VW Westfalia advice.

[stclair]

Hi everyone- I've been following this site for a while, but never post. After thinking it over for a while, my wife and I have decided to purchase a VW Westfalia for the many adventures we have planned. We've recently sold our Landrover, and still have our Jeep, but really think a pop top van would be a great way to travel. We cannot swing a Syncro, so that's out. My question is, which is more suitable for long journeys, a pre 1979 air cooled Westy, or a pre 1991 water cooled Westy? I've had 3 older Bugs when I was MUCH younger, and I'm inclined to go that route. However, are the Vanagons more practical? Any opinions/advice would be appreciated. Thanks!-Colin

[Bike_Mech]

I'll comment on what I have learned from my own experiences. I have owned three baywindows 69,70, and 77. The 69 and 70 were virtually the same, neither pop-tops but had the camper interior. The 77 was my love. Pop-top westfalia, not with the stove. The motor is the type iv 2.0. It put out about 80 some horsepower and I loved it. BUT almost all the parts for the type iv engine, while they maybe stronger and more durable, are atleast twice as expensive as their 1600 counterpart. My wife and I drove that car all over the west coast for the three years we owned her. She, the 77, was stolen and totaled by a meth-head last year. Anyways I loved the simplicity of the fuel injection and being able to repair almost anything on the side of the road. Which can be said for most aircooled vw's. I never ventured much into the water cooled world of vw's except to look at eurovans, but the need for a pickup took me a different direction, for now.

A bunch of good tech info on the baywindow vans can be found here:
http://www.ratwell.com/

and a good community at:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/

Good luck
-Chris

[slooowr6]

I had a 86 Westy, it's a 2.1 water cooled engine. It's a great platform for travel it packs a lot for the given foot print. We loved our van but just don't have enough time to go through all the parts that need attestation and the chair is killing my wife's back on long runs. We sold it after 6000 miles.
Make sure you go though the posts on samba and makes all the necessary upkeep. It's a great little van with a lot to offer. I still miss my van.

[ntsqd]

Another net forum that will likely bear some fruit: http://www.shoptalkforums.com/index.php

And one that has an almost bewildering array of forums, most of which have no application at all - but one or two might yield a nugget here and there:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/

[stclair]

Thanks for all of the input guys. Bike Mech, sorry to hear about the loss of your '77. Your comment about the "roadside repairs" is the reason I think I'm leaning towards an air cooled model. My next question is, are there any years/models to stay away from? Thanks again guys.-Colin

[spencyg]

I find it humerous that roadside repair-ability is a selling point, being that I probably would run out of fingers if I've counted the amount of times I've seen these things on the side of the road with the driver in the middle of one repair or another. How about buying a rig that doesn't require roadside repairs?? :)

Spence

[stclair]

I find it humerous that roadside repair-ability is a selling point, being that I probably would run out of fingers if I've counted the amount of times I've seen these things on the side of the road with the driver in the middle of one repair or another. How about buying a rig that doesn't require roadside repairs?? :)

Spence


Hmmm. I kinda figure any used camper van that is in my price range is going to have an issue of some sort eventually. I have only basic mechanical skills, so I figure a basic motor is best for me. One thing I forgot to mention is that my wife and I have traveled quite a bit to Central and South America. If we ever decide to drive south, we'd like to draw as little attention as possible. That said, a big RV would draw lots, where little VW vans and other smallish import vans seem to be everywhere. I'd love a nice Sportsmobile, but it just doesn't make sense for us. If you have any other recomendations, please I'm open to anything. Thanks for the advice.

[spencyg]

What's your budget? For relatively little money you could find a conversion van with modern conveniences like fuel injection, good headlights, a 70MPH capability... :) If I had $5k to spend, I'd probably look for a early 90's Ford E350 van with the 7.3L IDI diesel and build the interior to suit.

Spence

[stclair]

What's your budget? For relatively little money you could find a conversion van with modern conveniences like fuel injection, good headlights, a 70MPH capability... :) If I had $5k to spend, I'd probably look for a early 90's Ford E350 van with the 7.3L IDI diesel and build the interior to suit.

Spence

Absolutely an option, however I'm not sure how handy I would be with a more complicated 90's diesel. From what I've read, diesel fuel is very available outside of the US. However, how common are parts outside of the US for a 90's Ford van? I'm not sure. I also feel that really flashy, though cool, is not a good thing when traveling some places. I'll look into it for sure, and thanks for the idea. So how would you go about getting the equipment to outfit an interior for a camper? How much of a modification is that? Thanks again.

[hinoranger]

The Type II Microbuses are simple, relatively easy to work on and find parts for in most of the world, but you'll have to decide for yourself whether it can meet your mechanical and comfort requirements.

Might be hard to recommend the Vanagon for travel in the rest of the Americas; the early air-cooled ones would probably be the way to go, or the somewhat rare and even more underpowered 4cyl. diesel version. The watercooled flat four has it's share of weaknesses and was never sold south of the border. The cost of preparing a watercooled Vanagon for a long trip without access to special parts and Vanagon-savvy mechanics is probably the same as a good Ford van or Toyota pick-up.

The only real solution for long-term Vanagon ownership is arguably one of the engine swaps, Subaru and I4 VW at the low end, Ford ZTEC,VW TDI, or other Subaru options at the high end.

[Herbie]

The only real solution for long-term Vanagon ownership is arguably one of the engine swaps, Subaru and I4 VW at the low end, Ford ZTEC,VW TDI, or other Subaru options at the high end.

Agreed. I wouldn't feel safe pushing either an aircooled or watercooled VW mill on any sort of "expedition" environment. The aircooled are widely used and easy to service, but very underpowered for anything other than commuter duty. The wasserboxer engines have documented problems with the head gaskets and are not widely seen outside Europe and USA.

For a decent mix of power and reliability, I'd recommend Subaru EJ25 (2.5L 4 cylinder). Turbo motors make more power but are harder to transplant and introduce new failure points. EJ33 flat-6 and the newer 3.0 flat-6 are great engines but bigger still and rarer and thus more costly to source/install.

Any EJ series 4-cylinder will be sufficiently powerful and reliable that I would feel comfortable taking it to Central/South America. I'm not sure I'd worry with spares, but I might keep my USA parts rep number handy in case anything really strange broke and needing replacing.

[Grim Reaper]

The Type II Microbuses are simple, relatively easy to work on and find parts for in most of the world, but you'll have to decide for yourself whether it can meet your mechanical and comfort requirements.

Might be hard to recommend the Vanagon for travel in the rest of the Americas; the early air-cooled ones would probably be the way to go, or the somewhat rare and even more underpowered 4cyl. diesel version. The watercooled flat four has it's share of weaknesses and was never sold south of the border. The cost of preparing a watercooled Vanagon for a long trip without access to special parts and Vanagon-savvy mechanics is probably the same as a good Ford van or Toyota pick-up.

The only real solution for long-term Vanagon ownership is arguably one of the engine swaps, Subaru and I4 VW at the low end, Ford ZTEC,VW TDI, or other Subaru options at the high end.

ZTEC would almost make it worth it. The water boxer was a miserable motor. 82 and older were still air cooled. 1.8 and 2.0 is what I cut my teeth on. First car was a 73 412 wagon. Dad had a 72 914 2.0

Great vid of a ZTEC converted Westy Syncro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B9_FeHKlXE

http://www.bostig.com/

[hinoranger]

The water boxer was a miserable motor. 82 and older were still air cooled. 1.8 and 2.0 is what I cut my teeth on. First car was a 73 412 wagon. [/url]

might be just a little harsh, the 2.1 can be tamed and there are people who get 175k+ out of a waterboxer in fairy hard driving, it's just that the learning curve to do that is about the same as the Subaru conversion, a motor you can buy in the junkyard for $500 or less.

