Keen Canyoneering Expedition

[Scott Brady]

Canyoneering Adventure, Arizona

Sponsored by Keen Footwear

http://www.expeditionswest.com/equipment/adventure_equip/keen/boulder/keen_boulder_tread.JPG

The 6 pairs of Keen Boulders have arrived. I will start sending them to the team shortly. This model has a much more aggressive sole, and is designed for rugged trekking and water crossings.

We will also need some smaller dry bags. I am doing some investigation, and will send out some gear requests on Monday of next week.

Locatation: Due to my state of moving from Casa Grande to Prescott, I need to have the venue closer to home. I have found a great area and set of canyons to explore. The trek will start with James Canyon, dropping down several falls on rappel. There are also a few long swims, with one being 70 yards! Lots of bouldering and scrambles.

Then we will exit the canyon system and camp for the afternoon along FR237. In the morning we will explore the pumphouse wash and Kelly Canyons, both easier than the day before, but a beautiful area.

These canyons are located about 2 hours north of Phoenix between I17 and 89a.

Schedule: UPDATED

Friday 9/23: 3:00 p.m., we will leave Prescott and drive to the camp and meet in camp at 4:00 p.m. I am going to scout a campsite this Saturday, and will post directions/waypoints.
Saturday 9/24: Leave camp at 8:30 to trek James Canyon, return to camp mid-afternoon.
Sunday 9/25: Leave camp at 8:00 and Trek Pumphouse and Kelly Canyons, and return to camp by 1-2:00 pm. Break camp.

Team: Locked

Greg
Brooke
Mark
Scott
Chris
Uwe

[viatierra]

I spent some time reading through www.canyoneering.com. It doesn't seem to have very much traffic, but still had some solid information on ecology & etiquitte. I was hoping to find an overview of technique and technical information. Didn't learn much, except for a pretty cool new knot (beer knot).

I have the day free, so I'm heading off to the Library in Central Phx to see what I can find there. Any other suggestions where I can read up on canyoneering technique??

[dmc]

Scott,

Do you have firm dates on this trip yet? There is a chance we may run into you on our trek. We'll be in that neck of the woods but probably a week later. I plan to do a write up of our trip in the NA section. I'd like to get some feedback from those with experience on things we may have overlooked or what we have planned properly.
dmc

[dmc]

I spent some time reading through www.canyoneering.com. It doesn't seem to have very much traffic, but still had some solid information on ecology & etiquitte. I was hoping to find an overview of technique and technical information. Didn't learn much, except for a pretty cool new knot (beer knot).

I have the day free, so I'm heading off to the Library in Central Phx to see what I can find there. Any other suggestions where I can read up on canyoneering technique??


Canyoneering 2 (maybe 3?) by Steve Allen covers some technique. The trails in the book are in the Cedar Mesa and Dark Canyon area. Gravel and Long Canyon are both discussed in detail.
dmc

[Scott Brady]

I have updated the first posting with all of the new trip details.

[viatierra]

Scott,
This sounds great! My school schedule will appreciate the changes. :p :D :) :eek: Samantha enjoys these smiley faces...

[BajaTaco]

OK, sign me up! :p

The Boulders look bitchin' :cool:

5 weeks to go...

[Scott Brady]

hey adventure partners,

I have a slight problem with the dates now. The closing date on our house in Prescott just got moved from the 18th to the 25th because of appraisel delays. So, if I go into the mountains will all of you, poor Steph would be left to move the house alone.

Is it possible to move the trip to the 9,10, and 11th of SEPTEMBER or similar. Please let me know :)

[whitethaiger]

hey adventure partners,

I have a slight problem with the dates now. The closing date on our house in Prescott just got moved from the 18th to the 25th because of appraisel delays. So, if I go into the mountains will all of you, poor Steph would be left to move the house alone.

Is it possible to move the trip to the 9,10, and 11th or similar. Please let me know :)

First, congrats on the house! :cool:

Are you talking about August or September? August would be mid-week and kind of short notice to get the days of, particularly since I can't even ask till end of next week.
I have a few of the August/September weekends still available.

[Scott Brady]

Good point Uwe, sorry for the lack of detail.

If the date change does not work for everyone, I can keep it the same, and just adjust my moving schedule if required...

[BajaTaco]

Scott, that will work fine for me. Hopefully we will be done celebrating your new house by then :jump:

[Scott Brady]

Updated: Dates Changed in first post.

Uwe, have you had a chance to buy a harness yet? Greg and Brooke have strong climbing experience and can make a few suggestions if that would help.

