Mac or not, that is the ?

[flyingwil]

So our Dell laptop has been starting to take a sh!t every time we really need it. So we are looking into new computer options. At this point we are leaning towards a MAC....Did I really just say that!? We are looking at a iMac 2.33GHz Intel Core Duo. I went and spent a good hour at the apple store asking questions and such.

So what to you guys think? MAC or stick PC?

[bigreen505]

I think there are very few good reasons not to buy a Mac. You pay for the name, but in my opinion you are paying for higher quality parts too. They just plain work.

To me the worst type of computer you could buy is a PC laptop because they are far too easy to turn into a frisbee when you get the blue screen of death constantly.

[TACODOC]

My next unit will be a Mac. Go for it!

[Scott Brady]

Too early for me to comment

Displayes are incredible, no time with the apps yet.

Needs a right mouse button

[bigreen505]

Needs a right mouse button

Go buy a third party mouse, doesn't really matter which one. Life is much better with buttons. The Wacom I use has five and it makes life significantly easier.

[gjackson]

Go buy a third party mouse

Yep. Customize your functionality!! (Scroll wheel is key as well!!)

cheers

[k6uk]

http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/thinkpad/images/Xtab-1L.gif
I have had VERY good luck with Thinkpads (now made by Lenovo) - solid as a rock. Very good machine.

I have also heard good things about Lifebooks, although I have never owned one - yet!

I'm also sold on the trackpoint (especially the way the thinkpad has it) and just hate touchpads - but that is just my preference.

-Mike

[Robthebrit]

Now that you can natively run windows on the Mac hardware there is little need to buy a PC, assuming a Mac is in your price range. The thing that always stopped me from getting a Mac was simply I need to sometimes run apps that are not on the Mac. Typically I read my email, browse the web and use apps that are on both platforms and a mac would be great, now I could dual boot to windows when I need.

My next computer will be a mac for sure.

Rob

[flyingwil]

Now, a new option rolls on in with Window Vista (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/)coming around the bend. Seems a lot like the Mac OS... but now on PC's. Would that really be something to consider when comparing to an iMac?

[Jonathan Hanson]

Wil, you won't be sorry if you buy a Mac. My Powerbook is almost four years old and it has never failed. I mean not a single crash. All the issues people are conditioned to expect with Microsoft products just don't exist in the Mac world. And I have no program compatibility issues with any editor or designer I work with. That's really not a factor any more, although PC salespeople would love you to think it is.

Think about this: Roseann and I do not own antivirus software. How much money and time have you spent trying to prevent your PC from getting infected with spyware, spambots, etc. etc. etc.? The number of successful Mac OS viruses can be counted on one hand, versus thousands for PC systems.

Macs are much better able to handle multiple simultaneous programs without slowing down or crashing. It's simply a better product, and worth far more than the extra cost.

Remember the famous words of Dr. Martin Luther King when he switched to an early Mac: "Free at last! Free at last! Thank God almighty, we are free at last!"

[HenryJ]

I am going to offer another view.

I grew up with Mac. I continued with Mac and still have one today. They have their place. A Mac handles graphics like nothing else. They preform faster with a given processor speed, and are mostly trouble free. If you are satisfied with the software that is available and rarely try new software or devices you will be pleased.

I enjoy keeping up with the latest "thing" In a mac world you can not just download Jim Cox's USAphotomap and try the program. There are "hoops" to jump through to get it to work. That is if it will. The support for Mac software is just not there. I had a couple programs that were dropped from further upgrades. Corel and DeLorme. They had a good product. Just not enough demand. The products have progressed in the windows format and now far exceed the Mac version.

My last "upgrade" was quite a while ago now. I went portable. I considered many options including Mac. For me it came down to "bang-for-the-buck". The windows machines are cheaper, software is available and cheap. The Compaq Presario that I bought back then has been my primary computer ever since.

I think it all depends upon what you want to do with it. If you just use it for internet and do graphics the Mac may indeed be superior.
If you want portable and affordable a windows machine may be a good way to go.
If price is your primary consideration, it is hard to beat a "Wallyworld box" then add a graphics card and memory for a nice speed machine.

It really is tough. There are so many factors that can alter the decision.

