Help Scotty decide on an Expedition Moto...

[Scott Brady]

I have decided to buy an Expedition / Enduro Motorcycle. It will happen in Dec. or Jan.

Why:

1. I want to explore some areas on a bike and start writing some articles on dual-sport travel. A business justification.

2. I need a vehicle to pre-run the Baja 500 efficiently and quickly. I cannot build a pre-runner truck right now.

3. I need a back-up vehicle for the Tacoma, a parts and errand runner because I am selling my Jeep.

Requirements (in this order):

1. Reliability above all else

2. Off-Road performance

3. On-Road safety and handling

4. 200 mile off-road range (with aftermarket equipment if required)

5. Ability to fit bags for 3-5 days of camping. Possibly longer.


It really needs to be rock solid on reliability and good on the trail or it does not satisfy my requirements. I don't care about a bunch of power or the ability to do 80 all day with it (my Tacoma suffers on both accounts).

I want to be able to jump it, wheelie it, climb rutted and rocky trails and be able to pick it up a dozen times in 50 yards if the terrain requires it.

All of my riding has been with 4 stroke dirt bikes with long travel and great reliability. I just want to add an electric start, license plate, GPS, big tank and a few bags.

What:

BMW 650 Dakar- Reliability is sketchy based on my research, great road performance, looks great and can haul two if required.

Honda XR650L- Great reliability and great in the dirt. Big road compromise though. A top contender at this time.

Suzuki DRZ400S- Good reliability and price. Limited freeway use.

Suzuki DR650SE- Good reliability and price. 10.2" of travel

Kawasaki KLR650- Reliability not known, 9" of travel, 6.1 gallon tank! Very high rankings and owner opinion.

All the KTM enduro bikes are too big.

So help a moto newb get the right machine :)

[goodtimes]

As you already know, I am very happy with my BMW. But it is heavy for a dirt bike, and to be honest, it is more like a 75% street, 25% dirt kind of deal. I don't know if I would want to beat one across Baja or not. With a good set of knobbies, some aftermarket springs, heavier oil in the shocks....people seem to be happier off road. But it's heavy....and the newer versions are getting pretty technical. As in, everything is run off of the computer...just like modern cars. Fuel injection, spark control, oxygen sensors....when it works, it works very well. I have seen a few people (on line) have problems with them, but honestly, not many. And I can only think of one or two threads where major problems are occuring.

The biggest problems I have seen....they are heavy, expensive (relative to other bikes of the same size), and hard to find. As you know, I had to wait 4 months to get mine. During that time, I only saw a couple for sale locally (cycle trader), and they wanted a friggin mint for a beat up bike with high miles. Seriously, who is going to pay $7000 for a 4 year old bike with 38,000 miles on it, when a brand new bike, with the improved ignition system and a 3 yr/36K warranty is only $7100?

[Nullifier]

Well Scott I only know enough about dual sports to be dangerous LOL! But for what it's worth I have always had great reliability with my Kawasaki's. Now I know a bit about the KLR in the sense that the part reliability is excellent and inexpensive. As well as it is a simple machine to fix in the field. I know that some folks would say that because it is an old design it is out dated but asometimes that can be agood thing as we all know.

On the Week of river trip I led I had a chance to ride one. One of the paddle club members has one and he brought it to do some riding in the blackwater forest. It had been forever since I was on anything other then a street bike But I found it to be very comfortable. I guess if it were me personally I would probably go for the KLR. I guess because I like Kawi's and it makes great sense economically.

[Ursidae69]

I really liked my KLR, but when I get another bike I plan to get something lighter, even if it means no freeway driving. I had a stretch of trail one time where I dumped the klr like 5 times, it exhausted me because it is so heavy. I really like the DR400, and might get that next. You should test drive them if you can. I guess I need two bikes, one for haluing around and playing locally in the dirt, and a BMW for the longer expo type trips. :sunflower

[Jonathan Hanson]

I, too, have had just enough experience to be dangerous. But if you plan to use this for articles, then BMW is without doubt the iconic choice, the Land Rover Defender of all-terrain motorcycles, the one everyone secretly wishes he owned.

[pskhaat]

Honda. It may not be the Rover of bikes, but it's the Toyota of bikes. Great all around machines with some of the best engine engineers on the planet in that company.

[VikingVince]

2. Off-Road performance

3. On-Road safety and handling

4. 200 mile off-road range (with aftermarket equipment if required)

It really needs to be rock solid on reliability and good on the trail or it does not satisfy my requirements.

I want to be able to jump it, wheelie it, climb rutted and rocky trails and be able to pick it up a dozen times in 50 yards if the terrain requires it.



Your offroad requirements appear to be dominant, especially the "jump it, wheelie it, climb rutted and rocky trails and pick it up a dozen times in 50 yards..." Doesn't THAT statement, in and of itself from a practical standpoint, make anything over 400cc's less desirable? Yes, you could do that with a 650 but that's significantly more weight to be dealing with. I agree with Chuck...not only does it exhaust you picking it up repeatedly but there's also a significantly higher potential injury factor in having a leg/ankle getting crunched under a heavier bike. (when doing the stuff you described)

I want a Suzuki DRZ400S...but, damn, it's hard to find a used one in southern CA...can't go out of state either because of emission differences. Also, one of my criteria is being able to transport it (not offroad) in a hitch carrier behind my truck...set up base camp in a campground and go biking. The 291 pound dry weight of the Suzuki 400 seems to be the most I should go with a rear hitch carrier behind a Tacoma. Is any of that a consideration for you or are you getting a bike trailer? Or are you not planning on taking the truck and the bike at the same time?

[Scott Brady]

Is any of that a consideration for you or are you getting a bike trailer? Or are you not planning on taking the truck and the bike at the same time?

I am planning on having the bike and truck at times (like Baja for pre-running). The Chaser trailer will be the transport.

I have spent some time on a Honda 650 and really like the bike in the dirt. It's capabilities would make it less likely to get dumped in the first place. I am doing some research on smaller bikes too.

Sand and mud is where dumping most often occurs. Tough stuff to lift a bike out of from my experience.

So, you are right about the 400cc or less advantage. The problem is highway and long trip performance.

I am seriously considering riding whatever I get to Alaska next summer.

I need the Toyota Tacoma (with DR suspension) equivalent in a Moto :lurk:

[VikingVince]

I am seriously considering riding whatever I get to Alaska next summer.



It seems to me...and a little knowledge is dangerous I know...that at some point the very concept of "dual sport" becomes flawed, i.e. not big enough for long distance onroad and too big for effective handling offroad. Would you really want to ride a Honda XR650L all the way to Alaska? Wouldn't that be one sore body after a few days?

It seems to me that with the dual sport concept, one has to choose which of the dual activities you MOST want the bike for...and choose your bike accordingly. But as we know with trucks, it's always a tradeoff.

[Scott Brady]

Well maybe there is a KTM option

11.5 and 13" of wheel travel and factory dual sport kit.

http://www.psndealer.com/powersportsdlr/images/NewVehicles/NV23435_1_400.jpg

Wicked in the dirt and 6th gear for the road...

[VikingVince]

"6th gear for the road"...but that bike is lighter weight than the Honda, no?...less desirable for onroad long distance...nice lookin bike tho. looks like it would be good offroad

[Scott Brady]

"6th gear for the road"...but that bike is lighter weight than the Honda, no?...less desirable for onroad long distance...nice lookin bike tho. looks like it would be good offroad

It is a low geared trail bike that is lucky to have a 6th gear for "marginal" road travel.

XR650L keeps notching up higher, though I am swayed by the OD green of the KLR :ylsmoke:

[AZCPP]

Just my two cents; The XR650 has a lot of history in BAJA and Honda's are very reliable! Add a few upgrades (bigger tank, fork stiffener, stabilizer, wider bars) and this is in my opinion your best choice!

I read an article within the last 12 months and they tested the Honda, both Susuki's, and the Kawasaki enduros. They liked the Kawasaki best with the exception of the "spindly front forks" They said the Kaw. got the best MPG and had the largest tank.

[dirtysouth]

Scott, I've had a DRZ400S, DR650, 2 DL650's and now have a R100GS. For what you're talking about, I would go with either the DR or the XR. The DRZ was lighter and I could gear it for the HWY or the Dirt in a matter of 30 minutes, but on the HWY, it was too light and was still buzzy even with the HWY gearing. I liked my DR better than the DRZ, for one it doesn't have the 37" seat height, it didn't feel any heavier, it felt like it had more torque, it is aircooled so no busting any radiators. The suspension is softer than the DRZ but most of these bikes need suspension upgrades if you're over 140lbs anyways. I rode my DR from atlanta to houston and back in 48 hours to go out to look at the R100GS that I have now. I rode interstate the whole way and it was completely stock other than a parabellum windscreen. The weekend after, I did some offroad with the guys from advrider. The XR probably has the better suspension of the 650 singles and is bulletproof. The DR seems to have a better market for farkles including windshields, panniers and such. IMHO, you can't go wrong with any of the jap bikes.

[60seriesguy]

Scott, I've had a great experience with the Honda XR, super reliable even with heavy use, and they hold their value pretty well. Parts availability is hard to beat, too, and they have pretty strong aftermarket support.

[dirtysouth]

Would you really want to ride a Honda XR650L all the way to Alaska? Wouldn't that be one sore body after a few days?




It is easier and cheaper to make a bike more road friendly than it is to make it more offroad friendly. A corbin seat, bigger gas tank, windshield and luggage and you're set. You can easily swap out the front sprocket in a matter of minutes thereby effectively changing your bike from hwy capable to offroad capable. That being said, a buddy of mine did alaska on a sportster and had no problem. He did say when he goes again, it will be on his DR.

[Hltoppr]

Given those requirements...I'd go with my first bike....a Honda XR650L. Add these items:

Clarke 4.0 gallon tank.
Happy trails aluminum panniers and rack
Garmin 276/376C GPS on a MGV Touratech Rally Mount


Out of the box, the 30 hp XRL is a great all-around dual sport. I don't like to fiddle with stock jetting or exhaust too much, and found that with the idle mixture adjustment mine would work great from sea level to 11,000 feet. For long highway trips I'd put a cooler spark plug in. Granted, you're gonna want to play with the seat foam a bit...as the very definition of "monkey butt" will become very apparent after about 50-70 miles in the saddle. But this allows for frequent rest stops and meeting the locals...;)

Great off road, decent on road (I put 4000 miles on mine in 3 months...). Reliablility is top notch, and you can damn near find parts along the road in Baja....You don't have to worry about coolant or doohickeys.

The downside....

Small charging system....you can't really add heated grips, PIAAs, heated vest, etc.....( with the KLR it'll have more juice).

Lightweight for the road....you'll get blown around by semi's and wind....try to stay to the secondary roads.

Two up...fine going around the block to the local coffee shop...bad going out of town. (Two up I'd go with the BMW F650).

HTH..

-H-

[jkam]

I'm with dirtysouth.

The DR 650 with a big tank and some other goodies is what you want.

If you want lighter, I'd get an XR400, add the magic button and a big tank.

For me, staying away from water cooled bikes for expedtion travel is important. You say performance isn't a primary concern, go with an air cooled bike and remember it's not a race, it's getting there that counts.

[Scott Brady]

You say performance isn't a primary concern, go with an air cooled bike and remember it's not a race, it's getting there that counts.

Performance in the dirt is a primary concern, ranked after reliability.

Unfortunately, part of the requirement for this bike is to ride fast, pre-running for the Baja 500.

Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it :)

[AZCPP]

Here you go Scott....http://www.dieselmotorcycles.com/PDF/M1030B1C_Marine_Corps_Commerative.pdf

[AZCPP]

here is the home page of their site.http://www.dieselmotorcycles.com/models.htm

[jkam]

Performance in the dirt is a primary concern, ranked after reliability.

Unfortunately, part of the requirement for this bike is to ride fast, pre-running for the Baja 500.

Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it :)


OK, then go with an XR400. Add the magic button, big tank, better suspension and lighting. Throw on some soft bags for the overnighters and let 'er rip.