The one suggestion I can make is padded leg loops... Trust Me :Wow1:

[Scott Brady]

Scott, that will work fine for me. Hopefully we will be done celebrating your new house by then :jump:

15 days and counting. I am so excited, I can hardly stand it :cool:

[whitethaiger]

...
Uwe, have you had a chance to buy a harness yet? Greg and Brooke have strong climbing experience and can make a few suggestions if that would help.
....
:Wow1:

Good point. I still need to get that, so if any of you have additional suggestions let me know.

Is there any other special gear we'll need? What about those dry bags for the swims?

[Scott Brady]

Is there any other special gear we'll need? What about those dry bags for the swims?

It will really be up to the individual. I will have a dry bag for the rope gear and camera, but others will probably not need it. We will be coming back to base camp each afternoon.

Oh, and about base camp. I should be able to accomodate everyones sleeping requirements (except Baja, who will likely use his truck). I will have the Eezi-awn mounted, and will tow the Jumping Jack, so Mark, Brooke and Greg can camp out in there. I can bring a tent, and all other gear for Uwe, so his load on the plane will be minimal.

[Hltoppr]

I've used a single dry bag for radios and other sundry items, in a first generation Soloman Adventure race pack (drain holes in the bottom), full synthetic clothing, with a 200 wt. fleece in the dry bag. Shoes and socks will be fully soaked, so try to use something that will drain well and no goretex (keeps water in too!)

I'd use a "dry" rope, but not really worry about keeping my harness and other gear too dry....it ain't gonna happen. The rappell is into a pool of water, so you're wet from the get go, and trying to stay dry will only slow you down.

The pools are usually very cold, during the longer swims you can feel the life being sucked out of you. Thus, be very aware of each individual's condition for hypothermia. If you're unsure of your swimming ability while pushing a pack in front of you, a low profile life jacket, such as a Lotus Designs kayak PFD, would be a good idea.

Trying to "climb" around the pools is usually a waste of time, as you'd need to use some bolts or other pro to make a route, and more dangerous than merely swimming.

Cellular phones and the handheld (motorola type) radios don't work for anything in the canyon, and the last time I did it I had to have a helicopter overhead to get a signal out, using a 7 watt handheld, so ya'll are on your own once you drop in!

Be safe guys! If I'm in town I'll try to show my face!

-H-

[Scott Brady]

Shoes and socks will be fully soaked, so try to use something that will drain well and no goretex (keeps water in too!)

What do you think of the Keens (the picture of the shoe in the first post)? I think they will work pretty well for this trip. Keen Footwear has supplied a pair for all of the expedition members.


I'd use a "dry" rope, but not really worry about keeping my harness and other gear too dry....it ain't gonna happen. The rappell is into a pool of water, so you're wet from the get go, and trying to stay dry will only slow you down.

At least one of the ropes will be dry (I am not sure about Greg or Brooke's ropes). Mine is a Maxim Leavittator 10.5mm x 60m, Dry.


The pools are usually very cold, during the longer swims you can feel the life being sucked out of you. Thus, be very aware of each individual's condition for hypothermia. If you're unsure of your swimming ability while pushing a pack in front of you, a low profile life jacket, such as a Lotus Designs kayak PFD, would be a good idea.

Have you trekked these canyons? I am interested in your feedback if you have (mostly from a "is it really beautiful and allow for great pictures'' angle). I will probably bring at least one PFD for safety.


Cellular phones and the handheld (motorola type) radios don't work for anything in the canyon, and the last time I did it I had to have a helicopter overhead to get a signal out, using a 7 watt handheld, so ya'll are on your own once you drop in!

I will bring my 5.5watt 2m handheld for communications to the trucks. It would be very cool if you stopped by. I will send you the waypoints of our intended camp spot. I would also be happy to bring enough food for an extra dinner too (you wont regret it :eatchicke )

[BajaTaco]

Good point. I still need to get that, so if any of you have additional suggestions let me know.

Uwe, I think I had sent you an email at one time... but I ended up with the Singing Rock "Balance" harness which was very affordable (http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=47896503&parent_category_rn=4500671), has the padded loops, and the "rock n' lock" buckles. It looks very well made.

[whitethaiger]

Uwe, I think I had sent you an email at one time... but I ended up with the Singing Rock "Balance" harness which was very affordable (http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=47896503&parent_category_rn=4500671), has the padded loops, and the "rock n' lock" buckles. It looks very well made.

