Source for ball-bearing drawer-runners?

[DesertRose]

After this weekend's Trophy and Forum, I discovered the joys of camping out of the back of a Taco again (180K miles and this was our first time without our old FourWheel Popup!). We're certainly lacking some fine tuning!

So I'm plotting a custom rollout system for the back - I looked at the available bed trays and they're hugely expensive ($700 is the cheapest - with a simple plywood top).

All I need are the high quality runners and Jonathan can build the custom slideouts (I want 2, full bed length, rather than one giant one).

All I see are sources for 36" drawer sliders - nothing longer.

Any ideas?

[DaktariEd]

You might consider limiting depth to 36" and designing in bins or compartments at the cab end of the unit.

A slide longer than 36" may be too much leverage to hold any significant weight, without a serious heavy-duty construction.

Just a thought...
Ed :sombrero:

[SinCity4r]

Best prices I've seen:
http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&p=46578&cat=3,43614,43616&ap=1

250lb, 16-36" selection.

[kcowyo]

I have a couple of links saved that might help, dunno - :wavey:

Knack Manufacturing (http://www.knaacksecure.com/content.cfm?page_id=16&subcategory_id=18) - actual drawer units

McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?sesnextrep=630355873637956&partnum=&pagenum=3093&cad=&psearch=&selectfamily=&search=&pagetype=&catnum=112)- drawer slides. (catalog page # 2862 - won't let me link directly to the page) They have a HUGE catalog. I think they offer everything under the sun

[bigreen505]

Try eBay.

Another option is to get creative and make your own. I was hoping to have a cool idea to offer with Harken track (http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d78000/e76034.asp) and either making your own car by machining UMHW plastic or make your drawer bottoms totally flat a line both drawer and carcas with UMHW tape.

Or you could get a few blocks of UMHW plastic from your local plastic shop an make a track to go on one surface and the tenon type arrangement on the other ike this I]

[articulate]

This is a very specialized slide: what else uses something so long? So, I think I'd talk to Tuffy products about the slides on their full-length truck drawers. (http://tuffyproducts.com/truckbox/115.html) Simply inquire about what they use for slides, if they make them in house or something. If such a product exists for the public to purchase, there's a good chance that there is only one manufacturer.

I took the liberty to check some makers of full extension slides that we sell at work, and nobody has anything longer than 36". That doesn't mean 72" slides don't exist, but there just might not be distribution for the public.

Who had some deep drawers at the rally? Pasquale maybe? I wonder how long his are.

If you can't source an appropriate slide, might I suggest making the drawers with full length "lips" to serve as a gliding surface? You could make the drawers with these lips (maybe 2" wide?) that have a HDPE slat on the bottom side, and the drawer casings could have a matching lip like surface with a HDPE slat on the top side. The drawers would slide on that surface, and be pretty cost effective. Since I've got so much other stuff to do, I made a cute little picture of what I mean - sort of.

I wonder if I'm conveying this well...

[articulate]

Or you could get a few blocks of UMHW plastic from your local plastic shop an make a track to go on one surface and the tenon type arrangement on the other ike this I]
Bill! Perfect. That's the word I meant: TRACK. You and I are on a similar page.

[BajaTaco]

Paul from Equipt was showing us his cool roller tray at the Trophy. He used some skateboard bearings. You might ask him about it.

[articulate]

Paul from Equipt was showing us his cool roller tray at the Trophy. He used some skateboard bearings. You might ask him about it.
YEAH! There you go. Just some wheels mounted inside the carcass and a track/ledge on the drawer would work really well.

Good call.

[bigreen505]

That was actually my first thought (ABEC 9 dude!), but how do you keep everything aligned? The beauty of a drawer slide is that it holds the drawer in proper spatial alignment (on track) as you pull it all the way out.

[Grim Reaper]

Some of those $700 Bed slides use Garage door track and hardware. Thats how I plan to make the one for my little trailer I am building. :ylsmoke:

[DesertRose]

Great ideas all -- thank you for the input.

First - DaktariEd - much as (even after 22 years) Jonathan and I enjoy a nice view of each other's rear end's (ie - crawling into the far back of the camper) we're getting to the point where our knees just won't take the crawling any longer!

Hence, I would like full-length sliders. Not drawers, though - we want platforms we can use as tables, and secure our stove and fridge on.