For mine I set out the "needs": CD burner , 1.5 ghz-up, 17" screen, 60 gb hard drive, ethernet, modem, PCMCIA card slot, USB.
Then add some "bells": portable

At the time a sub $400 "Wallyworld windows box" met the needs, however for $750 I picked up a decent laptop from Staples. I made the right choice.

Mac was not even an affordable option.

Summary: If you are lazy and cheap, buy a windows box. If you are rich , satisfied with what you have and patient , go Mac. :D

[DesertRose]

Mac was not even an affordable option.

Summary: If you are lazy and cheap, buy a windows box. If you are rich , satisfied with what you have and patient , go Mac. :D

I offer yet another view vis a vis the above comment - and I admit to being a rather passionate Mac convert. If you are poor and smart, buy a Mac!

Yes it depends on what you're doing with the computer, but for us (who make our living on our home/work computers) - time is money. And I cannot even add up all the hours, yes hours, wasted over the last 10 years on Windows machines. It's phenomenal what a bad OS it is. I mean really really bad. And every time they come out with an "upgrade" it has additional problems. Why has Vista (the non-existent OS formerly known as Longhorn?) taken what, 5 years to not get here?

I am baffled why people think cheap is cheaper. It's not always. If you buy a lower quality car and it costs you 10 trips to the garage a year versus a Toyata that was $5K more but you only have to feed it gas and change the fluids for 100,000 miles . . . what was cheaper? A midsized company with 30 employees and 30 computers will need at least 2 full time techs to keep up with all the problems of Windows - Macs would significantly lower staff and consultant time and improve productivity. Cheap up front or value in the longrun.

Anyway the bottom line is also: if you value your time, and who does not, then buy the best OS. The world is waking up to the fact that there is a growing Mac market, and more software is available. I think things like GPS support will also improve.

Also, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - more streamlined than the entertainment components of Apple. All our music is on iPod, which updates seamlessly with our computers and also acts as a mini backup harddrive for Contacts and Calendars; we hook our iBook up to a high rez LCD projector to watch movies at full projection; we download movies and music - and never any problems playing or using anything.

There's a clear reason why so many people on this forum have Toyotas and yes, even Land Rovers! Quality. There's not a section for Ladas, is there?

Plus, I want you to buy a Mac because I just invested a nice chunk in Apple stock.:victory:

[whitethaiger]

I don't really want to get into the "religious" Apple vs. PC discussion, but I risk a post anyway...

First: Work forces me to use Windows so it's really easiest to carry all that experience and used (free, how's that for inexpensive?) hardware over to the personal side.

I've to mostly agree with HenryJ. My experience is very similar.

I've always liked the design (appearance of outside of box) of Apple products, but the limited software options (couldn't use OziExplorer!) and expensive hardware upgrades have always kept me on PC's.
The software problem seems be gone now that one can have dual-boot machines and at least one forum member is using Ozi with Apple hardware with some success.

People keep talking about the blue screen and crashes. It's been many, many years since I've seen any of that. Of course I've switched to the NT line of Windows OS's when they first came out.

It also sounds like everything Apple does or makes is great. Well, here are a couple of grains of salt
- When they came out with those large capacity iPods I was going to get one with their little adapter to download/backup pictures directly from the camera. A little research revealed that that adapter was pretty worthless taking forever to transfer 1G and draining both camera and iPod battery at the same time. This was early this year, don't know if things changed yet.

- Recently I got their little iPod+Nike sensor for running (sensor in shoe, receiver at iPod nano) to use during my half marathon training. And Apple does that monopoly thing again: You are supposed to buy the Nike shoe, because only that has a place for the sensor. (I did a shoe mod :rolleyes: and things worked just fine). The software that runs on the iPod is lacking some features the most glaring is that one can only upload data to Nike for display. No custom comments or data can be added, stuff can not be saved on the hard drive. So for anyone training even moderately seriously this is more a nice toy than a serious tool.

Bottom line: Whatever you buy, truck or computer or whatever, know what you want/need from it and then carefully research what the options are out there. There is just no perfect solution out there that fits everyone the same.

[GeoRoss]

I've always liked the design (appearance of outside of box) of Apple products, but the limited software options (couldn't use OziExplorer!) and expensive hardware upgrades have always kept me on PC's.
The software problem seems be gone now that one can have dual-boot machines and at least one forum member is using Ozi with Apple hardware with some success.