[spencyg]

Absolutely an option, however I'm not sure how handy I would be with a more complicated 90's diesel. From what I've read, diesel fuel is very available outside of the US. However, how common are parts outside of the US for a 90's Ford van? I'm not sure. I also feel that really flashy, though cool, is not a good thing when traveling some places. I'll look into it for sure, and thanks for the idea. So how would you go about getting the equipment to outfit an interior for a camper? How much of a modification is that? Thanks again.

I wouldn't think a 2WD (we ARE talking 2WD, right?) Econoline van would generate much attention south of de' border....certainly not any more than a VW microbus. If you had a solid mechanical platform to start from, and have a bit of woodworking prowess and a little bit of mechanical skills, you could take a contractor van and turn it into a livable camper. It wouldn't have a pop-top, but this might not be a bad thing if you're really concerned with "low key". If you don't think a complete interior retrofit is the right direction for you to be taking, find a decent E150 conversion van already fitted out with a bed. Get a ARB compressor cooler, some camping gear, remove the running boards, and call it a day. If it isn't apparent that I'm not a fan (in any way) of VW products, than I obviously have been behaving myself... :ylsmoke:

Good luck.

Spence

[dlbrunner]

I had a late 70's westy that I lived traveled out of for 2 months. In camp it was great, thats about it.

It was scary to drive, it constantly broke down. I have a special hatred for type 4 VW air cooled engines, they were designed by satan himself and forged in the bowels of hell by evil bitter underperforming auto workers.

I originally had an 1800 in it, but when that engine needed a rebuild, I decided to replace with a porche 914 2.0L. It was a good improvement, but still junk.

Learn how to adjust valves otherwise you will have a cracked head.

Plan on long shifts behind the wheel in the mountains, make sure your bowels are clear before driving in wind.

It was nothing more than a money pit that was fun to entertain guests in the front yard.

I don't mean to diss so bad, but I had problem after problem with that westy, perhaps if I was a more patient man, with that special "gift" for living in harmony with vw's I may have liked the van better.

On the other hand the interior was great, the bed upstairs and down were comfy, the stove was great, the little sink, etc...

My gut told me it was a mistake to sell an 89 Toyota pick up in favor of a westy for a trip to AK. It was a huge mistake, being we never made it past seattle.

[luk4mud]

I owned a 1995 VW Winnie edition. Put 30k miles on it, sold it for more than I paid for it. ONLY vehicle that has ever happned with. Still miss it, though. The older ones are even cooler than mine was.

[Icebox]

Here you go. And it's cheap. And relatively close. Take it to a GOOD DIESEL mechanic first (many are mobile) to diagnose the "runs hot" issue as that may mean a new/rebuilt motor. pretty stealth for the 3rd world though. Could tow the Jeep too.

http://norfolk.craigslist.org/cto/1245391405.html

84-91 6.9-7.3 IDI Diesels were and are the simplest of the bunch much like your analogy of type 1 vs. type 4 VW. But beware--- coolant cavitation ---
preventable but common. Only fix is to sleeve the block. Coolant in the oil is a tell tale sign.

Good Luck.

[Icebox]

Besides, I'd rather build it in my driveway than fix it on the side of the road. Does that sound right???

[Mighty Dodge Ram]

I also owned a '69 and '70 Westphalia. Contrary to some of the other experiences listed, I loved both of them. Equipted with snow tires, I drove all over Alberta/BC in the middle of winter, including very steep fire roads in 2nd gear, without problems. I inched my way down and up narrow trails to access beaches. The secret...slow and methodical. They have remarkably good ground clearance with little to hang up, and with the mounting of better tires (today's Geolanders?) can get you into some of the same places my Dodge 4x4 can.

The later models had more modern camping gear, but by using the same cabinetry (well built, by the way), one could easily modernize an earlier Westy. The best feature was by far the ability to pass through from the front seat, stand up under the pop top, and then pull the seat out into its very comfy bed configuartion. And the jalouise (sp?) windows are still very cool.

Would I go back to one after owning a more powerful truck with 4x4? Probably not. I would look at a Sportsmobile first. But if you're OK with the limitations of the VW, it just might work for you. Cheers :beer:

[chrslefty]

if i could give some food for thought if its not to late.
Ive owned a couple of VWvans .the one i liked the most was defiantly the 76westy pop up.on that same note i was happy the day i got ride of it .here's the thing . if ur a tall person any kind of set time is gonna be a act of pain . leg room was defiantly a limiting factor on a long trip .think of someone driving hot nails into the top of your knees . lots of fun .and driving in a cross wind was interesting to say the lest . one of the few vehicle the you can have the steering wheel turned 1/2 way to one side and still be going in a straight line :wings: . other wise it was great for camping and the f/i 2.0 was great on gas . didn't have to adjust the a/f in the mountains and would do 70 all day long in the flats .
on that same note my buddys 80 something westy was awesome when it ran ,lol it had the diesel . but the lay out was great and the driving position was way better . the seat could recline and it was more car like .
if i was gonna get another id defiantly get on from the late 80'sicro style and put a subie motor in it and have a blast .

[jammyauto]

If you want something that is simple, has parts availability almost everywhere and is very reliable I'd suggest building a turbo diesel vanagon. Not a TDI just regular TD. TDI is great but parts are hard to get outside the USA. I've owned somewhere around 100 VW busses in the last 20 years and driven probably a million miles in them. I've driven my stock 1960 single cab across country at 55mph 4 times and around 20 other trips that were coast to coast in VW buses. I've changed clutches in rest areas before. I would not buy any van that 1972 to 1985 unless it had a different engine from stock.

BTW I love my '05 Ford diesel SMB but it has left me on the side of the road 3 times in the first 15k miles and once was in mexico. I'm very nervous about taking it to mex because if it breaks down there is almost nobody there who has the proper skills or tools let alone parts to work on this van. I travel with a pretty comprehensive tool set and spares as well as being a full time professional mechanic (not a deisel mechanic however).

I own both and I can tell you that there is no clear winner in the Ford vs. VW debate. It's as simple as that. They both have thier positives and negatives.

I'm leaving a week from today to drive from souther CA to Vermont via Yellowstone and then southern Canada. I'm taking the SMB due to the so much better than the VW air conditioning!

[stclair]

Thanks so much everyone for all of the great and very helpful information. My wife and I are starting to narrow our search. I hope to find something soon. Looking forward to a few trips! Thanks!

[Antichrist]

I had a '73 (this was during the 2 years of the past 35 when a Land Rover wasn't my daily driver). I was working on it shortly before I got rid of it, replacing the right rear tail light. The reatining screw nuts were recessed in the plastic housing to keep from rotating. Of course it didn't work, and in the course of trying to wedge something in to hold one, my hand slipped and I ripped open my finger. Because of the built up frustration with the vechicle over the past two years, I took a ballpeen hammer to it and did $350 worth of body damage to the rear corner. I felt great, and really stupid at the same time.

When it was running, it was great fun to drive.

[stclair]

I had a '73 (this was during the 2 years of the past 35 when a Land Rover wasn't my daily driver). I was working on it shortly before I got rid of it, replacing the right rear tail light. The reatining screw nuts were recessed in the plastic housing to keep from rotating. Of course it didn't work, and in the course of trying to wedge something in to hold one, my hand slipped and I ripped open my finger. Because of the built up frustration with the vechicle over the past two years, I took a ballpeen hammer to it and did $350 worth of body damage to the rear corner. I felt great, and really stupid at the same time.

When it was running, it was great fun to drive.


Thanks for the advice man. It's so funny, I felt the same way about my Land Rover. When it was running, sooo nice. However, it was rarely running well. The day I sold it I felt such relief. Anyway, I hope I'm not asking for trouble and a repeat performance if I purchase a VW camper. Not using the Land Rover as it was meant to be was very disappointing. Too bad there aren't more camper van options(affordable to us). It just seems to be the best fit for our needs. If only Jeep made one. I have never been disappointed with any of the Jeeps I've owned.

[BIGdaddy]

Thanks for the advice man. It's so funny, I felt the same way about my Land Rover. When it was running, sooo nice. However, it was rarely running well. The day I sold it I felt such relief. Anyway, I hope I'm not asking for trouble and a repeat performance if I purchase a VW camper. Not using the Land Rover as it was meant to be was very disappointing. Too bad there aren't more camper van options(affordable to us). It just seems to be the best fit for our needs. If only Jeep made one. I have never been disappointed with any of the Jeeps I've owned.

My dad has one, and really likes it, but its a toy vehicle and not very reliable. Very cool cars, though. His is maintained by GoWesty, so maybe its a problem with that specific dealers quality of work.

I wouldn't want to have a car like that again, something that is needing so much work, to simply operate as intended...lol. What If your refridgerator was needing work every weekend to keep it running? would you sell it or simply go to Lowe's and get another one? I'd sell whatever I needed to, to raise money to buy a fridge that worked all day/every day. Same with vehicles, I have no respect for a vehicle that has to be maintained so much. Toss 'em...lol.

They have an excellent following, though. And I hear the subaru conversions turn out a VERY nice compromise of performance and reliability. I'd be very interested in a DOKA, subaru powered, synchro-camper. :coffee:

[Beachboyy]

stclair - Thanks for starting this thread. My wife and I are looking for the exact same vehicle. Would love to have a westy syncro with a subaru conversion but being realistic I know that is not going to happen. Again thanks and hope you find what you are looking for.

[kjp1969]

I haven't read all the posts, but I grew up camping across the western states in an '81, and would discourage anyone without a love of those old things or without considerable patience and mechanical aptitude from ownership. Be good to yourself and get a well maintained Toyota.

[Sleeping Dog]

What's your budget? For relatively little money you could find a conversion van with modern conveniences like fuel injection, good headlights, a 70MPH capability... :) If I had $5k to spend, I'd probably look for a early 90's Ford E350 van with the 7.3L IDI diesel and build the interior to suit.

Spence

I need to agree with Spence. As much as I love Westies and I'm likely to someday surrender to the siren call of one, there are lots of Ford/Chev/Dodge conversion vans and Class B motorhomes that will be cheaper to buy initially and will be more dependable down the road.

Now if I was looking for a Westie, I'd strongly think about one that didn't have the waterboxer, meaning a Z-tek, Jetta, Subaru or VW/Audi diesel conversion. Recognizing of course a conversion has its own list of potential problems.

Jim

[SC-Surfer]

I've watched this thread for a little while and finally had to jump in in defense of the Vanagon. Having had a '69 westy, a '79 7 passenger, and now an '89 syncro westy, I have to say I am more than happy with it. It has been extremely reliable, drives well, and will go almost anywhere. I'm sure there are plenty of vans out there that are worthless, but then again, most 20 year old cars are. However, a well maintained and cared for westy can be a pleasure to own. They are well designed and built, very comfortable for their size, and there is nothing else quite like them on the road.
They have a short wheelbase, amazing ground clearance for a van, and will fit in some tight places.
There's nothing like pulling in to camp after dark, popping up the top, making dinner, and crawling into bed without ever going outside.
As for repairs and mechanical issues, they are like any other vehicle. How many CJ or Rover owners out there still drive a STOCK vehicle 20+ years old? Most if not all of the reliability issues and mechanical failures can be avoided with good service and maintenance (like every other vehicle). It can be difficult to find a mechanic who really knows the Vanagon, but they are priceless. Most general mechanics will be able to provide basic service and keep you on the road, but the good ones can make the difference between loving and hating your Vanagon. I think the Vanagon often gets a bad rap because many owners either don't really care or don't understand the value of quality service. Who would take their Rover to the guy down the street who works on American cars all day?

The only hard part is finding one that has been well cared for. They are out there but it takes some patience and is well worth the wait. My only regret is not buying my Syncro 20 years ago.

Ok...I'll get off my soapbox now...

[T.Low]

I find it humerous that roadside repair-ability is a selling point, being that I probably would run out of fingers if I've counted the amount of times I've seen these things on the side of the road with the driver in the middle of one repair or another. How about buying a rig that doesn't require roadside repairs?? :)

Spence

When I was strongly considering a Syncro Westfalia, my mechanic brother in law referred to them as Syncro Willfailyas. (he claims it was an original spontaneous term that he's not heard before, just inspired at that moment of reflection upon his Australia trip in a Kombi)

Astro vans are common in Mexico, and descrete. Astro campers, however, are rare, period, but can be found. Knock on wood, I've gotten 21,000 trouble free miles out of my '03. (Many of which were off pavement and more than a few were easy 4x4 trails.) Not a huge hike in price for AWD like you'll find with the Syncro.

My Astro van has been everything I hoped it would be. Thats the main thing.

Out of your two choices, I liked the Vanagon better.

[robert]

Like this? :victory:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j16/bajatacoma/IMGP2055.jpg

I restored this one some years ago and it could use a good going over again- I kinda sorta live out of it and carry a lot of stuff in it so some wear and tear is to be expected. My biggest gripes are that it's slow (usually not an issue, but it can get frustrating at times when you need to accelerate or pass) and that it's hot even with the windows down (the heat actually works well if the system is in good shape and you insulate the bus). I guess I'm just getting older, but I miss A/C when it's really hot out.

It will go a pretty amazing amount of places- more than you'd really want to take it- with decent tires (very hard to find properly rated tires in a 14").

I keep talking about buying a full-sized van since it'd give me more room, allow me to carry stuff on top, go faster, etc but I never seem to get around to it. :smiley_drive:

[Christian P.]

quick answer - 1991 Westfalia 2WD. Especially if you want heat.

[Herbie]

Astro vans [...] Not a huge hike in price for AWD like you'll find with the Syncro.


This is one of the key points that keeps me coming back to the Astro/Safari for my build.

There seems to be little to no price premium for AWD on the Astro vans (they're just a bit more rare so you have to be more patient), and the conversion from AWD to 4x4 is cheap, cheap, CHEAP.

The massive jump in price from 2wd to Syncro, and the significant cost adders for retrofitting lockers, etc. are barriers to entry for me. The fact that a 20 year old Syncro Westfalia costs $18k-$25k while a 2WD version can be had in SoCal for $5k-$8k is a real pisser.

As a multi-decade Subaru guy, I spent a lot of time strongly leaning towards a Syncro vanagon because I already have access to lots of Subaru parts and know-how. An EJ22 or EJ33 swap would be cheap and relatively easy for me, but finding a syncro westie to put it into that didn't cost my first born is another matter.

[T.Low]

Don't get me wrong; I really came close to going the VW route. But personally, at the end of the day, I can't see devoting that much attention to maintaining/repairing a man made object; especially one designed and built by someone else. If I have 2 hrs to spend, I want to be on the water or on the trail for an hour 55, not spending time chasing down mechanical issues before I can go ride or paddle. My Gas Gas takes enough of my time with post ride maintainance. My Astro, I ride it hard and put it away wet, for the most part.

If I could get this 5 yrs old instead of 20 yrs old, and the reliability and performance marks were much higher, for $25k or less, that would be my Kona Dawg Primo on the back instead of that old Cannondale hardtail. I love the forward control idea giving you max interior space for a given exterior footprint and wheelbase.

I think they are the coolest looking vehicles on the road.

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee258/wannahuckmastinky/aeswingladder.jpg



End of "to VW or Not to VW" debate; back to "which VW" debate.

[offroadsubie]

being a subaru owner and westfalias fanatic, I thought of getting a syncro and having the conversion to subaru engine made. here's a good website for subaru conversions:
www.vanaru.com

[Beachboyy]

I am in the market for a Vanagon Westy in the Northwest if anyone knows of a good one for sale. $6-8K range. Wish I had the cash for a syncro....maybe someday.

[stclair]

Such great advice from everyone here. So we have narrowed it down to a 1987-1991 Full Camper. Just hunting for the right (rust free) van now. I'll post when we find one. Thanks!

[sanchius]

This is one of the key points that keeps me coming back to the Astro/Safari for my build.

I agree, particularly when you end up with the beauty that you built. I have both a stock '96 Astro and a '87 VW Syncro, both with about 250K miles on them. I've discovered that the Astro vs Vanagon choice has some intangibles involved as well. Here's an updated repost from something I wrote on thesamba.com a while ago

Our Astro does almost everything better than our Syncro; it is way faster, quieter, more comfortable and much more (although not 100%) reliable. I consider the Astro to be a very fast moving appliance that can haul lots of stuff and tow a good sized load. With airbags... Herbie with the lifted 4WD poptop Astro is definitely on the right track.

But, because of the few things that our Syncro does better:
- the cab-forward seating & picture window windshield,
- the z-bed & curtains for stealth naps anywhere,
- and, most importantly, that intangible cool^4 factor,
I always choose to drive the Syncro over the Astro.

While maintaining the Astro is a straight cost-vs-value proposition that will terminate with the Astro getting recycled the instant that ratio exceeds 1.0, I find myself going to illogical lengths to keep our Syncro going. If I'd had the Astro's transmission in/out 5 times in the last 3 months trying to get the rear main seal to hold, it would be gone. If I was looking at a multi-thousand dollar engine conversion just to make the Astro reliable & powerful enough to not be a rolling-roadblock, it would be gone.

Not so with the Syncro. I find myself spending my precious days off researching conversion options and running spreadsheets to map out the process and costs. And having fun doing it. The fact that the Syncro has been given a name while the Astro is just "The Astro" speaks for itself.

The bottom line was that, in spite of all the things the newer van does so much better, I still greatly prefer to drive my Syncro. So much so, in fact, that I choose to set aside good economic judgment and keep the Syncro going long beyond when I would have junked a newer vehicle. And, when we purchase our next car, it'll be the Astro that goes away, not the Syncro.

There's something about these old VW buses...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3033/2816932989_e6f7641bea_o.jpg

[stclair]

Awesome van! I keep coming to the same conclusion. Even though another van might be more practical, I just love these things. I get excited every time I see one on the road.

[mtnbike28]

"But, because of the few things that our Syncro does better:
- the cab-forward seating & picture window windshield,
- the z-bed & curtains for stealth naps anywhere,
- and, most importantly, that intangible cool^4 factor,
I always choose to drive the Syncro over the Astro."

That is why I drool over them too! You summed it up in five lines. PS great looking van!

[Herbie]

Herbie with the lifted 4WD poptop Astro is definitely on the right track.



Just to clarify, my 4x4 Astro camper is at the very earliest stages. The "finished" van belongs to T.Low, and I am shamelessly copying his work. Oddly, I even have the same color van as a base!

But I agree wholeheartedly, the "Astro Westfalia" or "Astrolander", as Tom calls it, hits a sweet spot as far as vans go. The decision for me would have been harder if we could buy new or near-new syncros (for a reasonable price) today....

[pnwkayaker]

Not so with the Syncro. I find myself spending my precious days off researching conversion options and running spreadsheets to map out the process and costs. And having fun doing it. The fact that the Syncro has been given a name while the Astro is just "The Astro" speaks for itself.

The bottom line was that, in spite of all the things the newer van does so much better, I still greatly prefer to drive my Syncro. So much so, in fact, that I choose to set aside good economic judgment and keep the Syncro going long beyond when I would have junked a newer vehicle. And, when we purchase our next car, it'll be the Astro that goes away, not the Syncro.

There's something about these old VW buses...



Same here, except that I've already bought the new Zetec (0 mileage !) and the Bostig kit, hope to have it installed next month :wings:

I have a Syncro Westy 87 that I saved from premature death (the previous owner was pruning it to death, he pulled out anything that wasn't working instead of repairing/upgrading it). I'm on a quest to make it a very reliable expedition vehicle (want to travel with wife and 2 kids in the near future).

I've done lots of mods and upgrades so far, and lots more are coming. As some other Samba member has said, I don't want to tally all the money I've spent on it, however, I know is money well spent (I cannot see myself spending that much money on a Sportsmobile or other camper/expedition vehicle). Fortunately, my wife is very supportive, she loves to go out on the Syncro)

[Paddlevan]

I have had 1 type 2 and 3 vanagons and 7 Subarus (including a brat)
Here are the hard questions
1) if you do a Subaru conversion will you feel comfortably with your wife driving it 100 miles away from you???
2) If you do a Tiico conversion can you get parts south of San Diego??
3) if you add a simple diesel rabbit engine Fastforward CA at least you are safe in Latin america for service
4) do you ever plan on pulling a trailer uphill??
5) Do you have the discipline to get rid of stuff???
7) will 5-7k in system revamps upgrades dent your travel budget
8) Do you want diesel or gas??
9) will you only be traveling with 2 people most of the time??

Answer these questions then choose freely

Paddlevan

[2manytoys]

My son has a 1966 vw bus with a camper conversion and has put 9000 miles on it in the last 3 years. So far (knock on wood) he has never had to work on it on the side of the road or been stranded anywhere. The worst has been a alternator failure. But everything mechanical was gone though Just like you should on any expedition vehicle. With that being said unless you plan driving 55-60 on flat hwy's with no wind. build a full size domestic van. He has offered many times to let me take it but i cant handle driving that slow lol. If you do build a VW I'd stay with a pre. 1972 with the bug style engine parts are available about anywhere that way ( the air cooled bug was still made in Mexico until 2003 and the bay style bus in Brazil until 2002 if i remember right)
heres a site about some overland travels in a bus http://www.vwvagabonds.com/

sons camper:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2771/4018188051_947ef9e75a.jpg

[Antelope]

Just for reference, I've had a subaru swaped Westy for 5 years and some 30K miles and the only problem I've had is an alternator and alternator/ PS belt. Subaru conversions are all about the install. i did mine myself went over every detail and it's good, I let my wife take trips all the time. Now the rest of the vanagon requires constant attention to keep in tip top shape and that's not going to change its 20+ years old.