And Mark! Runners with ZEBRA STICKERS! How cool is that?! Well worth $700 I'm sure. Love it.

But I agree that I'd be concerned about a couple things: for the weight I want it to support, it would likely stick like the dickens (what is a dickens, anyway?). Afraid good old steel ball bearings might be it.

And finally - garage door tracks - brilliant!

We'll test all these ideas out and get back to you. Great ideas all.

[oldcj5guy]

Call an RV dealer. We used to call what you are looking for a kangaroo bed. We used them in Rv's for slides in pass through compartments. It came as 2 slides and you built the deck. Last one I did would slide out and the owner would run his harley up on it lock it down and slide it back in. That means it will probably carry the weight you are looking for. The preice is a lot better than some of the stuff I have saw mentioned. I can't remember the manufacturerer at the moment, but i will call one of my buddies still at the dealer tomorrow.

[oldcj5guy]

http://www.kwikee.com/Acargo.html

This is the one i was talking about.

[DesertRose]

http://www.kwikee.com/Acargo.html

This is the one i was talking about.

Bingo - these are perfect. Super high quality - totally customizable, and up to 90" (or more) long.

Thanks so much - now back to the planning board. This is going to be very fun.

[Charger92]

This is the company I went with for my rear deck drawers.

http://www.accuride.com/products/industrial/category.php

The old contractor guy I worked with had slide out drawers on the work truck both sides, with a heavy duty generator mounted in the drawer. We would just pull up slide the drawers out each side and work all day. They were banged around, jumped on, sat on, and neglected.
The drawer slides held up great to years of abuse.
One of the head guys went with some cheep Lee Valley slides on his truck, trying to save a buck, with the same weight rating as the Accuride but his did not last a year on site.
You also have to consider the jiggling weight down the roads it will pound and crush bearings if they are not of good grade hard steel, made for automotive outdoor abuse.

I had the company name years back from the construction work truck and totally forgot till last year when I was looking for some for my self and ran into a fireman at the fire hall washing the the big red truck. He had a drawer pulled out the side and I asked if I could look at the name of the drawer slide.
Low and be hold the name popped back up as soon as I seen it.

[DesertRose]

Keeps getting better - the Accurides are even more heavy duty and customizable. They can be mounted on bottom or sides, and are available just the slides, so the savings will be considerable.

Thank you!

[bigreen505]

Keeps getting better - the Accurides are even more heavy duty and customizable.

I wasn't joking about my first post, check eBay. You can score some sweet deals on Accurides from people who buy too many for a project and put the rest up. I bought enough to redo my kitchen for about 1/3 of the cost of retail. Worth a look.

[HongerVenture]

First - DaktariEd - much as (even after 22 years) Jonathan and I enjoy a nice view of each other's rear end's (ie - crawling into the far back of the camper) we're getting to the point where our knees just won't take the crawling any longer!

Hence, I would like full-length sliders. Not drawers, though - we want platforms we can use as tables, and secure our stove and fridge on.


Stick with this conviction Roseann, you are right on.

My wife and I have slideout storage at the back of the bed but have compartments at the front of the bed. These compartments are quickly losing their appeal as we have to crawl to the front of the bed to access them. Not to mention that our bedding lays over them and makes accessing them that much more difficult.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b247/honger01/TruckCamper/FinishedSetup.jpg

I'm watching carefully this thread for ideas. The accuride and kwikee solutions both look great. I really love the garage door hardware idea because of the availability of parts and ease of maintenance. All great ideas.

[ZooJunkie]

I second the Accurides, they are da bomb. :arabia:

Though a bit pricey, but you can find them for less on ebay.

[DesertRose]

I'm watching carefully this thread for ideas. The accuride and kwikee solutions both look great. I really love the garage door hardware idea because of the availability of parts and ease of maintenance. All great ideas.

We'll keep it coming - slowly but surely. Although I'd LOVE to just buy another FourWheel Popup, that isn't happening (we would rather sink our meager funds into the foundation of our [future] house). So that means back to simple and fun camping!:1888fbbd:

[flyingwil]

This might be a solution.... the cargo bed (http://www.cargobed.com/)

[DaktariEd]

I guess I do not picture what you are after. I was thinking you are talking a static platform with drawer unit beneath.

