86 4Runner build

[Grim Reaper]

Well I have managed to get a few projects done on my truck. Thought I would start a build thread here since this site most reflects my direction with this truck. This is actually lifted from a build post on my clubs site so you may notice a little Cut and paste flavor.


Introduction:
The truck on this project will be a 1986 Toyota 4Runner. This is the First year of the IFS trucks from Toyota for the US market.

The truck is powered by the time and 3rd world proven 22RE (fuel injected). While this motor is not considered a power house it is considered one of the most reliable motors ever built. In September of 2006 a Gentleman rolled 1,000,000 miles on a similar Toyota 2wd powered by the same engine. While the engine doesn't have the full 1,000,000 miles it does have 600,000. The engine failure was a maintenance (lack of at 400k) issue. The transmission has never been rebuilt. http://www.racetoretirement.org/

The truck has the W56 5 speed manual transmission, Toyota Gear drive case with 2.28 low range, 8 Inch Toyota rear axle and the 7.5 inch IFS front. Stock the truck is gear 4.10.

The wheel base is 103. Starting weight is under 3800lb and its about 18 inches narrower then the last rig I had (K5). Despite its size it is a well planned out rig that has good comfort. It has remarkably strong components in stock form. The 8 inch is considered every bit as strong as the us market 1/2 ton offerings. Incredible aftermarket support since this vehicle had world market. The Aussies LOVE these trucks and have come up with everything under the sun for them.

It has respectable ground Clarence in stock form.


Build philosophy.


My build style on this project is going to stray from the norm. My last truck, 1975 GMC K5 Jimmy I had I had made a very conscious decision to stay with lighter running gear. For the most part I had good luck with that truck. I formed an early alliance with www.ColoradoK5.com and was fortunate to have the opportunity to have the truck featured as one the CK5's project vehicle as a Budget wheeler. I was given the opportunity to try out many products in the process. It was a great truck and I had quite a lot of fun with it but I hit a wall in that its weight was astronomical. In trail dress it was rocking the world at 6,600lb. :uglystupid2: I could easily stall my 9500I. Mean old Mr Gravity was killing me.

I had only a few options at this point.....Skin it alive to loose weight, throw one ton axles under it or start on a new platform. With the distance we have to go to get to our trails I had wanted to tow my trail rig in case I broke it I would have a way to get it home. Well that meant the 1 ton axles were out. I really wasn't ready to make a buggy out of it....So I sold it.

In comes the 4Runner. I find I am not quite as interested in Rock crawling these days. The plan is to make the vehicle more of a long distance expedition rig. I want to do some regular cross country travel to places like Silverton CO, the Maze, Monument Valley, Baja. So the goal will be a well rounded vehicle that is capable of running down the hwy with the A/C going at 75 mph while getting good MPG and then be able to run medium challenge trails. Then be able to support multiple days of off the beaten path travel.

While I have a solid axle that would be appropriate for a SAS I plan to retain the IFS for the time being. It will have better road manners. It will work better on wash board roads and desert style travel. I can keep a lower CG with the IFS. It is already on the truck so we will go with it for now.

Goals:

Weight to be maximum 4200lb in trail dress.
Maintain economy to nearly its stock 24mpg hwy.
Good hwy manners.
Support expedition trailer.
Selectable locker, again for better balance of Hwy and off road travel.
Capable camping transport including sleeping platform.

Insperations

http://www.expeditionportal.com/
http://www.brian894x4.com/
http://www.turtleexpedition.com/
http://www.adventuretrailers.com/

Plans:
Rebuild Engine: Done
Rebuild Transmission: Done
33's. Originally plan was 33x10.5's For weight reasons. Ran across a smoking deal on a set of 33x12.5's I couldn't pass up: done
2 Inch body lift :Not done
2 inch Drive-train lift: Not done
2 inch gas tank lift: Not Done
Custom cross member to optimize break over angle after body lift: Not Done
Selectable locker: Toyota electric selectable locker Acquired but not installed
Re gear to match larger tires: looking for a good deal
Storage system with sleep platform: In progress
Dual Battery system with battery gang feature and isolator for charging: Acquiring needed materials.
Rear power window control in cargo area: not done
Marlin Crawler: Second case acquired but still need install kit
Complete outfitting with support gear: Made a 12v refrigerator capable of temperatures down to 14degrees F. Lacking thermostat to control. but otherwise working.
On-board air of some type: I have a York available but due to space constraints under the hood my go with CO2 or electric.
Electric radiator fan: Working on adapting fan off Mitsubishi product.
optimize suspension rear longer shackles and custom spring pack to increase wheel travel to 14+ inches to make up for IFS front.: Planning
Optimize IFS travel while not compromising reliability: Planning
Skid plate: either custom or Bud Built http://www.budbuilt.com/new/ifs.html
Bumpers with winch mount for HS9500i I already own: planning On hold till body lift installed
Slider: planning On hold till body lift installed.
Side body protection: On hold till body lift installed
Tire and extra fuel rack: On hold till body lift installed
Power inverter for electronics: 300watt acquired but being evaluated if large enough
Front and rear Power access/Jump points: Forklift style disconnects acquired but not installed.

Expedition trailer: I am activly collecting parts to build an aluminum body trailer. It will be its own build post once I have the axle and steel aquired.

I will post updates as projects are worked on.

Picture of truck as aquired:

[Grim Reaper]

While the first post points out I have been actively collecting parts for the truck here is the first major addition. I had to replace the UniroyalPOS's that could not be balanced and were out of round. They were real kidney beaters and had to go. I managed to find a REALLLY good deal on a set of nearly new 33 x 12.5 x 15's. I had wanted to run 33x 10.5s to keep weight down but I'm Mr Cheap and this deal presented itself. It includes two spare tires.

I had read that with a body lift and minor fender and floor modifications that 33x12.5s could be fit on the truck. I decided to see if I could fit them with no lift so I could get these bad tires off the truck.

I managed to do it with some hammer time on a pinch weld and fender lip. The key was the rims. I decided to go with a set of Aluminum rims early on because they are more likely to be true and the weight savings. If I had gone with the 10.5's then the wheel tire upgrade would have actually been lighter then the Stock steel rims and the 235x75x15's the truck wore in stock form. The stock combination came in at about 61.5lb. The 33x12.5s on AR OutlawII stock offset 15x7's weigh 68lb. As near as I can tell with what shipping weights are listed on Tire Rack the 10.5s on the same rims would have weighed about 52lb.

Got them on and they do not Rub. Hate to put a body lift on it now since its not for tire clearence but the gains with the drivetrain and fuel tank lift will be worth it.

Here is what the truck looks like on 10/20/06

[Grim Reaper]

Storage system:

The first outfitting I did to the truck was to build custom cargo panels to replace the flimsy plastic just the truck came with. I salvaged some 1/8 inch aluminum and lined the cargo bay. The passenger side rear fender has a remarkable amount of available storage in it. It currently houses a 1 gallon jug of antifreeze, 1 spare quart of motor oil, 30ft tow strap, Spare upper and lower radiator hose, 2 tie down straps and the factory tool kit. :2funny:


I also sourced a 8 inch tall drawer with a slide latch for a decommissioned service vehicle that will become the cargo system.

