$60,000 to spend?

[Carl]

Which option would you pick and why for camping, exploring, family use, with four wheel drive?

Used Sportsmobile - guessing a few year old, ideally diesel. My thoughts are that this vehicle is unique looking, can go most anywhere I'd want, but is "large" to drive and being a ford, maybe not the best ride quality, heavy, etc....

Syncro Westy - Hard for me to spend 60k on a 20 yr volkswagen, but they are unique, but I would assume somewhat smaller inside? Maybe in some respects less reliable than SMB?

Four wheel camper on truck - Probably a real useful combination, but not as unique, looks not as good, need to get out of front to get in back?

Any input on these would be appreciated!

[ujoint]

Tough decision... Do you want something turn key? Or something you can build up your own way?

[Carl]

Currently I have an 04 modified tacoma dbl cab as work/play truck. Daily driver is a Landrover LR3 which is also family vehicle for trips, vacation, etc...

My concern with SMB is that it would not be nearly as good daily driver for my back road 25 mile commute. Fine for family trips though.

What I was thinking was that if I did get SMB which is currently my first choice, I'd sell the Landrover, maybe the tacoma, and get comfortable daily driver like an Audi A-6.

Reservation with SMB is that it appears heavy, slow, poor on gas, and less than ideal for daily driving, better for vacations, trips, etc...

Seems like the price of a loaded used SMB comes somewhat close to a new one? 90-100k new, and many around 70-80k used? This makes for a tough decision in my mind which is why I am really giving thought and getting input from those who've done it!

[Carl]

Just noticed you site U-Joint!

The part I'm not confident in would be the camper part of a SMB, not so much the drive train, shocks, etc.... which is stuff I've done. This is why I was leaning toward a clean used SMB maybe 2005 or newer?

thoughts?

[Michael Slade]

Call these guys...

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=7204272&cat=143&lpid=

[vanderpooch]

I was in the exact same place you are six months ago. I wore out the four wheel camper, GoWesty and PO sportsmobile websites until I finally bought an 85 Weekender vanagon westy. had it painted, converted to syncro and a jetta 2.0 aba motor conversion done for $17,500 total. while we were there I added about 10k in parts and it is essentially a brand new van. It has a rear locker and a decoupler to switch from 2-4wd. new rims, tires, custom swing bumpers, tinted windows, recarro seats and recovered rear seats and i'm right at 30 grand. I am building the van for two runs a year 1 to central mexico whitewater kayaking and one to baja to chase waves plus many, many family weeknd trips. I am totally confident in my rig and the support between the guys that did the syncro and engine conversion as well as the 4 big vanagon vendors and the samba forums I feel like I just bought it off the lot! My gas is around 20 miles a gallon and although I use a big F- 250 for work as my DD I can do 12-14 hours straight in the saddle of the recarro seats and still be very comf.
The jetta conversion gives almost the same torque that the original waterboxer engines did but gaines a lot of horse power and makes it a great freeway flyer! loaded down i can still pull 75 in the left lane and no worries.
PM me if you want to talk more about it or if you would like some pics.
Cheers!

[ujoint]

Just noticed you site U-Joint!

The part I'm not confident in would be the camper part of a SMB, not so much the drive train, shocks, etc.... which is stuff I've done. This is why I was leaning toward a clean used SMB maybe 2005 or newer?

thoughts?

I would recommend to get behind the wheel of a SMB, and see how it feels to you. I use my van as a daily driver, but I don't really have a choice!

[Blackeye]

Our SMB is not our daily driver but after one year and 30,000 miles of adventure I can honestly say that it is a pleasure to drive and everything is in top shape. I know there are many options out there in terms of rigs, but for us, it is the only way to go.

http://blackeye.smugmug.com/photos/497319148_5hvgi-L.jpg

http://blackeye.smugmug.com/photos/502335116_T89Wi-L.jpg

http://blackeye.smugmug.com/photos/385518851_HNSUF-L.jpg

http://blackeye.smugmug.com/gallery/5514475_J85qK#337501966_4H7XS

All the best in whatever you select!

[Carl]

thanks for feedback!

Curious how big the interior of a Westy is vs. the SMB, especially if you have the extended body? I am 6'5" tall, so any extra height inside is nice.