Yes, thanks Chris, I found the email over the weekend. I'll go down to REI sometime during the week when their climbing rock is not so busy. I hope to test the thing right there in the store. They have a ~25 ft high climbing rock in the store

[Scott Brady]

It is a really good idea to test out the harness, especially with your height. Oh, would you like me to ship your shoes to you, or just wait until the trip... :box:

[Hltoppr]

1. Keens....will work just fine. I prefer something with a bit more ankle protection, and use a Saloman Super Raid, with both ankles taped...but then again my ankles aren't the best....

2. That rope will work fine.

3. Yup, the last time I did it was a couple of years ago, so the scenery may have changed. It was very overgrown in sections. Just to check it out I may try to do a quick run with a buddy next week, depending upon monsoon conditions, as we're still getting some pretty torrential storms, which may flash flood the canyon. Probably start at about 0600 so that we're out by 1100 or so....I'll let you know.

4. Communications will be spotty at best in the canyon, but that radio will give you the best chance of punching out. Let someone know your expected return time, etc.

You guys are going to have a great time!

-H-

[whitethaiger]

It is a really good idea to test out the harness, especially with your height. Oh, would you like me to ship your shoes to you, or just wait until the trip... :box:

If you think it would be good to wear the shoes in a little on shorter walks please send them, otherwise I don't need them before the trip. I just don't want to hike with blisters... I don't remember if there was a wear-in period with the other sandals, but I wore them for shorter periods first.

[Scott Brady]

I have not found there to be a break in period. With the neoprene lining and running shoe sole, it is pretty much turn key.

It is totally up to you though Uwe. :ylsmoke:

Have you decided on travel plans yet? Do you intend to fly or drive?

[brittan]

If there is room I can make it. I have climging experience and gear. Scott...let me know. I have an extra seat too... If we are short ropes I hava a static line.
Brittan

[whitethaiger]

I have not found there to be a break in period. With the neoprene lining and running shoe sole, it is pretty much turn key.

It is totally up to you though Uwe. :ylsmoke:

Have you decided on travel plans yet? Do you intend to fly or drive?

That's how I remember the other sandals. Just bring them for the trip, don't loose them in all the moving :box: :box: :)

I'll probably drive. Flying is not all that much faster when looking at the door-to-door time AND it would involve drop-off/pick-up at both ends for both flights.

[Scott Brady]

If there is room I can make it. I have climging experience and gear. Scott...let me know. I have an extra seat too... If we are short ropes I hava a static line.
Brittan

Brittan,

I am so sorry I missed your post. You are more than welcome to come along, and trek, camp or otherwise. I will just need to be careful with the group and other images, as you will likely be wearing different shoes...

[Scott Brady]

I am going to go scout the canyons a bit this weekend, and find a good camp spot to meet at.

And now that I have hundreds of climbing routes right next to my house, I will be able to do more climbing and rope work.

[whitethaiger]

Finally got my harness (Singing Rock) last night. When I got home I realized I forgot to look at dry bags. From what I read above I think it might be useful to have something to keep a sweater dry.

Scott, what do you call 'Mid-day'? I am trying to decide when to drive out: Thursday night or very early on Friday.

Also, can I ride with someone (Chris?) from Prescott? Due to fuel prices I'd prefer to take Srisuda's car....

P.S. The forum is very, very slow right now for me and was down earlier.

[BajaTaco]

Excellent news on the harness Uwe ;)

I have some small dry bags that Scott gave me, let me test one out and make sure it is in good working order, and I will let you know - you can use it.

Yes, you can definitely ride with me from Prescott.

Yea, same deal for me on the forum - it was unavailable last night and this morning.

[Scott Brady]

I have updated the first post with more detail.

Sorry about the forum performance. We will get it worked out soon (hardware failure)

[BajaTaco]

Scott, from the first post:

"Friday 9/23: 3:00 p.m., we will leave Prescott and drive to the camp and meet in camp at 4:00 p.m."

FYI - I don't think there is any way we could make it to the camp from Prescott in only 1 hour, if you are talking about the first camp being on FR237. It will take more like 2 hours or so, if we go the quickest route up through Ash Fork to Flag. If we go through Sedona, it will take longer.

[Scott Brady]

Well, another prime example of the power of local knowledge. :D .

The map I looked at (mapsource) showed the best route as 69 to 169 to I17 to Mountain Air road exit, which is 70 miles... FR237 is accessed from Mountain Air.

I will be able to provide a better estimate after Saturdays scouting trip!