The drawer will have a deck that will cover it up to the rear seat with a flip up area to access cargo space between the drawer and the seat. With the rear seats folded an extension will be able to be fitted that will give a full 6.5ft long sleeping platform Similar to this: http://www.yotatech.com/showthread.php?t=38687

[Grim Reaper]

Latest recovery gear.

I have always wanted some sort of Traction mat, Sand ladder/ Bridging ladder. Well I managed to get one today. And you know me I did some horse trading in the right place deal. So a BIG zero on the spend meter. ;D

Basically what I scored was this:
http://www.terra-trax.com/

What this stuff really is, despite what that web site would have you think, is industrial grating. Its a product called Fibergrate.

http://www.fibergrate.com/product_detail.asp?id=2&pselect=1#1

Anyway One of the companies near where I work does a lot of industrial grating sales. We had a bunch of boxes we didn't need and offered them up to the neighboring businesses. I knew they had this stuff so I asked him a price on a couple pieces. He said come over and lets see what I have in the drop pile. So he slides out a piece 40x38 inches and thanks me for the boxes. :o

I need to cut it into a couple pieces. I think I am going to build a roof rack with a similar style to the Xtara and this will be the floor till its needed for recovery. I am also looking at using one piece for the sleeping deck extension I need for the storage system I am building.

Seems sturdy enough though. Didn't notice any flex with it spanning my ditch.

[Grim Reaper]

Part B of the Storage system.

Planned to have this done in time for the Trail clean up but just didn't happen. Between a couple late nights at work and poor weather the 4x4 gods did not work with me.

Part A of the storage system is side panel storage.

Bart B is the drawer and main section of the sleep platform.

The original intent was the drawer would have an aluminum top and perimeter filler. So the dogs would have a place to ride. This was when I was still planning on keeping the partition wall and either tent camping or building a new trailer. Still plan on a trailer but I decided I wanted to be able to sleep in the truck when its just me on short trips.

The first problem I found was the top of the drawer was fine for 2 40lb dogs but flexed to much with my Fat self on it. So looking around the massive pile of bits in the garage I found a couple sheets of ply. One was 3/4 birch faces and the other was a piece of 1/2 lower grade material. The 3/4 would have been stronger and I could have made it look a lot better but it was also about 50% heavier. So learning from past builds I went with the lighter material with a little design improvement to make it stronger.

The one thing I didn't get installed was the lashing rails. Still working on how I want to do that. Leaning toward a couple pieces of 1/8 2x2 aluminum angle with a bunch of holes drilled in it to hook straps on. This will also give a lip for the dogs so they don't slide their feet off and hurt themselves.

The forward compartment has no floor to keep weight down. The floor of the truck is it. I have a couple plastic baskets I think I will fit in there. The top has a couple flush mounted latches that can be opened with a quarter. So not super secure from thief's. The low use low dollar items will be housed there. Things like hand winch, Chains, large spare parts.

The whole thing is bolted to the floor with Grade 8 5/16 bolts. I need to make a locking plate for the drawer where the tools will be.

Part C will be an extension that will fill the area between the box to the front seats when the back seats are folded. This will give the sleeping area about 6.5 feet of length with the pillow against the back of the front seat.
I am thinking of using part of the Sand ladder in the previous post. I will have to throw a mat over it so it doesn't tear up my sleeping pad or bag. The down side is if that thing has been used and is covered in mud.

[Grim Reaper]

Update:

A few months ago I managed to locate a factory 4.88 front dif assembly. This week I had the cash and time to buy the 4.88's for the E-Locker I have had in a bucket for the last year. Finished setting up the gears yesterday. Ran the 3rd by a mechanic buddy's for a inspection of my work. He gave the thumbs up on my first gear set up. :Mechanic:

Today I need to pick up 2 studs for the E-locker and a couple resistors and parts to build the control circuit. and this afternoon I can pull the rear axle out from under the truck and modify it for the TRD locker.

It will be so nice not having to down shift into 3rd on the hwy when I hit a couple of the steep grades around here.:wings:

[Grim Reaper]

Didn't get as far as I had hoped last week but I did finish up with the control circuit and the gear install. It worked perfect first try! :victory:

Here is the two articles I referenced for this mod:
http://carterswebsite.com/4runner/mods/locker/
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/electric_locker/

The control circuit is actually a little bit of a mix of the two main set ups from each article. I felt the control set up of the top link was the better design but I wanted the extra status lights of the second link. I really feel this is important because if you didn't get it full unlocked you could damage the locker and without a disengage light you would never know.

The Green Status light comes on when fully locked.

The red light lets you know that locker is in progress of locking and once fully locked the Red light goes off and the Green light comes on.

The Yellow light lets you know that the locker is disengaging and once it fully disengages the light goes off.

I used a momentary switch but the circuit design uses limit switches and once it hits the limit of travel it cuts the power off by interrupting path to ground for the relay trigger. The dash switch triggers the positive. It should be fine with a standard single pole double throw switch. The Momentary (on) off (on) does add a little safety in that if you release the switch it also kills the positive to the coil.

Still mulling it over. It would be nice to just flip the switch instead of having to hold till it completes its cycle but it only takes a few seconds to cycle.

Tomorrow when I get home from work I will start yanking the axle out from under the truck and clean it up. If The weather holds and I don't have to work late I think I will have it all installed by the end of the week. Might even have time to swap in the front diff as well.

[CLynn85]

Dang, looks like you're moving right along! Cool to see an older rig getting worked over.

[ntsqd]

I thot that was you!
I can vouch for how well Mike Carter's rigs work with the E-locker. We've done a couple trips together & I understand he & my friend Craig are headed for Death Valley next week.
I see yota links pasted, so I'm guessing you already know about the various problem spots the IFS trucks have. The cure, though not in your style of spending, is Total Chaos' parts. They will fix the issues and live a long life. 85+% of the LocoMocos (http://locosmocos.com/)are toyota drivers running TC parts.

[Grim Reaper]

I thot that was you!
I can vouch for how well Mike Carter's rigs work with the E-locker. We've done a couple trips together & I understand he & my friend Craig are headed for Death Valley next week.
I see yota links pasted, so I'm guessing you already know about the various problem spots the IFS trucks have. The cure, though not in your style of spending, is Total Chaos' parts. They will fix the issues and live a long life. 85+% of the LocoMocos (http://locosmocos.com/)are toyota drivers running TC parts.

Yeah I know the weaknesses. I carry a spare idler arm and shaft. I won’t lock the front just to be easy on it. Honestly in stock form before the locker I was quite impressed how well it was doing on the types of trails I like. I'm not really looking to rock crawl so even though I have a solid front axle ready to go I think I will stick with the IFS. I really like the TC and other long travel set ups but not in the budget right now.

