The Quigley Buildup

[jeff@work]

Alright so the quigley buildup is about to begin...i'm basically looking to make this into something similar to what sportsmobile produces. I want it to be 4 season capable so i can be camped comfortably on the beach or at a ski resort :1888fbbd:

This is a bit long but i'm definitely looking for peoples opinions...input is much appreciated! If you have any input on any of the products i've gone with so far or suggestions for how else i should go about it please let me know! :wavey:

STORAGE/SLEEPING
The van came with basically a bare interior....just the penthouse popup and a plywood floor. My first step is going to be applying some insulation and a nice floor. I'm going with the foil-foam-foil insulation http://www.insulation4less.com/highr_FfmF.asp Not only does it help insulate but it provides sound dampening.

For flooring I knew carpet was out after getting muddy at Moab...carpet would be impossible to keep clean. So it was either laminate flooring or vinyl. I couldn't find any vinyl flooring i liked and when looking at costco's laminate flooring i noticed that their installation package included plastic coated foam to laydown under the laminate flooring. I had been a bit worried about putting the laminate flooring on top of the insulation i purchased but it looks like it should work out well....time will tell. I'm hoping this turns out to be a low cost, durable, and low maintenance floor.

I'm also working on putting together a couch that converts into a bed, this will be positioned behind the drivers seat. I wanted something that would be comfortable to lounge on and nice to sleep on when i don't feel like sleeping in the penthouse. For the mattress i'm looking at either going with a foam futon or making my own foam mattress out of regular foam and memory foam. I'll be covering it with a washable microfiber cover. Underneath the couch will also provide storage.

For additional storage I'll be putting in some cabinets after the couch and then on the otherside of the van i'll have additional cabinets, a sink, a fridge, and a microwave. I think i'll skip a permanent cooktop as i don't use them too much and i can always take a small camping one with me. I'm also trying to avoid propane but we'll see how that works out.

In the very back of the van i'll be building a small box on the floor for the fresh water tank and then on top of that will be free storage where i will keep my mountain bike.

For the sink and counter i'm looking at doing a solid surface setup but i still need to research it a bit further. http://www.royalstoneind.com/products_Sink.asp?showDetail=smallSingle

For the middle of night calls of nature I went with a Thetford Porta Potty 555. It's manual flush, didn't need electric and supposed to be one of the best porta potty's.

For a shower i'm going to make a portable one that i can setup in the hallway when using and store it when i'm not.

WATER SYSTEM
For the water system I've purchased black abs plastic vallterra tanks...the fresh water one is 30 gallons and baffled, the gray water tank is 9 gallons but not baffled. Both tanks will be mounted inside of the vehicle to help protect them from freezing. http://www.valterra.com/RV/fresh_water_tanks_and_accessorie.htm

For a water pump i went with the Aquajet ES. It was a bit pricier than i planned but is supposed to be a reliable, quiet, and fairly steady flow water pump. http://www.aquatec.com/rvpump.htm

Since water sources are never guaranteed I figured a water purifier would be important to have. For this one i went with http://doultonusa.com/HTML%20pages/ip100SC.htm They say it's for "For any water supply with no objectionable water odors other than sea water".

Now the more I thought about this I realized I needed gauges for the water tanks to see how full they were. In tank gauges apparently aren't super reliable so I went with the SeeLeveL II 709-PH. The sensors mount to the outside of the tank and with the monitor panel i can monitor 3 different water tanks, a propane tank, and the battery. It also has switches for the water pump and water heater. http://www.rvgauge.com/products/model_709PH.shtml

This is adding up fast :smilies27

STILL TO FIGURE OUT
Heating system and water heater -
Espar stuff is nice but I'd probably be looking at around $3000 just for the water heater and furnace not including what it would cost me to install it.

I've been trying to avoid propane and my vehicle is gas not diesel. For a furnace i've been considering just a small electric heater, they do use a lot of amps but i'm hoping if i can insulate the van enough i won't need tremendous use out of it, you can get one for like $50 that has a remote, timers, and auto thermostat.

For the water heater i've been looking at the an atwood marine 6 gal water heater. It functions as a heat exchanger with the engine coolant and also has an electric element. However like an electric furnace it is quite taxing on the electrical system. http://www.atwoodmobile.com/Products/marine/waterheaters.cfm

If electric just isn't going to workout i'll proably look further at propane or the espar setups.

ELECTRICAL
I really like the TrippLite RV2012UL. It's a 2000 watt inverter with a 3 stage battery charger. Should be able to pick it up for under $600.

Solar panels are in the future but probably not immediately so.

Generators, i'm looking at the 1000 or 2000 watt offerings from honda, yamaha, and kipor. I think it would be really cool to be able to add an electric start to it, not sure how much work that would be.

Batteries i'll probably go with lifeline agm batteries although i'm not sure on the size.