[BajaTaco]

Well, another prime example of the power of local knowledge. :D .

The map I looked at (mapsource) showed the best route as 69 to 169 to I17 to Mountain Air road exit, which is 70 miles... FR237 is accessed from Mountain Air.

I will be able to provide a better estimate after Saturdays scouting trip!

Yea, you could go the 169 to I-17 route too. But I know that just to get to the 179 exit (for Sedona) off of I-17 takes about 1 hour. From there you still have to climb up into the higher country to get to Mtn. Air - so my guess is you will be at close to 2 hours to get to Mtn. Air, and then you will have to get on the slower FR from there.

[Scott Brady]

Thanks for the feedback Baja. I will make a trip out there in a few days, and get a good sense of the time required. I intend to go in via I17, and come out to 89a and through Sedona and back to Prescott to gauge that time. It should be a beautiful drive! :sunflower

[BajaTaco]

Thanks for the feedback Baja. I will make a trip out there in a few days, and get a good sense of the time required. I intend to go in via I17, and come out to 89a and through Sedona and back to Prescott to gauge that time. It should be a beautiful drive! :sunflower

If you need any company, let me know ;)

[BajaTaco]

Finally got my harness (Singing Rock) last night.



Uwe, did you get a locking carabiner to go with it?

[Scott Brady]

I have an extra one (or two) if you dont.

[articulate]

Hey kids - I'm checking in....

Sorry I haven't been participating around here; I don't want to make the muses jealous.

Anyway, I had to stop wearing my shoes because I noticed some wear. It's just a tad that won't even show up in any photos, but I felt guilty anyway. :) I love them for biking, so I may have to make space in my budget to keep Keens in the "arsenal-o-footwear." I even get a lot of people asking about them, too.

For gear, I presume Brooke and I will be bringing our ropes, some hardware for anchor building, slings, etc. Any idea on what is available for rappel anchors (such as boulders and trees), or shall we just be prepared to be sliding hardware into the rock? How high is the tallest rap going to be? For weight and space savings, we have a rope that we cut in half for doing shorter climbs that do not necessitate a full 60 meters.

...and superb site, Scott.

Mark :victory:

[whitethaiger]

Uwe, did you get a locking carabiner to go with it?

No I didn't. So Scott, I'd like to borrow one from you.

Anything else I need to get? Maybe we should prepare one of our usual adventure gear lists :coffee: with items each individual needs to bring and group items.

What are your plans for that Friday morning? Will you guys be working or is there already time for fun stuff? :D Still trying to decide when to drive out. With a departure at 2-3pm from Prescott a Friday morning drive would be feasible.

[BajaTaco]

Mark, I get lots of comments on the Keens too. People are diggin' 'em :ylsmoke:

Uwe, I will probably need to work for a few hours on Friday morning, but you are welcome to hang around - no problem.

[Scott Brady]

Here are some more details:

Directions to camp. Take I17 to exit 333 and turn west. IMMEDIATELY after crossing the overpass, you will turn on a frontage road, just east of the Conoco (I think) gas station. You will be turning south, which will put you on FSR 237. It is ~4 miles to the campsite, which will be down in the canyon. There is a short trail that leads to the site, and would require high clearance.

The camp is at: N35 03.483 W111 43.062 (Datum, WGS84):

Here is a general area map-

Both canyon treks are approximately 4.5 miles from the put in to the camp.

http://www.expeditionswest.com/adventures/2005/james_canyon/canyons_map.gif

[Scott Brady]

And just a quick note on the area: I was just there yesterday, and it is BEYOND beautiful. Healthy forest, perfect campsite, heavy erosion on the canyon bottoms, clear water, etc.

This is going to be AWESOME

[Scott Brady]

I ordered this unit, which should keep the gear dry...
http://a1072.g.akamai.net/f/1072/2062/1d/gallery.rei.com/media/229839.jpg
Seattle Sports, Canyon Pack

[Scott Brady]

And now, for the most important part of trip planning:

MEALS! :eatchicke

Friday Night: Everyone is pretty much on their own, as I expect stragglers, etc.

Saturday Morning: We will be leaving early, so it should be fast. Some coffee and a good carbo load.

Saturday Lunch: On the trail. Make sure to bring food you enjoy eating, and at least 100oz of water.

Saturday Dinner: I am supplying the dinner, which will be some yummy pasta (and lots of it) and bread. Oh, and dessert.

Sunday Morning: Another pretty quick breakfast

Lunch on the trail or on the road, depending on how quickly we hike the canyon.