The 4.88 E-locker is in and it finally got off jack stands last night. Boy it feels great in 1st and 2nd gear now. Still have air in the lines and it was dark so I need to bleed them again tonight and then I can get the gears broke in over the next couple days. I need to get the wiring in the truck as well. Its built and tested on the bench but I have been running it on a Astron power supply.

Off next week so the front diff will go in then. Adding a rear lower control arm brace as well. I have the front suspension off a buddies truck so I am going to put the front brackets on the rear mounts and modify the removable brace to clear the pinion. Then I can put a piece of plate on it for a little protection.

[DaveInDenver]

Re: rear A-arm brace. Do you have one already? I have a Downey sitting in my garage and need to do something about getting that on.

BTW, I bought the Total Chaos idler arm, it certainly solves that weakness and probably one place where I have absolutely no doubt that the replacement part is head and shoulders better than the Toyota part (I'm really down on non-OEM parts at the moment, so you might take the T.C. thumbs-up very seriously).

[ntsqd]

One of the first of the TC idlers to go on a LMc rig (that I co-dog'd) immediately ran ~2k miles of drive/pre-run/chase/pit for the Baja 1000 w/o any trouble.

I agree, it is a rare non OE part that exceeds any OE spec. Drew's idler arm gusset was a good first step, but this part would be my first mod on an IFS truck.

[Grim Reaper]

The factory arm was bent when I bought the truck. I replaced it with a TRW or Moog from Autozone that looks a LOT stronger then stock. So far so good. If it gives me issues more then every year (lifetime warranty part) I plan on running one of the Beefed up arms from TC or Downey.


Got her on the road last night. the 4.88's are great! Get the front done this weekend and go wheel it!

Hay I hope to get my act together and do some traveling. Hoped to make the first trip this year. Torn between CO by way of Dallas and San Angelo TX and then catch up with AZBlazer/76Chalet for the Blazer bash or running down to Phoenix to give Robzilla and my old room mate a hard time. Let you know and maybe catch up with you and have dinner if I get that far west. My club is also planning a run to Moab and the dates may be close to Blazer Bash. Might shoot to run White Rim in between those two events.

Hope to make a run down to Baja at some point as well in the next couple years.

[Grim Reaper]

Got the front diff in. Did a couple modifications as well.

The front diff is a factory 4.88 from a 93 that had Auto tranny and the 31 inch tire option. It has ADD and while I could have easily swapped it to a solid driver side I decided to keep it. The reason is I am going to hook it up because it will allow me to kill the drive to the front wheels without getting out. So it will give me 2 low. If I need to cross some pavement then back into soft conditions a quick flip of the switch and the front axle is disconnected.

It will also allow me to do "digs". A "dig" is basically power breaking. Front wheels locked rear wheels spinning. What you can do is walk the back wheels sideways by steering with the front wheels locked if you need to reposition the truck for a better line. You can do it by unlocking a hub but now I can do it by flipping a switch. :bigbossHL:

Next trick: When I picked up the diff I notices two of the bolts for the half shaft were out. Asked the guy about it and he got a big grin on his face and told me why.

In stock configuration if you bust a CV you have jack the truck up remove the wheel and unbolt the lower ball joint. That will allow you to swing the hub out enough to get the half shaft out.

With two bolts removable you can get the half shaft out by fully extending the suspension and turning the wheel to the lock. That will let you have just enough room to worm it out without even taking the wheel off. Just put the opposite side up on a rock to get the broken side fully extended. The front wheels were on stands so I couldn't crank the wheel but using the jack to extend the suspension I can almost get the CV past the flange so it looks like it will work. :ylsmoke:

So I pressed two of the bolts out and filed off the knurls that retain them so they can be pushed out by hand. Just have to use a wrench on both the nut and bolt but no big deal.

Now I did one other modification. See if you can figure it out. Those with 86-95's will probably catch it. I don't think Taco's are set up the same so it might not be obvious to you guys.

[DaveInDenver]

I did the bolt trick, except I pressed all 12 bolts out of the drive flanges and replaced all of them with bolts when the locker was getting set up. I found just 2 bolts is just irritating and pulling all 6 makes the removal completely brainless. Plus now all the fasteners are the same, I'm just neurotic that way.

You added a rear IFS brace. By the looks of it it's a stock front that you welded in? Planning on a diff skid or something else to bolt in there?

[Grim Reaper]

You added a rear IFS brace. By the looks of it it's a stock front that you welded in? Planning on a diff skid or something else to bolt in there?
Yep.

I like Budbuilt skids. Should still work the way I did that. http://www.budbuilt.com/new/ifs.html

If I don't get one of those I will make one that bolts off the cross members.

[DaveInDenver]

This is a Taco, but this is more or less what I'd like to do.

http://www.budbuilt.com/new/images/Taco_skids3.JPG

But just one of his cross members with a skid really eliminates the need for a belly pan. Then add a front skid that is similar to a stock but extends under the diff will be more than sufficient for anyone not hard core crawling. I have a Downey IFS truss and am trying to sell it because I'd like to put a rear IFS truss that is square so I can end up like this.

http://www.budbuilt.com/new/BudTacoSkid1sm.JPG

[Grim Reaper]

That's a nice set up.

I want to flat belly with a 4Crawler 2 inch body and 2 inch engine. Bud will do custom crossmember belly skids for that. It ends up nearly flat.

My big worry is drainage. Lot of mud here. The stock front chin pan was full of mud from one ride. My tank skid on my last truck was always full of mud. Just can't seem to figure out a way to drain thats not going to also hang rocks.

Did you see 4rnrRicks Project Quasimodo build on pirate and the flat belly he did? Pretty slick but it sure looked heavy and prone to filling with mud.

[DaveInDenver]

Pretty slick but it sure looked heavy and prone to filling with mud.
That's why I'd rather not have a full belly skid. Well, first, I don't need one since I'm not a hard core rock crawler. But they make maintenance a pain, they make keeping your truck clean a pain, they are heavy, gotta be painted all the time. Nah, I'll stick with the original plan of enhancing the stock setup. A better front skid, a lower profile crossmember with a better transfer skid plate and a set of sliders. All of this is heavy, but is functionally a step up without adding 200 lbs of steel that then makes changing tranny fluid hard anyway. I'm willing to double the weight of the front skid plate & crossmember and add a decent skid plate in place of the tranny/xfer tin plate. So I might add 30 lbs over stock (probably a wash, the stock crossmember is heavy). Add 40 lbs for sliders and I'm not cutting into my payload much. As it is fully loaded I'm at 5400 lbs and bolting on all that steel will have me pushing 5700 or 5800 lbs.

[Grim Reaper]

Weight is a very good point. It was the big reason I decided to get rid of my last truck and start over with this truck.