I looked into the Westy option with syncro in the 30-70k range finished. I would question the benefit of having a 05 or newer SMB vs 20 year old westy?

[T.Low]

Since you asked, I would get the GoWesty for $30k (or build a similar Astro since you've used the word "unique" twice already) , a used Gasgas 450fse dual sport for $4500, and put the rest down on an '06 Z06 Vette.

Since you asked...:sombrero:

[Saline]

We bought an 04 SMB EB 50 4x4 last March for your price range. We love it! It has been great. Right now we are on day 17 of a month long road trip.

[trailsurfer]

I am averaging about 17 MPG's in mixed use driving.

[Carl]

Give me some idea of space in your van? with top up what is approx stand up room?

length of upper and lower bed approx?

how does this compare to a Westy?

[T.Low]

Isn't there that guy Jimmyjam or Jam or ? that has an SMB and a Vanagon syncro. I think he's works on Westys also. Point being, he seems like a good guy to compare/contrast.

[trailsurfer]

Give me some idea of space in your van? with top up what is approx stand up room?

length of upper and lower bed approx?

how does this compare to a Westy?


EB was and would be my choice again. I like having the extra 2 feet (ish). I think the official standup room with the top up is 6'9". I am 6'2" and have not even thought about the height.

No comparison with a Westy for interior space. Beds have got to be in the 78 inch range.

[Saline]

I wanted a RB initially because I was worried about departure angle. The used SMB we happened upon was an EB and we went for it. So far I have not dragged the tail on anything yet. We have 315's on it.
Bottom line for me is that the added 22" of space is well worth it.
Also of note that weighing in at 10,960lbs ( holy crap) we are still averaging 15 mpg.

[spencyg]

Oh Man...I love these questions!

If I had $60k to spend I'd probably go find a $25k F550 Diesel 4x4 as a base. The bed would get ripped off and on would go a custom aluminum framed / composite skinned camper box (Think EarthRoamer). The camper box could be built for probably $20k with basic systems. I'd then have $15k to spend on SRW upgrades, tires, armor, storage, and other fancy business. I'm afraid I'd abandon the van concept all together if given the option as they run out of space rather quickly when you start adding people (and their gear) to the fun.

Spence

[Icebox]

All of these options seem good. All have advantages as well as drawbacks. Now for a big question: Do you plan on or will you ever need to tow? There is a huge advantage in driving a vehicle that will tow your misc. quiver of toys.
Jeeps/Buggies/Boats/fillintheblanks..... that's the reason that we got what we got. Boat-and-a-Jeep. The cool part is kinda like climbing Everest. Think: Cool comfortable base camp, capable and light exploration rig, beat it till you break it, and tow the carnage home. Well maybe that was a little too dramatic but you get the idea. I used to flat tow my old CJ5 and then my CJ7 with my old 79 E250 Pathfinder 4wd. It had a 460/carb and got 9 mpg. My 88 gets double that and, thanks to the power mods, actually pulls hills better.
Works great as a commuter/backup when the others are down, as well as a nice private place to spend your lunch break. To me, the choice was obvious.
I-gotta-tow-stuff. Hope this helps, good luck.

[Carl]

Seems like when you compare, (at this cost) a quality solution, the SMB in late model with diesel is tough to beat. Somewhat reliable, easy to fix, etc....
I would want something I could tow a boat, motorcycle, with as well.

[trailsurfer]

10,000 pound towing capacity. I have towed my 8,000 pound boat with the SMB with ease here in the mountains.

[jammyauto]

I own both a syncro and a SMB, Maybe this is just a case "wandering eyes" but after seeing the 4x4 sprinter at the EXPO I wish I could start over again. That sprinter was really sweet IMHO. European body quality, very comfortable to drive and nice ride. Pretty good fuel economy as well. Kind of a "modern" syncro.

