducati_750_Imola)

[ZooJunkie]

The one thing that I have found within the threads of this forum is that no one here will post a reply to criticize your lack of knowledge or approach to a specific problem. No one will take the time to insult you because you did not search before posting.

It's all about the journey and how we get there. It's not about who has the bigger exhaust. Because of this, I do not believe ExPo will ever succrumb to the pressure of the evil internet world of large forums.

Now, GO DO A SEARCH NOOB!!!

:elkgrin:

[+ d]

I like how this thread was posted in the Conservation sub forum... ExPo is indeed like a nature preserve in the middle of a big mean, insolent city…a cool respite among boiling, anonymity-fueled egos. I think the conservation of this atmosphere and forum culture is a worthy topic.

In my mind ExPo has one major factor that will prevent it from slipping into the anarchy that affects so many other forums...our benevolent dictator (and his crew of mindful-mods). This forum seems different than others in that it has a face…it exists for the community, not for the trucks. I think its pretty hard, even for the dumbest of 4x4 rednecks, not to see that their idiocy probably don’t have an audience here.

[Wanderlusty]

I have seen my fair share of forums go thru the whole life cycle of online forums.

I keep telling myself and hoping that ExPo never has to go thru the mess so many other online forums go through.

ExPo is SO unique to what I have experienced with online forums. I hope it never loses it's charm. I would rather have the intelligent dialogue that is the norm here than the troll-ridden BS that is other boards ANY DAY.

I understand the conundrum. As an online community grows, inevitably, the village spawns a few idiots. It is kinda just the way things end up going.

What to do about it is a much more difficult problem. Part of me wants to bottle up the good, draw the line in the sand and say the best is already here. Lock it up and lets have fun, everyone else say away. But clearly, that is not realistic. Not only would we eventually wither and die anyway, but along with the one yahoo troll often comes 10 who only add to the richness.

Whether we ever 'really' have serious trouble around here, I certainly hope not.

For now, though, through the mature self moderation and skilled efforts of the appointed mods, any skirmishes (when they do happen...which is very seldom) are handled quickly and in an even-handed way.

I like that. I hope that is always going to do the trick. I don't really think we are anywhere near to a crisis point, but if we do, I think the quality of the members we have here will see us through.

[60seriesguy]

I'm not sure which thread we're referring to (I've been traveling non-stop for work), but I do want to throw in my $0.02.

What's amazing to me about this forum is the depth *and* span of knowledge represented on our membership. I always feel like I'm in good company on the rare ocasions when I post, and while my own experiences pale in comparison to some of our members, I feel like I can still contribute to the overall "knowledge pool".

One glaring difference between this and other forums stems directly from the main reason for Expo's existence; the very nature of the expedition involves not just the courage to challenge yourself and manage the risk you put you and your passengers through, but also a high capacity for planning and THOUGHT. What I admire most about ExPo is the way people approach their trips, the way they plan their trips, the way they balance performance upgrades and cost, the way people share even simple upgrades without fear of coming across as a (I hate this term) "newbie".

Too many 4x4 forums degenerate into a testosterone fest where the line between courage and stupidity blurs....

It's been my experience throughout the better part of 12 years involved in the cyber-4x4 world that most threads that get ugly and degenerate into chaos tend to be on low-moderation, open topic forums like Chit-Chat. The more controlled the participation is, the better things tend to run, look at the difference between POR and MUD. Inevitably, however, as we reach a critical mass of thousands of enthusiasts, it's likely that some of the "chronic disruptors" will make their way here, we all need to pitch in to help moderate them.

As for marque preference, everyone knows that I am an incorrigible Cruiserhead and a closet Land Rover fanatic. But some of the coolest vehicles on this forum are neither, and it's evident from just scanning the forum that there is an incredible variety of very capable vehicles out there. I don't think I'd have it any other way.

