Should I get a Trooper?

[xman]

I was planning on upgrading my 02 Sequoia 4x4 as an expedition vehicle but the lack of aftermarket parts changed my mind. I am looking for a 95-97 Land Cruiser and so far they are too expensive ($13,000+ avg in Southern California) or in poor condition.:mad: I am still looking.

My buddy who travels a lot and goes hunting throughout the states and said that I should look at the Trooper. He said that he rented one about six years ago to hunt in Montana and that the Trooper's 4x4 system was best 4x4 he ever drove offroad. That statement got me thinking.

I am not here to start a war between Troopers versus Land Cruisers. I have seen a few Troopers advertsied in some local car auctions and they are priced under $3000 with 120,000 miles. I am not sure if they are salvage vehicles but the price has me looking.

My question is what should I look for in a Trooper. What are the best model years? How's the aftermarket for Troopers? What's a good price for a Trooper?

Thanks for any advice!

[datrupr]

I would look for a 95 - 02 Trooper, preferably 98-99 model years with out the TOD system. 00 and up years TOD was standard, it was optional in 98 & 99 and a rare find on 98 models, more common on 99's. If you do not want the oil burning issues of the early 3.5L v6 then you want to go with an 01 or 02. Also, look for one with the G80 LSD. You can tell this by looking at the plaque in the engine bay on the drivers side, it is clearly stamped "G80", and this will pretty much eliminate the need for a locker in the rear. Now, I may be a bit biased, as I love my Trooper, but it has never let me down, gotten me over any obstacale I have asked it to go over, and it does it all with out complaining. If you are looking for a great review of the Trooper, go to Scott's site at www.expeditionswest.com and check out his review on there. That should pretty much some it all up for you there.

[bigreen505]

I would go for a 2002 because they figured out the oil consumption issue -- not a big deal if you check it periodically, but whose to say the previous owner did. The TOD is nice to have on roads where a part time system won't really work and can be over ridden with about $50 in parts and an afternoon of work (I've been told, have not yet done so myself, maybe next week). Also, the seats are much nicer on the newer ones, I think 2000 and later.

[Grim Reaper]

Also, look for one with the G80 LSD. You can tell this by looking at the plaque in the engine bay on the drivers side, it is clearly stamped "G80", and this will pretty much eliminate the need for a locker in the rear. .
G80 as in the same G80 from the GM line up the Gov Lock aka Grande Locker?

I am aware of the GM ties but I thought the Troopers and Rodeo's were running Dana 44's in the rear and a Dana sourced Limited slip. Did they start using the GM 10 bolt axle for the rear?

Great for a street driven truck and I guess it would be fine for the type of exploring we do but for down and dirty spinning tires on rocks to heat them up and slinging mud.....Errrrrr they didn't get the Name Granade locker for nothing! When the go they go big and take the rest of the axle with it.

[bigreen505]

I think they are different, just based on the comments I have heard about each.

Front axle is a 10 bolt, previously found on Isuzu rears, and rear axle is a 12-bolt. I think both are Isuzu design and both are over built. The Rodeos use a Dana 44.

[datrupr]

The rear on the Troopers is a Dana 44 but it uses the same GM G80 LSD. I have not heard of any of them grenading though. Could be? The late model Rodeo's also use the Dana 44's. The 10 bolt front's are also rock solid on these trucks.

[Grim Reaper]

The rear on the Troopers is a Dana 44 but it uses the same GM G80 LSD. I have not heard of any of them grenading though. Could be? The late model Rodeo's also use the Dana 44's. The 10 bolt front's are also rock solid on these trucks.
http://www.gatago.com/alt/trucks/chevy/19639716.html

It may be fine in the trooper even if its the same. V6 vs. a V8 and a lighter vehicle.

I had one in my 79 K5 with a healthy 350 and a TH350 that was a real neck snapper if you had your foot in it. I never had a problem with it But I was aware of the reputation and kept my right foot in check. I have seen them go and almost every time the truck left on a wrecker because the housing cracked when it busted the carrier.

[bigreen505]

TH350 that was a real neck snapper if you had your foot in it.

Sir, you can accuse the V6 in the Trooper of many things, but neck snapping acceleration is most certainly not on of them. It is what I call a Shakespeare engine -- sounds of fury signifying nothing. :shakin:

[DBS311]

Let's hold on a sec here. You guys with the Troopers don't know what you have! The rear is not a Dana 44. A Dana 44 would be a downgrade compared to what comes from the factory. The '98-'02 Trooper rear axle is a monster. 9.61" ring gear (larger than Dana 60) and stock 23 spline 1.5" axles!