[Scott Brady]

What is everyone's plans for sleeping?

Scott: I am probably going to bring the Trooper, with the Car-Top-Tent.

Chris: He will be using the BajaResort I'm sure.

Uwe: Tent

If it would be helpful, I can tow the Jumping Jack up there, which could sleep Mark, Greg and Brooke, and ease your packing and set-up. It's up to you...

NOTE: THIS CAMP SPOT IS BIG AND VERY FLAT. IT OVERLOOKS PUMPHOUSE WASH AND THE CONFLUENCE OF KELLY CANYON. IT IS A VERY NICE SPOT.

[whitethaiger]

What is everyone's plans for sleeping?

Scott: I am probably going to bring the Trooper, with the Car-Top-Tent.

Chris: He will be using the BajaResort I'm sure.

If it would be helpful, I can tow the Jumping Jack up there, which could sleep Mark, Greg and Brooke, and ease your packing and set-up. It's up to you...

Hoping there are some flat spots at the camping area I'll be bringing a tent.

[BajaTaco]

Uwe, my first attempt to find those dry bags was unsuccessful - but I will look again today. Any idea when you will get here?

I will be sleeping in my covered wagon :D

Scott, do you need me to get/bring anything for the dinner?

[Hltoppr]

Hey Scott, on those GPS coordinates, which map datum are you using? I'm assuming WGS84....or NAD27....

And BajaTaco....I passed you on Sunday on the Oak Creek Switchbacks! I was among a set of Dual Sport motorcycles!

-H-

[Scott Brady]

The Datum is WGS84. It would be great if you paid a visit! We will be in camp Friday and Saturday nights.

What did you use for the rappel in James canyon? webbing around rock and trees?

[BajaTaco]

And BajaTaco....I passed you on Sunday on the Oak Creek Switchbacks! I was among a set of Dual Sport motorcycles!

COOL!! I remember seeing you guys!

Speaking of that, we stopped along Oak Creek. The water was pretty COLD. Not icy... I would say swimmable, but not very comfortable, especially for a 70 yard swim... with stuff in tow :smilies27. A shorty wet suit sure would be nice. :D

By the way, H - I love the new signature :xxrotflma

[Hltoppr]

I may be in Phoenix for a continuing ed class tomorrow, but I'll try to stop by the campsite!

You should be able to use a tree for the rap, 1" webbing should be fine.

-H-

[Scott Brady]

Weekend Driving Forecast for
Flagstaff, AZ

Friday Sep 23
Mostly Sunny / Wind High
74°F
Low
43°F

Precip: 20%

Windy with a few clouds from time to time. High 74F. Winds SW at 20 to 30 mph.
Length Of Day: 12 hrs 06 mins

Saturday 24
Partly Cloudy / Wind High
73°F
Low
42°F

Precip: 20%

detailsWindy with a mix of sun and clouds. Highs in the low 70s and lows in the low 40s.
Length Of Day: 12 hrs 04 mins

Sunday 25

Sunny High
73°F
Low
43°F

Precip: 20%

Mainly sunny. Highs in the low 70s and lows in the low 40s.
Length Of Day: 12 hrs 02 mins


:D

[viatierra]

I'm leaving in about 30 minutes... and am JACKED about the weekend! I'm going early to enjoy the day and snoop around. If Scott's camper is available, I'll use it. I'll have my little tent as well as backup.

My cell is 602-999-4072 if anyone needs to reach me.

We'll see you this afternoon,
Greg

[viatierra]

I just talked to Mark who confirmed that we will be doing the tent thing. So, thanks Scott for the offer, but don't bring the camper just for us.

[BajaTaco]

Hi Greg & crew

Scott, John and Uwe were out rappeling this morning at Watson Lake. I went over there last night and did some with Scott and John. We will probably be leaving Prescott before 1:00 or so. Looking forward to seeing you guys!

[Hltoppr]

I'll see ya'll at the campsite tonight for a bit! Can't wait to put faces with screen names!

-H-

[Scott Brady]

I'll see ya'll at the campsite tonight for a bit! Can't wait to put faces with screen names!

-H-

EXCELLENT! :jump:

[goodtimes]

Hey, don't have TOO much fun. I'm here at school, wishing I was up there. This should be a great trip for you guys. Be safe.....and don't post any pictures. I'm bummed enough that I can't make it up there, I don't need anything else to make me hate my job even more. :cry:

[datrupr]

Hey guys, have a great time and be safe. We all look forward to the reports when you get back. :luxhello: