Xj ome

[mc2az]

My first post here with an introduction and seeking help. I used to spend a lot of time on NAXJA until I got tired of the negative comments & conflicting info. When I found EXPO I started to realize that this type of Wheeling is more in line with what I plan on enjoying with my family. I'm looking at several XJ's in the 99-2001 range to buildup with the basics like lift, 30x9, rack so on. Mostly Arizona forest road stuff. My problem is I have done several XJ's with RC lifts but never get the quality or dependability I hope for.
I have been looking at OME systems and really like the reviews but I need help understanding the parts....or lack of full lift kits. I see some sale sites have 1.5" and some have 2". Some just sell a la cart parts and you have to match up everything. Hopefully you can educate me or help me wade through all this. I am looking for 2 inches and medium weight class. No winch or big front bumper. Just the spare on the rack with a HILIFT and me, the wife and and some overnight gear. Any ideas.

[photoman]

I am going to pay it forward here and recommend you contact DPG Offroad for your needs. http://www.dpgoff-road.com/. I think 5 members here recommended them to me and I was very impressed when I called.

I am saving up for the setup I worked out with them for my 98 XJ-
4" Lift- OME Shocks, Springs & Coils
Adjustable bump stops
Disconnects
Upgrade Stabilizer
Slip Yoke Eliminator and custom drive shaft
plus more.....

Every part was picked for the terrain I will be driving and the weight I will eventually add with accessories. My trips are usually 70% paved, 20% forest road, and 10% rough off road.

[ExpoMike]

Yep, I agree with photoman, Dirk at DPG Offroad is a great guy to work with and he can set you up with the right OME stuff. I have kept my build fairly mild (listed below) but I can get to about 90% of where most anyone goes. Hardcore rock crawling is just not my thing so I stay away from that stuff.

Sounds like you are figuring out what YOU want to do and then getting the approprate stuff for that. Something I would highly recommend regardless of lift hight or type of wheeling you will do is a set of rock rails. They will save your bacon more times then not and actually get you thru places (allowing you to slide across rocks if needed) without damaging your rig. Highly recommend AJ's Super Rock Rails.

Good luck and feel free to ask whatever questions you need to. ExPo is a great group of poeple. :D

[winkosmosis]

It's too bad DPG took down the "anti tolerance" stuff from their website. It's the reason I decided to not send them my dollars. Now all that's left is the normal evangelical and creationist links.

I bought my springs from Jeepinoutfitters. The guy's name is Jason, and he's registered as a sponsor on jeepforum http://jeepspace.jeepforum.com/Jason,%20aka:%20Jeepin.com

He explained the springs to me and when I asked, he separated them from the shocks so customers could buy them separately.

Here is my advice with the 2" Old Man Emu leafs... Buy the shortest boomerang shackles you can find for them. Otherwise the shackle is dangerously close to the box. I think mine hits, but not sure. Eventually I will add these, and hopefully the extra 5/8" you are supposed to get isn't enough to cause vibrations http://store.jksmfg.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=XJSHACKLES&Store_Code=JKS01&Category_Code=Leaf_Spring

[XJLI]

OME shocks/springs will suit your needs quite well, though i'd suggest the heavy option if you plan on camping with it, since gear weight can load up pretty fast, and youll get a full 3" of lift out of the heavy kit. that and i'd recommend 31" tires over the 30s.

Dirk is great, calling him would be your best bet on OME parts.

[Root Moose]

I agree. If you are going to bother doing this might as well go with 31" tires.

[winkosmosis]

Here is mine with 2" light duty and 31" tires

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/winkosmosis/Jeep%20XJ/jp_xj_side2.jpg

[mc2az]

Thanks guys, I was worried that I didn't actually communicate my ideas well(happens a lot with my wife). Anyway, thats good info. I really like the clean-green XJ too, pretty much what I stay awake building in my head at night. Any thoughts on Rocky Road Outfitters? I've been looking at a few XJ's in Utah and a trip up there could be in our future and maybe save lift shipping cost.

[FishPOET]

Any thoughts on Rocky Road Outfitters?

The horror stories of folks buying from RRO are plentiful. I steer clear of RRO.

[XJLI]

The horror stories of folks buying from RRO are plentiful. I steer clear of RRO.

big ole x2 there. their site is literally full of lies.

[mc2az]

OK, It looks like DPG's in and RRO's out. I don't have to be beat with that stick more than two or three times to get the message. Seems like we have a team build here so let's keep it going. I have about a month left for all the blueprints then I take the plunge. This is what I have in mind for phase 1
Unmolested/stock 99-2001 XJ, I also subscribe to the Tall/Narrow philosophy, hard to find in the 31x9.5x15 range though. Hope to stay clear of the need for a SYE in this phase due to $$ but want to do the 2"-3" one time and get it right. Not too much into the camping thing in the Arizona heat but want to know I can get "OUT" there and get back. Big tires and flash are many miles behind me. So help me out and your ideas too could be under my early Christmas Tree.

