EarthRoamer Cost?

[StumpXJ]

EDIT: I created a new thread here to continue the discussion regarding the price of an ER, and remove it from a for sale thread. SB



Dang. If only they were $150,000.00, I would buy one.

Nice trucks but geez. Thats expensive.

~James :Wow1:

[Herbie]

Yes, $150k is expensive, but remember these are classified as RV's and can be financed as such...

As of today, BOA is advertising an RV loan rate of 240mo/7.75%

Calculate that out and a payment on $150k RV would be $1231. Yea, thats a 20 year term, and the truck won't be worth 20% of its current value at that point, but you can see how people are doing this. Its basically a second mortgage on an item that has no investment value....

Spence

I think this is the same phenomena that keeps the used Sportsmobile market artificially high. People who financed these $100k Ford vans as RVs who are obligated to try to recover $60k+ if they're going to sell them so as not to be underwater...

[mhiscox]

Nice trucks but geez. Thats expensive.

It's a slow day here, so I'm gonna make an observation . . .

The perception of being "overpriced" is something the EarthRoamer company owners have fought against since Day One. I vividly remember the hour or so I spent with Bill and Michele at the Salem (OR) Fall RV show not long after XV-LT production started . . . if I'd received a nickel that day for each attendee I overheard saying to another, "Who would pay for one of these when you can have that 36-foot Bounder (parked ten feet away) for $20K less," I'd have had enough money to buy the ER. :)

I know a little about the topic, and my guess is that one could not buy the component parts in an EarthRoamer XV-LT for much less than this blow-out price, and that a year or two of normal "free" time wouldn't be enough to put everything together.

The point being, it's easy--and highly sensible--to say that no luxury overlander is worth $160K given the several dozen alternatives that will take you on an expedition for a much lower investment. However, if you look at what it involves to build an XV-LT--including the engineering, labor, overhead, chassis, suspension/wheels/tires, molded composite cabin and a truckload of marine-quality components--the normal asking price is not absurd and the price Scott cited as "aggressive" is a considerable bargain. (And if you doubt that, contact Darrin Fink or Thomas Ritter to see what they'd charge to build something similar.)

The value of everything varies in people's eyes, and quarter-million dollar overland trucks aren't conceptually different than thousand-dollar bottles of wine, $15K German Shepherds or $50K postage stamps. To some quite small number of people, it's a worthwhile thing to spend money on; to the vast majority, it's not. Makes perfect sense.

Note: As we're busily disassembling my cut-rate XV-JP, I've gotten a better idea of where the money goes than I had when I bought it. You might not share the designers' opinion of what was worth the big bucks--I certainly didn't--but you do get an idea of why the ERs might cost what they do.

[Scott Brady]

Mike,

Are you coming to the ER Rally next month in Moab?

[kjp1969]

Note: As we're busily disassembling my cut-rate XV-JP, I've gotten a better idea of where the money goes than I had when I bought it. You might not share the designers' opinion of what was worth the big bucks--I certainly didn't--but you do get an idea of why the ERs might cost what they do.

You're disassembling your XV-JP? :Wow1:

Back on topic (well, not really) I happen to own a 2004 Keystone Outback 23 foot travel trailer. It's exactly the kind of budget camper construction that most people compare to an ER, and its quite frankly a hunk of junk by comparison to a high end unit like an airstream trailer. On an Outback message board that I used to frequent, everyone liked to make fun of a factory full of Gilligan's (as in Gilligan's island) that must have assembled them. Poke around a mass produced camper and you'll see what I mean.

[adventureduo]

Mike is modifying his ER Jeep :D in a big way....

[spencyg]

The perception of being "overpriced" is something the EarthRoamer company owners have fought against since Day One. [/I]

I certainly didn't want to express a lack of appreciation for the product which ER provides. I am WELL aware of how much work goes into the complete "system" and think that they are probably under priced if you consider both the amount of labor which goes into assembly of each unit, AND the R&D which got them to where they are today. I do believe that all vehicles depreciate rapidly, and aside from a few choice Muscle cars from the early 70's, nobody makes their money back when it is time to part ways. Taking a dig on a $30k truck is one thing, trying to make back a loss of $50k on a $160k rig is another thing entirely. This depreciation is no fault of ER, and frankly I'm sure one of their rigs holds value much better than an equivalent Class A Coach, but still....losing money is losing money. This was my only point.

If I won the megabucks, I'd certainly own one, regardless of resale value!

Spence

[andyrad]

Mike, I'm on your side on this one. If you do the math, considering you had a 20K down payment and financed the balance at 7% for 20 years, you would end up paying $280,500.44 in total. No tax though. Considering that a comparable $250,000 luxury motor home would get hung up on a big speed bump and begin to fall to pieces after 500 miles of backroads, if you dared take it there, the Earthroamers are a worthwhile buy. Just don't finance the thing or you're a freakin idiot. That same statement goes for the 250K luxury motor home.

It all boils down to what type of travel you want to do and what level of durability you want or need. The key to a mega bucks expedition vehicle is to have the cash in hand to do it, which a lot of us don't and just wish we did, myself being one of them. If I was looking for a great expedition ready rig and had the cash I would probably look at your product. One would pay dearly for a used 'Mog that was built up so here you have brand new.

[craig333]

I don't think anyone said they are overpriced. Just expensive.
I might have been able to sell my house for that, once upon a time /sigh

[mhiscox]

Mike is modifying his ER Jeep :D in a big way....
There's more to it, but the short story is that the giant XV-JP roof tent wasn't a workable idea in Oregon where, for most of the year, there was no way to ever get the thing to dry out. My XV-JP is being "remodeled" in a way that doesn't have the tent.

They'll be more information forthcoming once the new systems work and I'm sure I haven't toasted a perfectly functional, really expensive vehicle.

Scott . . . I've got a schedule conflict that precludes the ER Rally . . . not to mention an EarthRoamer too destroyed (temporarily, one hopes) to be seen in public. :)

[haven]

Here's the inspiration for Mike's XV-JP tent replacement:

http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/transportation/images/Aviation%20Page/pc-guppy.JPG

:victory:

[mhiscox]

Here's the inspiration for Mike's XV-JP tent replacement:

http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/transportation/images/Aviation%20Page/pc-guppy.JPG

:victory:
Geez, Chip; it was supposed to be a secret. :( Guess I'll move on to Plan B . . .

http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp283/mhiscox01/futuro.jpg.

[StumpXJ]

I figure my statement would ruffle the feathers of some, but I kept it civil in my opinion. Bottom line line is, you cant argue with someone's perception.

The trucks are expensive. I don't know if they are 'overpriced' or not, and frankly have no reason to care since I wont be affording one any time soon. If your idea of an expedition vehicle is a $160,000.00 Earth Roamer, that's awesome. Its just not my thing, that's all. That might be different if I could afford it, or maybe not.

Good luck to the sellers, and prospective buyers.

~James

[charlieaarons]

I thought this was the "for sale" department, not the "let's dump on expensive vehicles" department. I'm really tired of constantly reading discussions regarding the high price of upper-tier expo vehicles and the poor judgement of people who would spend so much to buy them.
Perhaps discussions of this sort should not be in the For Sale department, it's really thread hijacking of the highest order.

Charlie

[sami]

^ Get over it... It is what it is.

[Scott Brady]

Charlie. You know why they do it. . .

To poo-poo someone's expensive toy just validates their own financial condition and circumstances. It makes them feel better.

However, my personal favorite is the "More money than sense" statement, of course made by the brilliant person working as a Walmart greeter. You know, all those self-made millionaires buying $250,000 toys with the fruits of their immense success are just bafoons with no common sense, and the Walmart guy is really so much smarter, but has been kept down by "The Man".

People are passionate about their vehicles and often unwilling to accept that others might like something different, or be able to afford or willing to buy something so expensive. To each his own.

[Momrocks]

However, my personal favorite is the "More money than sense" statement, of course made by the brilliant person working as a Walmart greeter. You know, all those self-made millionaires buying $250,000 toys with the fruits of their immense success are just bafoons with no common sense, and the Walmart guy is really so much smarter, but has been kept down by "The Man".



Wow, I guess I didn't read those posts closely enough. I seem to have missed all that. :ylsmoke:

[Scott Brady]

That was not in the posts in this thread, but the hundred others on the net about expensive vehicles of any type.

I just find the irony of that statement humorous, and much more descriptive of the person saying it that the individual it is directed towards. . .:ylsmoke:

[Momrocks]

It just seems that generalizing, using Wal-Mart greeter and financial status isn’t any better than a poster generalizing about EarthRoamer owners inheriting their wealth. Both are demeaning and neither is probably true in all cases.


disclaimer: I am neither a Wal-mart greeter nor trust fund baby and neither were harmed in the making of this post

-

[Scott Brady]

You are right. Walmart greeter was an unfair generalization. I think you understand my comment though.