Finally, and without any hidden agendas of any kind, I want to thank Scott for taking the time to create a venue for the rest of us incurable wanderers to meet and share ideas and thoughts. I dreamed of something like this for years! :)

[flyingwil]

I think Baja Taco hit the nail on the head by stating "self policing." We all make the forum what it is today, to this date I have only seen about three threads (one of which I closed and deleted as a moderator) where the content was close to where we all do not want the portal to end up.

So far, that is an outstandingly small number (not counting the spammers that leak in) in comparison with the total number of threads! :wings:

IMO, Some issue are heated and create opinions to come pouring out, and the bashing and flaming begins, we in turn need to police ourselves to respect others opinions and constructively get out our opinions across, and keeping the portal as great as it is today.

[DesertRose]

Thank you, everybody, for the thoughtful comments. I was hoping we could define aloud more of the qualities of ExPo that we all want to preserve - and I think we have! That will certainly help us - we can touch back on these musings from time to time.

Although size in a forum can lead to more abuse, it's not always the case. One other forum I frequented quite a bit where I felt comfortable any place, and didn't see much abuse, was GlockTalk.com - where there are over 63,000 (yes!) members and at any one time more people online than belong to ExPo. The reason is in large part the "benevelent dictator" and really good moderators.

Thanks again - and let's not forget the best reason for a great forum: all the great members!:p

[DesertRose]

This is my first post on the forum.

Thanks, Alex! Nice to know you're here - and that we're seriously contributing to the lack of productivity in corporate America.:o



I don't have an expedition vehicle yet, I only have a 2wd Vanagon wesy.

Oh, I don't know about that! I happen to know a member on this forum, a certain nephew of mine, working on a very cool mod of a Wesy - perhaps he'll eventually share.

Enjoy the forum Alex!:sombrero:

[grouch]

I find myself spending much more time here than the "truck sites" due to the topic matter as much as the people.

[flywgn]

A recent heated discussion in this section has produced some off-forum discussions ....

Guess I missed that thread. Just as well I suppose. I did read all the posts up to this point on this thread.

I came to this forum just a year ago searching for information on bio-diesel and found interesting, thoughtful, courteous dialog covering topics that Diana and I love. I've found no reason to delete the site from my 'bookmarks'.

As the site grows it will undoubtedly attract some members who may be argumentative, impolite, disrespectful, or downright rude. Guess that's no different from what one might find in the public forums. Here I'm referring to those forums that range from 'round table' to 'standing room only' public hearings/discussions. It seems to me that more persons you have involved, the less likely it is that reasonable, two-sided discussions take place, and there's always some hothead in the audience who tries to shout the loudest and the most often.

I suppose this isn't always the case, but the anonymity of these internet forums makes it easy for anyone who leans towards vituperatory rejoinders to find a place to vent his/her spleen.

Since my entire career in education, save a few times when I was guest lecturer in a couple of college classes, was spent in secondary education, I've had my share of sophomoric behavior.

One of the qualities of this forum is that there appears to be an absence of sophomores. Cheers! There seems to be a scarcity, perhaps dearth, of game-playing. Exchanges for the most part are on an adult level. Parental replies are almost non-existant. (Apologies for the blatant use of Eric Berne's descriptives.)

I don't spend a great deal of time on internet forums. For the reasons I mentioned above, I continue to return to this one and eschew those which harbor members of the sophomore class.

Allen R

[Brian McVickers]

... the anonymity of these internet forums makes it easy for anyone who leans towards vituperatory rejoinders ....

Allen R

Here are two great examples of what makes EXPO so great.
1- Although this is an internet forum and allows for a certain level of anonymity, I bet 75% of the people here know at least one other person personally and have met them in person. We also do a good job at getting to know one another through the ocupation thread, the where do you live thread, the tell us about your vehicle thread and scheduled adventures.

2- This is a place to learn, about everything from everyone. For example, I had to look up two words from the post above and now I know what "vituperatory" means, what a "rejoinder" is and how well the two words go together. Nice use of words Allen!