[winkosmosis]

OK, It looks like DPG's in and RRO's out. I don't have to be beat with that stick more than two or three times to get the message. Seems like we have a team build here so let's keep it going. I have about a month left for all the blueprints then I take the plunge. This is what I have in mind for phase 1
Unmolested/stock 99-2001 XJ, I also subscribe to the Tall/Narrow philosophy, hard to find in the 31x9.5x15 range though. Hope to stay clear of the need for a SYE in this phase due to $$ but want to do the 2"-3" one time and get it right. Not too much into the camping thing in the Arizona heat but want to know I can get "OUT" there and get back. Big tires and flash are many miles behind me. So help me out and your ideas too could be under my early Christmas Tree.

I like narrow too, that's why I stayed with stock wheels. I think it makes smaller tires look beefier too.

My BFG ATs are 31x10.5, and I had to put washers in the steering stops to stop rubbing at full lock. The turning circle is noticeably reduced, but isn't that bad. Jeeps start out with a small radius.


List of OME springs http://jeepinoutfitters.com/scripts/prodList.asp?manufacturer=56

What I have (with stock shocks)
Light load coils http://jeepinoutfitters.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=1187
Light load leafs http://jeepinoutfitters.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=1183
Bushings for the leafs http://www.jeepinoutfitters.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idProduct=691

Here is what I want to add http://www.jeepinoutfitters.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=89


And here is the complete Old Man Emu 2" kit http://www.jeepinoutfitters.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=645
You also need the bushings to go with that kit http://www.jeepinoutfitters.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idProduct=691

People recommend replacing the old U bolts also, but Jeepin's supplier sent out the wrong size U bolts to me, so I kept the old ones.

[Root Moose]

In 31" you are stuck with 31x10.5 AFAIK.

If you move to metric sizing you could go to a 245/75-16. That is roughly a 30.5 x 10.1 x 16.

Keep an eye out for someone upgrading a stock TJ Rubicon and selling his tires and wheels. These are 245/75-16 and will bolt up to a XJ (5 on 4.5" bolt pattern). IIRC they are a 16x8" wheel so if you wanted to go to a larger tire in the future (say 265/75-16, 285/75-16 or 255/85-16) it would not be a problem with those wheels unless you decided to go to a much larger/radical size that required less backspacing.

HTH

[mc2az]

This is some great info. I was really hoping to do this right the first time. Maybe learn from my younger XJ & CJ3B (wish I still had the 3b) attempts and your experiences. Don't care what others see when I go by, "spend $$$ to impress thousands I don't even know". Maybe even in a little comfort if the right XJ comes along.

You have me leanin in the OME 2" HVY w/31x10 BFG AT's. Any SYE opinions.

Also really like the Baja Rack http://www.bajarack.com/themule.html for the spare and HILIFT. I know...think CG, but trust me I want to see the "forest & mountains" not the rock I'm crawlin over. Besides I can't put enough hand holds in an XJ w/o a cage for wife.

[winkosmosis]

I dunno about you, but I never want to have to pull a spare off the roof, much less put one up

About the SYE, usually people don't get them for 2" lift. At some speeds I get a slight vibration, but I have no way of knowing if it's the driveline or something else.

[mc2az]

Better throw this in before its to late. DD and commute 50mi RT too. Does that change things much?

[John90XJ]

DO the SYE and add it to your build budget. You will need it sooner or later as your needs change and it can't hurt to have it. It also simplifies your life if you need to pull a rear driveshaft due to a failure and not having to worry about ATF coming out of your t-case.

Finally, many of the late model XJ's were more temperamental at lifts as short as 2 inches with rear driveshaft vibes. Not knowing the value of your time, the amount of effort that will go into tracking down vibes at various speeds, trying shims and t-case drops, and ultimately doing the SYE anyway makes doing it now cost effective.

Also, the techs at ARB in Renton WA are great people and would be happy to help you with questions about OME lifts. www.arbusa.com

[John90XJ]

Just re-read your use and build goals and have to agree with other posters that the roof mounted spare is not a great idea.

Unless you plan to sleep in the rig, think seriously about leaving the tire in the stock location. A 31" tire/wheel will fit. If not, run with the rear seat down or removed. Finally, mount the tire to the floor itself and build a flat floor above it for storage.

If something needs to go on the roof, it should be light duty stuff like tents, Therm-a-rests, folding chairs, etc.

Heavy stuff and things that suffer in weather, should be inside. I know you're in AZ but keeping your Hi-Lift clean and dry is a surefire way to make sure it works when you need it.

My rig weighs in at 4560 pounds and nothing is stowed above the window line and it works really well. Weight balance is about 53/47 and it handles nicely.

Finally, the XJ already suffers from lackluster fuel economy. Add the roof rack and it has, in my prior use, about an 8-10% negative effect.

[mc2az]

Crap! I knew it would happen. Stop reading all the rock crawlin stuff over at NAXJA and finally post my ideas on EXPO and you guy's would bring me back to reality. JOHN90XJ really got me thinking about what do I "want" & what do I "need".
Can I still go over there and look at the pictures though? Really, I didn't think when I first posted today that I would get such a great response, and what's really cool is you are all leading me pretty much in the same direction. It's funny, now my build "TONIGHT" will be much more informed and vastly different than past "builds".
Thanks Guy's. I hope you'll let me hang out here awhile and maybe re-light this thread in a month or so.

[winkosmosis]

Don't forget skid plates

[DanNJeep]

Don't forget Rubicon Express and Rusty's. I have experience with both and can say they both served me well.