[ntsqd]

There's a name I haven't seen since my days on the ORC yota list. Back when that was the source for yota info and Pirate was one of those up-start "forum" thingies. I remember when he first posted about the replacement frame project.
FWIW Pirate was full of attitude then too.

BudBuilt's x-members must work OK to enjoy the rep they have, but the engineer in me cringes at the design. Can't help but be unnecessarily heavy if they're going to have any stiffness to them. A tube would be stiffer & lighter at only a small cost in GC.

My plan for Patch, the Wonder Yota, is to use Front Range Offroad Fab's plate that bolts to the rear of the t/c and fab a x-member to run behind (rather than under) the t/c and put a single Hega for the rear mount at the bottom of the FROR plate.
Given the few times I've ever hit the stock x-member I am tempted to hang a 3/16" 2024 Aluminum skid off the stock t/c mount bolt holes (I'll have two sets of those when I'm done).

[Grim Reaper]

The problem with tube is you more or less add up to 2 inches below the case to make it. Bud's set up adds 3/8's of an inch. His set up will also let me go a head and buy a doubler crossmember but I can run a single till I have the money.

The mount off the tail cross members I am a little Leary of because you are now asking the aluminum case to support the weight of the truck if you land on the skid mounted to the case.

Not 100% set on Buds but For what it is its not a bad price and I like the low profile.

Now you want to see a JUNK cross member at its best...Go look at a CJ. I was helping a buddy weld in new blind nuts in his frame rails and we had to take a high lift to squeeze the factory plate into something close to original shape to get it back on the truck.

[ntsqd]

X-member would be behind the t/c, not under it. This (http://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/nfoscomm/catalog/images/My-camera-026_main.jpg?osCsid=829c49aad4415b762be9e97be26e6c 42) is the plate I'd use. One of these (http://autofab.com/T103ba1.JPG) would become the rear trans-t/c mount.

Yes, that's the reason I'm only tempted at this point & not commited to bolting the skid there. I don't run the Hammers in Patch, have no intention of trying it. Ranks right up there with watching ball sports on the boredom scale.
I rarely if ever hit the stock t/c x-member. Not sure if it matters, but Patch is a LA truck, not an IFS truck.

[Grim Reaper]

Got it out on the trail yesterday to try out the locker and 4.88's. WOW....just WOW!!!!!!!
Now I wasn't rock crawling it but I was running some challenging trails and it just went everywhere I pointed it. I was following a buddy in a Unlimited Rubicon and I had no trouble keeping up and in a couple places he had more trouble then I did. That said we never had to pull cable or straps (both of us have winches (under our respective work benches LOL)

I also did another quick mod last week to get a little lift in the rear. I did the Napo/Zuk helper spring lift.

http://www.gearinstalls.com/dc.htm

http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=811919&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1

Old Toys are REAL bad about getting a saggy butt. When I bought this truck it was literally riding on the bump stops empty. No broken leafs but it had been used as a truck and it had sagged BAD. Right away I added a leaf from a set of stock K5 springs I had in the junk pile. It help tremendously. Rode much better and get about 3-4 inches between the bump stop. Well once I got my normal trail get in it the rear was back to being on the low side again and I didn't even have my camping gear in it yet. :rolleyes:

So in my normal cheap way I hit up a buddy who had recently put a lift on his 2 door Unlimited. I knew he would have his old springs in his junk pile. 2 hours later I netted 2.5 inches of lift. Got that stink bug stance now. :punk03:

I may pull the extra leaf out and see if it will come down about 1/2-3/4 inch. I am worried that if I take the top off the rear will really come up. Other then that concern I am pretty happy with the free lift. The ride improved even more with it off the over load leafs.

No problems with it off road. The springs are not long enough to stay in full contact with the springs but there is NO way they will fall out or get out of place. It took removing the shock and a 12 ton bottle jack to push down the leafs and then a crow bar to pop them over the snubber to get them on. They are going nowhere.

It did make axle wrap a little worse since the overloads are not my main support so I will be looking at a fabricating or buying an anti wrap bar. Something like this if not just buying this one.
http://www.budbuilt.com/new/traction_bars.html

One poser picture while I wait to see what pictures others have of our offroading event yesterday. Couples shots of the Napo/Zuk Lift.

[ntsqd]

I had similar issues going on with Patch, the wonder yota. Eventually I went to the GM 65" rear springs using WFO mounts, U-bolts & spring plates, and shackles. I used the longer three leaves with the yota overloads turned upside down. I also ditched the stock rubber bumps (one actually ditched me!) in favor of the nismo units. Night & day difference. Can now give pre-rnnr's a run for their money with my old LA.

[Grim Reaper]

That may be the way I eventually go but for now this is a free fix with very minimal effort. If I SAS I will be going that way for sure.

[ntsqd]

F-R-E-E is my kind of price!

Were you closer to the left coast I'd offer you a ride in Patch. I was amazed at the difference. The springs were free and Trevor & I were at Chico State together. I've no idea if he cut me a deal or not, but the total cost of the conversion wasn't much.
Now to get the 7100's sorted out.....

BTW, Patch is set up similar, 4.88's and a Detroit x Lockrite. I've been pretty amazed at where I can go with that combo. Essentially a stock truck with those two changes makes for a pretty impressive rig.
There are times I wish for something like the E-locker in the rear, but not so much that I'm willing to spend that kind of cash on one. There have also been many times I wished Patch was an IFS truck, but that's a whole other can of worms.....

[Grim Reaper]

Time for an update. Nasty rainy day today so stuck inside.

I have been doing a little tinkering here and there. Finally got my GPS Navigation set up complete With a Used laptop, some software.

I am running my Garmin GPSV as a receiver with a mag mount antenna on the hood. That keeps my Accuracy around 10ft. Problem is it only has 19megs of memory so I either have to reload often on trips or selectively load where I am going. Was sort of a bummer when you didn't have the nice stuff like Restaurant finder.

From that I am feeding old Compaq 7800 Armada I picked up from work when they sold off my old shop. Can't beat a $10 laptop. Only 8 Gig drive but it really does serve my needs. This laptop is only going to be used for navigation, some Internet access with a Aircard of data link from my phone and on rare occasions I might make a dump from the camera but with extra memory cards that will be pretty limited. The biggest downs side is it is a heavy old laptop. That might me an advantage since it is obviously old it might make it less attractive to a thief.

It had NT on it and that was causing me issues. I finally ran across a OS for the right price...FREE. Somebody I knew had a couple new copies of Win2000 Pro with the registration that were going to get tossed since they are out of date on the systems they were original bought for 6-7 years ago. I actually like it and it seems very stable.

The GPSV came with Mapsource 4.01. It was Ok but is didn't have a few features like Keeping the direction traveling at the top of the screen. I got pointed at a free down load to Garmin nRoute. It fixes ALL the complaints I had with the Mapsource software. It also has the voice directions that the wife and I are having great fun with.