[Grim Reaper]

Let's hold on a sec here. You guys with the Troopers don't know what you have! The rear is not a Dana 44. A Dana 44 would be a downgrade compared to what comes from the factory. The '98-'02 Trooper rear axle is a monster. 9.61" ring gear (larger than Dana 60) and stock 23 spline 1.5" axles!

http://coloradok5.com/axleguide.shtml

D60 is 9.75

The GM small semi Floating 14 is lites as 9.5. I have heard people say it is a little bit bigger then it's listed size but GM lists it as 9.5. The BIG full floater 14 thats in my Suburban is 10.5 ring.

I wonder if the Trooper is running the SF14 or a variation of it. That would definatly explain the G80 option.

I am really shocked to hear the trooper is running that big of an axle. That's 3/4 ton size as far as GM is concerned.

[DBS311]

Grim Reaper, thanks for the correction.

In my head I was comparing the axle shaft diameter and for some reason when I typed it out, I accidentally said the ring gear was larger.

This rear axle is very beefy for its application in the Trooper. It is one of the reasons I think the Trooper is such a good candidate for an expedition vehicle. You can run 32"-33" tires and load the truck up with gear and have no worries of breakage.

[jrsteffes]

I have enjoyed my new to me Trooper for the past few months and would recomend one! My only complaint is a very slight oil leak which I have yet to locate the source. Mines a '02 with 61K miles and seems to be very capable.

[xman]

The oil burning issue in the 98-99 Troopers is that part of the engine design for top end lubrication or an inherent engine problem? have seen a lot of Troopers in the low 100's and was wondering how durable are their engines. What should I look for?

[bigreen505]

It is an inherent engine problem. Basically there is not enough room for oil to drain back off the cylinders so it gets pushed out. There is also a rumor that the oil pickup tube for the #1 cylinder is too short. Who knows, some have problems, some don't.

Mine went out about at 90,000 miles for the previous owner. According to him he checked the oil when he left Moab and all was fine, 600 miles later he was down 3.5 quarts and I think he seized the engine. It sounds outlandish, but I've heard many similar stories. You see a lot of Troopers for sale with new engines, so I think the problem was wide spread. Either that or it burned about a quart every thousand miles and the owners never checked their oil.

As far as transmissions, I don't think you have much of a choice. If you find an older one, you have a fighting shot of a manual, otherwise you are stuck with an automatic. This is my first automatic and I can't say I'm all that thrilled with it, but it wasn't a deal breaker either. If you want a large SUV (Trooper, Land Cruiser, etc.) they are pretty much par for the course. I don't think you even get a choice until you get down in size to Xterras, in which case the 6-speed manual is pretty nice.

[datrupr]

Your hear a lot of stories about the 3.5's blowing the engines due to the oile consumption, and you hear a lot of people who say they have had no such issues. When I first bought my Trooper I had no idea about the oil problem until I took it into the shop to have the starter replaced, and my mechanic told me that the oil was not even registering on the dip stick. I ended up putting 4 quarts of oil into it. It still runs great, but I do keep an eye on the oil level. It will burn more oil on the freeway or when towing or under load than in city driving, but check it at every fill up, and always keep an extra quart or two with you in the truck and you should have no problems. I now have about 130K on the odo, and the only problem I have had was the failed starter at around 100K. Very solid and reliable IMO. You could get a manual in 98 & 99, but very rare. I looked for a manual for months but could not find one, so I settled for the auto. Again no problems. I think if you decide to go the Trooper route you will not be dissapointed, just keep an eye on your oil.

[xman]

My brother told me that he found in his neighbor a 2001 Trooper 4x4 with a manual tranny, 3.5 engine and has about 75,000 miles. Sounds good. What's a fair price?

[bigreen505]

I'm not sure. Take a look at the blue book sites, but at least in Colorado they are selling at or above the high end of the range. The problem is there really isn't anything comparable to them for direct competition. Land Cruisers are bigger and every thing else is between a little and a whole lot smaller. The values were depressed for a long time because Consumer Reports branded them as unsafe, but now people are looking for a truck that is a little bigger than an Xterra, smaller than a Land Cruiser and more reasonably priced than a 4Runner and you are down to three choices: Pathfinder, Trooper and Montero. If on-road performance is the most important, buy the Pathfinder (in fairness it is much higher in price than a Trooper). If off road performance is more important, buy the Trooper.

The Consumer Reports deal was so long ago that people shopping for cars now don't remember it, so the price of the Troopers is rising to the level of the other, or at least the Pathfinder.