Fridge - probably somethign like this waeco http://www.waeco.com/en/253_1011.php?hirID=288&sprID=2&artOrigID=88 looking for around 3 cu ft capacity and a small freezer section.

OTHER
I'm getting the windows tinted in the morning for a bit more privacy and heat rejection.

I'll be making window shades out of relfectix or the same insulation i've used in the rest of the van.

I'll probably be switching out the 265/75r16 goodyear wranglers for 255/85r16 maxxis bighorns.

I'd like to add a box on the back of the van that i can carry the generator in and a couple gas can's. (think rear tire carrier setup)

Front 2" reciever hitch and multi mount winch system.

I have an air compressor that is basically a rebadged mv-50, i'll be working on a permanet mount for it and have it hooked up to like a 5 gallon tank that i'll probably mount underneath the van. I was thinking a remote on/off switch and pressure gauge mounted up front.

I have a tranny temp gauge and oil pressure gauge i need to install.

Carputer for navigation and other fun things.

New shocks, work on getting more articulation, possibly some sort of airbag setup to control suspension height. Maybe regear and an e-locker...right after i win powerball anyways lol

If you made it this far thanks for reading my ramblings! Pictures will follow as i progress with my upgrades.:friday:

[OutbacKamper]

Jeff;
Just a few observations:
1) 2000 watt inverter? at 12 volts you will be drawing 167amps! I don't think this is practical unless you are installing a huge battery bank. If you want to run electric heat and/or electric water heater, you will have to run the generator the entire time or plug into a 110 volt power source.
2) Tire size: 255/85-16 would not be a size I would recommend for your van because of the size and weight. If you are increasing the height of the tire you need to increase the width also or your on-road handling will be really deteriorated. If you want to increase your tire diameter I would recommend 285/75-16, this is a much more commoon size than 255/85-16 or 295/75-16 and is therefore available in a much larger variety of tires. It is also available in load range E, which would be prefered for your vehicle. I can tell you from personal experience that it is a real pain being stranded in a small town/small tire shop that does not stock your tire size. I have switched from 295 to 285 tires for this reason.
3) Espar: I believe that Espar and Webasto make gasoline models as well as diesel. However they ARE expensive.
4) Weight - weight - weight...Be very careful with every mod, your weight will skyrocket unless you are very careful. ie: Things like solid surface counters add lots of weight, I would investigate lighter alternatives.

Check out this site:
http://www.badgertrek.com

Good luck and keep us informed on your progress

Cheers
Mark

[FusoFG]

Sounds like a plan.

We have an Aquajet ES and like it very much. Get the vibration damper (coil of flexible hose) so it doesn't transmit vibration to the tank and any rigid plumbing pipe and fixtures.

A marine hot water heaater is a good idea. The engine will heat the water as you drive. We always have hot water for a day or so after driving. Several companies make 4 gallon units and rectangular units instead of the standard round unit if space is a problem. We have an Indel Isotemp and it has better insulation than anything we had before.

I don't think the Espar is as much as you think. We didn't pay that much and I've seen the basic unit for 1000 on the internet.

http://www.lubricationspecialist.com/product_info.php?cPath=8_36&products_id=120&osCsid=6621994eec12f0709ae891ad2d7a2ed2

They make a gasoline version, but I don't know how hard it is to find.

The nice thing about the hot water furnace is you can connect it to the marine hot water heater and the van heater and a radiator in the camper.

That way the van engine can heat the hot water and provide heat to the living space while driving.

And the espar can provide heat to the living space, the cab and heat the hot water while parked.

From our experience (camping from 2 months to a year at a time and living aboard a sailboat for 15 years) a 3 cubic foot refrigerator is too big and will use too much battery.

Get something smaller and add additional insulation. We currently have an Indel Isotherm BI 41 that's about 1.5 cubic feet. Plenty for 2 people for a week. It's a top loading unit that you build into your cabinetry. Average consumption is .7 amp but we added insulation around the outside of the unit and use less than that.

Top loading units have been used on sailboats for years because the cold air doesn't spill out when you open the door and use less battery.

Good luck

[Robthebrit]

For heat and maximum flexibility regarding hot water, engine preheat consider an espar hydronic heater and a water to water heat exchanger. This is pretty similar to what has been used on Unicats but I beleive my design is better and ultimately more flexible. The basic premise is because the espar heater is so expensive you want to get the most out of it in terms of engine preheat, hot water heating, space heating but you don't want a massive espar that burns lots of gas/diesel. My plans are for diesel where preheat is more important but a gasser likes to be warm too.