Unfortunately, no bike is the perfect solution for your needs, a compromise will happen somewhere. Personally, I tend to go for a little more comfort with my rapidly aging body and gave up the wheelies.

[dirtysouth]

Performance in the dirt is a primary concern, ranked after reliability.

Unfortunately, part of the requirement for this bike is to ride fast, pre-running for the Baja 500.

Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it :)


I held 80mph to houston and back, right at 1700 miles in a weekend on the DR. Reliable as they come and as fast as you want to go.

[Doin_It]

The one major difference, that I see is in the frame. If you are wanting to mount any sort of hard bag/trunk system vs. just "throwing" on a saddle bag, the tail section of a KLR extends farther back then that of the XL or XR. That makes luggage mounting way easier on the KLR. On the XR though you can change up to a IMS 7 gal. tank, or even better for $800 or so you can change out the main tank, seat, and get an under seat tank the for huge total of 9.7 gal. from Acerbis. First made for Honda 6/7 years ago for the Paris/Dakar. But hey, I just keep beating my 'ol '86 600XL to death. That is the 1 bonus here in Canada, bikes last twice as long cause we only get to ride them 6 months a year.

[Desertdude]

:iagree: Honda XR650L- for all the right reasons :drool:

...you can get used to the color :wings:

[Scott Brady]

...you can get used to the color :wings:

You know me far too well amigo :)

I have been looking at replacement plastic and seats to eradicate the red. :gunt:

[calamaridog]

I really want to get a bike when I move to Vegas. My buddy and my brother-in-law are riding several times per month. I will be watching this thread with interest:D

I was checking out the neighbors DRZ400 the other day. He rides it to work almost every day and at least once per weekend it sees dirt.

[coloradocarlisle]

The XR 650 or even aXL 650 is the best bike by far for your trip. I ride a KTM 450 EXC same bike in the picture just a 450 I love KTMs they are SUPER bikes but If I were to ride BAJA I would want a XR 650 R. I have owned 12 XR's including a 2001 XR 650 R and here are my reasons for the xr 650 R

http://denver.craigslist.org/mcy/219190870.html

1) Ultra Reliable
2) Ultra Reliable
3) Ultra Reliable
4) Although the 400 drz suzuki and honda 400 are super bikes they are way underpowered for BAJA. Sure you can gear them up to run 80 mph on the dirt roads and street... Now place 6 inches or power robbing sand around the tires. It will fell like you are dragging a 50 pound cinder block tied to your bike
5) The XR is the only bike that was produced solely for BAJA.
6) Parts are everywhere IF you might need them
7)Dont need to add a lot to be baja capable
8) Lots of inexpensive 650's out there for sale
9) Plenty of power
10) Easy to start compared to other kick start bikes
11) Over built for reliabilty

Parts I would reccomend looking at adding
http://www.motocrossgiant.com/product_p/acerbis04-17.htm

http://www.mxbike.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=41662

http://www.mxbike.com/catalog/Pro+Taper+SE+Handlebar+%28Silver%29+KX+High+Bend

http://www.enduroeng.com/item.asp?ItemID=1&Category=Handguards%20And%20Handlebar%20Components

http://www.crfsonly.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1452

http://www.scottsperformance.com/indexmain.html

Hope this helps

[Scott Brady]

coloradocarlisle, thanks so much for all of the links and insight. It is greatly appreciated. I will be stepping up my research in earnest after SEMA.

[Desertdude]

Can we get a better deal if we buy two ? :peepwall:

[bigreen505]

...you can get used to the color :wings:

I wasn't sure what you were talking about until I followed one of Coloradocarlile's links. Wow, that thing is RED ... and fugly. Cool bike though, wish I knew how to ride.

[Boston Mangler]

Hey Scott

Glad to see you are heading over to the "2 wheel" side! :D

I have recently researched most of the mentioned bikes and ended up with a XR650L for a # of reasons which i will list (later on)

Here is my .02 on the bikes:

BMW 650 Dakar- Reliability is sketchy based on my research, great road performance, looks great and can haul two if required.

******* Correct, i have read that as well. I am on a San Diego dual sporting forum and the guys are mentioning some maintence problems (too frequent). Reliability in remote places was key for me in my decision, if you break down in Mexico for example during a baja race or pre run, chances are, most folks wont have spare 650 Dakar Parts in their box! However, personally, i think the Dakar 650 is the best LOOKING bike of the bunch by a long shot! :D Some guys i ride with ride these and i will be testing one this weekend! I will give ya the skinny when i am done!

Honda XR650L- Great reliability and great in the dirt. Big road compromise though. A top contender at this time.

******* Correct again. The bike is bulletproof! It has been the same design since the early XR600 and hasnt had changed, simply because it hasnt needed to! :D The 650L model features an electric start which is always nice (more reasons listed below).

Suzuki DRZ400S- Good reliability and price. Limited freeway use.

******* VERY limited freeway use! My buddy bought his DRZ400S at the same time i bought my XR650L. The DRZ is a VERY nice bike on the trails, but its only a 400, and it shows once we get on the highway or anything over 60mph. The 650L handles it with ease and the 400 is not too happy to be over 65mph! Kinda like my 80 :D But, The DRZ400S has TONS of aftermarket support and is available with an add on kick starter in case the electric one fails (pretty nice option in remote areas). I am pretty sure the DRZ is the only bike that has both starting options!

Suzuki DR650SE- Good reliability and price. 10.2" of travel

****** VERY nice option! My coworker spent 3 months in OZ on one and the only thing that failed was tires! :ylsmoke: Also, the DR650 has many aftermarket items available for expedition type travel, more then most models!

Kawasaki KLR650- Reliability not known, 9" of travel, 6.1 gallon tank! Very high rankings and owner opinion.

****** Great bikes! My riding partner has one with 9k on it and it runs like new, never given him a problem and is very capable both on and off the road!

All the KTM enduro bikes are too big.

******* and very overpriced for a glorified Honda!

Why i chose my XR650L and its pros and cons:

Reasons i went with the XR650L over the other bikes
-Reliability
-Air Cooled Simplicity (no radiators or coolant to worry about)
-Baja Proven
-Aftermarket Support
-Remote Parts Resources (xr parts are always plentiful down south and even more so during races)
-Price, much more "Bang for the Buck" compared to others
-Factory Warranty! :D
-Got a great deal on a brand new leftover 06
-Most Dirt Oriented D/S currently on the market

PROS
-Power whenever you need it 650cc torque monster motor
-Very nimble for its size and weight (also a con when you are getting blown around on the freeway)
-Heavy Duty suspension easily adjustable for larger riders
-Very Simple Design and easy to work on
-Parts interchangeable with bikes as early as 89 or so
-Most Dirt Oriented D/S currently on the market
-Its a Honda! :D
-And of course, 3rd gear power wheelies!

CONS
-Cramped Cockpit for taller riders from the factory (new bars made a night and day difference)
-Silly amounts of smog equipment on CA models (easily removed)
-Does great on the freeway powerwise, but needs a steering stabilizer over 70mph (i will be adding one soon!)
-Not much aftermarket support for expedition type racks/gear (the KLR650 and the DR650 have the XR650L beat in the category for SURE!)
-Weak subframe for adding heavier luggage and such (several folks have cracked them and fabbed their own)
-Stock seat is HORRENDOUS for longer rides! (the plus side is Corbin makes one!) :D
-Very tall standover height (problem for shorter riders!) fits me fine! :D

Thats all i can think of now.

I am totally digging my bike and now with my new schedule I am able to ride every weekend! Met up with a great group of So Cal dual sporters and we are having a blast.

Scott, i can easily provide you with a XR650L, a DRZ400S, and a KLR650 for test rides if you need an excuse to come to SD!

My bike has already seen some extensive mods and I will be doing a very detailed build up on it and posting it here!

Ride On! http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/images/smilies/ride.gif

[Scott Brady]

Thanks for the detailed reply Kevin :)

I will be buying something right after the Arctic trip. My heart wants the BMW, My brain wants the KLR and my go fast switch wants the 650L....

Who will win out?

Looking forward to watching your 650L build.

[Skillet]

Don't know about the other bikes but I have a 1996 XR600, not the L, the R so I have to kick it.

It has a Baja kit on it and has been jetted out to run good on low quality fuel (Baja).

I have taken the bike to many places and it has tumbled end over end down many a steep mountain with little to no damage other than a cracked light or tweaked handlebar which popped right back into place.

It has been on a 1600 mile round trip through Baja with no support and not so much as a flat tire.

If it dissapeared today, I would not even research another bike, I would buy another Honda.

Kevin's writeup is great.

Hope this helps.

Good luck.

[FourByLand]

Scott,

I would like to see you build the XR650... get black plastics and black rims... Im getting ready for Baja also.

:rockon:

[Boston Mangler]

Scott,

I would like to see you build the XR650... get black plastics and black rims... Im getting ready for Baja also.

:rockon:

Nice Taste!

I will be getting another set of Black Excel "Knobbie" wheels that will have a set of knobs on them for rough dirt use, then i will keep the stock wheels and tires for more "civil" riding! :D

Also, the L model doesnt have much in the form of black plastics, i already looked! :(

[Hltoppr]

C'mon...just how rough a road do you want to go down...get the BMW. If it's too heavy...do more squats at the gym...:p

http://hltoppr.smugmug.com/photos/109067800-M.jpg

http://hltoppr.smugmug.com/photos/109067808-M.jpg

On a big bike...you never know who you'll meet in the middle of nowhere!

http://hltoppr.smugmug.com/photos/109067802-M.jpg

-H-

[goodtimes]

We all know he is lusting after the BMW. I guess I should ride mine up there so he can take a test ride and seal the deal.....;)

[FourByLand]

Scott is smart and he will go with his gut and get the XR650r... just a weird feeling.;)

[goodtimes]

Scott is smart and he will go with his gut and get the XR650r... just a weird feeling.;)

Maybe...but I sure smell a BMW in his future.

[bigreen505]

Maybe...but I sure smell a BMW in his future.

Sure you aren't thinking about an expedition prepped X5 for Stephanie?

[goodtimes]

fuel to the fire....

[goodtimes]

Not a F650, but still a beemer.....

[Kermit]

I just got back from Baja, you really don't need a big 650, remember the bigger, heavier the bike, the quicker it will wear you out. There were guys on Honda CRF 250Fs keeping up with the big boys. In 2003, I rode a Honda CRF 450 from Tecate to San Felipe and back in two days. 500+ miles, a light weight bike is good. With all of the of extra gear, adds weight quick.

Husaberg does make a 'light' 650. I have ridden one, very small bike; sized like a CR 125, BUT, the power of a 650! http://www.husaberg.se/ it is where KTM got their technology. A holding company owns both companies.

KTM 400-525 very good choice (6 speed, 100mph+) and they do make a 640, which in the near future will be totally redone to a 690.

But...for a ultra reliable 'Baja' bike would be the XR 400, not very high tech, but, damn near bullet proof and low maintenance compared to a modern high reving four stroke.

It comes down to where will you be riding the most. Dirt or Pavement....dirt; go light weight, tarmac;...go heavy...Do you really want to ride a 350 pound plus bike through 20 miles of 4 foot deep sand whoops?

You can get 91 octane in Baja

Here is a dirt bike forum I belong to. http://www.arizonatrailtalk.com/main.html Good DS thread in there.

This is the Super Moto version of the new KTM 690, I would assume the DS version with a different routed exhaust and offroad fender/headlight like the 950 Super Enduro would be soon to follow.
http://www.rubbermag.com/news/0610/imgs/061010_ktmb.jpg

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/mike.werner/BlogPics/KTM-950_super_enduro.jpg

[Scott Brady]

Yeah, I just dont think a single bike will work for my needs. I have ridden 150's-650's aggressively off-highway and they all have their place.

I ride narrow single track with a friend on 150's pretty often, and I would NEVER take a 650 through there. Extremely technical, loose and tight.

So, I am probably going to have to buy two bikes. A light, simple Honda for the Baja pre-running and a nice DS for my adventure plans.