For 75,000 in good shape, if you can get it for about $7,000 I would consider it a good deal. Pay close attention to the brakes (including sticking calipers), CV boots, signs of over heating, and general seals. Plan on upgrading shocks and rear springs (or at least shocks), ball joints and tie rods.

[xman]

I just spoke with the seller and it's a 2001 has a manual tranny, says excellent condition, no mech problems, has the G80 lsd, TOD,always garaged and never off road. Wants to sell because just bought a new sports car. I smell a good deal.

[bigreen505]

Cool, I'd jump on it. I didn't know that you could mate the TOD case and the manual.

[xman]

I will be there AM to check it out and do a test drive. :088:

[datrupr]

Sweet! I did not think you could get anything past a 99 with a manual because they were all TOD, and manuals were just not very poular on SUV's of that caliber in this country. If it is true, then by all means then jump on it. For an 01 I would say around $9-$12K would be fair depending on condition. I would have to see the manual (or at least hear it from you) to beleive it though. and with an 01 you would not have the severe oil consumption of the earlier model 3.5's. Keep us posted.

[xman]

I was going to check out the Trooper this morning but a Land Cruiser I had made an offer on a few days ago came back into the picture. The seller (original owner) decided that my offer was fair and it looks I will get my Land Cruiser tomorrow. It has lockers, well cared for, no rust, never off road, and a complete service history.

The other factor is that there's a huge aftermarket for Land Cruisers and a lot of Land Cruiser clubs in California.

[ZooJunkie]

You jumped to the dark side!!


Good choice of vehicle though. I love them LCs!!

[xman]

The LC I checked out on Sunday is pending a pre-vehicle inspection after I found that the front,rear and center diff locks are not working. It appears the seller is making excuses that he can't take his LC to a mechanic I have selected for the inspection. It looks like I may have to pass on this LC.

I might take a look at the 01 Trooper this weekend. I have pics of the Trooper and it looks great. I was concerned about the future of Isuzu but it looks like Toyota likes them. Click the link below.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/11/07/027869.html

[bigreen505]

Xman, a bit an an addendum to our PM chats, I've come to the conclusion that the Trooper is about as big of a truck as you can get that still feels relatively small. I watched someone yesterday trying to position a Land Cruiser in a parking spot at the gym and it made me appreciate the Trooper a bit more.

[xman]

I saw a few Troopers on the freeway today and they looked very nice. By the way, I am tempted to just get a Trooper and forget the LC.

[jrsteffes]

I continue to enjoy my Trooper. I too was a bit worried about the oil use problems but have not experienced any oil use since my purchase. Ive put 2,500 miles on mine and all is well. It is a '02 and from what I have read the problems with oil use were fixed sometime during the '01 model year. I like the size, capablity, and style of these vehicals and there value to a off-road minded individual is far greater than there price (In my opinion). I had hoped for modifications to increase its capablities, but honestly now I am mainly focused on my camping/adventure gear because the vehical is highly capable in stock form. Looks like the first mod I will put on mine is a roof rack so my canoe will continue to find its way to the river! I cant wait for some snow so I can put the TOD systems to the test. Also with the auto trans you get a winter mode but it appears to just start the vehical in 2nd gear.

Get a TROOPER.........you'll enjoy it!

[xman]

I will checkout some Troopers this weekend and was wondering is there any advantage in getting a Trooper with a manual versus an auto transmission. Are manuals more reliable, easier to repair,etc?

[bigreen505]

Unless you are really opposed to getting an auto, I would look for the truck that is in the best shape and take whatever transmission comes on it. I prefer manuals, but that is just me.

Manuals also are much easier to repair and are lower maintenance.

[cruiser guy]

I will checkout some Troopers this weekend and was wondering is there any advantage in getting a Trooper with a manual versus an auto transmission. Are manuals more reliable, easier to repair,etc?

I prefer manuals over automatics for many reasons. The two you listed are high on the list. Other reasons are that IF one gear "goes out" you CAN still drive. That HAS happened to me and I drove from Mazatlan to Vancouver with only 3rd and 4th. With an auto I would have been dead in Mazatlan until it was repaired (not a good thing with a vehicle not sold or supported in Mexico). I have seen too many folks DOA due to overheated auto trannys (probably 3-4 friends that I know personally in the last 4-5 years). We had a roll over a few months ago and were able to right the truck but because it was automatic and we had lost about a gallon of ATF we still had to walk out. With a standard we could have driven out and if need be used engine oil in the tranny without incurring a huge bill later.

That's my 2 cents!!