The simplest approach for both hot water and engine preheat is to tap the heater circuit and install the espar. The engine and the espar work together so the hotter the water gets from the engine the less work the espar has to do. On this same circuit install your coolant based water heater (with an electric emersion heater if you wish) and you get hot water while driving. However when you stop driving the espar is powerful enough to keep the coolant in engine warm but due to the size of the coolant circuit not powerful enough to keep the entire cooling system warm enough to drive a water heater. Big engines, especially diesels, typically have extra large coolant circuits and to get the coolant hot enough to drive a water heater means the thermostat is open and you now have an even bigger engine coolant circuit and a radiator. You also have the issue of running engine coolant from the engine all the way to the camper which is a critical point of failure, you also have to consider the additional load on the engine water pump and pay careful attension to the path of the coolant lines as they need to stay lower than the engine expansion tank.

The solution is to use a water to water heat exchanger on the engine coolant circuit, the other side of the heat exchanger is a private coolant system that contains the espar and the water heater. This private espar coolant system is pressurized and only a few gallons, while parked the espar can very easily get the temperature of this private coolant system upto boiling and hold it there which provides hot coolant for the water heater. While driving the engine is pumping water through the engine side heat exchanger and the heat gets transfered to the espar coolant circuit and if that is not enough heat the espar will run.

While parked the pump on the espar will circulate water in the espar circuit so you will be putting some heat back into the coolant from the espar circuit due to thermal convection but it will not be much, if its not super cold this will be enough heat to keep the engine coolant luke warm and give the diesel engine a kick start. If you need more engine preheat you can install a coolant pump to circulate the engine coolant through the heat exchanger which will cause it to pickup a lot of heat and basically get the engine hot, in fact you should be able to transfer enough heat to open the engine thermostat. Once the engine is hot you can use the regular truck heater as a defroster on those really cold days.

In this system the espar is only used to keep the local coolant hot and once its hot the espar switches off. When the clean hot water in the water heater is hot its extracting very little from the espar circuit and typically the engine cooltant pump is off the engine preheat is extracting very little heat from the espar circuit, the end result is you use very little diesel.

You can extend this private hot water circuit to contain water to air heat exchangers/matrix heaters with an electric blower to heat the cabin, this works like a standard heater in a vehicle. You could pump the water in the espar hot water circuit around the outside of your holding tanks to keep them warm and for ultimate comfort you could also install under floor heating in a similar way. All of these options could be controlled by valves to switch them on and off and the more of these heat circuits you have the longer the espar will run for and the more diesel you will burn.

Finally the engine coolant water to water heat exchanger is in the engine compartment so engine cooltant stays near the engine and no additional strain is placed on the engine water pump. I have detailed documents on this system if you are interested as well as suppliers for all the parts.

EDIT: Here is an awesome unimog camper from the UK that did a lot of the same (http://www.unimog.org.uk/mymog/)

Rob

[Robthebrit]

As somebody else said watch out for your weight, the quigley conversion adds a significant amount and all of the little things add up fast. Don't forget you have to consider the weight of the FULL tanks and you proabably want an allowance of 500-1000 pounds for your stuff, food, clothing etc.

I think most of the plans I have for my mog will put me close to its GCVW and its probably near 2X that of E-250.

Rob

[chet]

sounds like you have lots of work ahead of you! Make sure you seal the seams on the laminate flooring. the press board construction does not like moisture at all. If water is left on it where it can get into a seam the board will puff up and not go back down when dry. Found this out with our VW camper we had and installed laminate.

[etbadger]

A few thoughts as we currently live in a pop-top 4x4 van:

1 - carpets. Yes they get muddy, but they are oh-so much more comfy on the feet. We have indoor/outdoor with 1/2" of closed-cell sleeping mat laminated underneath. When they get dirty we just take them out and wash them off. Cut into 2 pieces for our floor-plan so they are easy to put in and take out.

2 - Another option for heat is a diesel/kerosene cooktop. We have a Wallas 2 burner unit that runs off of our diesel tank. You could just plumb it up to a 2-gallon fuel can and you have cooking, furnace, and an easy way to make hot-water (in a pot).

3 - 2000 w inverter sounds like overkill, and the efficiency of an inverter for small loads goes down as the overall capacity goes up. We have a 1400w inverter/charger that was free, but usually we just use a couple 15$ 75watt cigarette plug inverters for the small stuff (razor, etc)

4 - Condensation is a big issue for us in the winter. Think very hard about sealing the walls and insulation from the living space with a vapor barrier. Ours is not well sealed, and we get ice buildup on the inside of the outer van skin. It drips out when we hit warmth again. I need to address this before too many years pass and we rust out.

5 - Weight. Everything adds weight. Try to put the heavy stuff as low as possible. Consider where you can get multiple uses out of the same thing.

6 - Water. We have a 16 gal tank (about 13 gal usable) and 10 gal in bladders that we carry. Over time we have altered our habits to where this can hold us over for about 2 weeks. I would love to have a larger single tank and do away with the bladders. Consider filtering it on the inlet side too so that you don't get critters growing in the tank itself. We have a filter at both ends. Inlet side keeps the tank relatively clean, outlet cuts down on taste (and we can then put chlorene tabs in the tank if we have any issues).

7 - Insulation. Consider that the walls of the van are a couple layers of sheet metal with corrigations between them (much like a cardboard box). This is a few inches of dead air space that could be filled with expanding polyurethane foam and provide quite a bit of insulation at no cost in interior space. One of the first changes I will do to our van when we have down-time to tear out the cabinetry again. Also, polyurethane foam is a very good insulator, and quite cheap.

Also, with a pop-top, (assuming a fabric sided one) the majority of your heat gain and loss will be through the pop-top sides, so a blanket system to insulate up there will do a world of difference to your comfort.

Best of luck,
-Erik

[bigreen505]

7 - Insulation. Consider that the walls of the van are a couple layers of sheet metal with corrigations between them (much like a cardboard box). This is a few inches of dead air space that could be filled with expanding polyurethane foam and provide quite a bit of insulation at no cost in interior space.

Erik, I've heard rumors of car audio competitors doing this to cut down on panel vibration only to find out the hard way the foam attracts and traps moisture against the metal and cause huge amounts of rust. Not sure how much truth there is to that but worth checking in to.

Thanks for your site, it is a wealth of information!

Bill

[18seeds]

I had a 99 Ford Quigley Van and had the same idea to do my own SMB conversion.

Heating: I used a Hoda 2000i generator with a small space heater. Works fine for the cold weather. I spent many nights at Vail and Rabbit Ears Pass with it. I wouldn't use the generator if you were camping out with all the people at A-Basin. IMO the only way to heat this right is to use propane since you do not have diesel. You could get a diesel cook top that doubles as a heater but you would need a place to store 1-2 gal of diesel. I can't remember the company name that makes it.

Water: 7 Gallon jug from wallmart. Yes it did freeze

I also used the generator to power a tv and microwave.

Insulation: used the blue stuff from home depot and the alumunum bubble stuff.

Floor: I laid a few layers of carpet down. The floor is def a problem area as it can get real col and is hard to insulate.

I loved that van. I spent a lot of nights in that van last winter. It's great stealth camping.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g305/18seeds/CIMG0486.jpg

[jeff@work]

Mark,

1) You're right, the 2000 watt inverter is probably overkill, i'll check into some lower wattage inverters. I'm hoping to find one that isn't too noisy...i have a little 100 watt one that's pretty noisy when it gets going but i guess depending on where i mount i might be able to keep it fairly quiet.
2) I am somewhat torn on the tire size, i've also considered the 285/75r16 which would be about the same height but between 1-1.5" wider. The problem i run into is that the tires rub on the sliding door with the 265's, the 285's would prevent me from fully opening the sliding door...i could probably live with this or perhaps have the inside of the door trimmed down some. The 255's are load rated to 3000 lbs even though they're only load range D...my rear axle is only rated for ~5500 lbs.
The van feels very stable with the 265's on road and in the couple of trails i've done off road...of course the 285's would probably be a bit more so. Decisions decisions.
3) Thanks i had totally forgotten about webasto! More options for the heating.
4) I agree weight is something i am trying to be careful with. We've been making the couch/bed out of 1x2 frame and 1/2" plywood....so far this is coming out pretty light...certainly lighter than mdf fiberboard would have. I'll probably use the same construction for the cabinets.

FusoFG
Glad to hear the Aquajet ES is working well for you. Thanks for the tip on the Indel Isotemp, i'll definitely look into that one. 4 gallons would certainly be enough and one that can leave you with hot water a day after driving would be a nice bonus.
Also thank you for the advice on the fridge, i'll check out the smaller models and of course it does make sense that the top loading would hold in the cold air better.
That exact model of espar does come in the gasoline version...i'll have to check to see if it is the same price. I had kinda forgotten that i could use the hydronic one to also heat the interior by using the van's regular air vents.

Rob,
You have clearly really thought this out and you've definitely got my attention with the water to air heat exchangers/matrix heaters. I don't know why something like that didn't occur to me...after all my condo is heated with a water baseboard heater! I would really love to see the documents you have on this...i'm really liking this idea.

Chet,
Thanks for the tip, the insulation i'm using is a water barrier so i'll have to make sure i seal all the seams very well.

Eric,

Just had to say i love your guys website, it's probably one of the most informative websites on these van's i've ever seen.

1) I'm still debating the flooring.

2) This is an option, i've heard really good things about the wallas cooktop and i'd probably look into something like this if the gasoline fired espars or webasto's don't workout.

3) The inverter is definitely being rethought....do you get much fan noise from the 1400 watt one? I'm thinking if i have the inverter mounted in one of the cabinets (something with ventilation) i probably wouldn't hear it too much.

4) I saw some of the problems you had with the condensation on the penthouse roof, it would really be nice to come up with a way to cut down on the condensation. I've looked at dehumidifiers but they're basically air conditioners and use just as much power as an air conditioner. As far as a vapor barrier the insulation i'm going to use is water proof so i guess it will just come down to how well of a job i do sealing it up.

5) Definitely

6) I am actually looking for an external filter to use after seeing the one you guys were using i realized that is a must have item.

7) I've actually been thinking about using some expanding foam i saw at home depot, it's supposed to be water proof and is called something like big gaps and cracks. I'll have to check on the manufacturer when i go back down there. One of the things i was seeing with a lot of the expanding foams was they aren't really designed for the big areas in the van sides but more for just filling small cracks.
I'll definitely have to check into what Bill mentioned about it trapping moisture in there....that sure would backfire on me.

18seeds -
So did you just have the honda generator running all night for the heater?
Do you think the insulation you had on the walls was enough?
Did you try laying any insulation down on the floors other than the carpet?

Thanks guys! I really appreciate the time everyone took to read this and give well thoughtout opinions.

[jeff@work]

Just found some more info on using the hydronic heaters as air heaters....it's actually from espars website under the marine section.
http://www.espar.com/pdfs/marine.pdf

[Robthebrit]

You could always use the airtronic for direct air heating but that is more expense, overall it could be less weight than the matrix heaters needed for the hydronic, the airtronics are more efficient that the hydronics for a given heat output and you get instant results, likewise you can switch it on and off as you need. The hydronic is typically for slower and more long term heating solutions and hot water.

My small 421 unimog which used to be a snow blower had the really old version of the airtronic behind the passenger seat. It would warm the cab in seconds but I removed it because it would swallow the outside of the truck in a fog of white smoke. I tried to rebuild it and espar told me what was wrong with it but they could not source the parts, I still have it if somewhere.

Scott, you should look at espar for your arctic trip.

Rob

[Robthebrit]

Jeff, I just noticed another potential problem with your proposed water system. The filter you have choosen only has a flow rate of 0.5 gallons per minute which is not high enough for aquajet. Basically the pump will be able to reach shut off pressure when the faucet is open and you'll end up cycling the pump which that pump is designed not to do. Most RV pumps have this problem but I have no idea if it will bother the aquajet.

Rob

[gjackson]

Jeff,

Don't know if you have a fridge yet, but if you are interested I have a cabinet 12v fridge that came with my Defender. Originally to be supplied to NATO. If you are intersted I'll check on size and whatever else I can find out. Will sell cheap!

cheers

[jeff@work]

Looks like you're more on top of this than i am Rob, I didn't notice that in the faq on the aquajet and never thought of that being a problem. This is the first time i've ever tried to plan and build up something like this so i'm really appreciating the help on it.
I just emailed aquajet to see if there's something i can change on the pump...otherwise i'll probably have to return either the pump or the purifier...so far i've only found one purifier that looks to be nice and flows over .5 gallon per minute...but it's $460!

Graham - I'm definitely interested, i'll pm you.

[Scott Brady]

Just an idea for the floor: Get the tub Rhino lined and then use simple, roll up carpet runner.

nice find on the water tank gauge; I am going to look into it.

The 285/75 is an ok tire for your application, but don't shy from the 255/85 for the reasons stated above. Stability is only gained by an increase in track width, not tire width as is commonly mentioned. I.E. the 255/85 with a wheel with less off-set will provide the same stability as a 285. On my Tacoma, I decreased the off-set from stock by .75, which gained me 20mm of additional track width per side and nearly the same overall track width as 285's on stock wheels. Then you would have the increased efficiency (reduced rotating and reciprocating mass and less frontal resistance) of a narrow tire and the same stability. If you cant find a 255 replacement tire in the middle of nowhere, a 285 will work to get you back on the road.

[jeff@work]

Well I started working on the floor last week...but got interrupted by a quick trip to san felipe, mx....a worthy distraction :sombrero:

The first step was removing the plywood floor that it came with...since the screws had all been covered up with wood filler this was a bit of a challenge! Once i got all the plywood cleaned up I went in and filled all the holes with silicone...maybe i should have used something like bondo...we'll see.
After everything had dried i went in and laid down the insulation and taped it up with aluminum tape. I can't tell yet how effective the insulation will be but as noise reduction it has made a noticeable difference.

Now onto finishing the floor and insulating the sides!

[18seeds]

18seeds -
So did you just have the honda generator running all night for the heater?
Do you think the insulation you had on the walls was enough?
Did you try laying any insulation down on the floors other than the carpet?

Thanks guys! I really appreciate the time everyone took to read this and give well thoughtout opinions.

Yes the generator ran all night but needed to be filled up once a night. I think you can tune it better it will run all night long. It was my friends and he was lazy and never got it tuned for high altitudes.

The insulation in the walls was plenty. I see yours is a window van so that can make it harder. I cut a piece of blue insulation to go over the windows. worked pretty good.

The floor is a MAJOR problem area. From what I have learned there is no really good way to insulate the floor. I've heard of some people doing some pretty crazy things.

There is a 4x4 van group on yahoo that can be a great resource.

[Joaquin Suave]

I thought I'd add $.02

I "did" vans before owning Casa Azul. 1 chevy in early 80's, 1 E250 in late 80's (old body), and 1 new style E250 in the 90's. All of them 2 wheel drive.

Being into MT. bikes, Kayaking, and formerly sailboarding...They were constantly crammed with gear when I went and road tripped. Now that I've got Casa its like going exploring in a condominium. Truth be told...I really miss the "fast attack" camping that can be only done in a stealth white Ford van!

Before I share my observations, I have to admit that...

I DON'T LIKE COLD PLACES

And the only ice that i want to see is in my high-test Margarita!

So I can't add anything to the how to stay warm discussion.

I guess the biggest thing for me regarding any vehicle one set up for camping is...Do you camp in it or out of it???

With Casa Azul we camp "in" it because we have all kinds of storage and the layout is every open and airy, But its F'en HUGE!

With my vans, I camped "out" of them except for when we parked stealth when in transit or had bad weather. You know...they awning goes out, the mexican reed mats go down, the cook table goes up, the beach chairs and bar box/table get set in front of the fire pit, and so on. Then at bedtime my girlie and i would climb in the bed in the back with enough room to change clothes and use the porta-potti. This was our typical MO and if it was really nucken (went through a hurricane on mainland Mexico and more Nort'es than i can count in Baja) we would stash the outside gear under the van and have enough room to confortably fair the storm for several days without sufering cabin fever.

A passenger seat swivel is also a "must have". The drivers seat isn't as useful because of the stearing wheel.

It seem to me that Sportsmobil and the other van RV companies try to make the space in a Van "bigger than it really is by adding a bunch a furniture that in reality just makes it more cramped.

I wish I had a pop-top back them, but if I did...I doubt I would have changed the internal layout of the back of my van.

Pop-tops are cool...In fact they're cold. One would be hard presses to design a better heat sink for a van! So, that being said...You'd be wise to make sure that your able to sleep in the back of your van with that sucker (of warm) closed. This is especcially true if your planning to go to Baja in the fall or winter months because of the Nort'es.

As far as internal layout goes...How tall are you? if your under 6', than you can set up a bed going sideways. I'm 6'2" and suffered the worst night of my life sleeping in my (un-insolated) van one freezing night at Laguna Hanson. I quickly changed my bed to length wise.

One good advantage with a lengthwise bed is that you can have a gap between your bed and the van wall that can fit 2 mt.bikes or several sheets of plywood (and other "big") when not camping.

The attachment is the bed frame I designed for a friend of mine with a syncros van but the concept is the same. The bottom space is for cargo box's and the gap just under the plate is for folding tables and chairs.

I first put a bench-fold to a bed in Casa Azul. It was terrible for both! worse than a hide-a-bed!

I had a small fixed propane tank under my van and plumbed into the van for a small top-open reefer and then had a fitting at the tank to screw in a hose for an outside hose for a stove and lantern.

As far as H20 goes...No matter how much you've got....You'll always want more! Casa Azul has 100 gallons and when in Baja we practice water conservation but still need to get H20 every 1 1/2 weeks. The difference between staying a few more days is usually depends on your h20 supply.

That being said...I'd go for a h20 tank (I just used 5 g plastic bottles with a screw on hand pump) but just do a hand pump so that your basically forced to conserve h20. trust me, you'll waste h20 with a pressurized system. I've also had my h20 pump go out in the middle of nowhere...What a pain in the @ss!

Here is another thing about h20 I learned the hard way...Filtering

If your going to filter...do it going into your tank AND going out of your spigot!

Or do like we do...

WE ONLY PUT AGUA PURIFACADO IN OUR TANKS!!!!!We shower in it! we wash with it! we shower in it! the dogs drink it!

Why? the consequinces are to GREAT! Granted its a little more expensive BUT WAY WORTH THE EXPENSE!

[gjackson]

Jeff,

The fridge is a Coolmatic Waeco MDC-65. Brand new, only ever switched on, but never used. Is a front loader with a small freezer compartment. Outside dimensions are: 24" high x 19.5" wide x 19.5" deep. With the door catch the height at the front is 25.5". It comes with the manual and a Land Rover made tie down hoop that is pretty stout!

The door is hinged at the front, so it doesn't get any wider with the door open. According to the manual, the voltage requirements are 4amps @ 12vDC or 2amps @ 24vDC. Has a 70w power rating.

Nice little unit, and we would have used it except the front loading didn't really fit with our packing system. I have attched some pics.

cheers

Graham

[jeff@work]

Hey Graham,

Your fridge looks like it would work our pretty well for my van. How much do you want for it?

Jeff

[gjackson]

Jeff,

If $100 works for you that works for me.

cheers

[jeff@work]

That sounds great Graham looks like i have a fridge now :luxhello: Thank you!
I'm down in AZ using the warm weather to work on the van but i'll let you know when i'm back up in Colorado...should be around the end of the month.

[gjackson]

No worries. It's been sitting in my garage for 3 years. A few more months won't hurt! Just let me know when you want it.

cheers

[Kermit]

Mark,



7) I've actually been thinking about using some expanding foam i saw at home depot, .
Becareful with that stuff...I am pretty sure it is HIGHLY flamable and TOXIC when it burns. My uncle used to work for an electrical company, and they thought it would be a good, easy idea to use some of that faoming spray insulation. They covered the whole inside of the van with that foam..well, one of the guys used to smoke...you can guess what happening next.

Maybe they changed the formula...??

[G35Vortec454]

I run a 5KW inverter in my 21-ft RV powered by 4 Golf car batteries and dual alternators. I know, I know they add up weight. But they can power my electric split-unit A/C cold/heat pump (9000BTU), my 6- gal electric water heater, and my microwave oven. I've run the a/c and watched two movies all night one night with the engine idling using only 5 gallons, compare that to any generator at full load.

On insulation, I used duct-wrap fiberglass batts on the walls and roof instead of polyurethane fills. I've also installed solar films on all windows except the front ones. I use propane bottles to cook, since I removed the propane trank underneath the RV.

For tires/wheels, I put 14-ply load-G tires on 19.5 wheels under the 7-inch lifted RV.

http://www.EDMARMS.com\Gallery\Other\rv_012b.jpg

[jeff@work]

Well I haven't updated this because i have been making somewhat slow progress on it.

I pretty much finished the insulation at least for now, I used the foil-foam-foil for most of the van along with some reflectix. The foil used in the foil foam foil is pretty wimpy and can tear very easily while the relectix is much more durable. While it was providing some insulation I decided it wasn't providing enough so I added some foam board to the walls and floor. The stuff i used for the floor was pretty tough and i could walk around on it without it compressing at all...how it holds up in the long run obviously remains to be seen....i'll have to go back and check the name of it. The next step was to put down some laminate flooring from costco, i'm very happy with how it looks and so far it seems sturdy but like the insulation long term durability remains to be seen!

http://www.jeffgully.com/images/van/aPb120004.jpg

http://www.jeffgully.com/images/van/aPb150013.jpg

http://www.jeffgully.com/images/van/aPb150016.jpg

These pictures are before i attached the floor to the bottom of the van, it now has about 20 screws in it with nice big washers on them.

My next step was I wanted to get the electricity going in the van. I want to be able to use this van as a remote office very simliar to how they do over at badgertrek.com so I figured i'd need some decent power. Originally I planned on 2 group 31 AGM's and I would put them where the factory auxillary battery was on the passenger side frame rail...well after playing around with it a bit i realized a 3rd would fit in there just perfectly! Off to ebay i went and found a local place selling Group 31 AGM's for $96 and they allowed local pickup! :Wow1: So i picked up my 3rd battery from them...it's a rebadged version of my original 2 batteries so they're all the same.

Now it's really nice that i've got these three batteries sitting next to my van but i need to somehow get them mounted up under the beast. I thought about having someone fabricate something for me but I've always wanted to learn to weld myself so after a bit of searching around I picked up a lincoln mig welder from craigslist.

Great now i've got a welder but i have no clue where to get steel! Off to yellow pages i go and i find a couple steel stores that do not require minimum orders. I have to admit i was a bit intimidated I've never done any metal work what so ever and figured i'd walk into this shop and not even know how to order steel...i had in my mind what i wanted but now i needed to explain that to them.

I went to metals supermarket in tempe and browsed through a little book they had describing the different metal types. This helped a lot and the people there were really nice and helpful. They even let me walk around in the back to look at all the different metal. I gave them the exact sizes of the metal i wanted and they cut it to order right then and there...cool! I also grabbed some little pieces of metal they had so i could practice the welding a little bit.

Good thing i had the practice metal cause my first welds were awful :xxrotflma After a little bit of practice I decided to tackle building the battery box...the welds aren't pretty but they have good penetration and look to be pretty strong welds. The box attaches to the frame via 4 brackets and then 3 brackets in the front attach it to the body. It only hangs down a little less than an inch below the body of the van which is actually less than the factory auxillary box hung down.

http://www.jeffgully.com/images/van/aPc020013.jpg

http://www.jeffgully.com/images/van/aPc020012.jpg

These pictures don't show the 3 brackets i put on that go in front of the batteries to hold them in place and attach the box to the body of the van.

continued...

[jeff@work]

Everyone suggested going with a smaller inverter and that was the plan...i realize i could easily get by with one under 1000 watts however on ebay there is someone selling refurbished xantrex freedom inverters for VERY cheap. I picked up a freedom 1500 water inverter/charger for ~$300. This is a really nice inverter and includes a 3 stage temperature sensitive battery charger.