But what I now seem to read is a platform that slides out...is that correct? And for what? A bed? A table? Where is your bed to be? Inside? or tent?

Help me understand...I am soooo confused! ;)

[DesertRose]

I would like full-length sliders. Not drawers, though - we want platforms we can use as tables, and secure our stove and fridge on.

But I agree that I'd be concerned about a couple things: for the weight I want it to support, it would likely stick like the dickens (what is a dickens, anyway?). Afraid good old steel ball bearings might be it.

Picture this: On the bed of the pickup are secured 2 platforms (not drawers) - probably but not necessarily equal in width but definitely taking up whole length of bed- upon which are secured by some means assorted gear items such as: Engel, propane stove, propane bottle, plastic or wood (e.g. - our Chuck Box) storage bins or units, etc. On the posterior end of one slideout platform would be something to act as table or work surface . . . an instant kitchen if you will.

Unlike with a static drawer system, we can move things around and change the layout as needed for different kinds of trips or more gear.

Also, I want to add a shelf to the top inside of the A.R.E. shell - for chairs and another small table; still working on how we're going to do this, but it will utilize a lot of that "dead" space up there. My goal is to not have to do a roof rack - keep it sleek and aerodynamic.



We're opting for a freestanding tent (more on this in future thread). We don't like to sleep in the back of the truck - too small (with the dog) and a real pain if you're in bear country and you don't have a place to put your cooler and garbage and food (I've had two too many midnight encounters with hungry ursidae - and not the kind that work for New Mexico Game and Fish!!).

[Robthebrit]

Haffle and Sugatsune make really nice hardware for all purposes (sugatsune make hinges for mercedes benz). Its all made in Europe, it can be expensive in the US and its all metric which is an issue for some people.

Rob

[Desertdude]

Small tip - even though the sliders are a certain length you can usually make your drawers somewhat longer - and load in less used items in that space...

[TACODOC]

Drawers are in my future... soon. Possibly one big one for maximum use of my limited cubic inches. The box and drawer are easy to build. Good ball bearing sliders are the key element I'm lacking...

[DesertRose]

Here's what I'm visualizing for the back of my 2000 Tacoma - 2 slideout platforms (not drawers) on which we can secure our camping equipment in such a way as to have a nearly instant kitchen/staging area, and have easy access to gear/bedding storage boxes up toward the cab.

The Accurides seem to be the best bet so far - strength, length, mounting options.

Call me a nerd for making these schematics, but what else was I to do stuck at the airport for 5 hours - work?!

The size of the images came out a bit small but I think you can get the point. The Chuck Box is a classic "chuckwagon" wooden box for holding all our silverware, plates, glasses (martini fixings), and cookware etc. - it has a fold-down front with cutting board. Jonathan made it for me. We also have a custom stainless steel 15 gallon water tank with baffles that is for the FJ40 but Jonathan had it made so it fits the Taco, too - (see the thread at http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1852&highlight=water+tank


http://www.jandrhanson.com/rh/truckbed3.jpg

http://www.jandrhanson.com/rh/truckbed4.jpg

[Desertdude]

Christo Slee has something similar on his newest vehicle project the " Vlakvark" the sliding system held all his gear and could be slid out easliy for access - seen HERE (http://www.sleeoffroad.com/technical/vlakvark/vlakvark_main.htm) -




http://www.sleeoffroad.com/technical/vlakvark/FZJ85_210.jpg

[Desertdude]

btw - what are your thoughts on dust ?

[DesertRose]

btw - what are your thoughts on dust ?

It makes me sneeze.

No, just kidding, sorry.

I'm concerned about dust clogging up the slides, for sure. Before we invest in such a system, we're going to have to really re-double our efforts to dustproof the back.

That means getting rid of the current topper and getting a better one. We have the A.R.E. Z-series topper with the big flat glass lift-up door and it leaks dust like crazy - always has. At the Trophy event I noticed those who have the A.R.E. CX series (Chuck/ursidae69 and Chris/Bajataco) had almost no dust. The lift-up door seals really well (it has a lip system) and I also like the side-lifting window option.

So our A.R.E. may be for sale soon!

[Grim Reaper]

I really like the concept.

Do you have any pictures of the Chuck box? I am wanting to do something similar.