[Paddlevan]

Just for reference, I've had a subaru swaped Westy for 5 years and some 30K miles and the only problem I've had is an alternator and alternator/ PS belt. Subaru conversions are all about the install. i did mine myself went over every detail and it's good, I let my wife take trips all the time. Now the rest of the vanagon requires constant attention to keep in tip top shape and that's not going to change its 20+ years old.
I love my subies glad the conversion worked out great!!!

[oneuglynerd]

This is my first post but I think I can chime in as a owner of 4 westies and a VW westy rental business. www.retrobusrental.com . I personally wouldn't do it, although I love these old buses and all their charm there are a limitless amount of obstacles that you could potentially be up against. Availability of parts and qualified mechanics would be two of the greatest issues with any older bus and especially the 1973 and above models. Anything below that year will get you a bug motor and although there will be more parts and they will be cheaper it's not like you can just walk into pep boys and buy them. Also with this vehicle being a potential expedition use vehicle that issue will be compounded as you get to more remote locations. These vehicles can be reliable, but you really have to know how to drive them and not tear up the transmissions. If you do tear up a transmission forget even trying to get it fixed. There are very few shops that will even consider breaking open the case of one. Legroom is going to be tough if your over 6ft tall and of course the weak heaters and lack of a/c can be uncomfortable. They actually did come with an a/c option in their later years but that will rob even more power from a very underpowered vehicle. As a weekend camper or even small trips its a great vehicle to stay close to home in. Please don't get me wrong they can be used for your purpose but I wouldn't even consider it if you weren't prepared to have someone on standby with all your parts that is willing to send them to you overnight if needed. Also learn the basics, get the Robert bentley manual and the how to keep your volkswagon alive books so you can fix them yourself. As for their off road potential go to youtube an you will see them doing some amazing things that some 4x4's would have trouble doing. I've read a lot of people saying get one and get a Subaru motor put in. That is wishful thinking as A. it will cost a fortune (the last one I saw was going for 50k and B. No mechanic will touch it except the guy that put it in. Considering your purpose for this car that probably wouldn't work. I wish I could say do it but I think you'd have more trouble than fun. Good luck and if you have any questions please feel free to contact me. I can definitely help you out.

[Navman]

I have an '80 Westy that I've owned for 1/2 of its 30 years. When it was a daily driver I was completely comfortable with it's reliability and capabilities. Since I haven't driven it much in the last 3 years I've lost some of that confidence. I got to the point where I almost convinced myself that I couldn't go further than my driveway unless I exchanged it for a fully loaded $100k Sportsmobile.

Then I read the last issue of Overland Journal and the article of where they drove Tuk-tuks (!!) the length of the Karakorum highway. It made me laugh. If they can do that, then I think I can still manage taking the VW on a trip to Baja.

I am not a mechanic, but I know my vehicle well. It is well maintained and almost everything has been replaced now with 220k miles on it. Sure, it is good for a breakdown and tow every two years, but that is what AAA premium membership is for. The downside is that parts are becoming harder to find, and I imagine the number of knowledgeable mechanics will start to dwindle as the years go on.

And what's all this complaining about driving Vanagon in wind?? That is the most exciting thing about driving them. Well, next to passing Ferraris on the freeway. Driving Vanagons in a strong cross-wind is the best way to practice your countersteering technique. Add a couple of big rigs to the mix and it gets real exciting.

I am really glad I have a simple air-cooled Vanagon. If I was starting from scratch though, I would agree with 2aroundtheworld(?) and look for a '91 2wd.

[justfred]

I enjoyed reading this thread, as I've run through the same questions myself (and still do!).

I had an 87 Westy, bought it specifically for a two month 4000 mile camping trip around the western US. I paid top dollar - $15,000 - and got it newly refurbished from a shop in LA that's known for them - sort of a discount GoWesty. It worked out great, though it was slightly underpowered, it got great gas mileage and worked great to camp in. The fridge never worked well, nor did the air conditioner. And at least once I scraped the bottom on rocks. The entire trip I was a little nervous about reliability but other than occasional oil light panic, I never had any problems. Kept it a few years, used it for weekend trips and loaned to a friend who was semi-homeless for a year. Had the leaks and battery gremlins fixed a few times. I too would buy a new (couple of years old) syncro if they existed.

Thing is, it always felt like a tin can. I'm used to the solid feel of the Land Rover (Discovery, previously other Series IIa vehicles). There's nothing different about the syncro that would make it feel more solid.

I ended up selling it because I didn't have the driveway space and I liked the Pinzgauer more, tho it's been less useful for anything other than taking up driveway space. Still feel like that was a mistake, but sometimes you have to go with love over usefulness.

Lately I take the Disco on camping trips, but I'm not happy with the fact that I can't sleep in it and frankly it doesn't have that much cargo space, especially when loaded with tent, mattress pads, coolers, food bins, shade structure, etc.

My current plan, if and when I can afford it, is one of the following:

-Get the Pinz running well again. It seems when I drive it regularly it tends to be flawless, but when I let it sit for a couple of months it gets cranky, especially battery/starter/gas tank/carb. In any case, nothing a few dead presidents can't fix. Then find a thrashed or wrecked Westy and mount the poptop, beds, and some of the camping gear in the back of the Pinz. My wife will hate it, I'm sure, she already dislikes riding in it and having to climg into the back. Maybe she can fly out and meet me at the camping area. But otherwise it would be perfect for off-highway camping. I'm hesitant to take it to Mexico lately, as I've heard stories of military-like vehicles being commandeered by the Federales. But the political situation south of the border is a whole other thread.

(or)

-Sell the Pinz, get a Sprinter, build it out as a camper. So much for the 4x4, in exchange I'd get great gas mileage, solid boring diesel, and lots and lots and lots of space for builtins and other stuff.

(or)

-Invent and sell a product that everyone needs (I never dream of winning the lottery), then get a nice Adventurewagon. And/or a Grumman Albatross.

[Wonderland]

We have a early 70's Westie in addition to our truck.

I do love the Westie, but it is more of nostalgia thing than anything. If I had all the time (and money) in the world. It would be my choice to travel in. A "Take it Easy" form of travel.

However, being an American with very little time off so to speak. I have to haul *** to get some place for vacation. I take the truck every time over the Westie. I need the power and speed of the truck.

Ultimate for me would a Sportsmobile, power speed, & Westie layout...maybe one day!

Used Syncros are waaaay over priced, saw one for over $100K!!! You got to be kidding me!

[Navman]

We have a early 70's Westie in addition to our truck.

I do love the Westie, but it is more of nostalgia thing than anything. If I had all the time (and money) in the world. It would be my choice to travel in. A "Take it Easy" form of travel.

However, being an American with very little time off so to speak. I have to haul *** to get some place for vacation. I take the truck every time over the Westie. I need the power and speed of the truck.

Ultimate for me would a Sportsmobile, power speed, & Westie layout...maybe one day!

Used Syncros are waaaay over priced, saw one for over $100K!!! You got to be kidding me!

I totally agree and that's why I haven't used mine much lately. It's easier, faster, and more comfortable to take the LR or Subaru for those quick trips. Although it sure is nice when you arrive at a campsite in the dark and you don't have to fumble with a tent.

I've been dreaming of a SMB for years, but I just don't know anymore. Maybe if they were 1/2 the price and got twice the gas mileage. I would really love to see VW do a modern version of the Vanagon.