I concur with those that recommend 31 x 10.5. They are a good balance. I've run the Con, Fordyce, Deer Valley, and everything else with 31's. It takes work but can be done. I ran 31's from 1991 to 2009. I've recently stepped up however to 33 x 12.5 KM2's. You know why? Because a LOT of the organized runs these days require 33's or bigger. Can you imagine rating one's ability based on tire size?

As far as the spare tire, why are you thinking inside or roof? A tire carrier is the only way to go. Even a used stock unit is a better idea - http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pts/1231751641.html.

Where are you located?

[mc2az]

I transferred to the Phoenix area late 08 from FL. I just kinda wanted to gain some room inside for travel gear & tools (plus my dog jumps from back to front a lot when not loaded). I really like the bumper/tire mount option but $$. Maybe in my future though, your right, not gettin any younger and looking "UP" at that thing may be intimidating not too far off.

As for the 33" clubs.....Man I spent too many years in the Idaho wilderness to know about the sins of solo travel, but I don't want to see if my jeep can do what "his" can or if I can follow "that" vehicle through a wash with elephant sized boulders. Don't get me wrong guy's I was there and had a blast when I was doing it. I still watch all the vidoes and build shows and dream.
Now I want to get "OUT" there and enjoy what Arizona has to offer. Not carry a box for my wife to "climb" in the jeep & spend all week fixing what I broke last weekend. That's what I like about EXPO. I want to do more short weekend Expeditions. I wish I could find a club with this philosphy and not turn it into a competition.

[ExpoMike]

OK, It looks like DPG's in and RRO's out. I don't have to be beat with that stick more than two or three times to get the message. Seems like we have a team build here so let's keep it going. I have about a month left for all the blueprints then I take the plunge. This is what I have in mind for phase 1
Unmolested/stock 99-2001 XJ, I also subscribe to the Tall/Narrow philosophy, hard to find in the 31x9.5x15 range though. Hope to stay clear of the need for a SYE in this phase due to $$ but want to do the 2"-3" one time and get it right. Not too much into the camping thing in the Arizona heat but want to know I can get "OUT" there and get back. Big tires and flash are many miles behind me. So help me out and your ideas too could be under my early Christmas Tree.

I agree 100% with RRO. Stay away from them.

As for DPG, I really don't understand why you are staying away from them? So one person doesn't agree with Dirk's beliefs so his business must be bad. What? When it comes to some straight shooting info about OME and XJ's in general, DPG is a great resource. He has a lot of good info on his site. If you're not interested in Christan Life, don't click on that page. There are a bunch of other pages with info.

I have also bought from Jeepin Outfitters and my experience was less then stellar. First order didn't get places, after a few emails, got things sorted out and reordered but it did delay my build waiting on parts.

As for Rubicon Express, they make great products and I would have likely gone with them but I wanted a 3" lift and many of their advertised lifts come out much higher the shown. Like their 3" lift commonly comes out at 4-4.5" and I did not want to go that high.

Good luck.

[John90XJ]

As far as the spare tire, why are you thinking inside or roof? A tire carrier is the only way to go. Even a used stock unit is a better idea - http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pts/1231751641.html.



While it may work for Dan, hanging that extra weight 3' south of the rear axle can have some negative effects on handling, as well as being in the way whenever the hatch is opened and finally blocking vision.

For the number of times you will need a spare tire, bury that thing. Keep your life simple and not monkey with it every time you get in the back of your rig.

[Root Moose]

I've dealt with Dirk a number of times over they years. Bought some small bits last month even. He's great to work with, conscientious, honest. I couldn't care about his religious views and they do not align with mine at all. That doesn't mean I won't do business with him.

I've dealt with Jeepin Outfitters a number of times. Top notch. I've even had Jennifer take an order for me while driving on some freeway somewhere in Texas. Made for a funny call (she's a hoot).

[mc2az]

XJ Mike, I'm with you, don't click if you don't want to see it.
I also like your setup, Hybrid to suit your needs. After some more research with the "Team" idea's in mind. I can't find anyone but OME who sells a complete 2" rear leaf pack. I have not had good luck with AAL's & the reviews are not all that positive from others either. I'm lookin at 2" OME rear & 2" coils from somewhere and the best shocks my remainder funds can afford. Looks like it's not as critical "where" you get it, as it is you "get it right".

[Root Moose]

Couple of things to think about...

You don't necessarily have to run large tires to make use of some of the higher end suspension systems. For long range driving use you are looking for ride quality. In my opinion there are three ways to get good ride:

1.) minimal lift and cutting sheet metal to make whatever tire size you need/want fit. I really like the aftermarket fiberglass fenders that are out there nowadays. If I had my time over...

2.) drop brackets

3.) long arms

I'm a fan of 31" to 33" tires for our usage. I run the metric equivalent of a 32" tire with a TNT long arm lift. ~4.5" of lift. I'm keeping the Jeep low and practical for every day use. I just recently got it sitting on it's springs and am actaully a little concerned that it is a little tall. I'm using RE springs and they have a reputation for being taller than advertised. I hope to lose ~1" or more as the suspension settles.

35" and larger tires need a lot more work on the Jeep to run them "properly". Things like steering geometry and braking systems need to be addressed IMO.

As far as 33" tire clubs are concerned, I'd hope that they are sensible about that kind of rule. If you are on 31s and locked at both ends and lots of armour I don't see what the big deal is - unless you are doing some crazy trail to destroy your rig (JV?).

Stick the tire inside for now. It'll fit in the stock location. IIRC anything up to a 32" with fit and small 33" tires (i.e. BFG) should fit as well. When budget allows stick a rear carrier on.

$0.02

[mc2az]

OK I'm going to really show my stupidty here and ask anyway...what does IIRC stand for?
Another thing I like about XJ Mike's setup is it appears to be something that could be achieved over time and through research of one's "Needs", start out with the basics and build from there.
I used to do some Dual Sport Motorcycle riding and learned about trade offs. No one bike or set up was good for everything. With that in mind I strongly subscribe to the "MODULAR" philosphy in my life. Here some thoughts I've had.
Quality 2" & 31's for DD duties and forest road expeditions.
Rack "ON" for weekends- "OFF" for DD (I'm not that old yet, I can get help to get it back on) this also means KC's on the front bumper.
"Receiver" winch. Mounted(front or back) when needed- outta sight when not.
I want to thank you all for your opinions and ideas, this is great!

[Root Moose]

IIRC := "if I recall correctly"

;)


Big 10-4 to doing things incrementally.

[Root Moose]

Oh, another thing...

About NAXJA...

There's a huge amount of data over there - try to get used to using the search. It can save you a lot of time and money. It's a fab resource.

Don't get too annoyed/discouraged/put-off with the stuff over there that does not apply.

Signal to noise ratio has gone down a lot the last few years but the information is there if you persevere.

[mc2az]

I feel smarter already!
Furter thoughts...I work for the feds in an office now, but I've done alot of Construction over the years and think of a jeep like my tool belts. I don't give a hoot what the other guys on the job site think I look like, but every pound I carry on my hips and shoulders must be needed to get the job done. I'm not carrying a drywall hatchet and a 32oz Vaughn framing hammer at the same time. So like my belts which are modular and adaptable to the job. I hope to build my jeep with the 24-7 abilities of a Shop Smith table saw.
Does that change things up too much?

[mc2az]

I almost forgot, Since all you guy's came over to my "shop" these past few days to help me out....

To all you Dad's, Great Job...Happy Father's Day!
To our past, present & future service Men & Women.....Thank You!
As for me & mine....we support all our Troops!

[winkosmosis]

Do you work for the Dept of the Interior, or Forest service, or something like that? I know there's a lot of public land out there in AZ.


The 31" tire fits, but it pushes the seatback forward a little, so it's too vertical to use comfortably. If it's just you, the wife, and the dog, no problem. Also, you have to remove the little metal shelf that supports the donut spare

[mc2az]

Veterans Administration.....& your right Lots of cool places to explore here. We plan on spending the week leading into labor day on a shake down cruise with the new Jeep we decide on up in N. Arizona. Thinking White Mtn's and Sedona area. So I have about 2 more months to find the jeep I like, plan phase 1, purchase & install parts. On finding the right Jeep....
unmolested 98-2001 model, as mech sound as possible, cruise control, AZ?...Good AC a must, Under $5K....is it out there? I live on Craigslist and Autotrader. Mid July $$ available. Hurts when you see that right one but you can't take the plunge yet.

[winkosmosis]

I got my 1999 for $3500. The asking price was $4500, but the guy was leaving the country the next day for Gabon so he let me have it for what he would have sold it to Carmax for.

They aren't in high demand in Texas, because we have virtually no public land and therefore no trails, but I bet they are in the West where offroading is popular. So if you want to find one for cheap, you might want to expand your search to the East

[cnskate]

31's will put you a little closer to needing to regear than 30's, a dilima I'm having. Depends on where you drive, driving style, weight etc. whether you will feel the need to fork out $1500 or so for 4.10 gears.

I have the stock spare tire carrier that mounts to the bumper and I love it. Cost $50 at a bone yard.

I love the OME coils, the springs..... are cushy and flexi but after loading up the roof tent and supplies for a couple of weeks my 3" HD leafs went to 0" leafs quickly. Some say it's the switch to Malaysian steel. I added the OME AAL and it works pretty well now when it's loaded.

Quick disconnects do a lot to increase off-road ability, and help smooth out long bumpy roads.

DPG might be a bit of a holy-roller, but most people in Kansas are, and he won't prosyletize you on the phone, so I would do business with him again. The ARB techs are nice and knowledgeable, but they will charge you extra if you buy straight from them.

[ExpoMike]

Thanks for the comments. I had gotten our Jeep right after my divorce and was on a single income until Lisa and I got married a year and a half later. Because money was really tight, I pieced my lift together over the course of a year. I did a ton of research on what worked and what didn't. I knew exactly what my goals were, since I had a buddy that had his XJ setup about how I wanted. Riding around with him, he went places I never thought I would ever go.

With this approach, I was able to wait for deals on Ebay, Craigslist and through friends. This also did not mean I did not go out wheeling until after the lift. Nope, I drove trails that were compatible with a stock rig. Boy did I surprise a lot of people. Careful driving and picking the right lines was more important then total lift.

Since the lift, I have gone to places I would not have tired before and it made some places easier, though a stock XJ would have made it with a little work. A big thing that helped while I was stock was disconnecting the stock front swaybar while offroading. It was amazing the amount of flex even bone stock, without the front swaybar limiting travel. I just took a wrench and removed the top nut and swung the links forward, out of the way. When I was done for the day, I just hooked them back up for the trip home. Worked very well.