[Momrocks]

I think you understand my comment though.

I think I do.

[Aggie]

You are right. Walmart greeter was an unfair generalization. I think you understand my comment though.

Duh everyone knows Walmart Greeter's are senior citizens. You got something against OLD PEOPLE NOW TOO?!?!?














LOL!

[spencyg]

Charlie. You know why they do it. . .

To poo-poo someone's expensive toy just validates their own financial condition and circumstances. It makes them feel better.

However, my personal favorite is the "More money than sense" statement, of course made by the brilliant person working as a Walmart greeter. You know, all those self-made millionaires buying $250,000 toys with the fruits of their immense success are just bafoons with no common sense, and the Walmart guy is really so much smarter, but has been kept down by "The Man".

People are passionate about their vehicles and often unwilling to accept that others might like something different, or be able to afford or willing to buy something so expensive. To each his own.

Holy Degrading and Insulting Post Batman!

Just because there are some that disagree with the expendatures of the "well endowed" doesn't make that person of unfortunate financial means, a low income worker, or otherwise. I'm not really sure I understand what you're trying to say here, but the way I read it is "Everybody wants to have a big toy but most of them are just too stupid and poor to ever get one...".

Wrong.

[Scott Brady]

I read it is "Everybody wants to have a big toy but most of them are just too stupid and poor to ever get one...".


Exactly the opposite. My comments were about the degrading remarks coming the other way. . . Read it again.

[Scott Brady]

I am pulling a bunch of posts out of a for sale listing and here for further discussion if required.

[Aggie]

Am I the only one that will come out and say the EarthRoamers are overpriced for what you get? Of course I have never seen one in person but it just seems everyone keeps walking around the subject saying "Boy they are expensive and I wouldn't buy one, but I also don't have the money..."

The Market decides the price of something, always has, and outside of the prices set by EarthRoamer the Market tends to lean more towards a 1-ton Truck and a Lance Truck Camper to fullfill the same role that MOST people use a truck and camper for (maybe not us wheeling expo folks, but most people out there) and the price of a new truck and truck camper is significantly less than a new EarthRoamer. So my question is where does EarthRoamer get their pricing? What is their Mark Up? How much Profit are they making? 50%? 100%? 200%? What is fair in the RV Market?

Just food for thought, thanks for the new thread Scott!

[kjp1969]

Holy hell, we're not going down this road again, are we?

Of course they're expensive. So are Rolexes, Ferraris, Chateau Neuf de Pap, Cuban cigars, iphones, boob jobs, Mac tools, Parker shotguns, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Pick your poison and your budget and shaddup already!!! I want a new rule: Only people who have actually seen/worn/driven/groped/drank/used/fired/smoked an ER/Rolex/Ferrari/Chateau Neuf de Pap/Cuban cigar/iphone/boob job/Mac tool/ Parker shotgun gets to criticise them. Everyone else can keep your ill-informed, speculative, non-opinion to yourself.

[T.Low]

:lurk:


If I was in that wealth bracket, I'd take a serious look at the ER Jeep. Hell yeah.


And...well,...we all know both sides of this arguement pretty well already...it's too easy to critique how others spend thier money, and we've all done it. And we've all at one time or another been the little guy doing more with less, and the big guy doing less with more. While I hate those snide comments too, I caught myself chuckling at a pic on another thread of a 6x6 Pinz camping on an asphalt slab site. But we don't know the other guy's situation or context. If you were worth $21m, like a guy I ride dirt bikes with, then would you consider it to be expensive? You may not see any significant difference between the price tags of a $25k Rubicon and the $160k ER, only that the ER works for you and the Ruby doesn't.

Live and let live.

[Aggie]

Holy hell, we're not going down this road again, are we?

Of course they're expensive. So are Rolexes, Ferraris, Chateau Neuf de Pap, Cuban cigars, iphones, boob jobs, Mac tools, Parker shotguns, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Pick your poison and your budget and shaddup already!!! I want a new rule: Only people who have actually seen/worn/driven/groped/drank/used/fired/smoked an ER/Rolex/Ferrari/Chateau Neuf de Pap/Cuban cigar/iphone/boob job/Mac tool/ Parker shotgun gets to criticise them. Everyone else can keep your ill-informed, speculative, non-opinion to yourself.

Wow, how bout this, I give you a little insight about my line of work and then you can criticize all you want. I evaluate what things are worth. For Insurance Companies. For a Living.

If I am going to buy something I look at its resale value and what it will be worth when my patience/attention is through with it. Let me go ahead and point out the flaws in your argument...

I have a Rolex on my wrist at this very moment. A special one at that, a 50th Edition Rolex Submariner. Green Bezel with a Black Face. A watch that you don't see everyday, and good money was paid for it. And I guarantee you to replace this watch today on the USED market, it would cost $2500 more than when I bought it. I will tell you right now that my Luminox keeps better time but that is not why I have the Rolex now is it? Appreciation in an INVESTMENT is in no way comparable to a vehicle that will DEPRECIATE and the fact that you felt it necessary to bring it up in this thread just goes to show your very ignorance in the manor of things that are slightly more expensive. Also while you are at it leave out Fine Wines that have been kept at the right temperature and out of sunlight, Cuban Cigars in a Humidor (There is an embargo for Christ's Sake you can't get them!) and Certain Classic Guitars and Cars. They are investments that payoff because of their Rarity.

Now Unfortunately while EarthRoamers may not be abundant the Used Market has shown their REAL value. They just don't hold it. Their values drop like a rock. Why do people buy them and then try to get out from underneath them here on the Portal? Impulse buy of the worst kind is all I can figure.

As far as your Snap On/Mac/Matco Tools argument, well those tools never depreciate but they also don't appreciate so argument is again, false.

As far as the Boob Job goes, Well I can't purchase used boobs so I have to agree with you, no clue if it is worth while. :victory:

[Scott Brady]

(There is an embargo for Christ's Sake you can't get them!)

Not true ;) You just cannot sell them. . . Nothing illegal about having one in your humidor.

[Scott Brady]

Now Unfortunately while EarthRoamers may not be abundant the Used Market has shown their REAL value. They just don't hold it. Their values drop like a rock. Why do people buy them and then try to get out from underneath them here on the Portal? Impulse buy of the worst kind is all I can figure.


This is also not correct, at least not historically. EarthRoamers have historically held their value quite well, primarily because of rarity and an increasing MSRP (i.e., the prices continued to rise, propping up older ones with it). In today's economy, many luxury goods are on a fire sale. Great time to buy, your Rolex excluded (nice watch, the dateless sub is my favorite Rolex, and though I have not spent my money on expensive watches, I can appreciate why someone would)

The two ERs on this site are being sold by a leasing company.

[kjp1969]

If I am going to buy something I look at its resale value and what it will be worth when my patience/attention is through with it. Let me go ahead and point out the flaws in your argument...


Edit to remove my brilliant, point by point rebuttal of your argument. It was epic, trust me.

Reason for editing: I'm just being a jerk today. Sorry about that. I blame sleep deprivation and overwork. I could edit my last post, but I'll leave it up as evidence of my crankyness, and as a reminder to myself not to be a jerk any more.

My only valid point is this: You have never seen an Earthroamer, so when you say that its not worth the sale price, you're guessing a little bit. Is that reasonable?

[StumpXJ]

LoL... I love a good thread to get the juices going. I have to go to work now, you know Walmart never closes!

That was an epic post Scott... :Wow1:

~James

[T.Low]

Wow, how bout this, I give you a little insight about my line of work and then you can criticize all you want. I evaluate what things are worth. For Insurance Companies. For a Living.

If I am going to buy something I look at its resale value and what it will be worth when my patience/attention is through with it. Let me go ahead and point out the flaws in your argument...

I have a Rolex on my wrist at this very moment. A special one at that, a 50th Edition Rolex Submariner. Green Bezel with a Black Face. A watch that you don't see everyday, and good money was paid for it. And I guarantee you to replace this watch today on the USED market, it would cost $2500 more than when I bought it. I will tell you right now that my Luminox keeps better time but that is not why I have the Rolex now is it? Appreciation in an INVESTMENT is in no way comparable to a vehicle that will DEPRECIATE and the fact that you felt it necessary to bring it up in this thread just goes to show your very ignorance in the manor of things that are slightly more expensive. Also while you are at it leave out Fine Wines that have been kept at the right temperature and out of sunlight, Cuban Cigars in a Humidor (There is an embargo for Christ's Sake you can't get them!) and Certain Classic Guitars and Cars. They are investments that payoff because of their Rarity.