Heres my take

Sportsmobile Pros
Tows anything
Excellent 4x4 components on SMB 4x4
Very capable off road for 10k lb truck
Penthouse top is very spacious vs. westy
Modern vehicle (airbags, warranty etc)
very good resale for about 10 yrs.
initial quality good compared to american rv standards

Sportsmobile Cons
poor ride quality
parts and service almost non existant outside USA
Questionable drivetrain reliability
Diesel engine is vey loud compared to Chevy, Sprinter etc.
Overall weight
Cab comfort and floor height (entry/exit)
interior floor to cieling height could be better

VW Pros
Handleing and ride quality
driver comfort
body quality and interior quality
Worldwide parts and service
interior space vs vehicle size
weight
collectable status, prices are stable with some appreciation

VW Cons
Age requires constant repair, no exceptions
lack of modern safety systems
A/C system (camper)
underpowered

I would not reccomend a syncro to someone who does not want to be very hands on as a vehicle to travel long distances with. My VW is in very nice condition yet problems can pop up at anytime. You need to be able to fix things to live with a vw and be happy with it. THat being said my syncro is part of my "permanate" fleet. I have no plans to ever sell it. It's got soul and I enjoy driving it far more than driving my sportsmobile.
The sportsmobile is bigger (EB), carries more, has nice AC system, better range etc. It's my current family camper. With 2 kids and 2 german shepards the VW is just a little to small for us and all our stuff. For shorter trips by myself or just me and my wife we perfer the syncro. It's quiet, more manuverable and more comfortable. It's also less pretentious.
I must also add here that I'vew been suprised by how less than reliable my SMB has turned out to be. It's been to the dealer 4 times for major repair as well as two failures on "the trail" due to the SMB 4x4 system. All this in under 20k miles since new.
My SMB is pad off and my plan is to keep it for a few more years. I've got 2 daughters (10 and 12 yrs) who will only want to camp with us for a couple more years. After that the SMB is gone.
I'm allready thining about the next camper. Sprinter, Fuso or ? One things for sure it will be built for more "global" travel and less "wild west off-road" like the SMB.

[spencyg]

Very interesting points Seth. It isn't every day you get the persepctive of somebody who has experienced both sides of the fence and comes back saying that neither side necessarily has lush green grass. I have thought of my own camper as being too small once we build the family up...do you find the SMB is at least of adequate size for a family of 4+2? Does your layout provide sleeping for everybody inside, or do the girls prefer the tent?

Spence

[jammyauto]

The SMB is adequate size for the whole family for our needs. The most time we've ever spent together in the van is 2 weeks. The longer we stay in the van it seems the smaller it gets. Our current sleeping arrangement is the girls sleep in the penthouse and my wife and I sleep downstairs. I'm currently considering a custom off road trailer that would carry our 14ft RIB boat and have a frame around it that would mount a RTT on top for the girls. We would all enjoy a little more privacy.

[Carl]

I am really struggling to like the look of a sprinter! A real bad looking van which looks like a delivery truck. If a little lift, larger tires, etc.... it may look better. I do like the platform though. My last VW was an 87 weekender, which was under powered, less than reliable, no syncro. I also hear that the westfalia is smaller, and to get one in "like new" shape you are at cost of a 2-3 year old SMB?

Being on the east coast, I rarely see either for sale which is also causing a slow decision.

any other feedback is welcome!

[T.Low]

I was hoping to be able to afford an All Rad someday. I figured that by the time (if ever) I outgrow the Astro's space, they would actually be available in N.A.

Personally, its the only Sprinter I like.

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee258/wannahuckmastinky/L_4xvg11_6b.jpg

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee258/wannahuckmastinky/081252e9a606a42295439800eb793f51_2.jpg

[77blazerchalet]

..any other feedback is welcome!Want your camper medium or rare? Chalets & Casa Grandes are under $10 grand for the top end so far, the latest eBay one (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Blazer-Chalet-4x4-AWESOME-1977-CHEVROLET-K5-BLAZER-CHALET-4x4-RARE-WOW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQha shZitem20acbcfe10QQitemZ140337020432QQptZUSQ5fCars Q5fTrucks) went for $9,900, beating the previous sale to a non-dealer record (http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/lotdetails.aspx?aid=283&ln=37&pop=0&it=1) by a few hundred dollars. Put a little more money into one at that level to make it 'perfect', and you still have a lot of leftover budget money. 49 of 'em in various shape for sale in our 'current list' (http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=104021239372740342517.00046a36d16106e8c8f86&source=embed&ll=52.05249,-59.0625&spn=164.731004,360&z=1) around the country.

And they do tow things if you beef up the suspension a bit.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=29152&d=1243883686