Here's the first trip we took with our XJ, bone stock but with the front swaybar disconnected, great flex.
http://gallery.lisaandmike.org/albums/xjstuff/PICT1227.jpg

Here's a pic with the ~3" lift on 245/75-16 tires.
http://gallery.lisaandmike.org/albums/superstition308/PICT3880.jpg

During the Overland Journal trailer testing, mega flex. I do have extended bump stops which keeps the tires from tearing anything up when flexed upwards, a definet must.
http://gallery.lisaandmike.org/albums/trailertest/Prescott_trailer_testing_210.jpg

Just plan things out, don't rush and do things right the first time so you are not redoing thing over again.

[troy]

I currently have the OME spings front and rear.

One thing to thing about, and was stated earlier, 31's put you on the edge of needing to re-gear. I'm running a 255-75/16 (approx 31") and a re-gear would be nice. When I ran 245/70/16 (approx. 30"), it was noticeably more fun to drive and got 1-2 mpg better. However, It is not bad enough for me to pony up the money to do it.

With just the OME lift and a 31" tire it will rub. Not real bad but enough, that it can hit in everday situations. 30x9.5 in a might be a better fit. It will also fit behind the rear seat better, and you will have full turning radius with stock wheels.

Even with only 2", I had slight vibes so I shimmed the t-case skid. I agree SYE is a much better option, but I was on a budget. I used grade 8 washers and replaced with longer bolts. It took about 3/8" of washers. There is a write-up somewhere on the web, but it is really self-explainitory.

I would love a tire carrier, but I think my wife would hate having to open it each time we need to open the tailgate. I use the heck out of my XJ and a tire carrier would get the way for me. I change my mind on this weekly, but food for though. If I did buy one, it would be www.detourusa.com tailbone system.

I have over 100K on my OME set-up and have no regrets or need to go bigger. Good luck with the build.

Troy

[Root Moose]

Just to throw another budget idea out there...

If you want to re-gear to 4.10:1 you can always get some junk yard axles off a 4 cylinder XJ. They are rarer than hen's teeth up here but I understand there are a number around in the U.S.

The normal caveats of watch what you are buying when buying a JY axle apply though.

[ExpoMike]

Yep, I did 4.10's with the lift, actually replace the whole rear end with a 8.25 and regeared the front.

Don't forget, you can look at TJ/LJ for the front axle, even certain year ZJ's. All of these front suspensions are the same and will swap in. The rear end is specific due to the leaf spring mounts.

[Root Moose]

Don't forget, you can look at YJ/LJ for the front axle, even certain year ZJ's. All of these front suspensions are the same and will swap in. The rear end is specific due to the leaf spring mounts.

Well, yes and no, to be precise...

YJ is a leaf spring axle so not bolt on. I think you meant TJ above (typo).

TJ is a low pinion axle so weaker than a high pinion XJ axle. Note that mid 2000 ChryCo changed to low pinion on the XJ.

ZJ is low pinion as well.

WJ is low pinion, slightly different control arm mount locations, and too wide.

All the Quadra-Drive based axles will bolt up though.

Stick with high pinion XJ axles to keep your life simple.

[ExpoMike]

Well, yes and no, to be precise...

YJ is a leaf spring axle so not bolt on. I think you meant TJ above (typo).

TJ is a low pinion axle so weaker than a high pinion XJ axle. Note that mid 2000 ChryCo changed to low pinion on the XJ.

ZJ is low pinion as well.

WJ is low pinion, slightly different control arm mount locations, and too wide.

All the Quadra-Drive based axles will bolt up though.

Stick with high pinion XJ axles to keep your life simple.

Fixed the typo. TJ was what I was thinking. Thanks!

As for the low pinion, yes, 2000-2001 had them. This is what I have and on a mild lift with 31" tires, you will never have a problem. Higher lift and/or bigger tires, then the high pinion is the choice, if you stick with a D30. Don't count out the low pinions if you could get a good price and having the right ratio, at least not with the plans at hand.

[Root Moose]

I'm a fan of the high pinion axles for more than just strength.

It effectively gets your shaft up higher and closer to the floor of the Jeep. It also helps to reduce driveline angles when lifting (compared to low pinion). Additionally, if you run a full-time case it keeps the amount of vibration lower when running at highway speeds becuase of the reduced angles.

My Jeep is a 2001. When I re-geared my front axle I bought a JY axle for $100 and worked with that on the bench while driving the Jeep on the low pinion axle in the meantime.

If you planning on going much larger than 33" tires or are in "rock country" I figure the high pinion is worth pursuing. I put one on my Jeep just because I'm like that (overbuild everything I touch). ;)

Low pinion would be perfectly fine for most people but if you are going to swap in a JY axle anyway why not add the "better" axle at the same time?