Now Unfortunately while EarthRoamers may not be abundant the Used Market has shown their REAL value. They just don't hold it. Their values drop like a rock. Why do people buy them and then try to get out from underneath them here on the Portal? Impulse buy of the worst kind is all I can figure.

As far as your Snap On/Mac/Matco Tools argument, well those tools never depreciate but they also don't appreciate so argument is again, false.

As far as the Boob Job goes, Well I can't purchase used boobs so I have to agree with you, no clue if it is worth while. :victory:



I just got rearended in my '06 F-150. I got two body shop quotes. Lady who sits at a desk somewhere on the other end of the phone line working for the insurance company tells me that both qoutes are too high, so she will send me a check for the "proper" amount...quite a bit less than either quote.

I ask her what am I to do when I bring that lite check to the body shop and it doesn't cover the cost that we already knew was going to be higher?

After a few seconds of silence I get the big "This is what I do all day, I know what i'm doing" from the lady sitting at the desk.

"OK, who's left holding the bag when the body shop guy tells me "hey, I gave you a quote telling you how much it was going to cost, why did you bring such a small check? Why do you listen to lady sitting at the desk? Maybe you should let her fix your truck."

Dude, I wouldn't be bragging about working for an insurance company, and making so much money by ripping off guys like me all day long that you can buy a Rolex, then rippin on Earth roamer's for costing so much.

[Aggie]

Dude, I wouldn't be bragging about working for an insurance company, and making so much money by ripping off guys like me all day long that you can buy a Rolex, then rippin on Earth roamer's for costing so much.

Our company is an Independent Evaluation company of Personal Property. I am sorry you had a bad experience with your insurance company. Maybe next time you should seek legal counsel with your problems instead of trying to prove me wrong. Adjusters are just doing their job, but some of them can be a little uppity. You should research what your rights are... :)

[spencyg]

You should research what your rights are... :)

Yeah...like the right to be dropped from your insurance after raising too many questions...:sombrero:

[Cody1771]

I agree whith what Aggie has stated. she put it in a way that is easy to understand and that makes sence. in my opinion the earthroamers are not overpriced, and worth the price tag if being used what they where intended for. but all to often these days what you see is that Joe Shmoe has taken is 89 Jeep charokee and had some 4x4 shop do $30k in upgrades like 4 link suspension ect. then found out the truck isnt as cool as he'd like, then trys to flip the thing for $35k trying to make his money back. when in reality he might be lucky to get 10k for the rig. i have seen this personaly. i dont feel this is the issue with the earthroamers though. if i had 150k to drop on a rig i would definatly consider one of these. but i dont. and never will. but i still dont considered them overprice, just as i dont consider a 1968 Shelby GT500 going on ebay for 200g+ over priced. as long as its not a knock off ;)

[Aggie]

Yeah...like the right to be dropped from your insurance after raising too many questions...:sombrero:

Guilty! I took my beat up FJ Cruiser into the shop and filed a claim and had it fixed before they could get an adjuster out to look at the vehicle. About $6,000 worht of body work accumulated from 2 years of Off Roading it hard. About 3 months later I got a letter from State Farm saying that since I was using my vehicles for Off Road use they would be electing NOT to renew my insurance in 2 months. Oh well I shopped around and found better prices with Travelers. :wings:


I agree whith what Aggie has stated. she put it in a way that is easy to understand and that makes sence. in my opinion the earthroamers are not overpriced, and worth the price tag if being used what they where intended for. but all to often these days what you see is that Joe Shmoe has taken is 89 Jeep charokee and had some 4x4 shop do $30k in upgrades like 4 link suspension ect. then found out the truck isnt as cool as he'd like, then trys to flip the thing for $35k trying to make his money back. when in reality he might be lucky to get 10k for the rig. i have seen this personaly. i dont feel this is the issue with the earthroamers though. if i had 150k to drop on a rig i would definatly consider one of these. but i dont. and never will. but i still dont considered them overprice, just as i dont consider a 1968 Shelby GT500 going on ebay for 200g+ over priced. as long as its not a knock off ;)

SHE? SHE??? Those crazy Canucks have no clue what an Aggie is. :costumed-smiley-007