[skysix]

The massive jump in price from 2wd to Syncro, and the significant cost adders for retrofitting lockers, etc. are barriers to entry for me. The fact that a 20 year old Syncro Westfalia costs $18k-$25k while a 2WD version can be had in SoCal for $5k-$8k is a real pisser.

Check out the link below

1992 1.9TD Synchro with (I think) 16" wheels and Westphalia conversion for about $18k in Germany.

Not much of a saving when all is said and done, but 16" Synchro's are rare. If you use the same site search function for VW / T3 / 4x4 / manual / Diesel there are about 40 hits. Some as low as $3k. Buy then convert using a scrapped Westphalia....

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html?lang=en&id=124479168&pageNumber=2&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=searchNetGrossPrice&sortOption.sortOrder=ASCENDING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=25200&makeModelVariant1.modelId=44%2C45%2C46&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=false&vehicleCategory=Car&segment=Car&transmission=MANUAL_GEAR&siteId=GERMANY&features=FOUR_WHEEL_DRIVE&damageUnrepaired=NO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&export=ALSO_EXPORT&customerIdsAsString=&categories=Van&categories=OffRoad&tabNumber=3

[Wonderland]

I totally agree and that's why I haven't used mine much lately. It's easier, faster, and more comfortable to take the LR or Subaru for those quick trips. Although it sure is nice when you arrive at a campsite in the dark and you don't have to fumble with a tent.

I've been dreaming of a SMB for years, but I just don't know anymore. Maybe if they were 1/2 the price and got twice the gas mileage. I would really love to see VW do a modern version of the Vanagon.

Oh the VW is great to fart around in. Love it for that. Just use it to cruise around, however long road trips are a fricken pain if you are in a hurry, which typically I am. I just want to get there. I need to cruise at 75-80 not 50. :sombrero:

The modern version would be the Toyota HiAce 4WD. I would take that over a Sportsmobile, too bad we can't get them here.

My buddy did score a gas Ford E150 4WD for $17K, it doesn't do too bad on gas. While it isn't a setup like an RV, it does work. All you really need is a sleeping platform or a foldout seat that converts into a bed, a camp stove and your done.


$80K for a Syncro! What are these guys smoking!? You can pick up a used Sportsmobile for $60K

http://www.gowesty.com/vehicle_details.php?id=1241

[T.Low]

I totally agree and that's why I haven't used mine much lately. It's easier, faster, and more comfortable to take the LR or Subaru for those quick trips. Although it sure is nice when you arrive at a campsite in the dark and you don't have to fumble with a tent.


I would really love to see VW do a modern version of the Vanagon.


I am of the same thinking as you guys. So I went with the Astro build. It cruises nicely at 80 with the ATs on, a little looser with the MTs.

While I like the interior room of the SMB, I simply didn't want to drive a full size van around in the tighter Washington mountain trails and downtown to the micro breweries, etc. I like the sporty feel and nimbleness of the Astro.


As much as I like the "modern vanagon version" concept, the reality is it would have a $60k price tag and I'm discouraged with modern VW reliability. If I'm going to pay that much, I'd like to see a van on a new Tacoma platform with all its lockers, low range, etc.

[CSG]

Finding a two-wheel drive Pleasure Way Traverse offers much of the best of both worlds. Mine is built on a 2002 E250 Ford chassis and reliably gets 16-18 MPG with the 5.4 and 3:73 rear end. I've been debating doing a 4x4 conversion on it but am coming closer to just getting a series 100 LC/LX for those back country trips the van won't get me into.

Having to do nothing more than park and pop the top (and I don't even always do that) is worth a LOT for those short 1-3 day trips. No set-up, no take down. The van has a refer, stove, heater, pressurized water and a comfy bed (a second is in the pop-up).

You can find them for much better prices (when you can find them) than Sportsmobiles but they are two-wheel drives until you do a conversion. If I were to sell mine, I suspect I could get $23-24k almost as soon as it hit craigslist. And mine has less than 47k miles.

http://pleasureway.com/models_ford_traverse.php

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2670/4123630909_9a16654000_o.jpg

[stclair]

quick answer - 1991 Westfalia 2WD. Especially if you want heat.

Picking up a 1988 2WD Westfalia this week. We'll see. Nervous excitment, but that's the best kind.

[stclair]

So we flew out to California a few weeks ago, and picked up our 1988 Westfalia. We took a couple weeks off to drive it back to VA. It was a blast ! I can't wait to take it out on another long trip. We're thinking about taking 6 weeks this summer to go up to New England, and then go West. Between now and then, we'll be adding a few things to it. Van camping is great !

[vwexpeditioner]

good luck with the 88 westy. i have no experience with the later vw stuff but i can tell you my 57' bus with westy interior and some personal mods has done me well. i have built the whole thing from a shell and it helps to know your rig. i did 4 weeks and 6000 miles with no real problems or any roadside events. also many weekend trips of 1000 miles or less. i think the thing is awsome and would suggest any vw pre1970. (no experience with the newer ones.) i know for a fact full sized american vans don't go where i do (to big). although i travel at 60mph i see the same vehicles passing me 3 to 4 times on a long trip. besides where's the fire your on vacation for crying out loud.


http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/632763.jpg
jared

www.backroadbus.com

[Navman]

So we flew out to California a few weeks ago, and picked up our 1988 Westfalia. We took a couple weeks off to drive it back to VA. It was a blast ! I can't wait to take it out on another long trip. We're thinking about taking 6 weeks this summer to go up to New England, and then go West. Between now and then, we'll be adding a few things to it. Van camping is great !

Congratulations! And smart move coming out to CA to get one. They can be more expensive, but usually not much if any rust.

Mine has been from Key West to Northern Vermont and all through the West. It's done quite a few long trips. When you're gone for more than a few days you realize how great these things really are. You don't have to pack and unpack every day. Just pop the top and drop the top.

I've been looking for an 86-90 to replace my '80 but every time I look at one, I realize how good mine really is. I think I'm going to keep mine and maybe redo the interior. I think it's good for another 30 years.

[stclair]

I agree with NAVMAN. It was so nice to pull into a camping spot, pop the top, and call it done. I'll keep my Jeep, or some type of SUV for local stuff. However, anything more than a night or two, I'll be taking the Westfalia. It's incredible how well this thing is laid out. Other than a few small mods, I'm not going to mess with it. It does need tires, so I think I'll upgrade. Also I'll add another battery, and an inverter. Go Westy sells a swing out bumper that I like as well. Anyway, here it is in Joshua Tree our second day with it. Thanks again to everyone for the advise.

C:\Users\owner\Pictures\Westy 1st Trip\115.JPG

[stclair]

OK here it is.

[Christian P.]

Congratulations! I have a 86 Westfalia Syncro myself...

More here:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17010&highlight=westfalia+syncro

[T.Low]

I agree with NAVMAN. It was so nice to pull into a camping spot, pop the top, and call it done. I'll keep my Jeep, or some type of SUV for local stuff. However, anything more than a night or two, I'll be taking the Westfalia. It's incredible how well this thing is laid out. Other than a few small mods, I'm not going to mess with it. It does need tires, so I think I'll upgrade. Also I'll add another battery, and an inverter. Go Westy sells a swing out bumper that I like as well. Anyway, here it is in Joshua Tree our second day with it. Thanks again to everyone for the advise.

C:\Users\owner\Pictures\Westy 1st Trip\115.JPG


Awesome. Luv those pop tops. (thumbs up).