[Scott Brady]

Interesting: http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/bikes/bike.jsp?b=g650xchallenge

http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/images/bikes/g650xchallenge/bike_photo_gallery_photos/2.jpg

[Kermit]

So, I am probably going to have to buy two bikes.


Ha Ha...isn't that always the truth!?

I need a quiver of bikes. My list is very long and my pockets are shallow.

[xcmountain80]

Mmmmmmm BMW. Me Gusta!


Aaron

[FourByLand]

It comes down to where will you be riding the most. Dirt or Pavement....dirt; go light weight, tarmac;...go heavy...Do you really want to ride a 350 pound plus bike through 20 miles of 4 foot deep sand whoops?

:iagree:

[Scott Brady]

Until I get my bike, I will do some practicing... :cool:

[Kermit]

This is me half way through day three, mile 300 something, on my 240 pound KTM. I look like Sloth from the Goonies! I couldn't imagine doing some of the trails on something like a GS 1150. There are guys out there who can, not me.:D
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2435624610093498191gFXmXU

[Kermit]

whoops double post

[FourByLand]

Until I get my bike, I will do some practicing... :cool:

You knee dragging SOB!!!

:friday:

[Hltoppr]

I think by now Scott, you've figured out that you really need two bikes....one large dual sport and one dedicated dirt bike (with truck and/or trailer) to really be able to do some single track or high speed desert travel.

As long as you don't have to do much freeway, and stick to the <60mph back roads, a smaller, dirt oriented bike will do fine....just don't say..."hey, I'd like to ride to Tucson and back today" and expect to be comfortable...it'd be more like..."I'd like to take a week and ride the back desert roads to Tucson."

If you think you'd like to make a ride the trip, and go a bit farther away than say, a 100 mile radius, then I'd look seriously at a bigger bike...

I believe there's an old saying...It's not the arrow, it's the indian. I've seen good riders throw around 600+ lb. GSs with no problems....

I personally got really tired of being blown around on even secondary roads, having the bike pinned at 70mph, and my arse burning like fire after 50 miles...living in AZ it seems like any trips involve a 300 mile jaunt to the destination, which is a big factor, and I got into bike travel so I didn't have to take the truck; getting 35-50 mpg rather than 15.

So...find a DR350 to pound out some trails on for $1500, and a nice R1100GS for $4000, and have the best of both worlds.....

-H-

[VikingVince]

-H-...what kind of highway mileage do you get with your R1150 GS?

[goodtimes]

I personally got really tired of being blown around on even secondary roads, having the bike pinned at 70mph, and my arse burning like fire after 50 miles...
-H-

I recently pulled the OE windscreen off my GS, and I don't get blown around much at all---even when passing tractor/trailers. Now, if the wind is howling...forget about it. 400 pounds of BMW isn't going to cut it.

[Scott Brady]

More training yesterday, while spending time with my nephew.

Vrooom Vrooom

[Boston Mangler]

More training yesterday, while spending time with my nephew.

Vrooom Vrooom

Scott, you are not setting a good example for the rest of us doing such stunts without proper protective gear! :D

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/images/smilies/ride.gif

[Hltoppr]

-H-...what kind of highway mileage do you get with your R1150 GS?


I've been getting 35-38 mpg on average, with luggage. The previous owner installed a Techlusion Fuel Injection unit on the bike, which essentially bypasses the O2 sensor (it's unhooked during install) and uses the units own mapping, along with the MAF sensor. The unit essentially adds more fuel to the mixture. However, I found the bike was running really rich all the time, so I took it off this weekend.

I'm expecting to see 38-40+ mpg taking that off....

-H-

[Kermit]

Hltoprr,

How do you like your GS? One would assume you are a BMW nut, and love it.

Kinda like, us KTM guys, it's almost like a cult. :elkgrin:

I may be in the market for one of those big adventure bikes, too. I am very torn between the two brands.

[Scott Brady]

Well, my good bud Brian (goodtimes) took a ride up to Prescott to help sway my opinion. It was a huge help, as it gave me a sense for the size of the bike and overall performance.

What a great machine, easy to ride and very refined. Nothing like the dirt bikes I am used to. It is also a WIDE bike, though it didnt feel top heavy as I expected and was actually very comfortable to manuever. Great torque off-idle and a very linear power band with a pleasant punch at around 5,500 rpm. Excelent brakes too with good stopping power and fine modulation. BMW did a good job of smoothing the engine too and keeping the typical "dirt bike noise" away (loud exhaust, chain noise, tires, trans., etc.).

All of this said, it is not the bike for riding on technical dirt trails like I need for the Baja pre-running. I knew that, but riding the GS today just proved it in my stuborn mind. And not that I couldn't ride that bike the entire 500 course, it would just take too long and not be close enough to the trucks speeds.

So, after the Arctic Trip I need to find a 650 Dakar AND an XR400...

[goodtimes]

So, after the Arctic Trip I need to find a 650 Dakar AND an XR400...

:iagree:

Thanks for lunch amigo....now after the 500 mile ride, I am off to meet Mr. Taco down at O'Malleys for a beer.

[Doin_It]

Here's sort of an interactive page of what they did to there XL's to mod them for thier cross Aus. trip.

http://www.aussie2006.webset.co.nz/bikes.htm

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

Hello all, First off let me say this is a great site.

Do not get the BMW 650! I have one in my garage that my employer provided me with. It performs very poorly off road. And by off road, I mean dirt roads. The suspension is way too soft, there is very little usable travel and it is falling apart after 300 miles of use. I can't imagine what it would perform like with weight on it.

Not on par with the rest of the BMW line up. I should know, I ride a BMW 1150 RT five days a week eight to ten hours a day.


I was very excited to get them in the beginning. However, They have left us wishing we had gotten something else.

I personally just picked up my 07 KTM 525exc. It performs flawlessly. The bike has everything you need in a factory package. It's street legal, electric starter, kick starter, kick stand and an excellant power band.

I'm sure I've offended someone here, but I was given the bike (BMW 650) for free. I'm unbaised and I've used it in the dirt alot. If I were getting a BMW dirtbike it would be the HP2.

Go ride a KTM 525 EXc and you'll be amazed. My .02

[Scott Brady]

Thanks for the honest feedback.

Just last weekend I had the chance to see a 525 and it looked great. True long travel and HD front suspension. Not sure how it would do on the highway or with some gear mounted though.

[goodtimes]

Hello all, First off let me say this is a great site.

Do not get the BMW 650! I have one in my garage that my employer provided me with. It performs very poorly off road. And by off road, I mean dirt roads. The suspension is way too soft, there is very little usable travel and it is falling apart after 300 miles of use. I can't imagine what it would perform like with weight on it.

I think I'm the only one on the board (currently) that has a F650 (besides you....), and you didn't manage to offend me....too much. (buy me a beer and I'll forget about it :elkgrin:)

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and personally, I like to hear both the good and bad. That said, the F650 that *I* have, has performed very well for my intended use. Like many, many, other F650 riders, I see about 95% slab and 5% [non-technical] dirt roads, usually with little weight other than my fat arse and a camelback. For daily commuting, an occasional run down the fire roads, and an occasional multi-week trip over mild to moderate terrain, most F650 owners are as happy as I am.

In fact, I think it is far from a complete POS as you imply. Honestly, if yours is falling apart after 300 miles, either it has seen alot more abuse than you lead on to, or it needs to go back to BMW because they screwed something up. Falling apart at 300 miles is definately not the norm for this bike. I have close to 4500 miles on mine (bought it ~3 months ago), with the only problem (other than rider stupidity) was the + batt cable needed to be tightened (which was a pain in the arse to get to, BTW).

As I think I already mentioned very early in this thread, if someone wants to take it out and jump it off of logs, throw rooster tails every time they get after it, slide it around every corner and bounce them off of rocks, this is DEFINATELY not the bike for them. For the those of us who spend more time on the slab than the dirt, and even when we are on the dirt we are on fairly tame terrain, the F650 does very well.

Oh, the 69mpg isn't bad either.

Welcome to the site 24! :wavey:

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

OK...Falling apart may be a bit overkill, but I do expect the little plastic subfenders not to fall off while traveling down a dirt road. The front fell off (Cracked in half) of mine and the rear fell off of my co-workers. These bikes are not abused nor are they neglected. We get reamed if our service bikes are even dirty.

As I read the purpose of this thread, Scott said he wanted his bike to be able to prerun baja. As you stated, the 650 is a great urban style bike, not a dirtbike. It's great for going down multiple flights of stairs (And even then, you have to inch it over the first couple of steps so as not to bottom out), curbs and bike paths. I am a huge fan of BMW Motorcycles, but the 650 is not the bike for an extended dirt trip.

I promise to buy you a beer the next time I see you.

The 525 runs great at 75 mph on the highway. Honestly, I haven't ran it on the highway at that speed for more than 30 miles at a time. I live close to the moonrocks. With more gear than a backpack and bar mounted GPS your guess would be as good as mine as how it handles, but my guess would be it would handle it.

[goodtimes]

If you guys are losing fenders and 'possum scrapers without them getting up close and personal with a solid object, BMW needs to get the bikes back. That would annoy just about anyone (including me).

And yes, the GS is a bit on the low side compared to the other dual sports, but again, it really is more of street/semi-improved surface kind of bike. The Dakar gives you an extra 2.1" or so, and you can increase the preload on the rear spring if you really want to....but it is still short, and heavy....

So did you drag the trailer through little sluice?

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

Towing the trailer through the little sluice, sounds like trailercide to me. No, the trailer did not and will not go through the little sluice. It did old and big, but I really don't like body damage. I posted pics over on the jeep side.

[calamaridog]

How about some pics of the KTM in this thread too:beer:

[Boston Mangler]

Top one is the 07 model which is street legal, the bottom one is the 05 model which is almost the same bike but not street legal

http://www.psndealer.com/powersportsdlr/images/NewVehicles/NV38732_1_400.jpg

http://dirtrider.com/tests/141_0403_05z+2004_ktm_525_exc_rfs+side_view.jpg

[Scott Brady]

http://dirtrider.com/tests/141_0403_05z+2004_ktm_525_exc_rfs+side_view.jpg

Has anyone fit some paniers to this beast?

Me like :elkgrin:

[Hltoppr]

Dirt Bagz Panniers

http://www.moto-sportpanniers.com/dirtbagz/index.html


I had these on my XRL (the Ranger size)....gotta pack light...but they work great.

-H-

[MountainBiker]

I'm new to this board, but I've been riding offroad and dual-sport for 20 years.

Perhaps the best bike that meets your requirements is a KLR650 (the old one, not the new for '07 model). I rode that thing everywhere, including 600 mile days on the pavement, to 300 mile days in the desert sand (this is tough) to 150 mile days on REAL singletrack 6-12" wide! You will want to get an aftermarket shock and re-valve the fork for better performance though. The KLR has an extensive following for adventure touring, and there are some good aftermarket products and a whole bunch of internet sites to research.

I put 20k miles of abusive riding on my old KLR, and at that point, it did need a valve job since the intake valves were very worn. Worn intake valves have been the end of life failure for all my 4-stroke bikes that I've kept long enough to wear out: '86 KLR650, '98 KLX300, '03 KTM450EXC. My theory is that dirt always makes it past the air filter and deposits on the intake valves, tearing them up.

I also had a '94 Honda XR650L, but I didn't like it enough to put more than about 5000 miles on it. This would be my second choice bike to meet your criteria.

I'm gonna thow out the Bimmer, it isn't in the same class as the other bikes.
I'm also gonna throw out the KTM450/525 (even though this is still my primary bike!) The gas mileage is horrible compared to the other bikes, and the vibration is very high. It also doesn't have much frame support out back to support a heavy load when going through the sand whoops. If I was 20 years old though, I might really try to make the KTM work, since it is the most fun to ride, and will allow you to maintain the highest speed off-road. The suspension is awesome offroad compared to the other bikes, and of course it has the lowest weight by far, but getting it to meet the 200 mile range will be very difficult.