I am doing something similar but on a base with a drawer that holds recovery gear and tools. Some of the space can hold food prep items. The drawer only pulls out the length of the gate. It is also sleeping platform in a 4Runner so I don't have the bed length you have so it won't clear the tail gate.

Because this will also serve as a sleep platform whatever I come up with I want to pull out and go to the side so I can climb in and sleep. I also want whatever slide out that is on the top to not add any more hight. The 8.5 inches of the base unit already makes it difficult to sit up.

I am thinking a locking foot in the front that can be removed easily when the deck needs to be a sleeping platform. Put a quick release latch on the back to secure it to the truck. Put skate board wheels on the end with the foot. Then I can lift the rear get the front on the wheels and disengage the foot at the front and roll it out the back. Maybe pull out and hang on the tire/gas can rack that will end up on the back of the truck. Then easily leave in the garage because this is also a DD.

I am going to get a chunk of Corian to permanently attach to the gate as a prep table. When open the gate is like your truck so I could easily tip it up and rinse off any mess.

Look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Attached is a picture of my Drawer base I am building.

[DesertRose]

Wow - I really like your drawer/platform setup. It might be worth our re-thinking ours.

I'll see if I can photograph the chuck box soon.

Meanwhile here are some links for others' plans for chuck boxes or "patrol boxes" - one from the Boy Scouts of America.

http://www.troop168.net/forms/patrolboxa.htm

http://www.blueskykitchen.com/

The latter is very neat - really well-thought-out.

This box:

http://www.blueskykitchen.com/images/wt_PICS/WT-stored-state_web.jpg

which has a nice stove storage drawer:

http://www.blueskykitchen.com/images/wt_PICS/WT-stove_store_web.jpg

Becomes this workstation:

http://www.blueskykitchen.com/images/wt_PICS/WT-setup_web.jpg




Roseann

[DesertRose]

The thing I like about our chuckbox - even over the cool Blue Sky ones above - is that you can drop the front of it and have instant access to a work surface, drawers with utensils, shelves for plates - so you can make lunch while travelling and not have to unpack everything. Photos soon!

[DesertRose]

Here is our chuckbox, on the tailgate of a friend's Toyota:

http://www.jandrhanson.com/rh/chuckbox4.jpg

http://www.jandrhanson.com/rh/chuckbox1.jpg

http://www.jandrhanson.com/rh/chuckbox2.jpg

http://www.jandrhanson.com/rh/chuckbox3.jpg

Shelves are lined with cork, and the plates and big cooking utensils are secured on the far left with bungee cord.

I just realized that it's 20 years old this year!

[Redback]

After this weekend's Trophy and Forum, I discovered the joys of camping out of the back of a Taco again (180K miles and this was our first time without our old FourWheel Popup!). We're certainly lacking some fine tuning!

So I'm plotting a custom rollout system for the back - I looked at the available bed trays and they're hugely expensive ($700 is the cheapest - with a simple plywood top).

All I need are the high quality runners and Jonathan can build the custom slideouts (I want 2, full bed length, rather than one giant one).

All I see are sources for 36" drawer sliders - nothing longer.

Any ideas?

This mob have 1500mm drawer slides available
Hafele
http://www.hafele.com.au/isapi/online/tchff/tchff.asp
http://www.hafele.com.au/isapi/online/tchff/img/tchff_829_p0.jpg

LENGTHS FROM
508 mm...227 kg 20 INCHES

TO

1524 mm...155 kg 59 INCHES

[ZooJunkie]

Link to accuride sliders.

http://www.rockler.com/findit.cfm?page=1491&cookietest=1

[Grim Reaper]

Here is our chuckbox, on the tailgate of a friend's Toyota:

http://www.jandrhanson.com/rh/chuckbox4.jpg

http://www.jandrhanson.com/rh/chuckbox1.jpg

http://www.jandrhanson.com/rh/chuckbox2.jpg

http://www.jandrhanson.com/rh/chuckbox3.jpg

Shelves are lined with cork, and the plates and big cooking utensils are secured on the far left with bungee cord.

I just realized that it's 20 years old this year!


Thats a nice one!

I like the front opening much better as well for the same reasons. If I was setting camp for multiple days the expanding style makes sense. I think its a lot of extra weight that a more simple design like yours will be more to my liking. I really like the utensil drawer.