I used a old Gamber Johnson mount that came out of a Decomed truck and was headed for the trash. http://www.gamberjohnson.com/index.php

I had to abandoned the actual mount for the laptop becasue of the size and the location of the gimble mount on it. Because of my old laptop I needed to shift the forward about 2 inches and it simply didn't have the mount in the right position to do that without adding a second bracket extension that would also add another inch to the height. I went with a piece of 3/4 ply wood and some industrial Velcro. I plan to replace that with a piece of aluminum plate at some point.

I had to pull the forward part of the center console to get to a place I could mount the assembly on. The 4Runner has a heating duct that blows under the seat for the rear seat passengers so that meant I couldn't mount off the side of the tunnel easily. The shift boots on that part were leather and in really bad shape after 21 years. I have future plans that made its days numbered anyway. Little clean up on the boot plate and paint and it won't look to bad with just the rubber boots the leather boots on the removed console covered.

The GJ mount is nice in the fact that with no tools I can remove the head when not in use. I have a second one of these mounts I plan to put in our Suburban tow rig where it will be a lot less of a space problem.

Excuse the mess, We are in a major drought and outdoor water ban. My truck is a pigsty inside and out as a result. The Inverter is my travel one for use in my work truck. I will be replacing it with one permanently mounted in the back so I don't have the cooling fan noise bugging me all the time. Temporary I ran a second cig plug to the battery to power this one. The factory cig plug is wired with 16 or 18 gage and simply not up to the draw of a inverter so I had to get power from the battery.

I have some clean up on the mount as well now that I have the mounting points picked. The brackets will be painted black. The Gray bracket will be cut down and welded to the vertical tube. The place it is mounted on the side of the dash is actually where the factory screw is that hods the lower dash to a metal mounting bracket. It is a very sturdy point on the dash that required no holes drilled.

[lionsbreath]

This is a build up I can get behind. I have a 87 4Runner with a 22re that I am starting to build. I was thinking of building a custom jerry can holder that works with the spare tire winch to hold the two cans where the spare sits and then building a custom rear tire carrier.

[Grim Reaper]

This is a build up I can get behind. I have a 87 4Runner with a 22re that I am starting to build. I was thinking of building a custom jerry can holder that works with the spare tire winch to hold the two cans where the spare sits and then building a custom rear tire carrier.
I will be building a spare tire carrier as well and probably one Fuel can on the back or on the roof and a Water can o nthe back. Something like this.

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13139&d=1197689419


There is an aftermarket Aux tank that mounts above the factory spare location but it is quite pricey.

I may be removing the storage drawer. My desire is to sleep in the truck in close by trips and the deck makes it about impossible to sit up. So I am thinking of going to in floor storage like this. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=291387
That truck is bobbed so on a stock truck you could get two of those in the floor with the spare tire moved out.

[sami]

i'm planning on doing the rear trunk as well in my '87 4runner... i've just recently been toying with ideas on a two layer box, the bottom as an aux fuel tank, and top half cargo trunk...

total dimensions of 14x13x30, and split it for 6x13x30(fuel), and 8x13x30(dry storage).. that's 2,340CI or 10.12 gallons of aux fuel, and 3,120CI's or 13.5 gallons of dry storage. I like it anyways... :)

Nice build so far, i've been keepin my eye on it. I'll post up my '87 once it's worthy to grace these pages.

-Jason

[GroversYota]

i'm planning on doing the rear trunk as well in my '87 4runner... i've just recently been toying with ideas on a two layer box, the bottom as an aux fuel tank, and top half cargo trunk...

total dimensions of 14x13x30, and split it for 6x13x30(fuel), and 8x13x30(dry storage).. that's 2,340CI or 10.12 gallons of aux fuel, and 3,120CI's or 13.5 gallons of dry storage. I like it anyways... :)

Nice build so far, i've been keepin my eye on it. I'll post up my '87 once it's worthy to grace these pages.

-Jason

Nice build! Did your fuel milage change from stock being geared for the larger tires?

[Grim Reaper]

Stopping is good! Wish my truck would stop! :yikes:

Few weeks ago my wife and I decided to sell one of our three drivers. And of course as soon as we sell one and no longer have a "Back up" available things start tearing up when I can't just drive the extra vehicle and fix at my leisure.

We had to put our 454 Suburban back on DD duties (the Honda was sold since it couldn't pull the camper and was not 4wd). So last week the Burb starts leaking power steering fluid from the high pressure hose. Ended up spending most of my weekend on that. I have been driving it making sure it is not going to give my wife any problems before turning her loose in it. She has been driving my 4Runner

Thursday I get a call from her that the brakes feel funny....Not good. Master cylinder is done. Looks to be original so hay 22 years and 220k I can't really complain.

In fine tradition this means TIME FOR AN UPGRADE!!!!!!!!!! :wings:

Toyota changes brakes with engine size. a 4cyl will have smaller capacity brakes then a 6 Cyl. Toyota really built to "just enough" on the brake system. Throw in some 33's and my 4cyl truck just did not have great brakes. Add a trailer...it was border line dangerous. Stopping distance was starting to get pretty long.

After some research I found a few things out.
86-95 appear to have the same knuckle.
86-89 used the same front rotors
90-91 used a little thinker rotor.
92-95 was even thicker.

Thicker rotor means more heat capacity and less warp tenedency.

The turbo and V6 trucks did have calipers with larger pistons then the 4cyl trucks. Again their width determined by the rotor.

So what I will be doing tomorrow is installing 92 Rotors and calipers on the front. Simple shoe change in the back.

Some of my reading I ran across a few that say as long as I keep the rear brake adjusted up I should not have any problem running the 4cyl master (and this saves me from also having to put a V6 booster on it. The theory is the smaller master will generate more pressure to the larger pistons.This will make the peddle lighter effort with more braking power.

Where the problem comes in is if there is enough fluid capacity to handle the larger pistons.

Should have the sorted out by Sunday at the latest.

[ntsqd]

Over the years I've had folks swear that the V6 calipers have larger pistons. None of my parts books confirm this, they all say that the V6 & 4cyl caliper piston size is the same. So I don't know what to think. I don't doubt them, but I wonder what the source of their intel is. One of these days I guess I should buy a V6 caliper & take it apart.

The real advantage of a thicker rotor is two-fold. The greater thermal mass means that it takes longer to reach a given temperature. And the larger vents in the middle allow it to cool off faster.

[Grim Reaper]

Over the years I've had folks swear that the V6 calipers have larger pistons. None of my parts books confirm this, they all say that the V6 & 4cyl caliper piston size is the same. So I don't know what to think. I don't doubt them, but I wonder what the source of their intel is. One of these days I guess I should buy a V6 caliper & take it apart.

The real advantage of a thicker rotor is two-fold. The greater thermal mass means that it takes longer to reach a given temperature. And the larger vents in the middle allow it to cool off faster.


I started looking around after reading your post and I think I see where the issue is and I think you are correct.

I have always read V6 had bigger "caliper" and everybody says to ask for 90's V6 parts but It looks wrong that it is a V6 difference on the caliper.

I went through some of the online parts places like Autozone and Parts America. You are correct that they show the same calipers for 4cyl and 6cyl.

It looks like a year change where the calipers got larger.

Where the caliper change comes is mid 89. It starts showing a different rotor and caliper. If the images are correct you can see where the early 89 back use callipers with two big pistons and two small pistons. Late 89 up through 91 are all showing 4 large pistons and different rotor and again a caliper and rotor change in 92 but showing 4 large pistons.

I bet 92 is the start of the 31 inch tire option. That is probably the biggest ones available. Now I wonder if I have enough master cylinder.

The parts store had the 86-to 3/89 rotors in stock and the 92-95. The disc is at least a 1/4 inch thicker maybe 3/8's. A LOT more meat to it. Diameter is the same. They didn't have any parts for the late 89-91 for me to look at to see what is different for those years. I bet the thickness is it.

I will get pictures of the rotors and calipers today when I start swapping them out.

Here is something I am finding different: The Turbo trucks and V6 are showing a different master cylinder and booster over the 4cyl through early 89. Doesn't seem to carry through to the 4/89 up trucks They all seem to spec the same. Maybe thats where the 4Cyl vs V6 confusion comes in. Wish they listed Bore size so we could figure out just how much of a change it was.

This is interesting though becasue I have read the 90 up booster is not a direct swap. The linkage is different is what I read. The 5/89 up Boosters through 95 show the same. Is 5/89 the actual build date when they body changed?

The 3/89 down v6/turbo Master and booster should be a bolt in. That's good to know if I run into a issue with enough fluid volume.

[corax]

The 3/89 down v6/turbo Master and booster should be a bolt in. That's good to know if I run into a issue with enough fluid volume.


the master cylinder bore size is usually cast into the part on the outside. a direct bolt in (for my '88 4runner with 4 bolt mount) with a bigger bore is the '94 non-ABS Landcruiser master cylinder. Just make sure if you get one, you get the fluid reservoir with it. I think, but not sure, the difference is 5/8" vs 3/4"

[Grim Reaper]

the master cylinder bore size is usually cast into the part on the outside. a direct bolt in (for my '88 4runner with 4 bolt mount) with a bigger bore is the '94 non-ABS Landcruiser master cylinder. Just make sure if you get one, you get the fluid reservoir with it. I think, but not sure, the difference is 5/8" vs 3/4"

Did you keep the stock 88 booster?
4cyl or V6 88?
How is the peddle feel?

[corax]

Did you keep the stock 88 booster?
4cyl or V6 88?
How is the peddle feel?

Actually I was wrong. '94 FJ80 Lancruiser non ABS master cylinder has a 1" bore, not sure what the original 4runner bore is, but it is cast onto the side.

originally mine was a 4cyl. direct mount onto the original booster. I was going to do this, but changed my mind - most report a firmer pedal (less travel to take up the "slack" but less hydraulic leverage, so you have to push a bit harder). Marlin Crawler sells them with this description:

Replacement master cylinder for older Pickup's and 4Runners with smaller bore (bore size is cast into right side of housing). Fits 1979-1995 Pickup/4Runner. Features 1" piston and residual valves for both front and rear. Works with both drum and disc brakes. Bolt on installation. Includes reservoir. On 1979-1985 Trucks and 4Runners the smaller factory bore works fine with stock, solid front rotors and 8" rear drums. If you upgrade the rear to larger 1986 and up, 10" drums and/or upgrade the front to a vented style caliper you will want to install a 1" bore master cylinder like this one for additional volume.
(http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/brakes/mcylinder.htm)

[Grim Reaper]

Actually I was wrong. '94 FJ80 Lancruiser non ABS master cylinder has a 1" bore, not sure what the original 4runner bore is, but it is cast onto the side.

originally mine was a 4cyl. direct mount onto the original booster. I was going to do this, but changed my mind - most report a firmer pedal (less travel to take up the "slack" but less hydraulic leverage, so you have to push a bit harder). Marlin Crawler sells them with this description:

Replacement master cylinder for older Pickup's and 4Runners with smaller bore (bore size is cast into right side of housing). Fits 1979-1995 Pickup/4Runner. Features 1" piston and residual valves for both front and rear. Works with both drum and disc brakes. Bolt on installation. Includes reservoir. On 1979-1985 Trucks and 4Runners the smaller factory bore works fine with stock, solid front rotors and 8" rear drums. If you upgrade the rear to larger 1986 and up, 10" drums and/or upgrade the front to a vented style caliper you will want to install a 1" bore master cylinder like this one for additional volume.
(http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/brakes/mcylinder.htm)

86 had a few differences over 85. The brakes were changed considerably from the bigger brakes noted above (and I think the rears on mine are 11 inches), vented front discs as well.. My 86 master will be bigger then the 85 down. I will check to see what the bore is tomorrow and report back.

Firm peddle I don't mind as long as you can still reasonably exert enough pressure to get them to lock down. I just need to be reasonable as my 90lb wife also drives this truck.

[Grim Reaper]

What a day!

Turns out the no peddle is a blown rear wheel cylinder not the master.

Played HELL trying to find wheel cylinders. Seems after hitting 5 auto parts stores and all 5 having to order for a 86. I asked for a 87 just out of curiosity. Those were in stock and wouldn't you know it they are the correct ones.

On my way home I started thinking about the brake shoes and how bad the fit the drum. They matched the curve on the ones I pulled off that were wore out in the middle. I had to pass the parts store I bought them from so I decided to stope to see if it showed a different part number for 87 over 86....Sure did!

Ran home got the shoes I bought and brought a drum along to check fit and the 87's fit like they should.

Every part I have bought for this rear axle is for a 87. Everybody's data base is ABSOULUTY wrong for 86 4Runners. I think they all have the parts listed as a 2wd. The weird part is the Wheel bearings are listed as inner and outer....Its a single sealed bearing and its the same bearing as a 85 and a 87.

So all the running around and then cleaning up the mess from the blown wheel cylinder pretty well shot the day and I didn't even get into the fronts. Truck is back on the road as the wife has running around to do this week and so do I so I couldn't leave it apart. I will mess with the fronts next weekend.


Still undecided if I want to swap the master now that I found the real source of the problem. I think I will not install it and see how the brakes work first and if they work fine then I will just return it. If they don't have enough volume with the factory 13/16 master I will look at the 1 inch 94 LC master corax recommended.

[Grim Reaper]

Got some more work done and one side on ready to go.

So far everything has been a bolt on. The only modification I had to do is cut about 1/4 inch off each edge of the dust shield to clear the caliper.

The 92 Calipers are a LOT bigger. The pad is significantly bigger as well.

The 86 lead pistons are 1 1/8" and the second piston is 1 1/2". The 92's all 4 are 1 5/8". The Rotor is a full 1/4 inch thicker.

I am still concerned that the Master will have the fluid capacity to deal with them. The master is bad it turns out but I plan to run it just long enough to determine if I need to go up the the 1 inch LC master.

After a quick gravity bleed on the wheel I have done if I managed to clear all the air then the travel is a little excessive and will only get worse with the second wheel.

[corax]

So from what I'm reading, it's all simple bolt on? bolt the '92 rotor onto the original hub, bolt the '92 calipers & pads onto the original knuckle, did you have to do anything with the brake lines or just reuse the old ones?

I think I have a new list of stuff to look for on the next junkyard excursion.:Mechanic:

[Grim Reaper]

100% interchangeable parts. Hoses in the right place all mounting points line up and correct fittings. The only modification that had to be done is trim a 1/4 inch off each side of the dust shield to clear the larger caliper.

The front suspension on the mini truck and 4Runner was all the same 86-95. No changes at all except I understand that the Sway bar was different for Auto and Manual.


Today was hell. :violent-smiley-031:

Got out there at 10am fully intent on having this completed by 3PM for the test drive. Got the driver-side assembled. Started bleeding and kept getting air. Put a Vacuum on it and pumped the brakes. Started thinking I was sucking air around the threads of the bleeder. Closed it off fired it up and the peddel keeps going to the floor. I look and fluid dripping off the caliper and I trace it back to one of the pistons is leaking. :mad:

Of course the store I bought them at has not bothered to restock in the week since I bought mine. The store 6-7 miles up the road has it and they put it on hold for me. I get there everything is going dandy. Trying not to be pissed that this part is bad and not take it out on the counter person. I'm being decent even for the "normal" multiple stops to get what you need way of doing buisness" that seems to be the norm now. They pull me up in the computer, pull the part and we go into a steep down hill slide from there.

The computer is hosed up and they cannot complete the exchange even though they could clearly see that I bought it in their system. They are totally helpless. 20 minutes of disservice and being told to hold on a second as they help other customers (9) and I start to loose my temper about it.

They have no back up plan to manually complete the transaction. They will not let me leave with the part. Multiple phone calls trying to get help, pass the buck back and forth between the two managers trying to figure out why they cannot complete the transaction.

At 30 minutes I blow it with the guy and give it to him. "You are failing to provide good service. He starts with the appeasing tone and acting like this is my problem, I need to wait and it makes me more ill. I tell him "This problem is on your end. Give me the part. Take down what ever info you need so that once you figure out what is wrong with your computer you can complete the transaction without wasting any more of my time. You have already wasted over 2 hours of my time with having to remove your out of box failure, Blow through $6 in fuel chasing this part. Lost the fluid that you will not offer to replace at $3 a pint. I have somewhere to be so I will not be able to finish the job today. No sir you have failed to take care of me and in fact you have ended up also wasting my wife's time tomorrow when she has to drive me to work tomorrow if she need her car or she will be stranded at home. You are into me and my wife for well over 4 hours of time at this point!"

They guy is helpless and after another 10 minutes he does what I ask and realizes how bad of service he and the other manager have done and apologizes.

What happened to common sense and taking care of the customer?

I get home throw it on. It bleeds out perfectly. No leak. Take it for a drive with the known bad master to see if it has the capacity to do the job before I put the new one of the same size on that I picked up. Lots of peddle travel and it gets to the spot where the masters internal leak is bad. I will need to go to the bigger master to get the peddle back up to an acceptable point.

The test drive however was good, even with the bad master I can lock the front 33x12.5s at will. :hehe:

Only a hour and a half late to Mom's for dinner (that we were bringing) and to set up her new printer. She was understanding.

Then to top it off I take the 13/16 master back by the store I bought it from on the way home. I'm in with a smile on my face receipt in hand to swap and get the 94 FJ 80 LC 1 inch unit. They don't have it. But he checks what stores do have it and the one by my office has it. I'm fine with that and I do not get ill about it.

I ask if I should return the one in hand here he says that "they could just do the exchange at the other store". No problem. I confirm the location again with smile on my face and head for the door.

So my wife is sitting in the truck with a clear view of the counter and me. I hop in the truck. My wife asks what happened in there? Did you and him have a problem?

"No, everything was fine but I need to swap this out at the store by my office. Why?"

Well it seems this guy flipped me off to my back as I was leaving is what she tells me. WTF???????? I called the store and got the 2nd manager...the other guy that was there and the same guy that sold me the master as well as the wheel cylinders. He was also helping me and in fact who confirmed the store I needed to go to tomorrow. He went into kiss butt and apologize mode after I told him what my wife had seen.

I just don't get it anymore.

[ntsqd]

I want to plug these bore sizes into my spreadsheet at home. I'm wondering how much total system leverage you've gained in the process.

I'm guessing that you made it apparent to all that he was the arse that he was, and now he's upset. Too darned bad. Maybe he should consider some other line of work. CS in any industry is not an easy job. I've done it And I'm glad that I don't do it any more.

One thing I'm unclear on though, you used both the caliper & the rotor from a '92 application? I thought the net had it that the rotor offset was wrong and wouldn't align with the stock caliper mounting ears.

[Grim Reaper]

I want to plug these bore sizes into my spreadsheet at home. I'm wondering how much total system leverage you've gained in the process.

One thing I'm unclear on though, you used both the caliper & the rotor from a '92 application? I thought the net had it that the rotor offset was wrong and wouldn't align with the stock caliper mounting ears.
the Knuckle 86-95 is identical. I loosely installed the 92 caliper over the 86 rotor to verify it was centered. Its in the above pictures. Works perfect. :smiley_drive:

[ntsqd]

Doh!! My bad. I'm forgetting yours is IFS. Where the offset issue pops up is in using these parts on a LA.

[corax]

I think I'll skip the JunkYard this time for this mod. AutoZone lists the calipers and rotors at ~$33 a piece + core for the calipers. By the way, thanks much for the info. Since you're upgrading the front brakes, you'll need to do the rears next, right?
full floater conversion w/ Supra disc brakes (http://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/nfoscomm/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=94&osCsid=222e3d027ffbe9369195223153c1992e) ;)

[Grim Reaper]

I think I'll skip the JunkYard this time for this mod. AutoZone lists the calipers and rotors at ~$33 a piece + core for the calipers. By the way, thanks much for the info. Since you're upgrading the front brakes, you'll need to do the rears next, right?
full floater conversion w/ Supra disc brakes (http://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/nfoscomm/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=94&osCsid=222e3d027ffbe9369195223153c1992e) ;)
Actually I have a set of disc and calipers off the rear of a Trooper in a box for the conversion. $25 from the junkyard. :elkgrin: You need the Pins and hardware for that 92 as well. the pins for the 91 and older are not long enough.

Some more info. I'm kind of screwed at this point. AZ and the chain stores do not have a Reservoir to fit the 94 LC master. One of the guys that works at my local AZ was a Toyota dealer mechanic I have him looking for a reservoir or I'm junkyarding in the next couple days.

Another thing I found out is 5/89-1995 all run the same 1 inch bore master. Everything, LC, T100, 4 Runner, truck etc...all the same.

[ntsqd]

Interesting results from the spreadsheet. In actual mechanical * hyd leverage this new system (w/ 1" master) is lower.
Old (stock): 63:1
Old (13/16" m/c w/ new calipers): 70:1 (No wonder it stops well!)
New (1" m/c): 47:1

The fly in the ointment is the booster. My recomendation (based on the known to only be partly accurate parts books in my library) would be to use the '92's 15/16" bore master (53:1).
I'll venture that the '92's booster diaphram is slightly larger, or that the 92's brake pedal has more ratio than the earlier trucks (my '84 = 4.4:1).

[Grim Reaper]

Interesting results from the spreadsheet. In actual mechanical * hyd leverage this new system (w/ 1" master) is lower.
Old (stock): 63:1
Old (13/16" m/c w/ new calipers): 70:1 (No wonder it stops well!)
New (1" m/c): 47:1

The fly in the ointment is the booster. My recomendation (based on the known to only be partly accurate parts books in my library) would be to use the '92's 15/16" bore master (53:1).
I'll venture that the '92's booster diaphram is slightly larger, or that the 92's brake pedal has more ratio than the earlier trucks (my '84 = 4.4:1).
WOW that much of a change for 3/16's of diameter?

Thats what I was worried about. I wanted a softer peddle. Just too much travel with the 13/16. Feels like it is nearly at the floor. :(

Is the 15/16 a 4cyl spec? Cross refferencing on Advance auto parts website the part number I have is shown for all 89 up to 95 6cyl trucks without ABS.

You are figuring the piston surface area verses the master diameter to get that? Does that figure in the 7/8's rear's or just the math for the front?


Maybe it won't be too bad since the larger calipers will have more friction surface. I guess we will see. If it is to much I will have to start looking for a 89 v6 4Runner booster. That will be a bolt up and the first of the 1 inch masters.

[ntsqd]

All based on piston area, which has that pesky exponent in it and is why it has such a large effect. The booster is a bad enough complication (rare is the race car with one), drum brakes' servo-action is not something I've ever had any math modeling education on.

Though I doubt in this case it would work against you, keep in mind that apparently identical boosters from different applications can have different boost vs. pedal effort curves. The booster for Mom's grocery getter Pontiac 4 door may look the same as the one on the GTP, but the performance curve of the internal valving will be different because of the different nature of the use of the car. I would expect that a 4rnnr's booster to have a slightly more aggressive boost vs. pedal effort curve than one for a truck due to the expected type of driver. So if the 4rnnr booster proves to be have too low pedal effort for your taste, one from a truck might be closer to what you're looking for.

FWIW I've found a lot of good brake info in this book: http://www.cartechbooks.com/vstore/showdetl.cfm?DID=6&Product_ID=2923&CATID=3

[Grim Reaper]

I had not looked at the truck on the booster to see if it spec’s any different. Advance Autoparts site has a feature that show what it fits.
Plugging in a 1989 4Runner that booster fits 89-93 4Runner 89-95 truck 93-94 T100.

Might be time for a Junkyard run for the booster and reservoir.

Funny but my Booster may have a problem. I managed to stall the engine at idle pumping the brakes rapidly.

I guess I'm in with both feet at this point LOL.

[Grim Reaper]

Made it by a junk yard today and had to buy a whole used worthless master cylinder to get the reservoir. The lady at the desk wigged out when I just set the reservior on the counter.

"Where the rest?" she asked me.

"in the truck its worthless as anything except a core. Its so full of crud from lack of service its absolutely not usable."

Paid the $20 for the "master" and left with the reservior.

Decided to try the stock booster for a while becasue I need the truck back on the road.

I was worried that the truck was going to have a really hard peddle. Its definitely a little more firm but not horrible. Pads and shoes are not even close to seated yet so we will see how it does once they get burnt in. If I hammer them I can get it to stop pretty good.

If its still too much peddle I'll start looking for a booster.

[ntsqd]

This is the part about brake mods that always makes me uneasy. I wish that I could say "use X calipers, Y booster, and Z m/c and all will be good." Since they are a system that is designed as such, mods have to consider the whole thing. When race type parts and OE type parts are in the mix is when things get really interesting......

[corax]

if the vehicle has ABS, it gets even better because the ABS control module is calibrated from the factory to work with the original parts. When parts are swapped, it has a definite effect (though only after the brakes lock up anyway)

There's a good article on ABS and brake upgrades here: http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_abs_bigbrakekits.shtml

[ntsqd]

FWIW my experience with ABS in the dirt has resulted in the universal advice to pull the fuse! Fortunately this vintage doesn't have that complication.

What we found when I was working at wilwood was that if you increased the front brake torque that you had to increase the rear too. Mods are reasonably possible, but you have to maintain the front to rear balance (Not Bias) within a fairly small window.

[Grim Reaper]

This is the part about brake mods that always makes me uneasy. I wish that I could say "use X calipers, Y booster, and Z m/c and all will be good." Since they are a system that is designed as such, mods have to consider the whole thing. When race type parts and OE type parts are in the mix is when things get really interesting......
Its a gamble but after looking at what I did and the cross referencing I basically put a 92 brake system on except the booster. The rear brakes spec out about the same and the master id delivering more to both ends so it seems to have stayed balanced.


As for ABS....its for people that can't drive. I HATE it.

GM ABS is the worst. I keep unplugging it on my company trucks. The 95 Van I drove for a while it twice almost got me in a accident. It was single channel system. Any wheel locks it backs off the pressure on all wheels. Once I was exiting the hwy one back wheel was on a little dirt right on the white line and it released the front brakes as I was coming to a stop when the right rear locked. Almost shot out into traffic.

I pulled into the next gas station and unplugged it.

About 6 moths later on the other side of the bridge from the first time it almost got me I had a girl blow a red light. I slammed on the brakes and honest I felt I had plenty of time to stop. All of a sudden the peddle starts it vibrating and drops to the floor and it felt like I was on ice. From 30 mph I could not stop the truck till I had completely clear the intersection. That speed I should have been able to stop in 1/3 the distance.

Seems the previous service on the truck some doo gooder mechanic noticed the ECM under the hood hanging on the side of the master unplugged and hooked it back up for me in a attempt to kill me. I went strait to the dealer and raised immortal hell! :ar15:


GM has been sued multiple times over that crappy ABS system.
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/date/19961004/news02126.html

They like to blame the wheel sensors when its really a problem that its single channel instead of each wheel being on its own channel operating independently. It comes down to single channel is a LOT cheaper to make but it gives people a false sense of security becasue under many conditions it actually makes stopping distances increase..

This is more like what I have experienced in this one.
http://scout.wisc.edu/Projects/PastProjects/NH/96-10/96-10-03/0020.html