I went back and looked at your list and saw the DRZ400S. My brother put a lot of miles on the DRZ400S, and I'd place it at the top of the list if you spend a lot of time on singletrack or if you plan to be picking the bike up off the ground a lot.

KLR vs. XR-L vs. DRZ400S, on your requirements
1. Reliability above all else: They are all excellent in this regard. Have to give the nod to the XR for the easier valve adjustment (threaded adjusters while the KLR and DRZ require shims) and the lack of radiators to bust when you crash.
2. Off-Road performance: DRZ and XR are about tied for the win, but they are not so far ahead of the KLR as you'd think. Stock suspension of the XR and DRZ are decent enough to leave in place, KLR needs a suspension upgrade, but the shorter travel is enough for all but 12" deep ruts. EDIT: all the bikes will be better off with stiffer springs to handle your 3-5 days of camping gear.
3. On-Road safety and handling
Slow, twisty pavement: KLR and DRZ both far exceed the XR! I used to regularly drag the pegs on the KLR! (hey, I'm an ex-roadracer)
Long stretches of highway: KLR wins by far! XR is much more buzzy, gets worse gas mileage, and has less outright horsepower, and the XR even has a narrower power band. That little KLR fairing actually directs the air enough to help reduce neck strain, and since it is frame mounted, it is easy to install a slightly bigger fairing. Then you'll be ready to use the 300+ mile range of that gas tank! The DRZ is a bit underpowered, but it is less buzzy than the XR. All of them have decent brakes, but the KLR is the most underbraked bike in this bunch.
4. 200 mile off-road range: KLR is ready to go. The worst mileage I ever got on that thing was about 33mpg. I didn't have as much time on the XR, but it always had a worse mileage than the KLR, so you'll be hard pressed to get 200 hard off-road miles out of that thing. Fast graded dirt roads will be no problem, but deep sand and some hill climbs will kill the mileage. The gas mileage of the DRZ should exceed the KLR, so just make sure you can get a large enough aftermarket gas tank.
5. Ability to fit bags for 3-5 days of camping. Possibly longer: This will be difficult for any bike, but the KLR and DRZ650 will do the best, followed by the DRZ4 and then lastly the XR.

[Scott Brady]

Thank you so much for the detailed reply. The KLR keeps sifting to the top of many peoples lists.

Your real world experience with these bikes mean a lot!

[BajaTaco]

I'm new to this board, but I've been riding offroad and dual-sport for 20 years.

:bowdown:

May I inquire as to what your damage report/injury record is? With 20 yrs behind you, I am just curious.

[MountainBiker]

:bowdown:

May I inquire as to what your damage report/injury record is? With 20 yrs behind you, I am just curious.
The "body" damage while on a dirt bike or dual sport bike has been minimal, but damage while roadracing or street riding sportbikes is another matter! Worst thing there was a car taking me out (turned in front of me while I was luckily not speeding) causing me to break a collarbone and get a major concussion when I hit the ground. Had another concussion and broken collarbone on the roadrace track a few years later.

Significant offroad injuries:
-5 weeks in a cast to immobilize a torn calf muscle, several months before it was back to 100%
-4 weeks on crutches while healing from a smashed foot (my boots prevented broken bones), several months before it was back to normal
-a few incidences of twisted knees that made me walk funny (and in pain) for a month or two or three

That is about all I can recall. Certainly there have been the occasional deep bruises and sprains (two sprained fingers healing at the moment), but not a bad record I'd say. The key is riding within your limits. I'd call myself a safe, cautious rider, who goes fast when it is prudent! For those that know what it means, I'm an A rider in the offroad disciplines (Enduros in particular), but a complete novice on the motocross track (I'm not into jumps).

[BajaTaco]

Thanks for the reply. Gives meaning to the saying "you gotta pay to play" :)

[Kermit]

Here is a diesel KLR for you diesel freaks out there...not my cup of tea. But interesting.

http://www.m1030.com/

I think of my riding buddys has a conventional KLR for sale...cheap! Low miles. I can check if you want.

I believe he lives up your way, in Chino Valley..(I think)

EDIT: Sorry it is a KLX400R, still a good DS bike though. $3500.

[goodtimes]

HDT still has not started civilian production of the diesel bikes. Military orders are keeping them busy.

[Boston Mangler]

Excellent Review Mountain Biker!

Your points are spot on!

Only one i disagree with is the Buzziness, i have ridden all 3 on the street and the DRZ is BY FAR the buzziest/most vibrating of the bunch! Then the XR, then the smooth as silk KLR650!

For what its worth, i wish i had looked more closely at the KLR before buying my 650L. We are spending more time on the pavement getting to trails then i thought!

However, if i was buying this bike to Prerun the 500 (which i believe scott is looking for), it would be a no brainer to the XR650L! http://www.yankeetoys.org/mangler/ride.gif!

If he is now talking about his "other, non prerunning" bike, i would go for the KLR650

(sorry i lost track in this thread!)

[Scott Brady]

Kevin,

Things now stand that I want a dual sport with solid dirt skills, then I will either buy or borrow a bike for the pre-running.

There are just no good compromises in this case that will allow 30+ mph average speeds on the Baja course and then cruise comfortably on the road with 50lbs of gear on it.

[Kermit]

There are just no good compromises in this case that will allow 30+ mph average speeds on the Baja course and then cruise comfortably on the road with 50lbs of gear on it.

Yep, you need two bikes...or three...or four...;)

[upcruiser]

I just swung by the Kawasaki dealer yesterday and was checking out the brochure for the new 2008 KLR 650. It is going on sale sometime around March. Not sure exactly what all the mechanical changes are but definately alot of new comsmetics on it. It looks pretty nice with the updates in my oppinion. Unfortunately though I don't know much on the mechanical details though.

[Boston Mangler]

Kevin,

Things now stand that I want a dual sport with solid dirt skills, then I will either buy or borrow a bike for the pre-running.

There are just no good compromises in this case that will allow 30+ mph average speeds on the Baja course and then cruise comfortably on the road with 50lbs of gear on it.

Well, with that be clarified, you have 2 options!

If your as lazy as me and want something easy to find, then the KLR is your bike!!! If you do decide to go this route, Personally, i would wait for the 08 to come out and then get a smoking deal on the 07 model! They are chaning it dramatically and i would stick to the older proven design, but thats me!

OR, if you have a bunch of spare time and energy, try to hunt down my dream bike!

The Honda XRV750 Africa Twin!!!! http://www.yankeetoys.org/mangler/ride.gif

http://images.carzone.ie/images/539873_20061107031152_1.jpg

http://cars.iol.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carid=539873

http://www.wemoto.com/library/bikes/japanese/honda/xvr750-africa-twin-1994/index.php3

http://www.survivalskills.clara.net/xrv750.htm

[calamaridog]

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/23september06_klr650.htm

Improved touring performance and less wheel travel...

[Scott Brady]

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/092306_650_top.jpg

Looks nice, but at the expense of dirty performance. Too bad

[melotaco]

I have done a lot of riding on both the XR650R and the KLR, and the KLR is comfortable, plush, and don't want to hurt anybodys feelings but I find it boring. The XR, well aything but boring especially off road. A lot of my friends ride xr650l and drz400 and you cant go wrong. My vote however is for the xr650r.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m258/bestia19/9360-1.jpg

[Kermit]

Performance and streetablity :D

Didn't a guy race one of these in the 1000?

http://www.motoland.si/pic/katalog/ktm/2006/motorna-kolesa/offroad/950-se-r/950-se-r-640.jpg

EDIT: Sorry it was the Adventure model...http://www.dirtbikemagazine.com/detail.asp?id=422

[Scott Brady]

Thanks for the additional feedback guys.

I really like the KTM, though I do keep stealing glances back at the BMW Dakar.

Research starts in earnest this April. (after the Arctic trip)

[Icewalker]

Scott - go with your instincts. BMW Dakar. I did a slew of research and rode everything before I bought mine. For long trips they are streets ahead - sure they are a heavier dirt bike (ever tried taking a KTM 950 in the dirt) but they have a proven round the world record.

take a look at the striking vikings website :)

Also for additional information - this place is the tops

www.advrider.com

Jeff

[Scott Brady]

Jeff,

Thanks for the feedback. I have been checking out ADVRIDER for several months and absorbing the info.

Speaking of the Viking, I am reading his book right now :)

[Hltoppr]

When you get the Dakar, we'll take a few days and go to Mazatlan and have some cold cervezas with Glen....:ylsmoke:

-H-

[Kermit]

http://www.husaberg.org/modules/gallery/albums/PowerCell/Picture_033.jpg

[Scott Brady]

:smileeek: :bowdown:

Street legal?

[goodtimes]

:smileeek: :bowdown:

Street legal?

With that, who needs streets?!?!?!

[Kermit]

:smileeek: :bowdown:

Street legal?
Disclaimer:I have some links to ADVenture Rider...that forum can be a bit crass...(Scott feel free to delete)

I don't think those HIDs are street legal, but, those 950SEs come from the factory street legal. That bike is in this thread...
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154019

I was thinking of getting an KTM Adventure, but, The Super Enduro might suit my needs better...AND...you can get passenger pegs...so you can scare the crap out of your sweetie!

I met a guy (A.K.A. Ignore Amos) who is into the adventure/ralley bike thing, we went riding the other day on the dirt bikes...here is what happened.

My version...then his story is in a link in my story.

http://www.arizonatrailtalk.com/cgi/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1167455569

[winterhk]

Hey Scott,

Somehow I caught a link over here from ADVrider and thought I'd chime in. I'm in Prescott and have a couple of bikes and experience on more than a few if you ever wanted to get together and chat. I've seen your Taco around town and it always catches my eye, as I used to do some minor expedition-style wheeling in various Land Rovers I built in the past. Now, I just ride bikes. I've just sold a DRZ yesterday, but still have an XRL and am hopefully picking up an XRR this weekend. I'll be down at Ignore Amos's house (the guy with the stick in the temple :D) for the AMRA races. We're going to be racing the Baja .5k too, on a 525. Feel free to PM or email me if you want to ride any of my bikes.

Also, if you check out my website, you can find pictures of trips in my Rovers and on my bikes. I've done Baja, the Great Divide and some other cool longer trips. I've got a set-up I use for camping off the bike that works well. I'd be more than happy to show you what I use.

Brian

[BajaTaco]

Brian, Welcome to ExPo. Glad to see you made it here. Scott and I were just discussing the bikes tonight again, and he and I were agreeing that for us, a bias towards the "dirt" side of the spectrum will ultimately be the choice, as it would be too frustrating to "lack" in this area, even if it requires offering up a considerable compromise in the "street-ability" of the machine. Longer travel, knobbier tire selection, a bit more squirrelly... whatever it takes. Hopefully we'll get to meet up soon

Chris (fellow Prescottonian)

[Boston Mangler]

Maybe this will help

(yes, that is the US/MEX border fence in the background!)

http://www.yankeetoys.org/mangler/IMG_1256_2.jpg

[mike h]

Scott - from what little I know of your riding tastes, I think you will prefer a bigger bike simply for the expedition capabilities. A 650 with a large tank is the only bike that makes sense for LD (long distance) adventuring. They aren't that difficult to pick up when you drop it, they can hold a lot of gear, and they work well on the open road. Just like the venerable 22R motor trying to push an overbuilt 4runner, the midsize on/offs simply cannot handle the weight of LD trips.

I've had (and sold) a Yamaha XT650 and Suzuki DR650. Today I would choose the Kawi or Honda 650. The KLRs enjoy massive aftermarket support and a cult following, both brands offer bulletproof reliability. You can sleep in a broken truck for a few days; a broken bike is a whole different level of vulnerability.

I lust after BMWs and LR Defenders, but at the end of the day the cost of ownership and limited repair facilities in North America conspire to move them towards the bottom of my 'reasonable decision' tree.