It looks like the shelves and the drawer is all in dado's so it can be reconfigured?

I had hoped to make mine only 10-12 inches tall since it is already sitting on a 8.5 inch platform. That would alow some visibility over it. After looking at a few of these it seems most are 15-18 and that really seems to be better working size. I need to find a cardboard box and see how that size will work for me. I do have about 36 inches of depth I can work with but that will make it a little more difficult to move alone.

I have a bunch of scrap aluminum 1/8 inch thick and some buck rivets. And I have decided on how to make a home made brake. I think I will see about making some of the drawers out of the aluminum to save weight and space.

Thanks for the pictures and links, gives me some ideas for mine.

[BajaTaco]

Roseann, I got to see your chuckbox in action at the Trophy and I really like it. (Thanks for the martini!)

Regarding the dust, be sure to seal up the factory "holes" that exist on the underside of the bed rails on your Tacoma. Where the inner and outer skins of the bedsides are pressed together there are large oval perforations that will let dust in. I used some foam weatherstripping to cover the holes and clear RTV silicone to make sure it stayed put.

[DesertRose]

Thats a nice one!

Thanks - it's Jonathan's work - he's wonderfully talented in woodworking.


It looks like the shelves and the drawer is all in dado's so it can be reconfigured?

Correct - makes it nice and customizable.


I do have about 36 inches of depth I can work with but that will make it a little more difficult to move alone.

An important consideration - I'm just able to move ours alone but it's pretty awkward and one misstep and you can just hear your back muscles rip.

Good luck with building - I'm an organization junkie and this is one of my favorite pieces of camping gear, hands-down. (BTW, at the time Jonathan made this, I was doing lots of travel in Mexico on my own, scuba diving - and he added a lovely little leaping-dolphin motif at the back of the cutlery drawer, just for me ;-)

[DesertRose]

Roseann, I got to see your chuckbox in action at the Trophy and I really like it. (Thanks for the martini!)

Regarding the dust, be sure to seal up the factory "holes" that exist on the underside of the bed rails on your Tacoma. Where the inner and outer skins of the bedsides are pressed together there are large oval perforations that will let dust in. I used some foam weatherstripping to cover the holes and clear RTV silicone to make sure it stayed put.

Thanks for the tip, Chris! Next time, the martini will be properly cold!

[kcowyo]

Great Chuckbox! Jonathan does nice work, I see why you keep him around. :sombrero:

If you really are going to look for a new topper, I would suggest one with "windoors" that flip up on both sides. With that feature on the topper, you won't need slides or drawers or drawers with lids that slide out. Can I play devil's advocate a little?

My biggest complaint about drawers and slideouts is the loss of the tailgate as a fulltime camp table. Anything on the tailgate must be moved when a drawer or slide out is opened. Kind of a pain when you already have dinner cooking on the tailgate. This also a minor annoyance with gear stashed in storage boxes under a sleeping deck. In addition, waking up in the middle of the night and needing something means crawling out of the truck, dropping the tailgate, pulling out drawers or boxes, digging through the gear, etc. It's even more fun in the rain.

I like having the tailgate free for a cookspace, mini-bar, BSing zone, etc. I attempted a slightly different solution prior to last years ExPo Rally, when I was sleeping in the back. I didn't get it finished properly in time, but it worked well enough to give full access to all of my gear without having to reshuffle everything or exposing my stuff to inclement weather or losing my tailgate as a fulltime table/seat.

Instead of drawers or slide outs, I built an L shaped box with hinged lids for access. With the toppers windoors, I was able to reach in the bed, open a lid and there was my trowel. If I woke up to rain, I simply lifted the lid and there was my stove and coffee. When opened to 90 degrees, the underside of the lid acted as a small prep table so if I had to, I could sit back there and make a sandwich or brew some coffee in nasty weather.

The L shaped box allowed for an open corner in the bed for oddball shaped gear, like my water container and chuckbox that wouldn't fit underneath the box. Whether sleeping in the back or in a tent, this just seemed easier because everything stayed in one place. I just had to remember where I put certain things, lift a lid and there it was. As a bonus, I was able to leave my Thermarest and bedroll layed out the whole trip.