[datrupr]

If you can find a manual Trooper go for it. However, they are very rare in the years you are looking for. However, the auto trans in the Trooper has proven to be a pretty stout unit. The down side is it is a bit under sized for extremely heavy loads, but if you do not plan on doing a lot of heavy towing, it should not be a problem, and it is also a sealed unit, so you can not check the level and condition of the fluid without dropping the pan. But other than that, with regular maintenance you should not have any problems with the auto.

[xman]

The manual transmission on the 4WD Trooper does not have the TOD feature like the 4WD Autos do. I think the TOD feature is cool and nice to have especially during winter. For those of you with that feature is it something I should look for on a Trooper. I like to get a manual but I won't get the TOD feature and the ability to have full time 4WD on and off road.

[bigreen505]

I'm withholding judgement on the TOD for the moment, but I have to say that it did not inspire too much confidence in me. It engages too late and in many situations you need proactive traction, not reative traction, like when changing lanes. The advantage of TOD is that you can have 4WD when you are driving in mixed road conditions (snow, slush, wet, dry bits and some gravel) when the surface is changing fast enough that flipping in and out of 4wd gets draining or you're not sure what the conditions are driving around a turn or over a bridge (bridges freeze before road).

I have had a part time system for years and always wished for a full time option, like Jeep's Selec-Trac, but I'm not totally sure TOD is it.

In full disclosure I have only been in snow once with the Trooper. It is a new vehicle to me and I am still learning how to drive it, tires are close to half worn (10/32) and are not a tire I am familiar with, and the snow was unusually heavy and wet with temperatures close to freezing. Still, it did not inspire confidence and changing lanes was scary at best because the front end would get pushed out about 20 degrees before the TOD system would send power there and pull it back. I was driving about 35-45 mph and I would say 55-70 mph would have been a reasonable speed for the conditions. Also, the tires I have on the truck now are 285's, which IMO is way too wide for a winter conditions tire relative to the weight of the truck.

[xman]

I spoke with the seller of the 01 Trooper and it does have the oil burning issue. He has to put in about a quart of oil every 1000 miles. He also stated that the clutch chatters and would have to be replaced with an estimated repair cost of about $700. I have read that an oil additive product called "Seafoam" will help with the burning oil problem. Anyone try that? Does anyone know where I can buy parts (Clutch) online for the Trooper?

[cruiser guy]

My opinion on any oil additive product, especially when they are supposed to "fix" problems like oil burning is pretty low.
You can add all these things but they are designed to either plug leaks or whatever, They CANNOT distinguish if it's a designed narrow restriction than needs to be open or an oil leak that it needs to "fix". It is known that products like "Stop Leak" can plug up heaters and other items unintentionally.
I've heard that "Seafoam" is more of an engine cleaner, still not something that will see the interior of any engine of mine!

[xman]

I will pass on this Trooper. I don't like the burning oil issue!

[bigreen505]

Definitely use your Spidey sense, but I would be less concerned about a Trooper that the owner says burns oil then one that the owner says is fine because he/she hasn't checked.

If you are so concerned about the problem, find one with a new engine (what I did) or do a little more research about the manufacturing date that Isuzu solved the problem and confine your search to those dates (what I really wanted to do). Like I PM'd you, I think the date was 9/2001, but definitely confirm that for yourself. I think the difference is the design of the piston rings.

[xman]

The seller was honest on the telephone and disclosed the problems with his Trooper. He was asking $7000 for it and from the pics he sent me it looked in good condition.

[datrupr]

All 98 to early 01 Troopers have the oil consumption issue. It is a design flaw in the engine. Seafoam is not an additive, is an engine cleaner, and it is a short term "fix", but the problem will come back. The solution is to buy a late 01-02 Trooper where Isuzu fixed the drain back problem of the earlier 3.5 engines. And, 1 quart every 1000 to 1500 miles is about norm, and you can strech that out by using sythetic 5w30 oil. If the owner knows about the problem, and alerts you to it, then I would not be concerned, all Isuzu 3.5's of this vintage (hell, even the 3.2's) have the same oil consupmtion issue. I check my oil every fill up and top it off about every third tank (about 1200 miles). As for the TOD, I did not think you could get it with the manual tranny, but I am not sure it is all that great of a system to begin with. I do not have TOD, but I read on the "planet" all the time about guys doing the "TOD mod", where they basically eliminate the TOD system for the traditonal part time system anyway. But, it is all about personal preference. I think parts for the clutch could be sourced fairly inexpensively almost anywhere also, just shop around a bit. The big problem with Isuzu Manual transmissions is not the clutches themselves, it is the hydraulics. My old Rodeo lasted 175K on the original clutch, but I had to have the hydraulics replaced twice, it is the same system in the Troopers, you may want to look into that as well. Keep up the search, and let us know what you find.