I like Ozi alot also, but I like Mac's alot more. There is a fantastic GPS-mapping program called MacGPS Pro. It is a great program and inexpensive.

Ross

[HongerVenture]

Wil,

I'd definitely go Mac. I've been a Mac fan and Mac user since before it was cool (I always like to say that). I grew up on Macintosh and never felt application deprived. All the applications, games, and internet browsing my parents would allow was done on a Mac.

I don't currently have a Mac (college required us to purchase a PC laptop) but will soon.

My parents are still Mac users. My mother is a teacher and her iMac is indispensable for her work. My father does IT support for a company that is all PC... and he takes his Mac G4 laptop to work everyday to help him work on the network. Neither of them fell software or application deprived.

I do agree that GPS is a little under-supported on Mac at this time... but that is changing rapidly. In addition, Mrs. Hanson makes an excellent point about the entertainment/media components of Apple. Documenting your trips (photos and video) is made very easy on Mac as is managing your music.

Go Mac... you'll never go back.

BTW, if you want to spend less to see how you like Mac's first, try a refurbished unit from Apple. My family bought a refurbed unit in the past and it still works... though it doesn't get much use anymore with a 75Mhz processor, in fact my dad probably already donated it away.

[Desertdude]

Too early for me to comment

Displayes are incredible, no time with the apps yet.

Needs a right mouse button

Note; the mighty mouse has right and left click ( not physically seen) as well as the two buttons on the side - and a scroll wheel

[Desertdude]

Not a PC/Mac debate just my Apple experience

I have a stable full of Apple products - I am always humored by the fear of not enough SW or how expensive Apple products are ( even Garmin is soon to work with Apple) -

Apple always includes in the box and installed many iApps of SW you need to have fun - create or do business - and things just work easily -

Plus you have a company that is driven to constantly improve and upgrade - the OS is in constant improvement - and with Apples Software Update the app finds the latest Apple updates and installs with ease - (read no effort) -

At http://discussions.apple.com/index.jspa you can read and learn about what's right and what is wrong with an Apple product or just search/post a question and get near instant help

There are some business SW that I would like to have not found on the Mac - problem is I can not get into the hardware offered ( laptop/desktop) and when I view the Windows OS it feels and looks like 1985 - not the year 2006 - for me personally if I can't do what I need/want to do on a Mac - then I would rather not go there :088:

in the end there will always be some Hardware/SW issues due to quality control - just a bad batch - or something not quite ready for prime time - Apple has the best CS and has helped me out on a few occasions - I give a call to Apple care - they send a box and pick it up - they fix and send it back in a few days turn around - somethings under warranty some things are on my dime ( and caused by me)

If you do go for a new iMac - I would suggest budgeting in Apple care - gives you three years of peace of mind and plenty of support along the way

Also: fill that thing with as much operating ram as you can from Apple

and... last but not least - head down to your local Apple store and have fun with one before you purchase :victory:

[Jonathan Hanson]

From the Washington Post. No comment needed:

"Patch Tuesday October 10 2006 has marked a new high in water line of flaws discovered in Microsoft software. In all, a record 26 flaws covering both Windows and Office products have resulted in Microsoft issuing 10 patches, six of which carry the most severe critical tag.

Some of the patches also apply to Windows Vista and two apply to Office on the Apple Mac. The Apple patches are rated as important but not critical, while information the specific Vista patches is still not available at the time of writing.

Of the most critical updates, four were for the Office suite. All of the main Office products - Word, Excel and PowerPoint - required updates to serious vulnerabilities that if exploited could hand over control of the computer to an attacker. One update affects the entire Office suite."

[Ursidae69]

The search button works great! I was wondering about laptops and this thread came up. Having never owned a Mac or even used one, is it hard to change over? Also, are there any recommendations from anyone for a Mac laptop?

[Gear]

Scott, (or any new Mac owners) any feed back on your new Mac. I am in the market. What did you get exactly and if you had to do it over would you buy the same model. :D

Thanks

[Freezer]

VMware is going to release their workstation software for Mac in the near future. It enables you to run multiple operating systems simultaneously.

VMware (http://www.vmware.com/)

It't kinda cool because you can separate your OS and SW from your HW so you can run any HW platform you want.:jumping:

[DaveInDenver]

VMware is going to release their workstation software for Mac in the near future.

This is certainly a huge development. But, FWIW, Apple gives away Boot Camp, which allows Windows and OS X to co-exist on the same machine. This is natively running Windoze, not emulated like Virtual PC used to be.

[goodtimes]

This is certainly a huge development. But, FWIW, Apple gives away Boot Camp, which allows Windows and OS X to co-exist on the same machine. This is natively running Windoze, not emulated like Virtual PC used to be.


That is nice and all, but lets all come back to reality for just a minute and type in English.

Lets say someone (me) is considering options for a laptop. I'm no rocket scientist, certainly no IT guru, and I have absolutely zero interest in becoming one. I like user friendly applications that don't take 6 months to learn to use. I don't want to spend hours configuring a bunch of BS that I don't even understand. I want to do my work, then go away (preferrably down some dirt road)

Seriously, I consider my knowledge regarding computers about "average" (I know just enough to be really, really dangerous). I have very few requirements, none of these are negotiable, they simply must exist on the next machine. These requirements (in no particular order) are:

Microsoft Office Suite (Excel, Power Point, Word and Project)
Wireless access to the internet and a printer with no external cards
No hardware upgrades to get what I want beyond adding some RAM
Adobe Acrobat
Ability to transfer files (primarily .XLS, .PDF, and .JPEG) to/from a PC desktop (Sony Vaio).
Physically robust (this will spend time in my jeep and on my bike where dust and vibration are constant)This machine will be used for business as well as processing/storing digital images, GPS track data, etc.

Will a Mac do what I need without much pain and suffering on my part?

[Desertdude]

Will a Mac do what I need without much pain and suffering on my part?

yup and I can give yo a demo on it anytime on my MacBookPro or the other two powerbooks laying around home

there is basically nothing to do but work...

Accept for not being able to get iChat to work with Scott on his new iMac( now that is embarrassing) - everything works easy with no BS

I use the office suite - Adobe CS2, Acrobat, Ai, PS, Golive, Indesign

I am in a coffee shop right now on Wifi - it automatically detects Wifi anywhere and connects automatically - transferring and networking to other computers ( PC or mac) easy

I have used Apple powerbooks for the past 8 years - they may look pretty and the do, they are also very tough first 11 months warranty on all hardware is free - 3 year extended through Applecare is also cheap insurance

[goodtimes]

OK, here is the biggest annoyance I had on my old PC laptop. The damn thing was flimsy. Seriously it would bend and warp if you picked it up from one side and not both. Really annoying and I was always afraid of physically breaking the damn thing in half. How are the Mac's? I've considered one of the Panasonic toughbooks (you know, the PC's with the magnesium case...) just because this thing WILL get beat up.

How well are the Mac's sealed? Granted, there will always be a vent for airflow across the processor, but dirt/dust still worries me (with both PC and Mac).

Maybe I should go find a apple store (or maybe I shouldn't...)

[Desertdude]

Maybe I should go find a apple store (or maybe I shouldn't...)

uh oh...

They are not sealed between the lid and the keys so they can breathe a bit

they seem to hold up well day to day - but I would not use mine on the beach or in a sand storm - or in the rain for that matter

I have an older "Pismo" powerbook that is built like a battleship but it is only a G3 and limited ram and storage

I always keep my MacBookPro in a small lift out sleave which has a velcro folded cover - keeps out the elements

[bigreen505]

I'll second all the Dude's comments. I can't say that the new books are flimsy, but they are not built any heavier than necessary. I would say it is a happy medium between the flimsy Ti-books (which could lose battery contact when you picked them up) and the super heavy Pismo G3's, but the old G3's have an elegance and form follows function approach to them that is completely missing in Apple's current line-up.

Honestly if you are at all worried, get the PC. You see a lot of dented powerbooks around and they can take some abuse but they are designed more for business travel than third-world travel, but I think a monitor protector and keyboard protector could go a long way in making them more field worthy.

[DaktariEd]

I have 4 Macs at home: used them all...but only 3 right now.
One is ready to donate to Goodwill.

The 4 year old Titanium PowerBook G4 is my take anywhere laptop. It's been to Africa a couple of times, multiple camping trips, ExPo trips. I use reasonable precautions, still got a couple of dings in the case, but it has never failed in the field. I did have to replace a Superdrive once.

My 17" Aluminum PowerBook G4 is my take to work everyday laptop, and will soon become a field laptop perhaps.