Maybe bad weather camping isn't a primary concern in the beautiful southwest, but that system allowed me to be truly "self contained," and eliminated the constant reshuffling of gear. The windoors are key though, for accessing ones gear while standing outside the truck. But it made for a simple solution and even Mr. BajaTaco got a kick out of how easily I was able to set up camp and get to Happy Hour.

Regardless, I look forward to seeing what you two come up with as I'm sure you've spent a lot of time (in airports) giving this some serious consideration. Attached are a few pics of that box (and an icey interior I awoke to in Escalante) that I never did finish, but it gives a visual to this long diatribe.

:beer:

[DesertRose]

Hi KC - thanks for the information. I like that clear-topped storage box. Where did you get it?

Your setup works well for someone who sleeps in the truck and has the side windows for sure. We use a tent (planning to get one of the OzTent RV3s) and as of this date I'm not sure I can swing a new side-open-windows ARE shell, finances-wise. Plus, with the slight lift, and any future lifts, for someone not taller than 5'7", it's still a reach to get to stuff on the floor or even raised a little.

The way I am thinking the platforms work is that one of them becomes the tailgate table - an even better one because it's out of the way and you can still get into the back of the truck without having a stove or fridge in the way.

But of course the perfect solution is a Four Wheel Popup - which we'll eventually get again (this time we're looking for a shell so we can build our own interior).

[climber-420]

Great Chuckbox! Jonathan does nice work, I see why you keep him around. :sombrero:

If you really are going to look for a new topper, I would suggest one with "windoors" that flip up on both sides. With that feature on the topper, you won't need slides or drawers or drawers with lids that slide out. Can I play devil's advocate a little?

My biggest complaint about drawers and slideouts is the loss of the tailgate as a fulltime camp table. Anything on the tailgate must be moved when a drawer or slide out is opened. Kind of a pain when you already have dinner cooking on the tailgate. This also a minor annoyance with gear stashed in storage boxes under a sleeping deck. In addition, waking up in the middle of the night and needing something means crawling out of the truck, dropping the tailgate, pulling out drawers or boxes, digging through the gear, etc. It's even more fun in the rain.

I like having the tailgate free for a cookspace, mini-bar, BSing zone, etc. I attempted a slightly different solution prior to last years ExPo Rally, when I was sleeping in the back. I didn't get it finished properly in time, but it worked well enough to give full access to all of my gear without having to reshuffle everything or exposing my stuff to inclement weather or losing my tailgate as a fulltime table/seat.

Instead of drawers or slide outs, I built an L shaped box with hinged lids for access. With the toppers windoors, I was able to reach in the bed, open a lid and there was my trowel. If I woke up to rain, I simply lifted the lid and there was my stove and coffee. When opened to 90 degrees, the underside of the lid acted as a small prep table so if I had to, I could sit back there and make a sandwich or brew some coffee in nasty weather.

The L shaped box allowed for an open corner in the bed for oddball shaped gear, like my water container and chuckbox that wouldn't fit underneath the box. Whether sleeping in the back or in a tent, this just seemed easier because everything stayed in one place. I just had to remember where I put certain things, lift a lid and there it was. As a bonus, I was able to leave my Thermarest and bedroll layed out the whole trip.

Maybe bad weather camping isn't a primary concern in the beautiful southwest, but that system allowed me to be truly "self contained," and eliminated the constant reshuffling of gear. The windoors are key though, for accessing ones gear while standing outside the truck. But it made for a simple solution and even Mr. BajaTaco got a kick out of how easily I was able to set up camp and get to Happy Hour.

Regardless, I look forward to seeing what you two come up with as I'm sure you've spent a lot of time (in airports) giving this some serious consideration. Attached are a few pics of that box (and an icey interior I awoke to in Escalante) that I never did finish, but it gives a visual to this long diatribe.

:beer:

Hi, I came across your message after looking up bed platforms. I am planning a 4 month rock climbing road trip around the country, and was wondering exactly how you made your platform. I have studied Bajataco's site quite a bit. Is your platform similiar to his? The reason I ask is because you talked about an L shaped box on yours, and I am trying to imagine what it looks like. I have a 2003 Tacoma, with Leer camper top on back, and a rocket box on top. If you don't mind sending me some pic's, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time. And if you know of anyone else's buildup I should look at, website's, anything... Please let me know.