:clapsmile

[HongerVenture]

One reason I love Expo is because it stretches the "black and white; right or wrong" attitude the engineer in me is so wont to adhere to. Don't get me wrong, I'm still quite a bit like that, but I'm not condemned for it.

Folks here are forgiving of my ignorance and employ gentle instruction and teaching. Thanks for that!

Any sophomoric comments around here are generally intended for humor, not for harm. Those that have been harmful have generally been motivated by passion... something all of us possess and I'm sure all of us have been bettered by it a time or two.

Finally, isn't Allen R's vocabulary great stuff! I frequently employ the dictionary when reading his posts... I love placing new words into my vocabulary. After reading his posts I always feel more perspicacious.

[datrupr]

I believe I was the 49th member of this forum, not to boast. This is the only forum that I now frequent and post often in. Since day one I have loved the insight and helpfulness of the great group of people here. And while I may be one of the top posters here, I certainly do not pretend to know everything, or a lot for that matter. I enjoy and partake inthe discussions here, comment on the trucks, trips, pictures, and even the playful banter that goes on around here. I think what makes this forum particularly great is the group of people that it caters to. While we are an off road community, we are a different sort of animal in this community. Most of us are well travelled, or wish to be, have respect for other people, cultures, etc. and also for our environment, community, and activity. There is never one superior truck here, they are all equally capable, and functional in thier own rights, and they all have thier downsides as well. And the fact that everyone here is willing to share with thoughts, ideas, and compliments is a great tribute to the caliber of people this forum attracts. I think with over 500 members, and very few trouble makers (leave KC, Mark F'n, and myself out of it, that is a different kind of trouble:D ) helps to dictate the type of members we (the current members/posters) attract. That, and also, whenever Allen posts up I too need to get a dictionary out. I feel like I am reading Norman Mailer when I read Allen's great and very insightful posts. This is a great place, and with our awesome mods, and wonderful members I think it will stay this way for quite some time.

[calamaridog]

What makes a forum unique, or different, then, is how those opinions and ideas are shared.

I agree to disagree. (This is my motto:)) It really is that simple.

I don't take it personally and I don't hold a grudge. I'm here to have a good time, learn, and make some friends.

I am grateful for all the hard work and experience that makes Expo so wonderful. A big thank you to all the moderators who help make Expo a fun place to hang out:beer:

[articulate]

But there is something really special about the people here on ExPo. Dare I say that the members by and large are also looking for something different - a place where you can be a truck fanatic, have discussions about the best gearing for an FJ40 whilst also exploring the finer points of Go or extol the virtues of single malt, rant about border issues and trail maintenance, quote Steinbeck and Emerson and Shackelton, and all the while profess a love for the wilderness and fight for it - and not see any conundrum in it because its just the way we all are!

Great statement. Good timing. At least once a week I get concerned that I haven't contributed anything worthwhile; a joke here, a smartass comment there.... My concern is that I'm helping degrade everything good and noble about this place.

However, you know what I haven't seen around here? The phrase Do a search, it's been discussed here at least 100 times!!!. If some dude asks if a certain tire size will fit his truck without trimming, you can expect a respectful answer to follow.

We noticed that a potty mouth filter went into effect, too. You know what? I love Twain: "Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." There's a good chance I've pushed the limits of the prayer-extending value of wholesome profanity. :)

Here's to life, folks.

"The road goes on forever, and the party never ends."

Mark

[Jonathan Hanson]

Mark, you're such a $&*#%^!

Maybe we need a Markometer for gauging profanity?

[bigreen505]

However, you know what I haven't seen around here? The phrase Do a search, it's been discussed here at least 100 times!!!.

Or you get a suggestion to do a search, often on another forum, with specific url's and search terms. Definitely a different crowd.