A problem with going with the larger inverter was the need to use a larger fuse and thicker battery cables. I ordered these from a solar store as you won't find anything this size at an rv or auto parts store. It's a 200 amp fuse and the cables are 2/0 gauge.

Here's the finished product...i'll have to take some pictures of the wiring when i take the box back out to paint it.

http://www.jeffgully.com/images/van/aP1200002.jpg

http://www.jeffgully.com/images/van/aP1200003.jpg

http://www.jeffgully.com/images/van/aP1200005.jpg

http://www.jeffgully.com/images/van/aP1200008.jpg

I also wanted to add that i really appreciate the advice and ideas everyone has posted so far.

I already have the electric water pump so i'll probably use it and treat myself to some luxury of running water but i'm definitely going to bring with me a manual pump in case the electric one fails and i might switch between the two so i can see how much water i save using the manual one, i'm sure it will be a noticeable amount.

I will be adding a swivel bracket to the passenger side seat, i agree that should really open up the interior space and provide more seating when camped.

I'm 6"1 so sleeping width wise is out for me, I'm doing a self made lengthwise couch that will convert into a bed for sleeping with the top down, I agree this is a must have for the cold weather as i already spend a few nights in the penthouse bed when it was 32 degrees out....and surprise surprise it was also 32 in the van! Underneath the bed will be the water pump and fresh water tank.

I'll post some more details of future plans and progress as i go! :rally_guys:

[Roverholic]

Jeff,
Super stoked on your build up. The family and I just drove out to Aspen to check out a SMB that's for sale out there. Looking at the interior build it seems as though there is tons of room for improvement (lighter, more robust etc.). I'm in Conifer so when you get back to CO get in touch and I'll lend a hand.
Cheers,
Paul

[etbadger]

Looks very nice. When we get settled down again we will be gutting the interior and re-insulating from scratch.

We did add about 1/2" of foam insulation mat to our floor for this winter (all we could fit with the cabinetry), and it has made a world of difference in comfort from the prior winter with just a bit of carpet. We have been comfy in temperatures down to 0 outside with the top up, while last winter we dropped the top at around 10.

One thing you may wish to consider is insulation and a way of piping heat to the batteries. One of our biggest issues this winter has been the temperature of the house batteries dropping down to around 5-10 deg. (nights at about -5 to -10, days to 15 or so for a week). When charging, a cold battery requires a much higher voltage, which can mess with your electronics, and when drawing down the battery voltage will drop very fast which causes problems in the other direction. Also most of our temperature compensated stuff (inverter, charge controller, monitor) doesn't even calculate compensation below freezing.

Of course it all depends on when and where you will be using it...

[jeff@work]

Thanks Paul! I'll let you know when i head back up to Colorado...i'd say i'd be going up for the snow but it just snowed here in Scottsdale yesterday! I agree the sportsmobiles leave some room for improvement and i'm sure even after i'm "finished" building my van I'll still be finding areas to make it better.

Eric,

Any idea how fast the temperature of the battery drops? Have you come up with any ideas for heating the batteries? I would guess you're thinking of using the espar furnace to pipe heat down to it...
The only things i could think of other than that are heat tape/pad....which would wind up using electricity anyways or some way of piping some of the exhaust to hit the batteries and warm them up. Obviously both those ideas would only really work for while you're driving the van around or at least running the engine.
I would imagine with all the lead in the batteries it would take them a little while to drop in temp but on the other hand i wonder if repeatedly heating and cooling them could damage them.

[etbadger]

Eric,

Any idea how fast the temperature of the battery drops? Have you come up with any ideas for heating the batteries? I would guess you're thinking of using the espar furnace to pipe heat down to it...
The only things i could think of other than that are heat tape/pad....which would wind up using electricity anyways or some way of piping some of the exhaust to hit the batteries and warm them up. Obviously both those ideas would only really work for while you're driving the van around or at least running the engine.
I would imagine with all the lead in the batteries it would take them a little while to drop in temp but on the other hand i wonder if repeatedly heating and cooling them could damage them.

Hi Jeff,

We are running 2 4D AGM batteries for the house power. They are hanging under the body between the rocker-panel and the frame on the driver's side. Last winter I added 2" of polyurethane insulation around them, which helps quite a bit, and their daily temperature from day to night only varries about 5 to 10 degrees for a 40 degree air temp variation. Also, charging and using power warms them up a few degrees/day. In the summer they stay cooler, in the winter warmer, and variation over a day is much less than before.

The biggest problem is an extended period of cold (say 3-4 days), where they eventually get down to about the average temperature for a 24hr cycle. When we have the time I intend to build a fairly sealed battery box with vents for cabin heat to circulate around the batteries, OR coolant heat-exchange plates, and run the coolant heater every few days, though this is a less passive solution.

Last week we had to ramp the charging up to about 15.5v just to push charge in, and in the evening when drawing down the output was around 11.8, both of which precluded the use of some of our electronics as the input was out-of-range (most stuff expects around 12.6v).