You can find plenty of solid used bikes for a season of riding, and often can sell with little to no $$ loss. That lets you try one for a while, and if you love it, maybe it's worth buying a new(er) model. The 650s hold their own on the open road, anything smaller gets blown around too much for my tastes, for all-day riding at 65+ mph. The displacement of the motor contributes little to overall weight, and the HP gains are worth it. Wet weight is always higher, but we need fuel to go deep.

Tires often suck - you'll mire in tire decisions just as bad as we do for trucks.

I've migrated to LD sport touring bikes, riding a Kawi Concours 1000 last year and now a Honda ST1100, both bikes have 7 gallon fuel tanks and swallow ground amazingly fast. It took a while to get used to the weight (these are fat bastards at 700lbs) but they feel almost nimble at speed. A bigger bike is much more comfortable (relative term here) for 500+ mile days.

As you've realized, the right bike for Baja and a trip to Alaska isn't really the same bike... but working backwards, the perfect baja bike would be miserable to Alaska, while the perfect Alaska bike would be pretty fun in baja.

I'm going to leap to the conclusion you own (or have seen) the Long Way Round DVD?

m.

[Scott Brady]

Mike,

Thank you so much for the advice and taking the time to respond. You make several important points in my mind.

I have finally conceded defeat on the whole compromise position (I thought I could build a bike that covers the range of capabilities that my Tacoma does). So, my plan is to buy a used street legal dirt bike like the 650L or 525 KTM and use it to run around Prescott and do the prerunning for Baja. Then sell it and buy a proper expedition bike for my TAT trip. I will just not be happy without a cool "ExPo" style bike for the long run.

And, I might just get crazy and buy both at the same time, but only get a dirt bike for the prerunning. A used 250X would be pretty nice and would be super easy to sell.

[Hltoppr]

....very good idea! However, I think you'll find it very nice to have two bikes...and will just end up keeping 'em both!

:peepwall:


-H-

[SOAZ]

Scott,
I've ridden a 650L (uncles bike) and the XR650/400 both. If you are going to get a different bike for the true long distance stuff anyways I'd make sure the 650L is what your looking for. If you're prerunning baja you could get tired of the sloppy handling of the 650L. The 650L is basically a 1990 xr600 as far as capabilities. It was never updated with the xr650. The xr650 is a whole lot lighter when it went to an aluminum frame in 2000. It handles more like a dirt bike. It will handle the bumps and rough roads of baja a LOT better.
As far as the 525exc. That bike is my future baby. I have only good things to say. The only thing the KTM loses to the XR, is the fact that the XR could be thrown off a cliff and I'm pretty sure it would receive maintanence on the way down. The KTM actually requires some occasional attention.
The XR runs on sand and 80 octane pemex better than anything should...
Oh, I just noticed the 250x comment. Great bike, BUT even if you no super fast racer it will seem like its standing still when you are on a smooth dirt road or paved road where everyone else is able to do 70 and your pinned at 55. (I was the one stuck going 55 and it was frustrating)

[Boston Mangler]

If you're prerunning baja you could get tired of the sloppy handling of the 650L. The 650L is basically a 1990 xr600 as far as capabilities.

Handling and suspension is very easily and drastically improved for less then $1000. Remember Scott Summers WON many many many baja 1000's on the XR600! Remember Scotty B is a big guy, so regardless what bike he buys, he WILL Have to dump some $ into the suspenions to do this: :roost:


It was never updated with the xr650. The xr650 is a whole lot lighter when it went to an aluminum frame in 2000. It handles more like a dirt bike.

Some of that is a good thing! Last thing you want to try to do in Baja after a long day of prerunning is have to KICK start a bike! :D Sorry, couldnt resist! For what its worth, i ride fairly frequently and all of the 650R we ride with seem to have some weird quirks as far as coolant overflowing and very hard to start once at temp. My sloppy bike just needs a push of a button! :D


It will handle the bumps and rough roads of baja a LOT better.

Again, suspension mods can remedy most of the woes and get it close to the R and not break the bank! Fork Braces and the correct springs and valving change the bike so much, you would swear its a differnt machine!



As far as the 525exc. That bike is my future baby. I have only good things to say. The only thing the KTM loses to the XR, is the fact that the XR could be thrown off a cliff and I'm pretty sure it would receive maintanence on the way down. The KTM actually requires some occasional attention.
The XR runs on sand and 80 octane pemex better than anything should...

Cant comment on the 525exc, as i havent ridden one yet, but DAMN are they gorgeous!

[SOAZ]

I would give a LOT for a 525exc to be parked in my garage. I agree with most of what you say, but the one thing that is not easily changed is the geometry. I really don't like it on the L. It seems squirly to me. Even the old xr600's seem more stable. I think its the front tube angle. Its upright so turning on the roads feels good, but it seems to like washing out offroad.
But, thats all personal feel so I can't really knock that. Hell, I used to swear that my KLX300 was the best handling bike, and it was to me since I was so comfortable on that little sucker. I could keep up with anything... as long as there weren't any straight lines. (that thing was a slow pig!!!!) :Wow1:
Oh BTW:
I can't agree more, The "button" is magical!!!!!!!! Anything I buy in the future will have it. My XR is easy as pie to start, BUT when your tired and when it takes two kicks to start, not bad BUT... That still leaves you 50 yards behind your buddy with the button who is already GONE!

[Hltoppr]

Alright Scott....

It's time to put this beast to bed...

Here you go....a 140mph dirtbike...the new KTM 950 Super Enduro.

http://www.950superenduro-r.com/

-H-

[goodtimes]

Alright Scott....

It's time to put this beast to bed...

Here you go....a 140mph dirtbike...the new KTM 950 Super Enduro.

http://www.950superenduro-r.com/

-H-

ehh...that thing sucks.

:elkgrin:

[Kermit]

ehh...that thing sucks.

:elkgrin:

You're just kicking yourself because you got the BMW instead....:P

[goodtimes]

You're just kicking yourself because you got the BMW instead....:P

Actually, I am quite happy with the little GS. Not to say I wouldn't like to have a KTM 950 parked next to it...and a 525...and a K1200R sport &/or a GSXR....and a [blah blah blah] ...

I just need a bigger garage, and a fatter wallet.

[Kermit]

[blah blah blah] ...

I just need a bigger garage, and a fatter wallet.

You and me both....

[winterhk]

Brian, Welcome to ExPo. Glad to see you made it here. Scott and I were just discussing the bikes tonight again, and he and I were agreeing that for us, a bias towards the "dirt" side of the spectrum will ultimately be the choice, as it would be too frustrating to "lack" in this area, even if it requires offering up a considerable compromise in the "street-ability" of the machine. Longer travel, knobbier tire selection, a bit more squirrelly... whatever it takes. Hopefully we'll get to meet up soon

Chris (fellow Prescottonian)

Hey Chris, thanks for the welcome! I've got a busy couple of weeks ahead b/c of the San Felipe (now Ensenada - Santo Tomas) 250, but we should meet up at some point.

Has Scott chosen a bike? I've got some you can ride...

Here's a bunch of pics, since threads are always better with pics. :bike_rider: I hope it's not too many, I don't know how this board feels about saturating threads with pics...

My trusty XRL has gotten me all throughout the Western US and Canada and Mexico without a hiccup. I would absolutely choose this bike (set up correctly) for RTW, TAT, Great Divide, Baja, etc over anything else. But for prerunning a Baja race, I would choose the XRR over anything else. I love the confidence that comes from XR's, but a 525 with an oil cooler is more than capable and certainly fast enough.

525 EXC race bike in Baja (800 miles in three days, campin off the bikes):

http://winterhk.smugmug.com/photos/112239668-M.jpg

http://winterhk.smugmug.com/photos/112239790-M.jpg

XRL in Baja (multiple 800+ mile trips, camping off bikes):

http://winterhk.smugmug.com/photos/112239866-M.jpg

In Canada (6000 miles in 22 days off road, camping off bike):

http://winterhk.smugmug.com/photos/47766692-M-1.jpg

http://winterhk.smugmug.com/photos/47713629-M.jpg

XRR ready to go down to Baja for the SF250:

http://winterhk.smugmug.com/photos/132563534-M.jpg

And the attachment is Ignore Amos' 525 race bike for the Baja 500.

[SOAZ]

The shots of your baja trip look amazing!! Got any more pics. I'm so jealous I think I'm going to ride up to Crown King on my XR just to give myself a little bit of that adventurous feel until I make it to Baja again!!!!! :roost:

[winterhk]

The shots of your baja trip look amazing!! Got any more pics. I'm so jealous I think I'm going to ride up to Crown King on my XR just to give myself a little bit of that adventurous feel until I make it to Baja again!!!!! :roost:

Thanks man. It was seriously fun! Here's a few more...

http://stinez.smugmug.com/photos/111431460-M.jpg

http://winterhk.smugmug.com/photos/112239945-M.jpg

http://winterhk.smugmug.com/photos/112239765-L.jpg

http://winterhk.smugmug.com/photos/111524232-M.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d171/mainesailah/Baja%202006/1.jpg

We ended up having much more than our planned Cameron Steele come through our pits. It was great!

Here's a Ride Report form the Desert Assassins Pit: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182801&highlight=lobster

My pics can be found through My Website > My Smugmug > MC Pics > Baja Pics

[Scott Brady]

Brian,

Awesome pictures, quite an inspiration. I would sure like to see the 525 up close.

[Kermit]

Ignore Amos, some of the other Tucson boys, and I just watched Last Man Standing a few nights ago.

Is that Josh and his five two five in the pictures?

When are you guys 'running the 500?

I might be going for the 1000, we will see what happens. I do have another trip planned for Baja in October...I don't know who I am going with though.

Hopefully I'll have my 2008 300(250?) by then.

[lionsbreath]

KLR 650 the only true choice here. If you factor in cost, after market supportand the fact that the USMC runs a desile version of the buike I have on and ride the piss out of it. And no other bike has the same fuel range.

[lionsbreath]

P.s. Check out KLR650.net
bang for the buck is with the klr I love the bmw but when it came down to it the klr is a mor rounded bike and I can have it expedition ready new bike and all for just the price of the competion and carry more fuel to boot.

[66Landy]

I'm just visiting the 2-wheel section, but truly enjoyed reading this thread as I'm considering commuting to work on a motorcycle and want it to double as a weekend toy as well. My house is down a long, semi-steep non-public dirt road (read ruts, rocks and fallen tree limbs only cleared if I do it myself). I'm thinking dual sport so I can take it on the occassional weekend trip as well. I'm 6'2" and about 185. Pacific North West weather needs to be considered, so lots of light/medium rain, and some heavy, to ride through. From what I've read, it seems like the KLR would be a good bet, followed closely by the BMW. No one has mentioned the V-Strom, why?

[Kermit]

No one has mentioned the V-Strom, why?

Well, I think in the original post he mention he wanted it for pre-running baja. Scott needed a do it all bike, but, when you do that, those type of bikes tend to be bad all over the place, not really good on the street...and kinda crappy in the off road too. A do it all, is ok for cruising around, I would be annoyed quickly with one. For every job there is a right tool and a wrong one.

I would see the V-Strom getting over whelmed, right quick and all of it's plastic bits getting shredded. BUT....they make decent Adventure bikes, as long as the terrian isn't too gnarly. It would be like trying to use a Subaru Outback as race car and a rock crawler at the same time. Those Outbacks are ok in twistie tarmac and ok on graded gravel roads, but if anything gets gnarlier either way it is a poor choice.

For me at least, I would NOT pick the KLR or BMW for preunning Baja. You need a bike with mucho suspension and fairly light weight...in other words something that can take 100 miles of 4-5 foot deep whoops running at 60-70+ mph. Yeah yeah...some say they will just cruise along. But when you get a bunch of guys together, you start racing corner to corner.


I wont name any names,but, I know a guy around here, with German made 650, it gets over whelm in slightly moderate difficult terrian. I would see Baja eating that bike alive. Which of course, those bikes aren't made for such a thing.

Yes, I am a KTM geek, but, this is the weapon you need for Baja..
A KTM 525 with a LC4 motor cramed into it...now that looks like fun! Heck throw some smoothies on there and blast back & forth to work. I know my license wouldn't last long.

http://www.dirtbikemagazine.com/archive/KTM710LC4_013.jpg

[goodtimes]

...But when you get a bunch of guys together, you start racing corner to corner.
And that is where "intended use" goes out the window. There is a fact that is not well known outside of the moto world. Testosterone makes your right wrist rotate much faster than your brain tells it to. :roost:



I wont name any names,but, I know a guy around here, with German made 650, it gets over whelm in slightly moderate difficult terrian. I would see Baja eating that bike alive. Which of course, those bikes aren't made for such a thing.
To keep things in context....it all depends on what you are doing (in my newb-assed opinion ;)). If you are pre-running a race...you are friggin crazy if you take a BMW (Scott, you're listening, right?). If you are with a bunch of guys on KTM's, hondas, etc....good luck keeping up. If you are cruising the back roads, camping, not in a hurry, and are NOT playing "follow the leader"...I think a BMW would survive Baja just fine. But the instant the testosterone takes control of the throttle, or you decide to try to follow that group of KTM's....the BMW becomes the wrong bike.

66Landy...For commuting to/from work, and weekend trips on relatively easy roads/trails...the BMW is fine...and I'm sure the KLR is as well. While commuting, I am getting just shy of 70mpg on my BMW. It is just heavy enough that I don't get blown all over the freeway, yet light enough that I can pick it up without to much trouble if I drop it off road (and yes, I have). But I urge you to be very realistic with yourself before you buy....figure out exactly what you want to do on the bike. Take Kermits post to heart...he is right. The dual sports are definately NOT dirt bikes. If you are racing, blowing down single track, or chasing an adrenaline rush down in Baja...you really should be looking at something besides a dual sport. And never, ever underestimate the power of adrenaline while riding...you just want to go faster and faster...and faster.....

[66Landy]

Goodtimes:
As for the speed thing, been there, done that way too many times - - but on the street when I was a couple decades younger! If I am to be completely honest with myself, what I need is a plain, old, average (BORING) commuter bike so I can get on and off the Ferry without having to wait in line. But what I want, is something that will let me ride a fire road now and then, and go tooling around on very easy off road adventures, no single tracking or baja anything for me! I'm considering the bigger bikes so I don't get blown around in Puget Sound weather.

If I were going to do Baja, I'd make the same decision as everyone here, one bike for adventures, one for Baja! Anyone know where one of the ex-Marine diesel jobs can be bought? :sombrero:

[goodtimes]

. . . what I want, is something that will let me ride a fire road now and then, and go tooling around on very easy off road adventures, no single tracking or baja anything for me!

For that purpose, pretty much any of the dual sport bikes are perfect.

[Kermit]

For what Brian is using his GS650 for, it is absolutely perfect. A V-Strom would be at home too.

If everyone was on similar bikes, everyone would be having a blast.

Give everyone XR 100s to blast around the track...I am sure smiles would follow. ;)

Too bad it cost to fricken much, I would have a quiver of bikes, one for each purpose....the list is a long one. Just keeping two maintained is expensive.

Would love to get a pair of Triumph Bonnevilles for my girlfriend and I to do weekend trips on. Just a basic no frills bike...I'll bet I would have a grin ear to ear.


Goodtimes:
But what I want, is something that will let me ride a fire road now and then, and go tooling around on very easy off road adventures, no single tracking or baja anything for me! I'm considering the bigger bikes so I don't get blown around in Puget Sound weather.


This would be fun....have read/seen the Motorcyle Diaries?

http://www.triumph.co.uk/images/scrambler_2007_green.jpg

[goodtimes]

If everyone was on similar bikes, everyone would be having a blast.

You know, you are probably right. It seems that the performance gap on moto's is even greater than the performace gap on 4x4's.

[Kermit]

When I borrow that KTM 640, we will be a little closer. It will be nice to compare the two.

I haven't seen the bike yet, I am assuming it will look like this.

http://www.ktm-stpoelten.at/gebrauchte/640_adventure_ez-2001.jpg

[Flounder]

I've saddled up on a few of those bikes you listed. I had a '94 Honda XR650L. Not bad. If you get in the dirt, it's a heck of a lot better than the KLR I borrowed for a 15 day trip. That thing is a pure pig off road. The XR650 felt a bit more nimble but was still a handful when things got hairy. A medium sized water bar in the trail on anything over 400cc was scary.

I logged mucho miles on a Bimmer GS650 in Alaska, BC and various other points remote. It would require lots of mods to be a formidable off roader.

If you're going to be quickly moving off road, I'd perhaps look into some of KTM's dually bikes. I've ridden the KTM 950 Adventure and while it made me want to ride to Terra del Fuego, it truly scared to poo out of me. HUGE. I would love to try that 650 Adventure. Very cool.

My alltime favorite isn't available here. When I lived in France I owned a Honda Africa Twin 750. The pig of pigs off road, but it really was fun. If it fell over (which it did often) it was a project to get it upright again.

Depends what you want to do. Explore? Go 650cc. Zipp through the rocks and brush? Go with something 400cc-ish.

[Scott Brady]

Hey Christophe!

Thanks for the post. You are just a wealth of experience my friend.

My moto plans are still completely in the air right now. I am going to borrow/rent an XR250x from a friend here in Prescott for the prerunning. Perfect bike for that.

Unfortunately, major cost overruns on the Arctic trip is cramping my options on the dual-sport, so I am going to regroup and put together a plan, including talking with some of the OEM's.

[Flounder]

Scott,
If you get a chance, stop into Southwest Sounds and Cycles just off the square on Montezuma. Ed Furbush is a mega fan of KTM. I've played on his 950 Adventure. He also owns a Duke and a 400cc something or other. I think he currently has a deposit on the only 650 Adventure slated to arrive in AZ this spring. He's a fun fella and a wealth of KTM info. Great source for bicycle stuff too since you are a rider....who needs to join us on Sundays!!!

Speaking of the VStrom, I just sold a 1000cc V-strom last month. I wouldn't take that thing through a sand box, forget an entire off road section.

One of the popular budget bikes I come across is the Honda XR400. I've got a bud that would easily let you take it for a whirl if it would help your cause.

Ciao

[etbadger]

As usual I am way way late to the party, but my input would be for something on the style of an XR250 or 400.

For the back of our van we went with an XR250 with plate. Reasoning being:
- Its able to do 65-70 on the highway with Amy and I on it as long as its not too steep a climb. (I wouldn't do it for hours though, as thats full on the throttle)
- I can pick it up over and over again off-road. (which would be happening a lot if you are doing a lot of jumping, rutted climbs, etc)
- Simple maintenance (fill tank, change oil, screw adjust valves when needed).
- about 250mile range on a 5gal aftermarket enduro tank.


I do wish it had a magic button for when I do dump it and have to kick to clear out the carb.


An XR400 or similar might be a bit more appropriate for a primary bike. Still perfectly capable offroad, you will pay more weight and fuel consumption though.

I have a friend with an XR400 who has a couple sets of rims with different tires/sprokets so he can use it to commute, race super-moto, and ride trails. No issues I know of and it is used daily all year round, and not gently either.

-e

[Scott Brady]

Erik,

What makes your post so damn cool (other than it being a good post) is that I know just where you are typing it from :) :bowdown:

How's the view?

I need to get an Air Card and do some work from up there too.

[etbadger]

Erik,

What makes your post so damn cool (other than it being a good post) is that I know just where you are typing it from :) :bowdown:

How's the view?

I need to get an Air Card and do some work from up there too.

The view is awesome. Lights silhouetting Thumb Butte out the window right now. The wind is another matter. Gusted to about 50+ mid-day, a few trees down today that I could swear were not there yesterday, and we ended up pulling the top down about 2pm because we were getting tossed back and forth (stuff falling off shelves and such) :yikes:.

Overall an awesome place though. We spent a couple hours yesterday and today hiking around on the trails and road network up here.

-e

[Scott Brady]

There is an 07 KLR650 near me available with a new Corbin seat and two wind screens. 2,000 miles on it and only $3,900.

I am REALLY considering it right now. Even if I learn on it, farkle it and do a build series in Overland Journal on it for a year, then sell it, it will make a great deal.

Am I crazy?

[goodtimes]

Nope. But a '08 would make a better story.

Either way, you should have one.....

[Boston Mangler]

There is an 07 KLR650 near me available with a new Corbin seat and two wind screens. 2,000 miles on it and only $3,900.

Thats a great deal man! Great bike too!

KLR650 is a great all around bike for the $, tons of aftermarket products offered as well!

I put a jet kit and a pipe on an 05 for a buddy of mine and he said it was a new machine after we dialed it in!

Make sure you look into the "Doohicky" thing as preventative maintence before taking it on any long trips.

Here is a link:

http://www.klr650.marknet.us/doohickey.html

[cobblecrazy]

I don't know if I can be of much help, but I'll give it a try. I have had a XR650R, XR400, KLR250, BMW 650 Dakar, BMW 1150 Adventure, and several street bikes. Currently I own a BMW 1200 GS Adventure, and, while I've never been to Tierra del Fuego, I have put some miles on each of these loaded/unloaded off/on road.

If I wanted just an off-road set up, I'd go with a XR400 with a desert tank, Baja Designs dual sport set up, and a small rear tray from www.xrsonly.com. A street capable/off-road capable (if your going small) w/bags I'd seriously look at the 650 Dakar (some good used on www.ibmwr.org in the marketplace) w/some additions from www.touratech-usa.com.

On the other hand I have always been amazed where my GS Adventures have gotten me. A little work at it and it's not hard to test it on the off-road. Take a look at the Long Way Round video if you want to take a look at what these can do.

Lastly, if you go new look at the new BMW G650 Challenge. You can find a good story on it at http://www.touratech.de/new/main.php?aktuellid=180

KLR's have always been a choice of adventurers, but I have heard of some reliability issues. My 250 was okay, but I liked the Honda line better.

Hope it helps with the decision.

[goodtimes]

I dunno about the G650 X Challenge. Feels kind of "dirt bikey" for adventure travel, IMO. Great suspension, great ground clearance, ~75 pounds ligher than the F650's, which are pigs (my f650 is pushing 500 pounds with empty bags). I suppose a good seat would help....but I would be inclined to avoid it for multi-week trips.

I say you give in and get that KLR before someone else does. Even when you aquire a F800GS next year (you know you want one!!!!), you can keep the KLR for other staffers who go on the misc. trips.

[Hltoppr]

If you don't pick up that KLR...would you tell me where it is!?

Seriously...great deal on a great bike...

Get it, ride it for a year, and sell it for $4K


-H-

[Marrakesh Red]

The view is awesome. Lights silhouetting Thumb Butte out the window right now. The wind is another matter. Gusted to about 50+ mid-day, a few trees down today that I could swear were not there yesterday, and we ended up pulling the top down about 2pm because we were getting tossed back and forth (stuff falling off shelves and such) :yikes:.

Overall an awesome place though. We spent a couple hours yesterday and today hiking around on the trails and road network up here.

-e
http://www.bmbikes.co.uk/photos/schemephotos/R100GSPD%20Red-White.jpg

the kind of bike that will never let you down
MR

[goodtimes]

One of those would look good in my garage.

(BTW, I attached a thumnail to your post because the hot-link wasn't working for whatever reason).

[Scott Brady]

Any thoughts on the DR650?

Sorry for the slow progress guys. I am in the middle of adding resources and managing recent opportunities for Expeditions West, which is taking lots of time.

[Boston Mangler]

Any thoughts on the DR650?

Sorry for the slow progress guys. I am in the middle of adding resources and managing recent opportunities for Expeditions West, which is taking lots of time.

Co-Worker of mine circumnavigated OZ with one! With ZERO problems!

Awesome bikes, built like brick $&%# houses!

Not the latest and greatest, but a very nice bike and very reliable!

Also, the lowest seat height of the bike thumpers!

[goodtimes]

Scott, IIRC the DR650's are air cooled. In AZ summer temps, this might be a problem. Or it might not....it will greatly depend on how much summer time riding you do in locations where you are likely to be sitting in traffic.

You don't hear many complaints about them though (other than not having a magic button).

[Boston Mangler]

You don't hear many complaints about them though (other than not having a magic button).

I might be mistaken, but the few i have ridden had them!

Could be wrong though! :D

[Scott Brady]

The one I am considering has the magic button and is air/oil cooled. A 2007 model.

[goodtimes]

I might be mistaken, but the few i have ridden had them!

Could be wrong though! :D
reeeeealy.....I thought they were all lacking the magic button. Not much to complain about then, is there?

[Boston Mangler]

The one I am considering has the magic button and is air/oil cooled. A 2007 model.

Then there ya go! :D

They have a huge amount of aftermarket goodies available for them too!

[SOAZ]

The one I am considering has the magic button and is air/oil cooled. A 2007 model.
Scott,
I wonder if the new dr is actually another collaboration with Kawi? Can someone chime in as to whether the new dr650 is actually a Klr or something??
Either way good bike! Heavy for a trail bike, but lite as can be compared to a beemer!

[Speaker]

The "new" DR is the same as it's been since 1996. Just new plastics. I had a '92 and only got rid of it to get a faster bike. It's a great "expedition" bike though.

Right now I have a Husaberg, but would love to have another bike for long distance.

I don't have much money, so my list would look like:

XR650r
DR-z 400e
XR400
DR650

[HMR]

Any thoughts on the DR650? Scott- This thread (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135295) has everything you could hope to know but will probably take 6 months to read it all.:Wow1:

I came REAL close to buying one this summer and getting a hitch mount to carry it on my Tacoma. The bike is great but it was just too heavy for my particular idea. I'll probably go with a Yamaha XT225 (or the new XT250 (http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelspecs/574/0/specs.aspx)) if I decide to carry a dinghy on the back of my land yacht.

[jkam]

This is the new expedition bike I want.
Yamaha XT660z Tenere.
Unfotunately, currently only in europe.
http://www.yamaha-motor-europe.com/products/motorcycles/adventure/xt660z.jsp
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/199686/images/desktop2008xtz660redwhitebl.jpg

[SOAZ]

Ah! Then I know it well. My uncle raced one in the desert racing vet class for a season and then moved on to lighter faster bikes. As a kid I remember riding it and it seemed like an air craft carrier. Of course I was 13.

The "new" DR is the same as it's been since 1996. Just new plastics. I had a '92 and only got rid of it to get a faster bike. It's a great "expedition" bike though.

Right now I have a Husaberg, but would love to have another bike for long distance.

I don't have much money, so my list would look like:

XR650r
DR-z 400e
XR400
DR650

[winterhk]

Right now I have a Husaberg, but would love to have another bike for long distance.

I don't have much money, so my list would look like:

XR650r


You KNOW you want one...

[vcsnover]

looks like you are mainly dirt oriented... with that said I would go with the xr650... I own 2 bmw's and they are great, but I have spent a pretty penny getting the 650 to where it is fairly trail worthy... reliability and ease of finding dealer support/parts is way in favor of the honda or suzuki. Baja? Honda, Alaska? BMW. Overall for what you say you need? Honda.:)

[Speaker]

You KNOW you want one...

I really do. I should have bought Nate's when I had the chance, or just kept my Lc4 and bought a two stroke for the single track. :smilies27 God damn buyers remorse.

[TxRider]

The top 2 bikes for a Baja prerun/expedition bike would be an XR 650R (owns baja) or a KTM 625 SXC (light version of the rally bike that owns Dakar).

Out of the bikes you listed you want a XR 650L, or the DR650 I would say, probably with a shock/fork upgrade.

My simple breakdown....

XR 650L, rugged old school air cooled DS bike, I'd ride it anywhere. Could use a fork/shock upgrade though.

XR650R lighter, faster, water cooled, better suspension, but has no e-start, and has a weaker aluminum subframe, not meant for luggage and will break offroad if loaded. Just needs a bigger tank for running Baja.

The DR 400 is fine, until you need to run a highway at over 60mph. It's also not really lighter than the 650. Sips gas compared to a 650, a 5gal tank will go a lot farther.

KLR will do it, but it's heavier and will break things, mostly the cheap bolts. Upgrade most of the load bearing bolts to good grade and you'll be ok. Also needs a fork/shock upgrade.

DR 650 is a good bike, I'd ride it anywhere, needs a fork/shock upgrade though.

650 Dakar, too heavy, expensive and you'll tear it up prerunning baja. No way I'd want to even try that bike. Might struggle through it, but the bottom of this list.

The KTM LC4 enduros (NOT the adventure, look at the SXC) are lighter, built stronger and are faster than any of these bikes but maybe the XR 650R(about the same as the DR 400), have e-start, moly steel frame/sub frame to pack a load, good WP suspension and would do about 200 miles with a 5 gallon tank that you can get from the factory. But they don't sell them new in the U.S.A since 2004 and they aren't cheap.

The smaller KTM RFS based bikes are a little over 50 lbs lighter, but I'm not sure of carrying luggage on them, 5 gal tanks are available though.

If ya like, I just rode about 700 miles 90% offroad on my KTM SXC along with two friends, one on a DR650, the other KLR 650 you can read about. Both of em over packed IMO though. :)

http://www.twtex.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18205

[peekay]

Scott, are you looking only at new bikes? Sorry, if you've already answered this, I haven't waded through all 16 pages of this thread. But if you would consider used, a Kawasaki KLX 650 is also an excellent choice. They no longer make them anymore, stopped maybe about 3 years ago? I had a 93 that was supremely reliable. It has a lot more power than the DR and beat both the DR and XR in a head to head back in the day. It's basically a more dirt worthy KLR.

[RHINO]

hey scott, the KLR 650 is not the best of anything but its one hell of a well rounded bike. back when i owned mine most americans didnt know anything about adventure riding and i got alot of "why are you riding that big thing out here". well it served me well, it went to alaska and when i finally retired it i had over 80k on the clock, except for a CDI problem all of those miles were trouble free. i had mucho suspension work and other mods along the way that made it a better bike for what i did,,,,, all that being said, i miss the 640 ADV most.

[Boston Mangler]

Wellll

Have you bought anything yet? :bike_rider:

[Colorado Ron]

Scott,

Next time your in Denver, call me up. Ill let you take the Honda XR 650R for a spin. I promise you that once you ride it, youll know right off its the best for what your wanting.

[Scott Brady]

Wellll

Have you bought anything yet? :bike_rider:

A Land Rover :p

Early in the spring, for sure. I want a full adventure moto, I have convinced myself of that for sure, so a 650 Dakar, 640 Adventure or possibly the new 800GS.

[Kermit]

.... possibly the new 800GS.

Nice bike!

That may be the bike, should be a great inbetween size...it makes about 80 hp...I want a test ride! One of the guys in my club just did the Laughlin International Rally for the local, BMW dealership on their G650X (he won the rally, not bad for his first one)...some of the mechanics from that dealership are joining our club, they offered to use the shop for our meetings...how cool is that!? Get to drool over the beemers.

http://www.arizonatrailtalk.com/cgi/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1195162580

http://www.rallyusa.com/

[Kermit]

I don't know if guys and gals have seen this...

http://unstoppable.bmwmotorcyclesus.com/

[goodtimes]

Nice bike!

That may be the bike, should be a great inbetween size...it makes about 80 hp...I want a test ride! One of the guys in my club just did the Laughlin International Rally for the local, BMW dealership on their G650X (he won the rally, not bad for his first one)...some of the mechanics from that dealership are joining our club, they offered to use the shop for our meetings...how cool is that!? Get to drool over the beemers.

http://www.arizonatrailtalk.com/cgi/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1195162580

http://www.rallyusa.com/

John has a great crew down there...I don't think there is a bad one in the bunch. It looks like his decision to put his marketing money into racing (as opposed to cycle trader ads, etc) looks promising....

[Kermit]

John has a great crew down there...I don't think there is a bad one in the bunch. It looks like his decision to put his marketing money into racing (as opposed to cycle trader ads, etc) looks promising....

I guess he wants to go racing, originally he wanted Tim Hilslamer to race for him. Tim was too busy prerunning Baja.

Todd's name was brought up, and it fell into his lap.

The one thing he kept on saying about the difference between rally racing and what we do (enduros)...is the crowd. Rally racing is very "spot of tea and crumpets" type crowd, and we are beer and borittos.

Had great time, but, alot of waiting, heck, the rally guys don't even have to deal with dust, They wait 'til it settles!

[MuddyMudskipper]

I want a full adventure moto, I have convinced myself of that for sure, so a 650 Dakar, 640 Adventure or possibly the new 800GS.

I personally like the KTM 640 ADV. I have one and it is a great bike that doesn't have the tank-like feel and weight of the Bimmer. However, they are tall and not for the short of inseam or marginally flexible in stock form. You can get lowering links for them if needed.

[Scott Brady]

Ok, fast forward...

This moto acquisition has been brought to the forefront again, as I leave for the Trans-America Trail in six weeks.

So far, in order of "want".

1. BMW Dakar
2. KTM 640
3. KLR 650
4. BMW F650GS

I am 6'1", so tall bikes are no big deal.

I am now cruising the Craigs lists, etc.

[Scott Brady]

Yes, Brian and I will be on the TAT!

I do know John, and need to send him an email :)

[Scott Brady]

Oh man, I am feeling that XChallenge love... I am calling Touratech about the tank right now.

That bike could just be the right compromise for me.

[goodtimes]

I assumed so, he mentioned something about suspension upgrades. ;)

Yes, Iron Horse has been very good to us. Even before the magazine existed, John Cartwright and crew were great to work with. The whole crew is awesome. And I gotta give props to Aaron, the parts guy. He talked Ohlins into custom building one awesome shock for me.

Now if I ever get the forks back from their upgrades...I'll be :bike_rider:

[goodtimes]

Oh man, I am feeling that XChallenge love... I am calling Touratech about the tank right now.

That bike could just be the right compromise for me.

Scott, you'll want the tank and a custom seat. They come with a slightly sculpted 2x4 for a seat. Narrow and out of the way when you are standing up...but not so great when you hit the slab.

Other than that....I think you'd be happy on a X-challenge. Maybe dump the air shock as Kermit mentioned. IIRC, Ohlins has a easy swap (well, as easy as replacing a shock on a BMW can be...). I say do it!!!!

:coffeedrink:

[Hltoppr]

Um...

http://flagstaff.craigslist.org/mcy/694414628.html

In Sedona....if it's still around...

Just buy this thing and go.

-H- :costumed-smiley-007

[Scott Brady]

I am looking at a few 640 options, but I made the mistake of checking out a 2006 KTM950 Adventure today. It immediately felt perfect, ready for a trip to Alaska and back, the TAT or any other adventure duties.

So, am I insane to buy a 950 and try and ride the TAT on it? I don't really think so.
http://images.motorcyclistonline.com/escape/motorcycles/122_0401_05z+KTM_950+Right_Side_View.jpg

I could literally buy this thing tomorrow or Monday.

Oh, and it has 17k miles. Is that excessive for the platform?

[boblynch]

Hard to under value a bike that "feels right". Unless KTM is a sponsor, I'm assuming you'll paint it white. That orange would wear on me fast on a sunny day. Go for it...

[Scott Brady]

http://pyndon.smugmug.com/photos/164708480-O.jpg
Yep, I am feeling it


I think I am going to buy it...

[Desertdude]

Do it its a killer machine :iagree:

[Scott Brady]

Unless KTM is a sponsor, I'm assuming you'll paint it white.

HA!

Good point.

Maybe I should go with a different color scheme for the motos? I like the orange for the moment, but actually prefer the silver on the KTMs. I will most likely leave it orange for the moment.

I think that I am just going to pull the trigger on this thing. I am waiting for a little info from an ExPo member that has a 640ADV.

[Scott Brady]

Ok, there is a beautiful KTM640 adventure available. A little older, but a few less miles. A few more farkles.

Research continues.

I will likely make a decision this week.

I am going to go ride the 950...

[bj70_guy]

Those bikes kick ***. I've only ever done about a 15 minute ride on one, man it was T A L L ! I'm only 5'9" with a 32" inseam and the height was pretty disconcerting. It wasn't an "S" either!
It was a pile of fun once I was underway though, and I'd still like a longer run on one to see if I could get comfortable on it.

It will definitely encourage and reward bad behavior... :bike_rider:

[Scott Brady]

Yes, I grabbed the image off of ADV Rider as a fine example.

So... I rode the 950, and I must say that it is perfect for me. It felt no bigger than the BMW 650 and it was so smooth with the twin, even with gnarly Continentals on it. I drove through some moderate dirt challenges and over curbs, around poles and in some soft dirt. It actually has too much power for my needs, at least on the trail. On the street, the power was juuuuuust right ;)

It needs a lower sprocket gear, probably a 16t, and I could even install a 45t in the rear to bring the whole gearing down by 20%. For the weight of the bike, it needs a slower first, though the AWESOME suspension made up for it, and I felt I could ride it within 15-20% of the 650Ls I have ridden.

Overall, it was instant love. Kind of like the Discover I... Hopefully this 950 will buck the reliability trend like the Disco has.

I put a deposit on the 950, but just got a call to fly to Denver for a meeting, and hope to take a look at a nice 2003 KTM640 Adventure with 13k on it and some nice farkle (and jacket and helmet).

Either way, by Tuesday, I will have a moto...

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

You are not going to regret the KTM. A choice well made indeed.

[TACODOC]

:lurk:

[RHINO]

hey scott i had an 03 640A,, very nice bike, its the good year ya know. alot of folks think they vobe too much for long road trips, true they vibe a bit, but it was no biggie. i really miss the thing and would love to have it back.

[VikingVince]

Hey Scott...did you get the 950 or 640? I googled Trans Am Trail and started reading the hits...looks like it would be lot of fun. I even started thinking about doing it sometime...although not on my KLR 250! (although could do part of the trail)

From the various sites and postings I read, it looks like the vast majority of guys that do the TAT ride 650's and smaller. If you go the KTM 950 route, with accessories, gas, and gear won't you be well over 500 pounds? If you go down, isn't that a lot to pick up if by yourself? Just wondering...are your motorcycle riding skills at the same level as your 4wd driving skills? (which we all know are top of the ladder!) :-) I couldn't take a 950 through tough offroad stuff because my riding abilities don't match the machine capacity/performance...but I think I could manage a 500-650.

GOOD LUCK & HOPE YOU HAVE A GREAT TIME!

[Scott Brady]

I just rode a 640, and I really like this bike too, but do not see it being the right solution for me and my travel goals.

Vince, to answer you question, the KTM Adventures favor trail performance and have long travel suspension, etc.

I am an experienced moto rider, but only with smaller dirt bikes and just a couple short rides on a 650L, so, I am no where near an expert. I do feel very comfortable on a moto on the trail, but this bigger 950 will take some getting used to. I think all of my years on mtn. bikes and driving 4wds also help, but again, I will have much to learn.

The best way I can describe it is that the 950 felt perfect to me when I rode it, and I plan to keep it extremely light on the gear side - backpacker light.

The 950 may not be the perfect TAT moto, but it is the perfect moto for me... Of course, how well the 950 and I do on the TAT will be quickly evident :D

[Desertdude]

The 950 should make your road trip (pavement) to the dirt much more comfortable.

The 990 I had the pleasure of riding felt great as it was fairly narrow.

[Scott Brady]

The 990 I had the pleasure of riding felt great as it was fairly narrow.

Oooooh, get it, get it ;)

Well, of course you can always take mine too, now that it is part of the EW fleet.

[Colorado Ron]

Congrats. Its a good bike. Im partial to the old BMW airheads, but that would be my second choice!

[Hltoppr]

I may have someone who might sell a 950 in Flagstaff.....:coffeedrink:

-H-

[goodtimes]

Oooooh, get it, get it ;)

Well, of course you can always take mine too, now that it is part of the EW fleet.

So, we have Silver and Orange for the ride....to cool!

:victory:

[Hltoppr]

....who will survive unscathed.....:lurk:

(I'd take an extra water pump for the KTM....:roost: )

Can't wait to see it in person!

-H-

[goodtimes]

....who will survive unscathed.....:lurk:

(I'd take an extra water pump for the KTM....:roost: )

Can't wait to see it in person!

-H-


Funny, I was thinking I should take an extra water pump seal kit for the BMW...

[Oni]

Hi Scott

Been a lurker here for awhile, recently registered so I could read more. Owner of an X-Challenge and XR400.

Check out www.advrider.com It is a forum much like this for bike riders. There is a large community of 950/990 riders, thumper riders and everything else.

Search for "Gaspipe" and "Bigdogadventures" and the "TAT". They did an extensive ride report of the TAT. Lots of good information, ride reports, vehicle maint. tips, and local guys to ride with.

Also search for "Riceless950". He is one of those 950 riders that rides his like it's a little 450.


Mark

[Hltoppr]

Funny, I was thinking I should take an extra water pump seal kit for the BMW...


...and a spare oil pressure sender....we had one of those go in Mexico on the F650....a little ingenuity and JB weld solved the problem....

Actually, I think this means you need an 1150 or 1200GS for the trip...just to be fair....

-H-

[RHINO]

so i guess scott decided on the 950?

my prediction is a second bike will be in order after a few rides out on the big twin.

[goodtimes]

so i guess scott decided on the 950?

my prediction is a second bike will be in order after a few rides out on the big twin.

yea, uh....nobody bother to call Scott for a few days...I talked to him a bit ago, he has been out for 3 rides so far....today.:xxrotflma

I think there is enough time for him to sneak in a couple more before the sun goes down.

He sounded an aweful lot like a kid on christmas morning.

:jump:

[Scott Brady]

Yeah, my day has pretty much gone like this:

Video One (http://www.youtube.com/v/3OVSDrNcrao&hl=en)

and this

Video Two (http://www.youtube.com/v/Xpe8-LYabS0&hl=en)

[Flounder]

Scott came by my office for some official banking business. He was on his new KTM. I'm glad he came by for the "official bank business" but I sense he just needed another destination to ride to, even if it was just across town.

Does buying a roll of nickels count as "official bank business?"

Just kidding.


By the way, at about 2:30 this afternoon, he was making it a family affair with his bride on the back. Yes...you can see a smile through a full faced helmet.

That is one beautiful bike, Scott.

[Scott Brady]

Ok... Here is the 950 love-

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/KTM_950_Adventure/KTM_950_2%20(1).jpg

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/KTM_950_Adventure/KTM_950_3.jpg

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/KTM_950_Adventure/KTM_950_4.jpg

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/KTM_950_Adventure/KTM_950.jpg

Yeah, she really is that cute ;)
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/KTM_950_Adventure/KTM_950_2.jpg

[Flounder]

Oh geeze. She looks right at home there, huh? I've seen that look before when my wife sat in my $3500 kayak. It took about a month before we had a second $3500 kayak.

yer in beeeeeg trouble.

[Hltoppr]

Sweet, just sweet!

-H-

[Scott Brady]

Bruno on the EE forum posted this picture... It is always amazing to see WHAT is possible.

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/46769394-L.jpg

[HMR]

Nice bike Scott!
All these 950 pics are making me misty-eyed:
http://wileyp.smugmug.com/photos/51236598_oP7yS-M.jpg

Sometimes I wish I would've kept the big KaTooM.

[Flounder]

Bruno on the EE forum posted this picture... It is always amazing to see WHAT is possible.

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/46769394-L.jpg
I'd wager that fewer than .5% of 950 owners would even think of trying that stunt. Half of that number could pull it off. Scary.

[SOAZ]

Wow. Love that bike!
Road trip!

Can't wait to have a bike again!

[LandCruiserPhil]

I'd wager that fewer than .5% of 950 owners would even think of trying that stunt. Half of that number could pull it off. Scary.

I agree.

Not to say he didn't make it but I don't see the picture of him riding away.:roost:

[Scott Brady]

Yeah, I agree. I would never try that, but it looks seriously cool!

[Desertdude]

Scott - Excellent choice - she's a beauty!

(Steph on the bike goes without saying) :peepwall:




:::

[desertgirl66]

Totally AWESOME!!! Whoo-hoo~~ You will have a blast on that beautiful bike :roost:

[Christian P.]

well Scott, like I said, welcome to the club. I bought a Black 950 a few weeks ago and I have been riding it every single day since. My coworker also got an Orange 950 so that's has been our favorite topic lately.

[Scott Brady]

well Scott, like I said, welcome to the club. I bought a Black 950 a few weeks ago

Hey, how cool is that! Congrats to you too.

Great minds must think alike, huh? :bike_rider:

[bj70_guy]

Congrats on a beautiful ride! I love the orange ones...

When I took my test ride I was lucky enough to do it at the factory, accompanied (babysat would be more like it...) by one of their race team managers and one of their factory racers. They both LOVED the 950 (it was JUST hitting the market at that time) and both grabbed them for the ride. I was absolutely gobsmacked at what those guys could do on those bikes - highway speed wheelies, burnouts, stand up donuts, they would pull over to the shoulder (again, at highway speed) and gun the bike to do some fishtailing. I never felt like such a hack rider - it was awesome!!
Those guys loved their jobs and were really passionate about KTM bikes. Too cool.

Here's a shot of some 950s about to be born:

[MuddyMudskipper]

Excellent choice Scott! I was convinced by bike owning members of my family to hang on to my 640.

[BogusBlake]

Oh geeze. She looks right at home there, huh? I've seen that look before when my wife sat in my $3500 kayak. It took about a month before we had a second $3500 kayak.

yer in beeeeeg trouble.

Yep. One month after Gretchen "tried out" my XR, she had her very own CRF230 with a BD kit. :roost: :roost:

Better start saving!

[Willman]

Ok... Here is the 950 love-

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/KTM_950_Adventure/KTM_950_3.jpg



Scott,

Congrads on the new bike!!

Looks like someone could use a bigger driveway and shop:)....Knowing you...I'm sure it is in the works!!

;)

[Octamog]

Hey, how cool is that! Congrats to you too.

Great minds must think alike, huh? :bike_rider:


Great minds might think alike... but some just work faster! ;)

Here is my first 950 which took me 8000+ miles around Mexico, including Baja and Copper Canyon.

http://octamog.smugmug.com/photos/16018483_xc7Lr-M.jpg

http://octamog.smugmug.com/photos/15723764_Vxd2b-M.jpg

Which was replaced by my second:

http://octamog.smugmug.com/photos/116343124_cnZ9H-M.jpg

which immediately received a suspension/brake/wheel swap!

http://octamog.smugmug.com/photos/134448916_wjRZR-M.jpg

[nickatnite]

Yes, I grabbed the image off of ADV Rider as a fine example.

So... I rode the 950, and I must say that it is perfect for me. It felt no bigger than the BMW 650 and it was so smooth with the twin, even with gnarly Continentals on it. I drove through some moderate dirt challenges and over curbs, around poles and in some soft dirt. It actually has too much power for my needs, at least on the trail. On the street, the power was juuuuuust right ;)

It needs a lower sprocket gear, probably a 16t, and I could even install a 45t in the rear to bring the whole gearing down by 20%. For the weight of the bike, it needs a slower first, though the AWESOME suspension made up for it, and I felt I could ride it within 15-20% of the 650Ls I have ridden.

Overall, it was instant love. Kind of like the Discover I... Hopefully this 950 will buck the reliability trend like the Disco has.

I put a deposit on the 950, but just got a call to fly to Denver for a meeting, and hope to take a look at a nice 2003 KTM640 Adventure with 13k on it and some nice farkle (and jacket and helmet).

Either way, by Tuesday, I will have a moto...


If you get time, you can read more about Pyn's bike HERE (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147440)

It's really amazing from what he brought the bike from and to...

Such as this:

http://pyndon.smugmug.com/photos/77339002-S.jpg