$0.02

[mc2az]

Wow! been at work all day and come home to find you guys still hangin out in my "shop".
Thanks guys, this has been a wealth of info and your right Mike I still have a LOT of research to do. I have developed some general ideas though, as stated before- Simple but quality. I keep finding myself leanin on the 2" OME post. 30's seem to fit my kind of EXPO style too.
Today was a hard one, coworker told me about a neighbor's 96 no kidding "old Lady" driven- never off road one owner for sale....... I said "WHERE" call right now!.... It sold yesterday for $2800. Oh well, wasn't meant to be, mines out there. I saw a kick but red XJ with about 6" and looked like 34's super clean with just the lift visible, on the freeway 3 lanes over. Man no matter how hard I tried I could not get over to him in drive home traffic. It was cool! But that's not my style anymore. Thanks for keeping me grounded.

[ExpoMike]

I know what you mean, I have had deals pass that I just missed. Oh well, like you said, it wasn't meant to be. When it's right, everything will fall into place.

Hey, if you update your profile and list where you live at, maybe someone on ExPo can pass on a good deal if they find one. Just a thought.

Good luck and hang in there. I know it took me a couple months to find the right one.

[photoman]

Oh man I know that feeling of deals that passed. I was the 2nd caller on a very clean stock FJ80. First caller bought it the same day.

Just take your time when looking. I looked at probably 15 vehicles before getting my 98 XJ. Drove to Tucson twice and came back with all my money. Looked at lifted ones that were a mess and ones that were stock and still a mess.



This thread has been a good read for me as well. Learning some stuff. :ylsmoke:

[mc2az]

Now a new twist....
Sons 93 XJ 2wd prerunner style still on the farm in Florida. Always a possibility to go get the Tomken rear bumper, Dynomax cat back, 31x10.5 BFG AT's (very low mi) on really cool Pacers (outlaw II knock offs). 3" RC w/aal isn't worth messin with. XJ's wore out too. Can't sell it out there right now. That would change the whole lift dilema with the 31's and the fenders. But that leads to SYE, adj track arm, neck bone connected to the knee bone, ect, ect.....Thats what I have tried over & over to teach my boys...wanna be crawlers. Change one thing...what does THAT change elswhere. I'm going crazy here.

[ExpoMike]

You're on the right track. It's what I call the domino effect. So many newbies try to cheap out and just see the cost of part X, not understanding they also really need part Y and Z to go with it. Next thing you hear is them complaining that part X is a piece of crap or they now have this problem or that.

Whenever you start modifying anything beyond stock, you have to look at everything, cause and effect. Again, plan out what you want to do and start collecting parts. Like I had mentioned before, even stock, an XJ is quite capable. Also, buy parts that you can build on to and not have to replace when you decide the next mod. Saves a lot of money and frustration.

I used to be very quick to buy something and in the end regret a lot of the purchases I have made. Anymore, I spend 10's to 100's of hours thinking over mods and parts. Heck, my roof rack idea, I have spent 100's of hours over the last two years planning. Heck I have even bought/gotten two different roof racks that I haven't even put on and got rid of, since they were not exactly what I had in my head. I finally have my plan and just need to get my '68 truck project out of the garage so I can get to my welders again.

Again, feel free to ask questions or for comments. I for one am happy to help out.

[mc2az]

XJ Mike Check your Private messages.............

[ExpoMike]

XJ Mike Check your Private messages.............

Done and email sent :victory:

[Markos]

One thing to remember is that OME leafs do not come with leaf springs. If you go with Dirk, I believe that he will install them himself (1 point - Dirk). They can be a real PITA to install. Jason is also a long-time jeeper and has been on jeepsunlimited.com forever. I believe that he works closely with Dirk actually, you'd have to ask him. I ran into some fitment issues with the bushings that I purchased from jeepinoutfitters - don't know if they were the wrong size or what. I never contact Jason about it, so this isn't a negative comment on his business.

OME parts are sold a la carte. Dirk and others piece these together to make 'kits'. The terms light duty, heavy duty, etc are generic terms that offroaders and suppliers have coined. The actual parts simply go by part numbers.

Since you are in Arizona, another option would be to get the parts from Desert Fab out in AJ. That's where I got my parts from. I had him install the leaf bushings in exchange for a pizza and some mountan dew. :)

If you are looking to save a bit of cash, you can get 2" 160lb springs from Rusty's for $100 (you will hear a lot of negative feedback about Rusty's though, I think the coils would probably do fine). If you call up Rubicon Express also has 2" springs, although they aren't listed on their website (one-off batch). Since the 160lb OME coils cost around $300, it's something to consider.

I'm running the following:


Old Man Emu N35 Shock
Old Man Emu N36 Shock
Old Man Emu JC1B Leaf Pack
U Bolts 8.25
JKS Quicker Disco's
Rubicon Express 2" Coil (no part #)
Rubicon Express SS extended brakelines


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2305/2051924972_7561be3931_o.jpg

[mc2az]

http://http://thumb3.webshots.net/t/74/174/6/50/55/2949650550104689283hhzyLj_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2949650550104689283hhzyLj)