[3konas]

For those that don't find themselves in the VW Bus/Vanagon mentality of..."It's the journey...Man!". http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/images/smilies/costumed-smiley-007.gif http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/images/smilies/victory.gif There are other alternatives, and I'm sure these have been covered here on the Portal, but I will share mine.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll195/3konas/Syncro/IMG_9280.jpg
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll195/3konas/Syncro/CIMG0055.jpg

I chose to do the Bostig Engineering Zetec conversion. It just made more sense to me over the other options. They are currently finishing up there Turbo to offer as an option, which at first I wanted, but after putting roughly 15k on this I'm very happy with the power. It's a different van now. For example: Stevens Pass with the old motor 45mph avg. Zetec I can do 70 if I choose to. But I may still go Turbo! To have the turbo blow off sound coming from a VW Vanagon...! Plus the turbo is on boost at 1500rpms.

I have had this van for 12 yrs and I entertained getting something else but this van fits me. It's not a Westy. A Westy does not work for me as well. 3 dogs, bikes I like to keep inside, and If I get tired and can't find a cool place to camp, I can pull in to hotel parking lot or side street and not draw attention to me.

It's a work in progress. Dual battery powering ARB fridge, invertor and 12 volts sockets. Playing with the layout inside for a cabinet of some sort that is secure but easily removable, say at camp. I've upgraded the suspension. Installed a de-coupler, TBD, lockers front and rear and I'm now trying to design some rock protection for the motor because the stock rock guard won't fit with the new motor.

These vans are not for everbody. But I think that is why like them.
And if Toyota takes T.Low's idea about putting a van on a Tacoma platform, I would be very interested in that.

Sorry if I jacked this thread, I have a passion for VW Vanagons. Plus I really enjoyed this forum and I wanted to say hi. HI! http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/images/smilies/victory.gif

[3konas]

So we flew out to California a few weeks ago, and picked up our 1988 Westfalia. We took a couple weeks off to drive it back to VA. It was a blast ! I can't wait to take it out on another long trip. We're thinking about taking 6 weeks this summer to go up to New England, and then go West. Between now and then, we'll be adding a few things to it. Van camping is great !

Congrats on your new to you Westy!!

Cheers!

[motrhead]

Our Astro does almost everything better than our Syncro; it is way faster, quieter, more comfortable and much more (although not 100%) reliable. I consider the Astro to be a very fast moving appliance that can haul lots of stuff and tow a good sized load. With airbags... Herbie with the lifted 4WD poptop Astro is definitely on the right track.

While maintaining the Astro is a straight cost-vs-value proposition that will terminate with the Astro getting recycled the instant that ratio exceeds 1.0, I find myself going to illogical lengths to keep our Syncro going. If I'd had the Astro's transmission in/out 5 times in the last 3 months trying to get the rear main seal to hold, it would be gone. If I was looking at a multi-thousand dollar engine conversion just to make the Astro reliable & powerful enough to not be a rolling-roadblock, it would be gone.
]

Wow, I can't believe anyone could call that Astro van torture chamber comfortable?! I drove one for 45 minutes on friday and I still have a sore leg. The footwell on those things is even worse than on a Dodge van. Yes I have driven it quite a bit myself- at least fifteen or twenty thousand kilometers.
I spend a lot of time working on my mother's Safari, and while the engine may be bulletproof, I have replaced so much other stuff on that thing it's stupid. It's sad that such a great job of packaging could be so difficult to live with.
On the other hand, I've never owned a Westfalia, though I have borrowed an early 70's model. It felt like driving a house or a ship, not a car.:088: At least the Vanagon model drives better.
I am the satisfied owner of a couple of high mileage Jetta diesels, and I am always on the lookout for a cheap diesel Westfalia... Yes, I know they are slow. I've owned slow Volvo and Mercedes diesel cars -my Volvo 245 was so slow that the only car I ever passed going uphill was a diesel Westfalia, and I was barely creeping past while trying not to gloat... I'm not really in a hurry when I'm travelling, so a diesel Westy would be just fine for me.
After the last go around replacing the steering column and ignition switch in mom's GMC, I finally realized the engineering in these vans is just too much on the cheap side for me to live with, and that I'm getting to old to put up with uncomfortable vehicles.

[stclair]

Congratulations! I have a 86 Westfalia Syncro myself...

More here:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17010&highlight=westfalia+syncro

Love that Syncro Christian, but it just wasn't in my budget. I think I'll enjoy my 2wd van, and if some day I decide that I just have to have the 4wd, I'll sell my house and buy one. So far, I'm happy....very happy. I'm going to have to get advice from you when we venture outside of the USA. Soon I hope.

[Ranchero]

Congratulations St. Clair - you'll love it!

[Christian P.]

I am the satisfied owner of a couple of high mileage Jetta diesels, and I am always on the lookout for a cheap diesel Westfalia... Yes, I know they are slow. I've owned slow Volvo and Mercedes diesel cars -my Volvo 245 was so slow that the only car I ever passed going uphill was a diesel Westfalia, and I was barely creeping past while trying not to gloat... I'm not really in a hurry when I'm travelling, so a diesel Westy would be just fine for me.
After the last go around replacing the steering column and ignition switch in mom's GMC, I finally realized the engineering in these vans is just too much on the cheap side for me to live with, and that I'm getting to old to put up with uncomfortable vehicles.

Buying a Westfalia Diesel is going to be the biggest mistake of your life...they only sold them for one year (1982) and it wasn't the best year for this model.
Whatever saving you think you will do with the fuel economy will be lost in repairs and frustrations.

The problem with being slow is not just so much for you but for the people around you. They are so slow that it almost becomes a danger on the road.

Life is short. Go for a 1986+.

[jammyauto]

VW Built a Diesel vanagon in every year after '82 but the '82 was the only year a diesel was sold in the US market. The syock 1.6 NA (non turbo) motor put out 49 hp. With this engine 60 mph is sometimes possible, but unlikley unless your going slighty downhill. I drove a '82 Vanagon pickup for quite a while I bought on Ebay Germany and shipped over. Slow is an understatement.
There are still lots of options if you want a vanagon diesel. Buy a gas van converted to diesel or convert one yourself. The options are 1.6 TD, 1.9 TD, 1.9 TDI. I have a few friends with 1.9TDI powered vanagons and they are really nice.

[motrhead]

Buying a Westfalia Diesel is going to be the biggest mistake of your life...they only sold them for one year (1982) and it wasn't the best year for this model.
Whatever saving you think you will do with the fuel economy will be lost in repairs and frustrations.

The problem with being slow is not just so much for you but for the people around you. They are so slow that it almost becomes a danger on the road.

Life is short. Go for a 1986+.

Haha. Where's your sense of adventure?:D I've been driving slow diesels for years, so I'm not too worried about a slow Vanagon. I think we got them for a few more years in Canada.
I've owned a few Volkswagens over the years, and my diesels have been absolutely trouble free. I would much rather work on a VW than a Toyota or a Chev, but that's just me. YMMV.
I avoid freeways, and I have driven slow trucks before so I know what I would be getting myself into. Maybe they aren't perfect for everyone, but I know it will be for me...when I do find that cheap one.
I was already planning to do like jammyauto suggested, and find a dead gas model (and maybe someones leftover diesel parts from a Subaru conversion or something)to put a 1.9 Td into (not TDi).
I have some experience with engine conversions, engine building and fabrication, so this would be right up my alley.
All of my VW ownership has been happy times. On the rare occasions I have had to work on something, it has been reasonably easy to do, unlike with my last (and I mean last) Toyota.