[desertgirl66]

Mark,

You are the comic relief :elkgrin:

[goodtimes]

Maybe we need a Markometer for gauging profanity?

Great, I'll have that thing in the ****ing red in no time.

[bootzilla]

This is my first post on the forum. What you guys are doing is what keeps me going to work every day in hope I can do the same in the future.

I totally understand what Alex is saying. For those of us who live in the Mid-Atlantic, there are sooo few places for us to go, that it is great to be able to know what kind of cool stuff I'll be able to do when I finally get the chance to move out west! :truck:

This place is all about the adventure. Off-roading is only half of the fun - the other half is the adventure, and realizing that is what makes this place different.

And the people are definitely great. When I bought my Trooper, I found Scott's site while surfing the 'net looking for info - and I e-mailed him totally out of the blue with a question. Not only did he get back to me with an answer, but he invited me to check out ExPo, and I'm glad he did! There really is a sense of community here, and I think it is great that there are all kinds of different makes and models represented, and everyone is cool with each other!

Now I just gotta get my work stuff going strong so I can have the freedom to either move out West, or take the time to stray further away from my home base here :1888fbbd: !

[seth_js]

We noticed that a potty mouth filter went into effect, too. You know what? I love Twain: "Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." There's a good chance I've pushed the limits of the prayer-extending value of wholesome profanity. :)

Mark

Good time for me to formally apologize for my foul mouth. I am aware that I use a lot of profanity, and sometimes it comes out in my posts here. I'll try to behave myself better in the future. I don't want to get banned from the expo. Then what would I do all day at work? :p

[devinsixtyseven]

(again, i know, old thread...but probably an ongoing issue...)

i joined the forums here because it didn't seem like a truck forum. im a moderator on a truck forum, and...there's more to life. i have the truck to get there, that's all.

it seems more like an outdoor adventure forum populated by people with trucks and without various chips on their shoulders, and that's why it's my favorite (if not most active) online hangout.

it has, i think, (potential profanity coming up), the lowest asshat quotient of any forum i've ever seen...approaching or at zero. everyone here seems blessed with an uncommon helping of patience, understanding, tolerance, and common sense :beer:.

...and i am hoping some of it rubs off on me :D.

-sean

[BajaTaco]

... the lowest asshat quotient of any forum i've ever seen...

:victory: :victory: :victory:

[DesertRose]

everyone here seems blessed with an uncommon helping of patience, understanding, tolerance, and common sense :beer:.

...and i am hoping some of it rubs off on me :D.

-sean

Hi Sean! The only thing we don't have patience, understanding, and tolerance for is impatience, refusal to understand (others have legitimate points of view), and intolerance. Common sense is debatable.:p Beer is a given. Welcome!

[upcruiser]

I hadn't replied in this thread and wanted to throw in a few words. First off, thanks to Scott and all the mods who make this site what it is (that would be great entertainment, informational resource, and just plain good mental food for daydreaming).

For me this forum is great becasue its more about the adventure in general. We all have different reason we enjoy the treks we do. It is awesome to have a place where everyone who seemingly enjoys the outdoors in MANY different ways and has a shared love of travel and adventure can socialize, share their experiences, and inspire others. This is more then just a form of recreation for me, and most of you here, its a lifestyle.

Happy New Year to all, let 2007 bring lots of new adventures.

[dieck]

Late to the party...

This forum is the best. The reasons for me are:

1. Very accepting group of folks. Few insults, little arrogance, and a willingness to share permeates the forum

2. Very knowledgeable! If I go to my local 4x4 shop and I ask a techical question, I almost alwasy get an uninformed answer, one that directs me to the item with the most markup, or worst of all, a blank stare. The contributors in this forum depend on their vehicles to be dependable and well engineered and the knowledge runs deep and is based off of personal experience.

3. There seems to be a focus on rugged, simple, functional, and efficient (for expeditions) modifications more for hard use that bling. (A little bling is nice though).

You guys rock!

-H