Alright guys here it is!
"98 xj 137K I found it in Denver about 3 weeks ago on cars.com and called the dealer a week ago some small fly by night used car lot, asked him to hold it with my credit card until I could get up there this weekend. My wife and I jumped in the Santa Fe Thursday after work and drove to Denver, pulled on the car lot Friday about 2pm. And, there's my baby. The picture's on cars.com weren't that good so the first thing I did was look to see if there was a dent on the hatch which appeared in shadows online. Whew, Clean!!!
Got a creeper from the car lot shop and started crawling around underneath it, not rust. what appears to be 3" rough country but no markings. Everything seemed tight under there; opened the hood to my surprise K & N Air Filter System looks good here. Grabbed the keys started right up; got in drove down the street. Downtown Denver no where really to rap it out got it up to 50- cruise control works ya hoo... went around some back neighborhood locked in transfer case; climbed a few curbs, one front wheet at a time seems okay. Brakes pretty good; no typical xj suspension rattles; drove back to lot- wife and I head home $5100 lighter. Headed to the motel from the car lot on freeway between 50 & 55 very noticeable but manageable front end wobble; sat in the motel and tried to figure- **** for tires 265-? (can't remember) trying to think if I am going to deal with the wobble or go ahead and buy tires in Denver before driving back to Phoenix. Tomorrow's 4th of July. Wake up 4th of July in Denver decide on Pep Boys cheapo Dakota's just to get me home.

PepBoys 245-75-16's (yep 16 get to that later) $109 a piece (buy 3 get one free- rebate) Dakota AT's- front end alignment $49 free oil change plus odds and ends- wife put in the cart while they were working on the Jeep 11am leave Pepboys smooth as silk- no wobble, steering wheel straight, set the cruise and lean back. 63mph at 2000rpm.

Pros-
1.- Green
2. Cruise Control works
3. 16" RUBICON RIMS
4. Green
5. ARB winch bumper
6. PIAA offroad lights
7. Super Clean
8. Stock Radio
9. K & N Intake System

Cons-
1. Crap Tires (temporarily taken care of)
2. A/C cold but very little fan blowing through vents
3. Unidentified lift system
4. No SYE
5. Some sort of fuel delivery hick-up during take off could last for up to a minute like fuel pump, fuel filter- don't know but if it's rapped out on the throttle I can usually get past it- set cruise and drive for hours.

[mc2az]

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2949650550104689283hhzyLj]http://thumb3.webshots.net/t/74/174/6/50/55/2949650550104689283hhzyLj_th.jpg[/URL]

Let's try this shot.

XJ Mike you were very helpful and thanks man... All you guys coming over to my shop (this thread) thanks, but don't leave yet I'm still going to need your help, things I'm going to find and need to work on.

[mc2az]

http://http://s761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/mc2az/

try this- we're having trouble figuring out how to add the picture.

[mc2az]

http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/mc2az/IMG_2012.jpg

we're still doing something wrong but see if this will give you the pic if you click on the link address

[Maximus Ram]

Here ya go
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/mc2az/IMG_2012.jpg


nice looking XJ

[ExpoMike]

Nice looking Cherokee. I got your PM. Hope you get the little stuff sorted out.

I think I figured out what the problem was with the first post you tried to put a pic in, you had http:// twice. Should only have that part once.

Congrats!

[Jay S.]

Pros-
1.- Green
2. Cruise Control works
3. 16" RUBICON RIMS
4. Green
5. ARB winch bumper
6. PIAA offroad lights
7. Super Clean
8. Stock Radio
9. K & N Intake System
10. High Pinion Dana 30!


Cons-
1. Crap Tires (temporarily taken care of)
2. A/C cold but very little fan blowing through vents
3. Unidentified lift system
4. No SYE
5. Some sort of fuel delivery hick-up during take off could last for up to a minute like fuel pump, fuel filter- don't know but if it's rapped out on the throttle I can usually get past it- set cruise and drive for hours.[/QUOTE]

[mc2az]

Explain the high pinion ( I don't have a problem admitting my ignorance). The more I drive it the more I love it. Gobbs of power, smooth ride on road (got to figure out the lift). Been workin a lot since I got back, and no shop available right now so I can't wait to really get into it. Great mpg so far too.

[BIGdaddy]

Explain the high pinion ( I don't have a problem admitting my ignorance). The more I drive it the more I love it. Gobbs of power, smooth ride on road (got to figure out the lift). Been workin a lot since I got back, and no shop available right now so I can't wait to really get into it. Great mpg so far too.

the pinion is a gear that looks looks like an Ice cream cone that goes into the back of the axle. the part of the pinion gear that you can see is the output that has the u-joint yoke or flange...

In the Dana 30 there are two flavors...high pinion and low pinion. The low pinion has this gear coming in towards the bottom of the housing. The high comes in high on the housing.

Low pinion and high pinion dana 44's, but same exact Idea:

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/images/dana44/lowpinionvshighpinion.jpg

[Root Moose]

The advantage of the high pinion is clearance due to being higher, smoothness due to being higher and there being less driveline anglularity for the u-joints to operate through, and strength due to the ring and pinion gears being a reverse spiral cut.

[mc2az]

Just ran outside to check....nope -Low pinion. I guess my lucks not that good. But now that I know I'll keep my out for one.

[Root Moose]

Just ran outside to check....nope -Low pinion. I guess my lucks not that good. But now that I know I'll keep my out for one.

Your Jeep is high pinion - unless the axle has been replaced somewhere along the way (doubtful).

MY00 was the first year for low pinions in XJs.

[BIGdaddy]

Just ran outside to check....nope -Low pinion. I guess my lucks not that good. But now that I know I'll keep my out for one.

hmmm...can you take a picture? that would be an oddball setup. Like a 29 spline 8.25 in my 1992...

[mc2az]

out there first thing this am with a flash light it does have a 30 HP on the front, thanks guys

[mc2az]

been running hwy with 210 degree's (12 oclock high) on the temp guage. Wonder if I need a different Thermostat installed for down here in the desert.

[BIGdaddy]

out there first thing this am with a flash light it does have a 30 hp on the front, thanks guys

:26_7_2:

:)

[BIGdaddy]

been running hwy with 210 degree's (12 oclock high) on the temp guage. Wonder if I need a different Thermostat installed for down here in the desert.

hmmm...pretty sure thats normal, though with my new alum setup i'm runnin' abit cooler on the highway. traffic has me sittin' at 200, though.

[Root Moose]

been running hwy with 210 degree's (12 oclock high) on the temp guage. Wonder if I need a different Thermostat installed for down here in the desert.

That's about the right temperature. These engines run hot at the best of times and the 97+ even more so (to get through emissions).

There's not a lot of leeway on the cooling system. If you spot a problem deal with it immediately. The Jeep should be fine provided everything is working correctly. Straight up needle is good! :)

We don't have the temps up here that you guys have. I'd suspect a little bit of needle movement would be normal if you are pulling a trailer up a steep grade with the AC on. It should never go into the red though.

[BIGdaddy]

That's about the right temperature. These engines run hot at the best of times and the 97+ even more so (to get through emissions).

There's not a lot of leeway on the cooling system. If you spot a problem deal with it immediately. The Jeep should be fine provided everything is working correctly. Straight up needle is good! :)

We don't have the temps up here that you guys have. I'd suspect a little bit of needle movement would be normal if you are pulling a trailer up a steep grade with the AC on. It should never go into the red though.

x2, I jumped on my radiator leak like a cat on a june bug. The reason the xj is such a good rig is the motor. No WAY i'm letting this sucker overheat...:snorkel:

[ExpoMike]

As others have said, stay on top of the cooling system. This also includes an overlooked item, the fan clutch. Outside of the typical things like good, clean radiator, water pump, t-stat, hoses, etc., many overlook the condition of the fan clutch, which will show up as low speed overheating even when all the other items have been replaced.

210* is normal temp for most newer cars/truck and was done to meet emissions. Some will try to put in colder t-stats and such and find their mileage drops. This is because the computer thinks it is running cool and richens up the fuel mixture. Mileage goes down and you risk killing the catalitic converter.

I find if I am pulling a big grade or towing, it might come up to 215* and then the electric fan kicks in and it comes back down to 210*. I also find when pulling a big grade or towing, I put the tranny into 3rd gear and it helps keep it around 210*. Not a real noticable difference in gas mileage. On the highway, no trailer, I typically get about 21 mpg. Towing and using 3rd more often then not, I end up 18-19 mpg.

BTW, if you are running 245/75-16 on the stock 3.55 gears and the speedo sending unit gear wasn't changed for the larger tires, your mileage number may not be correct. I changed to 4.10 gears when I went to that size tire and changed the sending unit gear to the correct one for that gear ratio and tire size. Speedo is correctly reading and driveablity is exactly the same as when stock.

[mc2az]

I checked the milage with the GPS and seems to be about 21mpg hwy- so far so good. speedo seems to read about 2 mph slower than GPS at 60. How do I figure out if previous owner changed gears. I have great acceleration and can live with the speedo as is -since I have GPS on most of the time. BTW since I got home I have not experienced the coughing and catalytic back fire as before (huh) on take off. Still have engine light and will run codes soon.

[ExpoMike]

If you don't have a locker or LSD, then jack up one rear wheel and rotate it one revolution. Count how many times the driveshaft spins (might need to put a mark so you know each revolution). If you have a locker or LSD, jack up both wheels and do the same.

If the driveshaft spins about 3.5 turns, you have 3.55, if about 4 turns, you have 4.10. If in between 3.5 and 4 turns, then 3.73 but they are rare.

You also might want to do the front the same way, just to make sure both axles are the same gearing. You do not want to have them different if you ever use 4WD. You will destroy the transfer case. BTW, if you have a 231 transfer case, don't put it in 4WD while on pavement. It is designed for low traction areas (i.e. dirt, snow, mud) only, you will kill it very quickly.

[mc2az]

Well still working the bugs out of the new XJ. One thing thats really bugged me was the suspension system someone else did. It rides great and plenty of travel but the rear leafs are flat as pancakes with blocks under them and seems to have 2" taller front coils but shocks and all have no markings. So I took XJ Mike's advice this morning and called Dirk at DPG. He was very helpfull and I would recommend him to any one. I ordered with his advice an OME 2" system- HVY front/MED rear due to the ARB winch bumper. I can't wait till next weekend to break into it. My buddy even has an AC'd shop he said we could use. I was so excited when the wife said go ahead and order that I forgot to ask Dirk about rear bushings and Ubolts...got to call him back Monday. Yahoo, we wrenchin now!

[ExpoMike]

Congrats.

You will want to get bushing as my OME did not come with them. Stock ones are fine. Trick I found to help get them in (which you most likely will need the use of a press) was to take a couple flat blade screwdrivers and wedge them into the end of the spring wrap. This opens the hole for the bushing just a little, which makes getting them started much easier. I couldn't get them to start without doing that.

If you have blocks already, you will definitely want to get U-bolts too, since your current ones will be too long.

Good luck.