Bottom line is that they are not flimsy...not at all...

[Ursidae69]

The moeny is the thing holding me back from Mac right now. It's about double the cost. Oh, and ESRI doesn't work so well in a Mac, but I might be abee to get around that.

[adventureduo]

Im a PC guy switched to Mac. We are all Mac here at the office and i have a G5 imac and ibook at home... won't ever go back to pc. We just picked up a macmini to run both windows/osx on in our warehouse (UPS is PC only). :mixed-smiley-030:

[77blazerchalet]

Here's an article that sez it all about the "Windows Virus" that has infected every PC since they started making 'em - I like this line especially: "Nothing in the news suggests I need to screw things up by loading a new operating system"
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/business/articles/1202biz-vista1202side.html

Ps. composed this on my ever faithful fruit-flavored Blueberry iMac

[pskhaat]

I didn't even realize that Apple was still selling anyting other than iPods and music? And is Microsoft actually still in business anymore?

Join the revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux)dude. Linux. I started in 1991 after disgust with AIX since 1984 or so, and havn't looked back.

[77blazerchalet]

BTW, God uses a Mac.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1565515,00.html
(From Time magazine, Dec 11, 2006, pg 103)

[Desertdude]

gods last email is funny... he needs to learn how to use Apples Mail filter :shakin:

[ChuckB]

I have a 12" powerbook and a 15" imac. No complaints what-so-ever. The Powerbook is going on 3 years old, and have survived 6 months in Iraq. The iMac I bought used and is basically a web surfing machine but at 800 Mhz it just keeps on truckin'!!

[Kermit]

My girl friend has a Mac and I have a PC...hers' never crashes or has glitches...my next will be a Mac for sure.

I listened to my techy friend and bought a PC...sorry that I did.:mixed-smiley-030:

[edgear]

So after 15+ years of using Windows and the past 7 years being paid to do tech support on only Windows, I am happy to say that I've completely made the switch to Macintosh! In fact I'm so geeked out that I'm making this post from an iPod touch.

[cshontz]

I'm also a recent convert. I've been a computer geek for 25 years, and I got my first Mac last month. There are still things that I'm not used to, but for the most part its been a positive experience.

[Desertdude]

Welcome to the future... :) its here now

Congratulations on your choice ;)

[TeriAnn]

Now, a new option rolls on in with Window Vista coming around the bend. Seems a lot like the Mac OS... but now on PC's. Would that really be something to consider when comparing to an iMac?

Ever since Gates hired a team of software engineers to add a Mac like interface shell onto DOS, Windows has been hailed as almost Mac like. Of course that means as Mac like as they could make it to the Mac OS that was currently for sale when Microsoft froze the feature set for their next version of Windows. Why would anyone prefer an operating system who's chief claim is to have a user interface almost as good as a Mac. I can understand why IT departments prefer Windows. It is hard to justify a large IT department if fewer people have problems and need help with their computers. No IT manager wants to be like the proverbial Maytag repair man.

If you get a Mac the user interface will be at least one to two generations ahead of the latest Windows interface. AND the hardware and software have been designed to work together.

Comparing prices between bottom end Windows machines & Macs is hard because the base Mac tends to come with hardware features only available as higher cost options on the low end windows box. And Mac's components are chosen for reliability and cost, not for just minimal cost alone.

You need to compare a Mac with high end Windows box with the same bells & buzzers to get close to an accurate cost comparison. Even then you will likely find the Mac is a little more expensive. Why? Because somewhere something like a third of the margin gets reinvested into hardware & software R&D. Windows econobox makers don't need to spend money developing system software and their hardware design is mostly a matter of choosing components and fitting them into a box.

Something to think about if planning to purchase a new Mac portable soon is that there is a product line refresh coming up, likely by or before October. If you pick the time right you can either get a new machine with the next generation of HW or get a good deal on the current generation portables.

If you NEED a 2 button mouse get an aftermarket 2 button mouse. Otherwise a clicking with the control button held down gets you access to that other button's functionality.

[Desertdude]

Minor note:

That missing two button mouse thing is in the past - Apples mighty mouse (http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/) ( out for quite some time now) they have 5 buttons and a scroll wheel - blue tooth wireless.




:::

[Michael Slade]

Ever since Gates hired a team of software engineers........clicking with the control button held down gets you access to that other button's functionality.

Spoken like an expert.

Listen to TeriAnn. She speaka'da'troof!

[astn]

I love my Mac. I've been using Apple and Macintosh computers for about 24 years, with a brief break in the middle when they were really really horrible. OS X was a wonderful update to the Macintosh system. It's a MUCH superior operating system to anything that Microsoft has put out, and the only system that has even come near it (in my opinion) was BeOS, which never took off.

I have been one of those "rabid Apple fanboys" for the last six years or so, since 10.2 (Jaguar). In that time I've probably convinced around a hundred people to purchase Macs of various flavors, including a few businesses. There is nothing that can touch an Apple computer, unless you want to be a dedicated gearhead and build and run your own linux machine, in which case, you may end up with a better, though usually "less pretty" end result (in exchange for a lot more work then plunking down your credit card at an Apple Store.)

With all that said, ESPECIALLY with a portable, don't expect miracles, and buy AppleCare. "Apple Computer" is no longer, and "Apple, Inc." now is, and they care about iTunes Music Store and the iPhone. Macs are only a part of their business, and recent experience has shown me that it is not the most important part of their business. It's a situation where they feel they have the "best" product and little competition, so why put resources to an area where you (feel you are) "winning".

An example: MacBook Pro batteries have a tendancy to "swell". I don't know enough about batteries to say why this happens, but it happens to some battery types. With AppleCare (and probably even without, but I don't know) you explain the symptoms and they replace it, almost no questions asked. However, it still makes your laptop a very inconvenient desktop with a power cord that wants to fall off with any pressure, and it would be more ideal to have batteries that "just work" as they have had in the past and many other laptop manufacturers manage to have.

Another example: I haven't used the nifty "keyboard backlight" on my MacBook Pro since I upgraded to Leopard, because sometimes when it activates (i.e. you go from a bright area to a dark area and your keyboard backlight turns on) it will freeze your entire system. This is apparently such a major issue to solve that Apple refuses to acknowledge it's existence, but it happens to all three of the MacBook Pros in my house, and there is numerous other reports on the internet and on their forums. This problem has existed through four point upgrades and several other fixes including a keyboard firmware update. Five years ago, Apple would have admitted the problem, and had a special fix put out as quickly as possible. Now, however, their focus is on other areas and they would rather not acknowledge (not even deny) the problem so they don't need to expend (possibly significant) resources to fix it.

I wouldn't hesitate to purchase another Mac, which is sad from a consumer point of view, because it only reinforces the opinion of Apple that they don't need to do anything now but keep making minor updates to keep this revenue stream going, because the competition simply isn't there. And I think they're right. I just realize and try to caution others when I talk Apples that they aren't as fantabulous as they were just a few years ago, and while they will probably "just work" they have their own issues and quirks just as any other machine.

Austin

[nwoods]

I think one big problem of going to Mac is the actual cost if you are serious computer user. In an apples to apples comparison (I know, bad pun), the PC hardware is almost $1000 cheaper, for identicle or even better specs. That's a lot to chew on, and that's only part of it.

The software costs for Mac tend to be a higher, because there are fewer choices. There are vastly more options for PC. Not better options, but more. If you need to buy software for a specific task, it's going to cost considerably more on the Mac, often double.

Now, lets say you are a power user, and tons of high-end software already. Have you factored in that cost too? Some labels, like Adobe, allow you to send in your old disks and they will send you Mac compatible software very inexpensively (somethign like a $10 processing fee). This is good, but somewhat inconvient, because if you are transitioning due to a flakey, dead, or nearly unusabbly old PC, you are basically out of luck for the few weeks it takes to make the exchange.

I WANT to be on a Mac, but when I had $3,000 to spend on a new setup, I discovered I was about $2,500 short of what it truely would have cost to trasnsition (including software & warrenties). It's REAL hard to spend over $5,000 on a laptop & software that has technically inferior specs to a $1500 -$1800 PC based laptop that could be used immeadiately.

On the flip side, I acknowledge that Apple tightly controls the hardware specs, so most components, while "technically" slower/inferior on paper, actually may run faster/better/smoother with fewer lossy conflicts than similar PC hardware. But still, the cost factor is just real hard to get past for someone that uses it as a home machine or hobby, and not a deductable business expense in a well funded business. Even if you are an Apple fan, which I consider myself to be.