[sanchius]

Wow, I can't believe anyone could call that Astro van torture chamber comfortable?! .... On the other hand, I've never owned a Westfalia, though I have borrowed an early 70's model. It felt like driving a house or a ship, not a car.:088: At least the Vanagon model drives better....
I am the satisfied owner of a couple of high mileage Jetta diesels, and I am always on the lookout for a cheap diesel Westfalia... Yes, I know they are slow. I've owned slow Volvo and Mercedes diesel cars -my Volvo 245 was so slow that the only car I ever passed going uphill was a diesel Westfalia, and I was barely creeping past while trying not to gloat... I'm not really in a hurry when I'm travelling, so a diesel Westy would be just fine for me.

Yeah, you are right about that Astro footwell, it is small. But the rest of the Astro package made that up for me, particularly the bags of power that the Vortec puts out. It was faster than my Jaguar. This looks like a place where we have a different outlook. When I rebuilt the motor on my wife's old Volvo 245-turbo and took it for a high-speed test run from Denver up to Loveland Pass on I-80, the only thing that passed me was a Lamborghini Contach whose doors I had blown off a few miles earlier.

For me, the lack of power in the Vanagon really takes away from the usability of the vehicle. We call it "Vanagon-time", where we stop thinking about how slow we are going and just sit back and cruise. But that gets old after awhile. Even with the final, 90hp, gas 2.1L, it's a rolling roadblock climbing in the mountains. Which is why I am prepping a 240hp Subaru SVX motor to go into it.

The other thing to fix is the noise level, the Vanagon is like a big tin can and needs soundproofing, lots of soundproofing. I've started in with Raammat to dampen the vibrations of the big panel and am looking for a good source for MLV sheets for noise isolation.

Hummmm, I don't seem to have any pics of the astro, but here's some more of the Vanagon near Quandry Peak from a few summers ago...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3126/2598074416_1b6dfc09af_d.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3119/2597242063_5c1e9b7cab_d.jpg

[motrhead]

I agree with you about the power of the Astro van-it's pretty nice. That doesn't make up for the other problems. IMHO.
I've owned Volvos for years. I had a GLT powered 244 that nothing could pass in the mountains, and I have a 740 Turbo now.I always enjoyed kicking butt on the shocked Mustang GT drivers over the mountain passes here. I guess I'm slowing down as I get older (must be the five diesels in a row), and now I'm usually trying to be gentle on my equipment -although I do occasionally open up the 740. When I want to go fast I jump on one of my motorcycles.
I want a camper engine to be reliable and economical, and for me the VW diesel engine is the perfect choice. I would run a turbo, intercooler, and a pyrometer, and I know how to make them last. Fast isn't a prerequisite for this vehicle. YMMV.

[SC-Surfer]

We just came back from 5 weeks in Baja in our Syncro Westy and couldn't be more stoked.!!

[T.Low]

5 wks?!!! You dog! Nice.

I'll sit patiently while waiting for some pics...

[T.Low]

[QUOTE=3konas;540087]For those that don't find themselves in the VW Bus/Vanagon mentality of..."It's the journey...Man!". http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/images/smilies/costumed-smiley-007.gif http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/images/smilies/victory.gif There are other alternatives, and I'm sure these have been covered here on the Portal, but I will share mine.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll195/3konas/Syncro/CIMG0055.jpg

It's a different van now. For example: Stevens Pass with the old motor 45mph avg. Zetec I can do 70 if I choose to.

A Westy does not work for me as well. 3 dogs, bikes I like to keep inside, It's a work in progress. Dual battery powering ARB fridge, invertor and 12 volts sockets. Playing with the layout inside for a cabinet of some sort that is secure but easily removable, say at camp. I've upgraded the suspension. Installed a de-coupler, TBD, lockers front and rear and I'm now trying to design some rock protection for the motor because the stock rock guard won't fit with the new motor.

These vans are not for everbody.

QUOTE]


Dude, that is a sweet looking rig and it sounds like you've put a lot of thought and effort into it.

I agree about the interior. As cool as the Westy type interiors are, my Astro is much more utiitarian without it and I too am drawing up just a simple fridge cabinet and countertop, but want it removable to haul seven passengers etc.

Incidently, my 3 Konas are a Stinky Deluxe, a Dawg Primo, and a Unit 29er with gears.

We'll have to hook up and get together for a little van run.

[Christian P.]

I drove my friend's Warren Syncro last weekend - it has a Subaru 2.5 in it.

The difference in power is unbelievable. It changes the whole experience.
I had so much fun driving the van I did not want to stop.

In my opinion, the handling of a Vanagon is more sporty.german-like and way more fun than an American van.

So if you add power, it becomes a whole new car.
Hence my quest now for a 2.5

:)

[SC-Surfer]

5 wks?!!! You dog! Nice.

I'll sit patiently while waiting for some pics...

As soon as I can figure out why my flickr photos don't show up here, I'll put some up.

[3konas]

QUOTE]


Dude, that is a sweet looking rig and it sounds like you've put a lot of thought and effort into it.

I agree about the interior. As cool as the Westy type interiors are, my Astro is much more utiitarian without it and I too am drawing up just a simple fridge cabinet and countertop, but want it removable to haul seven passengers etc.

Incidently, my 3 Konas are a Stinky Deluxe, a Dawg Primo, and a Unit 29er with gears.

We'll have to hook up and get together for a little van run.[/QUOTE]

Hey Thanks! I've been away for awhile and just noticed this.
I would be interested in what you come up with for a cabinet. The van came with jump seats facing rearwards that I no longer use that are quick to remove. I'm hoping to incorporate the jump seat attachment into the cabinet.

My Konas are a Hei Hei converted to singlespeed, King Kahuna, Jake the Snake.

I'm in for the van run. I love Bham!

[4AFK]

I agree with NAVMAN. It was so nice to pull into a camping spot, pop the top, and call it done. I'll keep my Jeep, or some type of SUV for local stuff. However, anything more than a night or two, I'll be taking the Westfalia. It's incredible how well this thing is laid out. Other than a few small mods, I'm not going to mess with it. It does need tires, so I think I'll upgrade. Also I'll add another battery, and an inverter. Go Westy sells a swing out bumper that I like as well. Anyway, here it is in Joshua Tree our second day with it. Thanks again to everyone for the advise.


Stclair,

About a year and a half ago we made the same leap and I can't tell you how much fun its been. Don't pay attention to the nay sayers, seriously; there's a reason that people are putting and keeping these old camper platforms on the road. You're as likely to be on the side of the road fiddeling with a VW as you are with anything else this old and its quite possible that the parts you need are available and easy to come by.

My van is a 2wd, diesel with a high-top conversion from TimberTech. I average about 32 MPG with this rig and fuel availability hasn't ever been a problem. The power plant was replaced. The original was a 1.6l NA diesel that the previous owner had hacked onm a turbo. I replaced the whole thing with a 1.9l NA 1Y/AAZ combo and kept it simple leaving the turbo off. I can reach and hold 70 MPH, but rarely do.

In addition to this site may I suggest that you take a look at thesamba.com. Lots of useful info there, good luck with your rig.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3419/5786164768_57b39052aa_z.jpg

[TroySmith80]

How do you like that top? If I ever wind up with a vanagon again, i'll likely try to get that top.